 Or is it What is this North Carolina? Hi, we're live That's messed up All right, so hey everybody watching the live stream. We are live Hey Behind the scenes With their lives, but we're live and you're live and I'm alive Can they hear me They should be able to hear you. Yeah, okay. I think I heard myself in the background. So Pretty sure you can hear me. Yep Chat room not if you can hear me Yes, if you have any audio issues or you can't well, you should be able to see us cuz hangouts If you have any audio issues, let us know Yes, you should be able to just keep to yourself. I don't want to hear you. I don't want to hear it I want to hear you all day figuring out. Oh lots of nods people are nodding. Okay Good We have the power noddy. Oh, I left my colic. We logged in at home. I'm like, why am I ace detect here, which is my You need to get yourself a bouncer. Yeah, I need to bounce myself Mm-hmm, you can next serve a ghost yourself. Yeah, I've done that before By the way, this audio sounds really great. Oh Sounds it sounds terrific I Just cleaned it Darren helped me set up all the audio and video stuff because I don't have all that memorized Yeah, Django Django did. Oh our wrangles and our um our intern was gonna be here. Just called out bummer Is she gonna start for the first time ever? Yeah, cool. Yeah, she just graduated on Tuesday. Oh Eighth grade graduation. We're gonna bust some hacker misconceptions with that guy Darren kitchen Shannon on DTNS daily tech news show dot gobb Was that a snapchat it was My snapchat voice on Second before it ends. Yeah, it's gonna cut off last second anyway Snapchats man. Do you understand them? I don't I just don't know about kids at the snapchats kids in their snapchats I'm still under. I'm still kind of not understanding snapchat. I Think you do a fine job with it Yeah, I just put everything in my story Yeah, that's what I do. Yep. I occasionally snap someone directly. I snapped Joe directly earlier this week. Hmm I feel it's a little bit different because you don't want to snap someone who doesn't want your snaps So I never right now. You don't want to blast a bunch of people. I took a snap for Justin and Put it on my story accidentally. Oh Oh, but it was just about playing pinball. That's snap danger. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I saw that one I thought it was meant to be like. Oh, hey everybody Justin In front of the crowd kind of thing. It's don't totally work. I didn't even think that was an accident. Yeah, that's funny Justin Justin Justin They were 17 I mean Roger he's got control good everything's good I started but Did you get both of these? Yeah, they're in there. Yeah, that's true too. Okay, great. Pulling the string. I may just be like, no, I can't I can't handle the convenience If at any point it rings just just tell them to call back It's using our payphone Quit using our payphone man. Hey, it's free. It's free. No, it's collect. Oh, I just switched. No, no, that was me Okay, yep, I definitely felt my I saw a really funny meme that reminded me of being back in like middle school and it was If you ever had that moment when you go to the movies and you pick up a payphone and say and it says like You have a collect call from and then you say mom pick me up from the movies Oh, I used to get a guy request songs on the radio that way. No, it was like you have a collect call from Aerosmith Ocean Person on the collect call thing was like you have to tell him whether or not you want to pay for it And I was like, I'm just I'm 12. I don't know I Have 10 cents I was scared I was gonna get in trouble. I was like, I don't know what to do In Australia, I had to call my bank because I'm like, oh, right. I should probably tell them right So I called the number on the card and the phone number answers If this is a collect call we accept the charges. Oh, I was like, what that's crazy Yeah, who's calling their bank collect good customer service. Yeah Like, all right It's which bank is that, you know was fun is you know the SIT tones The number you have dialed we're sorry the reason why those tones exist was to tell the Operator on the other end if you're dialing long distance So if like I'm in Bell Atlantic territory here and you're in Pacific belt or in so I'm calling you Those tones tell Bell Atlantic that hey, don't charge him for this call because he dialed the wrong number And that would be a real pain to get a long right charge for a wrong number which by the way Which just means charging all distance was often just as silly as charging for bandwidth use Which is just as silly as charging for a text. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so So anyway, the point is all you do is you answer the phone And then you wouldn't get yeah, and you just saved you well tips for you people time traveling to the 1990s. Yeah Hey, check it out. Look Tom. Oh, wow, where'd you get that? I don't know Yeah, I have no clue where I got it I think I got one from Sebastian We have these for the set for next week's show Yeah, I know that envelope. I've seen that 2014 yeah Jesus yeah end of 2013. Oh, is that where they came from? Oh No, who gave me one. I call it the mm now stands for Meg Merritt This is my sister's name before she got married Now So again if your time traveling before my sister got married Yeah, I don't know her name. I know her initials. Hey chance serve Just shout out to the chat room. Hmm. Hey, I see chance sir and Nick serve showbot and What's up guys That dates you Tom, that's a romper room romper room. Thank you. Yeah, that dates me and I know what the hell you're talking about The data has been dated Never been cleaner. I'm really excited about no, it's so that's why we brought Django into stinking up We drove up We drove to San Jose yesterday. Oh, wow For father's day brought both the dogs and then I drove up with Django. Well, Django did mostly driving from San Jose She's a good driver. She's excellent Yeah Because Eileen's sister is going to a wedding which meant Eileen's dad would have been alone on father's day It's Sunday. Oh, it's Sunday. Okay. Where's the tweet to retweet? Can't find it. I don't know the link. Oh ace detects. Oh Diamond club dot TV, right? Just use the search button. Oh, I don't know what you're asking Does it work that way Tom I'm looking for the tweet that you made Yeah, I may want you haven't made one. I did it 115. It should have gone out No, 14 minutes ago was the last thing I saw and it was Yeah, it would have been about 14 minutes ago. Oh Yes, you're not reading you need to read it Darren. Well, I was expecting a video to be embedded. Oh, yeah Okay. Hey. All right, you guys ready? Yes chickens See if this works My fellow citizens of the internet there is nothing to fear but fear itself So go show fear you mean business go to daily tech news show comm slash support and show them you're not interested in fear You're interested in the future This is the Daily Tech news for Friday June 17 2016. I'm Tom Merritt in the hack five warehouse itself It's it's fantastic you guys like have an amazing system here, I feel a little overwhelmed Right, it's like little days and Mike's right. Yeah, and my logo up Yeah, I did that thing that we're missing is some chairs to do the the obligatory Standing desks You just get standing dead dance, which is fine. Yeah, that's what we'll have to so stay tuned for the end of the show for standing Dance, so we have an audience Dog in the audience It wouldn't be a Friday without Len Peralta is there on the hangout Illustrating the show from Cleveland. Yes, it's a happy Cleveland these days, isn't it? It is right now, but still tentative very tentative So let's without further ado get right into the headlines The Beijing intellectual property bureau ordered Apple to stop sales of the iPhone 6 and 6s Ruling that the iPhone models infringed on an exterior design patent held by Shenzhen Bali for its 100 C smartphone Chinese law will allow Apple to appeal the ruling to a higher court. Wall Street Journal reported several mobile phone stores in the city I already stopped selling the iPhone 6 because we're not talking about the s the 6s or the 6s plus We're talking about the 6 and the 6 plus and a bunch of them stopped selling it a few months ago, so Exterior design not interior design Yeah, so funny China respecting intellectual property law which a lot of people don't think they do no no they care Yeah, I really do. I mean I feel like maybe they noticed that it has let's see a big screen Yeah, that's a charging port. Yes, rounded edges. That's good. Yeah, I have one right had phone jack Yeah, I have phone jacks are good. Maybe like a power button and volume rockers Yeah, unlike all those other phones You know, I feel like if if I don't know the merits of the case very well But if in fact this company had put their trademark or trade dress Registered before Apple got into the Chinese market. They could have a case. Yeah, it'd only be fair It doesn't matter how it's exactly what Apple went after Samsung's for right right right, but like unlike, you know Software stuff where it's easy to just like oh, you know change few lines code recompile This is well, it's dirty. So what are they gonna do at bottom? You know what is it means? We'll get a Chinese bumper They'll just put a bumper on it and call it a day Right, right the Google Play Store started rolling out today to aces Chromebook flip users Just them and you still have to have the developer channel of Chrome OS installed that allows Chrome OS to run native Android apps though Google's Francois Buford says more devices will follow very soon Verge reports acer Chromebook R 11 C7 30 80 and the 2015 Chromebook pixel are expected to get the update later this month So we heard about this at Google I owe this is exciting and yeah, this is pretty cool You're gonna be able to run Android apps natively right like like not emulated not virtualized And it become mixed Chrome OS that much more useful I now see why you got it so excited about this because that is really cool Do you use Chrome OS right now? So I don't but I have in the blood I have in the past and I have very frequently Recommended it to people who are like hey, I want something like secure like you know quote-unquote secure Yeah, you know no you're locked down. Yeah. Yeah, like you know you can do the same You know obviously if you want to put the work into it a windows box can be secure a Linux box Can obviously be secure of you putting your work into it But otherwise if you want some company to take care of you It's like well get a Mac or get a Chromebook and the difference in price there is vast So a lot of times the pushback when I get you know when I recommend that as advice Get people saying like that's really cool. I'd love to but I don't want to live only in the cloud And I need apps and stuff like that so apps coming to that ecosystem is huge But more and more since I started using the surface it's got me thinking like wow This is a fantastic tablet except windows is such a clunky user experience So now I'm running Android in a VM to make this right you know a good experience, but it's like Cross-platform everything, you know, I know that everybody wants to be the platform But I think in a long enough timeline like the whole idea of like oh I got to wreck my app for this OS and that OS and this so I think that's gonna go away eventually well and with the Snaps not snapchat, but the snaps that Ubuntu. Yes has made available through encouraging the community It's not something canonical owns you have way more possibilities for cross-platform in the Linux ecosystem in general I wouldn't love to see snaps come to Chrome OS. There's no reason it couldn't there is Yes, exactly because it's Unix under the hood and as we see more and more of Microsoft embracing Linux and bash coming to Windows. I mean, I don't know Windows you could see it in Chrome OS. Yeah, you could see it in OS 10. There's a horizon. Yeah, they won't do it in OS 10 But you could Here's another cool Experimental feature from Mozilla Mozilla by the way rolling out a snap version of Firefox They're rolling out a new experimental feature for themselves called container tabs in its nightly build of Firefox yesterday Container tabs let you select between four predetermined identities work home banking and shopping and each of those keeps its own distinct cookies caches and storage So you can remain logged into multiple accounts in the same browser, but they won't affect each other You won't have your bank cookie in with the rest of your browsing in those questionable sites Each container must be manually assigned to each tab But Mozilla hopes to make this contextual in future builds in their blog post for the nightly build Mozilla reminds users that they can still Be fingerprinted across containers IP address your OS user agents are not altered. It's still the browser So it's not a privacy mode necessarily, but it is Allowing you to keep some stuff, you know, like I use privacy badger Oh, yeah, and sometimes I wish I had a tab that's like here's where I want to read News stories from sites that don't work well with privacy badger. That'd be kind of cool I absolutely love this and mine is specifically because often times I find myself needing to log in to Multiple Gmail accounts in separate tabs and it gets really confusing if you're trying to do that on just one machine Or you might have to use separate machines if it's enough accounts So I love the fact that I would be able to do this all in one browser as opposed to having separate browsers for everything Chrome has had for a while now the ability to have multiple users so you can have yeah And it's cute you get the little cupcake or the awesome guy and things like that So, you know props to them What I find funny here is that we're talking about firefox having this ability firefox the browser that you still have Because it's how you've been juggling multiple accounts, right? Exactly. My firefox is my corn killers account Literally like that. I have a browser for every account. Yeah, it's like Mozilla like realizing like a lot of people keep us around Or have let's make it. Yeah. All right, and this would be simultaneously, right? Yeah within the same Browser instance, I suppose. You might have to flip the firefox. Look at you. I know. You heard it here first. Big news! All right, Sony is demonstrating the PlayStation VR headset at 30 select Best Buy and GameStop locations in advance of its autumn release Sony says the demos will be available eventually in 300 stores starting June 24th However, it will only be available for a few hours each day and not every day at every location The PlayStation VR is available for pre-order. It has been for months now But they just announced the shipping date earlier this week for October 13th, you know I've seen the PlayStation VR at multiple locations now. I saw it in Japan. I saw it at CES I've seen it so many times, but every time I do there's either a really long line or I'm just like I don't know. I'll try it eventually. So I just don't do it I feel like now is the time that I should actually start. Yeah. Gaining interest in actually doing it or GameStop Yeah, GameSpot. Yeah, well you could they might let you in The thing that I'm finding most interesting about just VR in general and the way that it's coming to consumers is that it has been Just experimental and open from the start, you know Everything from like the initial like like like cardboard is a perfect example of that or the original Oculus dev kits and as dev kits more so than consumer products This is a really interesting industry being born out of like proof of concept stuff being marketed towards people I mean we're in that like early like weird Google glass kind of what is this phase and it's being sold to people as that. Yeah And I like the idea of the console VR that allows me to try it in a different setting. So HTC Vive Oculus Rift, they're tied to my PC Which for me is a downstairs machine where I can have room for the Vive first of all But the PlayStations upstairs on the regular TV. So now I could have a VR experience there. Yeah Our second is John Bradkin reports on Amon, Idaho's municipal open access network This is really interesting multiple ISPs can now offer service to customers over the city owned fiber and Residents can sign up and switch ISPs almost instantly just by visiting a city operated website They don't need to change their equipment. In fact, the network gives you a gateway the gateway has four ports You even have regular people have the ability to assign a different ISP to each port if they want So you could have one for your work office coming off a one port and then have one for the kids That's maybe a slower bandwidth or something like that a pilot program of 12 homes just finished So isn't widespread yet But construction is beginning for 200 more homes and eventually they want to hook up all 4,500 small town All businesses have already been hooked up though and they did it without raising taxes Wow basically quest was gonna charge them thousands of dollars to run fiber into the city government Yeah, and they looked at it and they're like well wait a minute We could pay a little bit more like 24,000 instead of 8,000 But in three years we'll make money instead of continuing to pay quest, right? And that's what's happening. That's awesome I love this. This is really interesting because It's akin to say all of the DSL operators that may be using mob bell copper at the end of the day So similar in that regards, but what I what I'm trying to figure out here is I love that They're like, okay, let's open it up and then anybody that wants to offer service over this medium Can however if that's the case if they're all a shared line well Then how are they gonna compete because you can't really compete on price if you're all using the same infrastructure as easily and You would think then okay cool. They'll compete on service, but at least me as a consumer I don't that's the last thing I want Any ISP to compete on is like are you gonna access to our awesome use net servers like what like move my bits Yeah, well, but to me that's what it competes on that whereas if one company says well We're gonna start putting men with caps you just go to that website like great. Let me find the company that does it Okay, don't get me wrong. I love that there is potential for competition there They're just like what boggles my mind is okay. How are they gonna compete? Yeah? Yeah, well They're gonna compete by fooling people Like well bundle telephone service. Yeah, I mean, you know speed speed and price, right? And and whether there's like they're not yeah, you know what I here's it here's a scenario I think could happen one ISP says we're gonna only charge you five dollars a month for Gigabit service okay because it's fiber But you have a bandwidth cap of ten megabytes and if you go over it you pay a little more and and then another Services like screw that we're gonna charge you twenty dollars a month, but there's no bandwidth cap And so people will say you know what I don't really use that much internet I'm gonna go for the five dollar a month because it's cheaper and that ISP is able to charge that lower amount because they're gonna make It up when people go over. Yeah All right So maybe it's actually the perfect scenario because you have like everybody on an equal playing field as far as the infrastructure is concerned So I'd love to see how this shakes up because it's like a little tiny bubble of 4,500 really Well, maybe somebody from Sweden can can write in because apparently that's they've been doing it this way three years already I don't know working in Sweden. You think it's gonna work here. Yeah, nothing like that. It's crazy. I do love their fish Google announced it is bumping up the payouts to its Android vulnerability rewards program after June 1st Vulnerability reports with proof of concept will pay out 33% more a report with proof of concept CTS test or patch gets you 50% more the reward for a remote or proximal kernel exploit is now $30,000 up from 20,000 bucks a remote exploit chain or exploits the compromise a trust zone or verified boot now 50,000 bucks up from 30,000 bucks Interested parties can check out the Android security reward program rules for full details for those who didn't understand the words there You do understand the 20,000 is now 30,000. It's basically bug bounty like hey find better vulnerabilities We're gonna pay you more. Well, that's the thing is you you have this tennis match going between You know the bad guys and the good guys and this is happening online forever with security and privacy and you know with hacking in general, so it's really important for Companies to notice and recognize the fact that they need to pay out for these and they need to pay out a lot of money to get hackers more motivated to Actually help them as opposed to just finding these vulnerabilities and selling them to the highest bidder I was about to say because they got to compete in the free market And when you could potentially I mean a million dollars for that iPhone unlock to the FBI, right? You know like you got to up your game or that like ancient LinkedIn password dump. Yeah, that was you know That's a totally separate issue. Yes. It is like somebody was like, hey, I get some money for this for somebody Well, there's funny. They should mention that There's there's an awesome talk by Troy hunt that I just saw Ossert talking about just this exact thing where he dives into the industry of it and the buying and selling of it And as it turns out what happens is immediately when there's a leak the price is really high because very few people have it But as it kind of disseminates through the underground the IRC's and chat, you know, there's no CRM on it Exactly. So all takes is one person to just go ahead and make it public and then just it yeah, it plummets plummets Yeah, which it's like so if you want to make yourself less What vulnerable or valuable just put your stuff out there and just make sure it's like a really good crypto. Yeah And then your password is it worth much? Yeah, like oh Yeah, but it was there. Yes, right everybody just leak your own stuff using B. Crypt pre-leaked pre-creeped passwords Yeah, I think 96 that's like small batch artisan leaks. Oh, I like that. We should start crafting this It makes a lot more sense for companies to actually do this for hackers It makes a lot more sense to actually be secure and to have people on your side as opposed to having people fighting you constantly Google's been up the forefront of this and kind of change the whole concept of the industry because I say industry because hacking is now an industry Yeah, they weren't the first to do bug bounties. No, they were the Finally courts reports that it is now possible to buy vegetables grown indoor in New Jersey for the same price as those grown Outdoors in California thanks to the falling price of LEDs This is real. I love this story. I don't know why and maybe it's cuz I get to say arugula on a tech show Arrow Farms is shipping arugula kale and spinach grown inside a Newark, New Jersey nightclub a Five ounce box cost of three dollars and ninety-nine cents Which is the same price as a box of greens from earthbound in California grown out in the fields here The Department of Energy says the price of LEDs has fallen 90 percent since 2010 and should keep falling in the years to come LED efficiency and lifetime have nearly doubled as well. That's going to continue to go up Yeah, yeah, are we sure that they're growing like kale in a nightclub? Well, they are Growing kale in a night Well, you know what's gonna happen is it's going to change the questions that you have to ask now when you are Getting that kale salad important. Which is is this was this made with pre-range and fair trade LEDs? Yeah, yeah Recycled LEDs exactly. Could I visit the nightclub? No, but it also like I love the story because we we often miss with like LEDs I remember buzz out on days. We would complain about like oh LEDs are too costly and they're banning you from buying these other these these other Lightbulbs now and it's not only that the prices have come so low that what you would not not want to buy an LED But it's also making all of these other things that you wouldn't have anticipated would come come to pass I'm realizing the most important part of the story, you know The LED is very efficient with the electricity that they're given the electricity How is this harnessed if it was used with solar then that means that we are Harnessing the power of the Sun with monocrystalline cells storing it in a battery bank and then transmitting With LEDs to grow crops think about using the power of the sun crops Yes This could be a thing. I doubt it. I think we're on to something people Hey, thanks to all those who participate in our subreddit There's a place to go and submit stories and vote on them And it's a great place to just catch up on some interesting stuff, too There's always cool things being submitted in there go check it out daily tech news show Reddit comm let's see who was in there today that we can throw out a thanks to actually got TM 204 Put the court story about the LEDs in there, and it was one of the top vote-getters So that's one of the reasons we did it also Loki Roberts in there today Motang PC guy 88 Racken Rico is in there. That's kind of a newer name So thanks to everybody who supports us there and that's a look Oh Man, all right, so for our main discussion today I asked Aaron about talking about hacker misconceptions how people they fear the wrong things they I mean for years we've been trying to fight a losing battle of like a hacker is not a bad guy a cracker Maybe a bad guy, but a hacker could be a bad guy or a good guy I think we may have lost that battle unfortunately. We lost that a while ago I'm not saying cracker but in that context there is still good hacking and bad hacking and and Misconceptions about what hacking is and I figure who better to talk about it than the host of hack 5 So you broke down some misconceptions that we also have examples from hacker movies to help us understand them Exactly, and this is like homework. It's like reading material. It's like, you know, when you're done with this podcast You know go ahead and and we're giving you homework get these movies on the Netflix Yeah, exactly, so it'll be fun, and then you'll understand your fellow hacker better because Hackers are like oh wizards kind of like witches, right? And you know if they float then you burn them, right? So I find it difficult many times when I'm explaining to people. I'm like, oh people like oh, what are you doing? Like well, I'm a hacker and it's like oh wait, so just to just hacking me right now I get I get a different perception whenever I say like oh, yeah I'm a hacker kind of and they're just like you're not a hacker Right, that's that's for a different can you watch my laptop for me? That right So so that like I would say that the the three biggest misconceptions about hacker and agriculture would be The difficulty of hacking and like what's what's capable? What's not the intent of hackers and then of course the apparel Let's start with the difficulty. All right, so as far as difficulty, there's no magic hack button. It just doesn't exist That's not how we do this and more over security research takes months and months to You know to just up digging and experimenting and basically To develop a proof of concept of an exploit against the vulnerability may take months and months and unless you're you know, it's It's a lot of hard work is all I'm trying to say and as far as like what people's main thought are like Oh, you're hack my account. It's like no unless you're like have a secret question That's what your birthday is or where you went to high school Sarah Palin you're not going to be getting like an online brute-force attack of your account That's what a lot of people think of like oh, okay You're gonna hammer out my Facebook and it's like no actually you're not that interesting Yeah, and that's part of the The problem with that and then what you're saying is while there are easy hacks out there Those are the easy hacks to avoid if you pay attention like don't answer with obvious questions use strong passwords Other hacks are very or difficult Ridiculously, which is why the Googles of the world are paying $50,000 for these things So, you know, it's not like you're just like, you know in the movies where you just like Jamming on hacker people get hacked all the time. Yeah. Well, okay, so here's a social engineering in less Yeah, people do because accounts get leaked and that's because like a major site gets compromised And then you didn't use good passwords and it was easy to reverse the hash I would say that in less you are a Engineer working for big industry. You're most likely not a target. Although I say that by really what I mean is if you're an engineer For a major industry, you're a target. Yeah. Yeah, you know, don't underestimate the The side door of going through, you know engineers have access to the important good stuff Yeah, and if you can get them at home, then you can get in to the office And it doesn't it could even be like, you know me and you or our parents or our brothers and sisters or anybody It could really be a target in my eyes. I mean, I used to work at the end. They get to you exactly exactly I used to work as a bank teller. I wasn't a you know, special person there or anything I was just you know, giving out money, but my the fact that I worked at that company. Yeah You think it is dealing with cash every day and you're like, oh, this isn't mine It's just pieces of paper. So it's not that important But everyone ends up being a target in some way or fashion and a lot of it depends on who your friends are Who is in your network or who your colleagues are where you work? Who's the what's the movie example of difficulty? Sort fish So they make it look really exciting Well, that's the other thing is it isn't sexy and it isn't exciting and it's really just months of sitting around in your pajamas eating cornflakes and Actually, lucky charms. I would say another major misconception about actors is the intent right right because they want to steal Our things they're coming for me, right? That's their intent is to just ruin my life. Absolutely, right? No, why not? No, what no no because the hackers are like the dozers or dozers from Is that how you pronounce it? Dozers Are the ones making the world a better place by breaking the infrastructure so that way now Breaking things making things better that because then you find out where the week Find a vulnerability and they express that vulnerability either to the company itself and hopefully they get a bug bounty or they Release it publicly if they don't get an answer from the company to fix it so here But here's the real question like people hear that I think most people know that those people exist But they think well those are the exceptions Those are very but that's the thing is most people that I know and most people that I see at conventions and most people That I've met online are the people that are interested in doing good Yeah world with their with their smarts with their ability to do some kind of penetration testing or hacking So I don't find a lot of bad people. Why is it we always think of the hackers are the bad people? I mean because there are there are some right? Yeah, but is it just a I think it's because of Hollywood and because of the media because a lot of times what we find in the media is all They portray is the bad people. Why don't we ever have any hacker good? Are there any hacker good movies like white hat hacker? Which was a documentary yeah, that's real life. Yeah, it's it's it's actually I guess war games kind of Or the net the net the net. Yeah, that's a great example. I love the nice symbol Yeah, yeah, because your life will get turned upside down and then you'll end up in you know I mean is it as bad as I remember it is pretty that was awesome But it's got Sandra Bullock's to watch it all right ransomware I'll use it as an example of when it we talking about intent ransomware and other schemes like that to extract money from that intent. That's an example Yeah, that is bad intent. That's something that criminals do using hacking techniques Okay, so wait a minute You're saying that the people who do ransomware aren't hackers No, I'm saying that hackers are actually legitimate security researchers who are making tons of money by selling exploits By finding vulnerabilities and taking them to the company and say hey One problem that we have right now is we haven't found a really good word to define the bad hackers Right, we only use hackers for that huge General definition of everybody the good guys and the bad guys and we need a specific word just for the baddies and black hat Hacker doesn't necessarily work. Yeah, white hat and black hat are pretty good, but no one uses them It's like it's like your hacker curious right because that's what hacking really is Unfortunately, and I hate to say this because hack 5 is built at the brand on the word as have many others But hacker is kind of a lost cause In the main in the main you know what you're absolutely right Nobody is going to call people that build model train sets hackers. I think it's it is lost Well, should be a good is it? Oh, I see what you're right MIT the model train, but they don't Everybody uses hacker to mean bad So should should we give up and just come up with a no, this is why security researchers used a lot And and that's a little bit better. I like that security research has that kind of Exactly Penetration tester it's a lot of syllables and some people look at that with kind of a negative And what if you take security expert and just merge it into one word suck No I Start using that I think I should just emphasize though that the real hacking is really just about curiosity And it's about learning for the sake of learning. So if you're an auto-digit Then you may be a hacker if you love just the idea of learning the ins and outs of something to the point where you Understand it and then can make a novel use of that technology that wasn't previously thought of then that that in of its core Is the essence of hacking. So mr. Robot. Mm-hmm good example. Yes of a hacker story I like that one with you know with the none of them are perfect, but it's would you say it's the best one we've gotten so far No Legitimacy I would say yes because they use a lot of real-world hacking techniques and they use a lot of real-world Products that are used with security penetration testers, but as far as his Morals, I would say those are a little iffy right they had to make him a dark character to make it interesting He's not a security expert Yeah, you know what you're actually going to have to catch me up speed because I have yet to power through this series That said maybe you can explain to me I'll give you some of the ideas of you know mainstream misconceptions of hackers I'm gonna talk about the apparel and you'll tell me if mr. Robot fits these attributes because obviously Despite what you may have seen in the graphics for most articles about hacking Black hoodie. Yeah, he wears a black hoodie Bala clava I don't think he has a ball of no ball of clava. Okay, what about what about miss remember does he does he type with sunglasses on? Yeah, well not all not inside. Okay? He does wear sunglasses typing with gloves on No, I don't think he did gloves. Yeah, really and then not even just boxing gloves cuz I said toners I don't know I would say though So he's got the black hoodie. Okay, so the black hoodie is well, you know what? I will actually give the black hoodie a that that actually is a mark of If you go to Defconn, you'll see the black hoodie the black t-shirt has the sticker unofficially uniform That's the other thing is the stickered laptop makes your kernel compile faster Most people don't realize it. It's true little tip. Yeah Yeah, because it pulls the compilation towards the center of the computer with all that stickiness and more over as far as the Apparel of your computer not just stickered up, but your command prompt obviously has to be green on a black background Yes, and flashing flash. Yes, although I will say you can do white on a black background I've seen that I think mr. Robot is actually uses real command prompts So that's kind of cool like they avoided that whole swordfish thing. Yeah, yeah 30 point I'm glad to see actually hacker movies and TV shows recently have gotten rid of the 30-point font Know what they do? Yeah, they've been hiring people that I'm I know personally To work with them behind the scenes to actually get it right Yeah, also, you know a pro tip if you're running a Windows box color space a in the command prompt boom Get your green and black on color space a do now You're a hacker and then just do tree and that neon rollerblades by the way optional as it turns out Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, so I couldn't tell those. Yeah, you'll get around a little faster with them But that's just about it. Also, we don't all live in mom's basement. Yes, that's the thing We don't all live in mom's basement. I mean if you're 16 or 17 and you're learning how to be a security professional that's one thing, but if you're much older Generally, you don't generally you make a really good salary and either own or rent Yeah, in all actuality like just picture an IT guy and that's a hacker. Yeah, I mean I do guys are In order to do their jobs, what's the difference between hacking and systems administration is just a different mindset title Yeah, exactly red team blue team. Whatever you want to call it So the only movie that I thought we might get to that we have a yet is sneakers What is sneakers teachers? It's a great example of social engineering working and and actually that's the majority of like some of the But like when we go to major conferences, you know def conch mucon derby con things like that I love like the hallway stories where Names are changed to protect the innocent of some of the clients and such but But just that the social engineering aspect and how Frequently that works and how that's actually like the go-to. So if anything like hacking is social. Yeah, yeah Which is interesting? Generally us as a community are not Like getting out there and meeting people on a day-to-day basis We but we are when we go to conventions because it's kind of like a family All right. Thank you guys now you have some movies to watch so go watch those movies and Let's get to our pick of the day, which is a mini documentary From Eva Luna Marini. She was actually a student of Jenny Josephson. Oh Academy in Los Angeles. Yes, New York family Academy in Los Angeles. It happens And she did a mini doc on patreon. She interviewed Jack Conti She interviewed myself and a couple other patreon users and you can go watch it on vimeo. It's at vimeo.com Go check it out. I'll have the link of the show notes at daily tech news show calm It's really well done and I think it's seven eight minutes long Okay, it really gets the point across of why jack started it Why it continues to work and what people are using it for so well done Send your picks to a spoke feedback to daily tech news show comm and you can find more picks at daily tech news show comm slash picks Let's get to our message of the day from Jamie in Vancouver who says I've been driving public transit buses Buses probably is what he would say Professionally for the last ten years and in my experience when you're talking on the phone or doing anything other than focusing on what is right in front of you You go into what I like to refer to as Default mode. This is where your habits you've accrued over the years take over and you're not consciously driving as a professional driver My default mode is sometimes safer than when I'm actually fully consciously driving I have a phone on the bus for when transit communications needs to get a hold of me and while talking to them I can go several blocks without remembering anything of what I was doing because I was driving completely in default mode It's a little hard to wrap your mind around But I feel like when people are talking on the phone while driving it means their bad habits have accrued over the years and have taken Over and that's why they're the worst drivers than when they're looking forward and actually paying attention So I know a lot of people want to jump on this and like it's a horrible bus driver because he said he wasn't paying attention And can't remember but I'll do it. Yeah, his yes, exactly I did a six-hour drive from LA to San Jose yesterday. They're definitely stretches where I was in default mode I know exactly what he's talking about. What do you so yes make your criticisms if you must But I'm more intrigued with this idea of someone who has been trained to be a driver is Is going to be better able to handle that distraction. Do you think people could be trained to be? Good cell phone users in cars. I think you have to start really young if you're gonna do that like Even then like it's like little league little league of bus drivers Well, that's the obvious reaction is like well, let's not do that like why why bother But the opposite side of it is but people are gonna do it anyway they're going to use their phones in their cars no matter how many laws we pass and Endanger other people and self-driving cars are farther off than you think yeah, so wouldn't it make so you're saying like breathing I don't think about breathing. I just do it right that default mode where I'm like whoa How did I even get here and it's like the last several miles disappeared? I mean it's not exactly the same because breathing happens at a different part of your brain Well, how do we get driving into that part of the brain? I don't think you can get it into that part of the brain But how do you get it as close as possible is an intriguing question to me This may be a horrible idea like I'm not I'm not advocating for it But I'm intrigued by the concept driving with a Bluetooth from birth We don't drive from birth. Well, I guess we drive from birth now. Yeah, yeah, baby drivers I don't know is this a horrible idea. Let us know feedback at daily tech news show dot com Thank you guys so much. I cannot thank you enough for letting me into your home here Go into all the work to set this up and make this happen. It was awesome We've been inspired by you and the work you've done for you know decades, dude, so decades It's your story bro a decade. It actually is literally decades. Yeah, that's more than 10. Oh, right It's been more than once so we're coming on. We're in decade, too, right? Yeah, huh? H8k 5.org though to find more about real hacking No, you can see this set transform and when I say transform. I mean this logo Because Anything coming up do you want to let folks know about Yeah, this is a really fun one So if you travel a lot and you'd love to see how Shannon I travel with tech like beyond the just like I roll up my shirts So we go over a lot of photography tech that we decide to bring with us on our trips And how we differ with our packing styles to not just because I'm a girl not bring makeup But like our actual technology that we bring with us it varies from person to person So it's pretty interesting to see like what kind of technology we bring and how we packed it all into just carry on Org hack your travel Len Peralta, you've been busily trying to illustrate our concept of what is happening in the world of hacking Yes. Yes. Well, I you know, I tried to hit all the notes here with what I think hackers look like From the movies and I remember watching a lot of bad hacker movies as well growing up But I you know this one I felt I would actually watch this one. It's called a hackers university not hackers university one hackers university two starring our good friend Shannon Morrison Darren kitchen that you can kind of see if you go to the The video or if you look on my online store, you'll be able to see, you know, just you know It's Aaron's got a cool little hacking tool that is emitting some sort of electrical thing Yeah, something like that it's whatever whatever it does I'm sure that he waves it and gets all the information in that little round pink ball that he's holding on to there And the other thing is really cool You know, it's it looks like a movie poster obviously what I really like is that the tagline is relax It's a Unix system And their magna cum laude in hacking so so yeah, so there you go. Oh, you're welcome Let's we're just gonna you know every year at DEF CON we like to have a theme I think we're just gonna roll with this one I say this is your cosplay Darren Because heckers university one was so good I'm sure they're rollerblades underneath Andrew hack clay Dice conference Len Peralta store.com obviously if you want to take a look at it or buy a copy of it as well, right Len That's right. Len Peralta store.com You can also get this as a digital file if you go to my patreon patreon.com forward slash Len back to the DTNS Lover level you'll get this and all the other images I draw every Friday As a high-res print that you can then print out on your own. So there you go Hey, the reason I had the ability to pay for gas to drive up here was because of you Thank you for supporting the show if you are already supporting the show if you're not and you're willing to help us get bigger and better patreon.com DTNS get in there and just pledge a buck a month to keep us going $5 a month gets you a few extra perks like the treasure chest and early access to new stuff as it comes out We even have a co-executive producer level if you want to get a business card That says you're a producer of the show or the analyst level that gets you into our slack That's patreon.com slash DTNS our email address is feedback at daily tech news show.com You can give us a call 51259 daily. That's 593459 catch the show live Monday through Friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern at dimonclub.tv and helping with media.com Visit our website www.thegnewshow.com Back on Monday with Ms. Veronica Belmont Talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpants.com Diamond Club Hope you have enjoyed this program He was so good he was like losing breath He was so excited It's a great run through take two Let's go Can you hear me? Len I love your picture Can you hear me Tom? No I can't Yeah say you're on 2 right now Okay just so you know for some reason the last quarter of the show something happened to your audio got real low Compared to Len's and the Okay I'll take a listen to it Okay Fresh batteries Show about titles while you're fiddling Yeah can you guys pick a title while I listen to this Yes Alright so for Darren and Shannon Growing kale in a nightclub which I like I feel like kale needs to be in quotes For that to work But you can't put quotes in a final name Competition by deception Move my bits