 Over the weekend, these pictures of members of the Islamic State in West Africa province sharing money and footstaff to some residents of North-East Nigeria were widely shared on social media. In more pictures, the group organized a Ramadan preaching session with hundreds of children and adults in attendance. The pictures point to one thing – the terror groups control territories within Nigeria. An independent researcher and conflict reporter, Aliyuth Dahiru, joins us from Abuja to discuss this. Good morning, Mr Dahiru. Good morning. Yes, good morning. Thanks for being here. So you are one of the few people who first posted those pictures online. What can you tell us about the pictures? Where did you get them from? And regarding the content, because lots of people say, could this have been in Nigeria or not? And what exactly is happening in those pictures? So how do you interpret this for us? Well, this was the first time that these terrorists spread propaganda pictures of videos on social media, especially those encrypted social media spaces like Telegram and others like that. So this was not the first time they have been released these kind of videos on these pictures. And the ISWA, that is the Islamic State in West Africa province, released these pictures as part of the other pictures they released in other countries in the Africa, in West Africa, not only in West Africa but the world over. I mean from their parent body, that is Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. So the pictures are parts of those released by the IS world over. We know what the pictures look like. You know, this ISWA fighters distributed money and food, you know, to these people. Lots of people say maybe they're trying to convert them, you know, recruit them into their food. But what's the fact? You know, when they capture territories, they possibly convert people. Even if you say you are not actually going to join the group, they will possibly convert you. They will force you into the group. So even without spreading the money, I think they would, they are were initiating these people into their group. But spreading the money is actually a propaganda methodology that you're going to show. Yes, even if you join us, we are going to give you something. It's not like we are going to leave you alone. It's not like we are going to give you with financial distress and depression. We are actually going to support you. It's the same thing that they did when they captured Gaidem in Yobi State. They followed all the houses in Gaidem and they started giving them like the 20K per household. So it's actually a propaganda mission that they are using to, you know, attract the attention of the others who are enjoying to tell them that even if you join, it's not actually going to end in the future. We are going to support you. We are going to give you, when you are going to give you food, you are going to give you whatever you require that Nigerian state or other African state are not going to give you. All right. So what does this say about the idea of them controlling territory and territories in Northern Nigeria? Does this give, you know, does that make that true? And of course, what does it also say about Nigeria's security agencies and their level or the ability to wipe these persons out of Nigeria's space? Well, I think so many people commenting on social media misunderstand this thing. Boko Haram kept us from this 10th territory. It's not like in 2014 when they captured about 20 local governments, I mean local government that are in the town. Nowadays, Boko Haram attacks were mostly in the villages or remote areas of Nigeria, but they are still controlling some places. So it's also like they were totally abolished from controlling any territory. They are actually controlling some villages. And the thing is, if they come and attack a particular location, they stay there for a while before the army would now come at a different place. So it's not like what people are thinking that the government has abandoned the spaces or the villages that abandoned the communities and these people are controlling the teams. And another thing is that there are many innocent people out there in those committees they are controlling. So if we are to see like an airstrike operation would be done, then a lot of innocent people would be killed. So there are lots of ways that these particular places would be kind of liberated or kind of safe from the house of these people without harming the innocent people out there. So most of the time when the government talk about accepting repentant Boko Haram tourists, the government is actually talking about the fighters they're talking about those people that joined the Boko Haram forcefully. Okay. So a lot of people misunderstand. It's not all about that Chico has now become repentant and now we have accepting him, we are accepting him for any other big commander has accepted fees and drops his arm. The government is integrating him into the society, something like that. Most of those that are integrated into the community or back into the society, most of them were forced to push into the terror organization unwillingly. I mean, so it's not like so many people don't understand these things. They just keep writing on social without understanding what's going on in the field. All right. Mr. Dahiru, you mentioned earlier that these swap fighters could go from house to house after capturing a territory and then they begin to give them money as much as 20,000 Naira, like you've said, for each household. And in the pictures we saw, these terrorists were distributing 500 Naira notes to young kids. In your research as a conflict writer, were you able to in any way trace the source of these funds? Would you say these are from their financiers? These are from ransom payments? Well, Boko Haram actually has many sources of income. Sometimes when they raise a particular location, they confiscate money from the residents. That is another one. And another thing is that they engage into some small, like fishing, they get taxes from the people, the people, the reason of the particular place they captured. That is another thing. And then, and sometimes they engage into kidnapping for ransom. So they get a lot of money. Getting financiers often just outside their zone is really difficult now. It is officially with the new banking system that we have, with the BVN and all those talks. And the Nigerian government is tracking all the activities of people, transacting with any other person, especially those kind of terrorists. So it's really difficult to be engaging into transactions for like transaction with these people. But these are the major sources of their income. They get taxes from the residents of the particular location they captured. That is number one. And they confiscate money from the people in the residence, especially those who they attack and believe. But that is those who are not following the same particular ideology that they are following. They confiscate their properties of money because they think that is admissible according to their own interpretation. So basically it's true why we hear that some communities actually come together to contribute money to pay to these terrorists as taxes and levies so they can be protected. It's not so that they can be protected. It's that the fear that they may be killed if they do not pay that. It's just like kidnapping for ransom. If you do not pay, the terrorist will kill your brother or your husband or your close one. So you have to pay if you need your close one to be released. That's the same thing. No, I'm not talking about the ransom. I mean the taxes. The taxes you mentioned. Yeah, that's where I'm coming. So when they capture a particular location, the residents, if they need their life to be supplied, they have to pay this kind of taxes when they impose them on them until when the army will now come and liberate that particular location. I also want you to speak on what an eye on the ground is like for those locations. For those that the army has not liberated, then of course, from what you're describing, once the army liberates a place, do they still come back to those locations? Or that's it for them in that location. And what is it like on ground with these people? Do you see them walking around? Are they part of the community? Is there places where people know that they stay and they leave? Share with us. You know, paint a picture of what it is like on ground. I didn't understand. Do you mean like what's it on the ground when they capture a particular location? No, yeah. When these ice war fighters, exactly, what is it like? Do they leave among these people? Are they walking around with their weapons? Yes, that's what they do actually. They leave with them. They try to cycle that particular location, especially villages They have small population, so they could control them even without sophisticated arms or millions or thousands of fighters. They actually leave with them and they try to impose their own interpretation of violence in that particular location. They leave with them until maybe sometimes when the army would come at the break that particular location. And the thing is that most of what is happening is that the army, the army have limited number of fighters to remain at that particular location after they're liberated. So when they liberate that particular location and all those properties in that location, you know, actually are destroyed, then they move to another location to liberate them. So while moving there, unfortunately, these stories, at some time they come back to that particular location. That is the major problem that the Nigerian government is facing, especially in the next slide. And another thing, let me tell you the thing is that these stories have their own propaganda. The propaganda is not only in videos or it's only in pictures. Sometimes they try to implement what the government could not implement in remote villages. I mean, like they try to bring basic amenities in that particular location. They try to bring, you know, sometimes if there is, you know, default power system, I mean, that the electricity system at that particular location, they try to see that the repair is so that the people start enjoying it. I said, oh, you see, these people are even more masterful than the Nigerian government. But the terror comes later, especially when you want the people start to do something that is against what the terrorists are trying to implement there. Then that's any mistake, then you'll be killed. Okay. That is what that's called. So Mr. Daira Hiru, do we have an idea of, you know, just how much states, communities or territories that is swap or book around fighters control in northern Nigeria? I can't actually say these are the numbers because I don't know actually. Sometimes I know what I see. I know what I get from other places or what other conflict reporters or what I can get from the field. So that is it. But I cannot see these are the But how widespread is it? Yeah, can you give an estimate of, you know, what their numbers are like? I'm not conversant with the all the locations. So in village, I don't even know that until they capture them. Then I will come to know that. So I can't really estimate. But recently they captured them and they captured most or many territories in the lecture region. And the lecturing is only in Nigeria. There are parts of the maroon. There is a part of the desert. There are too many countries. I was hoping that we can get to, you know, if they're in their hundreds and they're in their thousands across those regions. Yeah. Do you mean in terms of fighters? Yeah. Are they in their thousands or, you know, just a couple of hundreds of them? I can't really say, but I believe they are at the outskirts there because they force people to join them. They are forcing people. So you tend to know that these are the particular, those are the exact numbers that are about there. But you know what? I actually know what I'm saying about that. When they capture a particular location, all those there, especially those who they see, they have like, they put up a military capacity to force them to join their fighters. All right. Aliyu Dahil, thank you very much for your time this morning. Remember to continue to stay safe. We would love to continue to speak with you every now and then. Thank you very much. All right. So we're still talking security in the state of the nation after the break. We have the director of publicity and advocacy of the Northern Elders Forum after the break. Do stay with us.