 Oh, no, no, just to let you guys know hey, we're live video Don't say your sister security number Don't hold up a sign with your It's 222 222 222 that's somebody somebody's out there. They're like, oh that is they're gonna keep Social security numbers same as the guy who does the accident attorney on the highway 101 or five that has a big billboard Oh Time I saw your review of ready player one Yeah, was it Was I couldn't tell from your tweet if it was just sort of like an Under-enthused or unimpressed. Well, my scale is Said you liked it. I said ready player one was great Yeah, but I couldn't tell but it was there was no like second one up on the good side of my scale Okay, so was worth seeing. Yeah, I mean your mileage may vary. I don't know. Okay, maybe you'll hate it, but I liked it had fun No, everybody's seen it seems to have liked it quite a bit. Let's see. I love dogs. I Was more disappointed by I love dogs than ready player one But I had high expectations for that and low for ready player one. So that's probably interesting. I'm gonna see both of those All right, you guys ready Yes, I'm a rudder here we go The Daily Tech news show is brought to you by people like me not outside organizations to learn more go to Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Friday April 6th 2018 from DTS headquarters in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feline I'm Sarah Lane and from my art cave in beautiful Cleveland, Ohio I'm Len Peralta. No, no, no, no, no, no, no art cave It's good to have you back Len. It's good to be last week. We missed you. We did we made sure we had the most Illustratable topics last week When you're gone, it's good. It's good to be back and I'm sorry I missed it But I'm ready to hit the road with some great stuff this week I'm excited to talk today to our guest Shelly Brisbane author of iOS access for all Podcaster and web editor at the Texas Standard one of my favorites when I used to live in Austin Shelly welcome back to the show Thanks, Tom. It's great to be here. It's great to see my old friend Len over there from back when we were podcasters a long time ago Oh gee podcast exactly. We're absolutely OG podcasters That's fantastic. I we're gonna talk to Shelly about some of the latest trends in accessibility devices Thanks to our producer Roger Chang for putting this all together today Uh, hello, welcome He's busy. Don't bother. He's producing right this minute. That's right. That's right. Why don't I do it? Let's start with any tech things We should know Spotify announced a press event to be held April 24th in New York City The invite contains no clues about what the announcement might be about although some Reddit users claim to have received offers for an in-car Spotify hardware device Roscoe Medzor Russia's communications regulatory agency filed a lawsuit Friday against telegram After the company declined to give Russia's FSB Security agency access to its users encrypted messages Roscoe Medzor is asking the court to restrict access in the territory of Russia By telegram so basically kicking them out of the country Walmart will add 500 more pickup towers to US stores this year the company started the towers last year It's basically Walmart's answer to Amazon's locker system Where you place an order online and then you pick up from a locker at a nearby store The new towers will feature pickup lockers that are big enough to let customers pick up larger orders like TVs Now unlike the past 17 days, Facebook's in the news today In fact, we could have done the entire show just about Facebook stories if we decided to but we're gonna collapse them into one segment here Here are the allegations Facebook is facing Friday Brazil has fined Facebook 33 million dollars for failing to hand over data from WhatsApp And as you recall WhatsApp encrypts everything end to end so the data is really not there That's been an ongoing fight with Brazil Facebook has halted discussions with hospitals about using data to improve patient health and health research Because Facebook sharing and data in a sentence makes people go crazy Six organizations in Myanmar signed a letter that Facebook's response to hate speech there Which was used by Mark Zuckerberg as an example in his interview with Vox was slow and Largely powered by them the people on the ground the locals not by Facebook's system according to the letter Privacy protection agencies in Canada and its province of British Columbia are combining their investigations into ad targeting company aggregate IQ and their relationship with Facebook Additional appearance on Capitol Hill is happening if you recall Zuckerberg will be appearing before the US House of Representatives Committee April 11th he'll also now appear before a US Senate Joint Committee on April 10th the day before and Facebook announced that any entity buying an ad about issues will have to be verified The ad will be labeled a political ad and there will be a disclosure about who paid for it Okay, but there is one story getting most of the buzz and it's this one three sources told TechCrunch That old messages they had received from Mark Zuckerberg had been removed from their messenger accounts Something that you as a messenger user can't do unless you start the conversation as a secret conversation Facebook verified this told TechCrunch that messages from executives have a limited retention time as a security measure That was put in place after the Sony Pictures hack back in 2014 Facebook now says after a bit of outrage about that that all users will soon get the ability to unsend messages And they promise Mark Zuckerberg will not use that feature himself again until it's available for everyone Okay, deep breath Sarah, where do we go? Which what what what should be our favorite outraged fate spoke story of the day? Oh Man, pick your pick your poison. Okay, so well, this is not necessarily the one I'm most outraged about but Issues, you know in quotes Marked as political ads Okay, if they are indeed political that makes sense to me, but what constitutes an issue? Well, they're they're saying anything that is that you know I mean sure that's going to be true of any moderation I haven't looked at what their definition was but let's let's just assume that they have a definition definition that says Any debatable issue not a product anything that's being discussed in the the common campaigns whether you're Targeting a particular candidate or not would that satisfy? I guess so on the subject of Zuckerberg sending messages to people that have since disappeared, I mean he never sent a message to me but Facebook messenger already allows you to delete a message. You've sent they still get it though Because I've done this in the past where I'm if it's a secret if it's a secret conversation if you start just a regular conversation I don't think you could could you? No, you can you can but if it's already sent especially if somebody has Send messages to email enabled the message might go away within messenger, but that email doesn't go away So I I'm not exactly sure how well, no, but that's what they said is that Zuckerberg was able to pull the message out of their inbox They didn't delete it. He did and they had the email to prove it had been sent. That's what the whole controversy is about Well, yeah, I mean that's how it works. That's only works if you do secret conversations turned on which it sounds like you have turned on I don't have secret conversations turned on Shelley. What's your what's your favorite of these Facebook stories? I'm interested in the the health one because Clearly this was probably an initiative that they were pretty excited about There's probably a whole team full of people that have been in a meeting for a while So we're not gonna talk about this for a while because yeah So I don't know whether it would have been a good thing or a bad thing But it feels like Facebook is just you know hiding under the table and waiting for things to blow over at this point And and this health thing would is obviously something that would have created a lot of questions Which on some days they might like is a distraction, but on other days It's just like you know, um, I think we'll just be as friendly as we can be We'll just rewrite our policies every week. Well, that'll keep us busy for a while. Yeah, just don't do anything Yeah Yeah, the deflection of it It's like yeah, exactly what story means the most to you what other stories, you know Can we throw at you to possibly you know, I don't know look a bear Exactly Moving on snapchat is releasing the iPhone 10 exclusive a our snapchat lenses Friday These three lenses are a Mardi Gras like mask. They are the dead like skull So obviously, you know very timely and a gold plated eye cover snapchat will have access to some visual-facing map mapping data Within the iPhone 10 to make the lenses work But Apple says the mathematical representation of your face will not be shared with snapchat I found this interesting that the verge story made sure to go into that because now Everybody's crazy about what data is being shared and so every feature out there has to be very explicit about what's happening And what isn't? In a press release they had to write the words a mathematical representation of your face Yeah Don't worry. Yeah the distance between your nose and your upper lip will not be shared But we know it and we can take that information at any time when you're not looking well Yeah, you don't I mean people legitimately don't want the mathematical representation of their face shared because that could be used to unlock their phones Samsung says it expects Q1 revenue to rise 18.7 percent to 60 trillion won It's typical in Korea to file an earnings report Forecast with their regulatory agencies. That's why we get these forecasts from Samsung and LG all the time Earnings are driven by chip sales and strong mobile phone sales course galaxy s9 selling well for Samsung However, NAND prices NAND flash memory have been falling and it is expected that the RAM supply May be outstripping demand finally which could cause RAM Prices to fall which you system builders are probably thinking is good news But it's bad news for Samsung Because it's leading analysts to expect Samsung's earnings might slow or even fall in Q2 Samsung reports its actual Q1 earnings in April Meanwhile, South Korean prosecutors searched Samsung's offices Friday investigating allegations that the company undermined workers efforts to strengthen unions So Samsung had its chief thrown in jail Gone through a controversy now their offices are being investigated and the money just keeps rolling in I guess I Wonder if maybe Mark Zuckerberg and the Samsung chief who was in jail and I believe is out now Yes, he is out now. I wonder if they're exchanging Facebook messages, right about now saying dude I've got problems. You've got problems. Let's be friends. And we're still making so much money Earnings are up speaking of earnings by the way LG expects its Q1 operating profit to rise 20% year over year to its highest in Nine years LG is the number two TV maker in the world behind Samsung So TV sales as well as home appliances are likely to be the driver Although LG did not give details in its filing. Also, mobile phones were expected to post a loss for LG Yeah, not the I think people focus so much on LG's mobile phone woes that they forget that the company is One of the few successes out there at selling TVs these days and their home appliances are killer We you know, we don't cover white goods on this show So we don't touch on that aspect of their business as much, but they do very well for LG So again Things looking good for Korean tech companies right now. Just raking in the know Shelly, do you happen to have an LG phone? I do not I have one of the washer. What's that? What's that little company Apple something like that? Ah, yes. Yes. Yeah, but they don't make washers and dryers No, that's not yet I'm looking for the face ID washer and dryer that I can buy at some point who would better make white goods than I was Recently and somebody had an LG fridge I've seen them. I don't have one of those but I've seen that I don't either Yeah, I had an LG dishwasher and now Brett round civil has that LG dishwasher in my apartment in Oakland And it was fantastic whisper quiet was real like it was actually a quiet dishwasher All right, finally wallways p20 and p20 pro are now available through Vodafone UK online and in retail stores Starting to become available other parts of the world as well and the reviews are out. The praise is universally great for the camera Especially it's nighttime photos also people very excited about the 4,000 milliamp battery Which apparently really can do two-day battery life and they say on a normal day if you're gonna plug it in at the end of The night anyway, you pretty much don't need to worry about it So that's a crowd pleaser the negatives include the notch and the way the notch is handled and some of the other design choices Although that seems to vary by reviewer which which part of the design they don't like But overall these are these are super positive reviews for a phone that will now as we found out at CES Not be carried by any of the carriers in the United States This is considered the p20 is considered to be one of the top three phones in The cut in the world right now, right? There's the iPhone. There's the galaxy s9 and there's the p20 and It is not impossible, but extremely difficult to obtain if you live in the US. I Love the idea of the you know, I I often I am an iPhone user Has no surprise anyway, but you know the camera aspect of this these phones the p20 and the p20 pro They are I mean that I want I want the phone with the best camera That's sort of the thing that I've decided is is my thing because everything else more or less is the same You get the same apps, you know, you can call people you can text people whatever But I love the idea of how good the camera is and the fact that they've sort of thrown at a third camera into the mix And and raise the stakes as it were I think it'll be interesting to see whether people because they've been told no in the US will try and get them and What because the reason it's not going to be available in the US is because the government is looking a scans at Huawei And and so if you if you do bring one of these into the US What are the chances that some trouble will follow or I don't know? I'm just thinking on the fringes about how that how it might impact Folks in the US who just want either one either because it's a camera that they love or because they can't have it They've been told they can't have it. Yeah, I mean that's always gonna hurt your sales When it's when it's difficult to obtain, but I would be curious if it gets a momentum Anyway, you know one plus made some good inroads in the US without carrier support So it's it's certainly possible. I do believe that what we're starting to see is the first evidence that What is going to happen according to a lot of analysts is China's gonna have its own market US companies don't really exist there with few with a few exceptions the US has its own market and We seem to be wanting to keep Chinese companies out of it And so places like India Africa Southeast Asia are going to be the battleground where US and Chinese companies actually compete Where you're up in US kind of stay in their own enclave and China stays in its own enclave Folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines available on the Amazon Echo and on the Google home the anchor app and at dailytechheadlines.com So Shelly you recently attended the CSUN assistive technology conference And I'm very excited to hear some of the trends in accessible technology and it sounds like one of the big ones is around wearables Oh, yeah So CSUN is the CSUN is named for the University in Southern California that sponsors it, but that's sort of its nickname This is the biggest Accessible tech conference every year and so I guess you could call it the CES of accessible tech if you wanted to because it's fun to say So let's just call it that and this year. Yeah, wearables was a big thing because There there are a couple different kinds of markets for wearables for people with blindness or vision So if you're blind, why would you and by wearables? I mean glasses. We're not talking watches here There are a couple of watches out, but this year it was all about headwear and for a blind person Why would you wear a headwear? Well, it's because there are services and intelligence in that headwear that make it possible for a blind person to learn about their surroundings So some of them just have a camera that can do OCR and can identify objects And even people and some of them and some of them actually rely on services There's a company called Ira that makes that sells a service which connects a blind person to a live agent So that that blind person and then they have a camera on the head mounted camera on their on their face And they walk around and the agent says You know the the street sign is over that direction or this is how this is what your shampoo bottle says I'm simplifying it a great deal But the idea is a blind person can travel independently get information independently with the assistance of a live person And they pay by the minute for this service. That's not a brand new service It's been out for a little more than a year in sort of a beta program But what they've rolled out this year is a custom built glasses solution. It's called the horizon glasses Interestingly enough, they were actually using Google Glass as the hardware before And so one of the reasons they built the new one is so that it would look a little less like Google Glass But they've been basically it's controlled by a Samsung phone That exists to contact the agent and stream and and stream the Video to the agent from the customer and then the customer pays by the minute What is the charge per minute? It's you pay for plans 100 minutes is 89 bucks The hardware is free as part of the service and then there are increasing levels of coverage for more than that So it sounds kind of expensive 89 bucks for 100 minutes But if you're you know if you're a blind person that sort of acts independently in most cases But might need help in a specific situation you can judiciously sound sort of invaluable really Yeah, it's it's kind of amazing and it's really exciting to a lot of people who There are a lot of blind people who love technology but are very skeptical of things like this that's sort of You know lean toward the the words words like amazing tend to be used and blind people hate that Uh, but it really is it's kind of an astonishing service and it and I think what's impressive to me is that they've actually You know fairly quickly been able to build a custom hardware solution that does what they need it to do and Isn't you know put together with a bunch of spare parts, which is kind of what they did with the first version Is it an lte service? Is that how you're able to potentially be streaming all the time? Yeah, originally it was a my fi that came as part of the unit And now they're and basically you get a carrier plan with lte as part of the service And that that's the amazing thing too is that you're paying you're paying just for the minutes that you use But you're paying ira so all the carrier charges all the hardware stuff Everything else is wrapped up in that bundle and I don't know what the economics of that are but at least for the moment That's that's what they're able to offer now one thing I think that probably caught some people's ears was Saying that this is a service that you have a person at the other end looking at the images and describing them to you Mostly when we hear the amazing tech it's all about ai And like well you don't even need a person the ai will just be able to recognize what's around you and read it to you Was there anything even close to that there? Oh tom such a good segue So there's there's actually an app from microsoft called seeing ai that has been buzzed about since it was released last july They're already in version 2.0, but what seeing ai does and it's available on the iphone right now Is that you can it has six modes? I think it's six it might be more now You can if you but by choosing the mode you can tell it what you want it to do It can read short text so I could read a sign or I could read a label You can scan use ocr to scan and read a lot more text You can have it do color identification You can actually have it the fun thing and the party trick that everybody always does Is you point it at a person and it attempts to identify the the age Gender and other and the facial characteristics of the person so That could never go horribly wrong And so as I say, it's a good it's a good party trick and I got it in my newsroom And fortunately I was smart enough to point it at the the younger people Vanity in the group and it identified them correctly as smiling interns And then you can you can tag people also so if it if it sees me it calls me shelly because it knows my name So you could use it to identify folks and and microsoft has released this for free And it's just it keeps the thing that's amazing to me is not even so much the app But the fact that they quickly iterated and already put a 2.0 version out And they they of course won't comment But my first thought to them was you put this in a wearable You know, that's that's what you want is to have that ai available in a wearable product So I don't even have to interact with my phone I can just you know look at something and use a gesture and all of a sudden I know what color my shirt is Yeah What about braille devices? I you said there were there were some pretty interesting things happening there too So a couple of years ago what you know, this is what we call this the year of wearables braille kind of got a big bump a couple of years ago because there were some technologies that made it possible to create braille displays and braille display is Basically a device that connects to connects to a phone or computer that allows the blind person to interact with the text on their their phone or computer in braille and the The the dots that form those displays have actually been quite expensive And so braille displays have been going for in the low, you know, four or five thousand dollars And the technology that's become available in the past couple of years Has allowed vendors to create braille displays with dots that are considerably cheaper And so what you have are very small displays. There's one out called the orbit reader now That's under five hundred dollars, which is just amazing and I see I just said amazing three times and I said You just can't help it when you go to these conferences they put it in your head Yeah, and then there's another one called the commute that's a full page display The issue with braille displays is you're reading one line at a time typically and it's iterated in cells So 20 cells 40 cells a full page display allows you not only to do like more long form reading But also potentially interact with graphics and so there's a there's a relatively inexpensive full page display out So a lot of braille devices that were promised two years ago are finally starting to ship So that's pretty exciting. Now. I I know you focus on on site impairment. Did you get a chance to see any like hearing? or I'm sorry not hearing but site or for people who are deaf Did you see any? Yeah, I started saying it right. Yeah, it's not really at the CSUN conference. What's going on with hearing aids is more Is more in other places probably even CES. I'm not sure because I didn't I didn't go but that tends to be more uh Out in the mainstream world has and it is also a little closer to the phone carriers. So apple phone makers so apple has continued to improve the interaction between hearing aids and the iphone and added more hearing aids to the device To the compatibility list and so that technology is not something i'm super familiar with But I know that it's getting better and again I think it's getting a little less expensive because the thing people say about hearing aids is they're just terribly expensive and so You know getting a new one just because apple has provided some new whizbank technology isn't necessarily Accessible to everyone But but it is improving with a lot of help from the phone makers All right, so if if we're checking in on how the big companies are doing because it was a couple years ago that they All started their keynotes with accessibility and how much they were doing for accessibility Who's who's doing well in your opinion here? Well, I think that nobody is backsliding let me put it that way. Everybody's making strides forward I think the most interesting thing that's going on right now And I I think I might have said this I say this a lot when I in the past year or so I've been telling people this that microsoft is really building up ahead of steam Microsoft has had a screen reader on their Windows operating system called narrator for a really long time But narrator was never very functional and it wasn't good for anything else You usually invoke to a commercial screen reader screen reader that you installed as a third party product But now microsoft has really taken the initiative to make narrator much better It might not be the only screen reader you use on your computer, but it will allow you to Install a window system all by yourself without Assistance if you're if you're blind or visually impaired. They've also done a lot with xbox So xbox when you say, you know is gaming accessible Well, it usually depends on what kind of console you have and again, it's it's you're sort of reaching the edge of my knowledge as far as what accessibility on xbox How far they've come but there are But they've really made a lot of great strides and I think if you ask blind gamers What console is is provides the most accessibility right out of the box xbox is absolutely in the lead and so they've And and and a number of fronts microsoft has really been doing a great job Google and apple continue to add features to their products Google has is doing a good job with with an android of adding some more low vision features They started with a pretty good screen reader talk back. It continues to be iterated But but now they're sort of filling in some of the blanks that were left with With low vision features, which is something apple was art was also doing in the past year And then amazon has done a pretty good job of bringing Uh, their voice view screen reader to more platforms It started out on some kindle devices and on the fire tablets And now they've actually made a pretty big push to make amazon Firestick and other other television The devices that run with the run on the amazon platform Accessible to to voice for you. So so that's pretty cool as well Now just because you're enthusiastic about what microsoft is doing doesn't mean that you aren't aware of what apple is doing In fact, you wrote the book literally on ios accessibility, right? Yes, I did. It's a long look too So yeah, I mean apple is um, I felt people give apple grief because they feel like they're not making It's kind of the same issue that people give apple grief about generally inaccessibility that they're not You know doing the the wis bang things that they used to do They're just making what they already have better and there are complaints as there always are about a particular feature not working as well In ios 11 braille support really took a hit. It's not that they backed off on the feature It's just that there were a lot of bugs By the same token. However, as I said, they made some improvements in low vision support for They didn't create a dark mode But they came closer to it and making it a feature called smart invert colors in ios 11 Which makes it possible for you to use dark mode which would use a reverse video Which I do so that the screen the text is light and the screen is dark instead of the reverse And the problem with that was that images always appeared as a negative and with smart invert colors There's an attempt to make those so that you can actually scroll through your website in a in a dark mode configuration But you can actually see images of there as they were meant to be seen So, um, that's that's what they've been up to lately check out. Uh, shelly's book There's an ios 11 version of the ios Access for all at ios access book dot com. Thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit.com We have a facebook group to facebook.com slash group slash daily tech news show and we take the emails right sarah Yes, we do we actually got um, if somebody's looking for a new book to read to bias has a suggestion He says I heard a brief discussion about ai and war and combat scenarios with justin That was yesterday and a reminder me of the book the last good man by linda negata Near future military sci-fi book that's exploring warfare in the age of ai not for everybody But I think this is where sci-fi is at its conceptual best exploring the hard future trends and entertaining us at the same time Recommend the book and everything else by negata since this is a frequent topic in her books tom I'm not sure if you're familiar with her. I was not before today. I have not read linda negata though. Thanks for the recommendation Absolutely. Yes. All right. Let's check in with len peralta who has been illustrating this show for us len. What you got Yeah, you know at the top of the show tom you said you could do an entire show about facebook And i'm sort of glad you didn't uh, but what I wanted to do was was sort of talk about connectivity and uh, just freedom in general a little bit of a editorial comment on outweighing your freedom versus your connectivity And that this is this is what this image is about. It's called this is for the best and what it is is a is a A lightning person Yeah, connected lady A lightning lady who is unconnected from the plug and in the background A ton of people who are kind of grayed out connected in the back and it's just something to think about And it's like 1984's apple commercial over again And len I appreciate the description for those out there who are using screen readers and going wait len's got a drawing I wish I knew what was in that drawing man. You just told us Yes, I uh, I I think everybody should go to the store and check it out at len peralta store dot com And by the way just real quickly if you want, uh, if you have like an anniversary or a birthday coming up Hey, you know, maybe commission me for something because uh, I you know, I do stuff Yeah, I feel like he's pretty good at it. Yeah, I feel like this is your most like artistic It's probably the wrong word, but like it's very interpretation. I really really like this one. Yeah Thank you. Go check it out folks. Thank you. That's great Uh, shelly such a pleasure to have you on the show I know we talked a little bit about uh, the fact that you write really great books But let everyone know where they can keep up with you online So you can find me on twitter at shelly s h e l l y. Yes, I got an early You sure did. I bet you get a lot of our replies not for you I got a lot of bad bad bad. I block a lot of people. Let me just put it this way Also, there are an awful lot of people named shelly who seem to be social media experts and I get So anyway, uh, yeah, come on over Uh, and then I'm at brisbane.net which is allegedly where I collect all the things I do and then ios access book dot com If you need a book about ios accessibility Excellent Uh, thanks to everybody who supports this show. You can find out all the ways to support a daily tech news show dot com slash support We're always looking for folks to kick us a dollar or so on patreon and we have lots of cool rewards Uh to to thank you for your membership there at patreon.com slash dts And of course if you would like to show off dts in style if you're like, hey, you know what? Maybe I can't support on an ongoing basis, but I need clothing to cover me and warm me And that can also spread the word about the show Check out our shirts and our hoodies and our onesies And even coffee mugs at daily tech news show dot com slash store And if you really like your onesie or your mug or your shirt or your sweatshirt or anything Send us a photo feedback at daily tech news show dot com We'll kind of do a romper room type thing at the end. You know we say I see you Shelly and roger and len I don't know if we're gonna see that or not. We are live monday through friday, though I do know that at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 utc and you can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live Back on monday with justin robber young talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com Ironman club hopes you have enjoyed this program That was a great show that was so great. Yeah, really good I was I was conscious of time or trying to hit the post, you know, but yeah, yeah. Yeah, great It was fun. We packed a lot in too. It was good. We didn't even get to talk about vr wearables There was so much wearable stuff. I could have thrown at you. Well, we can have you back on But those are really trippy. I actually I should what I should do is get one Because oh, yeah, they've taken samsung vr headsets and they've made them into wearables for low vision people I should get one and like Model it on the on the show and tell you yeah, yeah, that'd be awesome So that's a good reason for me to get to review one An intense fire like it increases the contrast of Well, basically so so you put it on your you're seeing what the phone camera sees In the headset and you can magnify it. You can you change color scheme? So you can theoretically, you know, you can retext with it or more likely you can can walk around It's not something you do on a constant basis, but it's great for trade show floors You put that thing on your head and you can zoom in on a sign You can zoom in on people and they're adding apps So presumably they'll be able to do things like the or cam does where you can tag people and say hey That's joe over there. I think I'll walk over to joe and say hello Recognize joe or though. Anyway, so some of them the headset thing is is actually like the newest thing and they're They're pretty expensive and I and they're pretty warm to wear on an ongoing basis. I but I I like them. They're interesting Yeah, there is something interesting. They not everything has to be amazing to be interesting, right? It's great if it is but the trouble is that those hopeful these things all cost All these wearables cost crazy amounts of money I mean they really do and so you you almost feel like you have to pick and say well Where am I gonna put my two to five thousand dollars? Am I gonna put it in this headset or am I gonna put it in this pair of glasses that? Has a camera in it that does ocr and text identification It doesn't have an agent on the other end But it's just you know, it might have some ai or it might just be you know typical camera features So and then and then there's so many different kinds of vision loss And I always ask when I go interview these people well, how does somebody get this? Do they just come and buy it from you or do they need a doctor's prescription? There's some people that are selling them in such a way that I kind of wonder whether people are getting the thing That's best for their particular eye condition You know so but it's they're fun to play with and and I there's some of them that don't the headset ones I like they work for me But there's some Like the east side and the new eyes which are these little cameras that are in Glasses and and they're not really intended to provide any machine learning or anything They're just cameras that access the part of your eye that is not working properly And I can't use those at all But that's just because I have a different kind of vision loss than the people Yeah, and I think that's one thing that that I've become more aware of over the years That a lot of people don't realize is you know, it's not just blind or you can see there's this is all manner of different different So what kind of what kind of vision loss do you have? So mine is caused by a blockage in the optic nerve and the thing I can tell you about it best is just How it manifests itself. So I'm really sensitive to light if you notice I I tend to blink a lot It's not even all that bright in here, but I'm just super sensitive light. I'm very nearsighted You you don't want me driving any vehicles So I don't do that And and that's and then I'm colorblind as well But it's not as a lot a lot of eye conditions a lot of times in fact when you talk to these vendors They'll say well what eye condition do you have macular degeneration? Do you have rp? You have stargarts because once they know that They can tell you a lot about you know, whether it's central vision loss or whether peripheral vision loss Which kind of device is going to work for you? But when I walk up and say it's a blockage to the optic nerve that doesn't give them much information So that's why I have to go into that spiel about what my vision actually how it works I'll ask you your visual acuity and mine varies from day to day I mean it really does and different eyes and so every time you go to the eye doctor That's your acuity and I'll I'll give them a range But they always have to check and it might be different than what I said And has it always been the same has it gotten you know better or worse as you've aged or It's it's always the same and I actually that was one thing I was really interested in is how it would affect my ability to read like after I got to be 40 because you know everybody's vision Sure. Yeah. Yeah, and I I can't really I can't like tell you oh, it's this percent less Than it was. I don't feel like it's deteriorated, but I know what I put on old pairs of glasses It's different. So if that makes these it's about reading it's but I don't have like, you know low vision bifocals or anything So I it's hard. It's I want to quantify it because I'm a geek and it's just it's not But I cannot so yeah, well It's weird how your perceptions of those things just sort of run along with How they change and you don't notice the change because they're slow enough Well, another thing too is that because I always I had reading glasses and I would always read paper with them I never read screens with them and I've had computers forever, but I've noticed that since I've had Smart phones and and continues. Well, basically since I've read a lot less on paper, you know What do you read on paper anymore? Not much and since since I don't use vision correction to read on screens It the time between when I wore the last pair of glasses and the most recent pair of glasses is longer So I don't even have that like continuity of well last week. It was different last month, you know I think I think the title for the show uh, Shelly's accessibility tech rundown. Yeah, I like that. Okay. Love it I just called it podcast and Len can Yeah Oh, it's really good. It's really informative. Len's already got some art for that. So yeah idea. Yeah And I've got a banner which I should I should hang up in here next time. I know I'm gonna be on the show when lens on I'll hang there. Yeah, perfect Yeah, I know that was that was awesome. Good show. It was fun. Thanks so much for having me. Enjoy it. Yeah, of course It's a it's a topic that we get a lot of people requests from people to talk about uh regularly So it's it's important. Well, and yeah, and I get really grumpy about the way it's talked about in the mainstream world. Yeah, yeah Well, I guess the short version of what I get grumpy about is that there's really not much rigor So if we talk about Microsoft or apple or google adding an accessibility feature It's usually like well, you get a point because you did that but there's no actual discussion of how well does that feature perform and Somebody's response who covers tech in general might be well, how do I know I'm not blind? Well, then why don't you call somebody who is and get their opinion and either let them write your piece or be on your podcast or You know inform yourself or let them inform you. Yeah, and so that's always my You don't just get a point for trying you get a point for how well it works And I'm happy to say Such and such a company is leading in accessibility But right now their real support sucks Just the way I would say that about any kind of feature if if they're going to market on that basis Then they should be held to account on that basis. Well, yeah, I mean that just makes sense Right, like the Huawei reviews were not Huawei has a great camera And so they get points for making a phone It was probably has a great camera But I think the processor is a little slower. I think the glass design should have wireless charging, right? It's it's not an all or nothing situation and shouldn't be for anything Yeah, and it also makes it hard to explain accessibility because you always end up doing Accessibility 101 instead of saying I'd like to jump to the point where I tell you that Micro that did android does this thing better or apple does that thing better because I've actually used both of them And there's enough people out here Evaluating this stuff either for publications or in terms of their work because there are a lot of people who do this Who do these valuations because they work in rehab agencies and they have to help clients choose the right tech Yeah, yeah, you know it there is a knowledge base out there that I don't think a lot of people in the mainstream Pundit world or whatever have taken advantage of the way I'd like to see no because the clickbait is These accessibility hacks will do this for you. Oh, that's a layer. Well anytime I see 10 secret features I know there's gonna be at least one accessibility at least. Yeah things general accessibility. Okay. I knew that was coming Oh my god, my whole book. I could just retitle my book 100,000 secret features in the iphone You should you should do that you should do an ebook version Has that title just to compare And people would buy it too. That's so ridiculous Well, I've got the like my whole chapter four is low vision stuff and because that's where I live The way it's it's sort of much more written experientially and Kind of a hacker way than the other chapters are because So much of the way that I like interact with the world Of stuff that isn't designed for me is I just hack at it. I go. Yeah this and so It was so much fun to write that chapter because I finally get to write all that stuff down That's I mean the hacker ethos doesn't change right? It's the same one Uh, well cool. Yeah, uh, I'm gonna start pitching your book as ios hacks to people who don't need it That works ios accessibility hacks All right, um, let's see Sam quit it Yeah, so sam hit. I don't know if you realized if it's sam hit your mic pretty hard the No, it's lucy might have been lucy It was it sam. Oh, I'm sorry It it didn't last long so it wasn't worth He he usually does not even come in here. It was he's he's very on edge. I don't know. He knows grandma's coming to town or so Yeah Walking around howling and pawing at me. I would have let Rowan come in if I'd known it was cat friendly He would have walked in front of the microphone and the way the camera is angled You just would have seen this orange Oh, yeah, you totally could have that have been fine. Yeah. Hey cat friendly animal friendly It's an animal friendly desk and just knocks things over and or he sits there And he stares at the space where the thing is that he wants me to move. It just waits anytime If we had a Not dramatic earthquake yesterday, but an earthquake And you know now i'm like i'm very on edge because i'm a paranoid person So i'm like, why is my cat howling in the hallway right now? Like does he knew something that I don't you know, because it's like Does the cat get weirded out? Well, I mean, I don't know But the lore is that you know animals have that sixth sense So like they'll you know act weird before something's going to happen where i'm like It's true that animals can hear frequencies that you can't and there may be noises that are made at frequencies We can't hear that right tip them off. I don't know. No, it's hard to say I just you know, i'm like, are you why are you being weird? You know, you were fine Slept all you slept all day until the show started and then you're like On that case All right guys, I'm gonna go watch the uh, uh the indians Oh, well, do you mean the baseball team the baseball team? I thought maybe you're just making a bollywood reference. I'm gonna throw outside dancing from my yard That would be amazing Yes, incredibly it's my It's opening day, so uh, oh it's the home opener. Yeah Nice opening day was like last week or something. Yeah, the opening day was last week But not all the teams played at home. So they get their home. Well, that counts as another one Well for the home team it does. Yeah What do I know big deal Well, because opening day it's like, I mean half the teams aren't going to be at home. So right the home I just never thought about that deeply is all I'm saying We actually covered minor league opening day at the show because uh, nice they in in Some is the express Yeah, but what they've done is is interesting in order to market to hispanic to hispanic market I think it's this weekend. Basically what they've done is change the names of teams To uh, have some sort of hispanic content. So the express is the chupacabras this weekend. Oh, wow They changed their uniforms and they all sorts of like merch that's specific And I think they changed the food at the ballpark. So it's this whole like, hey, we're marketing to hispanic fans I mean, I'm not hispanic, but I would have absolutely gone to a chupacabras game 100 right I want to see their mascot likely to go to the chupacabras game. Yeah Yeah, like what's the mascot look like this is the this is what irritates me Part of my job is to put photos with web stories and of course we have copyright issues You can't just go taking mlb property and put sure they're a little litigious And so uh, the the person who produced the story Uh, didn't ahead of time as I always asked them to do go and get permission because you often can And so I had a generic round rock express picture and then I saw the picture of the it wasn't the chupacabras But it was the san Antonio team and they had this great hat. I was just like, dude I totally would have put that on the web if you'd gotten me permission before. Yeah This is my life Ask whether I can use pictures. Oh my gosh. My wife was going through something like that at her work Involving, you know back and forth with legal and it's like how much how much productivity is lost in the world Just because we it's well it's and like, you know, you're doing what you do Because what we do is we take the audio stories and we write them up into web posts and then we And anytime I'm in an art wormhole and I'm like looking for Uh creative commons art that I'm allowed to use anytime. It's more than five minutes. I feel like I'm wasting my day Yeah, yeah, it's just fun and We do report stories people will take pictures but other than that it's all creative commons stuff Well, then have a good time watching the ball game. Thank you and thanks everybody for watching us here as well And we'll see you Monday