 Welcome to the Monday, April 19, 2021 meeting of the Montpelier Design Review Committee. I will let committee members and staff introduce themselves by speaking their names. Eric Gilbertson, Liz Pritchett, Martha Smirsky, Benjamin Cheney, and Steve Everett, committee members. And Meredith Crandall, staff. Yeah, and he's very recording secretary. And Meredith, would you like to review the remote meeting procedures and process? I will. Just a quick question. Steve, were you giving John the meeting idea or was it somebody else I should be expecting to join? It was just John, he needed he needed the meeting idea. OK, no, great. Just trying to see if we were going to have another member of the public pop up shortly. So I'm going to share my screen here. This is mostly for people at home watching via Orca so that people can log in if they need to. 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I will now pass this meeting back over to the chair. Okay. Unless anybody has anything to add at this time, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda for the two applications? This is Martha. I move to approve the agenda. I'll second. That's Liz. All in favor of the agenda, please speak your names. Martha, Liz, and Steve. So we can go to the first application for 66 Main Street, the proposal for a seasonal outdoor seating. And I believe Jesse's there to describe the application. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Steve. I just, I needed to unmute myself there. I, I am zooming on my phone. So if you see me doing this on my screen, it's just because I can't see everybody's faces all at the same time. So pardon me for that. I, though I do, I do see that Ben, I think has kind of the best dicks going on here with the, with the outdoor situation there. Um, I want to thank you all for hearing my application on behalf of charliots. Um, quite frankly, I had hoped that I was going to be here in front of you all again, with a very different and more permanent application for a long term outdoor activation of our space next to charliots. Um, but this past year has proven more difficult than we had originally thought it was going to be, um, as far as being closed down originally in spring, limited seating in the summertime. And thank you, uh, all for allowing us to activate this last season. Um, and then we're losing the end of the year as well. And into this spring, it's, it's just put me in a place, uh, where I'm not able to invest into a more permanent activation there, but do hope to. So I am here with, uh, the same application that, uh, I brought forth last year, um, and that is, uh, similar, similar screening, uh, as last year, um, same amount of tables and chairs with, uh, umbrellas, um, my Ivy ad that you, uh, all had recommended. And quite honestly, I found to be handsome, but also hilarious. Um, and I hope, I hope that, I hope that this was, uh, to all of you and to most of Montpelier, a really nice ad to, uh, downtown in the summer months. And I'm hoping that, uh, you all feel like as far as activating it again with the same aesthetic, uh, and again with the hope that, well, at this point next year, we'll be able to do something a little bit more permanent. Or if things go well, maybe, uh, I can come to you later in the season with, uh, some updates as we, you know, put a little coin in our pocket. So I, I am here at, uh, at your mercy and hoping for, uh, approval, but also open to recommendations. Jesse, this is Martha. I think we discussed this last year, but you have in here a diagram, a picture of an arbor, an ironworks arbor that came from the black door. Um, what is the use of that? I think you might have told us last year, but I forgot. Sure. We, uh, we had, we had installed that last year and we, we kind of, we had used that as an, as an entry, uh, way point into, uh, the, what we call the veranda. And so just beyond the veranda on our property, we have, um, we have, uh, a bartender there who is checking IDs to make sure that everybody who comes into the space is, uh, legally allowed to be there. Okay. So this was moved down into your outdoor space then. If, yeah, it was, we had moved it down there, uh, last year. Okay. And then I have just one other question. There's pictures in here of Langdon street and I'm not sure where they come into your application. Um, and that is, that is a great question. Let me quickly just re-engage what I've sent along to you here. Um, Jesse, why don't I pull it up on the screen? Okay. Would that help you? Or, or, it was the application packet. I know, I know, I know the answer now. And, uh, uh, the answer is there are pictures of Langdon street there because last year we were hoping to have approval to install Ben Cheney's, uh, gates at the front of the lot. And so that was a, that was, uh, pictures of those gates installed on Langdon street for Langdon street alive. We have, we have since, uh, installed one of those in the lot and it, it's very big and cumbersome. And we have not moved it since we laid it down. Mm hmm. Okay. And so the, the way that we had used that, uh, last year, other than the fact that we wanted to give, uh, Ben and his genius, a little bit of shine there on Main Street was to, um, use it as uprights for, um, lighting across the lot, because it was, it was very tall and it actually served as, uh, a great pillar to basically hang lighting along. Okay. And then there's a person sitting in front of one of those. Is that the same reason? Same reason. Those are, those are there only, only to show that, um, they are public art and they are also useful public art. Okay. Do any of the other committee members have any questions, comments or suggestions? This, this Eric, I, I support the use of, uh, Ben sculptures, uh, there in, uh, you know, whatever way you see the best, I think making that a lot interesting and downtown is a good thing. Thanks, Eric. And they're obviously movable. Cause you moved one. That, yeah, I, I wouldn't say, say that they're super easy to move, but they can be moved. They're engineered to stay put if a large truck drives into them so they don't fall on anybody. Moveable only in the sense they're not permanently attached. Right. Tech, technically not, not permanently attached. Just, just sitting there with gravity, a lot of gravity. I always said that temporary is anything shorter forever. But they were, I mean, I guess I should say this, they, when we did put them at Langdon street, they were, uh, we did have to have them engineered so that when and if somebody were to climb to the very top of it, they weren't able to tip it over. So it is, um, it did go through engineering with, uh, DeWolf in an effort to make sure that it was not something that, uh, was a hazard to the public. For 200 pounds up at the top, it wouldn't fall over. You got it. Okay, unless somebody has any other questions or comments, I can read through the criteria that apply to the project. For all projects, number one, exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings are consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. That would be acceptable. Proposed landscaping shall be compatible with the neighborhood and the site on which the project is located. That would be acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, mechanical equipment, fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact or adequately and appropriately screened from public view. That's acceptable. And then outdoor lighting fixtures, structural design of any outdoor lighting fixtures shall be compatible with the architectural design and function of the building and compatible with the neighborhood. That's acceptable. And lastly, landscaping, screening and site furnishings projects within the design review overlay district and subject to the landscaping requirements in section 3203 shall consider the following site furnishings, including fencing, seating and other types of site furniture visible from the street or side yards. Does landscaping obscure or undermine key architectural patterns or elements and see mechanical equipment screening? All of those are acceptable at this location. All in favor of the application as presented. Speak your names. This is Martha. I'm a yes. Eric, yes. Liz, yes. I'm going to abstain. OK, and Steve says yes. So it is approved. Meredith, you want to comment on the next step for Jesse? Yeah, so Jesse, we will get that permit out to you as soon as possible. It's going to be basically the same conditions about removal time as last year. And we're a little back now, but this should go pretty quick, but we'll get that out as soon as possible because I know you're going to want to set up as soon as you can. Yeah, I would like to. We have been we have had unusually nice early weather this year. Yeah, yeah, I would really I would like that. I want to thank you. Thank you all so much for the input and for allowing us to do this again. And I know that Steve. I was going to say thank you for coming before the committee and good luck with your project and hope you're wildly successful again. Oh, thank you. I'm going to knock on wood for that. And before before I leave here, I just want would also like to say, though, none of you have asked me yet, and it probably is not my time to speak. But I am a neighbor of John Mayfield's project. And I would like to say that I support it. Well, thank you very much for your support. Thank you, Jesse. OK, thanks, Sean. Thank you. Thank you all. I hope I hope that you are not on the Zoom for too much longer because it's really nice out. Good. Thank you. OK, take care, everyone. OK, the next application is for 54 State Street. And the applicant for Julio's is John Mayfield. And I will ask for people's input and I will read through the criteria, but I will recuse myself from voting since we have an interest in the property. And I will ask John Mayfield to describe his project for the committee. Thanks. Thank you, Steve. Thank you all very much for allowing me to come before you again. As you all know, it's still an interesting time in the in the restaurant business. And our goal with our project is to create an expanded outdoor service area for Julio's approximately seven foot by twenty two foot patio grade running in the parking lot right next to Julio's are running north to south adjacent to 54 State Street. It's a temporary seasonal request as like with Jesse, we would love to build something that was seasonally permanent out there. But there are issues with the parking lot that prevent us from requesting that. So it is definitely a temporary seasonal request for the summer of twenty twenty one to expand outdoor seating during what we hope is the end of this pandemic, which will help us rebuild customer confidence and dining out. We hope to be able to use it in future years, but understand this is a temporary one year application. The area will support three additional tables of four people and is currently within the Everett four foot right of way and another 10 foot right away that exists on the side of the building there. Um, it is the heady lot, so Tim will need to sign off on the project. And I have had some conversations with him. He would like to get a document put together regarding that this is temporary and does not in any way permanently impact any rights of way that might go along with that property. If Meredith, could you put up the pictures of what what we have or that take? Yeah, for me. Usually usually there's a little green box around what I'm sharing. And then every once in a while, it just doesn't happen. So this is the diagram and let me know, John, if you want me to scroll to something different. Sure, I will. So you can see we did meet on site. It's probably a question. Why are you going out to the parking lot? Why not just do a regular parklet? And we would love to accept that there's no parking space in front of Julio's the parking space that we used last year. The you folks were that the city was gracious enough to allow us to use is now being used by Oaks and Evelyn, which makes a lot of sense since they're there and doing well, I think. We met on site. I met with Tom McCartle and McCory line on site and they had some ideas on how to do this. There was a question of we're only going back, basically, if you were thinking about the side of Julio's. If you want to scroll to one of the side views of the building, I've got some pictures in here. I laid out some stanchions so you could see it. And if you just go a little bit further, Meredith. So we're coming out seven foot from the concrete base. If you want to keep going a little bit further. Here we go. There we go. It's sideways, unfortunately, I'm sorry. But oh, there you go. You'll see we're only looking to go back to the end of the windows of the wood in the front. We would not be doing any damage to the wood or touching the wood. It would then be built across in the front. There is an angle from what would be the I'll say the front side of the windows, the north side of the windows going back to the existing patio, and that is at roughly a 45 degree angle. And it's done that way so that there are no issues. That was something that Tom McCartle and Corey suggested because of line of sight for folks. There were some questions about will it impact deliveries? It should not. Most of the trucks of park, they believe that there's still plenty of room for tractor trailers and for two box trucks going down. We're basically going back as far as that first parking sign there. And all the delivery trucks park back in that area and don't come up past it. We would put a no with the city's approval. The no parking sign that's there is just in a sleeve. We would mount that to the outside of the railing so that folks know that they couldn't pull up next to that park for deliveries. We plan to use pressure treated deck board if it was again, if this was a multi year project, we might look at doing something else. Lattice work on the bottom six by sixes for the railing in the front right now. If you look at Julio's that metal railing in the front right there, there is right there would be great merit. Thank you. Yeah. The metal railing that's in front of Julio's has a piece that runs north to south right there. Yes, that would be spun out at approximately it's just about long enough. We'd have to do a little bit of extension with a little bit of metal, but that would be at the angle and that would be our front railing. Then for the back for the rear, we have a piece of that railing left over from some renovations that we're doing inside. And forgive my drawing, I really am horrible at it. But you can see right there, we would have that railing in the front. There would be lattice on the bottom and wood, the six by six posts we plan on bringing up to a height of about seven foot, possibly eight foot above the top of the deck so that and we'll put it, we will put a piece of five quarter across the top of that something that fits across. Or there may be lights on top of that solar powered lights. We haven't decided which way to go yet, or it could be used possibly for some type of very we're using umbrella out there. We have a big 15 foot umbrella, which should provide coverage. So really the plan is to have that there more for a detailed look and to probably put at least two solar lights there. On the rear, we would also be using the same type of railing. That would be squared off and not at an angle like that. Let's see. Yes. In the rear, again, forgive my sense of scale and my ability to draw it was not something I was gifted with. And then on the other side, on the parking lot side, if we can go down a little bit further, we are we have bought some black metal railing and we will be putting a piece of five quarter across the top of that. All this railing has the four inch requirements and nobody can know little kids can hurt themselves there. And we'll be at a height on this side of, I believe it's 42 inches. There will be a little space at the top and bottom and the railing itself is 32. So we'll have a five inch space at the top and then a five inch space at the bottom and then a railing across the top that's going across. I think it's drawn in there or at least on one of the drawings it is. And with that, I'll ask if anyone that's the railing that we'll be using. And the front and the rear. And then we purchased some metal railing for the side. With that, I'll ask if there's an out and the furnishings going on. If you want to go a little lower, that's the lattice work. Those are the chairs that will be outside. They're a silver aluminum and it's I'll call it faux wood. It's basically some type of an engineered product that looks like teak, but will never turn gray and is not nearly as lovely. And then down below, those are the tables we'll be using. They're 32 by 48 and they'll have two people on each side. These are what we purchased last year for when we had our parking lot in the street. Reflectors there, I want to say they're three and a half feet high. They will be in the back of the on the rear side or the south side of the deck in the corner, outer corner, and they'll be on the front side where the 45 degree angle meets the main portion of the deck as a reflector so folks can see them. With that, I'll ask if anyone has any questions. Oh, I was going to ask about reflectors and if you're worried about cars hitting it. Sure, that's always a worry, but just like when I had the park last year, last year with the park outside, I learned something that most people don't know how to park watching them pull in where they were. It was pretty amazing to see. But yeah, we've got the reflectors. I don't think I think with the way it's designed with the 45 degree angle, the city thought it was OK. It was a question that we discussed. So sure, it's not it's not really been designed reviews. It's ours. The city is OK with it. I think it looks like a good design helps out this summer. Thank you very much. I did have some support in my initial design. We we have a relationship with someone who knows something about design who is excusing himself right now, so he did give us a little input on what would make it better from my original thoughts. And he was right. If no other committee members have any comments or questions at this point, what I can do is I will not be able to vote for the project. I am it's abstaining, but I will read through the criteria and then Eric will comment on acceptable or unacceptable or not applicable. So the criteria that apply to the project, number one, exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. Character defining features, finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship they characterize in historic buildings shall be preserved. This one doesn't have anything to do with deterioration and then see any treatment that causes damage to historic materials, including but not limited to physical treatments aren't again don't apply here. So Eric, would you call that acceptable or otherwise? That's that's acceptable. Yeah, I have one quick question that you're going to remove this during the winter, right? Oh, yeah, we'll be following the same guidelines as the parklets. So for this year, although I probably won't get it done as fast as some of the parklets are going to go up, so criteria number two, existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of time, place and use. Any new development shall be differentiated from the old, but shall respect and be compatible with the massing size scale. Architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties. Eric, I would say that's not applicable. OK, number three, proposed landscaping shall be compatible with the neighborhood and the site on which the project is located. And they actually staff found that not applicable. Number four, location and appearance of all utilities, mechanical equipment and fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact or adequately and appropriately screened from public view. That's acceptable, doesn't really screen. I went between not applicable and acceptable. It's a weird, it's a weird clause in here. You know, because it's it's the location of the fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact, basically. And since there's fencing involved, I had to keep it in here. And then lastly, landscaping, screening and screening and site furnishings, projects within the design review overlay district and subject to landscaping requirements in Section 3203 shall consider the following site furnishings, including fencing, seating and other types of site furniture visible from the street or side yards. I would say that that's acceptable. And again, for historic structures, similarly, existing, historic and contributing resources such as street trees, fences, gates, walls, steps, gazebo, walkways, front and side yard pattern shall be retained or restored when impacted in the alteration. And then again, walls and fences shall be compatible with the site and the building and scale traditional materials and design the reflective period. Incompatible acceptable. OK. And that was all the criteria that applied to the Parkland. And I'll call for the vote. OK. So all in favor, please say your name. This is my say yes. Yes, yes. Eric, yes. And Steve, you're abstaining. I'm abstaining. Did Ben vote? No. Yes, I did. I say yes. I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. Well, that's because it didn't go through. Well, that's OK. So the vote is all in favor, so it has passed. Thank you all very, very much. Thank you, John. Good luck with it. Thank you, Eric. Thank you. I'm sorry, Meredith. You want to advise John with the next step is? Yeah, John and I talked earlier today, we can't actually issue the permit until we get the final sign off from Tim Heaney for the Heaney Trust because they're one of the property owners that this is going to be on our owners of property. So, you know, we'll get Steve's recommendation or the recommendation form from Eric slash Steve and we'll be working on the administrative site plan report that you'll get from us. But if you can get whatever you need from Tim, then we'll be able to actually issue the permit. So we'll we'll do what we need to do on this end while you're working on that. But I will. I've talked I talked with Tim today and we discussed some next steps, so hopefully it'll get addressed pretty quickly. Awesome. Meredith and Steve, do you want me to come down and sign the form to I can do that? Either Steve's office or whatever, whatever seems appropriate administratively. I think that sounds smart. I'll be here in the office tomorrow morning and I'll be here on Thursday. OK, or do you want me to stop by your office, Steve, and sign it? Either that or I can swing by your place on my way home and then drop it off in the drop box. I'll just I'll just I'll just come down in the morning and sign it. And and bring it bring it to Meredith or whatever needs to be done. OK, great. Again, thank you all very much. You're welcome, John. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, John. Next on the agenda is review and approval of the minutes from April the 5th. Does anyone have any questions, comments or changes to the minutes? Yeah, this is Martha on the first page at the very bottom. We're talking about the Sarduchies Project and the last sentence there says the impervious surface test came back with the score of a hundred. I don't think we want the word impervious. That means that there is not penetrable. And I think it's exactly the opposite. I'll I'll look back at what was said. Um, because maybe maybe the they actually said that when they meant the opposite. Come on. I'll I'll take a look. Yeah, I do remember Carol saying that the score was a hundred. But but it was. Very paint that means it's 100 percent impervious. That's a bad idea. That's exactly what we don't want. Well, actually, the engineer's drawings show that it it was perfectly acceptable because of the different layers built into the design. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's one of those things where if they actually said impervious test. It should say not impervious. Yeah, so I'll I'll I'll fix that as as it makes sense. Because sometimes even if what they say in the meeting minutes, you know, what they said in the meeting isn't quite what they meant. Sometimes it's hard to tweak it for the minutes versus just clarifying in the actual permit that's issued. Thank you for that. I think they're fine. OK, do I hear a motion to approve the minutes with that change? I move to approve the minutes with that change. All second. All in favor of the minutes with that change. Speak your names. I'm going to abstain because I wasn't there. Martha, yes, I wasn't there either. Ben says yes. And Steve says yes. So we have enough to approve. Does anyone in the committee or Meredith have any other business? Meredith, I'm assuming the City Council approved our grant. Yes. So City Council approved the grant agreement for the certified local government grant for the design review. Sorry, guidelines, brain short circuiting. City Manager was out all last week, so he hasn't been able to sign it. Once I get that signed version, I'll be sending it to the state. And once we've got it fully approved from the state, we'll be getting RFP out for bids on consultants or proposals from consultants to do that work. So we will keep you all updated, hopefully at the very soon. HPC will be meeting to review responses to those RFPs and we'll get going on working on those guidelines. Now, I can't remember the budget, but did you put in a time donated time or can we add it for the design review? That we could throw in. I hadn't included that in there as part of the budget, but I bet we could. Yeah, that would be good. Yeah, I bet we can because they'd be considered experts as well in their field. I hadn't thought of that. None of us had thought about that when I was doing the grant proposal. That I just thought about it because we're in front of design review. So once we've got the agreement signed, we'll count time from DRC members and HPC members. I think we can do both. Certainly one of my goals is to make these as useful to design review as possible. For sure. That's all I have. Ben, I've got to ask where you are. I'm on my back deck at my house. Oh, I don't know where you live, but that's really neat. No one has anything else to add at this point. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? I'll move, Eric. That's great, Ben. Did you see the river, Eric? I can see the river from where I'm sitting, which is really nice. Where are you? Street, what street? North Franklin Street. Wow. That's that's yeah, that's cool. This the piece of property that I'm on here, I found on Craigslist many years ago and it described itself as bordering North Street and the North Branch of the Winooski River. And I said, that doesn't exist, but if it does exist, it's a really amazing piece of property and it is an amazing piece of property. Yeah, cool. So do I hear a second for adjournment? This is Martha, I'll second it. All in favor of adjournment, speak your names. Martha, yes. Eric, yes. Liz, yes. Ben, yes. And Steve, yes. So meeting is adjourned. I'll have a nice evening. Thank you.