 Good morning. Welcome to Law Across the Sea. My name is Mark Shklav and I am the host of Law Across the Sea. We present programs about lawyers, strange as that sounds, and many lawyers who have practices that take them across the sea. And law is not just about books, not just about court cases. Law is multifaceted. Law is just like life. There's lots of things that we can learn in life and law that will help us out in dealing with people. And today our program is called the Secret of Ping Pong Diplomacy. Secrets of Ping Pong Diplomacy. That may sound like a strange title, but I think by the end of the program you'll understand. My guest is Bruce Zhang. He is a lawyer from Suzhou in China. He has an extensive background in sports. And after his graduation from Beijing Sports University, he decided that he wanted to become a lawyer. Right, Bruce? So welcome to our programs. Thank you. That's my pleasure. Good to have you here. Now, this title, Secrets of Ping Pong Diplomacy. You and I have talked a little bit about this, and we've had some fun talking about this. What are we talking about? What are the secrets of ping pong diplomacy? Secret of ping pong diplomacy, actually, it was 1971. Actually, it was a very special period for Chinese people. At that time, Chinese nation of ping pong tea went to Japan to attend the World Championships Competition. In Tokyo, they met American ping pong players. Actually, they got a very good relationship with each other. American ping pong players applied to China. They wanted to visit China. Just let me interrupt for a minute. At this time, the relationship between China and the United States was not as cordial or as friendly as it was. No, not at all. At that time, actually, China didn't open the door to the United States. But it was a very surprise. They applied to visit China, and it's approved by Chairman Mao. Actually, Chairman Mao noticed that. And where comes American ping pong players to visit China? So after a couple of months, they went to China, had a visit. Actually, it was the first time for American delegation to visit China. So at that time, I think China opened the door to the United States. And it had to do with sport in a way? Yeah, sport. They played ping pong together, and they showed the professional technique. And actually, after one year, the President Nixon, the American President, visited Beijing. That was a big thing. Yeah, that's a very huge event. And also, Chinese ping pong players went to the United States to have a visit. So in those days, I remember those days, and the atmosphere before the ping pong diplomacy was that we were almost fighting each other, China and the U.S. We were not friends. Yeah, it's a historic reason. And so this interesting game of ping pong allowed friendships to be made amongst players, which kind of opened the doors to both countries. Yes. It's just like, you know, a Chinese old saying, we always say, friends first, competition second, especially for the professional players. When they attended some world competitions, they forced the purpose to make friends, not to achieve the gold medals. And they did. They did. At that time, they made a lot of friends from all over the world. And at that time, no one expected Nixon, the American President, to go to China. No, it was a very big surprise also. And OK, so that is kind of the open the door diplomacy that ping pong played. Yeah, ping pong. But tell me about sports in general in China and how important they are to relationships. And you mentioned friends first. Yeah. And explain how that works with developing relationships with China. OK. Actually, sports are very important for Chinese people. I think it's also very important for people all over the world. And when we get a relationship with other countries in sports area, we always send very, very good coaches to other countries. For example, ping pong coaches, badminton coaches. We send a lot of coaches to other countries to improve their professional techniques. And I believe when people have a very good relationship, countries will have very good relationships. And so it's beyond just playing a game. Yeah. It is kind of a underlying way to make friends that's not out there as active diplomacy, if you will. But it's kind of underneath where you learn to be a friend through the sports. And then what follows is maybe development, the economy, or more relationships that are not necessarily sports, but they help develop the economy. They help develop the country. Yeah. I think from individual friendship to business friendship, also to diplomacy friendship. It's like take a step, step by step. And in the step by step process, China progressed in a way also from that first ping pong visit. Yeah. And seemed to open its doors more and more. And that also helped with the development of law in China. Yeah. How did that progress? So when we have activities with people from other countries, I think law is very important because every country has different law. So in every country we should follow the different laws. And when we get as a relationship more and more, so law definitely will be involved. But the sports is the common factor. The sports is the thing that brings everybody together. Just like the ping pong diplomacy, the sports gives you something that everybody can talk about, right? I mean, you've traveled a lot in the United States and you've seen various types of sports activities. Yes. You've met a lot of lawyers. Yes. And do you have the occasion when you do that to talk about the different sports in China and in the United States? Yeah. I've talked a lot, especially basketball and soccer. Okay. You know, we have a very famous basketball player, Yuan Ming. He was a successful basketball player in the United States. I think he was drafted in 2002 as the number one player by NBA. And he had a very successful career in the United States. And by the way, today is his birthday. Today is his birthday? Today is his birthday. Oh, no. I heard it on the news as I was coming here. Oh, actually, a couple of days ago, he became a member of basketball, four of him, fame. It's a very great honor for him. And he's very young. Very young. Just 34 or 33. What is he doing now? What is his position in China? No, he's kind of a businessman. He is the boss of a CBA basketball club. China Basketball Association. Basketball Association, right. And this club is located in Shanghai. And he is a Shanghainese. Oh, actually. He's the boss of the club. And also he invested lots of companies and also by some stock market. So through sports, he has done many, many things. Yes. And I'm sure he has lots of lawyers that work for him, right? Definitely. He has a very good reputation in China. So it's easier for him to develop his business in China. And also he has a team, including some lawyers, to deal with some legal issues for him. Okay. Now, just curious, does he have his own private company? Or does he use law firms? And does he have in-house lawyers? Do you know? I think he has his own companies. Not just, not only one, I think several. And he also, he is a shareholder of some listed companies. And he has a team called Yang team, including some attorneys. And that's like an economic development team. Right. Just work for him. I see. I see. And also including some American attorneys. Really? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Wow. He is very successful and it's meaningful in China. Very successful. For somebody like that who made it in the United States. Right. And, you know, I guess sports seem to be important in China. Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. Actually, he achieved the reputation in the United States and effected the Chinese people. And I suppose it's very important for Chinese people. Is there, like when Chinese children are growing up, are they required to take sports in school? Yeah, yeah. It is required from one grade, one grade. First grade? Yeah, first grade, yeah. And is it just general sports or all types of sports? General sports, including general sports also, including some basketball and soccer. You can choose. And is this a new requirements or has this been Chinese culture for a long time with respect to sports? Has it always been important or is it something that's relatively new? I think it was required long, long ago and it's like a tradition. Because we also have lots of traditional Chinese sports. Like what? Like martial arts. Tai Chi, something like that. And also dancing, Chinese dancing. Very traditional and most of Chinese people have a habit to practice one kind of sports. Okay, now one thing you mentioned is that Mao Zedong was supportive of ping pong diplomas. Yeah. Did he have a philosophy about sports also? Did he have a feeling about that? I think he was very good at swimming. He used to swim across the Yangtze River. It's the biggest river in China. I think it's the third biggest river of the world. Actually, it's very hard to cross the river. Because of the current? Yeah. He did and for several times. When he was quite old, more than 70 years old. So actually he encouraged all Chinese people to do sports to improve and make your body strong. Yeah. Okay. Well, we're going to take a short break now. Okay. And then we'll come back and talk a little bit more about sports and how it affects China and law. Okay. All right. Welcome to thinktechhawaii.com. This is Johnson Choi, your host. My focus is Asia in reveal. We talk about interesting subjects in Asia. Be sure to check the thinktech.com website on the next topic. Thank you. Hello, I'm Crystal from Quok Talk. I've got a new show here. You've got to tune in. Check out my topics on sensitive provocative female issues. So Tuesday mornings, 10 o'clock. Don't miss it. It's going to be fun and dangerous. Hi. I'm Kili Akina, president of the Grass Root Institute. I'd love you to join us every week Mondays at 2 o'clock PM for Ehana Kako. Let's work together. We report every week on the good things going on in our state, as well as the better things that can go on in the future. We have guests covering everything from the economy, the government and society. See you Mondays on Ehana Kako at 2 o'clock PM. Until then, I'm Kili Akina. Aloha. We are back with Law Across the Sea with Bruce Zhang. And we're talking not strictly about law today. We're talking about how sports affects life and law. And Bruce Zhang is our guest. And Bruce is a lawyer from Suzhou, China. And is a graduate of Beijing Sports University. And first of all, Bruce, what is Beijing Sports University? What is that about? Beijing Sports University is the best sports university in China. And it's located in Beijing. And also, lots of students from the Beijing Sports University attended the Olympic Games. And some of them achieved the medals of the Olympic Games. And you were always interested in sports, and that's what directed you first to sports? Yeah, actually when I was eight years old, I started to practice martial arts. And I practiced for a long time until I graduated from the university. I was very interested in sports. And then you decided to go to law? Yeah, actually when I graduated from the university, I thought I should be not only physical strong, but also mentally strong. So I needed both. So I decided to choose the law as my major to study again. And eventually became a lawyer? Yeah. And now you combine your love of sports and law at times? Right, right. Actually I think sports, I have a sports background. And it is very helpful for me to be a lawyer. How's that? Because we have physical strength. We can keep starting all the time. And also we have very, as a player, we have very good communication skills, social skills with other players. So it's helpful for me to start my career as a lawyer. And also I would think with clients and with other lawyers, even American lawyers or foreign lawyers to China, that sports connection would be helpful. Yeah, very helpful. When I went to the mainland of the United States, I always go to the east coast and the west coast. And we talk about sports all the time, especially the American football, American basketball, American baseball. So that's very popular in the United States. Do you have any American teams that you like, football teams or basketball teams, anything that are your favorites? I think a basketball team is Lakers, Los Angeles Lakers, because the very famous player, Kobe Bryant. And also a football club is Green Bay Pack. Green Bay Pack. It's just like from a small town, but really powerful and encouraged everyone to achieve success. Good, good. I'm glad you said that. I like them too, as you know. You mentioned that some of your friends in the sports university at Beijing went on to the Olympics. Yeah. Now, are the Olympics important to China? I know they are, but I'm trying to understand why. Why are the Olympics so important? I think Olympic is very important for Chinese people. Because Olympic games are just like a huge stage for the world. When you have a very good performance in Olympic, it means you show your power to all over the world. Also you show your friendship to the world. And as a historic reason, Chinese people really want to show ourself to all over the world, let our world to know Chinese people. So that's the reason why it's very important. Let me close up on what you were saying about the secrets of ping-pong diplomacy. Sports is a way to communicate that is not so outwardly political. And it helps you make friends. Yeah. And it shows who you are. Yes. And with respect to the Olympics, we're just completed. What was the Chinese reaction to those Olympics? What did China do? And what was the feeling in China about those Olympics? If Chinese players, athletes, can get a very good performance in Olympic, Chinese people will be very happy. But if bad performance, they will be upset. So actually it's very important for the individuals. How does it work in China if you are successful in the Olympics? For example, if an athlete achieves a very good performance, for example, gets the medals from the Olympic Games, they will get the bonus from government. Monetary. Money. And also they can get money from the sponsors. I see. But sometimes they can get some properties. Real estate. Yeah, real estate. And I guess in the United States, if you're successful, you get advertisement contracts. Do attorneys take part in negotiations for these athletes in China? Yeah. I think the attorneys are involved in those activities. Because when athletes sign a contract with sponsors, they need professional lawyers to draft as a contract. And in the United States, we have agents. In other words, people that represent athletes. Sometimes they're attorneys, sometimes they're not. Do they have the same thing in China? I think it's similar. For very famous athletes, they also have an agent. An agent also a licensed agent. And sometimes they have a lot of background. Especially when they want to play overseas. For example, Yao Ming. Yao Ming has an American attorney. An American attorney to help him. And do American attorneys or agents, do they go to China to look for prospects? I think so. I think so. In China, what type of sports? You mentioned martial arts, basketball. What are the most popular sports in China? I think currently the most popular sport is soccer. Because soccer is the most popular all over the world. Except in the United States. Except in the United States. It's popular, but not as popular as football. Yeah, I noticed. But really, really popular in China. Soccer. And again, that goes along with the secrets of ping-pong diplomacy. I mean, when you said soccer is the most popular all around the world, there's another connection there for Chinese all around the world. And is the government supportive in China of soccer to develop those relationships? Because it seems to me, that follows from ping-pong. From the ping-pong diplomacy, you can have soccer diplomacy. Yeah, I think for two different countries, we use different ways. For the United States, we have ping-pong diplomacy. But for other countries, maybe the Bantaminton or sports, or other sports, or basketball. For example, in Asian countries, we always send the Bantaminton coaches to other countries to make a relationship between two nations. Okay, and are there any potential of things like American football in China? Is that at all out there? Or do they ever play it? Do kids ever play it, or do they know about it? Or is it not that popular? Yeah, I think American football is not so popular in China. I think the reason is, Chinese parents think it's very aggressive. It's easier to get injured in American football. So they're afraid of attending American football. So that's the reason. But actually, it's safe. In my opinion, it's safe. Well, I understand. In China, culturally too, I think parents want to protect their children. And there is a very family-oriented culture in China that I've seen. And so I can understand that. Of course, Americans are the same, but we do like our football. We do like the football, and so there is a cultural difference there. There is something there. I think it's a different culture. American kids, American parents want their kids to be more brave. But Chinese parents want their kids to be more careful. So that's the difference. So for Chinese kids, they always choose ping-pong, badminton, because it's not aggressive. You play individual. But in the United States, they always choose American football, baseball, and basketball. More key work. Okay, but you've also told me that Chinese like basketball. And we've seen that. Wow, seven foot six inches. Yeah, yeah, seven, six. Are there other Chinese basketball players that are going to be in the future coming to the United States? Actually, currently one of basketball players named Yi Jianlian. He signed the contract with Lakers. What was his name? Yi Jianlian. Yi Jianlian, right. He signed with Lakers. Yeah, with Lakers. It's about eight million dollars contract. It's a big contract. Yeah, when will he start? Actually, he will start this season. I think after September. Okay, and in China there are professional teams also, professional sports teams? Yeah, we have CBA, China Basketball Association. And soccer. Yes. Are they professional? Professional. Okay, and they all employ attorneys. I think in every club, they have several attorneys to deal with some legal issues. And do they ever travel outside of China? Do they ever come to the United States? I think not a lot in the United States, but it's a tri-word Asian-European lot. And again, part of the same type of diplomacy I suspect. It's out there to make friends and to learn to get along with one another. And you send the sports teams, seems like a good strategy. Do American teams come to China? Always. So popular is basketball player. They have summer break. And in summer break, usually they go to United States. Of course, one reason is for the sponsors. They want to have sponsors to do advertisement. And another thing is it is popular in China. So effective Chinese people, especially Chinese kids. So in other words, it goes both ways. The ping-pong diplomacy has China and United States both thinking along the same way. We're going to use sports to help develop relationships, friendships. And guess what? We get lawyers involved along the way also, which is something good. Now, we're going to close right now. But before we do, would you mind showing me... I know you're a Tai Chi expert. Yeah, I've been practicing for a long time. I don't want to put you on the spot. Can you show me... Okay, I just sit here, I'll show you. Sit there and show me a Tai Chi. Okay, something like that. It's a very slow movement, but actually it's powerful. Thank you very much, Bruce. My pleasure. I enjoyed our talk today.