 You're ready to go back to work. I was remembering when they used to be paid for agendas. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Hold on. Let me wait and give a two more minutes. Has she reached out at all? Timory is recusing herself because she has a contract with the Housing Matters group. Oh, OK. So she will not be joining us this evening. That's fine. It's not a vote or anything anyway, so we didn't even need a quorum. We debated about whether we need a quorum hold the meeting, fine. Okay so the meeting has begun without Commissioner Gordon. Are there any statements of disqualification? I'll just note for Commissioner Gordon that she is recusing herself from this item because of a contract that she has with Housing Matters. Okay all right with that we'll turn to the staff for a presentation on the Coral Street plan. Are we gonna do a roll call? I knew I was reading about something. Thank you Sarah. Let's have a roll call. All right Commissioner Dawson. Here. Commissioner Conway. Here. Commissioner Paulmuth. Here. Commissioner Maxwell. Here. Commissioner Kennedy. Here. And for the record Commissioner Gordon and Commissioner Missity Miller are not present. All right so with that we'll turn to General Business, the Coral Street visioning report. Oh just point of order just statements of disqualification and oral communication. I think we have to run through all of those. We need oral communication but that's fine. So we did statements of disqualification. Are there any further statements of disqualification? I don't think we need to have public comment but Commissioner Dawson seems interested. Would anyone like to speak on items that are not on tonight's agenda for oral communications? Seeing none we'll go ahead with the general business. Hi good evening everyone my name's Sarah Noisy and with me here is Justin Duel. Justin you are now live to the room. Joining us from East Bay so Justin is an architect with Dallin architecture. He's been working with us on the vision the Coral Street visioning report and so we're gonna talk it through with your commission tonight and starting off with a little bit of background. So Coral Street as most of you I'm sure are aware everyone in the room is probably aware has been a long-standing campus for homeless services in the city of Santa Cruz and the county of Santa Cruz. Recently the city acquired 125 Coral Street which is the site of the Seberg metals property they're currently leasing it back but we are interested in thinking about how that site can be used to augment the services that are currently provided in the area. Part of the city's homelessness response in recent years has included the creation of the homelessness response action plan which was adopted about a year ago and one of the action items that came out of that report in the topic area of permanent affordable and supportive housing was an action to work with partner agencies to deliver a plan for Coral Street campus and navigation center and acquire needed properties so that action is really kind of what spurred our efforts here around creating this very high-level vision to guide housing creation in the area service and infrastructure investments that the city county and partner agencies and organizations may be looking to do in the next decades so we're gonna walk you through that a little bit so this is a map of the area that we studied for the purposes of this visioning exercise this shows the property ownership so the sites that are shown in purple are currently owned by the city of Santa Cruz housing matters owns the sites that are shown in blue and they are leasing currently the sites shown in green on some of those they have an option to purchase and then also of note are the three parcels on the western side of our study area that are not currently owned by a partner or the city those are held by other private parties and not controlled by any any of the service providers of the city so why are we here tonight with the planning commission so this effort at creating a vision for this area was very focused on community participation and Justin's gonna talk through our community outreach process the charrette that we went through the meetings we had with service providers that are out there working on that campus and providing services to really understand you know what their needs were but we wanted to come and hear also from your commission provide you with an opportunity to participate in adding to this vision shaping this vision we wanted to provide another opportunity for public comment to get into the record and then any of this feedback that we received tonight will have an opportunity to incorporate that before we go to council where this will also be sort of a similar informational item there are no binding changes there are no land use amendments that are necessarily a part of this current effort and so the actions are not formal actions we don't require a motion tonight we're just here to kind of have a discussion if there's a motion that your commission wishes to pass of course you have that privilege and so with that sort of setting the stage I'm gonna pass over to Justin if I can ever figure out which of my buttons advances the slides there we go all right Justin I think Sarah can everyone hear me like coming across well okay thank you thanks Sarah thank you to the commission for hearing us this evening I'd like to just kind of walk you through a little bit of the process and some of the outcomes and results that we came to through the course of this process we started in the fall of last year our first effort was in our internist was was to to meet with a group of current service providers in the area including housing matters and some others and gather an initial round of feedback this helped us to kind of set the stage and understand both the sort of that with the current state of the campus and the actions that some of these service providers are are currently taking but also some of the future needs and some of the some of the essentially the needs that we'd be seeking to to provide some sort of vision or guidance for future activities or projects that might one day when they come to light so with that information that we had gathered in December when we undertook our first community outreach process and this was in the form of a charrette kind of walk through the timeline year first then we can flip to some of the following slides so that was early December it was essentially a we call it a charrette it was very broad kind of information gathering community outreach process we came out of that with a lot of great information that sort of informed us into a phase of exploration and actually looking physically at parcels and potential development opportunities in the form that they could one day take we sort of worked through those met again with that service provider group gathered an initial or I guess a secondary round of feedback from them and made some relatively minor revisions to the the concepts that we had initially worked through and came back in February for a second round of presentation and feedback gathering from the community and so where that puts us today is in the end of March area where we have a draft report prepared and we're moving forward into a final report feedback and report period I think next slide this is just a couple of images from that first initial charrette process we presented a series of project examples case studies and kind of building typologies to help inform the general audience about some of the alternatives and options that we had to discuss and things that could potentially come out of a process like this on some of these development future development opportunities what we did in in terms of kind of gathering feedback from this was to go around tables we had some focused topic areas on transportation urban design architecture and services services protection land use transportation services and urban design industry escape so we we set up we set up groups we kind of talked through a series of predefined questions and we're able to gather a really great round of feedback from the public that we took forward and analyzed before we physically looked at the the potential for the the parcels I think we have a couple of the the results of those we analyzed the the key topics that have come out of these services in particular the need for more services was the top item that came out of this initial round transportation had a number of different permutations that it took in the form of pedestrian safety shuttles and alternative transportation means we looked at a number of different specific service opportunities such as additional hygiene additional counseling the need for simply for safe storage for belongings and so all these things that came out of this this first round of feedback we cataloged the the same set of questions that we guided participants through in the in-person survey we also posed online and to sort of increase our outreach we came back from the online survey and we saw and for the most part we saw a lot of the same results come out of that we saw in particularly the emergence of a really strong community centered around the Santa Cruz rehearsal studios and that was you can see right sort of right in the center of our word club there that was really one of the the key elements that we took away from the online surveys that there really is a strong community and a support base for that business and that business as it continues to operate in the project area so the finishing out kind of the process we'll go over what the actual development yield studies results were in a minute but we came back to the community after we had done those and presented the presented the the results we did a brief recap of the process and and this was really to kind of present the ideas and see what kind of secondary feedback and response came out of that we heard a number of different items come out of that some we had heard in the first initial round some were strong reactions to some of the the proposals that that we presented there was some of the some of the some of the key takeaways that we took from that second round were again transportation but primarily in the form of parking really heard as a result of some of the concepts that we had presented that it had really not solved it which is a really tricky balance to strike in terms of how much land we actually dedicate to something like parking as a trade-off for something like more services it's a really really difficult balance to strike but but we did hear loud and clear that second time around that that was that was something that did not appear had really been addressed adequately so we took that as a key takeaway accessibility to the project and to the services really really emerged as another another another key item and again we heard about pedestrian safety and sort of management of parking and public spaces as something that we should really further address in any way possible um so I think with that we'll talk a little bit about um what the actual concepts that came out of our field study uh tests were um this is just a quick look at the sort of uh the extent of the existing um Housing Matters campus there's the the Rebelly Family Shelter is is there and in full operation the day services building um with the dining hall dental loft loft shelter and hygiene bay currently in operation and a number of pallet shelters that were actually kind of an emergence of of the uh the pandemic which actually had kind of a nice outcome I think from what we understood was that there was a sort of difference in um applicability of housing and um sort of a sense of community that those those created that as you'll see in a minute we kind of keyed off in some of our proposals we're showing at this point in this graphic um the future location of the Harvey West studios project which um has not has not um begun construction yet but we're considering that sort of a key component of what the current campus is because it's it will immediately be be constructed and then there are across the street at 801 river there's a a beautiful Victorian rehab project that Housing Matters has undertaken it's produced seven additional housing units and the Coral Street Plaza three of those four parcels that are currently under lease with the option to buy considering that as a the current part of the the current campus so so first we took a look at what we're calling the key opportunity sites the first and foremost being the seabird metals property at 125 Coral Street the site of the former river street shelter which is kind of a little bit of a missing tooth in the sort of overall campus which has recently been closed and isolated for demolition so there's a future opportunity with that parcel and then those three sites that are are currently under lease across the street um at 112 through 116 Coral Street so at 125 Coral Street um we looked at uh a mixed use multifamily building uh we did not um we did not get too specific with thinking about what sort of population the future this might serve when we're looking at the residential component of the site we looked at essentially just the upper floors being voice for residential it could take the form of permanent supportive housing it could take the the shape of family housing or senior housing depending on what that ultimate population is it would could flex into a number of different you know counts or or actual buildouts but we did look a lot at the lower levels of that plan um in ways that some version of non-residential spaces could be integrated um first option looked at at providing as much parking as we really could parking scenario uh the second option eliminated parking within the building itself that adding additional residential and uh programmable space for services or some future use the third option there really expanded that about as much as we could from a um kind of conventional uh service space provision and then option four which has emerged as our sort of preferred option uh looks at um actually integrating a navigation center into that building footprint and so I think we'll explain that we can just a little bit more detail what that one could be if if we were to actually um the next slide there is would introduce maybe a second floor um and the area shown in in that kind of orange color there would open itself to an actual navigation center program um it would require a little bit of an additional set of of access and uh circulation components of its own to work between those two floors but this was really a result of the um the direction that was given by council to explore uh the expansion of the squirrel street plaza into to specifically include uh something in the navigation center model um that that I think we've seen first in place in the city of san francisco so this was that um this was that uh quote preferred option uh residential lobby and a real expansion of um service provider space oriented internally to the campus so that would be something that would be accessed um around through the through the main gate coming off the coral street adjacent to the revenue family shelter and then the sort of forward facing component of this project at the ground level would be this navigation center and so it would be uh that would be what we would sort of consider our outward face uh facing coral street and add a different sort of programmatic element um to this to the streetscape along coral street and then similar to the other the other projects uh nearly 14 000 square feet per floor uh of residential uses and that would presumably be four to five floors of that residential use um above the the two ground level floors the river street shelter we looked at kind of two options that could essentially be a phase sort of a proposal um keying off of what was taking place there uh already in the um distribution of pallet shelters we looked at which has actually kind of a really nice feel when you go and you experience it it has the feel of kind of a village there and we thought um you know we could really kind of capitalize on that and build on that um by expanding that village creating sort of a common core open space in a in a sort of very low low cost low barrier way to increase the amount of housing with um you know a very very low expense compared to what would be a big um larger building solution so this could be considered an interim solution this could be considered something that would provide some sort of staging area during the construction of harby west um or it could could simply provide sort of a uh an enhanced uh village of these uh these pallet shelters um integrated a little bit of a kind of a front door for the campus coming through the main gate um and in a community space that relates to the existing community space outside of the uh the family shelter in a sort of uh an option two which could be a future phase or it could be the preferred phase or you know there are a lot of different ways that this whole plan could take shape over time um but but we really looked at you know what a what a um a more the most efficient use of space would be would would more than likely be a sort of a similar um potentially podium style building to what we showed at 125 coral street and this would provide some sort of um some amount of of programal space for services or other uses at the ground floor again kind of oriented toward this um kind of core community open space that we created um and then looking at um several floors of residential uses um above looking at the the sites across the street at coral street plaza uh the the buildings highlighted here in blue are the ones currently um under lease by housing matters uh together it's about 7 000 square feet of space the sort of option one that we talked about really is just it's it's a very low um yeah low cost or efficient way to come in and essentially we're saying just reprogram that space but um through either tenant improvements or some sort of rehab um find a way to dedicate that space to additional program where currently use a lot for um kind of staging storage and and there's not a lot of active use going out of that space um but there's quite quite a bit of square footage there that could be programs we really looked at just what would be the potential for that um if we were to just make better use of that space it would be about 7 000 square feet uh some of the numbers that we heard from working through service providers range anywhere from um maybe 5 000 square feet to 15 000 square feet that was kind of a core target for saying we really have the need for this much space so this could put a dent in that it's in and of itself maybe not enough um all by itself to provide what the ultimate need might be for some of those groups um but it is a pretty good amount of square footage um and that would be you know just the the easiest low hanging fruit way to approach that would be you know let's just let's um let's actually rehabilitate that and get some um some core use happening in that space the second option and this looks at kind of the idea that um if the navigation center were not to become a part of the 125 coral street project um but we wanted to find another location for it um there would be some sort of a version of the uh the 112th coral street parcel which um could actually take down a piece of that building uh look at a way to re uh reconfigure parking and access into the site um the parking area um and actually come up with about 16 000 square feet of um what would be a navigation center um alternative location um across the street over here and and um still preserve a little bit of additional programmable space in the um the portions of the building at 114 and 116 coral street and then the the second uh sort of layer that that we looked at or what we're calling future opportunity sites um primarily consisting of the the parcels that there really is no no control um either by the by the city or the service providers but um takes into account the fact that this is really a vision plan for an entire project area um and uh kind of encourage ourselves to look at the entirety of the project area just from a future potential um we wanted to consider that the the entire project area and what could happen if all these sites were to someday come into play um I think the first one that we looked at was if we were to be able to one day add 118 coral street to the other three parcels there and and assemble all those uh those pieces together there's the potential to do a um the larger uh again here we studied kind of a podium type building that could have some parking available at the ground floor um one of the the pieces that we heard through um I think primarily it was through our second community outreach but we heard it more or less kind of along the way that um some form of an actual commercial space or commercial use of real use that could not only serve the sort of the coral street population but also um provide it's sort of either a destination or asset for people who are coming from outside of the project area could be a could be a cafe could be a sandwich shop could be something that actually provided a little bit of a commercial space kind of a third place um gathering and and we looked at a way that at the ground level that could integrate with some sort of uh pedestrian plaza outdoor space um that could serve as as kind of a um a bit of a destination um so this was really looking at sort of a um a commercial residential mixed use opportunity that um was a little bit different from the others which were um more or less combining um service provider use with residential use so it was a sort of different um different take on a mixed use building for this area. 803 River Street is the parcel adjacent to the current Victorian renovation that is being worked on really it's not a lot to do with this parcel we wanted to consider it but uh sort of based on the adjacency of parcels next to it the ability to assemble this uh being being with an adjacent parcel being relatively limited uh the thought was that it could more or less replicate what had happened next door at 801 River and um be kind of a a smaller scale finer grained building that could contain several units but um we're kind of in the model of what what has happened next door at we looked at 129 Coral Street um and this was this was in response to what we had heard about parking really being a big primary concern not just for visitors but for um for staff and so we looked initially at um this one which has kind of a um a bit dead-end nature just because of its limited frontage this would more than likely be some sort of assigned parking scenario but kind of a little dead end site like this doesn't work really well for public open parking but so this this this in this option one could be something that would be maybe served would be staff parking or assigned visitor parking an option two for this that we just took a look at be something like a tiny home village these would be maybe a step up from a pallet shelter these would be things like might actually contain a little bit of a a kitchenette and actually individual living capabilities in this kind of a tiny home a tiny home um building typology and we looked at providing a little bit of forward-facing community open space sort of semi-public semi-private space that that could provide a little bit more another thing we heard that there was kind of a lack of gathering spaces community open spaces places to be able to to come together in in sort of an informal way so this was one opportunity to provide something like that as a part of a future potential concept I think the last the last site that we took a look at was 133 Fern Street this parcel has dual access both from Coral Street and from Fern so the first thought kind of addressing again the parking need that we heard multiple times was to take a look at this maybe being an opportunity for some public parking that's not a dead end lot it has access from both sides so we took a look essentially at the capacity that could have this could you know either be a be an interim solution in a way to land bank this parcel and do something while we waited for something you know potentially longer term to materialize so this was just kind of one take on what what the capacity could be if we were to use it for that because of the kind of that the proportions and dimensions of the site doesn't particularly lend itself to a residential use so an alternative future use for this parcel could be looking at that you know a multi-story programmable space building for service providers could could yield at least 12,000 square feet on two floors and this is again kind of trying to target that that number that we heard from service providers as a potential for some some additional programmable space in the area the last thing we kind of did was was to take a look at the the potential along Coral Street for sort of urban design streetscape improvements um kind of looking at and um kind of a core identity element potentially happening at the um the the entry to the existing campus this could be done pretty simply with things like um you know just just paint lighting to kind of create a community landmark and and serve as a little bit of an entry monument to the campus to the core campus itself um that's what we kind of see in the in the center there um looked at the potential to narrow Coral Street there's currently no uh on street parking allowed and and as a result it just feels it feels kind of wide and vast as you go down Coral Street so there's certainly the potential and you know keeping enough space there's an opportunity for through traffic um but the ability to you know potentially uh pull the pull the curbs in capture some of that space within the right of way um both by adding trees to soften the streetscape but maybe even something like community garden pockets between those trees um and and sort of put together all the concepts that we looked at in a way that you kind of got a sense for what the future of both you know kind of semi-public and semi-private space might be to create um you know a real sense of there being a community and some some activity and gathering both formal and formal spaces uh along Coral Street to create a real kind of sense of a destination of the place. Thanks Justin um okay so kind of finishing off with those future sites I think um leads us right into implementation and phasing and I would just like to emphasize that site control is one of the most important pieces in terms of determining our next steps and so just to say again we don't control any of those future sites so those really are very like hypothetical potential scenarios right um what we do control uh is the all of those sites that are shown in blue on that initial property ownership map so most significantly is 125 Coral which is the site the city has most recently acquired um we do think that that will be the first one to redevelop sort of following 119 which is already entitled and just recently got um fully funded so um we're expecting that um construction to hopefully get kicked off by the end of the year um but so next in line will be 125 Coral and um so that's why for that site we actually do kind of have a preferred development option that includes the navigation center so we're trying to be responsive to that um direction that came out of the atrap and um like find a location to that can accommodate sort of that um you know 15,000-ish square feet that you would want for a use like that um then we kind of then we expect River Street Shelter will be sort of the next in line to develop and we have sort of two options about how that might happen and as Justin mentioned that's going to depend on the funding that's going to depend on the needs for the community that's going to depend on um institutional capacity to sort of manage some kind of development project or accommodate additional pallet shelters or some other third use that might need to kind of come in there in the interim so um as Justin mentioned also Coral Street Plaza can be used as is so any redevelopment that might happen there would have to involve the Santa Cruz rehearsal studio they are co-owners of that parking facility in that location they've been very clear that they intend to continue operating their business in that location so um if anything were to change on that site to significantly redevelop any part of it they would have to be part of that conversation um so in terms of land use actions um the state law actually allows for um several of the uses that we've considered here to be um created through a ministerial review process which would essentially mean that there's not um a public hearing required they could kind of go straight to applying for a building permit and they would go through um just uh plant like a zoning plan check review in terms of planning um those are all summarized in the report in section four in more detail the city may opt to go ahead and redesignate um the 125 parcel to um the cc zone our community commercial zone because it just kind of gives us more options and it does minimize this um potential um conflict with the general plan that even though it's allowed under the state law the general plan kind of discourages it and it's just a little awkward so um to be determined exactly how what we would proceed on that um and then the other thing I want to mention about implementation and phasing is that um parking is a problem that we can that we kind of need two solutions we need to solve it on paper and then we need to like solve it in real life and um state laws do give us lots of options for like solving it on paper right the state density bonus law um sort of a can eliminate parking requirements at least for housing uses there are um some other tools and in under state law that really reduce parking requirements and so that kind of solves the paper problem around parking but it doesn't address at the on the ground issue so that is something that um any development that comes in here is going to need to grapple with um so there are several tools that could potentially be available and it's kind of in order of preference in order of like um usability those would be to encourage require not encourage require those new developments to use transportation demand management tools so providing transit passes providing extra bike parking providing you know shared you know a bike share facility at that location to reduce the number of cars that are driving to the site um we could pursue additional um the city could partner with um the other agencies out there to find more off-site parking agreements so there are some already in place some off-site parking agreements for staff and um people who are staying like long term on the site so we could pursue more of those with other businesses in the area then another option would be to partner with existing businesses to actually build new parking on their sites that then um the coral street campus could have a portion of those lease the portion of those or get dedicated a portion of those in exchange for helping to develop the facility and then the business would also get some you know amount of more parking that they were interested in and then the last option would be to actually acquire land to build parking lots so um additionally public realm improvements are also included here as part of the vision again at a very high level so um metro is actually right now re-evaluating their service they're doing the whole re-imagined metro process which they had a very exciting public meeting just a couple weeks ago um and they're they're really doing a lot of good research to think about how can they um make their service both more efficient for users as well as more efficient for them to operate so um that is an ongoing process that the city is participating in and um we got lots of really good suggestions from the public around transit and creative ways that transit could be used to better support this area so we are communicating those to metro and passing those along into that process um and then the other piece is that the city it's time for the city to update excuse me our active transportation plan which is an effort that is headed out of the public works department and we've already had some discussions about how we can prioritize this area particularly the intersection of highways one and nine um to increase safety because there have been a couple of pedestrian fatalities in that area um recently and so safety for all the movements going through that intersection is still something that um we need to work on particularly for um non-automobile um actors through that intersection so um we're at a stage now where we're pursuing grant funding to begin to start working on that active transportation plan and we will continue to stay involved with that um as it develops over the next year 18 months two years something like that um so that kind of summarizes and covers everything that is in the draft the vision report and um at this point as I mentioned earlier there's no formal action that we're requesting from your um commission we're here to have a discussion and hear from you and answer any questions that you have and sort of take your input into this document um and then following that we will be taking this to the city council in april or may for um in a similar fashion as an informational item for them to sort of accept the report and then provide direction relating to next steps um at that time so um with that we're justin is here for questions and staff is here for questions all right thanks so this isn't like technically a public hearing but I think we'll just follow that same format if commission has questions for staff ask them then we'll open it up and hear from the public then we'll bring it back for some more discussion up here so are there questions for staff from the commissioners everybody's good so I had one I like cheer when I see streets being taken over so I love that one where coral's getting narrower and narrower does did you ever think of or steady just closing it off entirely I mean I know this was studied with the big intersection thing my memory is like you can't quite do it traffic count wise so so we did we did we discussed a lot of different options in the charrette um I mean and we were really at that point we weren't bringing any vision right we were asking the community to tell us what their preference was and we really heard the whole range of preferences and ideas about like let's just close the whole road off make it a cul-de-sac run the circulation through the alley and out fern um don't change anything about it except bring the parking back um make it one way going out from lime kiln out to river um and you know narrow it so that it's really just one lane and um ultimately we we heard from some of the existing businesses that are already in the area there are a couple of issues there the circulation through the alley um the alley is pretty narrow and there's there's actually a little bit of debate about whether it's like fully publicly owned so um the alley is a little bit tricky and then the um these there's these existing businesses that are in that area that you know want to continue to operate and like run you know granite rock runs trucks right in and out of that um facility at 129 so um at this point we think that two-way circulation is still kind of necessary and really the best option in that area so we can narrow it so that it's um not quite as fast right and make some other kind of changes to the roadway um but still offer two-way circulation so that there you know folks can access that neighborhood and get in and out in the ways that they're accustomed to without overloading adjacent roadways thank you for reminding me of the existing people there with businesses because that's important so then i i'm trying to remember setbacks between the ig zoning and like the cc are there can we do zero lot line in one of those and not the other or would that have to be changed i'm sorry i don't know i actually don't know the answer to that i know in the cc you can do a zero lot line when it's adjacent to cc i think you probably can when it's adjacent to any non-residential use okay um i actually don't know the ig setbacks off the top of my head they're probably different and that may be something that we want to think about in in terms of like do we reason do we go ahead and like rezone redesignate yeah that one parcel a possible next step right a lot of those little puzzle pieces just seem to be really squished down by their setbacks to me sure okay all right those are my questions uh can i get it just to show hands like roughly who from the public would like to speak i'd just like to get a count so we can see if we need to limit the time okay four or five um so we'll do three minutes for public comment and welcome thanks for coming this is why we're here is to listen to you all um if you want to come on up that'd be great we limit the time to three minutes uh just so people don't go on and on and uh staffers getting the there's a little yellow light that should come on when your time is getting to the hands testing right and people want to come up if the next speaker could just line up over here at the side that helps us move along quicker hi i'm curt talley my mom owns the quonset huts at the end of coral street um i was just wondering i know i got here a little late and i apologize but how far is this project going to extend and is it planned in the future to go all the way down to use the whole street but we normally don't do back and forth but there was a diagram shown with the with the boundary of the of the project that's the current project boundary am i able to get it get it get that yeah connect with the staff here and they can give you the information and they're open at any time for questions and to meet with you hi there my name is alexander mccoy i'm a lean youth specialist at granite rock and so i just wanted to go on record saying that we do oppose planning over our parcel it's directly adjacent to our larger industrial site and we're aware that this is going to be a public document and it will continue to exist past this planning process um and then also just to point out that you know we're highly aware of the constraints of this small area where these necessary services are trying to be planned but we also just wanted to highlight the fact that directly across river street the city of santa cruz does currently own parcels there and i know it could be logistically challenging but it is possible to create uh an underpass essentially connecting coral to that site and that would eliminate certain pedestrian safety issues that got brought up you could create more parking on some of the limited land and it would allow people to be able to access the site that are currently using the levy which is going to be some of the clients so we just wanted to bring that up as something for future considerations thank you thank you hi my name is michael wood i'm a business owner on fern street in the quads and huts it is mom owns and we pose all there's a lot of challenges for us as business owners in that neighborhood um just last week i had to clean up bc's and and this kind of thing and and i'm wondering is there a facilities plan for this or because the people need a place to go to the bathroom and it's just it's really it's really difficult to have a business in that area people are scared to be there there you know and it's a hygiene issue for us and that's just kind of what i want to bring up and the parking issue as well because we have on-street parking and the people that in the facility park on fern street which takes away our parking that's the i do remember is there parking on that on your parcel also yeah it's it's spot one or two yeah yeah it's there's only a few parking spaces thank you hi i'm jennifer gallacher also a long-standing business owner on coral street at actually 118 corals so i am co-owner of santa cruz rehearsal studios that you've heard about and i just want to go on record um i want to thank you for having the public comment and go on record for a few things i'd like the commission to consider um one is that for me this project study is really lacking a high-level vision to address the current challenges of the neighborhood as expressed by some of our other neighbors um this expansion would just exacerbate those challenges things like tricky parking um and the fact that it's looks okay on paper on the ground this is a huge issue today so i was uh i liked seeing that there were parking issues for this future plan but why aren't we doing them today if they're possible because today there is no parking today people are shooting up on the street today people are defecating these are problems that are happening right now so i don't understand how this vision jumps the problems of today and creates a utopia that doesn't exist in my mind um i also want to continue to address the coral street plaza that and the fact that 118 coral continues to be included in this plan much like 129 granite rock or granite rocks property 129 um the fact is that it is not for sale the fact is it is an industrial condo complex so the leasing of the three buildings does not allow for any um expansion without our participation and we do not want to participate um these this vision has real life effects for us right now it is damaging our business to continue to be associated as part of the coral street homeless service center plaza like campus um we already have to fight for our limited parking with staff and with clients who believe that we are part of the campus because we continue to be included in this vision um thank you hello my name is Nathan van zandt and i'm a business owner at 138 fern street shaney shack brewing uh and we have we're always battling parking it seems like since uh two months after we opened when the parking got changed to permit parking only when i walk the street and look at all those permits i see that most of the street is coming from homeless service center which has zero parking on their street so i appreciate that your plan includes some parking spots but i'm concerned that uh those parking spots are only designated on the parcels that are future or proposed things and so if this project goes through and those project and those properties don't get acquired then we could end up with a big project without with putting even more stress on the parking situation uh so i urge you to decide on making decisions that include parking from the get go uh to help solve the problems that we're currently doing with right now um we've yeah we've been i mean i'm also concerned about a little bit of just the you know uh intention of the community and the area there uh we already have it seems like kind of changed the concept of what it means to go to harvey west as a residential and a commercial area um apart from it being industrial um and having a bigger homeless presence might uh might kind of backslide on our ability to be able to continue business and have the public feel safe uh so i just want to go on record and let those considerations be known thanks my name is portia and thank you for your time today um i work at housing matters and so i want to address some of the you know concerns uh raised today about safety and that um the more we treat people like people the and the less we treat them as some other i think the farther we will go so i want to encourage us to push farther with this plan we have presented today and see um if we can actually uh envision a future where we include the people not as a shelter like in a warehouse but um as people as our community members that are unfortunately you know being pushed out and don't have been in a place to live currently and um so if we are keeping that in mind and keeping our businesses in mind and keeping our ideas of both of these thriving together um i think the more we look at what people are doing in terms of like incorporating um cooperative tenant owned tenant um you know functioning centered housing um that would go a long way and give people and incorporating like job training all these sorts of things even potentially with businesses and um and thinking i encourage y'all to think seriously about the concerns of the businesses as well and that you know we want thriving businesses and how can the city you know if this isn't a place that they want to be be you know somewhere where they are welcomed and included in a space as well and uh but i don't think it has to be either or i think that there is a solution where both can exist together and i encourage all of us to think in a way that we are meeting the needs of human beings and such as needing a bathroom needing a place to have um sanitary resources is really important but also being treated like a person not a plague um not being treated and dehumanized to homeless you know these are human beings and um as studies have shown like a lot of most people are paycheck away from being homeless so you know it really just speaks to supporting all the way around housing permanent housing temporary housing and um from like temporary supportive housing as well and even just not naming something a shelter might change the vibe you could ask the people what the space that they could be living in what they want it to be called um there's a lot of options and i couldn't hear the presentation and i hope next time the volume could be a little louder because i wanted to hear if the if the flood evacuation warning was taken into account because i do think that the safety of the people that are going to be there is should also be taken into concern as well thank you again for your time and i really appreciate this project moving forward thank you all right if there's no more public comment i'll close the public comment part of the hearing and bring it back to the commission for some discussion commissioner dozen uh yeah thank you all for coming first of all um i have other comments but i i'm just hoping that we could um address the private parcels being in the planning area i'm very uncomfortable with that and i i'm hopeful that i could just make a motion so it's a more formal recommendation so i'd like to put a motion on the floor to exclude the private parcels and staff could you just confirm i get this right 133 fern street 129 coral street and 118 coral street i just would like to put a motion on the floor to exclude those from the planning area so that line would exclude those parcels and just put that up for a motion i definitely second that all right we have a motion and a second is there for the discussion yeah um i um i'm sorry that motion got made so quickly i was hoping we could have a discussion about that um uh a little a little bit more informally um uh what i was going to say is that it is obviously really important and first of all i want to say thank you for oh sure sorry computer gets away sorry about that this is a huge planning process and i think there's a lot of pieces of it that you know we can provide a lot more discussion about um i felt like i think that um having the whole area be vibrant as an industrial area as a commercial area with some you know really interesting and vital businesses going on and also an intensifying homeless services area is the big problem that needs to get solved and i'm and i think that this planning process or this this high level planning process is trying to do just that um what i felt like as i saw these these services i mean granite rock is really important the quonset huts are in the um i didn't know about the brewery going on down there but um all of those businesses that have always you know gone down there as long as i've known the area are really important um the concerns that people brought up are vitally important um addressing parking down there's i mean we can hear um from everybody who came tonight and anybody who's ever worked there can talk about how important it is to talk about that and not just for i mean it's important for the whole of harby west um and to you know have it continue to be important um i felt like having those parcels be looked at as be acknowledged as being as the adjacency is not a bad thing i don't see them as no one's going to swoop in and um do some imminent domain on those projects i think planning for their health and vitality is what this project should be doing so in other words i am concerned about parking for the quonset hut businesses and um because i think that matters to the acceptability of the um homeless corner um for the whole community there should be a bathroom all the time i mean it's appalling that we haven't solved that problem um and um that and other emergency services so this process i do believe is the right thing that we should be doing um i don't know that i don't see what the effect would be um to make the planning the high level planning better if they were excluded they're still adjacent you know nothing has changed about you know the underlying legalities of that um i assume it's a it's a some sort of a condominiumized um commercial space it's not changed if the line is drawn differently um and what i would say is that um planning for its health should be part of this project because it isn't just homeless services we're really it's it's um higher level than that and i mean planning for the health of granite rock and you know in the intersections into the traffic and all of those pieces i thought they may brought up some interesting i don't know if it's feasible or not ideas but thinking about what everybody needs down there it's part of what the project should should be so um i'd love to hear an argument that excluding them is going to do a better job of um protecting the overall needs of the area i'm interested in that too mr. Dawson yeah so um i agree that we need to be planning for the health of this whole area and and part of that is having the support of local businesses especially the local businesses that are directly adjacent to this area um so the public process and the planning process is not going to exclude those businesses because we draw the line differently in this plan however it is going to um encourage those businesses to be more proactive more engaged and supportive of this process and so it's a very simple thing i absolutely agree that drawing the line doesn't change the legalities at all but it is something the businesses are asking for they're not going to be excluded by changing this line and i really feel like that that it shows us goodwill that we are doing exactly what commissioner conway said is planning for a vibrant and successful area for both the homeless services and the businesses down there um and it's not just the directly adjacent businesses the businesses on fern street and in that whole area again those businesses aren't excluded more like on a political from a political stance than from a planning stance well there is no official i mean this is not a binding document right but it is showing goodwill to the businesses that we are we are doing what we say we are doing which is having a public process that is trying to plan for the health of the whole area including the small businesses they're asking for us to in this visioning document change the way we've drawn a line and i think that that is a small um it's a small gesture to show that we really want their support we really want them to be a part of this process and we're going to continue down listening to them um and again it doesn't change the legalities it doesn't change the process necessarily but it does show these businesses that we've heard them and that that we want their support and we want to hear them as we go forward i'm still digesting all that commissioner palamas yeah just a question um have we as the city had any type of dialogue with these businesses over the visioning plan or is this sort of this is the first i'm hearing of some of these businesses um you know not wanting to be included aside from granite rock yeah we met with both granite rock and with the santa cruise rehearsal studios and we did hear that from them that they you know would prefer not to be shown within the line on the map um and you know i think this is just one of those hard realities about planning is that you know our responsibility is to make good logical decisions on the part of the whole community and and i understand why someone might be concerned and so um hopefully we've been able to kind of talk that through and just really explain the the purpose and the range of this plan that it really could be you know 40 years and then also on top of that you know we have all kinds of plans that never get to full fruition right like that planning is extremely important and executing every molecule of a plan is really less important the idea what's important is that we have thought comprehensively about this neighborhood so um yes we have we have spoken to the the folks that are within the project area we have not spoken individually with any businesses outside of the project area thank you yeah i mean it's like if the downtown plan of total fitness wasn't into it and was like yeah we're out of this plan area it just seems very arbitrary and slippery to me to start like staff did a good job defining the boundaries or based on the streets of the edges of the neighborhood and i think we should stick with that so uh let's call a roll call vote on Commissioner Dawson's motion Mr. Dawson I Commissioner Conway well i'm i'm for a lot of the concepts in it but i'm going to vote against it because i don't feel like it's appropriate to what we're doing right now Mr. Paul miss no mr. Max Wolf I mr. Kennedy no i'm convinced it will serve the businesses better to be part of the plan than to be excluded as a comment i'm also remembering when seabird metals was the one that was pissed off about the homeless shelter and was never going to participate in the process so here we are with control of that process that parcel so that's an example right there on that street where you know if you keep working with the process things change over the years i might be must remembering the details there but so um yeah i mean i guess maybe we're we are there with there's a lot of things to talk about in here and a lot of things for feedback and i think one thing that um you know we're there there's no um land use proposals before us there's no project per se before before us tonight um except for you know maybe we want to comment on that possibly changing to community commercial but i mean that's that's very different from what we're talking about in terms of actually proposed project we're just kind of dreaming and one of the things that um i see in this is that um i'm glad that the city is considering that um we have this enormous problem and um how we look at it changes over time and you know we've seen it change from being sort of shocked by it in the early 80s and throwing treating it just like it was an emergency so if we do shelters then it's everything it's going to go away and then oh no that's not enough so we need 24 months okay then we'll solve it well that doesn't work permanent supportive housing you know um tenant based rental assistance and you know navigation centers you know but um the thing that seems to me to be just crucially important is that we need land to provide services we need to plan for it well and the fact that there's master planning going on here is really important um incredibly important and i'm so glad that we're seeing it but the other thing is that this is absolutely not going to be a benefit to the community if it doesn't involve the whole neighborhood and really it's a the broader community as well because there's the businesses that are being run down there but it's also the whole rest of the region that's visiting down there to cosco or little league games or i mean you know on and on it's a it's a really important part of the city and it's a huge thing to change from an industrial area and have these you know kind of you know now permanent residences and as well as the transitional residences and the many people that move through there and um so i think it's just it's a really important part of the process and um i'm glad it's going on so i i'm supposed to summarize this chair that that motion failed three to two i forgot to do that um so more discussion we don't have to do motions we can just give ideas to staff um i've got a few to talk about or so i just think this is a great study i appreciate the work and all the you know how the pieces were looked at in different configurations it seems like that um i'm forgetting the word right now but the initial center is so important and i really like the ones that were that showed that in a prominent location on either side i'm just blanking on what it's called the navigation navigation center thank you um yeah parking is just so hard around here and hearing everyone speak to it like the business owners who i'm assuming want people to become in park and enjoy their businesses and that's just hard in that neighborhood so i'm like feeling like we need parking here more than almost any time when i sit up here at the planning commission so there's that um i'm working on a lot of projects in my day job that are affordable housing i'm noticing how important the transportation components are for pursuing this state funding so i see that coordination happening already but i really think if we can start linking like bus stops you know the staff does a great job of this already but maybe that would be a way to get some more money into this master plan area you know i can't think of ones off the top of my head but there are a lot of connectors and routes that could be improved that might make the whole package or each project even more strong i um i'm just thinking of camp ross and like how hard it was to drive by that over and over so i want to say that all of these are just awesome compared to that so thank you for bringing that and uh those are my comments go ahead um so first of all i just really would like to take a moment to thank staff for bringing this to us and the whole process because um i agree with the comments that this is incredibly important area um so i just have a hodgepodge of things here and i'll just get them all out at once um so again i just wanted um state clearly to the public and on the record that regardless of how the project area is drawn on the map we know that this is a major league and have cascading effects around to other businesses so i just encourage folks in the public to continue to follow this council has the ultimate decision so please make sure that you're making your comments to council as well we're just making recommendations tonight um so uh onto the hodgepodge um i did have one quick question that i forgot um so have we got as far as envisioning how many beds that the navigation center would have um um question justin he has a hard time hearing the audio in here um do we know can you remind us how many beds the navigation center could hold justin sorry um yeah i can compare it to a similar project of ours that we've worked on that was um approximately 12 000 square feet uh accommodated 125 beds in that short term shelter okay great thank you thank you i would just say my overarching um comment is that we we need to certainly maximize the amount of units that we have available um short term is part of that but also long term permanent housing um is something that i think is really critical um the co-location of services is very um very important and we know that that works finding a space for hphp um it is is i know that's part of the vision but i just want to put it on the record um i know people who work in this field and it's just a critical part of the services in that area um making sure that they have the space um will be a really important part of the services provided um i also as we move forward i know we're at the visioning stage but as the projects actually take shape um it's really going to be critical to talk to the unhoused community um i didn't see i know that there was a shred and some unhoused people could come there but i think there should be more of a formal effort to include them into um you know i think that they're the best at telling us especially the barriers to services in addition to the types of services that they need i think it goes both ways the service providers and the unhoused community um you know the more we get it right with uh the the level of service that is needed there the and the making sure that they're accessible is going to be better for everyone these issues that are are being brought up by the businesses and the people around there if we can have the services the bottom line issue is that the need is way higher than the services we have that's that's that is the crux of it so the the better we can be efficient and effective and that starts with the unhoused community other people that came to mind is the free guide i didn't see them formally reached out to i also just want to bring out um that we talked about state and county partners um you know there there is a huge federal partner that wasn't talked about and i know this is just for veterans but they have over 400 vouchers here in the county of Santa Cruz so the HUD VA supported housing should be part of these conversations they're in that community all the time and and you know they are a bit of the poster child of how supported housing can work so so they're good they're good partners i think um there's also community mutual aid groups that um interact with the unhoused community uh they should be part of this conversation i think a formal reach out to them would be really important um and i think that's the end of the hodgepodge so thank you yeah great comments on the second the talk to the people there if i could just respond on that point so so thank you commissioner Dawson for that um i was not aware about the VA supportive housing program so thank you so much for mentioning that and i did just want to make sure that everyone was aware that we we did make sure that we had folks with lived experience of homelessness at the that first charrette and then also there were a number of them that also attended the second community meeting so that was really important to us and we didn't mention it in the in the presentation so i just wanted to make sure we had probably 60 participants i think in the charrette 50 or 60 and a dozen of them were folks who had lived experience yeah that's great um it's just certainly certainly we should continue to make them a priority absolutely any other thoughts uh thank you to staff for that really comprehensive viewpoint of what could be someday um i just i also have kind of a hodgepodge of comments um i would just start with there are a lot of competing interests in this project area and for me um in in my unprofessional opinion i think that if people don't have her or stable shelter um you can throw a lot of services at them and the chances of them permanently rehousing i think are pretty low so i think that um you know maximizing the short term and long term residential uses is definitely going to be really important and i also think that parking is i would just repeat what most people have said around here in this particular area i think that parking is a little bit more important not only to the businesses but also to you know the the staff the people that attend the scrs things like this and i also think that it provides an interesting opportunity to explore whether a safe parking program makes sense in this area so that it can be used by businesses and staff for the uh uh homeless services center by day and then potentially a safe parking program at night um maybe that makes sense there maybe it doesn't maybe something to explore um i also think that um i'm really excited about some of the the permanent supported housing units that are going in the back of the of the campus there west what rv west studios yes rv west studios so i i really support this type of housing and i think it's going to be a real game changer um for for many people and i also support uh you know looking at other housing options uh where the shelter building is and that's uh scheduled to be demolished i think that those are all really good opportunities to take a look at how we provide shelter um in the short term and the long term to people who really need it i also really like the tiny homes idea that looks awesome i know that's way off in the future and that may not be a good fit for everybody but i i really like tiny homes i think that's a great um a great direction to head um my last thought was just about coral street um the in in some of the appendices there was a lot of talk about closing coral street off or you know making changes to the way that traffic float on coral street and um for me i think that as in the event that the coral street campus across um to the north is actually developed into more of a you know as a more uh integrated part of the entire campus i think maybe making it a one way um from lime kiln down to uh river might make sense i just think that as people are you know crossing back and forth across coral street um as the place becomes more populated as more people are entering this area um it might you know make sense to have direction flow one way from the cosco area down down to river street and then also um you know it there is no left from river right there so i think that even if you made it into a one way it wouldn't necessarily inhibit um you know people from coming into that area either on firm or on uh ensignal so that pretty much sums it up um yeah thank you guys so much for great presentation thank you all right well i just want to also say um thanks to staff um for having this because uh sometimes we don't get the chance to like actually talk about these things before they happen and still just comes to us as it's happening so it's really nice to be part of the planning visioning more more or less and to also include the public to have a second to come in and talk to us about the vision um which i appreciate everybody that's come here today um a lot of what was said i agree with most i mean commissioner dawson summed up almost all of it i agree i think uh coral street be becoming a one-way makes a ton of sense i've i mean i've been over there a bunch not many people are making left hand turns off the river or can ever so um that makes a lot of sense um as far as the navigate it's nice to have all the services be in one spot um i was wondering what parcels of across from river street do that does the city own i remember the person from granite creek mentioning so um there are we don't have a map of that handy um but so across the street is the central home site yep yep and that um site is really three separate legal parcels okay and so the city currently owns two of them and one of them is owned by caltrans okay great yeah i mean i would love to see as you know the more we make this area like and like we're this it's only gonna make us better this is only gonna improve what's there already um and we listening to the people that are in that area i mean i know i've been to the businesses in that area i've you know drive go of course with everyone somehow goes to casco i try not to but um but and you know there are a bunch of problems there right now and i i want to acknowledge that we hear heard from people tonight saying there's a problem right now that needs to be addressed and this is all fun that we get to talk about what we get to like think about making but sounds like there's some actions that possibly could help alleviate some of the problems now um i'm not the mastermind of planning to know what those answers are but it would be nice to see if we could because you know as we're this is a project that we're looking forward to in years and years in the future um somehow helping the the businesses there now so it'd be interested to see how you know what we could come up with that would you know obviously we can't be something permanent that's going to affect the long-term vision but maybe something that we can find in temporary level um other than that i the other thing too was the idea of having the the the occupants and the people living there be part of the naming process i think is really great that's a great idea i would love to see that happen at least so that people are proud of that space and they really claim it as their own you know so i would love to see that um other than that i think that's it thanks all right commissioner sorry i know i've talked about a couple things but they didn't do my hodgepodge and um and um yeah again thank you for taking this on it's just really high time to do it and there were a couple of things that i really liked that you did i actually think that coral street should be too pay but have no right turn so that you can't um go out on i thought was listed somewhere and i said people there's circulation on the street but you have to get there a different way i don't know to me that made a lot of sense and a lot of the transportation ideas for managing it down there some of them were like well yeah and one of them is why can't people get on an amp on a bus that's done with its service and take you know go down to where it's going to get parked all night i read that one and it's like that seems so incredibly simple you know yet maybe you know just that's going out of service that's where it's going walk from the yard even they don't have to make a stop but i mean i i thought that was a good example of the kind of creative thinking that really needs to happen because that walk gets really long you know and it gets especially really long i mean everybody knows that people are homeless have an incredibly high incidences of all kinds of physical problems so i just thought that was a nice and simple one um and there's only so much you can do about about managing the demand there's going to be a bunch of people working there there's going to be a bunch of people of all different skill levels working there and you know not everyone is privileged to be able to ride their bike from the west side you know to go to work down there and parking is just really important and it sort of broke my heart a little bit as i'm looking at it because i know how badly we need uh space for a navigation center and for services but i really think that if we don't address the parking issue down there um you know it's it's not going to be successful and another thing that i loved that you did is to um i first of all acknowledge what a great community can um arise around pallet shelters and just that small space and it's it's a wonderful healthy community making some out some green space where people can hang out that that always was the case with page smith community house and it's former incarnation and then you know it's newer incarnation there's even a little bit of it so having just a hangout space a little bit of public space um i loved that and i also loved um thinking about that it is going to change over time you're gonna tear down that uh the river street shelter which has really been held together by termites holding hands for a long time you know and so you know right away more pallet shelters that makes good sense you know and you know it's gonna it's gonna change over time our response to this problem is gonna change over time so i loved that um i thought that community garden in between trees making narrows you know coral street narrower um was a sweet idea too um and uh let's see um safe storage absolutely vital um one thing that we we aren't going very granular on the type of services that are provided and i know that's not really our role but it was mentioned at one point which is medical detox you know we haven't had that space and it would save lives it would make such a difference it would reduce the impact on our er and on our jail and um it's just more compassionate and i'm gonna you know i know that's that was mentioned a couple of times and uh oh and finally i guess the partnerships for shared parking um mike brought that up and um i think some ways to solve the parking problem together it would have to be intensively managed i know there's been some false attempts or failed attempts i should say at doing that over time and it won't work if it's not really managed um but i it does seem like an opportunity we are you know just as a community learning how to share parking space and make better space of the land that we do dedicate to cars and it seems like this is a good opportunity for that i guess my list right so i've got two more things to say um i keep going back to that street improvements and i just think it'd be so great to do the street first and make it a really nice kind of pacific garden mall level streetscape i know that kind of doesn't work funding wise but just seeing that i was like yeah let's invest in that street because in the last 15 years it has gotten way better the streetscape you remember it used to just be kind of like very scungy and there's some trees here so i wanted to point that out i have this broader planning concern about just industrial zones and kind of adjacencies i was out at t-ball practice the other day and like smelled the spray paint coming from one of those factories over there and that's great that's where factories should be but where i was always taught never give away your industrial keep it in case that lead factory moves in later on or whatever it is so how do we i know you're doing it already but how do we keep carefully managing well i want zero lot line and a concrete factory next door like how do we work through that with these parcels yeah that's a that's a really great comment and that is definitely something that um granite rock brought up you know they have concerns whether or not they're on the project map they have concerns about the land use next door changing from a currently like industrial land use they have dust they have trucks they trucks make noise they do repairs there things are stinky um and i think you know all of those are things that we're going to have to address as we get into the entitlements phase of any new development project we're going to have to think about like how can we orient this building and you know maybe windows on that side aren't openable and so like the interior of the building has to be planned a little bit differently so that we can acknowledge that there is an industrial neighbor on that side and that the residents need to be kind of shielded from that and the industrial uses have a right to continue and operate right we want to make sure that there aren't mutually conflicts that are created because of the new development parking is obviously one of those but um you know you bring up a really good point about other sorts of offsite impacts of industrial land um you know that is something that we are always thinking about and one of the one of the big challenges with finding any location in the city for a navigation center is like what's the trade-off that we're going to choose right are we going to choose to put this you know a facility like this in some place that's far from existing services closer to other residential uses in the core of our commercial downtown that has lots of other demands on that space um or are we going to look to sort of consolidate and at the at the moment that's sort of the direction that we're taking is to consolidate and that that does mean the conversion of some amount of industrial land which um you're correct we are usually very protective of industrial land for exactly that reason these are job generators these are you know uses that we don't really want migrating to other neighborhoods um and this is just kind of how we're striking that balance this is the choice that the city's making right now and is it perfect at no nothing in land use is perfect so um yeah I think we're going to have to continue to monitor that and um do everything that we can to ensure that it's um if not if it can't be a beneficial relationship that it's at least not antagonistic yeah I mean it's a challenge remember that a lot of that comes in the planning way down the road what kind of filtration your building has how soundproof those walls are um good so I think that's all I've got I'm just reflecting on all the other like this is my 10th year on the planning commission can you believe that and all the weird uses we've talked about over those 10 years up here like the weight lifting you know gym one I had to get a special use permit because you can't technically do gym in that area and oh marijuana dispensaries there's a lot in that neighborhood kind of for the same reason that no neighbors really want that right next to their house so um that's interesting and so I just feel weird about like sticking our homeless people there but that's the only place that can go really that could work that I could think of so great let's do it there better to do it there than not at all all right that's what I've got any other comments I will adjourn the meeting thanks staff that was interesting uh Lee do you have any other sorry before we adjourn do you have any announcements uh subcommittee no announcements special meeting and so um nothing else on the agenda other than the item we just discussed great thanks we'll see you soon thank you