 Look, there's a lot of ways to work out, a lot of ways to exercise your body, but one of them is superior to all the others when it comes to making your body look the best. I'm talking about aesthetics and that strength training, lifting weights, no other form of exercise allows you to target sculpt your body like strength training. So if you do other forms of exercise, you may look better, you start to become healthier, but only strength training allows you to target parts of your body, develop them, and literally change the way you look. Get you that naughty body. What? Right, guys? Naughty body. I just came up with that. I love it. Wow, please clip that, Andrew. Please clip that. Naughty body. So, okay, when you were saying that, I was like, obviously, but I was like, who would disagree or not maybe even think that, but then I forgot there's a lot of people that do like Pilates, what else is another example of somebody in a form of exercise that you do with the intent of sculpting the body? Or looking the way, think about it, okay. Cause a lot of people do stuff to lose weight, right? And that's their main goal, and you can lose weight doing lots of forms of different exercise. Well, the challenge is that people look at like top yoga instructors or top Pilates instructors or dancers or swimmers or whatever on social media and they think, oh, that form of exercise is gonna make me look like that. That's not quite how it works. First off, when you're looking at the top or the best of the best in each of these categories, what you have is a combination of hard work, effort, discipline, right? They've been doing this for a long time, but also their bodies genetically are great for that particular endeavor. So if you look at like the world's top swimmers, you're gonna have a lot of people with long torso, short legs, broad backs, kind of flat chest, right? Because that's a body type that tends to do well. Of course, they train hard and they work hard as well. Same thing with basketball players, football players and so on. So it's not really a good way to determine how a form of exercise is gonna make you look. Really you wanna look at how that form of exercise gets your body to adapt and strength training. There's no other form of exercise that lets you target parts of your body. Like if you cycle, you're doing the same thing over and over again. You're working some parts and not others, right? If you run, if you do Pilates, you are working your body a particular way, but you're not like target building, target sculpting. With strength training, I can literally look in the mirror and say, I want rounder shoulders. I want better hamstrings. I want my lats to come out so my waist looks smaller. I want my arms to look a particular way. And then I can train those parts of my body. I can target sculpt and target train my body. So it's as close as you can get to being a sculptor. Know the form of exercise that lets you do that. So you think it's just, they don't have a good understanding of even what they truly want. Or what'll happen, right? They don't necessarily know. They, most people will look again, they'll look at a picture of someone who does something a lot and say, oh, that's what I could look like if I did that thing. Or the other thing you see is they see somebody and go like, I don't want to look like that. And that's what those, for example, like I know some girls stay away from like CrossFit type of training because they're afraid that they're going to have these boxy hips. And it's like, no, those top athletes that are women in CrossFit are good at deadlifting and snatch and all that stuff like that. The boxy hips help. Because it helps. It helps the sport. It's not the sport made their hips look that way. And so there's a lot of people that will avoid certain exercises or modalities because they look at the top. You know, the characteristics are you'll start to recognize them, you know, in top tier sports because like some of those are advantages. And certainly you're talking about the torso, long torso, like all these different types of, you know, bodies that actually perform better for very specific tasks. So, you know, to attribute that to the training is, you know, something you got to check yourself on. Yeah, there was this really cool picture I saw a long time ago where it had Michael Phelps, right? So he's like, he's the most decorated Olympian, I think of all time. Definitely the best swimmer of all time. And they had his body and they had him standing next to, I think it was the world marathon champion, I think. And the marathon champion was short, shorter compared to Michael Phelps, much shorter, but their legs were the same length. So Michael Phelps was like way taller, but he's got really short legs, a really long torso, really long arms. The marathon runner had these really long legs, short torso, and that's their genetics, right? And then their training, of course, is also what makes them great, but that doesn't mean you're gonna look like that, right? And again, strength training, anybody, you can look in the mirror and say, I want more butt, I want more hamstrings, I want this, I want that. And then you can go to the gym and the beauty of strength training is there's body part specific exercise. Well, one of the things that's so amazing about strength training too, is that you can design having both, right? Like, so if you have somebody who like, gravitates towards Pilates, or gravitates to getting in shape with a sport, or what's cool or like loves to swim, like what's cool about having the strength training is the foundation. Like, you can build your programming to build the absolute ideal physique for you that you want, and then you can integrate these aspects of that way of training around it. I had this, I was just, before we got on, I'm gonna razz my buddy, Brendan. So, you know, he's in incredible shape, he's a little bit older than we are, he's- XNFL Pro. Yeah, XNFL, he was tested as one of those, the one percent gene or whatever that he has, he's on another level. He's a beast, he's in incredible shape, and he's always trying to get a little bit bigger and more muscular and stuff like that, and we were texting back and forth, and he was like, yo, you see I'm 205 right now, he looks great. I'm like, yeah, I said, you know, if I could just get you to stop doing all the soccer mom exercises, I imagine what you would look like. We won't tell anybody to come on a map. No, I share that, I'm busting his balls. Guys, he can run, I think he's running a mile, like five minutes something, dude. Yeah, he's a badass, right? And he was laughing and he sent me back a voicemail, being like, basically rattling off the stats of how badass he is and all those things, and I'm like, I'm busting your chops. But one of the things that, I mean, if he was my client, one of the things I would get him to understand also is that I can give you all those things and still build a program around strength training. So I know it's not either or, it's not like I'm gonna make you get bigger and more muscular and therefore you're not gonna be able to run, you're not gonna be able to do these things, you won't be athletic. I can still keep you athletic and still have a strength training focus program and build more muscle or get you bigger than what you currently are right now. Like this, it's like this idea that you have to train all this crazy endurance stuff. Like if you want to be good at just the athletic pursuits, it's like, no, we can program a lot of like, you know, to be versatile in all directions, to be able to jump, to be able to run, to be able to get a good mile, like you can acquire all those skills and then also strength training. But it's like the people that want those skills, they gravitate towards this programming that is just like the whole programming is all centered around just endurance, endurance, endurance. It's combo it all together. Yeah. Well, name one form of exercise that is more versatile than strength training. It literally, strength training can be used to compliment any physical pursuit. You can't say that for any other form of exercise. Literally, I could take strength training and I can apply it. The reason why we could do this by the way is because it's so moldable. There's, I don't know, 10,000 exercises. There's five different ways to do each one. There's ways I could strength train for explosive power, strength, endurance, traditional strength, stability, correctional exercise. So literally it doesn't matter what you do. You can add appropriate strength training and the programming here is real important, right? Cause you gotta have the right programming. You can add appropriate strength training and it'll make what you do better. There's no other form of exercise that does this. It's literally in a category of its own when it comes to exercise and training. In fact, it's the primary way people rehab their bodies even. You go to a physical therapist, what they're doing with you are forms of strength training to rehab your body. And all the cognitive benefits as well, which never gets highlighted in our industry in terms of like being able to keep your mind stimulated and all these like receptors and being able to, you know, go through and teach your body all these new movements. It's basically its own language that you acquire as you get more proficient in a lot of the different skill of weight training and you're constantly stimulating it with information. So it keeps your cognitive abilities sharp. Oh, it's the proprioceptive. So proprioception is knowing where your body is in space. Because strength training is so multi-dimensional, so moldable, right? If you do a sport or form of exercise, it typically tends to have the same movement or movement patterns that are repetitive, right? So like running, cycling, swimming, tennis, basketball, football, whatever. It's like similar movements over and over again that are that sport. Well, because strength training is, it has form and technique, but it's also formless. It's formless in the sense that I can do, I can move any plane, I can rotate, it's patterns, interruptions, constantly, which you get into that sort of, which people love, Cardi and I understand why, because you can really get into that zone where you're lost, like you're getting that endorphin experience out of it because it becomes mindless. And it's almost like a form of meditation for a lot of people when they are able to just, get into that repetitive kind of rhythm, versus like strength training, like it's just constantly having to account for all this different types of stimuli. It's gotta be the most commonly used form of exercise across the board for all sports. Like can you name any other form of exercise that's used in almost every single sport, aside strength training? No. I can, right? It's incorporated in golf, basketball, football, swimming, like I don't, I mean, whatever the sport is, strength training applied appropriately. Well, I mean, that's relatively new when you think about it. Yeah, that was not always the case. Yeah, I mean, that's when you look at, some of the things that I've attributed. You remember there was a TED Talk we shared a long time ago on the show, way back when, and I forgot the name of it, but it talked about all these crazy leaps. The democratization of sports. Yeah, something like that. I think that was the name, in fact. Oh, you think that was the name of the TED Talk? Maybe Doug can look it up and see if we can find it. You remember which one I'm talking about, right? I do, and he was talking about performance improvements over the years, and he was showing that it had more to do with like the track and the equipment. Yeah, and then science with nutrition and, I mean, we've just like humans. They think people think it's steroids. Yeah, yeah, exactly. What blew my mind about that, that was the point I was making, was that like, if you would have asked me, athletes today versus athletes 40 years ago, and we look at all the numbers, we're blowing everything out of the way, what would you attribute the most to? I'd be like, oh, performance enhancement drugs, for sure. David Epstein. We actually had him on the show, I believe. We did, we did. Did we have? Yeah, what's the name of the TED Talk? Our athletes really getting faster, better, stronger. Did we have him on the show? We did. No way, I don't even remember. A long time ago, it was like, that must have been year two. It was a long time ago. Wow, you know, that would be an interview I'd rather do now, like when we're better, because that's, he would be an interesting conversation. I don't remember the cover. What's your favorite color? Yeah. Doug, write down some questions. We're probably asking some bad shit, I don't know. But I think that's just so interesting, because I mean, at least my buddies and I who all argue and debate sports stuff all the time, that was a big argument for the longest time of what has made the biggest difference. And we've come, humans are exactly the same as what they were 40 years ago, and their abilities were pretty similar. In fact, there's some examples of some older athletes that did some even more impressive things than today. So it's not that we've evolved, it's that we've gotten much smarter with our approach. And strength training and recovery are the two I would say have really evolved the most with athletes. I mean, that was just not, you have athletes now like the LeBron, James and many other of these top athletes that spent a million dollars a year on recovery. And people don't realize this, up until the 80s, up until the 80s I'll say, except for football, even football though, if you go earlier than the 80s, like 70s, 60s, up until the 80s, athletes were encouraged not to strength train. They were actually told, don't go to the gym and lift weights because it makes you muscle bound. It'll reduce your performance, your athletic performance. This is still a big thing even in baseball that we're fighting. Oh yeah, and when I was helping out the high school team, it was like we were constantly battling with the high school baseball coach. Oh, that's so funny. Because yeah, it's like, don't do any of the upper body stuff, you know. It's like, anyways, yeah, it's so frustrating. What kind of dinosaur coaches were you? Yeah, I was like, where did you crawl? Well, we also went on this, it's kind of like, okay, we weren't doing it at all. And then we recognized the benefits of it and then there was the over application of it. We're just doing it wrong. So I think when you hear a coach that's like, that seems like they're dinosaur ages, they were part of the wave who probably adopted it but adopted it incorrectly and then saw negative effects from it. And they're like, don't do that. Didn't do any of the skill in conjunction with. Right, or overtraining. Or it was just bodybuilding. Yeah, exactly. Like to the end, they're like, you're just gonna bodybuild. And it's like, no, they're specific. Again, it's so moldable. It has to be done appropriately, but when you apply, because all strength training is, is adding resistance to movement in the attempt to gain strength, okay? And also possibly muscle, depending on your sport. That's all it is. So it can be bands, it could be body weight, it could be weights, of course, and machines. It could be lots of different ways that you could do this. You could do strength training to some extent just by explosive movement without any resistance at all. But if you apply it properly, there's nothing more versatile that'll make you better at everything. So, and then as far as making you look good, I mean, you, in terms of aesthetics, okay? Forget athletic performance and movement and all that stuff. Just in terms of aesthetics. Oh my God. Like you can't. Nothing comes close. Nothing comes close. No, male, female, I don't care who you are, what your goal is, you take your twin and they do any of the form of exercise and you give me the other twin. That was your opportunity, man, to just be like, look at this. Yeah, whoa. Whoa. Just, whoa. But there's really no, there's no other form that somebody even would make that case anymore, right? I brought up Pilates and not the rag on Pilates at all, but that's one of those ones that I still hear, like I have people that I've talked to that are like, oh, you know, I love the way it makes my body look. And I'm just like, good. If you think that makes your body look really good, imagine if you actually strength train because you could really sculpt the body. So it's not that it doesn't at all, is that there is a, which is just like the point I was making about my body is like, it's not like what he's doing isn't not working athletic performance. The proof is in the pudding. He's in incredible athletic shape. It's just like, I could give you what I know you want. You want to be a little bit more jacked and more sized to you, but still be that super athletic guy as he ages. Like I have the answers for you. Yeah, it'll take one, it'll take literally one day of me. Just one day of exercise. Yeah, I just need to adjust a little bit of your strength training and the way it's programmed. That's all right now. The circuit style of training is obviously benefiting kind of where you're at right now, but we could get a little bit more of that size. I know you like that. You got such mesomorphic genetics too that that guy, he could be a distance runner and he'd be built. Like he just, the guy just must have. Yeah. That's why I'm like, and I told him, I said, I'm just, you know, I'm just messing with you, but the trainer of me would love to get a hold of them genetics for a little bit. Just let me, let me get a hold of that programming for like six months and show you. It's so frustrating when a regular, like a regular guy like me meets somebody like that with those kind of, I mean, I've had people like that work for me. Not very many. Yeah, the ones that like go to McDonald's and they're just like shredded. Dude, I've had, I've had trainers work for me and I'm just like, wow, dude, he's so crazy jacked. And I'd watch him and I'd be like, he eats pop tarts and cheeseburgers and he works out once a week. Like what the heck is going on here? I'm over here busting my butt to try and look. You know, do you think, do you think those sane people or do you think this is a different gene that allows you to even get away with, let's say, you know, less appropriate training for what you're trying to obtain. Do you understand what I'm saying? Do you think that's the same kind of gene or do you think it's different? Do you think there's like a gene for people that are just, man, they are just blessed. They touch weights, they build muscle or whatever. And is that same gene responsible for the people too? Like they could also train terribly, not eat. Yeah. When you have those muscle building genetics that are on that 1% that just respond. I mean, you ever look at pictures of like, like Phil Heath, right? He was Mr. Olympia for a while when he played basketball. His arms look like mine. He was a monster, yeah, when he was young. Yeah, he was playing basketball. This is also what makes it very difficult for people to point to a person as an example of what they're doing and how it's worked for them because there's such a large individual variance on how you respond. I mean, we talked about how bodybuilders need very little calories. There's people who can get, which is also why you hear people be like, you don't have to eat that much protein. I only eat this much. And look at my, like, there's some people that probably assimilate protein, need less of a requirement than other people do to build muscle too. So just because we have these general truths and nutrition of like, oh, this is the best ratio. Remember, this is a collection of people over a study that are all individual. This is what they come out to be, the average or median, and therefore that's what we put out as the science. But the truth is there's two ends of the spectrum and then everybody in between. And if you get somebody who is an incredible responder that needs very little of this, the very little of the protein, you need very little of the additional calories, but and just need to touch the weights. Doesn't have to be good programming and they respond. And then you have the other person who has to do almost everything perfect. And then they barely see any response from it. And then everybody in between and recognize that you're somewhere and you fit somewhere in that spectrum and the person that you're using as an example. That's not fair, yeah. Yeah, it could be so different on the spectrum that you are. Yeah, there's some people like Herschel Walker. Have you guys ever seen this guy 50 something years old? Like what is going on? Ronnie Coleman was top 10 Mr. Olympia, pro bodybuilder, natural, natural. Then the story goes, and this is, I mean, this is- Him and Flex, right? Flex is the one that introduced him. Flex Wheeler and Flex tells a story. And so it was Ronnie Coleman. Flex Wheeler was like, hey man, if he just did some steroids, like you would totally win. That next year, he showed up on stage and everybody was like, who is this mutant? And he won, you know, and then won seven times in a row, whatever. Those genetics are out there. Unfortunately, most of us don't have them. That's the shoeboard. What's up everybody? Today's giveaway, Maps Aesthetic. This is a bodybuilder workout program. Here's how you can enter to win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we dropped this episode. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comments and you got free access to Maps Aesthetic. Also, we got a sale going on this month. Three programs, 50% off. Maps Performance, Maps Aesthetic and Maps Hit. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. Speaking of strength training, Dr. Andy Galpin posts this study that people were getting kind of confused about and excited about. And you guys saw this, you sent it to me, right? I did, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna pull it up and read kind of the title of it because people were like, oh my God, this is crazy. It says, males do not gain muscle strength in size with the resistance training faster than women. In fact, females often see faster progress in upper body strength development. So this is a sex differences in resistance training, a systematic review and meta analysis. So this was a great study. Now people were like kind of confused by this, like wait a minute, like women build more muscle or like what's going on. So I kind of wanted to explain this because I'm sure this is gonna make its rounds. So it's relative size and strength to their current size. So because women are smaller and men are much larger, relative to their size, they will gain, excuse me, gain a greater percentage of muscle in a particular period of time than a man will. This is also true for a smaller man versus a larger man. So if you're small, for example, if you have 10 pounds of lean body mass, you gain one pound, you gain 10% more lean body mass. If you have 100 pounds of lean body mass and you gain, you know, five pounds, it's five times as much muscle, but it's less. It's a much smaller percentage. So that's the reason why, because people were confused about this. So women do gain great muscle and strength. They just, as a percentage of... Is this also kind of a selection thing in terms of women preferring more lower body centric workouts and maybe highlighting development of... I imagine that was in the controls. Cause then if, yeah, if they were to focus a bit more cause, you know, that being a novel stimulus is being provided. It's a made analysis. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff. Yeah, there's a lot. There's gotta be some of those controls in there also. That would be silly cause you're right. Cause they would gravitate towards one. I mean, I think what the most interesting about the study that highlights more than anything else is that the potential for women is equally there. That's the real takeaway from this is that, you know, a lot of women sometimes can be discouraged that... You're gonna see results. That they can't build muscle or it's so difficult for them or they've been told. So we get all the testosterone, we build muscle. You know what the biggest, you know what the biggest challenge, first, yes, of course, men can build much more total muscle. They start out with more muscle, of course. But here's the biggest challenges for women traditionally or generally speaking when it comes to building muscle. One, they're typically more apprehensive at consuming the right amount of calories and protein to build muscle, whereas guys tend to be more... They're more ready to do so or they try to cause they're trying to gain. Whereas women are a little bit more apprehensive. So they tend to consume too little and they're also not as ready to lift heavy. And so those two things play a huge role. When women eat the protein, eat the calories, lift heavy, I mean, you see phenomenal. I wonder if, I wonder generally speaking too, would you say that women are challenged more often hormonally than men are too? Meaning that if you just took a hundred random men off the street, a hundred random women off the street, do you think there'd be a greater percentage of women in there that have imbalanced hormones or issues with their hormones compared to men? And even the men that have issues with it still have testosterone and beneficial muscle building hormones? There's two things to that. One is that men across the board for the last, I think six decades have been seeing a lowering of testosterone. Correct. So men are actually seeing some pretty gnarly things when it comes to testosterone. Now, on the other side, women's hormone levels seem to be more sensitive to things like stress, lack of sleep, and things like fasting. Yeah, I'd say low calorie, you gotta be careful. Yeah, because a woman's body, obviously they evolved to be able to carry a baby. And so when their body senses too much stress or overwork, it's go, let's become infertile. We can't support a baby. So I've had female clients, for example, go fast, do fasting, and then over time, we start to get these stress effects like hair loss and like they have too much cortisol, storing body fat weird, and that's like, we can't fast anymore. Whereas men tend to respond better to the stress of fasting. You get where I'm going with that question though, right? Like because, I mean- I think birth control plays a role too. Right, so that was my point. 100 off, random off street. And this is the thing, this is the problem with studies like this, right? Cause there's probably a lot of women that are reading that'd be like, man, that cannot be true. I don't feel that way. And they're probably right, because they probably fall into more of a more general or average, if you were to select people randomly and not control them for a study and go, okay, let's get a hundred women who have good balance or good and balanced healthy hormonally and let's put them in this study and let's do the same for men. And then, oh, look at that when everything's all equated for, they actually can build muscle just as easily as men. But the truth is that's not the average woman potentially, right? I'm saying, is there a potential that when you would grab a random hundred out of the street that there would be a greater percentage and how much greater of a percentage would that group of a hundred women that you pulled in a hundred men pull that would have hormonal imbalances which play a huge factor in the ability to build muscle and lose body fat. I think, yeah, I think you're making a point with that. I think too, based off of the episode we did about like why women should bulk and what kind of response we got from that. It's like, how often is that a conversation or something that women are actively seeking is to go higher in their calorie intake? The typical under-eater chronic dieter is a female. Yeah. You typically don't see that. You're not gonna build well in that state. Yeah, so when a woman's like, I'm gonna lift weights, her goal is usually to lose weight. And so she's afraid of eating or fueling her body appropriately to build the muscle. Whereas a guy, even if he wants to lose weight. You know where you see that in men? Where you see that in men is when men have lost a bunch of weight. Because they were really overweight. Yeah, they have a fear. Then they become chronic under-eaters, right? So if you've met somebody who had to lose 50 to 100 pounds and they actually finally did it, right? For whatever means, they did it. Whether it was properly or improperly, more often than not, it's improperly where they cut hardcore calories and they do lots of cardio. And then they become chronic under-eaters because in fear of going the other direction, so they're constantly keeping themselves in this crazy deficit. You know, I'd love you guys' input on this. In my experience, with the average male, average female client within a year, and I say average, so they're probably working out two to three days a week in the gym consistently, they're not like perfect about their diet, but they're eating better. So these are people I've worked with, okay? The average woman I could get to build about six to seven pounds of lean body mass in a year and the average male, usually around 10 to 13 pounds of lean body mass in the first year. Do you want to say that that's similar? These are average people. I mean, I think that's a pretty fair... Yeah. But here's, I don't... Generally speaking, yeah, I would probably say... I can't. When you would track them and all that? Yeah, I can't. To be honest with you, it's crazy. It's been so long now and there were so many people that that number sounds fair enough that it's not, like it definitely wasn't something crazy. It definitely wasn't no 20 pounds they're putting on there. But I mean, when you look at like your client base, especially if you include the first half of our career, I mean, over the course of a year, a lot of my clients didn't see a lot of results. Just be honest. I'm talking about the back half when you would... Yeah, I mean... I'm not looking at the back half to train at the beginning. I mean, the truth is, I mean, it's this, even if you're a good trainer, right? Which I would consider myself the back half of my career, the adherence to consistency and diet and training is so, so rare that when... So it's actually hard to remember what that looks like. If I were to bring an average out, I'd say it would be incredibly low and bad because the average is, there's so many more people that... I guess the median, right? Because the average would count like a lot of the people that would. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, that's depressing. Thanks for being into the depression. Well, I mean, you're right. So this is what... I don't know about you guys. I mean, you guys actually train clients. It's very rare we get those transformations that were powerful, you know. You guys have probably actually trained more clients than I have directly, right? Indirectly, if you count my years as a fitness manager, indirectly I had hundreds, thousands underneath me through all these trainers, but you guys probably trained more one-on-one people. I pretty quickly, I was over it. And part of that was that. It's the same reason why I went on the business side when people ask me why we don't do the mastermind group thing. Also it's like low-hanging fruit shit. It's like, you know what I have a really hard time with? And I don't know what this is. I'd like to say it's my integrity. I don't even know if that's true or not though. Is that I have a hard time selling ideas to people when I know what the failure rate is. It's... You just gotta be honest. I'm challenged with that. You know, you're saying that though too, that I had 100%, that was always in the back of my mind. I'm not breaking through. I'm not breaking through. And this is why I reduced my clients all down to like a few. And the higher-end model, because I just felt like I wasn't doing everything I could. I just changed my expectations. I started to look at all the other ways that I was helping these people. They're showing up. They're happier. They feel better. Yeah, they haven't lost any weight yet because that's tough and it's hard for them to change their diet. And then I was honest. I would tell people when they'd hire me, I know you wanna lose 30 pounds. It's gonna take a long time. Some people never do it, you know? But here's what we're gonna do. So I would be very honest. And then if they did lose it, it was like this great surprise. So I pivot to coaching trainers do it. So I pivoted over too late. Like I'll teach them how to do all of this. This is what I tell people. But I mean, I love this, right? This is what I love about this is that it's like, we can just continue to give all the information and experience and knowledge that we've acquired over all these years. And there's no expectations attached to it for me, which I love. I love this. I'm just gonna give you everything I know, you know what I'm saying? And so with that. And then you go do it with it. Go apply it. You go do it with it. I don't have to handhold you through the application. I'm not being paid to make sure you're accountable to all of it. I just, here you go. You go do what you want with it. It's not funny and it's more effective. It's way more fulfilling too. Cause then we get all these like, you know, live callers that come on. It's like, oh my God. This thing, I'm like, oh, I feel so good. This is why, I mean, this is, this is why I have so much respect for coaches and trainers. It's like, I can't think of another job where if you have a 50% fail rate, you're crushing. Like if you're a trainer. Baseball. And half, that's a 300. That's, yeah, that's even more. If you're a trainer and half of your clients eventually develop long-term success, you are crushing it. You're like the most successful, like one of the most successful trainers in the world. That's how tough. That's my appreciation for the sport of baseball. It's one of the things that makes it so unique. I guess you could say basketball there, but basketball, it's even higher shooting percentage. It would be considered really good. Yeah, baseball, if you're batting 300, you're a killer. Imagine what do you think about that? What a tough mental sport? Like it doesn't get enough credit for the mental game that it has exactly. You are going to get to the play and you're going to fail seven times at a 10. If you're lucky, most of the time, you'll probably fail eight times. Like that's, you know, like that takes a lot of mental discipline. I would even argue training's harder because you're dealing with people. So you're not striking out. It's like, oh, sorry, Ms. Johnson. Yeah, you're not just dealing with your own emotions. You're dealing with their emotions too. That's why I tell trainers, I say, you know, rule number one, it's all your fault. Rule number two, don't own any of it. Like you got to do both. If you're going to be successful at this, you know, really tough. Anyway, I want to tell you guys about the, we are here in the future. I just read something the other day. The future is here. Doug, can you look up that protein for me? I heard about this. So yesterday I did our meeting with our, some of our staff and I tell, I tell our team, if you guys ever come across something that you think would be interesting to bring up on the show, a topic idea or whatever, let me know. Oh, this came from them? Yes, came from them. Oh, I love that. I think it was, was it Margaret? I think it was, it was either Rob or Margaret that brought this up. This, no sponsorship or anything like this. I'm not advocating for the company. I don't know if it's a good product. I just thought this was crazy. Vegan whey protein. Is that possible? Okay. When like, what is the definition of whey? When they said that, I was like, wait, how is that possible? I say it's animal free, not vegan. Animals. Okay, so it's animal free. So it's animal free whey protein. I know this is very confusing. It's whey, it's animal free and it's not vegan. They literally make it. Doug, if you scroll down, they tell you how you make it. I'll tell you from strawberries. It smells like animals. No, it'll tell you the step right there. How we do it. Read that right there, Doug, where the molecules are. Yeah, so what they do is they take micro flora that are given with an exact copy of DNA corresponding to cow's milk protein. Infermentation tanks, the flora graces on flora food and converts it into animal free milk protein. In the final step, the flora is filtered out, leaving pure animal free whey protein that is identical to the protein found in cow's milk. Is it? So do they take the bacteria from the animal? No, they take bacteria. No, they take bacteria. Yeah, but where is the bacteria? And they modify the bacteria. What bacteria? I thought they'd get the bacteria. Okay, this is confusing to me. No, they modify the bacteria. But they get the bacteria originally from cow's milk. Did I hear you correctly? No. That's what it sounded like you said. That's what I'm trying to construct, no. Yeah, it's exact copy of the DNA. So they take bacteria. Okay, so it's through CRISPR technology or whatever. Okay, so they're cloning basically cow's milk. No. No, no, cloning, cloning, okay. No, I don't think cloning would be the right thing. Okay, but you know what, okay, copying. Yeah, copying. Okay, they're copying it. You still need the animal milk though for them to. No. For the 90s kids. No, you don't need anything. Cow's could disappear off the face of the earth and they'll be able to make whey protein. So they take bacteria, they insert DNA into it to make the bacteria create the amino acids, the proteins. So it basically changes the, oh, interesting. Yeah, and now we have whey protein. Well, isn't that pretty much what a probiotic does to our guts? It goes in and it actually, does it modify the bacteria or is it just populating new healthy bacteria? No, no, no, this is totally different. This is like, what's our company that we work with? Seed? No, for alcohol. Oh, Zebiotic. Zebiotic. Zebiotic is bacteria that's been modified. Right. This is bacteria that's been modified. So now it produces whey protein. Hey, does it not look exactly like they hired Magic Spoon's company to do their... Absolutely, it looks exactly the same. It looks so much like Magic Spoon. Now, so if you're a vegan, right, now like real, okay, I'm not gonna say real vegans. Vegans, I did say real or fake. Vegans who are consistent, who stay vegans for life, if you look at the data, are people who actually believe in the betterment of animals and the welfare of animals. This is why they do it. People who become vegan because they think it's healthier, they have a fail rate like any diet. So, vegans who care about animals, don't want to harm any animals, there's protein now that they can have whey protein. What is the... Well, there you go. How crazy is that? What's the psychology around why some people are attracted to become activists? To become activists? Yeah, do you know? They need purpose, probably. You just guessing? I'm guessing. Can you search that for me? Why do people become activists? Yeah, I mean, there's gotta be a psychological thing that causes you to all of a sudden feel this desire or need. Well, we saw it. You know, it's striking it for me, right? Or what's prompting this right now for me. I watched the Pamela Anderson documentary last night. So... What does it have to do with that? I'm trying to see where this goes. Well, after everything went really bad for her when that video was stolen, then went viral, like it totally flipped her life upside down So really, it's kind of a sad story when you see kind of her rise and fall. And one of the things that like reinvigorated her career or her like purpose or whatever was she decided to use her character that they were basically kind of mocking and stuff like that to become an activist for PETA. And up to that point, she was like not vegan, none of those things like that. And she read something or did something that made her... Sounds to me like she needed a sense of purpose and meaning. That's why I'm prompted to ask this question because I thought about it. I was like, that's really interesting, right? Like this is not a person who like her whole life was like thought about like saving animals' lives and like that. There's just something happened in her life. And then it triggered her to become this activist. And then there's some sort of probably a feedback loop that's happening psychologically for them to like, oh, wow, when I did this, this felt really good. And so I'm gonna do more of it and keep going. Like... I'm sure, yeah, there's some instances of trauma that are things too that might, you know, spark them to want to make a change or a difference. You got anything from me, Doug? Yeah, so it says those who find personal meaning in current events are inclined to speak out for a cause. Individuals are more likely to feel a personal connection if they see themselves as part of a community affected by an issue. So that makes sense, right? She's been ostracized by most people so that she found a community that would adopt her and bring her in. They love her because she's already got leverage and power because of her name. And so it becomes this beautiful... She's struggling so she's got a sense of purpose. Now, Jordan Peterson talked about this when we watched him talk. He talked about how movements have religious undertones. Now, the ones that tend to be parasitic are the ones that don't have the complete story. That don't paint the good and the bad. They just show the bad or whatever. And then it's unbalanced. But I mean, that's what it is. All right, more cool science stuff. I've been reading about fat loss in cannabinoids. Did you guys know that people that use cannabinoids on a regular basis? This is cool. Every time you say cannabinoids, I can't help but think of avoid the noid. Oh, that's old man. I hate when I try and use it. I mess it up every time I do it. Domino's, Domino's Pizza. God, they're gonna bring him back. You guys know that? Didn't they, they did. They brought him back to New York. They brought him back like a year ago or whatever. Did I miss that? Yeah, I thought you talked about it. In fact, I think we brought it up on the podcast. I think we did. Did you forget your intro? This was pre-peptides. Can we come up with like an acronym like B-C-A-D, you know what I'm saying? For Justin, like pre-... P-P-P. Yeah, no, it's J-P-P-P. Justin, J-P-P. Justin, pre-peptides. Are you seeing this now in supplements? Is that what you're saying? Well, no, well, so check this out. And so this is at risk of selling, you know, cannabinoids as fat loss. So let's not, we're not gonna go with that. But it is interesting that people that utilize cannabinoids on a regular basis tend to consume more calories. Okay, well, that's not surprising. They tend to stimulate appetite, but they're also leaner. They have lower BMI's. So this is like this, and this is well studied. So I looked it up and I've seen all these studies on it. And it's like this paradox. People use a lot of cannabinoids, consume more calories, and yet have lower BMI. The theory is that the cannabinoid, the CB1 receptor, so this is what a receptor that cannabinoids attach to, cannabinoids, CBD doesn't attach to the cannabinoid receptors, but it definitely modulates them. THC obviously, and you know, there's a plethora of cannabinoids in the hemp plant that activate the CB1 and CB2 receptors. The CB1 receptor plays a role in energy metabolism in the body. So they think speeding up the metabolism. So cannabinoids speed up the metabolism. Or, or, they don't control for how high these people are. They thought they ate. Yeah, they thought they ate, they really didn't eat. Wow, you don't like them. I actually forgot to give you history shopping. I'm pretty sure I had a whole pizza. Pretty sure I did. I'm gonna report that. Well, I don't know. Anyway, we work with a company called Ned that has full spectrum employee likes tracks. Not saying it helped you burn body fat, but looked up the studies. Great commercial, I liked that one. It is kind of weird when you look at that. You know what I'm really interested in? We have a, when does the Chris Williamson episode go, Doug? Yeah, so this one goes out on, I think tomorrow. Oh wow, oh awesome. So this will be cool. I'm really fascinated by that. What's it called, the region beta paradox that he talked about? I think that's a really interesting conversation that I've never really heard anyone talk about before that many people get trapped in. Totally. So the way he explains it, he uses such a good analogy. He says, imagine that there's something that's a mile away. So it's close enough to walk. So you walk a mile to your destination and let's say that takes you 30 minutes to get there. But now imagine that that same destination is two miles away. So you're like, ah, it's too far to walk. Let me get in the car. So now you drive there and only takes you seven minutes. So the paradox is you get somewhere faster that's further because you're using a car. And the examples he gives are like, you're in a relationship, it's not great, but it's not so bad that it forces you to leave. So you stick around. But if it just got worse, you'd leave and then turn your life around and get into a better relationship. So it's called the region beta paradox. And I think a lot, I mean, I can remember a time in my life. I think I've mentioned it before on the show when the time in my life, before I left 24 hour fitness, I would say there was a good three to four years I was stuck in that paradox. I was content with the amount of money I made. I liked what I did. I liked being in the gym. Like you all remember with that environment. So I guess it was a fun work environment, but deep down in the back of my mind, I knew I wanted more. I knew I wanted to do much more, but I was content enough. There wasn't enough to shake me up. And to be honest, I'm very grateful for the stuff that had happened right before I left because it was enough to kind of rattle me. Did something happen right before? Yeah, so it was in combination. So like I had a, and it probably took this, both these things happening. We had like the seventh plan change since I had worked there. By the way, comp plan change is code for, we're going to pay less. Yeah, we're ticking money or paycheck. That's right. Here's the thing that, what I will give 24 our fitness their flowers for is they actually, every time they changed the comp plan up into this point, they still left the door open for the top, top performer to still go out and get his money. Right. They made me work harder. Right. And I had to go do some other things, but it was still the opportunity was there. Like they made it, and what they were continuing to do was just like, all right, if we're going to keep paying these people this kind of money, they're going to have to do this, this and this. You know, oh, we can do this and this. What eventually happened and what was really the straw that broke the camel's back with me was, they put a ceiling. It didn't matter how much I did or how much I sold or how well over goal. They capped it. They capped it. They put a cap. To a guy like you. That would have killed me too. Yeah, I mean, it's like taking a limb from me or something, you know what I'm saying? Like I was no longer fully complete anymore. So I was already there and then I get somebody offering me more money than I've ever made in my life to go and pursue this medical marijuana field that I knew nothing about. I knew nothing about. But. You didn't even smoke weed at this time. I didn't, I didn't. I didn't. In fact, that was kind of an anti weed guy for sure. So, could I- Hold on, did you tell, I never asked you this. Did you tell the people at 24 Fitness what you were going to do? I didn't not only tell them, but the first Cannabis Club we opened was across the street. Across the street. Yeah. You know those medicals right there and Sanatrisa, they're across the border? That was our first club. Oh my, were they like- So I used to, I used to go back and forth. Yeah, hey, I'm leaving Fitness. Gonna go sell weed. Yeah. Well, you know what happened? I've already told you this story when we were, this is, remember I was completely green to like weed. Like it, so I'm still like easy my way into trying it and how I feel. And I was at the, I was getting, we were just starting to build the store up. People with vendors were coming in and dropping off samples for us to try and stuff like that. And I am running this club. So I'm going to try these things so I can communicate about them. I'm learning all about them. And so I would try all these different strains. This guy comes in one morning with these teas and coffees and hot chocolates, all these pre-packaged stuff. And, and tells me the dosage that's in there. So with that, I said, listen, I'm really sensitive to this stuff. You know, is this high dose, low dose. Oh no, no, no, it's very, very mild. You probably won't even feel it. Maybe a little bit if you had like this one or that one or what that. So I decided to try it. And at noon, I had to go back and do a talk at 24 Fitness. And I got so fucking high. It was one of the worst experiences of my life. You still did the talk? Yeah. I can't tell you, I have no idea. I said, and nobody was the wiser, but it was so like inside the anxiety that was. That's the best sweat. Oh, my drips have sweat off my palms. I was so like nervous. And, and it felt like it was the longest talk of my life. And I thought I rambled and mumbled and just. What a terrible experience. It was up there with like one of the most, you know, awful experiences that I ever went through. But yeah, I was, so yeah, I was, I was going back. But if it wasn't for the combination of someone offering a ridiculous amount of money and I just recently got that news, also actually, we had a new GM came in. So I was working with this girl that was relatively new to the company. We adopted her from Circuit City when they did that whole birch. So I now have a partner like so at the gyms, GM, FM and OM were like partners. I was like, the three of us ran a club together. And I always got along with my GMs and so with that. And here I get this person who's an outsider because they come from another company. And like maybe in Circuit City, she was really good. She just didn't know shit about fitness. And then like, she was trying to micromanage me. And like, and because she wasn't in, she didn't. And you're not, you're not exactly the most political communicator. And yeah, you know, I had a reputation in the space if you'd been there for long enough. So I got the respect from my peers, but if you didn't know who I was, so she didn't. So she comes in like all authoritarian, not knowing her shit. Yeah, so like it took all of that to finally rock my world. And then of course I look back now, it was one of the best decisions I ever made in my life, although scary and difficult, not necessarily like necessary, I could have stayed there. So I mean, how many people get trapped in this place physically, you know, emotionally in relationships and work? Well, I immediately think of all the cubicles out there. Yeah, like what, what, it's that comfortably numb as they call it, right? Like you just get in, you check in, you do the nine to five, you go home and it's just like you're getting paid just enough to keep going, but you're just not really motivated to look for another job. Cause this is the safe thing. This is where everything's like controlled. Do you know how many startups like that now are these amazing companies that happened because of recessions where people got, they lost their jobs. And they were brilliant, but they were, you know, like this, they were comfortable or whatever. They lost it. So like, all right, I'm going to start a company. I'm already fired. Let me just take this big risk. It's crazy to think that and the whole idea, the paradox is that, you know, something negative or worse happening to you would actually be better. Yeah. That's the, the- That's life, man. It's crazy to think that you, if you were in that position that you technically should be wishing or praying for something traumatic or bad to happen to you to kind of- Oh, that didn't wake you up? How about this? Yeah, yeah. And I mean, many times I think those things happen and then we, instead of using that as a sign or motivation to move you in the right direction, we take the victim role. Hey, I said- It sucks for me or poor me versus like, it's a sign. I need to move my ass. I mean, my severe gut health issues that I had in my early 30s that literally were terrible, they were terrible. It was a year of hell. If I, that never happened to me. And then, you know, when it's happening, that's the thing. When you're in the middle of it, you don't think, oh, this is good for me. You think this sucks. This is terrible. But if that never happened to me, I would have never pursued wellness and health the way that I did after. I was a meathead. Up until that point, I would have never moved in the direction of the voice that you hear now on the podcast. Had I not gone through that health crisis. Yeah, you wouldn't have started eating organic food. No. I bring that. Can you guys see that video from Whole Foods? Talk about Whole Foods. What is this? ABC. It was like some piece that they were talking about, actually their brand. It was like 365 organic, I think is their brand. So a lot of the frozen vegetables that they get are directly from China, which is not regulated specifically. And it's the same guys of how they regulate organic foods here. And so people are like, wow, I didn't know. It was very sneaky. Because you look on the back of the label and you could see direct from China or like process in China or made in China. And people started to be like, what is this? I didn't know that that was Whole Foods. So I read about this. I don't know any specific brands because, so you guys know this, we've been doing this long enough. The organic market was so small when I was back in the day, when I was training that in order to find organic food, you had to go to an organic grocery store. And Whole Foods was the only place. You couldn't find organic foods at Safeway, Lucky, Albertsons, anywhere else. Now they have Whole Sections and it's a huge market. Costco didn't have organic food. And then it totally exploded. And the market demand was so high that American organic producers couldn't meet demand. So they import the hell out of these foods. And you're right, when it's coming from a country like China, they don't- These are the same regulations? No, I don't know. Well, and it's also opened the door because it's so competitive now for all these shady gray areas. Like you ever see, you gotta be careful with grass-fed beef even, that it's grass-finished. Grass-fed grass-finished. They're the very end that can categorize it that way. Yeah, they can categorize it as grass-fed beef if they fed it most of its life beef. But yeah, for the last two, or whatever, I think it's the last two weeks or a month or whatever with that, they fatten them up like crazy, by pumping them full of grains and stuff. Doug, maybe look this up. I think grass-fed technically means that they only have to be fed grass for like, it's like a small- Yeah. Yeah, it's not even like half their life. It was something like, or maybe half their life, it was something small. And then after that, they feed them grains. And remember, when you're in these for-profit businesses, that they're going to skate the lines as closely as possible, just like I always talk about the 20% room for error on labels, it's like if you are naive to think that you're a weight loss type of food, right? Like you advertise- You're gonna go 20 under. Yeah, you advertise low calorie, high protein. You're not going to lie by 20% because you're technically not quote-unquote lying because that's part of how they allow that room for error. So it's like, they're gonna skirt those lines. What's to say, Doug? Yeah, so cattle that were started on a grass diet but have either received supplemental grain feed or are finished on a fully grain-based diet are considered grass-fed. Okay. I'm not seen in the exact time. But what constitutes grass-fed? Yeah, that's what I got basically. Oh, you did? Yeah, I'm trying to find the details here. Interesting. Speaking of weird stuff, what do you guys think of that video of Paul Pelosi? Okay, so here's going back on this before we get into that. Grass-fed standard is built on two key criteria, namely a minimum of 90% of an animal's diet during their lifetime on a fresh weight basis. Whatever that means must be grass or grass-based forages. Okay, better than I thought. Anyway, Paul Pelosi. Okay, so this whole thing happens, right? I'm even more confused. Super confused. Some guy attacked him with a hammer in his house. Wait, wait, lay out the beginning, Sal, for me. Like, how did they portray this initially? He called Capitol Police, but the regular cops show up. And the story was that he got attacked by some crazy person who broke into his house. Run in the bathroom and he called or something like that. Something like that. And he got hit by a hammer and it was a tack or whatever. And so then you had these conspiracy theories where like, actually it's his lover and they're covering something up and then the other side is like, no, this person was attacked. Anyway, they showed the video, the body cam video from the cops. And it just made me more confused because they opened the door. First of all, Paul Pelosi opened the door. It's like they're frozen together, right? They're just looking at the cops. And he's like, he looks like he's almost holding guys' hand and he's got a drink in the other hand. Like he's got an alcoholic beverage. Yeah, he's holding. He's got no pants on. He's still had ice in his cup. He's got a button-up shirt with no pants and barefoot. And a mixed drink. And he's holding on to, it looks like a beer or something. And then the other hand, he's like gingerly holding his wrist. He's not like gripping. He's like, almost like he's holding his hand but he's holding his wrist. And that dude has got a hammer in his other hand. And when he answers the door to the cops, he says like, hey, what's up? Hey, hey guys. And then there's this weird, awkward moment of nothing happening. And then all of a sudden the dude with the hammer starts swinging at Paul Pelosi. He went for it, no doubt. Now there's video of the guy breaking into his house with the hammer. So he did break in. It was weird, you open the door that way. Plus he wanted Capitol Police. He didn't want the regular police. So there's like, all this- It just seemed like they're waiting for the police to show up to then all of a sudden, now we're gonna do the drama. What is that? I was so, again, to me it's just like so many questions that it's hard for me to just take it as just, oh, this guy broke in and- Part of me is like maybe he was like trying to keep the guy calm. So he's like, let me just go see who's at the door. Let me just see what's happening, right? So maybe that, I don't know though, if a dude broke in my house with the hammer- She still hit me yet. Yeah, if a guy broke in my house with a hammer though, I don't know if I'd answer the door of the cops like, I'd be like, help me! You know, I'd run out or whatever. Yeah, exactly, like, oh, you're here, huh? Yeah, but I don't know- Something. It feels totally staged, but what I can't wrap my brain around is why. Oh yeah. Like what is the desired outcome of staging something like that? I don't think it was staged, I think it was. I think there's more to the story though. Obviously, there's more to the story. I mean, you have- Why'd they hold the intrigue? Well, it feels like they are- What's crazy is how this will get- Between the two of them, whatever that was. What's crazy is how this will get brushed out of the rug is like no big deal. And no one will be talking about it in a week, right? And I just think it's like, that there's something here that is very obvious if you watch that video. Like that is not, there's nothing normal about that situation. And to just be like, oh, he was like a random attacker and that's what happened. He's now doing 30 days in jail with that. And then we're on going about our business. It's just, I don't know. I know. I watched the video like 10 times. I'm like, why is he holding a drink? Why is he holding his wrist that way? Why is he smiling? Katrina didn't want to watch it. I made her watch it. I was like, you have to watch this and try and explain to me what you see here. She's like, what the fuck? This is weird. Yes, right? Like, I don't get it, dude. I can't figure this out right now. You know that? Those videos on YouTube, the Aussie man commentaries, I want him to do a commentary on it. That would be fantastic. What are those? What do you say? That Aussie man, there's videos playing and he speaks with a real strong Aussie man. Oh, there's a guy who does that. It's hilarious. Every once in a while I see those go viral where they're dubbing over a lot of times they do it with senators and stuff like that. Is that who you're talking about? No, no, no. That's bad lip reading, but I love those. Oh, that's my favorite. I like, those are great. Those are good. You have to really, to be able to. It looks like that's what they're saying. I wonder how long it takes because he probably watches it without the sound and all that. And he's just probably looking at it and just probably writing notes of like, it kind of looks like he said turkey or whatever. Do you think that person has like a lip reading skill going into that and that's why he can do that? Because think about what the skill would take to do that. To actually script something without spending hours. Where do you learn that skill? I don't know. Lip reading? Maybe he's deaf. Oh yeah, that's true. That would actually be interesting to look into that because that you have to have a skill to be able to listen to it silently and then come up with a funny. That's the weird kid that's very observant. You know, he's just looking at people's tics and everything. I agree with Justin. Oh, you don't think it. I think he's weird and creative. Yeah, I don't think it's. I've known kids like that. Oh no, I bet he's got a lip reading skill. You've known kids like that. Yeah, they're just like, dude, this was a pastime of mine. Like we would sit on a bench and we would like portray characters for these people and walk by. And we would like make up stories for them and like, you know, voice over them. We do that all the time, dude. Hey, let me tell you something. When Katrina and I first were dating, so she loves people watching, right? So she's like, that's my favorite. So I think it's part of the gym, right? When you work in the gym, like that was one of my favorite parts. By the way, gym men, like companies figured this out. They used to make the cardio face the TVs, new gyms. The cardio face is the weight room because people prefer to watch people instead of the TV while they're working. It's way more entertaining, yeah. So Katrina and I would always do this. We did this for years when we first started dating and we would be out on dates and stuff like that. And we'd see another couple and we would pretend to have their conversation. Yeah. So she would take on the role of the chick. I'd take on the role of the guy and we would be watching them in the corner of our eyes but then been trying to act out with her. Have you guys ever done this? This has happened to Jessica and I, like watching TV shows. And it might even happen in public ones. Have you guys ever had an argument with your significant other by proxy? Like in other words? What do you mean? You're watching a TV show and the couple is getting an argument. Oh, they're arguing on something that's kind of in the course. And then you take the guy's side and then she takes the girl and then you end up getting a fight over the TV show. I hate that so bad. That happened to Jessica. She's not paying attention to Linda. Well, maybe she's acting crazy. Maybe she's acting crazy all the time. Whoa, well, you know, he's not paying attention to me to go back and forth. It happened a couple of times and at the end I was like, this is so stupid. Why are you over TV show? We're fighting over a reality show. It's like we're getting a fight because it's some dream your wife has the night before. It's not in there. You know, Katrina is notorious for that one. She gets mad at you for her dreams. Oh, cause she has very like vivid dreams. I told you, she has like the dream book. They all mean something. So there'll be times she wakes up and she's like in a bad mood with me. And I'm just like, what is wrong with you? She's like, I had a bad dream about you. And like giving me like this dirty look. Like I did something. I'm like, wait a second. You're gonna be mad at me cause of your crazy ass dream. I'm like, how's that work? You did it in my dream. I know. Speaking of dreaming, the gold juice from Organifi. I just started using that again before bed. So relaxing. It does help with sleep. It really does. Very, very relaxing. Now you do that like in a, like warm it up. Yes. Yes. Macadamia nut milk. Okay. Yeah. And I have one of those, what are those things called? This little swifter. Swifter. Swifter is what you do your floors. No, he's seen a swifter. Yeah, swifter. You know what though? That sounds like it should be a swifter. I know. Somebody was like, I'm gonna start a company. Swifter. Yeah. It's a brand. Hey, can you swif my drink real quick? Make sure it's all swifted. Real good. But no, macadamia nut milk, warm about an hour before bed. Do you know what their top products are sold? They're green juice. I know that's one of them. I know that's one of them. No, they've, is that because they've just had it the longest? Oh, that's spectacular. Yeah. It's got to be gold. It's probably like green gold. I would think pure is on the move, dude. Cause that's, I mean, that's one I've been like promoting. Well, I remember when we first like started working with them, like, and we used to talk about the green juice all the time because my entire fitness career, uh, I knew I under eight vegetables. And so I was wise enough to attempt to do green juices and they always tasted like grass grass. Yeah. I remember, I remember, I remember like literally drinking these green juices and being like, fucking terrible vegetables are better. Like I'll just eat the stupid ass vegetables. Cause I didn't like vegetables, right? Those like sprout thing. It's like you're literally just eating a hedge. They were, uh, it was terrible. And then when we got introduced to organified, they were honestly the first green juice that actually tasted good. Yeah. I was not, not bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, the stuff that they would make you eat, not organified, but like the green stuff, like the sprouts and stuff. Like when I would eat that, I just think to myself like, this is what people would eat when they can't find food. What am I a cow? Yeah. Like if you're starving, this is what you would eat because there's no food. Otherwise, why would you eat this? What's that? What is that that they used to do this at smoothie bars where they would juice something for you and it's a dark green. Oh yeah. Wegrass. Disgusting. Disgusting. Yeah. What? Nasty. Terrible. But the chlorophyll apparently in it is supposed to be really good for you because it mimics or it looks like red blood cells. That's the selling point. I never got benefit from it. Is the chlorophyll the stuff that you had me taken way back in, you know, COVID days? And that was that chlorophyll? Oh, that's chlorine. No, no, no. Where's the thing, those droppers, those illegal droppers you gave me? Yeah. Wait, hold on a second. Why is there chlorophyll? It wasn't, for one, it wasn't, no. It was chlorine dioxide. Told you chlorine. Oh, I thought I said chlorophyll, I don't remember. Yeah. No, chlorophyll is green. But you don't dare say that because you'll get a lot of heat now. I know, I just passed that out. No, you know what, let me see you right here. Don't go anywhere. But chlorophyll, by the way, you know, if you have heavy metals, that's good for getting those out of your body. That's just. I ran a poll because I have the Mindput Media thing today and I was just interested. You get the Mindput Media page shadow man too. No, no, I just, OK, so I was just curious, like I asked about how many people got the vaccine. This is what I brought up the other day about now that a lot of stuff is coming out. You know, I was voicing my frustration with my friends and family that like haven't like come forward and like apologize or even admitted like I kind of regretted it or whatever, right? And so I was like, you know, OK, that's my own personal experience. And maybe that's just a few people in my life. I wonder if that's the, you know, the average person who pays attention or listens to us or what that. So I did a poll on there that's saying like, how many people got the vaccine? How many got it, didn't get it, regret it, and don't regret it. And the number that I was most interested in was the how many people got it. And then if they regret it or not regret it and 24% of the people that took the poll in our audience got it. And of the 24%, 26% of those people regretted. Wow, a full quarter. Yeah, yeah. And only only 6% admitted that they didn't regret it. So that was a very, very small percentage of people who got it that follow us. Obviously, this is interesting. A bit of a you know what I'm seeing now. And I don't know. This is what I hate about politics is that the politics politicians, political parties use the media very effectively. So I don't know what to believe half the time. So you know what I'm noticing now? I'm noticing all these articles from right wing, right? Propaganda, you know, I guess outlets, that every day they'll post a new young person that died randomly every day. So-and-so 24 year old died suddenly. So-and-so 36 year old died. And I'm like, you know, young people die all the time. Are they doing this to make people of a particular particular way? Of course they are. That's why they're just as guilty. You'd number is from when we were in, you know, the, cause that's the thing. It's like, you want like this emotional response. And so to drum that up, sometimes you gotta- One of the best things that ever happened to the radical right or Fox news is when the crazy left comes out with some bullshit because then they can counter it. Now they have, then they're playwright. Of course they playwright. So I have family members, right? That are- You gotta be able to see that too. This is okay. So I love, so I don't love this. Well, maybe I do because I'm kind of an asshole this way. But I, you know, I have family members that are like super conservative, right? And I mean, super to the point where they, they love the propaganda side of it. And they'll share stuff like that all the time. Like, oh my God, another kid died, you know, 17. Another person died. What's going on? I'm like, there's a 300 million people in America. This happens every day. Are you sure that you're not, they're not manipulating you just like, no, the other side manipulates not this. Okay. That's how you know you're getting manipulated. 100%. Meanwhile, they're all having lunch together afterwards. You know what I'm saying? Hey, so you guys want to hear a stupid study? I love studies that are- As long as it's really stupid. It's just, it's just, sometimes I look at studies and I really, did you really fund this? Okay. So there was a study- I feel that way about most studies just so you know. There was a study. Adam's like, what are studies, are you real? Dinosaurs aren't real. Hey, hey, I don't, you know- Adam, do you think dinosaurs are real? No, I don't actually. There are a bunch of bones that were, that they put, have you ever seen the thing? You know what Jason, just Jason, Justin put me down in the rabbit hole because I heard him make a comment. Wait, are you really? You didn't put this on me? Yeah, he made a comment about something and I'm like, I have never searched this before. I have never taken a- Where are you going with this? How you can arrange dinosaur bones to create like actual animal, other animals. And- Oh yeah. And so there's this, there's obviously conspiracy theorists that are like- No. You know, all he did was take a mixture of a bear and this and that and then you put this bone for that and you put them all together and then you get this like Triceratops. Brontosaurus and beemer wouldn't fit on any other animal. Yeah, yeah, that's possible. Adam, that's hilarious. I do not believe that by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Me joking around. I know before you get a bunch of, so here, so dumb study, okay? So they did a study and they said, you know, what can people do to prevent themselves from cheating? So people who have a tendency to want to stray, like what's an effective thing they could do? And so the study concluded that if they put themselves in the other person's shoes they were less likely to sneeze. Stupid. What a stupid conclusion. Imagine if you got cheated on. Ooh, I wouldn't like that. Mark that down. Think we found the secret, everybody? This is a study. Love them. The dumb study. Who you have for a shout out? Oh, I got a YouTube page this time. So this was shared to me by Rob, who works for us. It's a YouTube page for kids. So he has a little, he has a two year old and he says, you got to check out this YouTube channel. It's really fun. My kid loves it. Songs for Littles, it's a YouTube channel for little kids. He said it's really great. I watched it for two seconds. Looks cool, but I haven't looked at the whole thing. So I'm going to caution with that, because Katrina is the one who's stricter about this than I am, is like we don't really allow Max on YouTube because how easily they can- Because of the ads and everything. Ads and how they can, real quickly they can be watching a child's children thing and because it's connected to a dinosaur that's connected to Jurassic Park, the movie, which is then connected to an actor that's in there is now connected. And then before you know it, you get this adult content that they're looking at. Bro, that happened to my daughter. She was on YouTube when she was little and I was looking at what she was watching and it was superhero stuff. So Spider-Man, Superman, Wonder Woman and they were tying up Wonder Woman, almost like BDSM. They were tying her up and doing stuff to her and I'm like, what the hell turned that off? I'm like- That was like purposeful too. Do you remember that? Yeah, the Spider-Man guy. Yeah, they filmed it specifically to get in that category. Yeah, I mean I'm super, Katrina's got me all paranoid about him now and like I saw the- This shenanigans they need to clean up. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, of all the platforms, it's actually the one that I'm most weary about with him being on because of how quickly you can go down the rabbit hole and then be- Plus, I also read, and they're trying to figure out how to fix this, in the comments of videos, there are people that will post links and places to search for, you know, like not good stuff. Like they'll put like code words and there's a link. So like people looking for like, you know, underage sexual content or whatever. We'll go to a video, look in the comments, that's where they find the stuff. So there's big investigation going on about that. I know, kill them all. So maybe we'll not recommend that. Hey, check this out. Did you know that there's natural products that can help enhance your sexual performance? Backed by science, it's true. You can go to the prescription route with their side effects or you can go natural and actually feel the results. There's a company called Joy Mode that uses only science backed ingredients with science backed dosages. Try it out, it actually works. Go to usejoymode.com forward slash mind pump or use the code mind pump at checkout for 20% off your first order. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Pam from California. Hey Pam, how can we help you? Hey guys, well first I wanna thank you for having me on. And it's really great to listen to a podcast that's informative and entertaining. Thank you. Thank you. I am asking about hormones for perimenopausal women. I'm just gonna read my question. I'm wondering if you have any answers regarding perimenopausal women getting estrogen replacement therapy and how it affects you in regards to weight, muscle mass and body fat. Great question. Can I ask you what your symptoms were? Why you went on estrogen? I did not go on estrogen. I don't want to go on estrogen. So a little context, I'm 46. I have been a lifelong cardio girl until about last June. And since then I have gained about 10 pounds, some of it intentionally, some of it not. And granted I probably needed to gain some of that weight. I started with night sweats a few months ago and a few years ago I started having a lot of issues with sleep. So my concern is weight gain. I'm not gonna lie, I am a fitness fanatic and I wanna stay lean, I wanna stay fit. And... Okay, great question. So Pam, you mind if I ask you some more questions? Yeah. Okay. Do you have a history of any dysfunctional eating or let's say unhealthy? Okay. When I was in college, so I was like 20, 25 years old. But as you know, those thoughts don't totally go away. Yeah, they never do. They never do. I can totally relate to that because I struggled with my own body image issues and it'll still rear its head when I'm under stress or I feel like life's a little out of control. Yes. You said you gained 10 pounds and you kind of made the comment that you feel like, well, you probably should have gained or you needed to gain that 10 pounds? Last April, I was about a buck 12. Okay. And which was way too, I'm five seven, way too skinny for me, I know that. So I intentionally increased my calories from about probably 2000 calories to around 2,300. By the summer, I was around 116. I was happy with that. And then I started, I got your book, I started one of your programs, June 1st, I ran that. Then I tried KB4A, I liked that. So then I did anabolic and I gained the rest of the weight pretty much from when I started anabolic until now. Okay. And you're five seven, so that puts you at 122? Yeah. Okay. How would you feel about intentionally trying to put on more body weight and body fat? Well, I backed off going on the scale so much, I had a Dex had done in November because I was freaking out about it. And my body fat at that time was around 14 and a half percent. Yeah. Okay. So I've been doing this a long time, okay? And just based on the way that you're answering my questions and some of the information that you're giving me, I'm gonna say that you've had some kind of issues with body image in the past. Yeah. I think a lot of what you may be feeling is due to the fact that you probably need to put on more weight and more body fat. The female body in particular is quite sensitive to being too lean or too high under stress, physical stress. So if you exercise a lot, you're not necessarily feeding yourself enough, then you'll start to exhibit symptoms of low estrogen or you may have low estrogen or you'll have an imbalance of estrogen and progesterone. And you'll notice things like low libido, irritability, sleep disturbances, hair, skin and nails will seem like they're not as healthy. Obviously, go ahead. I'm sorry. The thing is, is I've always been skinny. Like I've never had a problem with my weight, but when I started your programs, I intentionally like cut out a lot of cardio. So because I wanted to do your program and gain some strength and gain some muscle. So I don't know. Well, look, if you were my client, and by the way, this is gonna be, this is not, this will be hard. Okay, this can be hard for you. For a couple of reasons. One, because of your past, that you're afraid of gaining weight, you're not weighing yourself. And so that tells me right there that you may be triggered from seeing the scale change in the direction you don't want to. You know, it's gonna be tough, but I would say try and move in that direction. Try and move in the direction, continue moving in the direction of strength, of eating more calories. In particular, you wanna give yourself the essential nutrients, fats and proteins, although carbohydrates are not bad. So I would eat carbs as well. But really push yourself and move yourself in that direction. Don't weigh yourself on the scale. Your best gauge is going to be your strength in the gym. In fact, you're following some of our programs. Do you have MAPS PowerLift? No, actually I'm finishing aesthetic now and I was gonna do strong. Strong is fine, but I think PowerLift would be even better because the goal that I would want you to focus on is strengthening. If your strength is moving up, you're going in the right direction. Also what it'll do is it'll take your focus away from body to performance. And that is in my experience, when I've worked with people in your situation, the easiest transition is to go from body to performance. To go from body to ignoring the body to, it's like you need to focus on something. So if I can get you to focus on strength and all you do is single-mindedly, I wanna get my bench press, my deadlift and my squat to go up. And if those are going up, then you're doing the right thing. If they're not going up, then you probably need to eat more. You probably need to bump your calories a little more. So just try to get as strong as you can with MAPS PowerLift. I'll send that to you, okay? I'm gonna send that over to you. I also want you in the forum, Pam, because I- I am in your forum. Oh, wonderful. I want updates. I want you to tag me, tag the guys. Let us know what's going on because you're gonna need support this entire time because here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna get stronger. You're gonna do what I'm saying. You're gonna say, okay, Sal said, eat more, push the strength. Then you may notice clothes may start to feel different. You notice your legs feel a little different. You're gonna want that support along the way. Now, what's gonna come along with that is improvements in mood, improvements in energy, improvements in sleep. All that will start to follow, but strength is gonna be the gauge I want you to measure the entire time. So if your strength is going up, you're moving in the right direction. That'll be the best indicator that you're doing everything the right way. At the end of that, if you've gained lots of strength and you start to feel good, I doubt you're gonna need to go on something like estrogen. You know, body fat can have a significant impact on a woman's hormone levels. Having too little body fat or not or overtraining or not feeding yourself enough or a combination of all three, almost always will cause a hormone imbalance, almost always. So once you fix those, then you may notice that you're like, okay, I think I feel a lot better. I don't, go ahead, I'm sorry. No, I just, I was gonna make a comment that I actually think that we're the wrong professionals in this conversation, meaning that I know your desired outcome of asking us because you respect our knowledge around weight training and body composition, and that is our expertise, but I also think that's the wrong focus for you right now. You need to do what's best for your body, and the advice that Sal's giving, I think is excellent advice, but the best support I think that you can get is from somebody who's helping you work through all those things that we all, I think that most people have it, very few people are willing to admit it and talk about it. I think the fact that you're open enough to share that. Oh, well, I've gotten, like, I'm recovered. I mean, that was a long time ago, but those thoughts, they just, they never go away, you know? You're always- 100%. 100%, and that to me, this whole thing will be that. It'll be that, the mental battle. It's less about the X's and O's from us, as far as like, oh, follow this eating and do this training. It's like more of like, these things are gonna rear its head. I need to make sure I'm mentally prepared for it, stay the course, do what's healthy for my body, not necessarily what I maybe want or wanna see, you know? And so, I do like the idea of they'll be in the forum. I think that we can be a great support, but absolutely, your body's probably asking you to put on a little bit of weight, and I think after you do that, I think you will sort of see things move in the right direction. And focusing on strength is just a great, it's a, in your case, it's a healthy distraction, it's a healthy direction, because what's gonna be tough for you is to change your focus and not have it go on something else, because it's gonna wanna go there. So if I could take your single-minded focus, you said you're a fitness fanatic, so I know you have that. If you could take your single-minded focus and make it strength and say, okay, I'm gonna follow mass power lift, let's see what I can do in the three big lifts. Let's see what I can hit in those three big lifts. It'll be a great, it'll give you enough space for you to move in the right direction. And then that space, it gives you the space for awareness is what it does, okay? So I'm giving you all the kind of like, why we do it, but I think that's the right direction. And then, yeah, Adam's absolutely right. Like if this is challenging in a more mental aspect, then yeah, you're probably gonna wanna work with someone along the way. Yeah, I understand that. But, cause what about the effects of estrogen on the woman's body? Cause I know men, they're testosterone tanks and they get testosterone. What about for women? Is that beneficial or is it, or the risks outweigh the benefits? No, so, okay, so, okay, I wanna disclaim or we're not doctors, but- I know that, yeah. Estrogen is extremely important hormone for both men and women for health, longevity, strength, muscle gain. So a man could have testosterone that's through the roof. His estrogen can be in the floor and you'll have trouble building muscle. So, and for women, estrogen that's too low. I mean, you feel like garbage, you can't, your body doesn't adapt well. But hormone, remember hormones are adaptive to your lifestyle, right? They tend to reflect your lifestyle. Now let's say you do everything right. Let's say you're healthy, you're following everything right, your body fat percentage is great, you're not too lean, you're feeding yourself, you're getting stronger, hormones are still a little off. Then you can look into hormone replacement or supplementation. At that point, what you're looking at is quality of life because the risk versus benefit really falls there. What's the quality of life benefit that I'm gonna get? But I would bet that if you moved in the right direction with your training nutrition, I would bet that your hormone levels would also move in the right direction. That's very, very likely. Yeah, I see that. But if somebody's estrogen is off and they're trying to do everything right and it's still off and they supplement and it brings it up to more optimal levels, they're going to react better to exercise. Pamela, are you in our Holistic Health Forum, the one with Dr. Cabral's team? No, I'm not. Oh yeah, they'll go there. Yeah, I think there'd be some value of you getting, it's a free forum, it's on Facebook. Yeah, it's Mind Pump, Holistic Health, and MP, MP, sorry, MP Holistic Health. And his team is incredible, they're in there and they do talk a lot about this stuff. And so, as you're going through it, that'll be another really good group to add to. Okay, no, I'll check it out for sure. All right, thanks for calling in and we'll send you mass power lift, okay? Thank you so much, guys. Thank you, Pam. All right, thanks. Okay, bye-bye. I tell you what is going through body image issue stuff was such a gift now, I can look back and be, because it's something I can recognize. Right away. Yeah, you can recognize it. You know, when you talk to somebody right away, you know, kind of what's going on. And people don't know, but they who are watching, they'll send us their full question. And there's information here that I can see that she didn't say on the podcast, like how she's trying to regulate her mood and irritability and libido and all this other stuff. And then based on how she's talking and what she's saying and her fear of gaining weight. And then of course I can see her on video. Like, you know, I had a pretty educated guess on kind of what was going on. That's why I asked her those questions. And that'll make a huge difference. But that doesn't mean she's gonna do it. That's the challenging thing is now you gotta do it. And you gotta fight that inner voice that says, oh my God, you're getting fat. Oh my God. I'm glad you brought up, you know, getting professional to kind of consult with as well in that regard in terms of like, you know, having some kind of another professional voice in there because a lot of this is just conversations that need to be had continuously. And it's not necessarily like, you know, here's the playbook and then just go do it because, you know, you could just see the resistance immediately to any kind of advice. And it's just, that's kind of the mental state that she's in. And so to be able to work through that, I think is would be the best. It's a quick default for me because I failed a lot of women that I trained that were in this position because I was trying to give them what I thought was what they wanted, which was the ants like, oh, you want to stay lean? So we'll do this. And we'll, you know, so I was being the coach with the answers with macros. You were dealing with the smoke, but not the fire. That's right. And so I'm very aware of it when I see it and know better than to even, even if I do have the answers to their question, I know there's an underlining thing that needs to be addressed. That's far more important than the questions that they're asking me. And so I almost always like just, I'm not the right guy for this. Same here. The only, the real success I had in situations where somebody had some dysfunctional relationships with diet and their bodies and that kind of stuff was when I worked concurrently with a therapist. I would get a client like this and I would eventually convince them to work with the therapist. Then the therapist and I would work together. That's when I saw success. But if they didn't have those us too, later on I got a little better because I had worked with so many therapists at that point that I kind of knew what questions to ask and kind of, you know, they asked me, how do I get lean and how do I get strong? And I knew like that's not really what we need to focus on. But if I didn't have that other support there, it was like, you see me twice a week, I'm training you. I'm not a professional therapist. Like this isn't going to necessarily work. Now that we covered that, I think it's also important to address that, you know, there tends to be two camps when it comes to taking exogenous hormones like estrogen, like either you're like super anti it, you should never do that or you're like pro default right away to it. And the truth is I've seen in both cases, I mean, I've seen someone who gets on estrogen and it's been life changing for them. It's in the middle, the answer's in the middle. Yeah, I've seen it completely change everything for them and they do one by taking that. And then I've seen other people where that wasn't the answer and there was other root causes. So, you know, this is not as simple as like don't or do. It's like, we need to investigate more. There's a lot more potentially going on here. Exogenous hormones are not the answer until they are the answer. And then they are the answer. Our next caller is Ryan from Maryland. Ryan, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey fellas. All right, so let me just jump in here. My question has to do with kind of a, how to prime oneself for your very first bulk. Just to give you a quick background, I am 38. About three years ago, I had this sort of, guess you can call it like a moment of clarity where I realized I wanted to be a dad. At one point, I had a couple of obstacles in the way. The first one was I was just super unhealthy. I was about 240 pounds, just not taking care of myself. And I also have a lot of history of heart disease in my family, my dad died when he was in his early 60s. His dad died when he was 51. So I kind of wanted to try to get that going in the right direction. So for the next year and a half, I would say, I kind of went back and forth between dieting and eating at maintenance, got down to about 180 pounds, but truthfully did it in all the wrong ways, right? I dieted too hard. I was only doing cardio. But about a year and a half ago, I just started lifting weights actually when I first started listening to you all. For about nine months of that, I kind of was on the newbie gain train as it were. Gained about 10 pounds over the course of those nine months. And then a plateaued like I thought it would. And then at that point, especially after that again, listening to you all talk about what you do, I realized at one point, I was gonna have to start eating more, right? And but as someone who is like an ex-OB's person, I guess you could say it scared the shit out of me. I know you guys have talked with other people that have the same issues. So what I decided to do was, so when I first started lifting, I was doing the four days a week. And what I thought I would do is kind of like a prep for my first bulk is I thought about, okay, let me kind of lock in everything else, right? I'm gonna make sure my sleep is good. I'm gonna make sure my diet is good. I switched from lifting from three days a week to, or from four days a week to three days a week, kind of on the advice of you guys, kind of I shifted to just doing compound movements, right? I tried to lock in everything. I actually backed off with the weight a little bit. And it just worked on my movements, my mobility, stuff like that. Anyway, so, and then once I did that for a couple of months then I jumped into a bulk and it was very minimal, it was like maybe 200 calories, 300 calories over what my mainness was. And I noticed that my body absolutely exploded. I had such, like I was feeling better. My lifts went not through the roof, but relatively through the roof from what I was experiencing. And I guess my question really was down to, do you all, if this is something that you're ever kind of like run into, is there any science behind the idea of kind of prepping your body about going into a bulk where if you kind of eat at mainness, but you kind of lock in everything else and you kind of honestly, I feel like my body was like so pissed off at me for so long saying like, just give us like a little bit more food, little bit more energy and we'll put it to good use because even, and I did this bulk for about 12 weeks and my body fat went down a percentage, but my weight increased about seven pounds. And I thought about you Adam and you talked a lot about your body recon where your weight kind of stayed right around the same point but your body really changed. And although I only did this for 12 weeks, I was just curious, is this something like you've run into with other clients? Is this something that maybe I can do more of going forward? So I was just curious with your thoughts on that. Yes and yes. You know what happened to you Ryan, is you started lifting weights, you got to a certain point, your metabolism got faster. So you needed more calories. This is what we talk about when we talk about strength training being so effective for fat loss. You got a metabolism boost, what happened is your metabolism met your caloric intake. So you can no longer gain any muscle because you were burning what you were eating because you had extra muscle from that nine months of newbie gains. So what you did is you bumped your calories, two to 300, you fueled your, you fed your body the extra that it needed. And it still was a little lower than what you needed because you still went down a percent body fat. So yes, this is exactly what you can expect. If you do this consistently over time, as you build, you'll get a faster metabolism and you'll require more calories to maintain your physique, which is a great place to be, especially if you've dealt with being overweight in the past because you're going to eat more, but be leaner than you did when you were heavier, when you were 240 pounds. In a perfect world, you continue down this path of kind of doing the same thing as far as adding a couple hundred calories every time you hit these little plateaus. And you look back in a year and you're eating a thousand more calories than what you were a year ago and you're in better shape. You're leaner, stronger and you're eating a thousand more calories. That's exactly what will happen if you keep going this direction. And it's a good place to be. And it's actually more common than you would think, especially for somebody who has put on a lot of weight, this is what they tend to do is that they are afraid to add too many calories. So they always lean on the other side, right? It's the opposite of other people, right? It's like, you guys know, like, oh God, I've been there before. I don't want to go back. And so if I'm going to increase calories, I'm going to do a little bit. And they just want to do a little, they're too worried about slapping on four or 500 calories, but your body's been screaming at you to give it to you. Give it to me. I need those calories. I'm trying to build, you're doing all the right things as far as your training. And so it's actually a really good place, dude. You're doing really well right now. I guess my- I got it. Oh, one thing, let me add, Ryan. The only caveat is don't get stuck in the same workout routine because that'll also get you to plateau. So make sure that you train smart, don't over train, be very intelligent about it, but phase your workouts, low reps for a few weeks, higher reps for other weeks, change up some of the other exercises, you know, more volume, less volume. Ideally, if you want programming, right? You can go from the maps programs, you go from one program to another program to another program. And that's kind of how we design them. Are you following a maps program, by the way? So I'm not. I've definitely been thinking about it and obviously you all would know best, but I feel like symmetry might be a good call for me, especially since I moved to doing three days a week and I've been doing just the compounds. Sure. I have been messing around style a little bit with what I've been doing when I first started doing the three days a week, I did a five by five and with one minute rest in between, just as something to kind of shake it up. Lately I've been doing three sets, but I allow myself three minutes in between sets, but even when I'm doing that, I've noticed a couple of spots where, especially if I'm doing like a dumbbell, like overhead press, I've noticed that like my right tricep is like a little weaker, even back stuff when I do, I've noticed when I just started, I literally just noticed that I could start doing legit pull-ups lately, which is rad, but I also realized that when I'm lifting myself up, my left side is like a little stronger and I have to kind of like edge it to kind of get them even. So I thought symmetry might be a good call for me, but I'd be interested to hear your call. Yeah, you're right, you're on track. That's perfect. It's a perfect program for you right now. We'll send it over to you and stop thinking about it and just do it. I mean, that's, I think, it does sound like, just so the audience knows, you were doing some good things though. I mean, as far as the way you were phasing things out, changing up your rest periods and like- Obviously. And that's, it's why you're seeing the results you are. So, but it's nice to have something laid out for you. I think you'll enjoy, hopefully having a couple of professionals- Keep that stimulus going, yeah. And symmetry is a great decision. I think it's great. Symmetry and the love of anabolic and then performance in that direction, that's great. I do have one more quick question for the three of you, if you have a second. Yeah. So again, as being someone who like wants to be a dad and kind of got into this later, later in life, I'm curious of how the three of you see your training, like if you were to able to look in the future and say, okay, 10 years from now with my training, what am I, what am I still doing? What are you all still doing? And what could you see completely changing 10 years from now? Cause I would assume from what I know, you all will be in your 50s at that point. So I'm curious if like what you all would change cause I know that's something I'll eventually bump into. Yeah. God. Sal's a bad person to answer this. He's still in the phase of being addicted to training. Justin and I are probably more appropriate. I would probably look a lot like I am now. Actually, I hope that my actually volume increases a little bit. I'm pretty low volume right now. What's beautiful about where you're at and if you actually think about fast forwarding 10 years from now, if you do a good job. He's gonna do a lot of power walking. Stupid. If you do a good job of being consistent for the next 10 years of lifting and building muscle, you're gonna love what you notice. Like it's- Easy to keep. It is a lot of easy to keep. I'm getting away with a day or two of training. Sometimes those workouts are only 20 minutes long. You can almost tell he works out. That was pretty tough dude. So a lot of my training right now is, I prioritize some of the big lifts because I know I'm doing so little right now. So I don't lose a lot. Now I recognize that I looked better four or five years ago, but my volume was incredibly higher. I still do mobility stuff, although I don't have to do as much of it because I put so much good work in in the last couple of years. So volume of training, just a lot lower. I think selfishly we created Maps 15 based on the fact of our lifestyle and how that shifted and how we've really been able to schedule that around. Like it conveniently having a home gym too and all that kind of stuff has changed and really kind of like flipped the dynamic for me for how I used to train in commercial gyms. But I'm always considering those quote unquote functional lifts. And so I will do the main compound lifts to just keep that baseline strength there. But I'm trying to address some of those things just to keep me mentally stimulated when I work out, keep it fun. But also I didn't really tell them but like my new focus is really to kind of incorporate a little bit more cardio back in the mix. God forbid. Undercover. Yeah. I didn't tell them. Why is it a secret? Because he's like ashamed. Yeah. They seriously hanging out these guys like I'm eating. We found out you were on a treadmill last week. Anyways, so yeah, that's my plan. What's that sound outside? Hey Ryan, I'll tell you something that I actually haven't shared this on show. It's been in my notes to bring it up to talk about that I think is one of the biggest epiphanies I've had in my life in the last like five to 10 years of lifting. I have gotten much better. And hopefully you see this in your journey of having an even healthier relationship with my nutrition and volume of exercise. Like in the past, even being as a fitness professional, notoriously what I would do is I would be all in and I'd be dieting and training hard and like very consistent. And then when I'm off, I'm like, ah, fuck it, whatever. I'm having ice cream, I'm doing whatever. Don't worry, I know how to whip it back into shape. And I had this really back and forth relationship with diet and exercise where I have a much better and healthier approach, which is I recognize when my volume of training is low and I tighten up and I discipline myself with my food choices when those times in my life are. And then when I'm really staying trained and conditioned, I allow those things that I enjoy in my diet more. And what I've noticed is I don't have these dramatic swings and I never really fall way out of shape and maybe I'm not as shredded as I was when I was competing, but I tend to keep this really healthy kind of body fat percentage, strength ratio, by just not going extreme. And I think that's, I think a lot of people can relate to that, that they're on or they're off. And I've gotten better about never being completely off. And I'm also not all the way on all the time either. I have a lot better balance. And I think that that has really changed and it's allowed me not to have to go in these, oh, I gotta get a hardcore cut now because I let all this body fat come on. It's cause I never really get way out of shape anymore. Here's the beauty, right now you're figuring out or learning the metabolism boosting, incredible metabolism boosting effects of strength training. Here's what you're gonna learn 10 years from now is that it's the most, it produces the most permanent results. Now there's no permanent results with exercise, but what Adam's talking about is very true. Like you do this consistently for 10 years, it doesn't take much to keep it. It's pretty remarkable, it's actually pretty awesome. I don't know what the form of exercise offers that, so. But I think you're gonna love map symmetry. I think that's the perfect program for you. That's great to hear because as someone, I will say over the last year and a half I've been really consistent, which is great. But I know it's not always gonna be like that, especially if I start a family, like those sorts of things. So the idea of being able to find that balance is really, really great. Do you have a good woman or are you single? Or you wanna be a dad, but do you have the right woman right now? Yeah, I am single at the moment. I thought I landed someone in the fall, but it didn't quite work. I actually had a really funny, you guys always talk about people carrying weight at different places on their body. And one time, not to get too personal on you guys, but me and this woman were in bed and she said, all of a sudden she was like, God damn, and I said, what? And she was like, your legs, if I didn't know, like she's like, I don't think you're like super lean or anything, but if I just saw you from the waist down, I would think you were like 6% body fat. I was like, oh, thank you. But unfortunately I carry it in other places that make it not quite as much. So it's another reason why symmetry might be good for me. No, Ryan, I'm working on the dating thing for sure. You'll enjoy symmetry. And then one to look at too is I think that for later, I think having, or during those times when you're not asking, I think Maps 15 would be a valuable program to have in your library. That's the program for parents, 100%. I had a PR doing that program, by the way, so it works. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you guys. I just wanted to say one last thing is just that as an aspiring dad, some of the conversations you guys have about being parents and constantly learning, I think that's such a huge thing when it comes to being a parent. A lot of people think about that sort of thing, how you can learn, how you can evolve as a parent and as a partner. It's just pretty amazing. So I really appreciate you guys. Ryan, do you have a social media handle you want to play real quick? And since girls will be watching this, maybe we'll get you some dates. Yeah, I mean, I could throw it out there. It's pretty simple. What's your Instagram? Let's get you some VR. I can't believe I'm doing it. So on Instagram, it's Brian, R-Y-A-N-M, as in Michael, and then my last name, Pranger, P-R-E-N-G-E-R. So if you're out there, hit me up. I'm in Maryland, but I work for Moom, so I'm flexible and long distance things. Awesome. You hear that, ladies? He's flexible. I hope he's got lean legs and flexible. I appreciate you guys. All right, man. Take it easy, man. Have a good one. Yeah, I tell you what, what you said is so true. I mean, all joking aside, you look like somebody who works out, you know, four days a week, five days a week, but that's because of the foundation you build, and it's so true, you know, and people are looking for that, right? They're looking for exercise that sticks around, the results are still going on. Strength training does that. When you do it for a long period of time, you get this like kind of permanent muscle almost. It's not permanent, but it's pretty amazing. I'll never stop. I'll never stop doing it for sure, but it'll be modified based on what my body says. So I'm sure at some point, I'll probably have to use a sled primarily for everything lower body. Keep finding a new angle that keeps it interesting. That's my whole thing. That's my favorite part about getting older, that I feel like nobody really communicated to me when I was younger, and I get, you know what? If you would have told me that, that would have been motivating for me in the 20s and 30s to know like, hey, bro, you're gonna put a lot of hard work in right now, but it's gonna be easy as you get older and you're gonna look better than most of your peers. Do you remember how hard it was to be over 200 pounds? Oh dude, just pressing there was everything. Yeah, now it's like I could be 200 pounds, work out once a week and have 200 pounds of muscle. Our next caller is Amanda from Australia. Hi Amanda, how can we help you? Hey guys. Oh, I'm so excited to be here. I was so sure I wasn't going fangirl at you, but I kind of am, so thank you for having me on. I'm very grateful to be here and just keep up the good work. Thank you. All right. Thank you. So I'm just gonna jump straight into the question. I'm on the last phase of your Maths Anabolic program and I'm struggling with your good morning exercise. I don't really feel my hamstrings working at all when I'm doing it. And I'm like, I'm loading it up quite heavy and I've watched your video on YouTube of how to do it correctly. And I recorded my form and everything looks fine, but I feel nothing. And I am very flexible. Like I train and coach aerial tissue. So I have a lot of active flexibilities. I don't know if that's impeding or like is doing anything that is why or I'm doing it wrong. Yeah. So my wife did aerial tissues for a while. She traveled with Cirque. She was at, she worked for Cirque, and so she got, she was very flexible when I first met her and doing good mornings and stiff legged deadlifts, even hip-hinging properly, she would like, we'd have to like have her stand on a box because the weights would hit the floor and she wouldn't get a stretch. There's the range of motion. So it's just, that's part of it. Part of it could be your form and technique. But if you're hip-hinging, okay, if you're properly hip-hinging, if it's not at the lumbar spine, in other words, you're maintaining neutral spine and you're bending at the hips and your butt is kind of coming back and your knees are slightly bent but fixed, your hamstrings are working. They are working. So even though you might not feel them necessarily, they're working. Something you could try as a technique. First off, I wanna make sure your form is perfect. If this is gonna be, I'm gonna say this considering you have good form, okay? So if your form is good and you wanna feel your hamstrings, try this pre-exhaust superset. Try doing leg curls and then go right to good mornings and then see if you feel your hamstrings. Nine out of 10 times, you'll be able to feel the hamstrings and the good mornings if you pre-exhaust them with a leg curl. Amanda, where do you feel it when you do them? And especially since you're loading it, like when you get done with a wrap or a set, what do you, where do you feel it? Honestly, I feel it slightly in my glutes, but mostly it's like my back gets it, like my lower back starts getting exhausted from just holding the heavy weight. Do you notice a difference when you do, are you having the same experience like Sal was saying that Jessica had where even when she did like stiff-legged deadlifts, do you, have you done any stiff-legged deadlifts and do they feel the same way also? Yeah, Romanian deadlifts. I, when I do them, I do what Jessica does. Like I stand on a bench. So I can go even deeper and then I feel it, but if I just do regular ones, it's very hard for me to feel much. Yeah. So I mean, the key is when you're doing this, right? You can bend over and the lumbar spine can flex and extend. The hips can also cause flexion and extension. So your spine has to be perfectly rigid. So when you're doing the movement, you wanna lead with your chest, stick your butt out and then as you go down, let the hips kind of travel back a little bit. You're probably not gonna feel a stretch because you're so flexible and that's okay. You're still working the hamstrings, but try the pre-exhaust technique that I said. And you could do leg curls on a physio ball or leg curls on a machine, then go right to good mornings or right to Romanian deadlifts and you'll probably feel the hamstrings. Well, just in terms of your back, lower back getting fatigued, have you gone through and like braced with a, with a PVC pipe down your spine and tried to make sure that your lower back was touching the PVC pipe as you hip hinged at the same time? Only because that is a great tool to be able to kind of teach your body to maintain that, that bracing position as, especially if you're loading it and making sure that, you know, you're keeping that rigid back completely. No, I haven't tried that, neither the pre-exhaust one. I'll try both of them and see how that works. So just from a tech perspective. It's actually really what you're experiencing is actually common with somebody who has this great of a range of motion in their hamstrings. It's like, when you're teaching somebody an exercise to feel it in the muscle, we're gonna feel it at the end range is the most, especially when you're first learning how to activate and work that. So because you have such a great range of motion in the hamstrings and you're not taking it to the end range, it's really hard to make that mental. Yeah, cause there's no peak contraction. At the top, it's not like your hamstrings are fully contracted. That's right. The main, the range of motion, the part of the range of motion that someone would feel in a good morning is the stretch. And because you're so flexible, you're just going, it's all mid for you. There's no stretch, there's no squeeze either at the top, but it's working. Now here's the other thing I wanna say to someone, to someone like you, which is rare, someone as flexible as you, I don't even think you should search for the stretch because it's so deep that unless you go really, really light and your form is like pristine, perfect, I wouldn't load it very heavy and do that because the odds that you're gonna have perfect technique with that kind of range of motion is quite low. So I would go, if you're gonna push for the stretch, I would go super light. Otherwise, let the weights hit the floor, so don't stand on a bench, get perfect technique and do a pre-exhaust. Leg curls on a physio ball, go straight to the good mornings, go lighter with the good mornings because you pre-exhausted and then you'll probably feel the hamstrings. Okay, and even though like the flexibility makes it so I don't get that range of motion, I still get, I guess the same benefit as somebody. Yeah, the hamstrings are still working. They're still functioning in that hip hinge. And you're still taking them through a pretty big range of motion too. So it's not like you're neglecting, like it's different if you were neglecting a range of motion and it's like this shortened little range of motion, but you're still taking the muscle through a great range of motion. It's just that you happen to be really, really flexible there. I mean, if your form is good and you're getting stronger in the good mornings, I wouldn't worry too much about this. But the feel of it. Yeah, and I love the advice of doing like lying leg curls before, so you can feel it. You'll feel it. But that's the reason why, when you're doing leg curls, there's tension on the hamstring the entire time. Regardless of if you're at the end range or not. And you get the squeeze there. And so that's why you feel that. The reason why you don't very much is because on a good morning, at the very top, if you're not really contracting that much, there's no resistance because of gravity, because you're up. And then when you go all the way down, you're not even close to your end range, so it's not making it feel that stretch feeling. So that's why. That's why you're feeling the way it is. It's not uncommon for somebody who has flexibility like you. And it doesn't necessarily mean something is necessarily wrong, though, either. Yeah, the pre-exhaust is, I think, gonna be key for you to feel. But I mean, when you do a pancake stretch or whatever, you flatten yourself out, right? You're totally, you could bend all the way out. You're not gonna feel the stretch in any kind of a hip hinge movement, unless you super modify it, which I don't... Creating that muscle tension is everything. Yeah, so pre-exhaust. Do the pre-exhaust. If you wanna feel your hamstrings, go leg curls and then straight to good mornings or straight to Romanian. So it's a superset, right? So it's like you do 10 leg curls. And with the leg curls, squeeze the contraction. Focus on getting your heels to your butt. Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. Do 10 reps there, then go to the hip hinge movement and you'll feel them. Okay, great, thank you. You got it. I'll take and try that. You got it, thanks for calling in. Yeah, you guys, I've shown you, because when I first started dating Jessica, I would send you guys, you can see the flexibility and the strength. The splits are just crazy. Yeah, I mean, because you have to be flexible but also strong to support yourself. But good mornings, remain deadlift. Like unless you can stretch the hamstrings, you're just gonna be, it's gonna be hard to feel how to do it. Anybody that has like kind of like hyper flexibility, it's a difficult client to train. A lot of times it's a control thing, like to be able to create that muscular tension, like took a lot of time to develop. But your guys' points about her already being in that only feeling in the end range, her end range is so far that to be able to feel that is very challenging. Searching for it wouldn't necessarily be a good idea. Well, and in a good morning, you get to understand that when she stands all the way up, there's nothing. There's no, there's no, even though that's the fully contracted position from that, there's, gravity's not resisting it anymore. So she doesn't have to be squeezing very much. And then when she goes all the way down, that's the other point, but she's so, she has such a great range of motion that she's not at the end stretch. And it's not even a fully contracted, right? Because your leg is still straight, right? Fully contracted will be a curled leg at the top. It's the glutes, but there's no resistance up there. You're not gonna feel anything. Our next caller is Nicole from California. Hi Nicole, how can we help you? Hi guys, thanks so much for having me on. You got it, yeah. I, I'll get right to my question. I don't wanna waste your time. So I've been listening to you guys for about eight months after I read Sal's book first. I loved what I read about such a difference than my mindset about like cardio is the only way to lose weight and weight training just seems so amazing to me. My husband was the one who actually encouraged me to do it. And I started my research and founder book first. So the podcast itself I love just for all the other content you put out, it's really entertaining. And anyway, so my question is I started weight training about eight months ago. I had a program that I bought years ago and I just did it in my own, well I have my own little studio here with dumbbells. I'm a stay at home mom. I have my youngest is two years old. So I didn't have access to a gym and I listened to you guys the whole time and it was going pretty well. I tended to hurt my neck often with that program. And I also hurt my Achilles on one, on my right leg. But it was all right. I felt like I was getting stronger. At the same time I was still doing my spin bike that I have and a cardio kick class. Both of them I was doing like two times a week as well as walking. And my goal was to basically after the baby like tone up. I know that's not really a term you use but to tighten up my core and to lose like eight pounds. And in the first month, I think I gained a couple pounds which I felt like that's what you guys always talk about is kind of normal. And then after five or so months of doing that my husband kind of talked to me into using he's got a rack and a bench and stuff that you brought from work and he put it in our garage and I bought anabolic. So I'm on week 10 of anabolic and I really like it. I mean, actually my neck hasn't gotten hurt since. I feel like I'm definitely lifting more and getting stronger. But in the beginning eight months ago I took my measurements basically from the waist down and that hasn't changed at all. And I was hoping to lose a like a dress size but my arms and back seem to be getting bigger because all my t-shirts in the last couple of weeks are tight. Mid bicep and as a woman, that's kind of the opposite goal what I wanted. I wanted to feel like my clothes were loose and comfortable on me. And I'm just feeling kind of bulky in the upper body. So I wanted to know if you adjust the programming and not do as much of the upper body movements. That's kind of what my husband suggested but I wanted to ask you guys what you suggest. Yeah, no, it's not a programming issue. Actually building muscle is what's speeding up your metabolism and give you the fat burning machinery that you want for sustainable fat loss but that's gonna be a nutrition situation. So are you tracking your calories? Do you know how many calories you're consuming? Grams of proteins, fats, carbs, anything like that? I do. So I have a bit of a like restriction and eating disorder past. So I'm able to use an app and track and see about what I eat. And I know I'm around 2000 calories. Probably my maintenance. And I love protein. So I can eat like 130 grams of protein, no problem. I tended to restrict carbohydrates for quite a few years. So that's usually on the lower end like 80 to 100 grams of carbohydrates is the highest I can usually get to. And what was your other question? I mean, you know- You answered it. Yeah, you answered it. So I have more questions. I thought I heard you say that you were doing the spend stuff and then also like a hit cardio thing. Are you still doing those four days of cardio week in addition to the anabolic? I stopped going to the cardio hit class and I stopped my bike. I just do like a two mile walk every day. Oh, okay, okay. I mean, and that might be part of why we're seeing, how long have you been not doing those things right now? I stopped doing the bike and the cardio hit probably in the last six weeks. Your body weight hasn't changed, but you feel a little bit tighter in the upper body. Yeah, I think I started like, do you mind if I say how much I weigh or does it matter? No, that's fine. That's up to you. I think I started back in June, I was like 142 pounds and I'm like 145, 144. Yeah, you're kicking ass. Yeah, you're doing actually really good. Yeah, you probably got leaner and built some muscle. Consider when you eliminated all that cardio you were doing. That's a tremendous amount of calories that you were burning in the week. When we look at it as a whole, when you do four days like that, and then you add it all up and then you add it over a month. So the fact that you've been able to still eat the same amount of calories and really the weight you have is probably negligible. You're talking probably a little bit of water weight for the most part. Maybe some muscle because it's actually got stronger. Yeah, you're actually probably doing really good. This is a matter of like kind of staying the course. A couple of things, I know you said protein's good, which is one of the common ones where my female clients would miss. How's your strength gains from lifting? Are you, and how are you pushing yourself weight-wise? One of the challenges I had with clients, I mean, even like Katrina when we first met, that would like tend to gravitate towards, you know, cardio type training or circuit or HIIT type stuff, like getting her to like think about like, let's get that squat up as heavy as you can. The loading process has always been difficult. Right, how are you with loading the bar? Are you pushing the weight? What's it, tell me how that looks right now for you. Yeah, so the bar's pretty new to me. Like I said, I started, I think, early December and in November. So I'm squatting. I wanna say like I've probably gained at least 20 pounds on my squat. When I was doing the lower rep range, I forget what phase that is like two or one. One, one. Yeah, I love that. And I'm probably like a 30 pound difference from that lower rep range and the higher rep range I'm currently in. I think. Nicole, you're on week 10. You're starting week 10. You're going in the right direction. You're totally, so fat loss or weight loss from strength training is more of a snowball effect. So it starts off slow. And usually what happens is you see the weight not change much, you see strength go up. You notice changes in your body, but the scale doesn't change much. But then as the metabolism starts to speed up, which takes a second, then the fat loss starts to happen. You're actually moving in the right direction. Yeah, you are doing good. Yeah, you're totally moving in the right direction. I wouldn't even have you change much right now and just kind of stay the course. And did I hear that correctly? You're, are you lifting more weight in this current phase than you were in phase one? No. Oh, okay. My squat at like the eight to 12 rep is around only, it's not a lot, something impressive. It's like 80 pounds, but I was 110 pounds with the one to four rep range. Yeah, you're doing great. Yeah, and I also think that you have room when you get back to the going back around. If you go back in through anabolic or you go to any of our other programs because phase one, we typically are strength those, not all of them, but most of them are that way. The conversation you and I be having if we are client, I'd be really trying to motivate you to stretch yourself on the weight, really pushing the weight. I think that you've got probably more strength capacity in there. And granted, you're doing things the right way. So I want you to know that like obviously loading the bar super heavy when you're just learning it, that's not a good idea, but that's where I want to get you. I'm going to be pushing you in that direction. Where you got more in there, we're going to get stronger. Especially for that leg development, you know, those big compound lifts, those squats and dead lifts and really kind of pressing yourself in that direction will provide that development you're looking for. Yeah, and so if you were my client, what I would do is I would have you stay the course. I would have you slowly reverse diet. So I'd have you slowly increase your calories, get you to the point where you're eating like 2,400, 2,500 calories where you're not really gaining any weight, but you're stronger. And then from there, I would do a cut. And then that's where you would see the big fat loss. And what you're doing is you're setting yourself up for sustainable lean, you know, sculpted physique versus what you might have experienced in the past where it was really hard to keep it off. And it was kind of like, oh my God, if I go off my routine at all, it comes right back on my body. What you're going through right now is the metabolism boosting process. And it can take months. It could take months to do so, especially if you're only a couple of years postpartum. You have a two-year-old? I have a two-year-old, yeah. Yeah, you're totally, you're going in the right direction. You're doing good, Nicole. You need to know that. You're doing good right now. You really are. Don't get impatient because that's where people screw up because what will happen a lot of times, especially with women is, you know, you're like, you're 10 weeks into it, they start to get impatient. Then they cut their calories like crazy. They throw a bunch of cardio at themselves. And then they end up where they were before. And by the way, like very easily, I could tell you, cut your calories, three to 500 calories, add a hour of cardio every single day. And I would give you the initial thing that you want. Like you would see your upper body shrink down a little bit. So be aware of that, right? Like that's right there if you wanted to go there, but that's not setting yourself up for long-term success. Trusting the process is going to, and it's a slower process like Sal said, it's a snowball effect. But I want you to know you're doing a good job. You really are. You're doing a good job, and you're heading the right path. And as you start to go around and go through more of these maps programs, just keep working on getting stronger. Just getting stronger, increasing those calories. And you're going to get to a point where you are eating 2,400, 2,500 calories and not gaining weight. And then when we bring you down to your 2,000 calorie maintenance. Now you're lean and it's easy to maintain. It reveals itself. Yeah, and as far as the routine is concerned, you could do all lower body for the trigger sessions. Are you doing trigger sessions on the days in between? So the trigger session days, I have not been able to squeeze in with the baby, but I really want to start doing that. So that's the only thing I haven't been doing. Oh, that'll make a huge difference. Nicole, that makes a huge difference. Okay, so here's what? Squats, those body weights, squats, that type of thing. Yeah, yeah. So here's what I want you to do. On the days in between, I want you to twice a day, just try twice a day, five to eight minutes of lower body exercises. And the idea isn't to get a crazy workout. The idea is just to go through full range of motion and kind of feel the muscles work a little bit. And what that's going to do, it's like adding a turbocharger to the hard workouts that you do three days a week. Okay, a question to that. I have like a larger lower body. That's kind of what I would like to shrink. So that's not going to increase my size doing that type of thing. No, but you said you wanted to avoid upper body stuff. So really you can target whatever you want. You could do core exercise, you could do upper body, but just do like, you know, five to eight minutes, maybe 10 minutes of some exercise, make it moderate intensity at most. You just want to kind of feel the muscles a little bit. That's it. Think recovery, don't think workout. Do two a day, one in the morning, one at night, and then watch what happens. It's literally like adding a turbo to what you're doing. Nicole, if you tell me, you told me about where your weight is, you just told me that you have a very, you're thicker in the lower half. I've got you squatting 185 in the next six months or less. That's what I got. If I'm training you, I've got you squatting 185 for five reps. Like you, I'm pushing, you're going to have that in you. That's the thing to focus on. Get strong. Don't be, and the beauty of having a thick lower body is there's a lot of muscle in there, which, and more muscle speeds the metabolism up. So there's advantages of having a stronger, thicker, lower body to the overall fat loss. So. And, you know, when you get, as when you get to the process of cutting down, it looks really good. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm hoping for. All right. You're doing, hey, let's get you in the forum too, so we can stay in touch with you. Yeah, for sure. So I'm going to have Doug send you access to the private forum and then just, you know, keep us posted on your journey. Feel free to share videos of your squatting or exercise like that so we can make any critiques on your forum or let you know how you're doing great. I can a lot of times tell by the way somebody is moving a weight on how much they are pushing themselves weight-wise and be able to give you advice that way too. So get in there and make sure you tag us and share your journey. Okay, that sounds great. Thanks guys. So I'll probably just run anabolic again when I'm done and I'll make sure to include the trigger sessions and push myself a bit more. Yes. Thank you guys so much. You got it Nicole. Thank you. That was just a, hey, am I on the right path? Yeah, basically. Bro, she forgot to mention that she had well-developed legs. I smelt it, bro. I swear to God, she looked strong to me. Like I see her and I'm like, that chick is squatting. She's just uncomfortable. She has muscle now. She's squatting 80 pounds. I'm like, she can. When she gets to the part, when she reversed diets and just stays the course, metabolism is already boosting. Already, she stopped doing all that cardio and she hasn't really gained any weight. When she gets to the point where she starts to cut, when she's comfortable cutting, she's gonna be very happy with the way she looks and feels. Very happy. Hey, check this out. If you wanna find out if your hormones are optimized, if you're healthy, if they're within range, go to mphormones.com, fill out intake form, and talk to a professional. Today, we're gonna teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the weak part. Yeah, it was for me, it was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.