 Good evening friends and there couldn't be a pleasant Friday evening wherein we could take a session as they say as to whether the leaders are born or created. It's special reference to be as to how one can go about in respect of the leadership under the combat situations in the military. And sometimes once you are a host, it's very difficult to introduce a person that who's already introduced to the society at large and back to us on a social media. Be that as it may like beyond law CLC has been doing so many webinars, but to have someone who is having so much followers. As I say social media has its own imprints. But basically, that is only I will say a small step in the giant life of different different general cages. Hello. As we call us tiny hello in common parlance. And in today's, those who have been connected with beyond law CLC, they would see that normally we take the entire session where the person who is the guest gives the all insights and then we take the question. But today it's slightly a different for you as they say that I'm reminded of Mr. Chef Cara where he said that successful people don't do different things. They do it differently. So we get when we had contacted tiny alone then at that point of time he said that, let's have a different format by go with the routine. Let's try. And you also try with that. And then I said, sir, once we are only thinking of creating a different thing, then why not think of the topic of creation itself, because creativity, they say, necessity is the mother of invention like COVID taught us with the these webinars in the same way we thought that creativity at its distinct. General Dhillon will give us a brief insight as to whether. Leaders are born or created. Because in Hindi, they say that. Leaders. Create situations create. Every spot situation as you rise over. Suddenly. Leader created that is the point of glory in that. We would ask during that session we will also be taking live questions from the YouTube as well as on the chat, but we are making things clear that we will not take any politically sensitive question, even if you post it. And we are not allowing anyone to be unmuted because what we said that it has to be different. And what this session will be. Dhillon, sir, he says that Punjab has three things. Punjab, Punjabi and Punjabi. So in the middle of Punjab, Hindi. They say it but they say Punjabi. You may I can may not say that general Dhillon that you can take the fish out of the water and it will be in trouble times. But at the same time, when he will take the questions, we know that his. Ascent is. Punjabi will come in that. And they say Punjabi to share. And that's where the sing and then listen to all these things. And before I ask general Dhillon to share his insights. The first question that comes to mind is that body and your temperaments attitude and all the other things. Wherever you are, you look tiny. So why do people call you tiny Dhillon? This question comes to mind again and again. And sir has also written a book about it. We will talk about it in the whole session. But sir, the first question before we take forward. Before we start, you tell us that you are tiny Dhillon. Thank you Vikas and thank you all the viewers from India and I can see some from 24 countries also. To start with your question, why tiny Dhillon? Yes, Dhillon is also a little big. Actually speaking, when I joined my unit. That is the fourth battalion, the Rajputana rifles way back in 1983. So this Indian Army unit had a particular tradition in house tradition that every officer was given a nickname. And after that this officer was known by that name throughout the service. And I dare say in the Indian Army and outside people know me more as tiny Dhillon than KJS Dhillon and probably one or two persons will know my full name that is Kamal Jit Singh Dhillon. Even at home also or all close friends also call me by this name only. So this unit used to give a name which was opposite to your look or your personality. Since I was a 63. So I was given this nickname of tiny and this name carries on with you. Even during exercises or combat or operational situations, your call sign from the radio site or the wireless as the public would know it is also tiny. So this is a small story about why a name tiny and it has stuck well. And I think this will continue till the last. Sir, as I said before, it is a 15 minute introduction in your own style and the rest will continue. Okay. Good evening everyone. First of all, I would like to say I generally don't prepare speeches or scripts and I don't talk from the script I talk from the heart. And I would like this particular session, this is my first session on online platform. I would expect it to be more interactive, let the viewers ask questions. I'll be more comfortable in answering them. And there are no limits of boundaries to the questions you can ask other than no political or religious questions. Beyond that, anything and everything on earth can be asked and I'll try and do my best. Now as regards the topic which we can share with me, are the leaders born or can they be created or trained? I would ask you a simple question before I start. I'm sure all of you would have studied lots of leadership theories in your school or college or management schools or the army or the defense personnel in their training academies or for those aspirants before going for the SSBs. And if you're 35, 40 plus, I dare ask you how many of you remember those theories? So the point I'm making is leaders are not born out of books or chapters or you can say media interactions or you can say online classes or leaders are neither created. It is either you have it in you or you don't have it in you. Leaders emerge. And I'll give you a small example of those who have attended the services selection board of the SSB. The 15, 20-year-old boys and girls, they come from all over the countryside. They come together at Bhopal, Allahabad, Bangalore or wherever. And then in the GTO task, someone suddenly emerges as a leader. A very quiet chap who can't even converse properly in a particular language who feels very, very, you know, within himself. But when it comes to a situation where there are no answers being found by anyone, this young man or a young girl emerges and tells you how to do it. I've given you a very simple situation. Whereas in combat situations under life fire, when your life is under threat and your partner's life is under threat, that is your buddy or your peer or a superior or a junior, the leaders emerge there. I don't have much idea about the corporate world, but I can tell you with what a little experience I have. There also the leaders emerge. A very, very young executive would suddenly showcase his capabilities and abilities to lead a team. And a good CEO will pick him up, make him the team leader, and the team will perform out of proportion. This by may not have ever got a chance to even study the leadership theories. So point I'm making is difficult situations bring up difficult people who can handle difficult situations. And once a leader emerges and once the success happens, then the morale goes up. The trust of the team comes in. So in a leadership, few things are very important. First is the trust of your team. I'll give you a small example. If you are a team leader, maybe in a corporate world or wherever, or even in the sense this platform is for the lawyers. You are a senior lawyer, supposed to be a leader, and you have a team of young lawyers who is working under you. We are all very clear you have been that young lawyer one day. You know how much work this leader is, or this team leader is, or this senior lawyer is. What he says, what he practices, what he preaches. Similarly in the defense forces, each and every young knows how good or not so good or bad my commander is. I'm making a distinction between commander and leader. Commanders are posted by the army headquarter. You are the battalion commander, you are the brigade commander, you are the company commander. Leaders emerge. Every commander is not a leader. And every leader need not be commander of that particular team under combat situation. A middle rango junior chap can emerge and lead that team out of that dangerous situation. A question had come on that Twitter yesterday someone posted it. Sir, how is it that in all the wars of the country insurgency operations which India has been going through in the last few years, a few decades. The junior leaders always perform well. How come the senior leadership at times is found wanting. Now my answer to that question is a junior leader when he is in a combat situation, he is in a combat situation. He emerges as a leader from that situation. Whereas when you become a senior officer, again I'm making a distinction, senior officer, you may or may not have had the combat experience in your younger days. If a senior officer has not had a combat experience when he becomes a commander, then when a situation emerges he flaps because he has not been through it himself. So that's a subtle difference. Everyone who has gone through the combat situation cannot rise to the senior ranks. And there are different parameters for the people who become senior officers who have not gone through the combat. I'll give you one example. I was a Brigadier in 15 Corps senior leader, I was in the headquarters and there was a general officer who was commanding a formation. I had about 5, 6, 10 years behind me and this general officer was the first timer in the Kashmir Valley. And encounters started off in the jungles of Afruda and Rafiaabad. As a staff officer, I placed two helicopters. I did the thing in the base hospital, expecting some casualties. I also did the thing with the people who are monitoring the terrorist communication to give us the live feed as to what the terrorists are not talking. Because under fire they will also talk without secrecy. So I did all these things for this general officer calling me up. He says you are being very defensive, you have placed the helicopter, you are expecting casualties. I said sir, I know these jungles. I worked in these jungles. I had encounters in these jungles. I am not wanting casualties but if the casualties happen, if the helicopter is close by, we will save those lives and we did. So that is where a senior officer with experience will behave or react differently to a situation. So good thing about Indian Defence Forces is you join as a second lieutenant or a lieutenant, then only you rise to the senior ranks. I talked about trust. Very important for the team to have trust in their leader. And trust is never won. Trust is never bought. Trust is earned. Earned by your actions, by your transparency, by your ethos, by your culture, by the way you operate. Again, I will give you a small example. I have spoken about this in my book. I was a second lieutenant in Sikkim at an altitude of about 16,000 feet and above. And I was travelling in a one-ton. I saw a John walking in front of me in about 15 to 20 feet of snow. And the track was cut out for the one-ton to move. I told the driver, let's stop and pick up this boy. And the driver told me, sir, he is Lansnak Ram Singh. He was enrolled in an accident where Surudham Mejia Sahib, Lakshmi Sahib died. And after that, he has never sat in a vehicle. He's got a little phobia of a vehicular movement or travelling in a vehicle. I said, nothing big. As an officer, it's my responsibility to ask him. We stopped the vehicle. I asked him, I said Ram Singh, after he said Ram Ram Sahib and Jamata Ji Sahib. I said, better, better. And he sat down in the vehicle, in the body of the vehicle and I asked the driver. I said, you are saying he doesn't sit in the vehicle, how come? He says, I don't know, first time. He said, I've been plying on this road for last six months or eight months. So when we got down, Ram Singh came forward, wished me again. And then I asked him, I said Ram Singh, I'm told you don't sit in a vehicle. But why today? You know what his answer was? One liner answer. He said, sir, as to abhi gharime bathe se. Now this puts tremendous amount of responsibility and on us and trust, which I cannot under any circumstances not live up to. So this is what the leadership is all about. And third most important point about leader is, and the word flapping is not done. A leader has to be always calm, clear and concise. If a leader is giving very, very longish orders, then he does not know what he's doing. He's not clear about what he's doing. He is to be crisp and the order will be understood the way it is conveyed. Everyone cannot pick up that 20 minutes of lecture and then obey. So be as crisp as to the point and be available. And another most important point about a leader state is a leader must always be flexible in his mind and in his actions. No military solution is perfect. There are always mid-cost corrections. It should never be that since I have said it, it's written in the rock now. Under the evolving circumstances under the emerging situation, the leader must be open to mid-cost corrections, suggestions, and execution by the youngsters. And morale is one thing which if a team, especially in the military forces, if the team has a good morale, the team will perform better. And I always believe for a good morale for a juan, the three things which are very important. One is he must have confidence in his weapon. That is, my weapon is the best and it will fire when it comes to. Because if he does not have the confidence in the weapon, that means his weapon may or may not fire. The other party's weapon will fire and he may lose his life. So confidence in the weapon and capability of the weapon is the first and foremost thing. Second is his body, the person on his right or on his left. He must have confidence in his body that my body will sit and fight with me. I am reminded of an English movie where these two body pairs, they used to tie their legs together so that the other person does not run away. And three queens movie, I'm forgetting the name. So confidence in a body that he will fight, he will not run away, he will not leave me alone. And if I get injured, he will evacuate me. This also creates high morale. And third and most important is the confidence in the leader. That leader will lead me, plan and lead and execute an operation with total professionalism where victory will be almost certain. So these four things, what do they point to? They indicate the leader's role is most important in a life. In a household, like see some ladies there. In a household, what is to be cooked for breakfast or lunch or dinner is decided by the lady of the house. She may or may not be cooking in the kitchen. She may be a working lady, but she makes sure she gives all the instructions and everything and that is what is the leadership quality. She is doing it unintentionally. We all are performing leadership roles in our daily lives. Like even when you're traveling with a wife or your husband, now you're going to a particular area, a particular place. Now which market to go where to shop, what is also a leadership decision. And this is the way a leader must always execute the task at hand in the most professional manner. I will leave it at that because I want to take more questions. And another thing is, which again, since I've written a book which is coming out in February pre-orders our own. The book, I'll just give you just a fit. The book starts with a child of three years of age. Who had the world lined up against him for whatever reasons? Who failed in his exams? Who tried again? Who failed again? Who tried again? Who passed with minimum percentages in some exams, maximum in some exams? Who went to NDA against the wishes of his family? He went through NDA, the IMA training, then he joins a wonderful unit. And there afterwards that unit adopts him as a very, very nice boy. They mentor him, they chisel him, they train him, they bring him up. This boy gets married to a young girl. The young girl who is not from a family of fogees. They have their share of field areas, peace areas, the separation. Has two beautiful children. Both of the time of the birth of the children, this officer is not there. All these are the hazards of the profession. Imagine in today's world your daughter is born, you don't even come to her for four days. You speak to your wife after 17 days, you come home after two months to see your child. So after all this, everyone says, oh, he's a left-in-journey, he's a court commander. You have to see the journey. So every young, aspirant boy or girl who wants to join the army or marry an army man or army woman, must understand these things. And let me tell you, they come with the price, but they come with a lot of pride. Yesterday I was going to a particular shop for something. And the moment this gentleman looks at me, he says, Abdel, and I say, yes, sir. And I can tell you, he gave me the type of discount which you can't even imagine. So this is the type of respect this uniform brings to you. And then of course, the book goes on to Kashmir, starting with 1988. The Kashmiri Pandit Saxodas, 19 January 1990. When the terrorism started, they did start on 19 January 1990 or before that. What happened in Pulwama? What happened in 370? How 370 was planned? How 370 was executed? What is the way forward? So all these are there in the book. You can ask me questions of that and whatever I can answer, I'll answer. So here I will stop. I have a request to be asked to now conduct the Q&A session. And again, ladies and gentlemen, please feel free to ask any question. The question is, maintain the dignity of the language. Avoid political and religious questions because as a soldier, those are not the domains I indulge in. The religion of my troops is my religion. That's again, there's a sub chapter in the book on that. So because all yours now. Thank you. When I talked about the book, we have only seen it on social media. If you have a cover of the book, show it once. The book is under publication. If you have a cover, you can do it. There is a soft copy which I put on the Twitter and also on Insta. But as of now, I don't have it where I can show it to you. The title of the book is just like thinking. When a child is born, what should be the name? So this is also in your mind that what should be the name and what should be the name. Because generally, when we name the child, we expect that thing to be there in that child, etc. So when this book is written, what are the thought processes for the title? And what will you teach people in the book? Okay, second part. First, as I told you earlier, this book will give you an insight of a student whose struggles because I see today's youngsters failing in one exam or not scoring a particular percentage in one particular class and they get very disappointed. They feel probably that's the end of the world. No, that's the beginning of the journey. So I've given in this exam and I have also like somebody might say, okay, he has not done all the noted things in life. I have done it. I've put it in the book. I have also carried a guardian, you know, a fake guardian to the school principal. I narrated this in the book. So I was just any other child who failed, who failed, who failed, who succeeded. And once he succeeded, the best, the only thing is be transparent, be honest to yourself, be honest to God. Sky is the limit. Now coming to the top title of the book. Kirtanigazi ayi, Kirtanigazi gayi. Was a statement which was made on the 19th of February 2019 in the press conference. When, after the plawama idea blast, I have given this whole episode in detail. The plawama, the plawama after that, how we went about it. And after the plawama incident within 100 hours, we eliminated the module which had conducted the plawama idea blast. The leader of that module was a terrorist called Kamran. He was a Pakistani national of Jesse Muhammad. His code word was Gazi. Now for the benefit of those who may not know the environment in terrorism and terrorist organizations, Gazi is a very preferred code word for any terrorist organization which are based in Pakistan. So this particular terrorist of Pakistan nationality was also called Gazi. And since I had served in Kashmir since 1998, captain, major, left-wing colonel, CO, brigade commander, all in the most difficult and challenging area, a lot of Gazi code word terrorists were eliminated in the past. So when this press conference happened and this code word was Gazi. So some press journalists asked me a question. Sir, is Gazi eliminated or not? So my answer to that was, how many Gazi are there? So this is where this line became a little famous. It became so famous that every post in Kashmir, the youngsters had put this logo on the post gate. And then social media picked it up. So this title, there is no question on this title between me and the publishers. The title was known. The cover of the book, again, there is a famous photograph of mine with a finger like this. And that also goes with the, so cover of the book and the title of the book. There's not a one second discussion on that. It was a unanimous decision to go with this title and go with this cover picture. We always discuss. And how do you feel that relevant, not only in army or for defense personnel? When we say how's the Josh, because that is also a line which actually stimulates the mind to a different level, not only defense services, but even otherwise. Yes, like I said in the introductory remarks, morale is the most important. Moral is a force multiplier in any military team or a task or a mission. Since all our jobs in the military are mission oriented tasks. We select people based on the mission we are carrying out on the expertise. We select our weapons systems based on the mission. We also select the people from infantry or engineers or signals or mechanized or armored or whatever. Also based on the composition of team is based on the mission and the task which is and we started with the obstacles which will come up in that mission. So how is the Josh? The Josh multiplies the strength of the team manifold. And this popular Hindi movie in which this dialogue was there has been picked up by most of the young officers and the Joseph and over. How is the Josh? Now here again, I would like to take you back to problem. After the problem incident where we lost 40 brave hearts of CRPF Pakistan, Pakistan's handles and the Pakistan's media management teams narratives. They started with the dialogue. How is the Josh? Referring to Jesse Muhammad which had carried out the terrorist attack of Kulwama. Now with this, the team security forces in Kashmir, we had to hit back earliest and get the Josh back. So when we eliminated this terrorist module of Jesse Muhammad of Pakistan within 100 hours. Then the Josh came back. How is the Josh? Otherwise for the first four days, Pakistani handles kept teasing and trolling. How is the Josh? So we hit back and we brought back. How is the Josh? And then the rest is history as the same. So this is like what he's saying. He's saying neverness to support. But how do you dip? He's restricting to the how armed forces are trained to that. I'll say the same thing in the rest of my life. If the nervousness in your life becomes clear, what are the mindsets that improve you? So what are your takes? How do you overcome the nervousness? You see, nervousness is a sub function of fear. Fear or fear. If anyone says he doesn't get afraid or he doesn't feel afraid, he's lying. That's a basic human factor. But in army, we are trained and because of the experience which I talked about in the initial stages, how to overcome and how soon you overcome that fear. I remember in Malipur, I was with a small team of 10 boys and we came under very heavy fire of automatic weapons at a very close range. And the dog walking in front of me, the post dog, the dog got a bullet, we dashed and took cover and regathered our thoughts. Now those two seconds, five seconds, 10 seconds will decide when you regather your composer and you start thinking rationally again. This stretch of time, how fast you overcome the fear and regain your composer would decide the life and death of yours and your team. Any commander who cannot come out of this fear for a particular duration will be a failed commander. So it depends on that commander's experience, his battle-hardiness as to how fast he can come out of that fear and take a rational decision and then start controlling the situation. Now same example of the same Malipur encounter. We could see the terrorist firing on us but we could not fire back because we had the AKS. Now we wanted a weapon which could fire overhead. There is a weapon in the army called 2-inch mortar or 51mm mortar. So that person who was carrying this 2-inch mortar was a little behind. So when I said, okay, 2-inch wale kwaage bejo, Naik Rishi Pal of 17 Ajit came running down. I gave this example earlier in one of the talks. He came running down, dashed in front of me and he had also overcome his fear in the shortest possible time. Under fire he ran and came to me and he said, sir, here is the weapon. And he also knew if I'll explain the target to him, I'll make noise and we will give away a position which will attract fire. He just told me, sir, we have a weapon. So I fired that weapon and we could overcome the resistance which was imposed by the terrorist. Given this operation, it's a four-day operation. Ultimately the chase lasted and we went into long distances in the jungles. I've narrated this in particular incident in a book in a very great detail to break out certain lessons for the youngsters. So fear or nervousness as you call is a basic human nature. It will happen, it should happen. If somebody says I'm a Rambo, it doesn't happen to me, he's lying. But the fact is how fast you overcome this fear, how fast you regain yourself, how fast you take control of the situation and how fast you execute your team's strength to overcome the opposition's weakness. So that is how we are trained about it because we are put through such mental stress and physical stress in different courses including the commando course that the body starts to react positively to the most difficult of situations. And then of course, as I said, the experience of combat over the decades teaches you or makes you from within a person better accustomed to overcoming fear. Sir, I will take that famous ad-line which says dharki aage jyoshay. So I think that whatever you have told that the pithans of chance would be that dharki aage jeethay. Yes. One question is from Rupinder, he says, are there some, I'm speaking with that, are there certain methods to influence persons or what you said that as I said, nothing succeeds like success or like you say, if you are successful, people will automatically get, your life becomes a magnet that people automatically gets attracted or there are certain ways, maybe not success, but still you can attract people towards yourself and influence people. Attraction is not that poor part, but how do you feel that one can influence someone for the betterment of course? Thank you Rupinder. If I understood the question correctly, it is you have to be successful to people to gravitate towards you for professional reasons or if you are otherwise then you can become successful by your hard work. If this is just a question, my answer is, if you are successful, if you are good, if you can produce the desired results, if you can give the desired service which is expected out of you, you are a commodity which will sell in the market. I'm talking in the management language because I also done a PhD in management. So if you are a sellable product, you've got to be good from within and once you are good from within, the customer will get attracted, the public will get attracted. Now coming to the military side of it, like I said earlier, the Jawan knows whether this commander or this officer is worth it or not and he will follow you to wherever you go. I'll take you back to your school days. In the games period, there used to be two teams and generally the teacher would say, okay, student X and student Y, you come this side and now please make two teams. You always gravitated towards the person who had a better chance of winning as a leader if you are to follow X or Y. Similarly, if you are a good product or a good commander or a good leader or a good CEO, then your demand will be there. You will be doing the job hopping as is done in the civil market because you are producing results. On the bottom line, the profit loss statement in the civil side, you are contributing to it. But in the army parlance or the defense forces, there is no profit or loss. There is life or death. If you are a good commander who can take sensible decisions, who can do good planning and execute with precision, you will save lives. Your profit loss statement is that any commander who can save lives in the combat situations is a good leader. People will follow him and that is how in the army headquarters, the MS branch, the military secretaries branch also gets the feedback and that is how these officers are posted back to those combat areas where they can gain from their experience and save lives when it comes to combat situations. Sir, could you explain about the girls joining NDA and then one... That is another question. Okay. The girl candidates in NDA, the first batch has just joined and I was part of this decision making along with General Rawat who was the CDS then. I was the Deputy Chief of Defense Intelligence Agency and the DG Defense Intelligence Agency under him. Although this charter was not mine but most of the time when the discussion took place I was present there being the Deputy Chief myself of particular branch. So I am aware of what I went into it and how much planning went into it and how much of checking the last nuts and bolts went into it including the accommodation in NDA and other things. So this is a scheme which is bound to succeed and this is a scheme which had to happen. There are not two ways about it. The girls in the army Air Force and Navy are doing a tremendous job. I had the honor of serving with some of the finest women officers this organization has. Again I'll give you an example with the personal experience. As a 15th Corps Commander, a Chinat Corps Commander, all my briefings, all my presentations, all my discussions, operational administration used to happen in a central place called Operations Room with everyone listening, whether it is his job or not. If he wants to listen, he can sit down and listen. He may be a logistics man. He can listen to the operational part. He may be an administrative legal man. He can listen to the logistics part. But only there is something called DB Matters. Imagine the DB is there in the talk now and all the lawyers would understand DB Matters are directed or vigilance matters where someone's character is involved or some allegation is against his military reputation or his personal character or few other things like that. Only those matters are used to discuss in my office in person and private. So there was a young girl, a captain, a woman officer. She would come with the files. She was from the Jack branch. Jack is a legal branch of Army. She would come with those files and she would explain the case to me with such clarity without an aorta of inhibitions that she is a woman and she is talking to a man about cases which involve little intricacies. But what a thought of professional this young officer was. Similarly, every young officer, the woman officer in the Army which I have come across is a thought of professional. I will again tell you one example. I was in North Kashmir at two in the night in jungles in the Gulmag Heights and generally I was a CEO that time. You hear the havaldas and nags who come to check the guard and all. So you are quite used to it because you are in a tent. You can hear what's happening outside. Certainly on one night I put two in the night I heard of women's voice. So I was literally intrigued as to how come there is a girlish or a lady voice. So I called for the sentry. I said who is there? Is this a left-in and sub member sub? The left-in sub madam. So I came out the engineer officer left in at two in the night. She was travelling in a one ton with the driver going to some place. The one ton had broken down. She left the driver with the one ton and she says since I am an officer I can go and speak to some officer. I'll be able to get the help earlier or faster. She walked down about two kilometres in that snow in the middle of the night in the jungles of Gulmag Heights and came to this post which was ours. And this is the type of confidence that officer had, the woman officer had. We gave her the recovery and the workshop mechanics and other things went and repaired it. But the point is she could have highly locked herself inside the one ton and told the driver to go and get help. But the driver would have been not able to hit the CEO's tent state. So this is how these women officers lead from the front. And I'm so glad that NDA has started the women candidate sentry for the girl candidate sentry. And it's going to be a great success. I can give it in writing even today. So this is, we had received a message. It said that you had once said that you had blocked anyone who tags you in a tweet with a hit message. What advice do you give to the youth to maintain social harmony in these times? Yes, I have tweeted it three or four times. I said anyone tagging me in a hit message or a message of animosity against each other. I will block that person. Because social media is a platform for exchange of ideas in a civilized manner. We can convey our point very, very forcefully, without resorting to bad words, abuses, and still be able to put our point forth. So I'm prepared to engage with anyone on a very sensitive issues also. Like I said, other than politics and religion, but in a civilized manner and a graceful discussion. You don't lose your poise. You don't lose your grace. You don't lose your dignity. I don't do that. And we can discuss anything which is on the table. So please use social media constructively, positively, and in a more meaningful manner. It's a wonderful experience. We never had it in our childhood. The young children of today have this wonderful thing available to you. Don't lose the importance and the relevance of it because you just want to say something bad to the other person. He can say 10 things bad back. Avoid that. Be civilized. Be human. Respect each other's individuality and discuss. Never argue. Discuss things. Arguments are not good. Discussions are better. They are stimulating. The next question is that we have seen sometimes the leader does a lot of micromanagement skills. And does it demoralize that person's down the line or does it actually help to streamline the things? Okay, I go back to my first point which I had given the question which I got on the Twitter. Why are the junior leaders performing better and senior leaders not? A senior leader, I'll tell you as a 15 core commander, I never spoke to anyone below the general officer commanding. That is a major role. Only four of them are there. Five of them. I only spoke to these five gentlemen in my entire command of 15 core. And let the juniors do whatever they want to do. And I used to make a public statement wherever there's a gathering of officers or 100 officers, 200 officers. I said, please do your job. Do it sincerely. Do it in a very transparent manner. If the mistakes happen, I am there. I'll take the blame. Nothing will happen to you. So much so, the day 370 was abrogated. I went to all the four divisions, gave only 10 points, 10 do's and don'ts, and came back and there afterwards did not indulge in any micromanagement. And the results are in front of you. The biggest event of the century went so peacefully. Only 10 do's and don'ts verbally spoken in 15 minutes and that's it. Micromanagement involves what? Micromanagement means you don't trust that junior. You don't let him take initiative. You don't let him make small mistakes. You are not grooming him to achieve higher ranks or higher status or higher appointments. You are not making a good commander in the future. You are doing harm to the organization you are serving. You are doing injustice to the nation. We all say youth is tomorrow's future. And if you don't let the youth do their job today, how do you expect them to do their bigger jobs or bigger responsibilities tomorrow? Micromanagement, somebody will say, no, no, sir, it can result in some loss here. We are the organization where losses are irreparable or unpardonable. Our losses are in terms of lives. But I might as well let that young captain make a small mistake today and not let him grow up under a shadow of a senior trying to protect him always, guide him always. And then when he becomes a senior officer, he doesn't know how to do things without guidance. There is a very important line which is written in the annual confidential reports or the present reports as they are called in the civil, in the military, that officer can handle the situations independently or is capable of handling this appointment independently. There are certain staff officers who have an independent approach to the commander. They do the things that they report directly to the commander. There are others who have another staff officer on top of them. And MS branch posts the officers in the independent staff officers where they have a direct access, the officers who are well groomed, well cheered, well mentored, well brought up. And those are officers who rise for the higher ranks. So micromanagement in my opinion is absolutely no. And I'll give you one more example. There's a coursemate of mine. One day he was very proudly telling me he was posted in Kashmir. He says, I call up at random, I call up any company commander. There's a major at 10 in the night at 11 in the night. I call him up and I generally speak to him. So he was trying to say that he'll do a good job. My point to him was I said that means you don't tell whom you're calling tonight. That means you expect all the majors in your command to be sitting in the bunkers next to the telephone and expecting the call from the GOC. They're not on the line of control. They're not sitting in an ambush. They're not going out for an operation. They're not leading the men into combat. They're expecting a call from the general officer so that he doesn't feel that they're missing from the telephone. So it's a visual take. I would go by small mistakes, small issues here and there. But let me groom this young boy to be a good commander. If you're asking the same question, how do you feel that this person has that potential? How do you build it, like we said, going with the topic itself, whether leaders are created or born? So as a leader, how do you tap that this person has a potential? And how do you allow that person to spread the wings and let him fly in the world? See, Army has a very systematic way of training the officers. If you look at the NDA entry, three years of NDA, one year of IMA, then young officers cause some training in the unit and all that. And again, I'll give you an example for a personal life. I was a CO in South Kashmir in a place called Kral. And there was a young lieutenant who had joined. And I had said, this officer will not go for operation for first three months. Let him stay in the unit, but he will attend all the debriefings. Whenever we go out, we have an operation, we come back, there's something called debriefing. We debrief every team member as to what went right, what went wrong, how can we improve. I said he will attend all the debriefings and he will not go out for operations for first three months because he lacks the experience. This young officer had a lot of jobs. Prashant is in him. He just wanted to go out and be part of the operations. One day I was out somewhere and the CO and I got some information. So I called up my unit and I said, okay, send a team from that side. I'll reach from the side with my team. And after sometime I realized Prashant is the only officer in the unit. I said, I hope he doesn't come with the team. I called up the unit again. I said the team should come with the Subhash and not Prashant. And he told me, sir, both of you will go. I said, no, please pull him back. I don't want to expose an untrained person into combat. And when we were coming out of Jammu and Kashmir, we were travelling through Punjab. We halted at my place. And this officer complained to my mother-in-law. We had catered for a cup of tea for all of us in the unit. He complained. He said, ma'am, sir, he didn't let me go out of the post. But the point I'm making is the bigger point. We allow the officer to mature. And then we feel he is good. And let me tell you, first operation when he comes back, the feedback is on the tray as to how he behaved. That's what you said in the beginning. So that first day, first operations debriefing, tell you the potential of that officer. And like I said in the initial stages, every Jawan knows what type of an officer this particular person is. So it's a very systematic process. And as you have more combat experience, you grow to be a better commander. So quite often we say, like what you said, we do. You mentioned leadership. We always say, talk in the host, not in Josh. So how do you decipher that? What do you feel Josh is more relevant? Hosh is the relevant or it has to be a balance between the two? See, Josh and Hosh are two important components of any military commander or military leader. A gentleman who is supposed to take a considered decision after a lot of inputs, he should have his Hosh about himself. The person who has to execute on ground with the fastest speed, he must have the Josh component more. I'll amplify a little more. If a young lieutenant or a captain who is leading a team of 10 people or 15 people, he will have a Hosh component. He will have a Josh component. But in his case, the Josh component has to be more because he has to lead with aggression. Whereas a commanding officer or brigade commander is planning for this operation. He has to be very, very sensible and tie up all the nitty-gritty details, take in all the inputs. He has to have the Hosh component more. Both are commanders. He is a platoon commander. He is a brigade commander. Both are commanders. Both are leaders in their own way. But the level of leadership of the commander ship differs. So that is where the component of Josh and Hosh, the lieutenant or captain, the Josh probably will be at 70%. And for a brigade commander, see how the Hosh has to be at 70%. So this is how one size does not fit all. Leadership is an art. Leadership is an art. And it's a very complex art. So every stroke of brush brings out something new on the canvas. Like we all talk of complaining life. I am reminded when we are in one of the sessions, we had called, not here, but when late Mr. Jiswal Bhatti was alive, once you talked of painting the brush, etc. Then I was reminded that he was a chief guest at one of the functions. So somebody said, sir, what is your take? Like you are seeing all these paintings, etc. He said the best part of human life is that once you give some of the canvas with a painting on and give a paint and a brush out there and say that you can carry out the mistakes, that everybody will change the blue to red, red to black, black to pink. But if you give the open canvas to everyone, probably nobility will pick the brush so that the painting becomes good. He said that it's easier to criticize someone, but once it comes upon you, it's very, very difficult to execute. But we have all seen that the way you, in the manner you do. We have been seeing on the chat, Mr. Dipthi is time and again posting that you are an inspirational story for many. Do you think that there's an occasion where something on OTT, on the lines of milk housing, etc., etc. can come forth? Or what do you think about it? See, I'm an intuitional commander. I go by the movement. I live for today. The day Palwama happened, I was four days old as a court commander. Now there was a situation. We took it head on. We didn't say that, oh my God, what a loss and now we can't do anything. We took it head on and within 100 hours, we eliminated the people who carried out Palwama. When 370 was to be abrogated, it's there in my book, in great detail, full chapter, I was asked, will you be able to do it? I said yes, when? I said no. In more or less same terms. And when 370 happened on 5th of August, there were people, there were journalists and there were analysts, there were Kashmir watchers, there were opinion makers who said, there will be an uprising, there will be mutiny and so and so forth. And we were very clear nothing like that is going to happen. Not a single innocent life was lost for three to four months after 370 was abrogated by the security forces bullets. That is the strength of living for now. But if somebody says, now after the hindsight of 370, everything went well, very nice, no sir, lot of effort went into it, please read the book. You will realize how much effort went into it to keep the situation after 5th August peaceful. And biggest challenge was how to keep it secret or not to let anyone know what's in the offing. So coming back to your point, if and when, as and when, now or when, no. I leave for today. Today we are in this meeting, I am enjoying it, I am sure. The viewers are enjoying it. Let's see. I am reminded of two short quotes from the song. It says, if there are issues, what will happen tomorrow? Yes. This question is again coming. Please explain the role of modern technology in our Indian army in making odds convenient and in our favor. Please explain the role of modern technology in Indian army and in making odds convenient and in our favor. Making odds convenient and in our favor. Meaning they are... Okay, enough. See warfare is a very complex thing. It evolves every day. And especially with the modern technologies coming in, which includes artificial intelligence, the big data, the space, the cyber and what have you. The evolvement or evolution happens every second. The viewers would understand you buy a mobile today, the top notch mobile today, tomorrow it's obsolete. There's something new which is on the market. So the technologies evolve, they are evolutionary in nature. Similarly, the warfare has to now keep doing the catching up. The only thing is military technologies have a long gestation period. It takes long time to build these technologies because they are not the technologies which can be used by a common person and they are not big markets. You make a system, there are only three systems which are required in the army for that. And you develop that system over 15 years. A 15 year gestation period for only three systems. And this 15 years is also the time which the question is referring to, the technologies are evolving. So you make something which you started with and then in the meantime that's obsolete. So the challenge is there. But military technologies are definitely the modern technologies are very much part of the Indian army or the defense forces. There's something called 30, 40, 30. This is the ratio of military equipment which we need to have at all times. 30% is which is nearing obsolescence or which has become obsolete. That means it has given its service of 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, whatever. 40% is which is current. That means it has just come into the service last for 5 years and it has a residual life of another 5, 10, 15 years. And other 30% is at the top of the notch. That means they are the technologies that are at the top of the notch. That means they are the recent and the latest. Now by the time this latest becomes current, the current will become obsolete. And obsolete will go out and the new will come in. So this is how the military technologies or the military equip themselves. In a rotatory manner, it's not that today I'll say, okay, all the times we do have it, we bring in all 5,000 or 6,000 or whatever numbers we have. I'm not going to tell you the exact numbers. All those types we'll replace tomorrow. But it doesn't happen. It takes time, it takes money, it takes technology. So there is a system in the whole modernization process, I said 30, 40, 30, wherein it is over time evolved and introduced. And there's a very stringent process of making a long-term perspective plan in introduction of the equipment, the trial system and then it gets inducted into the service. But at any one time, we are battle-worthy. We are fit for combat in the given environment of our neighbors, our borders. And we are there to complete any task which is there for us to do. I can say in a one-liner what you said that in 15 minutes you gave 10 bullet points. I'm reminded what they say that old-order changes yielding place to me. Yes. Yeah. So he says that I'm aspiring for defense services. I could not make it the grade in the NDA. Do I still have the scope in the CDS? Absolutely. Absolutely. Like I told you, I always give personal examples where I have been personally involved. I have failed in life. I have not cleared a particular exam in the first time. And I made it in the second time, third time, fourth time. Like I appeared for NDA the fourth time. I never appeared for NDA before that because I didn't even know what is NDA. And I appeared fourth time in the past. And you can assume, okay, if I had failed first three times, although I didn't appear. So that means there is a chance to after that. Now, if there are officers who have come to general's rank who did not pass the NDA but they cleared the CDS. The officers who have joined as short service mission officers and reached the general's rank. We had an officer who joined as a juan and then came as an ACC entry and reached the left general's rank. So please defeat or the failure is never final. It is always the stepping stone for the beginning of the success. Never ever give up. My father always says in a later mode, he says, Pali baath haarnani, haarge to manna nahi. So point is, never accept failure as the final. Come back, train hard, prepare hard, give it another try, you're bound to succeed. Well said, sir. As I say, it's better to try and fail rather than failing to try. Sir, now he says. Just because if you don't mind, if you try and fail, rather than not trying only, if you try and fail, you have a 50% chance or probability of succeeding. If you don't try only, you have 100% probability of not succeeding. So think about it. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Actually, some people have posted those questions at a time and again. By the time. Sorry. How to overcome the inferiority complex. Okay. What is inferiority complex? Inferiority complex when you are in school is you are not scoring as good as the front bencher. Inferiority complex when you are in teens is you are not as good looking as the other person. Inferiority complex when you are a youngster beginning your career is you are not earning as well as the other person. But what actually comes? Neither your looks, nor your marks in your eighth class or fifth class and nor what you started your career as. I started my career with 750 rupees of basic pay per month and 350 rupees used to be a mess with because those days the Russians were not authorized to office. So, did that mean that I'm inferior to someone of my civil street partners who joined some multinational and they were earning some 5000 rupees in those days? No, sir. I never measured my life or my status or my feelings in terms of looks, in terms of money or in terms of anything else. I competed about two, three days ago. There was a comment on Twitter which I replied to. Someone said, sir, you are Amtar Bachchan of Indian Defence Force or something. I said, no, sir. I am not in competition with anyone. I am not in comparison with anyone. I am just competing against myself. I want to be a better KJS Dhillon than what he was yesterday. If you are competing against yourself, you will never have infinity complex. Even if you feel inferior, you are feeling inferior than yourself. There is no harm in losing to yourself. So, infinity complex is in your mind. Get out of there. Be happy with what you have because there is no way you can have anything other than that. So, learn to accept it. Improve it. Challenge yourself. Challenge your own limits. You have a tremendous potential. Officers who have done commando course would tell you, what is the limit of human endurance? I did not know till I went for the commando course. And if I had not done the commando course, I would not have known even today. So, the point I am making is you don't know your limits. You don't know how much capabilities you have unless you exploit them, unless you push them. So, infinity complex is not a thing to be thought of. Look at where you went wrong. Look at what you have to improve upon. Do that. Come back with a loud music. Right, sir. Sir, I feel that the time was too less. But as they say, we must take one or two more questions. And I would request if there are some ladies or girls asking some question about family life. Ladies' questions are, what do you feel the scope within the army and how do you see the career ahead for the ladies? What is that? What do you feel the scope of the ladies in the careers in this defence forces and how do you see them ahead? Okay, I will say they are, you know, society. If God wanted only men to be there, then he would have created the world that way. Since the women are there, they are very integral part of our society, our family life, our own lives. And I quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, where Guru Nanak Sahib, more than 500 years ago said, Why have we criticised someone who has given birth to the kings? So I am very clear in my mind, women in the army are very much part of the success story of tomorrow. They have a role, they have a job and slowly and slowly based on their capabilities, based on individual capabilities. Like someone already asked me, will they be joining the combat units? So my reply was, even today the men are there in services, ASC, ordnance, EME, the officers, the male officers. Anyone who has the calibre or the aptitude for a particular job, they will be doing that job. We have the women as fighter pilots, we have the women in various streams and as and when the aptitude is found suitable, the scope will improve. Who had imagined about two years ago that women will be joining NDA? So there is a great scope and they are equal partners in defence of the nation. I will put it that way. Just check it out from the YouTube. Though it's on the WhatsApp, he says that you have been closely associated with 370, Kulwama, Balkor. Just a short snippets of all these things. How do you relive with that and how does the nation you feel that should be re-given with that? Okay. See Kulwama and after Kulwama, Balkor and then 370. I was in a particular chair. I had a particular job to do. The government of the day decided to do it in a particular manner. I as an arm of the government from the military had a responsibility to do that job. I did it to the best of my abilities. I and the team, when I say I am in the team, the army, the Jammu Kishmi police, the CRPF, the intelligence agencies, the civil administration, there was a task given and there was a job to be done. And we did it with the best of our abilities to the perfection if I can say that. So, again, the point to the youngsters. No job is so big. I see today's youngsters, they come back hassle at 11 in the night. I have got time. I got this. I got that. You know, my boss is always on my neck and this that. You have a job. You do it well. And you will get the, you know, appreciation which you're looking for. If you're cribbing to me every day when I meet you for that matter anyone, I'm sure you're cribbing in the office also and the cribbing is showing in your job also. Again, going back to the vacance points, how do you pick up the performer? How do you pick up the future leader? If you will continue to crib about your environment which you're working in, you can never be happy. Who would have liked to be in my chair as a 15 core commander, a Chinar core commander and four days of service in that chair and Kulwama happening. I can dare say no one would take it if I have today again one had to go back in time. But then that does not mean I sit back or I just keep crying. What has happened? No, we met the same evening. Read the book, total two pages, two chapters on this, how we went about it. My ADC is a young captain, Captain Sandeep Singh. That evening when we were traveling for this particular meeting he asked me, sir, what will happen now? He was inquisitive, he was anxious. And pardon my language. I said, we'll get the bastards. And that's exactly what we did within 100 hours. How we did it? What went into it? Is there the book to read? Because you can't just say, what do I do? The nation is looking at you. I can't afford to be defeatist. I will win. That is the message everyone must tell himself for herself. Get up early in the morning, say, I will win today. And you will take it from me. He says that I am an aspirant for CDS. What do you feel that one should do something? Okay, this is a very common question, very frequently asked question. And a lot of emails I get on, by the way, my email for interaction with me, there on my bio, on Twitter and on Insta, anyone can email me. And if the content is respectable, I'll answer. And this is a very common question or common, you know, point which comes to me, because sir, what should I do? I am an aspirant and I have appeared so many times or not yet appeared. I'll take a little time on this. What I want to take on this is just be yourself. Indian Army or Indian Defense Forces do not want fake people. We want genuine people. If you are a 16-year-old boy appearing for India, we want a 16-year-old boy who is genuinely 16-year-old and he is not fake. We'll train him for four years. We'll make the man out of him. We will mold him, we'll train him, we'll guide him, we'll chisel him, we'll mentor him. But if you are a liar, if you are a slimy chap, if you are trying to take the shortest route, sorry, sir, we don't need you. We would need, we will much better take a person who is innocent, honest, transparent, forthright and who says, sorry, sir, I can't do this. Don't worry, we'll make you do this. We'll train you for this. We don't want fake people. Because fake is difficult to take out of a man or a woman. But if you are genuine, we will hone you up to be the sharpest weapon in the nominees. So please, just be yourself. Go there fully confident and say, sir, here I am. I'm a package deal. I cannot speak English. I don't know English. And like Vikas said in the initial stages. And I don't come from the top notch schools here and there. But then there I am. I'm a genuine person who can convey my point in Hindi and my regional language of English. Three years in India, they give you a graduation degree. They teach you 36 subjects. Can you beat it? 36 subjects I've done my graduation in. And I was a BS student. I English in the Maths, Physics, Commissitudes, I've done subjects like engineering drawing, soldering, molting, carpentry. So these are the type of subjects which they put you through and they make an officer out of you. Today I can tell a person who has come to repair my door. This is not the way to put it. Please do it this way. Because I've been trained in it. So please don't think we want a ready-made product. We want a raw, good product. We will train him to him or her. So please don't do anything which you think you are tutored and then going and saying it out there. They come to know. They're experienced. They have been trained to interview people. Just be yourself. I can tell you you will get through. So we have taken a lot of questions and questions we'll keep on pouring. Another thought is that once we talk of Ulwama, Baalkor, Article 370. So we only part with the thought process that it will be the first surgical attack on our session has started when people have actually liked it. We'll come out with the more sessions with General Dhillon. And as he said that the names are always given opposite. Like he's large-hearted, just like a lion. And thereafter, and he's still called as Tiny. Before we part for the day, we all know that his name is Tiny but he has the giant steps. And we know that he has conquered the heart of many and will continue to do that. Stay connected with Beyond Law CLC. And tomorrow again, we have a session at 6pm. Do stay connected with us. And I will say his name is Tiny but our small talks have helped everyone. Thank you. Thank you very much. And especially to all the youngsters who are there on the viewers list. But I'm wishing you all the very best. Do well. Make yourself proud. Make your parents proud. Make your teachers proud. And in the bargain, make the mission. Thank you. And thank you, Navdeep, who helped us to connect with him. And as his name goes, he's always with the new ideas. And that's the way of lightning with the new news. Thank you, Navdeep. And thank you, Mr. Thank you.