 I don't know if it's exactly the difference between directions and generations, but I think there's questions about the environmental stuff. Well, there was some discussion about that. Welcome. Nice to have you, sir. Welcome to see you. I guess it's the year 2nd. Yeah, so it's all that now, right? The last year we produced all these balls. Yeah, alright, sorry. I'm breaking both of them. Okay, I get blamed a lot. Here's a question. Can we ask them to do that? Yes. But it isn't like you have. You're doing a great job. Okay. Yeah. They initially came to see me on that. Yeah. And you have the board's attitude. I'm close friends with your brother. Yeah. Usually that wouldn't deter me. Sometimes it does. Let me go and just stand and talk. That I wouldn't have had a clue what I was doing. Yeah, don't cut other people's trees. Yeah, that's the right audio. Yes. Yeah, it's coming from there. It's the right audio. Here I am testing, testing. It's not really matching up with my mouth probably. So I'm speaking to the camera right now. Yeah. They weren't here. I just looked in the hall to see where they went. And they're not out there. So he's in here as well. Yeah. I don't need to say anything. All right. Everyone's here. Okay. What's that on the stand there? There's Texas. Okay. Send you this room. Well, you guys just while you're setting up. Are you okay? We can wait a minute. We're just doing a little testing. Okay. Just a couple more minutes if possible. Sure. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. All right. I'm in front of the camera now. Saying stuff. Testing, testing. Thank you so much. Let's go. Yeah, you can get started. You're all set. Do I see red light? Yes. It's on. Sorry. Good. Thank you. So we're going to get started. Development Review Board, Burlington, July 16th. Right into the agenda. And then we take up items in the order on the agenda. And when we do, we ask them to come up to the table and sign in. And we square the minute at that point. The first item is our agenda and we have one item that we're going to. We have had a written request from council for 110 Riverside Avenue and we're requesting a continuance to respond to those missing items noted in the staff report. Okay. So when we come to that, we'll load on deferring that communications. There are no communications on our desk. Other than we do have minutes from July 2nd. Anybody has any comments on that? Let me know. And we say we have one new board member, and then Christensen first meeting. Welcome. Thank you. And we'll get right into the public hearing. First item is 110 Riverside. We have a request as very noted to defer that to August 20th. August 20th. So they can complete the items requested by staff. Can we have a motion to? I move that on application 19-0980CA slash MA 110 Riverside, we defer the application until August 20th. I'll second that. Does anyone in the audience here for 110 Riverside? No? Okay. Good question. Any discussion? All in favor? Opposed? Okay. Okay. 1143 Pind is just going away. Stay with the application. So then the next item is 475 Lake Street, otherwise known as the Grand Plan. So this is public hearing, so can I ask whoever is going to testify on this or speak or participate to raise your right hand? And you folks are not going to participate in this. Right hand of your... I just want to tell the truth and hope truth, entertain and penalty perjury. Okay. This is a project that a lot of people know a lot about, which may not be relevant to anything tonight. So it's an opportunity to educate people and present what is really happening. And maybe introduce yourselves as you speak. Hello. Thank you for having me here tonight. Hi. My name is Kirsten Merriman Shapiro. I work for the Community and Economic Development Office for the city of Burlington. And I'm joined by Paul LaBeurre of Engineering Ventures and Alex Halpern of Freeman French Freeman. They're part of the team. And we'll help to answer any questions. And my supervisor, Gillian Nanton, is here tonight. Gillian, say hi. And also the new CEDO director, Luke McGowan, has joined us. So be very nice to me because, you know, I'm trying to make a good impression. And it's also his second week. To that end, as Brad said, this is about the Moran plant. And I hope by show of hands everybody knows what that building is, big building down on the waterfront. Yay. So the Moran plant, we have a new, we've tried a lot of things over the years. We have a new concept and we're bringing that forward to you tonight. It's called the frame concept. For those of you who may not know, the Moran plant was built in 1954. It was coal-fired power plant. It was in operation until 1986 when it was decommissioned. It is notable in its place in history throughout the country, but also in the state of Vermont. It was one of the first places where they determined that you could burn wood chips and get the same energy as burning coal. And that led BED to go ahead and eventually decommission this plant, but then build the biomass plant that we have in the intervail. So it's a pretty exciting little piece of history. And now BED is fully renewable portfolio. And we are, as a city, moving forward to a net zero in the future. Kirsten, can I? I just want to interrupt with one thing. Sorry about that. I meant to say this at the beginning. And I think that, I'm assuming that Scott, because this has changed from having any private development to being a city project, 24VSA is really the rule for this one, right? Which it wasn't before. Right. Prior iterations involved private operators at the end result was this turning basically a city park. Yeah. So even though I think we want to hear everything about it, 24VSA basically says that with respect, that municipal projects, educational projects, that we can only review them with respect to specific things, size, height, both courts, setbacks, densities, off-street parking, a few things like that, lighting, landscaping, things like that. So our review is limited. Does it not mean that we're not interested in the whole thing? Well, I will try and go very quickly through a little, like, how we got to this concept that's before you now. For those of you who lived in Burlington a little bit longer, the power plant was decommissioned in 86. It was sold to the city in 89. And ever since then, we have tried for the last 33 years to fully, adaptively reuse the building. So it's not for lack of trying, the city has tried. And this is a list of just some of the things we've tried. We looked at it as a science and art center. ECHO looked at it before they selected their site at the foot of College Street. We've had a few different children museums look at it. The Fleming Museum looked at it. There was an effort to work with the YMC and Parks and Recreation to build a community recreation center that was rejected by the voters. Some people wanted a baseball stadium down there. It doesn't really fit on the site. We also had a project with the climbing gym museum in the community sailing center. That actually got its permits and then got stalled and did not, we weren't able to execute the lease agreement. Then a private group of citizens came forward through a process and that was the most recent efforts. And after three years of trying on all sides, we really couldn't get it to the point that we didn't have enough permits and so the city discontinued that effort. But out of that, we learned a lot from trying a lot. So what we did do, and I just want to remind people, Burlington's waterfront kind of used to look like this in this area. You had bulk oil tanks, storage, you had coal piles. You had a much more industrial waterfront. And this is really what's happening around the Moran site today. And there's a new section of bike path has been renovated along the waterfront. There's the beautiful pause place down at what people call Texaco Beach. The sailing center has a beautiful new building there. There's a skate park that is used almost every day unless it's filled with snow. But then on those days, they shovel it and skate anyway. It's so crazy. So the city had some options. We could do nothing. The building just sits there. We still have to maintain it. And we might not have any funding to do anything in the future. And that seemed, and it's at the Brownfield site, so it needs to be remediated. We could completely demolish it and you'd get just a little patch of grass. You weren't going to get a lot of value out of that. And then we also looked at the concept of maybe partial demolition. And so taking some of the building down, leaving some of the building, maybe if we can activate it, get access to the public waterfront and create something that can be built upon in the future. We took this idea, coming into that idea, one of the things that prompted us was really to look at the cost of demolition. And we did a very extensive study. It's on CEDA's webpage. And the cost of demolition was anywhere on the low end of 3.9 million to 10.7 million. If you adjust that for pricing in 2019, your high end is almost 12 million dollars. We don't have that amount of funding available. In fact, we do have some funding that was authorized by voters. We have 5.4 million dollars. But that's all the money we have. We don't have any other funds to put towards this project. So that is also one of our limiting factors here. And the other piece of this is those funds are time constrained. If we do not use this funding by the end of this year, the money will go away and we'll have no money to do anything with this site going forward. So the funds are available through a HUD section 108 loan, which we already have in hand, as well as 3.4 in tax increment financing funds that were authorized by the voters in 2014. And as part of the slate of public investment action plan projects. There's other communities who have taken industrial sites and created them into a more park-like atmosphere and community gathering spaces. These are just going to be... I'm just going to show you a few examples. Here's a place in Switzerland. Paris has got a couple places. Thompson's Point in Maine has some very industrial areas that they've made gathering points for the community. The Eiffel Tower is very iconic. So basically we came down on this, brought it to the City Council in December. Partial demolition we see as a win-win. It eliminates a lot of the cost drivers that we had previously that were hindrances to actually getting a project completed. We think it has greater public value. One of the things was winterizing the building was very difficult. Also stabilizing the building for seismic control. Also it was very costly with all of the weight that's in the building from some of the steel. And there's a few pieces of infrastructure that are still there, equipment. It integrates with the bike path, the new Water Works Park, the Skate Park Sailing Center, and there'll be a new marina that is partially open but will be fully open at the end of the season. It enhances more access. We think that we can honor the history of the building and still give a nod to the architecture, even though we are doing mostly a demolition and a remediation of the site. And as Scott mentioned and Brad, you pointed out, this is a city-led project. This isn't a private developer. And once it's completed, our Parks, Recs, and Waterfront Department will be managing the site going forward. And we're pretty excited. And we think it doesn't preclude future opportunities. After the City Council looked at this in December, we went out, we did community outreach. Through January and February, we went to all the MPAs except for Ward 6. We did come back to them in March because they couldn't meet it. They couldn't see us until March, so it was their choice. We had web pages, we received comments. We worked with the Burlington Business Association and the Waterfront Action Group. We went to various commissions. We had luncheons at the family room. We went to some of the senior centers. We came to the Planning Commission, Parks, Arts, and Culture Committee of the City Council, Parks Commission. We worked with Burlington High School's Lake and City Semester Program. So we had a lot of young people and got their input. And then the City Council unanimously directed CEDO to advance this project as quickly as possible to meet the funding deadlines of December in 2019. And basically what we heard was across the board was people were very excited about access to the site. They were excited that it was going to take an eyesore and to create it, take it from being something that detracted to becoming a community asset again. That it's a flexible space. It's not overly prescribed. It is essentially, we'll show you some images, but it is essentially the steel superstructure remains. Some facade will be part of that. And there'll be public restrooms. People were really excited about the two gender-neutral public restrooms. But there is a lack of those on the waterfront and along our bike path. And people thought that it preserved the history and created a visible landmark within the city. And it complemented the other uses. And then I think what we heard from a lot of people is it was financially feasible. It was achievable. It wasn't trying to do too many things. And we thought that we could actually have it come to fruition. So this is one of the renderings that we have where you can see we've removed large portions of the exterior of the building. And there is the eastern facade is still shown. It is mostly landscaping as a grass lawn, which serves or hardscape that will serve as a barrier between the soil contamination and the public. And then Alex, do you want to come up and you can go through some of the more detailed things? Again, Moran is sort of where that red dot is in the center of our waterfront there. Hi, I'm Alex Halperin with Freeman French, Freeman Architects here in Burlington. We've been working with CEDO over the past half year on developing this project. So I'll run through the site plans and building plans that we've submitted briefly to give you an overview. But this is the existing site plan showing what's there today. See the laser pointer works. Okay, thank you. So here's Moran here. Here's Water Works Park, the new marina off to the southwest. The sailing center, Skate Park, stormwater wetland that exists today. There is this pathway from the sailing center over to Water Works Park. This existing paved driveway over here. This parking lot is currently under construction. This is a view from the sailing center, which we took a few weeks ago. So you can see some of those improvements. They used to be in a lot more disrepair over the past years, but some of the boats have moved over to the sailing center. The sailing center still has their yard over here near Moran and Skate Park there. As part of the submission, we've got shots of the surrounding properties. So the electric department, water department, upper left, housing to the east, Water Works Park, and the water department down here, and the sailing center. So the proposed site plan relates about connections. So we're going to connect that bike path to the west within LA here of mixed materials and tie right into this park here. And then continue that connection to the north along the water so that one day that can just continue on up to the improvements that have been recently made. We'll also continue this path. There's a path from the bike path here that goes around the Skate Park and kind of dead ends at the entrance to the park. We'll continue that around and create this earth berm down around so it'll be good circulation. So we're working with the parks department to determine the exact mix. So it could be asphalt, gravel dust, pavers, or concrete, depending on where. So we're working with them to figure out that mix and that's how it was submitted. Okay, so let's see. Am I leaving something out of the proposed plan? So the connection I guess utility-wise and Paul is here. You can talk a little bit more about that, but utilities are readily available in this corner of the building. I'll get into the plans in the building in a minute, but that's, you know, we'll strip the building of its brick, stabilize the frame. There'll be a brick wall on the east facade. The restrooms will be in this southeast corner underneath the cover. Yeah, I think that's good. So this is, again, so in this plan, north is up. The bike path is to your right here running up and the lake is to the left. So the plan is to keep this the brick facade facing Battery Park. We've met with historic preservation over the past months. And like, hearkening back to the history of this site is important. The shape and the massing of this building is there's only a handful of buildings like this left in the country, so they like the idea of keeping that form and we're emphasizing, the plan is to emphasize that we'll talk about in a minute. The roof plan, so although the steel, all the brick will be removed from the building and the existing roofs will be removed, we'll put back new roofs that will be internally drained, so they'll be basically flat roofs with leaders that take that water down and that's for functionally for the parks department. It's a place to offer a lot of shade in the summer, which is, I understand, a sorely missed thing but functionally it also keeps, you know, snow and ice off the structure itself once it's exposed. I can say that those, the structure for those roofs is such that it can be upgraded in the future if they want to do more improvements. So we'll just go through the elevations of the building. This is the north elevation. So we've got in each of these slides you can get, there's a photograph, there's a perspective and then there's just a flat elevation showing the heights. So, we'll take the brick off and there'll be a frame, this rectangular piece here, which is off to the north side of the building may or may not stay depending on its structural condition. The initial review shows there's some decay in that steel that economically may be cost-prohibitive to repair. So we'll look at that. We don't think there's a big aesthetic value to keeping it or getting rid of it. But you can see how it sticks out there. So this is the south elevation. Again, the building just steps. You can see the brick facade here. There was a comment from a staff comment here about the signage we've since marked that up. It'll be a separate package for building signage. Our intent was to, we would like to restore that City of Burlington Electric Light Company sign and we'll have to work on a separate package for that. You can see, so if you're on the south side of the building this is where the restroom pot is tucked under the building. So it's the west elevation if you were at the lake looking back there's walkway in front of the building so you can see the exposed structure of that. I haven't mentioned this yet but the inside of the building today there are these large coal hoppers or bunkers that used to put coal and drop it down into the system. Those will go away but again talking with historic preservation they like the idea of hints harkening back to the history of the building what was there. So we're looking at recreating those forms with some wire mesh and some lighting that can be controlled by parks department. Again, that's an option in this submittal but we would like to do that. So this is the east facade that we're keeping that brick with the openings in this version. You'll see a couple more in a moment. We're keeping the old openings just the window frames of those and it's hard to see from this distance but around the perimeter there'll be a galvanized channel so we have to stabilize this brick because it's now exposed so an edge channel that goes around is lightly illuminated around which helps emphasize that historic form in the evening time. So again there's an environmental there was an environmental study done with the demolition report currently they're going back in and testing many more pieces of steel for remediation. So depending on how the budget comes out we've got several options here for how we could handle that east facade so the one we just talked about is leaving the existing brick there a second one is rebuilding now another type of brick and a third one that we've talked about is maybe build it out of like a steel panels like a core 10 steel panel which is a panel that it'll rust and stabilize and those will be a series of panels that build that up and historic like that idea their approach was to, you know, harken to the shape of the building it wasn't the materials necessarily options here, our number one option is to keep the brick if it's economically too expensive we'd like the option of looking at alternate materials as we show these are just some of those details you have in your package of the hopper and the edge lighting detail this is the edge lighting detail here and that's the hopper and the restroom when we stabilize the structure we're pouring concrete roofs on there which helps stabilize that frame so we're working with the concrete that we'd be pouring to just pour a little bit more and it's a concrete form kind of that trapezoidal form over the restroom with two unisex restrooms in there those full winterized restrooms they are planned to be winterized restrooms that's the intent is to have them operational year round and parks is trying to figure out how they'll end up staffing it but they've done some preliminary budgeting to understand what that would take so currently there's a mechanical room you can get behind the there's a chase wall you can get in there and have heat I think that's good again other options are one of the options in the package is if it, we really hope this doesn't happen but if it does we would be to not have that brick wall in which case we would work on emphasizing the shape of the building with an illuminated edge another phasing option is to the base landscaping plan is planted at this south and west corner of the building we look at adding more plaza in that area these are more technical just the plumbing drawings that we've brought in is lighting so we're really focused on safety here so there's lighting around the restroom and there's lighting in here and some convenience outlets but we are not lighting the entire ground level so I'm sort of disappointed you didn't have a lot of views of the building we have some if you'd like to see more I thought that's why you were here but you also got a lot of variations that it's brick or no brick or core 10s or no core 10s or new brick or no brick you know there's it's hard to know what we're supposed to be reviewing since you hedged your bet and I understand why maybe but you're coming before us to approve something and boy you know we're actually going to approve well the way I look at it is there are two options if there's an option you don't want to approve certainly don't approve that but in our minds they're both equally aesthetically good they're great and you can approve each of them even the landscaping on the south side you had a couple options for that that's the added plaza area and again if that's something you don't want that's not in your design right now if we go back to the pink it doesn't look like it's on the site plan if I look at the first site you're correct the pink area is an added option to add a plaza area in that zone so one of the things first of all I think I like industrial style stuff as a personal aesthetic but my personal aesthetic isn't always what matters so one of the questions I have is what strikes me is if I think of the Moran plan I think of the city of Berlin that sign that's up there and I see a sort of lack of and there's a comment in the staff comments about signage so like what what are you doing with the lettering that's up there now that at least in my mind I've run by a thousand times at this point that I think about those big sign letters it's not just the form it's also says something it's tall and on the waterfront it sort of has a calling so what are you doing to replicate or respect that existing signage and how can we go ahead and answer I think the intention up there now it used to say city of Burlington electric light plant disappeared I do not know what happened to it so please don't ask me I just don't know it just disappeared over time but the city of Burlington is still there and we really like that we wanted to keep that on the building we would like to restore the whole amount but it doesn't fit the dimensionalities of signs for adding those letters back but in discussions with staff and I think at the design advisory board restoring and keeping the city of Burlington on the building itself that's correct do you have the specifics on because I see it there do you have any sheep that shows the specifics of those you're not keeping the old letters right the idea is to keep the old city of Burlington letters that are there on the building and polish them up so the bricks gone there are two rails they'll get painted out behind those letters so they'll feel like they're floating but you're actually going to keep those the idea is to keep those very same letters yeah one I just want to be clear this is not a request for any specific activities in the building nothing like that the current I mean I will tell you in talking to the community everybody has a lot of ideas that they'd love to see in the future but one of the things that I thought in my conversations with Cindy White who's the director of the parks and waterfront department you know and she said you know there's a lot of ideas and some of them may be things that we want to pursue in the future but just opening up this space which has so long been closed off to the community and with the surrounding space that maybe as we start to experience that we're going to interact with it interact with the water's edge so she feels okay sort of moving along with just the restrooms and the shell of the building at this point I mean we have some of the other stuff if you want at the end I can show you the images of other things that people liked but that's not really what this I know there were a lot of options so I wanted to try and just focus on what can we really do with this base approach this very basic approach to building and remediate the site and that is the key piece and leave those possibilities try not to preclude I'm sort of along those lines trying to understand what that means I'm curious about a couple of things one is you have minimum lighting is there in the middle of winter is it enough for somebody to walk around the base of this building on the inside I think of it as a large park pavilion safety lighting at the base so somebody could walk through without banking into the steel at night the entire first floor is not illuminated the part that is illuminated is around the restroom area it just seems a little odd to have this thing that is inviting and you're intending it to be inviting it doesn't have a lot of functions at 5 o'clock on a winter night people could be walking down there and walk into there it's a good point I would say that the other question I'm assuming this is set up for future installation of stairways or other things to gain access to other levels correct we're keeping clear pathways that go up and some of the questions I'm asking are beyond our purview of 24VSA you can ask I want to just touch back on the lighting piece while we are not fully we're not trying to make this overly bright it is illuminated for security there is new lighting here in the new park so you're going to have some spillover there's lighting along this side of the BED building which is on a giant cobra head so you'll have lots of illumination there is lighting along this pathway here along the edge of the skate park and there is very street lighting along the street here and that's up at over 25 feet it just seems to be a safety concern in the general area but within the confines of the existing Moran plant there's there's not the intention of lighting at what one would say adequately for safety well I think we do think it's adequately lit for safety I mean I see your point Brad about perhaps there's a dark corner in the northwest where the light just fades off so we could expand the lighting that we would have there so that you can see a column that would seem to be yeah what's the mindset behind limiting the lighting like that I mean here you have this potentially beautiful structure and nobody can see it well one of the things that Alex had mentioned on the edge here of the eastern facade there is illumination intended in that channel so you will have some illumination at night that will outline that stepped form and we think that will give it some people were concerned about too much light pollution so we've tried to strike a balance between having enough lighting to ensure that it's a safe area and secure and doing too much so it's sort of a balance if you're still on this is a lighting question so my question is more around like the choices that you made and particularly on consideration of how much to deconstruct it sounded like most of that was cost and it's still TBD because I'm not entirely sure what the costs will be so I was just wondering if you even had a sense of some of the probabilities of how much how many walls will be deconstructed versus how much will be alternative materials or if that's just totally TBD based on what you find when you start deconstructing I think the intention is to deconstruct as Alex mentioned to take the roofs off likely it will be all of the facades it's sort of a building that's got a brick veneer a concrete block structure that the brick veneer ties into and then it has a freestanding steel superstructure behind that so in taking that apart we may have to either salvage some of the bricks from the other 3D sides to use to recreate that eastern facade we may find that they are covered in lead paint or PCB paint and we may not be able to salvage all of them and so that's part of we have people in there doing testing now further testing of materials so those were things that led to sort of some of the decisions the funding is tied to stabilization and remediation of the site so that was a big piece of doing that and then public restrooms just seemed like the right thing to do so I'll ask a question to you you have the utilities in the south east corner I think you mentioned and are they set up for future needs of the build out of the building so the power brought in today is sufficient for doing other things in the future that you don't have to do underground work to get to it or anything yeah so I think when we did previous work I didn't have to say your name because you haven't parted so previous work that I've been involved in on the site we do have it's a sewer it was anticipated a larger project here and so the original we're in configuration that we went through in 2008 to 2011 more or less some of that is represented here so there is it in this corner there's an existing sewer manhole that's radiative step flow there's an existing electrical transformer we're going to bring water down the side here we're going to bring a six inch line we believe for future use telecom is like there's three pull boxes right on the side of the building so all those components are really in place for the storm water system this again had anticipated a larger more elaborate project and when we did the larger project which was water fun access north the designing permits looked at the whole site and all the impervious what we did at that point was provide treatment for really focused on the vehicle areas where the pollutants would be coming from and use a site balancing approach again anticipating a larger area so there's for what we have here we're covered what we needed to do for storm water permit at the state level what we did want to do was do a disconnection system for the past but there's additional treatment that's not technically required but it's an easy one for us to do just flowing over long areas there is capacity in the system here we're not proposing any other major changes to that systems here now and we'll take some of the path into that area I think generally overall the project a bigger project was anticipated here this accommodate that yeah they'll cover electric I would think I did mention our setup and again right in this corner I don't know if anybody else on the board has questions for the applicant here at all I have a couple other questions one of them is I'm just curious sailing center has lots of boats stored all around this thing where are they going I'm just curious yeah the city has had a very long and a partnership with the sailing center and we were very happy to see them build their new building and they have a new storage yard so since we weren't beginning construction or deconstruction here at Moran until probably late this fall we've allowed them to continue to store their boats adjacent to the building but we have provided them notice that they will need to move and if any of you have boats stored there October 15th they will have to be away from the building and onto their portion of the land that they lease from the city so we didn't want to interrupt their summer season for no reason so I have a question really maybe for Scott there's a thing in the staff report about closing out permits there's a lot of permits that were issued for work that was never done is that so how do you close out a permit for work that was never done you don't close it out but there are permits that were issued for something that was done that expired without being closed I've talked to Scott and I said I would work with him to figure out what all of these old things are some of them are before the time I lived in Vermont or worked for the city but we will work to get that squared away I have one last question Alex you show the steel rendered quite neutral again this is beyond our domain asking what colors are you thinking about for that steel good question where's that you had it we're trying to show it in the if you look at the flat work we're painting that there's shades of gray right now our intent is to have three shades of gray that highlight the different masses of steel so like the tall form medium form low form you can see that here as well so the low is darker and it gets lighter so this low piece that wraps around you can see it here and then the intermediate level and then the tall level fates fates out more being an architect I've made a lot of piece with tones of gray but it does seem as a sculptural form on the waterfront color would not be inappropriate well I think that's we've got that latitude and the zoning ordinance would paint you're going to paint it you'll take that and paint it we're going to do a closer study we know that that's not it's not a requirement for the submission that french park that was shown at the beginning is quite nice we talked about Tintin and the launching pad but yeah we'll work on a paint scheme and Kirsten I've only heard it once and not again can you tell us what the acronym frame stands for a fearless relook at the Moran electric plant what was that? Say that again a fearless relook at the Moran electric plant and it is also a frame when it's done and it's a framework for the future fearless to me implies we're the color yeah duly noted well we certainly can have that discussion as we go forward we're engaged with parks a little bit more to see if they have a preference around that so I do have one question came to the roof was there any thought put into potentially setting up infrastructure to allow for potential solar panels on the roof at a later date or was there any conversation around that? the roofs are perfectly capable of handling solar panels so part of the frame concept is that you stabilize this frame and you've got the infrastructure to build what you want in the future whether it's occupied space or solar panels that those decks will be capable of handling solar panels it's a nice project and I actually think it's not a bad day to moment for all the other things that have come and gone at this point it looks good thank you anything else you want to add? we have we have no members of the public that's why I think the opportunity for the public to see is really I think we're just really excited that we might have something that again can take something that has been an eyesore and create an asset for the community and to provide that access to the water's edge and there's a lot of things and I certainly can the possibilities are somewhat endless for what you could do as Alex said you could build in you could build on it we would clearly come back before this board if we were to do such things to that extent other than what parks normally does in there but these are some other renderings of future possibilities so I just want to be clear I'm not asking you to approve all of these uses tonight but like things that people like they had this idea of making a small may have pods that had vendors or a parks office in it decks, observation decks were very popular thing, people really got excited about that you can see here this is envisioning a more of a a plaza area versus a planting and we talked about that in some of our phasing we want to be able to potentially think about that one thing I would look like in the winter I hope that the city would think about is more illumination I think it's such a beautiful structure that people should be able to see it definitely think about it that's not always July 16 yeah so you know and I guess I would say with all these wonderful things it's very nice that even with a few caveats where you're hedging your bets we're actually looking to approve a specific thing with the intention of having this specific thing accomplished that is correct not all these but these were things that people talked about so I want to just you know they do give a sense of what's possible in the future but what we want to do is we want to actually do something that we can achieve now with the funding that we have and make the change for the community in the near term and then the community can think about what it wants to do going forward into the future so thank you for your time and your questions and if you have any more I'm happy to answer because I love this building I can talk about it all day and then all day the next day thank you we're going to close the public hearing at this point thank you thank you that is really our agenda we have an annual I missed that this is our annual how can I miss that high stakes we're going to deliberate on this tonight I think we should yeah I think we should assuming everybody's okay quarter six deliberating on this tonight so we probably will deliberate in a few minutes on it you don't have to stay I think you know the routine you don't have to deliberate so this is our our annual organizational meeting so everybody who's not here Jeff said I'm nominated beyond the ordinance committee alright so this is nomination and election of the chair of the vice chair an ordinance committee representative and a long range planning committee representative long range planning committee so the board chair is fairly obvious ordinance committee is the subcommittee of the planning commission it's got three planning commission members one design advisory board rep one DRB rep they meet up to once a month it tends not to be all 12 months of the year they talk about ordinance amendments flesh it out Austin was the latest so we do need to fill that long range planning committee I think AJ you did that I've done that for a while and that is also once a month but that I would say it meets sporadically at best but what it means to meet a bunch of times I don't know if we have anything on our agenda we haven't met in like a year okay so there you go there is sporadically we met a lot for the south end plan BTV thing I would say the ordinance committee's interest because there's things that come up here the ordinance committee all right it nominates already I second let me give that anyways that would be wonderful awesome wonderful all in favor of Zoraya you know you get the post it nominates Jonathan Stevens the long range planning committee sure I'll keep doing it I'm not doing it somebody else wants to get it I'm having to jump in great I think it's great I'll nominate Keenan second all in favor post Brad you want to stay in the chair this is my first year as chair I think in case I want to do it I'm happy to do it a little longer you want to stay on this vice chair all right we need somebody else nominating we can't do it we'll make a motion that Brad Rabinowitz stay chair and A.J. LaRosa vice chair of the Brown Lincoln Development Review Board second second Zoraya discussion all in favor he's on the long range planning committee he can't do it we've done our job it's easier than when Austin gets his old long speech and we got him out of the way ok and now congratulations everybody just for being here ok our meeting is adjourned so you want to know what we're going to do on it