 I call the meeting to order. First up is public comment. This is comment on anything that's not on the agenda. I'm going to mute. Next up is approval of the agenda. I motion to approve the agenda. I second. Those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Consider approving prior meeting minutes. For once, I have no amendments to the motion. I move that we approve the minutes. I'll second that. Those in favor? Aye. Next up is business conversations with invited entities. We have two here in the room. And Elaine from the hospital school, I guess we do have Kristen from Claire Martin. And that was the one I didn't get to. I got to these two on late last week. I think it was even Friday, so thank you for your flexibility. We've got a few different things going on. I think we do have all three of the original stuff that you had talked about. I wanted to get you rolling at least with a couple. So this was the conversation you want to have. It was sort of a broad conversation to be as detailed as you want about current needs, perspective needs, their opportunities for improvement in terms of how we work better together, the things we do well, just to have that general conversation with what are probably the three of the more prominent users from last time. And I'll work on the tech issues maybe while you get going. Some of what we want to understand though are the needs. But then what are the needs that you think the town ought to be providing as part of the police force versus what are the other needs that you have that you would put under the overall umbrella of safety and security and whatnot that maybe law enforcement isn't needed for, that we can make a list of. There's some thoughts on other ways to meet different needs out there that are not necessarily a town law enforcement entity type need to meet, if that makes sense. Anybody want to jump up and down and be first? Oh, Dan's smile first. Dan looks anxious to get home to dinner. No, actually it's probably better off because it's six o'clock and I've been up since about 4.30 so now you need to sit down. My energy's going to fall out a little bit. So I kind of split it up into kind of there's needs in nice cities. Could you introduce yourself, please? Sorry about that. Lamelington, superintendent of schools, Orange Southwest School District. Thank you. The needs that we have, they're not, I won't call them frequent, but they are vitally important when they do occur. If we get threats, students are uttering threats within the school, it's nice to have the police force there. We have a threat assessment protocol that we as a district run. We also try to do that in tandem, especially for the ones that seem more serious, have the police come in and kind of run their own as well so that we can compare notes. We need them available occasionally in this age of trauma-based behaviors to control and contain. If we have a student that's out of control, can't get themselves kind of settled back down again. We will call the police force to come in and help them assist us with that. Again, these are rare events that they do occur. So that's why I put them in that needs category. We would be in dire straits if we did not have those services. There's also the nice city category. It's nice to have the community policing, have the police in and around the building, just checking in with kids and families, getting to know folks a little bit, building trust, sharing knowledge about what's happening. Both with the students and with the families so that if they're in need in any way, we can help them coordinate, provide wrap-around services to those families. Also, if we have kind of minor infractions that are a little bit above what should be happening in a school but not really at the criminal level, it's nice to be able to connect with the police force for diversion. Now, we don't want to get the kids in trouble, but we want to treat it seriously enough that the students get the message that, yeah, this is a big deal. And then, combine training is a nice city as well, so we're practicing our lockdown drills. Anything that we're doing to keep the district safe is a general summary. Lane, when you say the threats are rare, do you have any, do you keep statistics or data? So the student threats are interesting, I would say in my six years since we've been here just off the cuff, ones that were concerning, reached that concerning level, there were probably about three. In terms of having the police come in and assist with threat assessments, there's probably been 12 or 15, but those are for, you always run through the protocols, we have live students that will come in, they picked up the coat for the first time since last time in season, they'll get to school and realize they've got a cartridge in there. We still run a threat assessment just to be sure, but that's what I recall kind of low key. The other thing that typically happens is that when there is a shooting somewhere in the world, in another school district across the country, the students will come in and they'll be a lot of chatter about it. And so while they're just processing and while they're talking, other students might hear what they're saying and think there's a threat being made when there's not. But again, there's still things that we need to check out. But in six years, do you think that there's been three times where you needed to involve the police in the threats? Three times where it was imminently critical that they were involved, given the information that we had. I could probably say there were another four or five times that were turned out to be perfectly fine, but it was really nice to have that extra bodies, extra eyes, extra threat assessment capability. And are you aware at all of times when the principals at the high school have used the police to go check on a student who may be in the area? That would be a part of wraparound services that I call them, so the safety checks, yeah. Is that part of the niceties? Is that, to me, that's a whole different category. Rapper, if you talk about safety checks. Those are, again, it's kind of the community portion. We're hearing things. It's not really a school thing, but we wanna make sure that parents and family and friends are safe. And you need the police to do that? There's nobody else in the school. State police will not do that. We have sought a grant for what's called an outreach worker who could semi-perform that function. And where do you fall on the idea about an SRO in the school? I have been very pro about it since my first year here. I've never done a community-wide survey to get the feel for the entire community, but I can tell you the two or three times that I brought it up as a focus for an open forum. I'll get 30 to 50 people that are dramatically against. And so, but again, that's a small representative body. And so usually the conversations don't go much further. But again, that community piece, the SROs are fantastic. I've worked in two districts or very closely with SROs and it was one of the best relationships ever. Got to know the kids. They actually worked, taught a little bit. They work in our health programs, especially in the drug and alcohol part of the curriculum with the students. Is there money in your budget to support funding towards an SRO? It would be an additional ask, but the community has been very generous with the school districts in the last couple of years. Despite this group of people who you said are against the idea, okay. So it's possible. It would take a bit of investigation and batting with a broader portion of the community to see where they are. And then where the school board stands, I've actually talked with them twice in the last two months about it. There are two or three that are very supportive. The others don't seem forward against it. They're just kind of neutral on it. But again, it hasn't been any kind of high pressure talks. Okay, thank you. Do you have a thought of what it would cost for an SRO? Typically, what happens is we contract it out from local police, contract the person out from local police. I'm not sure what police salaries are. I mean, Scott might be able to say that, but it would be the cost of the actual salary, my guess is probably in the $60,000 range. And then with our benefits package, our benefits package is without another $40,000. The town used to have one a number of years ago. Yeah. And it served quite well, served quite well, but that's the point that the federal grant, if you will, a COPS grant ran out and the school didn't support putting it onto their budget. Yeah, no, a long time ago, before my time. Yeah, yeah. But I have heard, yeah, but I've had some discussion with folks about it. Yeah, she didn't. She didn't. So I was sorry to see her go because she did other policing work at the town when she wasn't at, when she wasn't in her active role as the SRO. Yeah. Yeah. In our case, if we had one, they would be primarily housed at the high school but they would serve the entire district. Notice in the town reports, and the reports went up by the school and voting on it as well. It seems to me that each year there's, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting in surpluses and there any way that that can be diverted enough to pay for the SRO, say across 60,000 in salary and 30,000 in benefits, we all know what it costs. So you don't get to spend that year a hundred thousand dollars on that. Is that money available to be used in that way? Not unless the town votes were to be used in that way. So what happens is if we have a surplus at the end of the year, which we typically do, a lot of it is due to the ESSER grants which are drying up this year, the American Recovery Act grants. When we have a surplus at the end of the year and on March 7th, we can do a couple of things with the money. Usually, we roll a good chunk of it over to pay, you know, kind of offset taxes for the coming school year. On the March vote, the town can vote to target some of that money for specific purposes. Like we have a facilities reserve fund, so often we'll have them put some money in the facilities reserve fund, but it is targeted for specific facilities. I did create during COVID an operational reserve fund which is kind of more fluid just to keep the school operating. So we could potentially with the surplus, you know, put money into the reserve fund for the coming year. Not that it would pass. I'm pro-ESR, you know, but not that it would pass or it would nice to see the voters, you know, to get that data out of it. Yeah, like I said, I'm certainly not opposed to unburied pro-ESR. The same thing would help out Scott, a lot of it is other kinds of duties. You'd have someone right there that maybe could visit all of the schools as it needs, I don't know because it's a much larger district than it used to be back then, too. Well, yeah, the other thing is that if the district is paying for the SRO, we can use it in the other two towns. Right, right. Because the tax money that we have comes in not just from the statement, it comes in from the two towns. Thank you. Yeah, Bob, good questions. Do you have a sense on how your teaching staff feels about having an SRO? In the past, the union, not necessarily the union body, but some of the union leaders have said they are against. A lot of it, the comments I get is, you know, we don't need a firearm in the schools. What would their alternative be, though? Basically, what you said, if they don't want that, for the support. Clarify the question for me. Well, I mean, like, if they don't want an SRO, but what else would there be to get the support they need except from the local police? What would their, what other... There wouldn't be. It wouldn't be anything. Like I said, the one thing that we have had done now that I've got a person who's kind of dedicated to grants is we're trying to get an outreach worker, but that's more for wrap-up services, right? Things that we recognize that there's something going on in the family that's affecting the student's life. We work with the student, but an outreach worker can actually go into the home after hours, work with the family, work with the student, and try to also connect with the state services. Is that the only thing? Yeah, so we've been working on that. You said you're trying to get one? Like is the issue, you have the funding for it, but you can't find the people? We're in the middle of the grant process for it. If we get it, it might be something, it was a significant amount of money, I don't remember the exact dollar figure, but I think we could actually get two. And then that would be something that when the grant funding came up, I might come to the town and say, hey, they've been doing really good work. It actually might reduce some of the policing workload if they're doing a good job. We'll kind of see how that goes. So we're looking down the road, like 2025 maybe? I hope the next school year. Next school year. So not the current one already. Yeah, okay. For folks both in the room and online, we've got a request. If I have a soft voice, I'm trying to project. So if everyone else can, it helps that capture better. And for folks in the room and online, to the extent we can use our theater voices, use our outside voices inside, I guess. Try to be unique to the wire of the semester. Can I get y'all that little metal mic for next time? So thanks, sorry about that. Do you have any more questions for Lane? If anything comes up later, you know I'm happy to pick up any of the topics we think this is what's needed. Thanks for coming tonight. Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll move on to Dan. Who avoided the first place on C. Dan Bennett, I'm the CEO of Gifford. So I'll go with the format that Trini asked about, what are the law enforcement and then the other sort of quasi law enforcement or our community support. Remind me of this, because I have a soft voice too. So I think the most high profile in terms of law enforcement is when we do have acts of violence at the hospital. Typically that would be in the emergency department. At times it could be in other settings such as the inpatient unit or it could be in one of our practices. But typically that would be something that would occur in the emergency department and we would put out a call to law enforcement. That occurs about 10 times a year. So again, I'd say that's more the strict law enforcement component of it. We have a number of other things that local law enforcement supports us with. Orange County when they had the contract and now the local PD. The biggest one or the most frequent is we have a drug and take back kiosk that we have in the main lobby at the hospital, which historically had been down at the police department and came up to Gifford in 2018, 2019 maybe. And the reason being that I think we get grant funding to get the actual box. But also secondary to that was that it wasn't heavily utilized down to police department and the thought was there would be more heavily utilized at the hospital. And that has been the case. It's about 20 to 25 times a year. That needs to be empty. And that is done with one of our pharmacists from the hospital, there's two keys. One of our pharmacists and then a law enforcement officer empty that and take it to be disclosed. I apologize, I meant to look at the contract to see the specific language in it. I looked at it a couple of years ago and I believe it's best practice that it be done in the fashion we're doing having a pharmacist and a law enforcement officer do that. I would say from our perspective, we wouldn't do it unless we had a law enforcement officer involved just because of the safety because of the issues with handling of discarded drugs. Sometimes there's needles in there, that sort of thing. So that's about 20, it was 20 times last year. At this point this year, beginning of September, we're already at 18. So it would probably be 20 to 22 this year times that that would need to be emptied. I'll just say for the, because it's a good number, there was over 500 pounds of disposed of drugs that were taken away last year by law enforcement from those bosses. So it's a significant community benefit to do that and we do it in partnership. Dan, sorry, can I just interrupt you for a second? So Scott, when you give us the data on the involvement so if there's an, like if Giffords address comes up as you're responding to, does that include this 20 to 25 times a year? You're there to empty the prescription thing? Yes. So you actually, so is there any way to tease, we don't have a way to tease that out because it just shows up as an address with how many times you're there for an emergency or like a? Or it might be labeled differently. It could be labeled differently. Okay. Because majority of the ones that we do for like say the drug take back or a veggie vancoe or a Giffords mild or things like that would be a agency assist. Okay. And if it was something else, a threat, any act of violence, it would be labeled as? And is this thing a time consuming thing about what Dan's talking about? It takes us maybe 10 minutes. Oh, okay. That key's not that hard in there, right? Depends on who the, if the pharmacist is chatting away that day. Depends on the chat of that too. All right, okay. That goes both ways, I don't know. All right, sorry, Dan, thank you. So that also is something that, you know, it's not an emergent. So if it's full and we call and they're not available, we can wait, we end up having it. So it's not accessible for a small period of time. Typically, you know, we can get it empty pretty quick. Scott mentioned veggie vancoe. That's the drive through free food collaboration that we do with Vermont Food Bank. That's once a month, so 12 times a year. We have been using law enforcement to help with the traffic control. On that, if any of you have been through there, people light up anywhere from a half hour to an hour early under 12, stretching back towards Shaw's. So that is helpful. Again, it's not a hard law enforcement activity, but it is helpful to that. We did, Gifford, we did talk with Vermont Food Bank to find out, because officially it's their event, we did talk with them about whether they felt it was necessary to have that traffic control they didn't want it. And I believe that they're now, Randolph PD is now billing them for that time that they spend on that traffic control. Same thing with event support. Scott mentioned the last mile ride. That's basically, I mean, thought it was one event, but there was three different events that occurred with that. And Randolph PD is billing us for the time for that as well. There's a lot of phone contact as well and regular communication. We will know sometimes that we have somebody coming in for an appointment who has had some challenges or made some threats in the past and will let, I'll just say to answer one of the other questions. Communication is excellent. Collaboration is excellent. We enjoy the relationship when you have to contract with Orange County and now with the current Randolph PD as well. So we do some coordination there. Typically though, that does not result in an onsite visit unless something goes wrong. I would just also note that we have supplemented at different, we've had, I've been there for seven years. So at least for six years, we've had a contract for in-house security that is there after hours during the week. So starting at six o'clock at night, going overnight until six a.m. And then on the weekend, 24 hours, and then they cover our recognized holidays as well. So we are paying for that service secondary. They do not carry, they're not law officers, private security, so they don't carry weapons. They don't have tasers or anything like that. But that has been really helpful in having them present in situations where there is some sort of escalation and they are trained in de-escalation techniques and support our staff and are considered part of our team when they're on the job. So that has been very helpful as well. And I do think that that over the years has helped reduce the need to call in law enforcement for specific events as well. And that's, I think, the answer that I had to the specific questions. I'm happy to take any other questions. I just have an observation. If I can, listening to both of you in what services the police provide for you, it's extensive. And I don't think the public generally even knows about it or understands it. The only thing we know about the police is that they might be stopping us coming up and down Main Street. But they obviously are doing an awful lot that the public doesn't really know. That's my observation. As I noted, the relationship is really good. A lot of communication and the number of actual law enforcement calls are not a lot, but the communication and the collaboration is extensive. But to Trini's comments before, it's not, the vast majority of it is not what you would consider to be hard law enforcement type activities. Dan, in those 10 times a year, you said roughly for the violence and the ED, do either of you have any idea of the average length of time that takes? It could be anything. Whether it's a assault piece, it's a out of control mental health patient that may take 10 minutes, it may take two hours. We've been there for hours on them a couple times. It all depends on the circumstances of why we have called up there in the first place. So it's hard to put an average on it? Yeah, we don't track the time frame. I did ask a few people that question and they said the same thing. It really just varies situation by situation. The other time piece that's associated with that which Dan had mentioned is the communication. So after you do have an event like that, there are probably hours with the communication. Sure, sure. And Scott, do you ever sit with patients in particular mental health patients who are waiting to get transport to some other hospital? No, because of, even with the Sheriff's Office because of being first staffed or whatever, it's can we get the patient de-escalated enough where the Sheriff's Office feels comfortable with law enforcement being absent out of that way? That's usually when we will take place but we don't sit on those patients from the clock. And you don't have people, I'm not talking about the security on the weekends and you don't have in-house people who would sit with patients or do you? We do, yeah. Again, depending on if somebody is on involuntary, hold for mental health reasons, we would have one-on-one with one of our staff. That could be the security agent or have been a security officer. There have been instances where we've worked not so much recently because of just workforce issues but where we have been able to communicate with our contracted security and they have brought an extra security officer in who can sit as well but we might have a LNA and we actually in some instances will have a nurse that's sitting outside that room for a one-on-one. Typically it's not law enforcement unless somebody is in custody of law enforcement. Excuse me, that might not be the local PD, that could be the state. Well and you have a bunch of rules around law enforcement using restraint in your hospital anyway, right? I mean CMS would get a little upset. Yeah, that's been, again, losing track of time a little bit but in the last two, three, four years that's been the rules have changed or the way that the rules have been interpreted have changed and that's changed the response as well. So we are not allowed to have the same type of law enforcement response that you would have previously. Right, the change in the rules has been away from using law enforcement. Right, exactly. Any issues with staffing on the security team? Not currently, not currently, we have in the past. There's somebody there when they're supposed to be for the most part. For the most part, we switched companies, I wanna say a year ago and the new company has had more of a consistent staffing than the previous company did. Previous company did a really good job but they ran into situations where they were having trouble filling those slots. When we brought the new company in, they actually hired one or two of the previous people from the other company, so we had some continuity there. Those guys have done, and men and the ladies have done some real nice work with us and that has been a good relationship you've probably interacted with them as well, Scott. Can you explain if you have any needs up at Maury and Orchards? Because that's another property that you have that's within the town, maybe not the district. Yeah, that was in my notes, thank you for hearing me up on that. So, we've had a few events recently, primarily since the recent situation with the Sheriff's Department, and them not being able to provide as much coverage countywide. We've had a number of suspicious, I would say suspicious activity on the grounds more than Orchards where we've called and it's been after hours, nighttime typically, or the weekend, so we've gone through to the state police and it's taken anywhere from an hour to several hours for them to respond, which at that point, whatever suspicious activity was going on has dissipated. But there's been a couple of situations where we've had against suspicious individuals who've tried to gain access to it, I believe once at the nursing home and once at the independent living, they were not able to gain access because of our locked facility. But that's been pretty scary for people and there hasn't been, the state police don't have the resources either. So that's been an issue. So again, it's on one hand that I can count, the facility's not that old. Yeah, and I'm talking about since the end of January when the Orange County stopped providing the coverage that they used to. Interesting. So not to get into your security system, do you camera the property or have some kind of, would like Hunter North or whoever the, I think you mentioned as a newer company, would they respond from the hospital and come up? Yeah, so it was Hunter North, now it's Sensor. They are strictly at the hospital, so they're not there. We do employ, we have a number of safety measures we have in place, including cameras, but it's also a large property with a lot of outside open space and we can't cover it all. And it only records the event, it doesn't do anything really just to stop the event. Yeah, so I don't want to get in too much depth about the security measures on camera, on my cell phone camera here, but yes, we do have security measures. Great, great, thank you. We do training for the vast majority of our front-facing staff as well. We've done CSI, not CSI, it's crisis de-escalation training we did for a large number of employees over the last several years and then we started going to doing Moab training and Moab stands for management of aggressive behavior. Nice. So we do that training, and it's not all 600 people that work at Gifford but we try to get that out to anybody who's in a front-facing position so that they have some tools in their tool belt as well. Thank you. Any more questions from Dan? I actually have a question for a man who wants to answer. Sure. Okay. He didn't use all his time, he did not use all his time. Dan has used all his time, right? That's fair, Dan. Dan made me think of special events, like what about the district and special events? Yeah, we do, usually, they should be paying for the duties. I know Scott is offering me some security issues last year kind of relative to the cultural flashes that were going on that were showing up and providing support and distribution to the folks who are safe. We've got traffic control, like I know the 5th and 6th grade, 5K, Scott was present in graduation, or? Necessity versus nicety, those would be for community policing, it's awesome to have them there. But it wouldn't fall under a lack of necessity. If we're calling for a duty, if we've had threats from out of state, like we had last year, that's a necessity, we're gonna have folks there. But typically, the duty fees that we offer to them, that sometimes you don't make sense of it. Yeah, what about having, I know you have a presence used to anyway, of officers at basketball games. Boys, home, little, yeah. Games. You're duping yourself? Am I? I remember. Me too. Am I? Yeah. Didn't I used to get a ride home with you last year? I don't know. Oh. So that has been. You're still getting it. That hasn't happened in a while. In the front seat of the back seat. Sorry, you're gonna have her sometimes? Are we still on camera? It's been about a year. It's only been a year, okay. So that's not a thing anymore? So due to the staffing issues that we have with the Sheriff's Office, we weren't able to come, we tried to pinpoint like major games, games that have major rivalries, to try to get an officer there. Lamestown, excuse me. And we kind of morphed into the night officers swinging in, double checking. I see. And then currently where we are, I don't have the staff to be able to do that. And Lane, can I just piggyback on that? Speaking of Moab training, do you guys get Alice training or de-escalation training as well, right? Yeah. We just actually, we completed across the district, and we're getting here after we do all the kids again, especially after last year with the security concerns. But that doesn't keep your staff from calling the police if they need to. I mean, that's just- That matter of fact, they're encouraged, especially if they live as an emergency situation. It's not normal. Okay. That's your first, that's your first maybe. Get yourself safe and all that. Mm-hmm. Okay. Sort it out. Great. We're ready to move on to Claire Martin. Great. I believe we have Kristen- Hi, everyone. I'm Kristen Briggs. I'm the Program Director of Access and Acute Care at Claire Martin Center. Can everyone hear me okay? We can. Yes. I apologize. I know that my screen without my videos, the one popping up on the large piece and I'm up in the corner, but I was having trouble with my computer audio today, so I didn't want to risk it for this meeting. So I'm on my audio phone here. So I guess following the same, the same structure that Dan just used and was used before, I think for the most part at Claire Martin Center, when we're reaching out to law enforcement, it really is consultation or when they're reaching out to us, there's consultation in both directions on a situation. Wondering if the involvement from the other entity is something that makes sense, really discussing the lens of why, if we're reaching out, we might say that we are thinking about going out to a home. We've heard there's a serious risk of harm to self or others. We either don't know or do know that there's weapons present and depending on what the threats have been, we call the consult with law enforcement to see if that's something that would be a possible joint response for scene safety. And the other direction, you know, it might be that law enforcement is reaching out because they have had some kind of connection with a person that they believe to be known to Claire Martin Center and they want to see if there's an existing relationship that might support the situation. They might be trying to help divert criminal charges or something like that if they know that the presenting issue is really around mental health concerns. And of course with confidentiality laws, you know, we may or may not be able to support in the different ways that might be sought out, but it's that collaboration. I think Dan was speaking to this just a moment ago, that collaborative relationship and keeping that open. And that's exactly what consultation is. It doesn't always result in action, but it's having the conversation around what might be possible or appropriate for the situation. So that's the largest way that we use law enforcement is the consultation piece, information seeking piece, and then there may or may not be some kind of joint response or single response following that. If somebody were to come to an agency setting, just like I think any place in the community, if somebody were to come and be making threats, not willing to leave, when asked they were presenting with violent behavior or something like that, of course we would reach out to law enforcement that really doesn't happen very frequently at all and hasn't happened for multiple years at this point on site. And we would also, if there were ever a situation where we needed to have no trespass order or something like that in place, we would certainly reach out to law enforcement. And then if that wasn't being followed, we would reach out. But that's also not anything that's currently a situation. Sometimes with specific people in the community, the law enforcement might be familiar with them or we might be familiar with them and there might be very visible ways that they struggle in the community. So oftentimes under what's allowed with emergency response for both us and law enforcement, we'll collaborate on a plan of how will we approach this situation if there's continued need. And how can we do that together and also stick to the same plan that we make so that we're not creating a split between us. So I know specifically Scott and I have worked together in that way previously. I imagine that'll continue with the local police department. And that's really the gist of it. We don't really have events or anything where there's law enforcement presence or safety presence, the other things that were mentioned. We do sometimes have different efforts where we're trying to put on some kind of community event, not necessarily as the host, but a bunch of partners or citizens from the area trying to put something on in the community. Then there might be involvement and collaboration there, but it's really around that community presence and not something that's specifically being directed that needs to happen. So we did some community events where we showed the Ernie and Joe film, for example. And I know that there was a presence from law enforcement there as a way of supporting and education to the community. And then again, I just want to go back to the community response. If we're going to someone's house or thinking about responding to someone's house and it's really going to be an unsafe situation, we don't have, of course, we don't carry tasers or firearms or anything like that. And we don't have that. And we're not trained in the same way that law enforcement is in terms of community safety. And so when we're going to a situation that we think is really likely to put staff knowingly in harm's way, we're not able to respond if we don't have that collaborative response. And even if we were to send more than one staff, that doesn't do anything to make them any more qualified than one staff for that response. So we really keep consultation with law enforcement around that most often. And like I said, it doesn't always result in actually anybody going out to the home. Oftentimes we talk about if the circumstance were to change or if we were to get more information or for something like that, then perhaps we can make a plan of how we will respond as a situation evolves. But it's not necessarily a rapid response that we're doing in the moment. So Kristen, in those situations where you feel the need for the safety of your people, that you need law enforcement, any idea, again, we're asking everybody the numbers, like how often, let's say in a month that you might call on Scott or the Randolph PD to assist in providing that safety. Yeah, that it's less than once a month. I would say it's closer to a handful of times a year. And that's a that would be a high estimate. We go through pocket the time where there's more concerns. But if we're talking specifically about the direction of us reaching out to law enforcement, it's probably closer to about a handful of times a year and does not always result in the in-person response. It's also common for law enforcement to reach out to us about those same situations where they got a call from someone in the community, somebody at home, they're concerned about safety, they're concerned about someone and so they'll consult with us and see what we might think is appropriate for mental health response or ask us to reach out and try to make contact by phone. And that probably, yeah, I can go both ways. So if I, so I speak to that specifically because I think it's about a handful of Claire Martin reaching out and then it's probably about the same for law enforcement though, of course, there's an ebb and flow sometimes for that. But on average, yeah, I would say that it's probably between five and 10 times a year total that that significant situation is happening where we're thinking about going out to a home with those unknown. Insulting with each other. What about a number on the amount of times that you just consult with each other, whether it's the PD calling you or you calling them? Even if it doesn't even if it's not resulting in any type of home visit or anything. Yeah, I do want to say one specifying thing that clarifying thing that I think would be helpful is I'm talking about the entire catchment of the Claire Martin Center, which would be Orange County and then six other towns outside of Orange County. So these aren't numbers that are specific to the town or even the village of Randolph. Okay. And so I just want to, I realized I needed to definitely clarify that the number is much lower if we're talking about Randolph specifically. And I'm sorry, can you repeat the question that you just asked? I apologize for that. Yeah, you had said that the majority of the contact that you have with the police department is consultations either from your office to them or in reverse. So just approximately how many times a week, a month, a year. That really, again, has been closed. And I hesitate to put a number out there because typically how it happens is somebody, you know, might be in a space where they're not doing well and that presentation is concerning. It's getting attention of people around them. And so it might be something that that law enforcement and Claire Martin Center are aware of for quite some time, you know, several, meaning several days or something before we're able to get that person to engage with us. And so we'll be talking, collaborating, seeing if there's any updates in what's been allowed within our lanes there. But that would be brief, brief conversations of just, is there any change? Is there anything else we should be planning for? That can sometimes happen, you know, for days or weeks before we're actually responding. But those are generally like after the initial conversation five, 10 minute calls, something like that. And again, in both directions, I think currently with the Randall police department, I think we, you know, we have this open communication. If I, if I need to reach out, I'll reach out to Scott directly. He knows he can reach out to me directly as overseeing the emergency services. But certainly, certainly that, that amount of calls has been quite low lately, lately, meaning the last several months. I think, you know, prior to COVID and prior to changes with some of the use of force pieces, I think everybody looked at things a little bit differently. Then we would, I think it sounds like we all agree, things are different now. And where do we, what, what are our lanes? In what ways should we be responding to different things? You know, that's something we've all paid a lot of attention to. So we really try to utilize law enforcement only when it's, when we feel it's necessary for safety. The other thing that I just will mention quickly is we have the duty to warn peace, which we very infrequently utilize police for this because we don't, we don't always need to. But if somebody made a comment that they had, if they were not just made a comment, but if they were making threats that they were going to seriously harm or kill somebody or seriously damage property where there could be people present that could be injured or killed from that, we have a duty to make sure that that person, that potential victim is warned. And so if we are not able to reach out and warn them directly or if somebody makes that threat and then leaves saying that they're headed to do that then right at that moment, then we would reach out to law enforcement in support of trying to keep that from happening. But that is a very rare occasion where, where we're needing to reach out to law enforcement. And I think we've done it once in the, in the last several years where we had to reach out to law enforcement. We were significantly concerned that someone was on their way to harm another person in the community. Any questions from anybody else? And I don't know Scott, if you had anything that you wanted to add, I know I'm not sitting over there with you, but I, I wasn't sure if you had anything you wanted to add to that. You did, you did, you summed it up perfectly and the big, the big piece was the communication all the way around on how well we can, our offices can communicate in regards to the community's needs. Seems to be a theme amongst these community people. Scott? Great. I think that gives us the three entities. The only other one we wanted was BTC, right? These were your first three. So the question is, did you want to stack a few others for next time? We talked about BTC, we talked about the safe line. I didn't know you had a priority list of who you might want next. I think here's third follow up. But I think, I mean, you're certainly welcome to say it's a public meeting, but I don't, are we done with them? I mean, can they be, you're free to go? If you would like. If we just stay as well. Yeah. And Kristen heard my stomach growl. Thank you. Please go free to reach out if you have other questions. Thanks, Kristen. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for inviting us. Thank you, sir. See you. It's like the great communicator over there. Yeah. They love them. Yes. That's all I got out of all that. Yeah. It's a love fest. It's getting real good. I needed that boost. You want to go pay him? That's later. The other one we had talked about was some of the businesses that had higher demands. Sure. We have some people working on that. You know, with the farm, McDonald's combo, Railaid, company and farms, maybe Charles, too. But those are the ones that it's gotten listed. I feel like everybody's gonna say the same thing. You know, we just love him. He comes to see us. Yeah. Those are morale keeps us going. Yep. Is he a state police? they would just give us the same thing we've already given. We can't do it. You're wasting your time in the shot. We can't do it. We have limited staff, multiple staff. We'll get there when we get there. How many calls do you get to the rather bring in Cumberland firms and shots or whatever? How many calls do you get to those particular locations? Because someone's acting up, or someone may be sealing something. For those businesses. There's also been issues with drugs and bathrooms. I don't want to place those too. I think it's worse than a couple of years ago. They died. They died. Do we have any Augusta? Yeah, it's been posted. Yeah. Oh, it came out. Okay. Rinkers. That's the barn. The barn. Oh, that's the barn. Okay. So I think that since we are considering what the district may be and how it may change, I think it would be smart to talk to some businesses that are currently outside the district just for their take on what their needs are and if they are being met by VSP and or if they could be met by Randolph BD. So maybe like McDonald's, the barn, BTC, and actually you said Shaw's is outside the district, technically. Right. That may give us some help deciding whether we need to redefine the district or not. Right. Where you go to get a perspective from East Randolph. The store, that's the only business down there? KED's down there. Right. There's some smaller businesses that are mostly like home businesses. Something they heard was they were worried of the travel distance from the present district to arriving there. VSP could be coming out of Stockbridge to arrive there. That's going to take even longer. No, I understand. That's some of the concerns. I heard the same concern about the ambulance. The ambulance is now moving down towards Bethel. How fast do they get to, you know, up on Chelsea Mountain Road? Could Chelsea respond quicker? Right. That's what Brookfield did. They split theirs as a response time. One thing that stands out to me is like, it's like you, it's like building blocks because every, every, once you start building on what Gifford needs and what the school needs and what businesses might need, and it's a lot when you put it all together as far as what service, you know, how many people just serve those areas. And then also, you know, just Gifford like everybody uses Gifford too. So it's just because of its location doesn't mean that people aren't using that or the schools or, you know, and so there is that too. Oh, you mean non-texturing. Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So just because the location is inside the district doesn't mean people outside of the district. The service area is wide. The service area isn't East Randolph and North Randolph and South Randolph. The service area is up through Bethel, down into Shannon, all the way up to Braintree, Roxbury, and every one of those. Because all the way to Montpelier, people come a long distance for their childbirth services even and sometimes that requires law enforcement if the baby's porn addicted. So it's a wide service area. That's this point that came up, as I recall, at town meeting that people were getting up and talking about, you know, even though they lived in other parts, they lived outside of the police district, they were still considered, they were getting services from the police because they were sitting in the Chandler at that moment or they were, you know, driving through town or whatever. Yeah. And some of that turned to the conversation that came out of that was should those that are outside of the police district pay the same for the service? Right. If they're supplementing the downtown area or whatever, what should that look like? Right. And that came from the comment of Tim Angel. If they go by your house three times a day and I got to pay the same rate, they'd better be coming by my house three times a day out at the end of Claywhite Road. We haven't talked about the trolling either. We've only been talking about emergency services. Right. But it was that whole scene. Right. Well, yeah. Getting from downtown Randolph to the end of Claywhite Road is a, that's a hall. That's right. Scott, if it weren't for your call, would you go by daddy? Yeah, you would. So what's not being talked about is like, you drive by us through their parking lots on my way home. Okay. Because they've reached out. I don't feel safe. I'm kind of lacking where to put off my powers. There's just people walking through the parking lots. We're trying to bring in those aren't talking about. What's on the way home? Oh, is that what's happening up there? Is it, is Vandals into the parking lot cars? And also people trying to get access into the buildings. Into the buildings. So is that newer than it? I mean, they're new anyways, like you said, but is that newer like recently more, more so than it was like a year ago? In a year ago, with Sheriff's Office, you have dedicated patrols. You don't have any patrols up there anymore. Yeah. But you have that police services fund. So do you, so do you segregate that up and drop from that police services fund? It's right on my way home. To my loop. I have it home. But what if you interrupted an incident? So then. Then it would be a call that was happening outside of those districts for that fund. That was the original meaning of the fund. Yeah. Yeah. Was that. But that's your answer. It was already understood that, you know, except for four, 65% of that comes from taxpayers outside the district. Usually that fund was set up to be like $20,000, and they hardly used like $4,000 a year out of it for a couple of years. However, there may be more need today, and maybe that $65,000 is what's powerfully needed right now for the coverage that Scott does use outside the district. Like just dropping in and having a check on something out there, I would expect that you're being paid for it. You know what I mean? In some manner, or it's at least charged against that fund because it is a service that helps outside that district. Scott, what about East Valley Academy? Is that ever anything that you're called into it all, or public speaking, or anything like that? Mark, I would. I haven't been out there yet for sure. In the past, we've had, out of control, we've done all sorts of things, but they really do a really, really good job at being able to manage. There's only been a very small handful of any kind of law enforcement response out there in East Valley. And usually it gets called out, but we're quicker. And we'll go accordingly. We've done that one with the Sheriff's Office. Yeah, Sheriff's Office is always over that way. Not always, but it's right near. Because logistically, it would be a lot quicker for you to go to East Randolph or somewhere, and then it would be for the State Police. Absolutely, yeah. Do you see the State Police coming through town a little bit? I haven't even noticed it yet. I was coming down to, you know, the 166th Park right there. I'm by the Catholic Church just kind of watching things for a long time. You've got a couple of medications that are looking for certain individuals. There's a few that actually kind of a few days there was a whole lot of cars pulled over in Randolph. They were all black pickups. And I had a son that got pulled over, but he wasn't who they were looking for. They were looking for somebody in a black pickup? Is it dark blue? Maybe on the patrol, something we haven't really touched on yet is patrol versus response. I don't know how to put you on the spot. But what's a general sort of patrol protocol or district-based service? So, I mean, you're going to hit the hot spots. You're going to hit Ridge Road. You're going to hit 166th. You're going to hit Route 14. And anywhere that we have any kind of complaints, I'm getting into, you know, from what we did in Sheriff's Office, you know, we would get those speed complaints on Randolph or whatever. So, let's go out. Let's sit on that. And we'll go from there. We're like, God, suspicious activity going over the bridge on Hever Hill, you know, whatever. And then we'll go out and tailor and hit accordingly to kind of tailor those patrols. Inside the district's, roughly the same district. I mean, inside the village district, you're at a two-square-mile area, so it's a lot of circles. That's the shark. It's a lot of circles. But, you know, as you draw it, you know, you're due to go town-wide or even expand the district. Now you're going into a bigger patrol area where you've gotten out and maximized. And so the small circles here may be making bigger circles, and that's just one of those parts of pieces you're going to play with to maximize the most amount. Well, it only seemed right to me that if you expand the district, you have to think of not just the mileage, but you also have to think of the FEE's involved. You know, how much staff do you actually need to cover that to provide what Trindy said, you're going to go by my house three times today. Yeah, you know, that's what I look at. I would venture to say there isn't a chance the town can afford to pay in order to drive by everybody's house the same amount of times. I would venture to say that, but I would suggest that if you broaden that base you also broaden the tax base, and then if you broaden the tax base, you're going to have to hire at least some of the FEE's to make that plausible. Not saying you had to have 20 policemen, because it's 100 miles versus 20 miles, but still to be responsive to those folks in East Randolph. Well, we did this exercise as one of the options and we came up with what it would cost to have a department similar to what we had, I think is what we did, and if it was to expand out and what the impact would be on the taxes, and it just, even what we did for that model wasn't the staffing that would be needed. We knew that that budget was low, extremely low for what was going to be needed, but all right, we're headed off down a rabbit hole here. So we had our conversations. We have a list of next time if they want to come. So the benchmarking exercise. Just to give you an update, we're working through this. It's been a little slower than I would like, just because we've got a few different things going on here. I did want to show you sort of what we have added. We've started to populate in some of the budget-related data and separate the tax rate. One of the things we are discovering, which is not a surprise, is there isn't any uniform way of essentially accounting for or presenting what goes into your police budget. So some of these are, you might have different parts and pieces and we'll want to verify with the town directly. So we either have Manchester, we've got their costs, they have police operating, and then all of their personnel costs are in a single bucket. So you have to go in and pick out through the categories for chief salary, administration officers, all of those pieces, and then put those numbers together. Whereas when you look at, say, a Hinesford model, that's more similar to what we're doing that it's all in one consistent sort of police account. So we'll sort out some of those nuances. Some of the ones that are highlighted are having a hard time locating village-specific data and they're where the village police department is the primary or some other district. So the Woodstock member is the one at the very bottom. We know there's roughly a 60-40 split. That's the town portion only. So I'll have to go directly to some of those folks. Collecting tax rate data, I want to do just the police tax rate, see as a percent of the overall. One of the things we're finding though is, again, that's something we break out, others break out. We have to do some additional math on those pieces to make an apples-to-apples comparison. I've added in some per capita statistics for law enforcement full-time, full-time PDs, because some folks have dispatch capacity, some have other administrative capacity, and then part-time officers. Part of the reason for the per capita one is that when you look at the employee accounts, trying to get all of the categories in a way that is a little more coherent can be tough when everybody's broken out by rank in different cases. We relied pretty heavily on some VLCT data. Some of this we have to fill out. Bristol has more than one officer, for example. But some of them we can verify. Same thing with Hinesburg. I think it's closer to five. But we've filled in what we can, done the same thing with some of the averages, and we'll fill this up. Part-time officers are in here. Again, where some of the follow-up has to go, Scott and I were talking about this. I don't really believe that Manchester, Vermont, has 16 part-time police officers. There's something in that count that we don't understand. Maybe they do. That's an unusual thing to have. We were wondering if there's some bleed-over with firefighter rosters and lower levels of certification as a way to augment, when you can see that most of the part-time officer accounts are landing in similar spots. We've tried to break out dispatchers where administrative support. I've kept some notes in here where we know that there might be some dual duties listed here. One of the STO officers is also listed as their tech officer. That's a model I've seen in a bigger town police department budget where you might have an officer assigned. You might be able to attend it who's the tech fund and does everything from radios to the mobile data units. Full-time LEOs, full-time employees. It's really bad at all of those pieces since we last looked at this. So we're building it out, but I'm going to have to go into more of a survey mode than I'd hoped, and so it's just building those individual to pick into some of the towns stuff. So we're making progress. It's just a little bogged down. We're bad at any pieces we can add in. If you're not able to get all of the towns, it would seem as though it would still give us plenty to work with. Yeah, and we'll know exactly where, if there's an issue with the data or some questions or open questions, we'll always try to keep track of those. But you do get a pretty good representative sample of when we knew we had a foundational budget. And the grand list is the number of people registered? No, grand list is the property. It's 1% of all the property value in town, so this is what the property taxes are based off of. So when we charge for police services by and large, we're charging off these numbers. And they're all from the same data set with the exception of ours. We do have a population over here. We're using that for the capital statistics and the population density. Just so you get a sense of how dense a place is, Newport City is only a couple of square miles. And right now we're broken out all just town-wide. Same thing, we'll have to do this with Swanton Woodstock, DF, and Morristown in a certain state. So the short takeaways from the data so far is we have a lot fewer people and a lot less money for what are comparable amounts of road mileage. And this doesn't put any of the crime, you know, response crime, other statistics in there. It just sort of looks at some of those, the things that we can draw apples to apples to, to the extent we can. I've tried to do both the averages in the medians, knowing that when you look at grand list data, you can see still is the one you can probably guess that jumps out at you, 24 million dollars. That would be a really nice problem to have, by the way. As opposed to four and a half. Do you have the road mileage for all of those places? Yep, we did put that over here. And I'm going to follow up with vehicle counts. Used to be able to get that out of that data set. So square miles and road miles, you get a sense of exactly how far, how big the tank is. And how many roads to get there. These are the, you know, there's Newport City. I had them a little smaller than that. But a lot of, you know, urban village type streets. And this for us is just... Smaller tank for you to make your circles. Yeah. So we're listed, these are all the local miles. So this doesn't include things like the interstate, state routes. These are all local mile counts. Right, right. But your budget is based upon, not those road miles. Your budget is based upon the 20th of miles in the district. So with that said, so that skews that number of how much is spending per road mile. Well, it's also, we're going to have to break down an extra layer for a couple of these. But we want both. If you're going to review the different models that are in there, you sort of have to know what does it look like in a whole system. And then also what does it look like in a smaller system. So the sense of, if we say we had up a spot where you want to consider something different, well, if we're talking about 48 square miles and 91 road miles, you know, we're getting into some bigger territory here. You can also see from this that the original map makers, way back in 17, whatever, tried to set them all as even squares and they may have missed. That's what I was getting at. If you're going to cover the whole town, the FTEs required, but also, as you can take what you're spending now, not that it's an economy of scale, it's not at all. You're a lot more crime in the village and obviously it's not an economy of scale. Right, right, but if you're going by road miles and you have 20 miles versus 90 miles that you're doing. You have 20 miles, you have four FTEs, so obviously you're not going to multiply that by four and then add that many FTEs in there to get there. But I think it is useful whether you're talking districts or town-wide or something in between. What we are trying to drive at is what's the right number of people because it's not three. Right, right, right. I mean, you love working all the time, but it's not three probably. I totally agree with you, so this lets us see in those different models where does everybody land and I think they're landing closer together by a large with some nuances based on what the community is. I'm just saying with the communities that cover the whole community and they're road miles say somewhat similar, 90, 100 miles or whatever it is, of course the budget is certainly going to be much larger because they are covering that much more. But you get a Winooski or a Regens, and you're not too far off population side. I don't want to say any other, and your network is compact but you might have the higher officer counts. So that's where we've got to add some of those community character factors as well. Thank you. So we're getting there. I'm about to spend time on this, but we've talked dogs. We've had to do a lot of dogs stuff. Dogs? Oh my goodness. Review data and discuss buckets. So we'll send you the August data again to make sure you've got it all posted. There are two things. This is the first, I don't know if folks want to copy this, this is the thing Judy sent around where she pulled some representative samples from the Spillman system that I think it's a trio of PDs used, TV sensing time for call type, and Scott tried to pull a similar data set and just to note sort of the differences with Valkor as we try to drill in a little bit at a time. I'm very impressed. So you can see we don't have the same sort of breakdown because with the Valkor system you can track it from dispatch to, you know, on scene later now. So it's all based on that dispatch data but it may not get on to some of the points that we've heard earlier, for communication and the after might factor into what this total would be. But it at least gives you a sense of in real time if we have a case maybe run a little bit longer you can see what types those might be more often than not at least from that representative set. We've still got to try to map some of the August data I make out of running. Are we able to hire a full-time officer based on fingerprinting yet? No. That's the thing, you don't need that. Is this over? That's the running joke. Oh, above the bet? Yeah. Well, wasn't there a huge legislative increase in nurses needing to get fingerprinted more often? Yeah. Right? Yeah. It doesn't go as to go to get it done or it doesn't flood damage to you in a second. Oh, yeah. It's interesting to see next year versus this year in Washington County, Montoya, Bury City. We picked a whole lot of that. Really? But it sounds like Trevor should have done this legislative history lesson before he made the bet. The way to do it. The valuable, valuable lesson of those. I've also learned, yeah, some valuable lessons about rows. Are you doing a lot of things here? Yeah. If we had the equipment, I bet I'd get five pals a week. You don't have the equipment? We don't have the equipment, the fingerprint. It's a money-making business. Recharge what? It's the statutory magnitude of 35 per time and we're over four times. The 3,000 was last month. We're already at two grand right now. We're broken down today. We're already up on the state ground. $35 for a fingerprint. Does Roastbury have time to do anything else? I keep her pretty busy. Yeah, okay. He's proud about that. Yeah. I know where my lines are. I know where my lines are. I know where my lines are. All right. Research, follow-up, and test for our next meeting. We've got some scheduling to do. We'll keep working through our homework projects here. We'll get you August data. We won't have September. Check your overall work calendar and see if there's any. I feel like we're creeping towards actual hard discussions about budget and who's paying what. What did you call it? Service levels, too. Service levels, yeah. Both from a menu and a level. So, I don't know. I still feel like there's stuff that some of us could be doing to help fill in some of those gaps. I might try to pull off some pieces of that benchmarking study and see if we can share them a little bit. If it's easy. Some of the stuff might just to make sure we stay on time with it. It feels like that could bog us down and then we'd miss our target. Do you think it would be helpful if we split up the tabs and call them directly with a list of questions from you? I think it's easy enough for me to send them the budget officer vehicle questions. I can do it all in one and even sort of share the work product so far and how we got it. Because it's going to be valuable to them as well. Whether everything from union negotiations to their own budgeting process to their own. Some of these folks are having similar conversations about levels of service. And so, I think we'll be able to draw them out. Some of the ones where I might need some help is that we connect with others and other entities about them. What other services are embedded or contracted for? Those types of things might be the ones if there's different community characteristics. I'm happy to help with the embedded question since I'm the one who raised it. I don't remember all the talents that we had on there but a lot of it I can just answer. I'm in a room with a lot of those people often so it would be easy for me to fill that in. Don't trust you. Trevor, when you're networking with all the others and managers, when you say they're talking about the same things we are, are you brainstorming together about different things? You don't have to share anything but I'm just wondering to put you on the spot there's got to be a lot of... I talk to people all the time about different things and I know there's a lot of creative thinking going on as far as different services on how to work together as a town. Most of it's either just following what's going on, knowing the history going back to my days at BLCT or having been involved with similar conversations there. So just keeping an eye on it, having old contacts because maybe it worked in one or more of the places so it's that. We don't want to get together to sort of discuss these things. When policing has come up in recent years it's been the push-pull of how do you staff and also how do you create, maintain, support and entity when everything about our visions of law enforcement are evolving in every facet and how do we all work through those challenges when we're probably competing for the same pool it doesn't have enough efficient in a good year in the good old days when employees were at least easier to find. Well and on that vein I want to know if we decide as a group that we want to have an embedded person that would be employed by Clara Martin Center if that's the model in the other counties I want to know from Clara Martin can they pay for it you know or are they looking for a 50-50 or you know what do they have in their budget for this? I'll tell you street outreach workers I think a 50, I have to check on this percentage but I think it's a 50-50 split with one of the organizations Well with Washington County Mental Health I can remember with Washington County between Barry and Montpelier but they just had to up it so 24 grand they just up the salary because they couldn't find anybody to take the job because it was listed at 40 I think and nobody wanted to work for 40 so now it's up at 64 and they just hired somebody actually yesterday but that is split 50-50 between the towns and then the towns pitched in a specific dollar amount and then the mental health agency kicked in the rest and that's not something that they it's it's not going to be a big surprise to Claire Martin if we say you know you need to pony up a certain percentage so there's one individual working with Montpelier and Barry that's what they've done who would we end up sharing with Bethel has said that they wanted somebody I mean if they figured it out but that is a good question about whether it was already an established one the BSP are having trouble finding somebody and it's built in parents too right so maybe it's a shared position with them could be and they got plenty of when you start doing it like that they always sense all the way around and you see it more and more around the state sharing those resources well they have big savings like crazy in their budget too just saying it's been useful with one of the ways it works for the city it's been helpful when they've I mean they have some clear protocols dispatcher to train we've talked about those pieces but it's a nice way to sort of triage what does somebody need for services and when and where do you actually need to send a law enforcement officer versus being able to steer someone into some other sort of channels and they have seen at least the anecdotal it feels like some successes with being able to create those interfaces and on the number of times an officer is required or at least initially they have a better sense of when they roll into it and that's not just Montpelier and Barriott's across the state any department that has one wishes they had to because of the cost savings we're having a lot of interactions with folks who are camping in various spots it's just to be the entry point we haven't had that to see a story of Bradford with the rest of them or something like that you wouldn't necessarily think just because of the travel patterns well Montpelier has seen a whole influx because people have heard that there are a lot of more services and more warm places to stay in Montpelier and they're coming in from Burlington yeah it's very frustrating for the police department anyway to figure out like how are we going to deal with this yeah are they realizing the transit center is something to answer that's turning into a hot spot it is okay so anyway if you want to send that call on my way I'm happy to deal with that I'll try to split those up and what can you do whatever anybody wants me to do let me see which ones make make the chance to split up I just I did think that you know it was kind of interesting when I ran these stats because I mean granted it's not Randall's duty but investigating a burglary whether you're in Norwich Hartford Randall to Burlington wherever it's going to take approximately the same length of time and averaging it out over all the calls received every single call and it averaged you know an hour and a half and you think well that's not long but then you think they get four hours you get four calls a day that's not very many but that's an eight hour shift four calls times an hour and a half that's your day and the majority of this doesn't cover the paperwork because nobody opens the case back up while they're typing the paperwork to add in more time so or those communication things that we just heard about calling for follow-up or joining and stuff like that like Kristen was at her name said she may only talk to the chief for 10 minutes but how much stuff he'd already done before he called her and how much did he do afterwards yeah you can't make a timeline on it and also there's the part if they catch whoever the perpetrator is and they end up in court most of the time they spend sitting in the courthouse and if they don't know that that takes some time I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't need that budget line I don't need the officer to go over I really have no communications in correspondence nothing new to report we've heard nothing from the public no but I think once you get closer to the media stuff you're talking about anything to tick them off yeah well it's talking about the water then shall we it's something going on about the water that's not this committee I wish I had a motion to adjourn the meeting I wish I had a motion to adjourn the meeting all those in favor alright