 Let's seal the breakfast and plough CV Africa, welcome. And we head straight to our second conversation. We look at the issue of zoning and who should become president of Nigeria come 2023. Now I'm with President Muhammad Abu-Hari, serving out his second term in 2023. There's been a barrage of question on the yardstick that should be used in picking his success or while some are clamoring for orders, for religious balance, orders ensuring that you have a Christian or Muslim. A good number of people are also pursuing for youth as president in the midst of all of this. There's also a growing support for the selection of Nigeria's next president to come from the south, north, west, east. And so joining us this morning is a political scientist. All things being equal, we have Dr. Mark Fallon join us. But we do have Austin Jesar on standby. It's good to have you join us this morning. Good morning, Austin. Thank you for having me, good morning to you. Okay, so let's talk about this. Morning to you, thank you. All right, thank you so much. So let's get straight to this conversation. The issue of zoning and the issue of competence is a strong one. As much as a lot of persons have argued that zoning would not allow for, it would disenfranchise or would just not allow a lot of Nigerians to aspire to become president. And so it disqualifies them or does not allow them that space. And some people say this is not a democratic practice. But you want to agree with me that zoning has been going on for a very long time in this country. And so it gets to this particular point now. The question is still ongoing, whether I should go to the south or to the north or to the southwest or the south is your thoughts. Do you think that zoning is the solution? We should choose that as against competence? Well, I would say we should choose zoning against competence. I mean, that would be very unreasonable, a thing to say. But I would say that we should choose competence in zoning. That is to say that there is no zone in Nigeria that cannot produce competent people, just so that there can be a great balance of power and the development can also spread across the nation properly. You find that there is dominance in the whole equation. So even though zoning is not a constitutional discussion in terms of being impeded in our constitution, we know that zoning, like you said, has been going on as gentlemen's agreement in the past. And we think that it's a good thing if there will be respect for that agreement. That silence on written agreement comes so that there won't be too much rank or an acrimony so that there will be great spread and balance of power so that it can be as rotational as possible. But in zoning, let there be competence, not just that because we said it should be zoned to zone A or B, just go bring it just about anybody and say, come be our president. The office of the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria is a very serious job, especially in these times when we are at our all-time lowest point in the history of Nigeria. So we want to talk about competence in zoning, not just zoning over competence. I get all that you've said, Austin, competence in zoning and not just an alternative zoning. But when do we as a country get to the point where it's not about whether you're an evil man or whether you are a Yoruba man, a houseman or from the South South or even the North Central, what will it be about someone who has the interest of the nation, someone who has the pedigree, someone who just wants to see the nation develop, the nation grow. Can we ever, do you think we can ever come to that point when it will be about let the best man grow? Well, I think that that's a discussion for the future. But at this time, we do know that we are not at that mature speed yet. There's a whole lot of religious, a whole lot of tribal, a whole lot of ethnic sentiments going on. So we allow this to continue. Nigeria is going to be worse for it. I mean, all the service chiefs, for instance, are not possibly come from one section of the country. It is not because you empower and every sensitive officer that is going to be appointed will have to come from your own ethnic background. That is not the kind of country we want to run. So until we get to the point where we are mature enough to say, look, as a president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, you are not from one particular zone of the country. You are, as you were, a product of every part of Nigeria. Every part owns you. You are a public property as it were. And therefore, you should give equal representation and equal leadership and equal opportunities to every part of this country, including Nigeria's and the diaspora, because you represent us all and not where you come from necessarily. But at this point, I am afraid we are not at that maturity stage yet. So you understand that this issue of zoning does not happen out of the space. It has to happen. We're talking about political parties here. So in the case where you have a political party, different political parties as it were, but of course we know we have two dominant parties. That's what it looks like. And that's what it is by the records that we have. So but do you think that this political parties also should be having this conversation as regards zoning? Because for instance, now let's take for an example the elections, the convention that just finished. And we see the national chairman of the APC that emerged as an agreement. Of course, the consensus agreement. So in situations like this, do you still have zoning and competence working hand in hand? How do you achieve that? Austin? I mean, politics is about discussions. Politics is about negotiation. Can you hear me? Loud and clear. Can you hear me? We can hear you loud and clear. Go ahead. So I was saying that politics is about negotiations. Politics is about the round table and having an agreement and having some kind of referendum, some kind of point of meeting. In other words, they will just continue to be run for. I mean, look at how long the two APC, for instance, to get done with this convention. There's all manners of being turned up, issues in all the major two parties of the country. And that's because they're not talking and they are not able to come to agreement. But if there is a gentleman's agreement to say, look, these are the cards on the table. And these are how we're going to deal them to everybody to make sure that as much as possible we get close to representing everybody's interest as we can. And then the country can move forward. I mean, there can be progress or development in the face of radical, in the face of anarchy. So the first thing we want to do is to make sure that there is peace, there's understanding, there is calm in the quality. And then we can begin to think and put the round pegs in the round hole. But the country right now does not have that proper balance and spread of power. And that's the agitation. We are saying that there is no, even the minorities can have a very competent person. Nigerians are very intelligent and highly resourceful people. So actually we can find competent people just about everywhere. But we are saying that these discussions should be sincere so that every zone, every aspect of the country can be carried along in the discussion of national progress and development. All right, good thing you've talked about peace. Good thing you've talked about understanding. You've talked about agreement, politics being about agreement. But how far do you go about agreements or within agreements? Let me paint a scenario here. Right now, for instance, there's a talk of a zoning with the People's Democratic Party. Let's say, for instance, there's an agreement that it should be zones to the Southeast geopolitical zone. Don't you think other issues might come out? Should it be from Emo State? Shouldn't it be from Mabia State or from Enugo State or from a number of states? Just how far can you go with these agreements? I mean, it's a continuous process, isn't it? The major thing is what we call the macro zoning, if you like. And then within the Southeast for instance, they can now begin to say, look, let us also microphone these further. Let it not be Enugo State. Let it be Emo State. Let it not be Emo State. Let it be Agia State. That's their culture. OK, I was saying, are you still with us? That's not what Nigeria's are interested in. But what we're saying is, if the South is having given a slot, let them produce someone for us, let them produce. Hello? Are you still there? Yeah, we can hear you. Go ahead. So because I'm thinking that it's a very valid point. So it's a very valid point that you have raised. I mean, it sounds very brilliant if you ask me that we can achieve zoning and competence at the same time. Because you say that you do not believe in just zoning. I mean, you will never choose zoning over competence. Competence any day is what we're talking about. But I think that it's almost impossible to achieve that in a system where you understand that even at the political system or at the political party level, you would always have interest. I mean, within the party level, at the party structure, you have people who have interest. And sometimes the interest is not necessarily the interest of some of these persons at the party level does not necessarily reflect the interest of the nation or even the interest of the party. At the end of the day, so is the interest of the individual or those who call the shots at the party level. So I think that it might just be almost impossible to achieve competence and zoning at the same time, not because we don't have brilliant people or intelligent persons in different parts of the country. But because you have a system where all of this has to happen within the political party and you have a party structure. And because of the way the party is structured in Nigeria where you still have some governors, you still have people calling the shots of these political parties. And so there's no democracy at the party level. So all of this cannot even, I don't see this happening. Anyway. Well, that is the irony of the Nigerian political spectrum. I have been involved in election before as a person and I know that in all the militia and modesty, I was more competent than the gentleman who eventually emerged. And the same discussion of party supremacy played out. So I would agree, while I agree with you that it is difficult. The world is difficult and not impossible. It is difficult to get absolute competence in whether it's zoning or not zoning in Nigeria system of politics. But we will get there. I believe that we'll get there. We'll continue to have this discussion. We'll continue to drive it home and portray that even if the party wants to impose a candidate on us, let it be someone who is fairly credible and competent to do the job, for instance. I mean, look at what is happening in Anambra state. Who think that Abga pretty much imposed soludo on the people of Abga in Anambra state. A soludo, in my opinion, is a competent fellow. So that's something we can take with two hands open. So if we have party supremacy bringing candidates of competence, then we can live with that. But if we have party, in the name of supremacy, passing down people down our throat who we know are not competent and not resourceful, don't have any business of providing those loxies of it. We'll continue to resist. We'll continue to have this discussion. And we'll continue to cry out on tea. We can write as a nation. All right. Thank you so much, Austin, AGSF, for your comments there. Indeed, we need to try to strike a balance between zoning and competence as we head to the polls in 2023. We do appreciate your time on the show this morning. Very many thanks for having me in. All right. That's the size of the show for today. We must say very big thank you to all of our guests who have joined and to contribute to all of the comment as we move towards a credible elections in 2023. My name is Justin Acadone. And if you missed out on any part of the conversation, just follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram and do subscribe to our YouTube channel as a plus CV Africa and plus CV Africa lifestyle. I am Messi Boko. Thanks for watching.