 What up peeps welcome back to the anxious truth. This is episode number 174 Recorded September 2021. I'm Drew lincellata creator and host of this well What I hope is a fine program welcome back to the show Thank you for your support every week your time your attention speaking of support by the way very quick program note This support for the podcast listener numbers are going through the roof the last couple of months So I don't know what you guys are doing but keep doing it and thank you very much So for those of you that come back every week and you listen and you're writing reviews and you're rating the podcast and the different platforms I Don't know what it is, but it's getting out of control in the best possible way and I appreciate all of you Thank you very very much for the support. So That being said this week our topic is important. It's an important recovery topic You may be thinking that you have no power in this process, right? It is out of your control your anxiety your trauma your pain These are monsters that are external to you they stalk you and you're just trying to find a way to keep them at bay But in reality you do have power in this process So in this episode I'm joined by my friend and frequent collaborator dr. Bridget Cooper dr. B is here again She is expert in this topic and an excellent collaborator when it comes to this sort of thing We are going to talk about gaining an awareness of the fact that you have choice in this process You have power in this process you have influence in this process and you have responsibility in this process And those are all really good things you want that so if you're feeling powerless over your anxiety And you need to understand that you are not powerless and you need to start to become aware of the choice that you have The power the influence you have the responsibility you have then this is the episode for you It's a really good conversation about 20 25 minutes. You guys are gonna dig it. I know you will I know you're gonna dig dr. B guys always seem to like when she's on the show So let's get to it at the end of the interview. I will come back and wrap it up I will give you all dr. B's links if you want to go and check her out which you should because she's awesome So here we go and I will see you guys at the end as always Dr. B. Oh Mg, it's DL Drew Drew Linslata wait I don't even know if I'm worthy to be on this call now because how you are just like hovering over all other audio Kindle books whatever everything in the book genre is like bowing beneath you and you're amazing Oh my god I picked a number out of a hat seven percent slower and now look at me just shine Just saying it was a crazy In like 2008 and here it is so The people listening would be like wow, she's very flattering and I'm thinking she's being a little sarcastic, isn't she like she's ribbing me Only because I know that drew hates to be flat That was all sport for me really difficult and all torment for him. I hope you enjoyed yourself. Yeah, that was really difficult You know any who the reason why I invited dr. B to come on today is because today's podcast is about how? responsibility equals power in the recovery process and As dr. B is very fond of saying good you say it's your line I mean, I think it sounds so good rolling off your lips But I'm gonna do it and I'll just listen to you repeat it throughout the podcast because then you know I'll feel really flattered myself since I don't have the high-ranking book Flex that you've got but anyway It's awareness equals choice and choice equals power very good and it's it is outstanding that philosophy is really great Now you've applied it in maybe slightly different areas like You know dealing with pain and trauma recovery and that sort of stuff and just kind of general life transformation I mean, that's really good advice for pretty much everybody in almost all aspects of life Yeah, pretty much everybody because you know, and it's a it's an easy train to understand because When you are aware of what you and other people are doing what you and other people need what it's happening in the world You can then have more choices as to how to respond or react or intervene Engage in some way and that in in and of itself gives you more personal power So it's an easy train to to see to notice and then to implement I think where people begin to fall down on this is the first part So for you it's awareness, right? But and so I was starting my premise with like responsibility equals power taking Responsibility for for the situation that you're in not to say that neither and I'll speak for you on this one I think I can neither doctor B or I are implying that it's it's your fault the situation Right. So if you're in the grips of an anxiety disorder, it's not your fault in any way So awareness of your of your role in it or taking responsibility for your role doesn't mean it was your fault You didn't do something wrong, right? That's so so so important to say But being aware of the fact that you do have a role and you do have responsibility here So you're you're got the precursor the awareness. That's a hard sell for a lot of people, isn't it? You ever find resistance there? I guess I guess so because I think Most of us are going through our lives unconscious to either parts or complete Areas or the totality of ourselves, right? We're just we're surviving every moment And I know for the people that you work with Becoming aware is actually sometimes the enemy because you're hyper aware of everything that's happening every breath heartbeat Whatever it is, right? You're hyper aware So trying to tune into awareness for a lot of people is not just a tough sell, but it's a it's a it's a heavy lift and Knowing how to become aware and what to become aware of doesn't mean Staying in awareness, and I think that's what a lot of people who are struggling with anxiety End up doing is they get stuck in the awareness step Yeah, so they're sitting in this hyper vigilant awareness of every little thing in there and other people's Surroundings instead of moving into that choice Heart that responsibility part that you're talking about which is moving from that. I can see I have a problem I can see I'm panicked. I can see all these things and where it comes from I've analyzed my life inside now now What do I do with it? Which is what so much of of your stuff your prescriptive things are about are taking action on that? Awareness I would say that it applies the same thing with what hole true in the area that usually work in You know where people are dealing with trauma recovery and and pain and that sort of stuff and trying to overcome those things Are you keenly aware of your past keenly aware of the damage keenly aware of the abuse right keenly aware of all those So what are we trying to be aware of? So I'm gonna I'm just gonna tee up a purchase of your book like right here like so everybody get on the Amazon right now Because here it is all right the awareness that I preach and the awareness that you're preaching is actually about creating pauses between moments It's about saying it's about slowing your role the hell down So you can actually make a choice about the next thing you're going to entertain as a thought or the next behavior You're going to employ is actually slowing down enough Create that gap so that you can make a choice because most of the time We don't feel like we have a choice in how we're responding I saw it, you know in the stuff that you talk about about you're like this You know this lizard brain right and running running running We're all stuck in those same kind of grooves until we're not Yes, so in order to get that choice we have to create a gap Between the awareness of what we've been thinking about and where we're going to find the choice as to what we're going to take Responsibility over to do differently next time or in this moment I'm different right so the awareness in that situation is an awareness that I can do that So yeah, and many people will say and I'm sure many people in your sphere, too Like they're just so racked with with guilt or resentment or anger or pain or Vulnerability or whatever it happens to be now my crowd might be a little bit different They're racked with their symptoms and the intrusive thoughts and all of those things But you can actually put a pause between the thought or the emotion and the action that comes after that And that's where the awareness comes in I can put in a pause and then I can decide what to do next as opposed to Automatically saying my lizard brain made me do this or the narcissist in my life that had me for ten years Is making me do this same thing? Yeah, right? Yeah is taking that responsibility and saying my How I got here might not be my fault, but how I get out I get to take power over that I get to be responsible for that. Yeah, and that's that shift You know, I get a lot of people who are very you know We're talking about trauma recovery or just even if it's not what they're thinking of as trauma But bad relationships about boss, you know crappy co-workers, whatever it is They're coming to me and they want to tell me the story over and over and over again About why they got here because they're looking for validation. Yeah after I've fed that validation monster enough That's time to say, okay. Yeah, I get it. I get how you got here I get all the terrible people and circumstances and issues that have brought you to this moment But they aren't going to bring you out and they aren't holding you here The only person holding you here and the only person therefore who can get you out is you. Yeah And I think that's where your responsibility piece comes in and where my choice piece comes in Because it both it leads to that power and putting you back in power because for so many of your people too Who have been through trauma who have or in it right now, right in bad Circumstances relationships are in the trauma of anxiety and the grips of it itself It feels scary to think that they actually have power because they feel like Something else has been in power all this time. Yeah, or something else put me here be it Whatever element of there may be abusive or traumatic past or the anxiety which people will talk about like it's its own sentient monster That's talking them Which I get I totally get that Right, so it feels like well all this stuff put me here and it's completely out of my control So therefore I cannot possibly have any control with getting out of it I have to hope that it somehow changes or somehow my past goes away or somehow fades or something So I get that and you know one of the more interesting and powerful statements I've ever heard and I want to say it was a clear week statement And I've had people repeat it back to me over and over was the statement that says well the how I got here Is it wasn't necessarily my fault, but the one thing that is keeping me stuck here is me Yeah, yeah, which is a really I mean look out of context if somebody just like took that clip They would probably look come after us with picture works and torches because it sounds like victim blaming in some way shape or form But it's really not it's you know, the only thing keep the most heroic thing you can say Because it actually yourself the power. Yeah, yes, because it actually puts the power back With you. Yes, because if if the anxiety as that monster chasing you down or your trauma history monster chasing you down That gives that experience or that condition the power over everything past present future, right? That's That's troubling Right because then that that's actually just it means that you're never going to get out of the way of this Oncoming train because it just keeps coming. Yes, whereas if you say Something brought you here, but you get to bring yourself out then all of a sudden you're in charge of something Yeah, like you get to change that and that's such a it sounds like you know Oh, maybe there's fear that somebody's gonna come after me the pitchfork for saying that but to me I That's the most beautiful statement someone could make to me because it says it doesn't matter Any more what happened back there? I mean it matters in the sense of I want to validate you and your experience and your trauma But it isn't here anymore. The only person holding it here. Yeah, is me or is you? Yes, right like I get to make the decision you get to make the decision to say No more and you know, I have colorful language, so I won't use it here But I'll I'll abbreviate, you know when people have asked me You know, how did you get out of the way of all of the things that happen to you? Like, you know, your father doing this to your mom, whatever all these people and You know, how did you not let that become the narrative of the rest of your life? And I said F that yeah, yeah In all it's vernacular in all of its power because why would I? to allow that to continue is To hand my life over to someone or something that doesn't have the grace or the responsibility or the The love to hold that yeah, like I don't give that to them So I think there's there's I hope with your population. I know with the powerful way that you speak to them It's an act of rebellion. Yes. Take back Your power and to move forward. We talked about that So every Friday I do the recovery room on Instagram with some of my friends and collaborators And we talked about that a couple weeks ago that while in some of the ways that I talked about You know becoming non-reactive toward anxiety and panic may look very passive for me personally that was a tremendous act of defiance It's still so, you know, it might look like I'm just limping a chair letting myself panic But it is the opposite of being I like to use the term being dragged So I'll say all the time like well Do you want to continue to let this thing drag you up and down the block where you have no choice? And you were just being dragged or do you want to recognize that well? I can do something different and something different might be literally to say I have a choice to allow the panic to come I The analog I have a choice to allow that memory to come in your world Right, right, and I will let it come and get me and I will do my best to process it rather than letting it Grab me and drag me into whatever it wants with me. I get to participate in this process actively now It doesn't mean that you have the ultimate positive outcome the first time you decide to do that It's a work in progress and it changes right I mean the ultimate wouldn't it be great like first time like what I mean, this isn't like Instagram true This is thank you. It's like right You might put this on Instagram, but this is not like a snapchat filter life is hard There's there's some ugly grueling messy moments And you try to sell people on it's you know It's one of those 4 a.m. Infomercials where all of a sudden all their cellulites gonna go their wrinkles are gonna disappear And you know whatever, you know get a million dollars in their bank account by tomorrow morning at 7 yeah It's not gonna happen. It's it's the only way out is through Oh, yeah, you got to go through those tough moments in order to get to the place where it's not Always difficult. It's funny. I know a guy that has a podcast that made shirts That say the only way out is through and like the only way out is through. Yeah, but he said in Latin He's really cool dude. Anyway Wow Is now To just be like hey guess what go to my website and go pick my only way out is through shirts up for you know Not my damn website. I'm the worst, but anyway, I think it's important to recognize that and what dr. B is saying is right It's messy. It's nasty. It's ugly. It's muddy. It's dirty. It's dusty. It's all of those things It's up. It's down to get knocked on your ear and you got to get back up again all of those things This is not the final scene of a Drew Barrymore movie where they all you know They get out the tears and then they're dancing in the kitchen and that's the end scene like it doesn't happen that way So I think that's where a lot of people get put back a little bit like or they get disappointed They have the epiphany that like oh, I'm I'm the only one in an anxiety disorder like wow I have an active role in my own recovery here. I can make choices. I can participate. I have power Okay, I'm all good because now I know that no not really Now you got to do it and it's it's really really difficult work But the awareness that first the awareness to go back to it that you have a choice and you have agency in that and you can exert some influence Leads to you know awareness equals choice. You can choose to do things differently and choice is power So for me, it's responsibility equals power and it does it does and so it does You know that in order for them how we blend this is that in order for them anybody to take responsibility They have to become aware. Yes of the responsibility itself, right and of the tools That you offer that others have offered in their recovery to be able to go on that recovery journey, right? So there's a there's an awareness of those resources and awareness of their agency in it in order to take it and Actually do anything with it and it's okay. You can shorten it It's fine You can take your role of responsibility equals power and just know that it came from me and awareness equals choice There's always been asterisk stolen unabashedly from Bridget Cooper But I think you know, it's so funny because the and it does What I find interesting is when you embrace this, you know awareness responsibility choice power It still looks the same Like on the path that you take and the action, you know, the situation does not change It looks exactly the same so a lot of people I think they get a little freaked out by that But like, okay, great. I have power of responsibility I'm gonna be responsible for my own recovery and they think somehow it means it will look differently It doesn't know my experience is that you just experience it and process it differently You begin to learn from the suffering as opposed to being dragged down and just perpetuating the suffering Correct. Yeah, the events are the same but your relationship to the events changes and that's everything. Yes So, you know, going going to a crazy house, you know, when I ask people I'm like, hey, so Tell me the most stressful thing you could do in any given year and they're like go home for the holidays You know, like walk back into the you know, the Hellstorm that is there, you know, their family, you know of origin and Yeah, we go back right we go we go and we do this thing The difference in recovery of becoming aware and becoming aware of our choices and taking responsibility for our Heart in any of that dance or dynamic is to be able to enter that same space that same Crazy environment, you know, mashed potatoes being flung willy-nilly, you know, whatever that is, you know Crazy uncle, you know throwing back a few too many, you know All of those things is being able to be in that environment and not relate to it in the same way that you did before Not being hysterical or yelling or crying or hiding but being Aware and being able to make different choices about how you interact in that same environment So that's just how change looks is that once you have different tools once you have more awareness once you recognize your power You can be in the same Hectic chaotic environment that you were in before and have an entirely different experience of it Yeah, it's really very internalized because it then becomes like you said how you experience it how you process it How you relate to it it makes all the difference And there's a certain amount of there's passive versus active there like now I'm an active participant in this crazy house of thanksgiving in my dysfunctional family Or I'm now an active participant in this panic attack or in these intrusive thoughts Or in in these scary thoughts that plague me all day long. I'm now actively participating in this Choosing how I relate to them. How will I respond to them? How will I interact with them? Very different. Yeah, very. Yeah, and I think I think in that recovery process. It's important to notice Notice the difference, you know So when you're doing these things when you're all of a sudden taking responsibility and you're taking active role and you're In your anxiety recovery, you're doing these things differently is to notice Wow, this does feel different than it felt before. I may not be better yet I may not not be having this panic attack. I may not you know, I may not be where I want to be eventually But I'm actually feeling differently in this moment than I felt in similar moments before And simply noticing that is a way of being able to record progress and build on that progress Because that that noticing is really important what I notice with a lot of people that I work with and and we have a lot of crossover a lot of people who have you know, anxiety disorders and What they often will do is if I'm not a hundred percent there, I'm not there at all You know that cognitive distortion So Yeah, so it's about when you notice that you've made progress that this does look different to challenge that cognitive distortion of because I'm not all the way there I haven't even begun the journey Noticing where you are along the points of the journey allows you to recognize progress not perfection yet Yeah, progress not perfection is a big catchphrase and it's but it should be because it's it's valid We in my community we tend to talk about not so much that you will start to feel different the feel different comes later The feel different for my people. It's a it's a happy side effect, if you will But when you start to learn and you have to two podcast episodes ago I said are you refusing to learn the lessons of recovery when it hands them to you? So when you go into that same chaotic Thanksgiving dinner that you really don't want to go to with your dysfunctional family Or you turn and confront and allow your intrusive thoughts or allow your anxiety symptoms or your panic You there are lessons to be had when you engage actively now and use your power But you have to be willing to and to take those lessons and that is oh, I did something I made a choice. I acted differently and look it didn't take me down I've always been afraid. I'm still here. I'm still here. I still what can I learn from what just happened here What can I learn from this last trip home with crazy drunk uncle? So But if you're not it's it's important to understand the awareness and make your choice and take your Responsibility and then exercise your power But then you have to take the lesson that that that new experience gives you because if you just repeat like it was terrible It was horrible. I felt awful. It was terrifying. My heart was pounding. I was short of breath I thought I was going to pass out. I kept thinking I wanted to kill my dog Or These people are horrible. My family is full of raging narcissists. They're so abusive. This is terrible that you didn't learn the lesson So you're wasting your power. I think Right because you didn't collect that lesson and and have it inform a future behavior experience So in in surviving a panic moment, right being able to know that you didn't die or you didn't kill your dog Or you didn't do those things it's to Come to the end of that moment and say, okay, so What did I see? What did I notice? What is true now? What was true then? Yes, that I didn't think was true before You know, so I I had all these assumptions. I was and I talk a lot about narrating So one of the most powerful tools is how we tell the story So you and I could go to the exact same event Have you know the exact same dinner have the same service has have everything and we could leave And you and I could go independent of one another to a to a mutual friend and tell them about our experience And they would think we were not even together in the same room right Which is very right. Exactly. That's so important happens all the time telling the story So forget seven percent slower in the anxious truth that that book which if you listen to podcasts You should own chapter three change your reaction after is the storytelling So, you know for us, it's always changed the reaction before that's how you deal with anticipatory anxiety The reaction during how you interacting while you're in the midst of the exposure or the panic and after the reaction after is the storytelling So, you know narration is a big deal. I always try and tell people stop narrating the fear and start narrating the lesson and the win Not because you'll magically have this brand new mindset and everything will be hunky dory But you have to narrate the reality of it and accept the reality. This was really uncomfortable I hate being around those people or I hate having panic attacks But again, it didn't hurt. It didn't kill me. It didn't take me down That's the very and it's very hard to to Believe something different or experience something differently if you keep telling the same story You have always told that landed you in that place to begin with exactly and you and I've had this conversation that we would rather be right and be happy And so we we seek Consistency. Yeah, so it's okay So I I have such compassion for your listeners and your readers that are in mind that are Stuck in a story because it feels safe to at least know what's coming at least know what you know What the end point is going to be But it keeps being the end point because you keep telling the story the same way If you shifted some part of your story if you noticed something different about your story this time Everything else could change because you would be right About this new observation So you could continue to be right and be happy in a new way versus holding the same old story and being right Because you just keep telling the story consistently and not be happy at all. That's interesting I'd rather be right than happy does apply in a lot of instances because Giving up the narration of that was terrible. That was terrible. That was terrible When you tell people give up that narration and instead recognize the reality that you're still standing Sometimes it feels invalidating to them. I think yeah No, no, no, I'm not trying to invalidate your experience But as part of the new narration is acknowledging and validating the experience that really sucked That was really hard. That was really scary. That was really uncomfortable. But I did it So okay, but I and I want to I want to change the word but I did it and I did and there you go That's even and I think one thing I think one of the things that we tend to to discount is the ability to hold two realities that seem to be in opposition Obviously Why we're not doing these on a regular basis more than one thing to be true at the same time I don't even know but but but the point of it is that in order to hold that That forward momentum We have to and be able to tell that story in your step three that that tell that story In a different way is not to invalidate the initial experience It's to add color flavor layer and complexity to the original story Which is I can feel completely out of control, you know under fire Freaked out scared and powerful at the same time I can have both of those things at the same time I can hold both truths and so many of us are under the solution that we can only hold one or the other And in that in in doing so we negate half of our experience Yeah One of the the statements is very simple statements that Kind of started my ball rolling years ago was you can be Afraid and save at the same time It was one of the original probably one of my earliest posts on social media was that and it was Wait, what wait? What like how can that be afraid means unsafe, right? Well, sometimes it does but Oftentimes it doesn't just as one example of two things that can be true at the same time. So there you go There it is. All right So there you go. So become aware of the of you know the situation different awareness not awareness of how horrible it is But awareness of the fact that you have agency And then then make different choices and then you become responsible for those choices And then you have power and then you can start to make change So yes, and you can live a better more abundant life because that's all that drew and I want for you Yeah, in the end it does it might be slow and it might be incremental and it might be painfully like You might be really frustrated sometimes, but it does lead to good places So accept your responsibility for your ability to change your situation because you have it no matter what anybody tells you you do You absolutely do. Yeah, bravo. Good job. Dr. B Thank you for coming as always if people were going to read One of your books to start which one do you think they should read? From my population, you know little landslides and pain rebel Yeah, little landslides and pain rebel are kind of like a duo little landslides if you have a stomach or a hunger for reading You know narrative because it's a it's my life story So if you like biography autobiography stuff, that's a it's a it's a sucker punch, you know, right to the throat It's it's a good it's a good story And I think it demonstrates that you can see some pretty dark and and windy Places and still emerge light and strong And then pain rebel is really more instructive about being able to because I think a lot of your listeners They have two kind of things going on Simultaneously, which is they have the anxiety disorder, which is like this present right in their face problems But then all of the stuff that's underneath that and got them to that place or is reinforcing that place or preventing them from going Any place with it is some of their their pain history? Yeah, and so pain rebel is that accompaniment that helps you Manage and and challenge that in very practical tactical ways To be able to alleviate some of those symptoms that I think When working in pair with with some of the things you're doing is a is a beautiful recovery story One day we should probably take 15 minutes and bundle those two books together. So I would tell you look, you know come to my website. This is episode 174 I believe so if you go to the anxious treat.com slash 174, I'll have all dr. B's links over there When you read pain rebel after you read little landslides it makes because I read little landslides first and pain rebel It comes from such a position of authority. I'm like, whoa This person actually walked this walk. They didn't are just writing the theory of how to handle pain and overcome it They they did it But the combination of I think pain rebel and the anxious treat the perfect companion books We should bundle them somehow. We'll figure that out. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, thanks for coming B. It's always good Thanks. We have to be good more often. All right guys. Go visit dr. B Go to my website the anxious treat.com slash 174 and go to dr. B's links and follow her and tell her saying hi Peace out peace out Alrighty then we are back in the studio and that just means standing at the exact same desk that I was at Yesterday when I was talking to dr. B. So do not be fooled by my ridiculousness. I hope you guys enjoyed that interview I certainly enjoyed having the conversation dr. B and I have so much overlap We really do overlap a lot and the things that we write about and the things that we say So you guys should totally check her out if you go to my website The show notes for this episode are at the anxious truth.com slash 174 I will have the full show notes for this episode I will have links to dr. B's website and facebook and instagram and and her books Little landslides and pain rebel if you guys want to check her check that out I urge you to at least follow her on social media because she's just a kind soul and a good helper So there you go. That wraps up episode number 174 Hope you enjoyed it. Thank you for coming back as always I will leave you with afterglow by my friend and an amazing musician ben drake Also a guy with a heart of gold by the way So if you like afterglow you like hearing it all the time in all these podcasts episodes Go check out ben at ben drake music dot com And if you are listening to the podcast on itunes or spotify or someplace that lets you rate and review it Leave us a five star rating if you dig it and then take another minute Maybe write a little paragraph over review because when you do that it helps other people find the podcast that may benefit from it And really that's why I do all of this stuff trying to help as many people as I can All right guys, thanks for coming by for this episode. I will see you next week. Thank you for your support as always Go check out seven percent slower by the way That book is getting rave reviews seven percent slower.com. All right. That's my plug for the week I will see you guys next week. Remember This is the way You