 Back to Talk Story with John Wahee. We got another interesting show for you all today and my guest is Senator Gary Hoosier. Gary was a member, a former member of the State of Hawaii Senate. He is currently the board president of the Hawaii Alliance for Progressive Action. And what makes Gary interesting is that he has been able to coalesce the voices of a number of progressive groups in Hawaii and make sure that their presence is felt in our legislature. So welcome Gary. We appreciate you joining us and here I am sitting down in the middle of urban Oahu and you are enjoying the beautiful island of Kauai. I am and my dog is barking in the background. If he keeps barking I'll get up and tell him to quiet down. That definitely demonstrates that you are in fact on Kauai. Can you hear the chickens? Yeah, that too. Anyway, let's get started. Tell us a little bit about HAPA, what it is, what it does and the rest of it. Well, the HAPA is a Hawaii Alliance for Progressive Action and the name basically says it all. It's a statewide organization of 501c3 non-profits but it's an alliance. We realize to get things done we need to bring people together so that's what we're doing. We're working with various organizations around the state and we're unabashedly progressive. We believe in economic justice, environmental justice, social justice and we believe in action. So you're not one of these people who sit around thinking about what we can do and there's far too much talking, not enough action. So we've about three years old now and we're engaged issues real quickly on four ways. One is the legislature and we're going to talk about that in a little bit. The other is political through the election process even though we're non-partisan and third would be judicial. Our organization takes people to court, entities to court I should say and also direct action, community action on the ground. You started off as an alliance and which is kind of interesting because the word hapa means not just one but you know half-half many things. Tell me who are the members of your alliance? Well the board of directors is statewide. We have people representing people like Walter Ritty, you know a historical figure representing Hawaiian issues. We have Paul Echitoff, the former managing director of Earth Justice, Kim Koko Iwamoto. Our board goes around the state and around different progressive issues. This year I think is a good example. We're going to talk about the water issue in a second and it's a coalition really, the Sierra Club, Maui Tomorrow, various groups. So all the groups who are interested in supporting progressive issues can find their way to your umbrella. Is that basically how hapa works? Well hapa is a separate organization but the work we do is normally collaborative with other organizations. Okay so you were describing there are four different approaches that you take regarding political action or legislative action and the first I guess would be that you, well why don't you go down the list again? You know I don't want to put words in your mouth. Well the first one the one we're immersed in at this moment is the legislature. That's policy. We impact or interact with both county level policy but right now in the middle of the legislative session we're working on progressive legislative issues. Like what? Things like the minimum wage. Oh great. Tell me about the minimum. So what are you advocating for? I mean I've heard people talk about raising the minimum wage for everywhere from you know $13 to $15 to $17 and it seems to be you know everybody has their favorite number but as far as I know outside of everybody's somehow giving lip service to it we haven't yet passed it have we? No we haven't. There are two bills, a house and a Senate bill they're both just going into conference right now. I'm part, HAPPA is part of a coalition called Raise Up Hawaii. Raise Up Hawaii. Appleseed is a big part of that as well as other groups, labor groups, young progressives demanding action. We've settled on $17 as the target for a couple of reasons if I could. The state itself has determined that $17 an hour is a subsistence wage for a single person without a child. So why if the states determined that why are they still people who are advocating less? Well not at all. That's a good question. The state legislators in the house and the Senate overwhelmingly have said publicly and in writing that they support a living wage but as you know when the crunch comes when it gets down to voting on bills people sometimes change their thought. The chamber commerce is adamant they don't support any wage increase at all but I'm hopeful you know I really am hopeful that at least $15 an hour will come out of this session. What does the Democratic party which a lot of your members to the extent that they belong to any political party at all seem to be members of? What was the position of the Democratic party? I'm very happy to say that the Democratic party and I am vice chair of the party. I'm not speaking on behalf obviously of the party right now but the party has come out strong in support of the living wage. What's that? I said nobody really speaks for Democrats either as Will Rogers said you know we're not exactly an organized party. Tell me so what did they pass in terms of their platform regarding the minimum wage? Well the platform the minimum wage and the living wage is one of the top priorities I'm really happy with that and not only has the party put in writing in terms of a resolution but the party has been actively lobbying. The chair Kaley Ilopez has been down at the capital and so the the party has been more active I think this year than it has in the past year. And you're hopeful that at least $15 an hour what's the current minimum wage? It's ten dollars and ten cents. What is it? Ten ten ten. Wow. Ten dollars and ten cents an hour. And that must that's been around for at least what gotta be over a decade. Oh it's actually only been a couple of years. Really? And that that's one of the challenges is it has to be raised incrementally so it's difficult to go from ten ten to seventeen in one year it's not not a good thing for the economy so to avoid negative economic you need to phase it in. Okay all right so what's the next issue? The next issue uh well there's a bunch of them but on the priority list uh legalization of uh cannabis for adult use responsible adult use. You know we just we just uh celebrated the day before christ uh east at his past weekend was April 20th. 420 yes. And my understanding is that uh somehow that's uh that's become a cannabis holiday. Yeah and I I should know why uh. Well I don't know why uh that's why uh they they tell they said that that actually that 420 as a day for uh for cannabis celebrations was because the uh student at the universities and so forth at in um in California would uh that was their signal that they would all meet at 420 in the afternoon after classes uh to recreate you know. You know I was hopeful I mean you know in all seriousness the uh recreational use by responsible adults should be legal in my opinion it's it's it's crazy that this war on drugs has included marijuana for so many years that uh people have been incarcerated their reputations and lives ruined for possessions of small amounts and 11 other states at least have already legalized it. You know I I um I had an opportunity to have lunch with the governor of the state of Washington and we we discussed this issue and he told me that actually uh the negative statistics in his states has have absolute have um decreased as a result of their uh using marijuana recreationally particularly in the area of drunken driving and the like he says the the the positive thing about all of that is that people who drink and drive tend to be aggressive and speed and that that wasn't happening uh with marijuana you know but more importantly and uh and I I confess to him that I have a a a tinge of guilt about this and he um he uh he and I shared that and it had to do that uh back in the day when I had a chance to do something uh we would so aggressively enforce the anti drug laws that um we unfortunately put people in jail for using marijuana and uh you know here we are years later and I couldn't help but think that a number of young people might have had a better future if we were much more if we were enlightened back in the day and so what he was discussing and what we were talking about was uh creating a bill that would pardon people who were given outrageously long sentences for uh doing marijuana at least in washington and hopefully we'll do something like that in hawai the problem obviously is that you know we sent some you know young people into incarceration and um it affected them they may not be the same person you may not be pardoning the same person but nevertheless you know it is a black black spot on many of our consciences that so many young people got swept up that uh probably shouldn't have that that's absolutely right and we have a chance unfortunately the legislature has chosen not to move forward the decriminalization or the legalization but have got a decriminalization measure that's still alive which is the half step in the right direction um no so are there any other exciting issues that uh the progressive alliances or organizations are taking up at the legislature there's there's several you know there's there's some pet peeves of mine and and I have to be clear that I don't speak for all progressives I play our role well progressives are like democrats you know they don't necessarily all agree absolutely criminal justice reform we talked about marijuana but bail reform is another huge issue you know I didn't know uh until a year ago or so that approximately half or maybe a little bit more than half of people that are in jail today you know I are there awaiting trial yeah they can't pay the bail so what's the well how do you fix that well what's the proposal well there's there's others other states that have done it California is moving that direction there's at least one other state and really what we're looking at is uh small crimes if you would trespassing you know things that that poor people homeless people might uh might get arrested for and what happens is the bail might be 250 or 500 which to most of us is not that much money but they can't afford it so they go to jail they get they're in jail they lose their job they lose their house and it's a vicious downhill cycle uh if the fundamental rule on on this I've learned is that if the person is a threat or if they're a flight risk then yes put them in jail right but if they're if they're not really going to hurt anybody uh or they're not going to leave the country for for a shoplifting crime or something uh then then they should be out until they their schedule for court well you know the whole bail issue I in my opinion underscores the economic um right division in our justice system it always seems that people who can afford it get better justice than those who may not be able to and anyway um we're going to take a short break senator and uh we'll we'll be back in one minute sounds good hey loha my name is andrew landing i'm the host of security matters hawaii airing every wednesday here on think tec hawai live from the studios i'll bring you guests i'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe your co-workers safe your family safe keep our community safe we want to teach you about those things in our industry that you know may be a little outside of your experience so please join me because security matters aloha aloha i'm wendy lowe and i'm coming to you every other tuesday at two o'clock live from think tec hawaii and on our show we talk about taking your health back and what does that mean it means mind body and soul anything you can do that makes your body healthier and happier is what we're going to be talking about whether it's spiritual health mental health fascia health beautiful smile health whatever it means let's take healthy back aloha to talk story with john why hey for those of you who are interested in the topics that we are talking about and would like to call in with a question for our guests as well as myself who who i will do my which i will do my best to answer our phone number is 808-374-2014 this afternoon our guest is senator gary hoosier who is the president for former senator gary hoosier who is the president of the hawaii alliance for progressive action and we are right in the middle of a very interesting subject where we're going through the various issues and positions that hapa and many other progressive groups have taken at the state legislatures so welcome back uh senator welcome back so okay so prison reform i what are you calling prison not necessary prison reform just criminal justice reform bill reform you know and uh so what's your solution ultimately change the criteria for bill bill or well right right now there is there's a bill that's moving and the in the aclu is taking the lead on this measure right now and there's other other groups that's one of the ways that i personally work and hapa works is we don't necessarily take the lead and we're not the expert uh but we help uh promote promote the issue promote the education on the issue and get people to the table who support it if we believe it falls in line with our values okay well let's uh let's uh move on any other issues like this that you have been uh well there's there's there's quite a few actually tax reform is a big one uh there's a reform re r e i t s the real estate investment trust right now these are large taxes large landowners pardon does it reach pay any taxes in hawaii uh no they don't uh if you own stock in a reed or shares in a reed you pay in the state that you live in and so if most of the owners are in a another state they're not paying tax on that so they don't and they and you and the owners pay income tax that's right in the state where they live in the state where they live so what uh i'm a common developer let's say i'm a developer i want to develop but i have a hawaii corporation in addition to any income tax i also as a business would have to pay tax corporate income tax themselves would pay tax in hawaii and reeds don't do this exactly and and what happened is a lot of the very large developers who previously were paying corporate income taxes have converted their their business model to a reeds model which means they avoid paying those taxes i i believe it's around 40 million dollars a year of taxes that the state of hawaii is losing because of this particular phenomena which started uh short time ago i think 10 years ago or so so uh i i don't understand this but wouldn't that be a uh a business competition issue i mean wouldn't i if i was the chamber of commerce want all of my members to be treated the same not just the few that can turn their corporations into i i don't understand the opposition it's interesting uh that you bring that up because the the people testifying on this issue are businesses on both sides some businesses feel just the same way you just said that we're paying our fair share why are why doesn't everybody else pay there right and i think this has a chance of passing uh this year actually it like many of these things that uh taken a couple of years to get people educated well let me uh you know this this interest me because every time i turn on the radio i hear uh these ads saying that somehow this we are going to lose money or we are we being the state of hawaii the people of hawaii the taxpayers of hawaii uh somehow going to lose money because nobody will want to invest anymore if this these taxes pass and from your point of view how valid is that concerned you know i don't think it's valid at all i mean if you look at every issue the opposition will say the sky is falling you know if we don't do this something bad's going to happen i think people will invest in hawaii because hawaii is a wonderful place for for the kind of investments people want the large investments you know resort development that kind of thing if they don't want to invest in hawaii they won't but it's not going to be because of some tax you don't think that the tax that a tax on a wreath is going to actually be the business determination of whether or not somebody would do a development in hawaii i mean it's no absolutely not okay um you know what's interesting about our entire conversation up till now is that usually progressives are associated with environmental issues and most of what you have we have talked about has to do with social reform or or actually a business reform economic issues and i find that fascinating but you must have a few environmental issues that you would like to see the state of hawaii improve on yeah you know that when it comes down to it we're all in this together you know it's all interconnect environment the economy social justice and i believe the economic justice issues have been neglected quite frankly my background is in environmental land use and the water issue house bill 1326 the stream diversion issue that's been on the news is an interesting example of environment explain that issue because a lot of people have heard about it i mean you couldn't have been paying attention to any of any recent news reports without running into the issue or the water diversion issue uh and the like but i you know i don't know why but i thought this was all decided many many years ago when chief justice Richardson said something about you couldn't divert water and keep it away from uh downland users or isn't that a what the law of hawaii says no that is exactly what the law and by the way that was done on your island that's what the law says yeah so why are we having this issue well that a couple of reasons the most people would say because the state department of land and natural resources has not demanded that these companies comply in their defense they they may not have the resources of staffing i kind of think it's a complicated issue but it has gone on for for decades and on generations already uh we got i mean chief justice Richardson made that decision i think in the middle 1970 and even i i mean i'm old enough to remember when it came out i'm sorry if that dates me absolutely i mean businesses can use the water but they have to get a permit they have to leave enough water in the stream so it doesn't kill the stream and they have to use leave enough water for the downstream user to be able to use a perfectly logical yeah but uh large organizations and small but primarily the large organizations and this one revolves around Alexander Baldwin on Maui uh the court actually ruled again that they could not keep using the water unless they got proper permit okay and they haven't done it they they came to the legislature and they're back at the legislature now asking to change the law to allow them to use water without getting the long-term permits that constitution required i you know i i i'm not that familiar with all of the nuances of this but it would seem to me that if the constitution requires that something be done i don't know if it's how what's the idea of getting a statute to change the constitutional requirement well i think that happened yeah i i don't know and i don't agree with it this particular situation is further complicated if you would by the fact that Alexander Baldwin sold most of their land to another organization and their sales agreement says that Alexander Baldwin will get them the water and there'll be a 62 million dollar benefit for doing that okay when you say that because i've sort of heard that in passing as well so if if they Alexander Baldwin sold property and they told the buyer that we'll get you the water if we don't get you the water then we'll pay the buyer 62 million dollars or they will return the 62 million dollars of the purchase price or the sales i've read the agreement uh and it's they frame it as a rebate wow you know what we quickly go and get this thing is getting so interesting but go ahead top real quick so in the sales contract says it's a rebate so if Alexander is not able Alexander Baldwin is not able to deliver the water to Mahi Pono Alexander Baldwin has to give Mahi Pono 62 million dollars back but as you know the water is not owned by anyone it's a public water and with the courts at this moment Alexander Baldwin doesn't even have control long term control over the water so you know the you know so the price of the water is really like 62 million dollars and if Alexander and Baldwin doesn't get these permits or if they do get the the extension why shouldn't the state of Hawaii get 62 million dollars i know you give our schools could certainly use 62 million dollars well you know unfortunately Gary we you know i really wanted to talk to you about one of your other exciting programs but we got really interested in some of these core issues and someday i want to invite you back you've got to tell me uh well tell the people about the what's it called kuleana kuleana academy yes kuleana academy where you actually go out and work with young people or just people actually and give them the skills to run for office and to champion some of these issues my understanding is that you're beginning to see success with all of this we are so if i can have your commitment maybe one of your trips to Honolulu i'd love to do this again i would love to be there also governor thank you so much for the invitation pleasure always thank you and ladies and gentlemen i want to thank you all for joining us today and hopefully we'll have gary back and we can hear about what he's doing to help young people take over the leadership of the state aloha