 Greetings and welcome to Behind the Curtain. Here behind the Curtain we're going to look at the world of community theater and in some cases theater in general. I'm your host Susan Harrington. Today we're being joined by Vivian Lewis-Summons. Vivian is an actress and a playwright. Welcome Vivian. Hi, how are you? Thanks. Nice to see you. You too. And I've directed too. Yeah, oh that's right. Oh, okay. So let's, how did you, I guess I want to start because I know most of the things I've seen you in or dealt with you have been in terms of acting. But how did you get into playwriting? Because you're doing things with a certain group, but I'll let you go into that. So I started, well I started playwriting specifically because I was angry. I was angry about a white woman playwright who asked me to be in her play to, or to read her play. It wasn't, you know, it's just a reading. And the character she wanted me to be, she wanted to make a statement about, she wanted to make a statement about health care in the United States versus health care in China. So she had, the character she had written was a Chinese nurse who was bumbling and had an accent, I mean specifically it said, you know, bumbling has accent, I don't know, like other things. And it was like, it was supposed to be, you know, anyway. So I got mad because it's like, what is this, what is this role? And actually, she and I kind of exchanged things. And so I long story short, I didn't do it. But then I kind of got me thinking about the times I have been typecast or not even not even typecast specifically in casting, but just like, not just me, but just like how people put you in a box. And it's like, okay, you look like this. So this is what you should be doing. So I wrote a play, my first play was called is called Waiting for Kim Lee. And it was two Asian American actresses waiting in the casting room to be called for a commercial where they were like the generic mom for some, you know, like neutra, some neutra brain bar or something. And so I wrote it about these two women talking about, you know, how they're being, you know, being typecast and basically how they are the roles that the dream roles that they had were all roles that have been written by white men, dead white men, like, you know, Lady with Beth or Julia, Juliet or, you know, all these things that are just like these, these are, you don't have to limit where you are. So I started that there. And then I started, I joined a group. I had been part of other readings from playwrights that were Asian American and they had started a group called the Asian American Playwright Collective. And so I started, and it's Massachusetts or, you know, Massachusetts based mostly Massachusetts based playwrights that are trying to further the Asian American voice and experience. So everybody's Asian American. And that and most of the time we're writing about our experiences or, you know, or not always, but you know, so it's been a great experience. And so I started, like I said, I started with that white ink for Kim Lee. And then every year we put on a play fest and I've written for, you know, for most years. And it's like we've had, this has been our sixth year. We just did our sixth year. We performed in the Starlight. We performed many places in the last few years. We'd started a Starlight Square in Central Square. And we, I've been really lucky that to find this group of people and to be able to bring, put my put my voice in there out there with everybody. And so, because I went this summer and of course I get to the door and they go, it's canceled because of rain. Oh yeah, the weather. Yeah, it was raining. So, because I was surprised that I had never heard of it before. Oh really? Yeah. And it was funny because Michelle, a girlie in system, well of course, you know, she talked to me like, you know, snow was white, you know, it was like something that I had heard. I'm like, what are you talking about, Michelle? So, I got to, like I had made a real big effort to get out there and I kept calling and they kept saying they were going to have it and then I got to the door for the outside place. Yeah, it was a really, it was, yeah, this particular, we had two nights, we had two, yeah, two nights and or two, no, just two nights. And the first night was fine, it was Friday and then Saturday it was just like one of those rainy, it was kind of like, was it rain? Was it going to rain? And they just made the call, like minutes before we were supposed to open. But I mean, have you written something for each of the years? So, in other words, you have these six pieces out there with your name on it. Well, I didn't, I didn't start writing till like the second or third year. So, I have, I have, I've written like five plays, you know, and they're all short ten minute plays. I'm actually thinking about a piece that I, it's still in my head but it's, you know, talking about my, my idea is to have characters cleaning out to Asian American, the sisters that are cleaning out their parents and I think it's probably their mother's house. It sounds like appropriate but it's not. Like Brendan, Jacob, Brandon, Jake, Jenkins, Jacobs, but it's a little, it's my spin on it. So, I, but I haven't written it and it may be longer than 10 minutes because there might be more to it than that. So, wow. It's great. So, okay, then I was just going to say one of my thoughts was where do you get your ideas for your place which you kind of told me. It's, you want to share that experience and you don't want to do it and correct me if I'm wrong in a sterile, stereotypical way. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of our, I mean, not to speak for everybody but a lot of the plays that we write about that, I mean, my particular inspirations are just kind of, sometimes we have prompts. So, like one year we talk about let's, everybody write something about food or somebody, everybody write something about family. And so, we sometimes we have prompts and that helps and just sometimes it's just, you know, just day to day things. I wrote this one play, it was, our theme was Dreams and I think Nightmares because there were a couple of Nightmare Plays and my dream play was called Dream Fairy and it actually had nothing to do with race but it actually, the Dream Fairy idea came to me in my dreams where there's a woman who's sleeping and this Dream Fairy comes to her and rhymes, everything that the Dream Fairy says is in rhymes, in couplets. And like the first few lines of the Dream Fairy just came in my dream, literally. I woke up and I wrote them down. It's like, you know, I'm your Dream Fairy. Don't be scary. You know, I'm not scary. I'm your Dream Fairy. You know, I'm here to, I can't even remember what I wrote but it was just, it was so much fun and and I wrote it for two people. Usually you might have very small plays though. Anyway, so I wrote that and it just, like I said, it literally came to me in a dream. Another play I wrote, I actually kind of collaborated, I collaborated with a couple other people. This was during COVID and we, the Asian American Player Collective, we had a joint virtual event with Papa, which I think is Philadelphia Asian and Pacific American Collective. And we, I was paired randomly with three other people and we decided to write a play that was more like a skit. And it was called So You Think You Could Win Grandma's Love. And that was actually, there was four characters and the idea is that this grandma who, every night she pits her granddaughter and grandson to like, who loves me more? And then the mother is like the game show host. So that was just, it was kind of, I mean, it started in that, that collaborative event. So but, but I kind of, I took it and I wrote, you know, the whole thing out. So it was, that was fun. So it's like, it's just random where inspiration comes. And I think, actually just can come from wherever you, what you know, you know, what you, and like I said, it started through me being angry, but it just has been a good outlet. And sometimes that's kind of having that kind of impetus, because it gives you that fire to move beyond. You might have had something and you know, that sounds it, but then that just kind of pushes you off the, so okay, so how long have you been doing this? Because you have children that are, they're not children anymore. They're adults. They're grown-ups. But they think they're adults. And I'm trying to think of, when I first encountered you what show it was. Joined at the head. No, I think it was before that. You auditioned for- Oh, that's right, that's right. Yes, I, yes, I did, that's right. You auditioned for something. I was very disappointed. He weren't cast. And that was quite a while, though. Oh, that's right. That was before I was, that was before I was married, actually. Really? I think it was like two- 1990? No. 2000. I got married in 2000. Oh, really? 1999, 1998. But I was, you know, I was just a teenager. So, as you, as were you. Yes. But, yeah, actually that goes, that actually, that experience is something I talk about in stereotyping because, I mean, if you don't mind me mentioning it, you know, because, yeah, that's right. That's where I first met you because I auditioned for a play. And, and when I didn't get it, which is fine, you know, like that, that happened, the director called me directly and said, you, I have to tell you, you were the best person for this role, but I can't cast you because it's set in the 1950s. And I can't have an Asian woman doing this role. And I said, and at the time I was like, oh, that's so nice of you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. But then after, you know, like years later, it's like, wait a minute, why couldn't you have, you know, obviously this is way before Hamilton, this is way before there was non-traditional casting and now it's not, you know, I mean, I think most people wouldn't bat an eye. But at the time it was, it was flattering. But then in retrospect, it's like, well, why can't you, why couldn't you cast me? Because, well, you know, because typically the way they did things is the, the director would call everyone to tell them that, you know, ask them if they would take a role and tell if they would. And I had the dubious distinction of calling everybody that wasn't. Yeah. And your name was in that pile. I was very sad about it. But it was taken from me and said, I want to call her specifically. I want to call her myself. Because I had to call something like 80 people. Yeah. I mean, and that's, and actually that's not even done anymore. People don't even really call. Yeah. Oh, I mean, this is a way, maybe, I mean, there was email, but it was like, you know, it wasn't, people didn't, yeah, but it wasn't common. So, well, and they didn't think that they thought it should, you should have a personal touch. But when you have, I had to, 80 people auditioned for that, 79 or 70, 80 people auditioned for that show. And I had to call 60 of them. Right. Yeah. I had a little speech that was down pat. I was praying people wouldn't answer because I could do it on the answer machine. Hi, click. You know, I don't even think people don't even do that anymore. No, they don't. Many of them don't. You just get like, maybe if you're lucky, you get an email. Yeah. But sometimes you don't even hear. Oh, really? Wow. Well, I mean, actually that's more like commercial theater. Yeah. Okay. So then, what advice would you give someone and maybe because and I'm saying this, maybe it's not fair, because you have written things under, with the perspective of an Asian person, or do you look at things, you know, what would be an advice you would give someone starting out and play writing? I think, so I alluded to it before as I would say, start with something you know. I actually encourage everybody, even if you don't plan to do anything with it, I think I encourage people to write something because and I know I've seen, you know, I know people that have been frustrated, especially a woman as you age, and you want to do theater, community theater, whatever, and they're not as many roles or there's not a many slots. And I've told people, write something for yourself. Do something that makes you happy. And I'm not necessarily writing for myself, but I think to start, I think write what you know, think about what you want to say, or you know, maybe, or maybe just like put your thoughts on a paper and just go. You know, I mean, I guess it doesn't have to go anywhere. It may, it might be, and I can tell you in a minute, I can tell you about what you want to do, if you want it to go somewhere. But I think it's very, I find it pretty, pretty therapeutic to write, sit down and write and, and there are organizations and groups in the, you know, in the greater Boston area that are dedicated to trying to, to cultivate and curate and help young, or not, not young necessarily, but like emerging playwrights, especially playwrights of color. So, you know, there's the Boston playwrights platform, the playwrights theater that you, it's a nominal fee. And I think you can join and you can have your, they have resident actors, I'm a resident actor, and you can have your play and you can ask some people to read it, and you can hear it, you know, and, and there's actually an audience and I think people that just go to those and listen to, you know, they just want to hear and they give you feedback and say, well, what do you think of about that? And then there's, there's also a lot of groups that are like fresh ink, just, I'll release their, their application for emerging playwrights. And, and one is it based on Asian American playwrights, and then there's another about, you know, queer and LGBTQ stories, and then there's none just toward like anybody who's just trying to look. Company One has a playwright fellowship. There, I mean, there's a lot of groups that have, they're trying to encourage you to, to, to nurture, you know, your playwriting skills. Oh, wow. I hear about that, because I, there's a little, it's funny, there's a little being of an idea that I have, and I've told, do you know Lou Foucault? Oh yeah, Lou, yeah, I know, I love Lou, yeah, I've directed him in many ways. Okay, and I, there's this piece, and I said to him, Lou, when I thought about this, it's a two character piece, I thought about you first, I said, I'd love for you to be in it. He goes, well, write it, honey, write it, you know. That's right. I mean, that's what, that's what an actor wants to hear. It's like, I thought of you when I wrote this, right? So of course, it's, write it, do it Susan. Yeah. I mean, what, you know, even if it's just for you, do it. But I'm happy to, if you write something, I'm happy to look at whatever you write. Okay, great. You heard of folks. But actually, I mean, that's another thing, it's like you, whatever you write, if you, once you get into a place where you feel like you want to hear how it sounds, have your friends, I mean, you can do like the formal, you know, the Boston Playwrights platform like I talked about, but, or you could just, you know, plenty of people, you could just say, Vivian, hey, can you read this? And I just want to, you know, maybe like have people in your living room and just, you know, like a two-person and just Lou and whoever, sit down. I just want to hear you read it. And, and it's, you know, it's part of, it can be very informal, but then they're obviously, the more polished you get, the more formal it can be. Well, because what I'm wondering is that, for example, one thing that we did together, most specifically, I know you've done things at AFD and I was on the board, but I didn't, wasn't directly, you know, affiliated with Avenue, Avenue Q, but when we did join at the head, that had the three main characters, and then it had what I call the Greek chorus, because it was the other four or five people were different folks. Right, that's right. What are some of the favorite things that you've done in, you know, that you've enjoyed doing? You mean just in general? Just in general. Well, I've really, so I think part of, this is right before I started writing plays, but one of the, one of the best experiences I've had was when I was growing up, Joy Luck Club was the book that everybody was reading, you know, and especially it was like an Asian American story about Asian American mothers and daughters specifically. And it was just, it resonated with me, I watched the movie, I loved the movie, I took my mother the movie, and she's like, oh, those stories, everybody knows those stories. But anyway, so then the, there was a play version written of it, and a few years ago, Michelle Aguilon, who are a good friend of ours, directed the version, and it was at the umbrella at the time. So I was very fortunate to be cast as one of the mothers, and it was an all Asian cast, we had, actually we had Nick Miller, he was our one white guy, but, you know, it was all Asian cast, and that really started my, I mean, I had worked with Asian American actors before in Boston, but that was like really where it was, we put this full length production up, and we had, we ate a lot, as we always do, and we had great time, and I think we told a really compelling story, when it was sold out the whole time, the whole run, we'd had three weekends or something, and it was sold out the whole run, because I think it was really, it was resonating, and I remember I would go out after the show, and I would talk to people, and sometimes it was like, you know, friends, and it's nice to, you know, but then I saw this young little girl, maybe she was 10 or so, and her mother, and the little girl, the mother said to me, my daughter thought you were, you know, she were her favorite character, I said, well, that's really sweet, so do you know, who do you know in the cast, she said, and the mother said, I don't know anybody, I just knew that this was a story, I love this story as a kid, so I wanted to bring her to it, and she was really, it was just, it was so, it was so gratifying, because it was, it validated that there were these valuable stories that people wanted to hear and see, and there were people that could perform it, because I think that was one of some, and you can ask Michelle if you ever have her on your show, I think that was one of her things that she, you know, feedback she got, and originally it's like, can you find people, and can you find good people, and she's like, yes, and yes, and it was, it was a really wonderful experience, so that started really kind of my, I mean, I had, like I said, I had worked with people before, but this was, that started me on the journey of really working with all these wonderful Asian American actors, Kai Choi, or Kai Chow, and Christina Chan, and Michelle, and Hortense Gerardo as a playwright we worked with, and I mean, just all these wonderful folks that have these stories and are sharing, you know, these visions, and I've worked with Kai as he's been my husband several times, but he's directed me, and Christina, I've been in her pieces, and you know, she was my, and she was one of the other mothers, and she, we had a great scene where we were making, we coordinated it, we were making, miming, making gorchen cookies, so we call each other our forking cookie buddies, and so it just started us, and then, and then from the AAPC, the Asian American Playwright Collective, these play fest, we, every year we cast, you know, these wonderful Asian American, a lot of them very emergent, a lot of them became, have gone on to be equity, and moved to New York, or LA, or on, law and order and stuff, you know, like all these, we, we had an opportunity to work with so many great people, and there's so many that are still around, you know, there's just a lot of, it's a great community. Wow. And you know, what's nice is, I've had people say to me, well, they perceive it as being like a kind of closed and racist thing, and I've said, but you know, there's groups that don't see themselves, so this group, as with some others, have made this concerted effort, and so we know where, now in some cases, a group or a body of those people are, because I've said some things here at ACMI that maybe we could do something at using the stage at AFD to do some of you guys play. That'd be, we would love it. So then I said to Michelle, so do we know any Spanish groups? Because I want to try to, you know. Yes, there's a, a Chelsea is, they have, I could link you with people that are involved in Latin American stories. Oh, okay. And see, that's what I would like to, yeah, to see, to see happen, because as you were saying, there's all, there are a lot of children who I know from having been a teacher that there's certain books that kids don't, they're not aware of, they don't see themselves in them, you know. Right, that's right. Yeah, it was, it was so, I was so touched by that story with the mother and her daughter, because the, I mean, obviously the mother, like me, grew up with the, you know, Joy Lake Club, and it was something that, that was part of her childhood, or her, you know, young adulthood, and then bringing her daughter to it, and so that she could see that, you know, I was so moved by that. And, and there are a lot of great groups in Boston that are, you know, you know, about French Porch, Front Porch Collective that has had a partnership for the last few years with Huntington, and they put, just put on Fat Ham, and K-I-S-S-I-N-G, and at the Huntington, and they, you know, they do a lot of great work, and there is Teatro Chelsea, that is based in Chelsea, that does work with the Apollinaire Theater. The Apollinaire, I've been to a couple of times, and seen some things there. Yeah, and there's, and I, I know, you know, we have, there's so much more that we could do, and we're just, I think we're all, actually, Front Porch has done as much more mature, they've done a lot because of that partnership. But Chung Stage, actually I should mention, Allison Chi, who is the director and founder of Chung Stage, which is a, I think maybe one of the first bilingual Mandarin Chinese English focused, you know, play groups out there, and she's done a lot of great work, she just produced Christina's work. Rosanna Alfaro, who is one of our playwrights in the playwright collective, has, was one of the first people, she's, she's 80 plus years old, she's like the sharpest attack, and she was one of the first people that had her work done professionally, and, you know, in the Boston area, she, I think like early work was done at the Huntington, and she was a Huntington playwright fellow. And so, I mean, like I said, there's generations of people, and we have Jamie Lynn, who's another playwright that is in our group, that is, she's had her work done by the Boston Theater Marathon, she was part of Christina's recent play that was done, put on by Chung Stage, so there's, there's just a lot of great groups out there. So that, as I say, that having been said, what are some of the roles that you like to perform? Well, I, so I, I mean, I could say the things that like I would, you know, I would love to do Lady Macbeth at some point, you know, written by that dead white guy, but I think actually the thing, the roles I would love to perform, I've not yet been written, or they're not out yet you know, out there. I love being in my fellow playwright plays because I really feel like I hope I'm helping, I'm giving, doing justice to what they're trying to, to convey. I've been at a couple of Jamie's plays, I've been at a couple of Christina's plays, I've been in Hortense's, Michelle has directed me, Michelle has been in my, she was in waiting for Kim Lee with me, Allison actually directed by the first production of that. So I, I feel like there's, I mean, I'm not saying that I'm going to necessarily write it, but I think that there are things that are out there that I don't even know about yet. Oh, okay. That's, that's, I don't want to, what am I supposed to say, that's encouraging. Yeah, and I think, and I think that there are also opportunities to, Michelle and I've talked about doing an all, all Asian version of, of, of some of the other plays that are out there, like Three Sisters or, or, yeah, or Osage County or something, you know, something that's traditionally been white and doing a different spin. I know that there was a group theater group, and I can't remember the name of it, that just recently did God of Carnage with, and it was in, with Four Asian, I think it was actually, it wasn't Allison's group, but it was another group that, Vermillion Theater, I think, that did it with Four Asian actors, and they might have actually, actually done it in Mandarin, I can't remember. I could be wrong, but like, and I'm saying, like, there's opportunities. And that's, that, I mean, I saw the, I saw the production that Michelle directed, and it was amazing. Yeah. So who's to say that it couldn't have been done that way? Yeah, that's right. I mean, I don't know if I would go see that one because I don't understand Mandarin. Yeah, I know, I know, I think they had a, I actually, I shouldn't say that because I don't know, I just know that they had this, this group that, that had four Asian actors who did God of Carnage and it, but they said it, I think in, in, in Asian American community, they were playing, you know, so it was very true to their story and it translates because it's like overprotective parents and, you know, all the class struggles and things like that. So, yeah. So then, okay, I, I was going to ask what your, my, it's going to be my standard final question is what on your bucket list is, but you told me it hasn't been written yet. And not, not necessarily. I think that there's just like, there's, I think there's so much more potential that, that we, I don't, I don't think, I think the great thing about Hamilton and others things is like, it's really open people's eyes to, you don't have to be traditional in your casting. You don't have to have the dead white guy being paid by, you know, a white guy or whatever, you know. So it's, I think, yeah. I mean, bucket list is. So when I last minute, tell me, how do hubby and the young ins feel about what you do? Well, I, I, my kids haven't always seen everything I do. My, my, I don't know. It's really funny. One time I was, came back from business trip. I was in New York for like a week and my, I came back and my son's like, oh, you were away on a business trip? I thought you were on rehearsal all week. And I said, no, I was not, I literally was not here. You know, I, they, they, they, I like, they think, you know, they, they're, I think they like it. I don't know, but they haven't, my, my husband has seen most of my stuff, but not my, my kids, because they're not around. Because you were doing this before you two met, right? That's right. So he had to buy into it. He had to buy into it. That's right. He saw me when I, I did, um, uh, what did I do? I did, um, this, uh, House of Blue Leaves. I did a footlight. Oh, wait. And he saw, I was, I was, um, I was one of the, I had none. That's right. I forgot. I was, I was the box office there. That's right. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I know it's been, so it was actually before, before, um, Aguana then, that was a heck of a, but it was, Bill Dutcher directed that and Candace was in it. Yeah. Yeah. She was amazing. Yeah. Bill Dutcher was a great. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, you go back a long time. Yes. Oh my goodness. Because we started as teenagers. Yes. And well, I mean, Gabby was in the third grade. Yes. She did the crucible at Footlight Club. Yes. Yes. Michelle and I, we, we have a long history because she and I would always read for the same show. Yes. So, I know. Well, thank you for joining us and hearing behind the curtain. I'm Susan Harrington and our guest was Vivian Lusamas and playwright, actress and terrific mom and everything. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was so much fun. Thank you. Time flew. Yes.