 Welcome, John. My name is Rebecca Nichols, and I'll be the moderator. Let's start from the beginning. John, where were you born? Born in Minnesota. A little town right outside Minneapolis. What were your parents' names? Your parents' names? Oh, Jim and Millie. Great, you have any brothers and sisters? Yeah, but four sisters, no brothers. Really? Yeah. What did you know their names? Janice, Mary, Maureen, and Jill. Wonderful. So what, you were from Minnesota, when did you come to California? Well, the day I graduated, I joined the Navy. I was back when you had a draft, and I thought I'd let them pay for the school. So, you know, I was either draft, so I joined the Navy, and I went to boot camp, spent two and a half years, and overseas, and I don't know when that was happening, got back here, was discharged here in San Francisco in 1967, but I've been living here at an apartment for like six months. Wow. I loved it. I loved the city, San Francisco. I didn't want to go anywhere. Right. In the summer of 1967, what else would you expect? That's wonderful. That's the best place to be. So where was this apartment? Our first one, when I was still in the Navy, was down on Turk Street. Turk, and I don't know, close down to Compton's, Timbillon. Sure. Charming little place. Sure, but you spent most of your time in the Haydashbury. Yeah. In the park. Well, we went to this, this girl next door came over and said there was this great little party going to be down at the Long Charmands Hall, and I should go to that. And I thought, Long Charmands, they're like sailors, we'll get along great. So I went down there and there was, it was a little strange. It was just banned. I didn't like the name Grateful Dead. They were playing there. They have this punch. The rest is history. Yeah, the long story short, we have the time. Exactly. So at this time, you were out of the service? No, I was right on the brink of getting discharged in July of 1967. And Timbillon was saying, hey, you've got to come down in the Haydstreet now. What a terrible name for a street. And they, oh, you've got to see the beat-makes of all the wind colors down there. Well, really. So I went down and, yeah. So you were used to going down to North Beach. We were singing folk songs. Camels or nights at all the clubs, hungry eye, coffee and confusion and all that. The Sprinny Line played a beautiful 12-string-way song. We were saying folk songs. Sure. But all the beat-makes were dressed in black, you know. Things were happening in North Beach before they were on Haydstreet. Yeah, but they were all beat-makes. They were all dressed in black. They snapped their fingers instead. It's all about coffee, red wine, and being depressed. And all of a sudden... They smoked some of that ganja. They made very well-hand. And the difference was LSD came in. No. No, that wasn't happening down there. And that was all... I mean in the Haydstreet. The beat-makes, yeah. The beat-makes that wear colors. They didn't know a name for them. But the beat-makes that all of a sudden started wearing kaleidoscope outfits. They were hip. Yeah. Great fun. Like hipsters. A lot of fun. Yeah. Well, you know, we had the diggers. We were going around salvaging. So you finally beat Haydstreet. Oh, yeah. Were you blown away by what you saw? Yeah, that was just, you know, it was really fun. We worked with the diggers, collecting food, feeding people on the streets. The rents were real low. Sure. And we had school bus. We'd fill it up with people, go to geysers. Get a water, take a swim in the creek. Yeah. And all of that. So there was a lot of music happening? Yeah. There was a lot of music happening. But it was all local bands, you know. Jefferson Airplay and Grateful Dead. San Francisco Sound. Jimi Hendrix. That was kind of local bands. Right. Jazz. It was just the kids from the neighborhood. Exactly. They'd get up and jam. Jazz is really good at that. Try to tell that to people. They don't. So you could get it. Even though you tell it, you had to be there. And did you pick up at all? Was your hair short at this time? No. I would never cut it again. Just let it grow? Yeah. I haven't cut it since. It's been weeks. Weeks. Since 1967. So you started to see so many young people coming from everywhere. People looking for a better world. Yeah. It turned into a real scene. And I don't know. It just had a lot of charisma. It's like I say. It was such a good idea. Everybody was so happy about doing it that way. That it created some kind of an atmosphere. And it's like I say, the Beatles came over to see what was going on. And I believe we changed the Beatles. And the Beatles changed the world. It's never been the same since. Exactly. No, I think that's true. I think there's some insight there. It's so true. There was a lot of music. There was a lot of art. There was a lot of writing. There was a lot of people believing they could make change now. They kids. Yeah. Yeah. We were really optimistic. We were saying, you know, all these people around had got to be snowballing. There was more and more people involved. And it started spreading from city to city. Almost like spontaneous combustion. Sure. Of some kind. But it was traveling. People said, you know, it was the hate. But people from here, after a while, people just lived in five to six different cities all at the same time. And they traveled back and forth and spread the word. So it turned into like a prairie fire. It's an interesting time. In New York things were happening. In England things were happening. In Madison, Wisconsin, things were happening. All over the place. Plus there was an influx of young people from all over the world to this area. All feeling they could make a difference and they could be peace in their time. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get carried away with this feeling? Did you feel... Oh, yeah. I thought it was gonna... ...welcome in the morning, passionate about the day and always wonderful about... Well, it depends on what time it was because it wasn't a progression. You know, like if you have really great parties, everybody shows up at the end of the night. There's always those 10 or 12 or just a little bit different than the rest. Still looking for the party. Still looking. So, you know, and we had millions of people come out to visit. Totally. And so it got to be a little hectic towards the end. So about, like, about how old were you? Year 67? 67? Yeah, I moved to the Hague when I was 21. The day I was 21, I got out of the Navy and stopped cutting my hair. That's right. Yeah. I think I wrote a song about that. Now, where did you live when you moved here to the Hague? The best place was up on Frederick Street at Casa de Madron. Right. Like down the corner, turned into a big commune and a lot of friends and people like that. So a lot of people lived there. Yeah. So what was your daily, when you moved here, what was your day like? You're very artistic, John. Yeah, well... I know through the years later myself how artistic you are. Collage work, painting, on every level, flags and drops and all kinds of things. You've contributed so much to the scene. I'm wondering back then, in the early years, were you artistic at all? Yeah, I started going to art school when I was eight years old. Okay. And I used to go all during the later part of grade school, high school to the Minneapolis School of Art. Uh-huh. I started out on weekends and then I'd go to weekdays and took all these classes. I really liked art. I've been at 12 years of art school. I went to City College here. But it's never been out of my mind. At one point, when I was really young, I said, well, if I'm going to be an artist, I have to support myself with an art. I'll do anything as long as I can finagle that into looking like it's artwork. And that's been my motivating force. I'm able to overcome the ADD with that motivation. Okay. Oh, many great people have. This is pretty that way. So back during this period, you remember any places like this? Have you remembered a place called the Street Theater? Oh, yeah. I used to go there all the time. On the weekends, they'd turn the projectives to put them out on the roof and show movies on the sides of the buildings. And it wasn't just entertainment, the kind of stuff that they show. That was the first time I'd ever seen more of the buttons. Wow. And it's like the rascals meet politics. Right. Bunch of kids. Right. They used to show that at a regular rate because it would teach people in the community what politics is all about. And it was more than just entertainment. It was more than just 500 people laying in the street watching movies on the buildings. No, totally. And it was all about teaching. Of course, with Alan Watts and bunches of different people. And Tim Larry came out. Sure. St. Stephen. A lot of people. And they had the magical mystery tour of Lake. The first time in America, I think. And like Alan Watts, we had a little lectures in the morning out at the beach. And it was all about expanding, growing, learning, stuff like that. Exactly. Making people saving newspapers by the garbage pail. People thinking they were crazy because they didn't want to cut down trees. And it took one person to make a change. Because now we've got recycling. You know, it obviously kept you here a while. Yeah. A lot of my friends moved out in 1968. Become your family. Did you feel that there were people in the neighborhood? I mean, you woke up every day. When you went out, you knew you were going to see somebody you knew. Yeah. That's convenient. They're all out there in the woodwork. But I liked it because it was, it got a reputation for attracting a certain kind of person. And some people would move out and some people move in. But if you've got the whole of the United States to choose, who's going to live here? They choose themselves. They get up, they put all their stuff in the car and they drive out here. And you get, they've been through a thousand sieves, a thousand screens and filters just to get here. Right. And they end up being some of the best people because of all that. Free thinkers. Free thinkers. Yeah. Free thinkers. And people wanting to make a better place. People that are attracted to this reputation, how real or evasive that is. They're attracted to the reputation and it creates itself by having that reputation. So a lot of people move out. They move in. They're wonderful for a while. And some people get burnt out. Some people get gobbled up. Where do you live right now? A block off of hate and a block off of Masonic. I've been to Mr. Park. I've been to Mr. Park and it's hate and Masonic basically. And I think you brought a photo of your house. This is what the house looks like. We're now the end of May 2005. You've been there how many years? 19 years. 19 years. Yeah. And we want to do a close-up. It's in the White House. Can you see that? Yes. Highlight. Yes. That's been, that's home. Yeah. That's home. Yeah. Well, it's got some. You brought some stuff. I would love to go through some of this with you because I know each photo is a story. You have some pictures on the Golden Gate Bridge. Tell me that story. Yeah. Well, we were trying to, I worked with Greenpeace and Sierra and the conservative groups and they will always, Greenpeace has always wanted to go up and fly Earth flag from the top of the Golden Gate Bridge. So I got up there and there was absolutely no wind. This is a flag that I used to take to grateful dead shows to get people to think about, you know, we're all on one planet, you know? Sure. I think that photograph taken from Spades of Earthrise. Yes. It's probably the most powerful image that was created in my lifetime because it gets people to think, okay, it didn't divide it up into little pastel odd shapes and dominated by local landlords, you might call them. Yeah. So I got up there and a flyless Earth flag, it would not fly. Not a puff of wind. I was smoking a cigarette and a smoke would hang right there, 750 feet above the water. You climbed all the way up there with this big flag. How big is that flag? Well, I have, the thing I invented, it's just a walking stick with a little bag on it and it turns into a 15-foot ball with a six-by-nine flag on it. But it all shrinks down. It's telescoping. So you'd think it was a walking stick. And I didn't climb up, I got inside and took the elevator. Oh. It's a tiny little elevator, smaller than a phone booth. Got four people mashed in there. They gave you permission. And took it to the top of the South Tower. Did you have to get permission to do this? Yeah, a friend of mine got permission for it. Great. And so I smottled my way in. You didn't actually hang, but it never flew in the wind. It never flew in the wind. It just hung over the side. Yeah, maybe someday it could still happen. Maybe someday it could still happen. Yeah, I used to, I was pushing that one world image for a long time. I did it for the ship, the Rainbow Warrior. What is the Rainbow Warrior? It's the flagship for Greenpeace. I made a flag for them. Oh, that's wonderful. And so they hired me to paint on the side of the ship. Let's do one at a time. We'll get a close-up on that. We're painting dolphins on the side of the Rainbow Warrior. And I painted it so they could put it on the side. Oh, let's see that. We'll just fill it. We'll get that. Another mud ball on the side of the ship. That's great. We painted dolphins up on the front. That's great. And on the paint of this orca on the back, this is supposed to be the fish equivalent of a lawyer. He's smiling. We're very dangerous watching the back of the ship. Then we are the day we had it dedicated. Wow. We had different holy people from all over the Bay Area. There was a Buddhist monk, a Native American, a star hot came out. It had every different kind of religion that we could think of. Come out and do a blessing ceremony. Wow. When we painted in the eyes on the... Wonderful. On the ship. Let's see. There's what the ship looks like. The whole ship. Really a beautiful ship. That's beautiful. We went out on the bay when they were taking pictures of it. I never got any of the pictures. But we went out underneath the Golden Gate Bridge and rode through some heavy weight. It's just a really beautiful ship. Beautiful ship. Yeah, we had a Christmas dinner with them. I mean, over and over again, I see you, John. Do we stuff that with what talent you've been given to help others get their message across for change? That's a great gift. You had had this vision of the world that you had mentioned that was one of the greatest images. You have some artwork you were doing on the ground of a giant world. Oh, yeah. I did... This is the largest chalk drawing that was in Golden Gate Park. They had a chalk drawing invitation and everyone could come out and draw a chalk. That was the biggest one. It was the largest drawing of the earth. It was in Golden Gate Park. It was really interesting. We had to put up a $10,000 bond just to draw on the sidewalks there. Because they were afraid... $10,000 clean it up after it's gone. We had to sign up and say, we'd wash them all off and we got done. They came down. They liked them so much that they left them. They were just beautiful. It's right in front of the bandshell. There's a whole bunch of people involved. That's wonderful. That's great. Then there's a photo of you. You make kites as well. Yeah, I invented a kite. It's called the Phoenix. It's for flying indoors. The Phoenix, of course, is the symbol of San Francisco. It's my own personal totem. Because the Phoenix is born of fire. Born of its own ashes. I get a lot of fires going on around me. It wasn't for that born again part. I think I'd get discouraged. But it's also the symbol of San Francisco. I made this thing on a telescoping pole. Now this will all fold up into a little tiny bag. With a walking stick. That's what it looks like. A long red bag with a walking stick. The band shell in the park. Yeah, this is the band shell. I was flying it down there one day for this Swedish prince or something. A bunch of people come over from Sweden. They still have royalty over there. We put on an event. I flew it for them. That said, Phoenix has been used in very many things. I use it for everything. For many, many things. I won the parade. I got a grand award in the Berkeley Earth Day for having the most interesting non-motorized float. And I know it was the lead and sometimes the tail at New Orleans by the Bay. Yeah, for sure. Every Chinese New Year, since 87. I had the Grateful Dead. Super. That's wonderful. That's me in this costume. It's the early clown costume. What is it called? A koshari. Look, do you have a few photos? There's an early one. What it is is the... What Whitney says, you've got to have a clown. You've got to have an outfit. You won't get beat up so bad if you're a clown. I thought, well, this is a good idea. So I had to pick a clown costume. I'm already clumsy. I don't need the big shoes to try to kill me. So I was wondering about... I found this is the oldest clown in America. If you go down to the Hopi Indians, maybe even the Anastasi in the Fort Corners of area of the Southwest, this clown has been around for thousands of years. So it's the oldest clown in America. It's the koshari. And they paint their body with black and white stripes to symbolize the days. And they have little sprouts coming out of their heads. So I took a jumpsuit and striped it. It was a lot easier. Painting my body. But a lot of these projects you work on, you invite a lot of your friends and the extended community to come join in. Yeah. Yeah. We had to... I didn't have a picture on this. This was on a Grateful Dead show at the Warfield. We had a gang of kosharis. All you have to do is bring something white, we'll stripe it up, and you can join in the fun. Their job is to show up in the Southwest, the original koshari. Their job is to show up at the general dance and do everything wrong. Their job is to do everything wrong. And I thought, I can do that. How can you do anything wrong if that's your job to do something wrong? So you're doing your job. And even if by accident you do something right, that's wrong. It's because also you win no matter what you do. That's wonderful. They have some terrible and disgusting habits at the general dance. They're a little more outrageous than we are. You've lived in your house 19 years here. Obviously, this has become your home. Now, why do you live in the Haydash Berry? I mean, you've been here since the 60s. And why do you, on tape, as people who don't know the Haydash Berry, have never been here, why are you a member of this community? Because the reputation draws a special kind of person. It's not everybody that moves out here. You know, you get the good with the bad, but you get such a high percentage of interesting, wonderful, talented, charming, I mean, the creative. You know, they can go if somebody is living in Priest River, Idaho. They can go anywhere in the world. And the special person that's drawn to the Haydash Berry is Anne Francisco. The kind of person that's drawn to San Francisco is the one that I find very pleasant and easy to deal with. And then wanting to live in the Haydash Berry even makes them more special. So you get a real high percentage of the best people in the world. Artists, performers. I have a big flat that's got four bedrooms. I was raised with four sisters. I always have female roommates, so I have three female roommates now. And they're all the smartest, the most beautiful, talented. It's just, you know, the percentage is real high. I can so see why you're part of this. And you contribute so much real quickly because we don't have a whole lot more time. I'd love to see some photos of some more of your work. You're quite an artist and contributed so many different ways, not only through this. Well, this flame that I invented. Now, this is a picture of the Summer of Love. We did this wonderful prank with Lely Gravy. He was up on stage. And people had this woman come from backstage with her tool belt, microphone, that old kid saying, wait a minute, there's a guy out here who's waving his earth flag. And he's in the way. We've got a lot of people shooting today. It's a video moment, it's a film. And we had him put down the flag and waving and going, no, no, I like the earth flag. Why don't we leave that out? Anybody else could go on and on. Oh, anybody else agree with me? And another flag would come up here and another flag would come up there. And pretty soon we just filled this guy with these flags because it's just like a little walking stick with a bag. And so every cliche logo since the 60s was on the flags. We had, you know, the little Ricky Daisy, the peace sign, women's power, black power, all of the different things that have happened. We had like 40 different flags. Amazing. And that's partly what it looks like. And then the Phoenix came out and they would put up a giant earth flag. Wow. A real tall pole, right? And we were waving at such a good time. Let's see a few more photos. I would love to see them. Yeah, my pink tonkas. This is a picture of what I call a honky tonka. It's the Tibetan goddess, green taran, goddess of compassion. You painted that. Well, this is a liner for a friend of mine, Volkswagen. Oh, okay. It's Bob on a recliner. Great. The cushion of the gods. That's where I'm going. This is a design that I made for the Haydashbury Free Clinic. I had to start. That's great. What year is this one? All right. This was in... Eighties? Well, ninety-four or something like that. But when they first started out and Dr. David was doing it, I was doing all things. You know, I'm kind of like a background of that. Sure. That's David Smith, yes. Yeah. And I'm helping them start the Haydashbury Free Clinic and pushing it over the years, helping them raise money and different things like that. Doing their decorating. Yeah. You know, Bob met at the show's very worthwhile organization. This is very unique to the Haydashbury as well. Yeah. And I take things. What's this one? I take found art and make them into other things. Sure. No hitchhiking sign from Wyoming. And I pulled over to the highway and I thought this would be a no-oppression. Yeah. Now, you turn it upside down. That's the trick. It used to be this way. But if you turn it upside down, a little black stripe, that means no oppression. No oppression. This is one just when Wave of Gravy was up at Laytonville for Earth Dance. Yes. And Mickey Hart broke the record for the largest drum circle. This was the drum that I made for Wave of Gravy. He's got all his friends beating his drum around the side. And that's him with his amazing face. That's amazing. That's amazing. Wonderful. Yeah. This will give you an idea of the size. It's just a little hand drum. But it's got all of his friends around the outside. It's got Jerry, who's probably pumped more into his amazing life. Right. At the top. But it seemed to have Bill Graham down there giving you a finger. That's great. I mean, you've worked so many events and you've probably had hard work with Bill Graham. You worked with Chad Helms. You've worked supporting many people who try to give people a great experience to lift them from whatever, wherever they are. Yeah. Have a little hand street booster. I think, you know... Music and art can raise awareness. We have about two minutes left and we will be calling you back. But I wanted to ask you, if you could capture one moment in your life, one moment real quickly, share one moment. Or just that moment between 1966 and now that little... That little... Every year. If you could put one word to a young person that would see this tape in 50 years, what would you say? In 50 years? In 50 years this tape is being archived. I'm really sorry about George Bush. I didn't know that he was going to do that. If I would have known that, I would have kept it a lot harder. But... I want to thank you so much and the true spirit of the Koshary. How do you say the clown? The Koshary. Koshary. We end with a true laugh and I want to thank you so much being a member of this community and sharing with you a pinch of your life because I know there's somebody for you. They would let me live here. That's the first thing that dawned on me in 1966 and I saw a crazy person on the street and I was thinking like a Minnesota that locked that person out. Right. And the camera was just shocked. He said, What? She's not hurting anybody? She's just crazy. And I went, This is my home.