 as it currently is. Same thing happened. So the vote board, it is what it is, we'll live with it, but I think that you really, I'm going to say ruin board 8, but I think the students that probably better start at the NPA meetings of campus. So make a one observation, please. I think our, the battle has been, this agreement has been pitched between one and eight. The battle, the disagreement should be with the Hill section because they have kept their boundaries. They have not taken on students that eight and one have. They have pretty much kept theirs intact with resident voters, not student voters. So those are the ones who aren't yielding any ground. And then I think we go back to the mayor as well was not yielding on the structure that he wants that really does disenfranchise both our roads to leave us with the majority of the students. Well, I just want to, I think that's a great answer. Thank you. I just wanted to observe that we've been involved, board 8 has been involved in this for over a year. And it's been really very stressful for us because we've not had anybody that really wanted to listen. We had some counselors that we're starting to and I think with. And the one thing that we, I think the most important thing we saw right here was that board 1 has not really wanted to move UDM healthy more soon, never really pushed that. And they've really always been against development. And so the other parts of the city like wordy has taken on the students. And I have 42, 250 students across the fence from where I live. And I read somebody from that place they did for more more students on Trinity College campuses really going to be an impact on them. Well, let me tell you, I'm much closer to them and they're far more quiet and engaged in learning than the students on my street where we have supervised and managed it regularly without any supervision from security. I guess we should afford, maybe we could afford it. Yes, and we should try to afford security forces for our streets. It's like we would watch. I guess what I, what I also would say is that word 8 and word 6 is word 1 kind of choose to pair with. Word 6 work with Champlain College to house their students, students in college managed housing. So they have over 90% of their students in college managed housing, whether it's storms, whether it's health, it's when they have a food fight. So I don't think, I think word 1 is forgetting that word 6 was much proactive earlier on and putting it in, putting this Champlain College students into, into what we have and, and supporting the blocks and the commons, et cetera, that they were built for students. I didn't, I, as a word 1 participant, never heard them really arguing for word, for student development, student housing in board 1. As a matter of fact, it was always the opposite. Right from the first day I went to the NPA when they were arguing about, we don't want river watch there, we don't want, we want that to be wilderness. I had heard that arguing against development word 1 for years. And, and now they're complaining about having students in their board. If they don't have, if they don't have more student housing on campus in their board, it affects not just their board, it really affects, we're buildings. And the worst, and I was here during the time when we had urban renewal. The Batting Street, that area, where it was all torn down, we have all those hotels, et cetera. Those houses were nice houses, just like the houses between college and parole and maybe Lupus. And in 20 years, I suspect we're going to talk about, we have a deteriorating housing stuff, we only have a deteriorating housing stuff, because we are not, we don't have a vision to put students on campus, mostly from out of state, and put middle class young people who want to start a career in parole, to live where they don't have to drive to work. We're going to have net zero carbon, which is I think lonely, because the more they allow students to come to UVM and UVM puts them in the city, we have more cars. Yeah, so I, according to you, and UVM has outsourced all of their housing in Berlin today, it's downtown, and you know, it's wonderful to be part of a college town, it's dynamic, it's beautiful here. Not on our street, it's maybe beautiful at the lake, but where we live, it's beautiful. I know, I know. And so I did meet with Joe Spidel at UVM in December, late December, and I was very clear that UVM does need to make more housing, and it needs to be better quality. It needs to be so exciting than juniors and seniors want to live there, as well as graduate students. And so Joe did say that Trinity could be that. And I do believe that Trinity is, depending on how this unfolds, I do believe that MOU is essential because I do know the UVM has admitted a record number of freshmen, it was passed here. And we don't want UVM, I mean, Trinity to be built simply as a way for UVM to admit even more freshmen and not deal with some of the housing problems in the downtown area, especially at grade eight. But it's essential that the university address the housing issue. And I do know also that around the country, the number of applicants to colleges is going to drop precipitously. And this has to do with the fact that the children of the baby boomers have gone through college. And I know that small colleges are really struggling with this. And I wonder if that's what you said that I've been next to you here. They've said that every year. The last 10 years, they've increased their enrollment by 2000. This is the time when they were going to lose it. Now, they say they have 63... You want us to show that to them? Yeah, huh? Not yet. I don't know if they can see it. They say they have 63, they say they have 6,397 beds for students. But they have 11,176 students. So what is that? Four to five thousand difference. And we, the neighbors, are picking that up. Yeah, I agree. This has to be dealt with. Everybody says they agree, but who's going to do it? Well, City Council does have a little bit of leverage right now with zoning for Trinity campus. And I'm not exactly sure what I can tell you and why I can't tell you because of the letters that I received via email. But it's in the process. And I recognize that that MOU is really the only leverage we have with regard to the way Trinity is developed. But I do think it could be an exemplary development that showcases UVM's environmental mission. It could be passive solar. It could be completely connected to electric buses, public transportation, electric car share. This could be so good for the university. And it could also be really wonderful for us in Word 8 and Word 1. Yeah. But the numbers don't add up. If they're increasing the enrollment by the time they build that campus, that's the number of students extra they'll be adding each year compared to now. So it's really, it's not even in that game. Yeah. Well, I know the university is building housing for graduates. They do have graduate students. Yes. And they also have graduate housing for Ethan Allen. And I guess it's technically Colchester. Well, the best. But I do believe that the way that we conduct negotiations with the university as a community, this is the start. And this is where we began to make our needs really paramount to this, you know, this collectively beneficial decision or decisions that need to be made. And so maybe Word 1 and Word 8 could work together on some of the asks, the requests. And I know this has been going on for a long time, but you've got a lot of cooperation and work on this side, didn't it? So I do believe that the student issue has really fractured and divided Wards 1 and 8. So a lot of animosity aimed at the other ward and, you know, from negotiating on the map and redistricting with other counselors. But the fact remains that we do need to collaborate and cooperate on these and other issues because our, you know, our homes, our lifestyles, our communities depend on it. And I'm so glad that Tim is here because he's getting a sense of what some of these incredibly important issues are for all of us. We want to live in vital, thriving neighborhoods without being woken up by fireworks every night. But it's more than that. It is about a relationship between the city and the university. It's not about student behaviors. It's about what's the priority for using limited housing stock? Is it, is it to house students from out of state for a couple of years, or is it to house young people who will start off a career, a family in the city, and maybe move out? What we're seeing is you're seeing a lot of fertile farmland in South Burlington, Shelburne, Colchester, Williston, all being taken up by the building blocks. Now, some of those people, there was an order to be built. But when you see all the housing in Ward 8, that's beautiful old homes, it's, and they're being, they're just being taken advantage of by the students, so they need a place to stay. Then to me, that is, that, that just does not seem like we are thinking environmentally sustainable, sustainability. We are just thinking about making a profit. Right. And that's why the Trinity campus, I think, is so important because right now, there's a limit to how high the building can be. But when the zoning, and I think it should change, the building should be much taller, it should house more people in an efficient way, so that housing downtown does open up for other people. I believe that. So let's move the conversation along a little bit, give other people a chance to talk. Do any of the other attendees want to jump in here on issues that are important to them, or what's on your mind, or questions for our soon to be electors, or what are you, when you're pre-electro, pre-electro, made you wait. You're doing great. Which are you? Go ahead, Linda. No, no, I'm saying you're doing great, bringing up a lot of issues. Romeo, how does this end up? Yes, we see you. Yes. So I have a question for the new candidates. My issue has a lot to do with trust building in the city, and trust building between the BIPOC community and the judiciary system, what your thoughts are on that? Yeah, hi Romeo. It's nice to meet you. I'm super early in this process, and from my perspective as a candidate and as someone who's hoping to earn everyone's support in March, for me, trust building has to start on an individual level. It's really the only way I know how to do things. I'm not a politician, I've never run for office before, and so when I told myself, when I decided to run and sat down with my spouse and decided to run, was that I was going to spend a lot of time listening and as little time as possible talking, and together with that was really going to sort of open myself up as a community member and invite people that I met while I was sort of campaigning, although I have to tell you, maybe I shouldn't tell you this, even just saying the word campaigning feels weird and uncomfortable to me because I'm not a campaigner, I don't think. So in order to build trust, at least on my end, what I plan to do is I plan to make myself as available as I possibly can and give people the opportunity to call me, to text me, to come by my house if you can stand dealing with three children and the dog and a huge aquarium full of fish, no chickens anymore because the fox ate them all, but maybe chickens again in the spring, and sit down with me and sort of talk to me about where people are in the city in terms of their lives, in terms of their needs, in terms of their questions, and really just listen. And that's the only way I know how to do this. It's the only idea I have to do this and that's my plan for sort of building trust is to say to you, Romeo, and everybody, here's where I live, here are my values, here's what I'm hoping to do on the city council, please get to know me and make a good decision. And if I can jump in here, I think suggestions for me and for Tim are entirely welcome. I'm a mixed race person and it is astonishing what is going on. I do feel that the police department needs to reflect the community. There need to be more people of color, there need to be more police men, police women, you know, gender is also part of this mix, and there needs to be diversity within the police department. The issues of grace are coming up every day, it seems, and there are serious issues that need to be improved. We have the opportunity here to create the most contemporary police department that is maybe a leader in the nation and one that suits the needs of our community. But the issue of racial bias is coming up so often that it has to be addressed and any suggestions, any ideas to make this transition better as the police force is being rebuilt I think is essential. The community needs to weigh in on this and we have this opportunity to create the right kind of, you know, anti-racist, egalitarian, just society right here. I do believe that. Yeah, I agree with that completely. At least even just speaking for myself, you know, I don't even need suggestions. I would like to just get to know people, I'd like to get to know you Romeo, I'd like to get to know everyone and just hear about what your life is like here in Burlington and, you know, for me it would be, you know, and like I said, let you get to know me because it's really important that I learn, you know, I learn the dynamic between one and word eight. I have not, you know, been part of this redistricting process. So learning about this dynamic and learning about the obvious challenges and then certainly, you know, I need to be a listener and not a talker about these issues of racial equity and inclusion with the version. It's a value that I hold but I am no expert on it. And Kim Carson in the racial equity inclusion at the longing department, she's new too. She's, you know, she's amazing. I'm on the committee, REIB committee. And so much of what we're doing now is collecting ideas and information, especially with regard to young new American males and gun violence. This is a real problem. And, you know, we've heard from parents from different countries. It's Congo, Nepal, Bhutan, that something is happening for these young people in the school system. And people have pointed to prior trauma in refugee camps as possibly an element. Cultural shock, culture shock, you know, coming to this country not speaking a language and being dropped in the middle of a cold climate and maybe not having access to after school programs or a sense of belonging, a sense of community, something is happening. And we're working on it. And Kim Carson is just unbelievably good. But this is a real problem and it does appear to be about race. But I would remind everyone, it's about culture. You know, this is language is huge. Customs are huge. It's about food. It's about, you know, respect. Many parents have been complaining that their children go to high school here and come home and are not respecting them in a way that would be appropriate in their country of origin. So this is truly affecting Burlington. Root causes are important. We're trying to figure out how to approach a lot of this. So if nobody objects, if I have a word, I'll be more than willing if anybody else wants to say something, please speak up. Romeo, you used the word trust and I agree entirely. But I think the trust between constituents and their elected officials is not very much taken seriously in the city of Burlington. Ward 8 has gone through four city councilors. Either we've had shortened careers on the city council or a quick and one of them quit and lived in Boston and everybody knew she was in Boston and then she attended NPA meetings as if she was here. Honestly aside, the trust between the politicians in Burlington and the residents of Ward 8, I don't see it. We hear and listen. We have been very forthcoming about our needs, our desires and to get a progressive city councilor to even talk to us over the last three or four years. Good luck with that. So yeah, I'm big on trust. Everybody says we should trust them when it comes time for elections, but once you're in office, it's luck not trust. So that's a sore point with me as you can tell. And I'm probably just a cranky old guy. But you were asking about fundamental problems here in Burlington and I think that the disconnect between what's talked about in campaigns and what actually happens when people want to solve problems, make changes, work together, care for each other is secondary to what the political establishment in Burlington and Vermont thinks that they want to push at that present time. So that's enough out of me. Right. I definitely concur what you're saying and I think it's a pretty legitimate statement. Another point that I wanted to make briefly was somebody who works at Greenmount Transit. I am daily exposed to a lot of overdoses, folks overdosing drugs at the Transit Center. People fighting, people threatening each other all the time and all that stuff. And as you can tell at the parks, there's been a lot of shooting and all that stuff. And I didn't have the privilege of meeting Maya while she was running for office. But I just wanted to find out what the council is doing on that direction in terms of addressing the gunshots, the underlining issues, the overdose issues that are still chronic in the city. Because we do get a lot of folks who are really having bad times out there and then they show up at the Transit Center and they just they say they don't use the restroom. But all they want to do is just keep shooting those drugs all the time. But, you know, we can keep calling, you know, the ambulance all the time. But at the end of the day, I'm wondering what are the city leaders doing addressing these issues or who are they working with in terms of reaching out to these folks in what they're doing in the city and if they're getting the appropriate help to make sure that they don't continue to keep overdose in the city. And as a result, end up shooting somebody because they're overdosed or they're pissed off about something while under the influence. I said a letter recently to the city council members asking what the protocol was as I walked at one third in the afternoon on Riverside Avenue and somebody had a bus stop with where children get on the bus to go to school was shooting heroin in their pajamas that were halfway down his butt. And I said I don't really think he wasn't in medical emergency I would have engaged but he wasn't. Do I call at least what social work is going to answer that who what's the protocol what should we do when we see that Ward 8 people have openly using drugs in Ward 8. You can call it in they tell you there's nothing they can do about it. And the city council here wants to, you know, get elected on the basis of, you know, we're going to be fair to everybody. You know, those kids shouldn't have to see that. But I as a citizen who am concerned, I don't know what to do. And when I ask, nobody responds. We are here on that committee. Which committee is that the equity and inclusion. Yes, so I think what Romeo's asking about is different. And it is about um policing and enforcing ordinances. There shouldn't be any open drug use, but there is a lot. I can tell you that money has come through for the first time for the Cahoots program. And this is a coordination between officers of the relative police department and mental health professionals and addiction specialists. And this is this is the model for our police department is to have health for people who need it and appropriate health. And if somebody is on drugs, an armed officer is not necessarily the right person to intervene. And so there is there's a new concept about how different situations need to be dealt with because right now the police department is very shorthanded. And because it's so small and understaffed, we're seeing problems like the breaking news of Riverwatch meeting private overtime Burlington police people to stay in their complex between 11 o'clock and 7am in the morning, you know, hired by the community. So the first step I really believe is to rebuild and increase the size of the police department. But while we're doing that, making sure there's excellent training and to have an amazing group of men and women who understand that drug addiction is different from, you know, other a crime, you know, where somebody stealing something from downtown or raking into someone's home. So it's about recognizing and acknowledging the different kinds of things that are going on. And having the appropriate size, you know, group to deal with all the issues right now Burlington basically has been identified as a viable market for drug dealers. And this is very sad, but it's true. And City Hall Park and the bus station are teaming with people openly using and selling drugs. And we need to, times have been hard these past couple of years, we need shelter, people are hurting, people have lost jobs. And for some they turn to drugs and they feel better. But we've got to create a society in which laws and ordinances are enforced where people feel safe in their own homes. If you leave your home, you shouldn't have to assume it's going to be broken into. Students who have bicycles shouldn't have to, you know, have them be stolen the moment it's left outside. And people who are suffering from addiction and mental health issues, they need help. So it's not a handout. It's about taking care of our society and establishing a system where people can get what they need, what they need, but also so that we minimize crime, we minimize drug dealing. I feel very strongly about this and, you know, fentanyl is cheap and it's being put in everything so that people become addicted very quickly. There's got to be drug education to kids in elementary school and middle school and high school. Kids need to be able to protect themselves from predators who are creating businesses off of people's lives. Vermont is no longer immune to serious drug trade and we need to take action on this. Romo, you have your hand up. Or did I just not put your hand up? Yes, yes. I had just one more. Mayor, as I believe put forward Acting Chief Marat, I believe again. And I was wondering, Mayor, what your thoughts are and I've had the privilege of meeting the Acting Chief and we had a, you know, pretty discussion this past Christmas, which I felt reassured. But I was wondering what your thoughts are if he's going to be nominated soon or if you guys will just wait until Ward 8 is filled before we have a permanent acting, permanent chief for the department or if the council will forfeit that responsibility to the community to solicit from the community anybody who has the credentials and background of law enforcement as well as community, you know, strong background, community leadership as well to take that post. What are your thoughts on that aspect? So I'm going to intercede here. I think that the city council has plenty of time to speak their voice on Monday nights and through political campaigns and I would like to hear from Ward 8 people on their opinion of Chief Marat and how that maybe the city should think about the least. Romio, what is your idea? Romio, what is your idea? Oh, for me, I tend to look through the based on merit situation rather than the individual. I feel very reassured by my conversation with him and what he submitted. But I needed to have more information as a Ward 8 resident. But I suspect it'll be prudent to give him a chance to see where what his leadership will look like at the top of the hill, as it were. But based on my conversation with him and what I've seen he's doing as an acting chief, it looks very promising. But then that's just me. Everybody's different on their views regarding him and see if we need somebody else to take over that post. Linda, Maddie, or Lauren, I've heard you all speak about this. Do you feel like speaking tonight? Go ahead, Linda. Well, I can just say I haven't really been thinking about this much. But I think that the oversight committee might not like that citizen oversight committee, which is supposed to maybe happen with some ballot thing, which I don't think is really appropriate for Burlington. I don't think it's a good system. But I feel like, you know, if there are issues, I've heard great things about Murad and I've heard some bad things too. And I just feel like his boss is the mayor. Is that correct? You know, that there's maybe some supervision, if there are supervision issues, if there's issues, maybe they could be taken handled at the supervisory level without having to create a whole massive other governmental functions or, you know, citizen groups and so forth. I'm not saying citizen groups shouldn't be involved. But I'm not. And I think you have to have input from the citizens to to learn what people's experiences are. But should they make human resource decisions? You're asking me if if this, what are you asking if who should make committee committee citizens should have? No, I don't think that's necessarily something I don't think that would. I don't think that's a good solution. We do have to remember at the end of the day that we, you know, there is some repairs that need to be made between the police, the police off police office, I guess, and the community. And I think the relations are strange right now and it's easy to point fingers at, you know, the progressives voted to cut the police department and now we have this rampant crime problem. But at this point, we can't point fingers anymore. And I think what needs to be done and what I'd like to see our chief do is provide a way that community relations will be healed between the community and the police department. And that's kind of, I've heard chief or acting chief speak a few times, but that would be something that I would like to hear and kind of to Linda, what you were saying, I think there are ways that we can repair this. Like there's, it's a multifaceted issue. And I do think the community needs to weigh in because different pop, there's a lot of different populations of people. We in Ward 8 know that for certain with being a big student ward, but also a longtime resident ward. And there are different priorities. So I think it is important for the community to weigh in. Maddie, anything you want to add? You're muted. I realize that. No, I don't know. I'm sort of burnt out on the whole redistricting thing. And I put a lot of energy into it. Didn't go the way I wanted. And so I'm pretty discouraged. So I think my activism is hugely diminished, you know, to work on something for that long and have it be totally not what you want is very discouraging. So I guess I'm just listening right now. Cause I, as I said, I put a lot of energy into that. It was a way to organizational standpoint that it needs strong leadership. It needs professional standards. It needs community support. It needs the police union to not be threatened, but to understand that they're part of the solution. I think it needs a certain step up from the cities, the citizens of Burlington to accept the police and hold them to a high standard. It's not on an oversight board of a politically selected group of people who are going to fix this problem. It's a very big problem and it's going to require things that need to be in place. Acting directors are not really going to be able to command the respect for the community or the police to force. If you're not going to hire a bureau, I'd get somebody else. So it's been going on for two years. I don't understand that. But I think that we all want good policing. We want appropriate behavior of the police. We want them to be part of the solution to the issues in Burlington that citizens can't stand. I can't make an arrest on Riverside Avenue. So I guess I feel strongly about this. I'm tired of hearing about all the, you know, all, we go round and around and around. And hopefully our next city council people and we'll be able to come to a solution. We need an action plan. You know, I think we can't wait till the wind blows a different way. And all of a sudden we have more progs than Dems and we get a different outcome. I think we're too far in. The political stuff has not really served us well in this issue. I'd like to ask me. Yeah, go ahead. I think Romeo asked you, you think you're going to be doing some voting on police chief before? Yeah, I do know about that. Thank you for asking. It's a little complicated because if interim police chief Mirad is voting on to become acting police chief Mirad, soon he would come up again in June. And that would be the yearly point at which he would have to be voted on again for another yearly appointment. So I believe that I did speak with chief Mirad and like you, we had an excellent conversation. He was very responsive. He seemed very dedicated to better relations with the city and improving the numbers of sworn police officers. He has people in police academy now. And I was really, I was hardened by what he was saying. And he himself indicated that he would like for the vote to wait until June when he comes up for his annual reappointment. And I understand the benefits of doing that as opposed to having voted in, having new people win elections in the March election and then having another vote go another way than a reappointment. It is a lot of voting coming up. So he seems he seems very aware of the issues. I do, I just want to say that I think one large obstacle to good relations in the city throughout the city regarding the police is the police commission is basically trying to force chief Mirad to admit to racial bias in the police force before moving forward. And of course, if someone is trying to force you to admit to racism in order to then move forward, that that's, that's not really a cooperative way to work. And I understand chief Mirad's reluctance to make an announcement like that under pressure. Yes, so you can understand, we can all understand that in order to move forward, we do simply need to move forward, but the police commission is pressuring chief Mirad, I believe to admit to racial bias within police department before they will sort of step back. So we're going to wrap up any anybody have a want to say a few take another minute and say something so you can speak up. Sam, how we do and think we did well. Sam's easy. I want to thank everybody for coming and I hope that we can Romeo is nice to meet you. I hope to see you at other meetings. And I look forward to all our pre electorates. That right. We'll see each other next. We'll talk about school board. That's one of my other favorite topics. Do we even have anybody anymore? We have any kids and board eight? I don't think so. Wait a minute. We have three. I don't know exactly if we have any. I have to look check my name. I can send you over if you're looking. Go ahead. We have a lot more children. We're not late right now, but they're overrepresented. Right. They're overrepresented and it's good that our taxes are going up. The point is to get more young families in our board. Get more children. And I doubt that we don't love our students and other graduates, but you're leaving it to us. We want our families to be here for a long time. We can't get job. That's another issue. So we'll have more forums on all these topics, I hope. But thanks everybody for coming and it's really good to see you. And Maya and Tim, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.