 Welcome to the working group. Documentation subgroup meeting for May 31st of 2022. And I can put the agenda link in the chat. And please take a look real quick and let me know if there's anything that's been missed. Anything that needs to be added and also please add your name. So that folks know that you were here and then if you weren't here and there was important information. I'm going to add. I'm going to add one agenda item someone internal to red hat. I was looking at our documentation and we refer to a couple of things like vettings. Internal. Working group and suggesting that we should come up with a more formal name for that this vettings and one other one so I'm just going to bring that to the party today so I'll add that into the agenda. Okay, and I added one about this single mode installs. And looking Michael's here so hopefully we can cover that up. All right, go ahead and add those things and. Let's start out Brian with technical documentation. We now have it merged into the main site. Is there any. Yeah, I mean, so I decided instead of working. In my private or personal repo. I think the docs, the community doc should be working progress. It should be a working living documents documentation. So I actually did move it into there. And there's still a lot of information needed there. So, and as Bruce said, just before we started recording, we were having a discussion. And a lot of the repos are really quite difficult for community members. And I would like to bring it upon next week's meeting in terms of do we have an official list of substituted images, because there are various language images and various sort of building images. And so the one I'm looking at is the console. And that's got six Docker files. And they all refer to different images. So just trying to work out what each of them do and say how would I do this outside of the pro system. And it's quite difficult to know. And as Bruce said, it's how do I know that I'm actually doing something that's an equivalent of and producing some it's an equivalent of the official build image. And because I think if you're going to test something and raise a bug or do a pull request, we do want it to be an equivalent image that we're working against. So I've been going sort of around around the houses looking at that at the minute, but I think I am going to need one of the red headers to chime in on that and actually explain. A is the source of the internal images available is a Docker file that they were built from available, if not the actual binary. If not, what are the equivalent community versions of those files that we should be working with. And I'm hoping there's some way we can actually get that into the read me of the project so a community member will be able to pick, pick each project up. And the read me should have a community section ideally how I don't know whether that's going to fly within the red hot product teams. But ideally it would be nice to have a community build section on every repo read me. So I want to bring that up to the main meeting on. Next week. Okay, so one thing that I would suggest is get a list of three examples of things that you are unsure of what the external alternative is. One of the things that came up is, you know, Mike has mentioned this a couple times is that his group and a couple other groups are doing internal external Docker files. And that that would be something that if everyone were doing that. It would be easy to sort of suss out what's happening, as long as you knew where the documentation for the particular project was right and where to file bugs for the particular project. So, I would say pick three things like console is one and then pick two others. And then through that we can sort of flesh out some some some process to documenting these things. Okay, that's unreasonable. Yeah. Okay good. That's reasonable. Right. Yeah, I would probably have a slightly bigger ask. Which is that I think a lot of these things predated the UBI images that red hat has made and it's been promoting. And if the internal images could be based on that then there would be no reason why the base image couldn't be public. Like it may be that it's only historical. Yeah, that's a good question. Let's actually ask that to add that to the list of questions. So if you could, Brian under technical documentation if you could add those bullet points so add the three things and then add Bruce's question, and then I'll transfer that to the agenda for the next meeting. So, list your three things when you get a chance and then for like a second bullet point there put Bruce's question is, are these UBI, or can they be UBI to circumvent any internal external stuff. Anything else on technical documentation. I'd love it if there's some more help. We need to try and encourage people to chip in and cover all aspects including the operators and what's going on. So, there's no reason why, I mean, ideally from from the documentation we should be able to get someone to do a full build of OCD. That's the plan for everything we provide should be enough to give a full build of OCD and it be an equivalent functionality of what the official bill does. That's that's where I'd like us to get to with the technical documentation and the whatever we do to the repose. Alright, is it possible to break down what we need into bullet points so that we can say, hey, we need a volunteer for this particular area of documentation. And this other particular area so that as you've talked about before Brian, making sure that people know what they're volunteering for what we need volunteers for. Is that something maybe you and I can work on over the next couple days. Just look it over and sort of break it down into sections. If he wasn't on vacation. Oh, you're on vacation. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, but I mean, this I do this as a community thing. This isn't working. So I'm allowed to do this on holiday. Well, that's that's up to you. So if I'll take a stab at it and if you, you know, I'll message you, you know, and you can decide to get involved or not. I don't want to take up your vacation time if you're actually enjoying a true vacation. Yeah, I'm probably going to be doing some work on this tomorrow. Thursday, Friday in the weekend, I'm probably going to be doing other things, but. Okay. Alright, let's take a look. There's something like 100 is payloads that you have to build right each with their own separate repositories. So that's. And if you're trying to build the whole thing, I guess you could not clone it, but just, sorry, not fork it, but just clone it. But the way it set up, it would be a bit labor intensive. Yeah, yeah, I did that. Yeah, I understand that side of it, but if we can do it once it means that every piece is accessible to the community. So, so that was the goal. Whether we could actually come up with an all go tecton conflict that would just do it automatically. That would be really cool. Yeah. I'm going to say, in the next working group meeting the full one, we're going to have people from Brian cooks group that's also working on a build process with tectonic and the operate first guys showing up and talking about what it's going to take to do a community hosted and managed build process. And I put another item in there that we'll talk about a little bit. There's a third initiative going on inside of red hat that has some customer facing engineers. So it's very timely, but we can also ask them what's missing, right, and ask them to contribute updates to it as they try and use it. I think if you, if you did this little bit of staging work with that in mind for the next meeting and have a call to action of as you go and try and do this with your new tools and, you know, your new power tools. Take notes. What's missing? What was, you know, what was behind firewalls? What did you have to do the sign into red hat to get a, you know, you know, those kinds of things. And I think there's enough people right now who are focusing on this that if we enroll them to take good notes and journals and make edits as they find this is this is the time. Okay, and context of Ryan, because you weren't at the last main meeting at the last meeting, we actually did have someone from CERN. They've actually done a build of their own. And so, yeah, so they've actually done their own. Right now they have one that's based on four or nine. And so that's who's going to be one of the people who's going to be talking. So, we can compare notes and then find out how to sort of standardize that and then document those a few tweaks and stuff like that. Okay. Do we know, did they do it as a community build or did they cheat and use their red hat subscription to go and pull all the images? I don't know. We'll have to, we'll have to see that's going to. They, they, I'm pretty sure they did the community build process. Oh, wow. They are okay. The people, they are not OCP people. And I don't think they have a. But I don't want to, I don't want to hypothesize. I want to like, I don't know for sure questions. I'm pretty sure everybody that's around has a developer key. You know, which, even though it's expired 60 days with OCP still works. I imagine at least it works to down to download the. CRC local, whatever that is. Yep. Yeah, because I could I checked out that that one still works. I'm trying to find the source repository for that because it doesn't seem to be the same one that Char was using before. But with the 5 minutes that I've tracked looking with that. I may just not find it found it. I mean. I seem to have somehow this bipolar relation with CRC because of my level of caring is very low. But every now and then I poke at it and see whether or not I can get it to work. Well, we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens with that. All right. So is that it for a technical documentation? Okay. All right, let's move on to repository move timeline and steps. There's now a discussion item for it. And basically we said July 1st. And so we just need to fill in the steps in this discussion of what steps do we have left before we can just move things over to the new repo. So let's fill that in async over maybe the next. Now in the next meeting and then go through them. At the next meeting the steps be sure that we are have it covered who's doing what with that. And then we should be on target then to for July 1st to move things over July 1st ish. Any questions on that any questions on the on the repo move. So the big investigation to happen is what's the best way to for the main OK D one. So we don't lose any of the discussions is I think if you fork, then you don't take the discussions with you. But I think if you transfer ownership and actually transfer into the new org, I think everything will go with it. So I think unless anybody knows that's an investigation item to be done. Yeah, so I would add that to the list then for sure of something. Yeah, that's that's my one big unknown. I think I'm I've thought about it and I think everything else I'm quite happy that we all know when we can do that's the one big because we don't want to lose all of the discussions and the issues history and all of that. On the OK D1 worker. Okay, any any more feedback on that on the repo transition. All right, let's definitely work async on that and I'll remind folks. You know, maybe towards the end of this week to be sure that we're filling in the various steps there. Let's now walk through the survey. Let's just do this, get it done and ship it out. Like maybe the end of the week or something we just we've been sitting on this for so long. The only feedback we got so far was what version are you using and that that needs to be edited to to include. And I will. I can add. Do we want to drop for 3 and 4 for and just shift these down. Perhaps, or do we want to ask our people using for 3 and I've not heard of anyone using for 3. Not in a long time. Do you want to share your screen and just walk through it on this in the screen so that people watching maybe. Yeah. I haven't looked at it in a while. You see the survey. Yep. All right. Okay, so this is the user survey. And these the first question is what version of OK D are you using. Do we want to go all the way down to version for 3 or because I don't even know is for 3 even available still on the. On the site on the releases. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know anybody for 5 or lower. I don't know anybody. I know we still have some customers using. 3.x that we're. And holding it seems like anyone that started using for is at 4, 6 or higher. Yeah, so why don't we do that and then leave the add the other. They are so. 7 or 6. Okay, how's that. Looks good to me for the 4 is the earliest release on the release site. It is okay. Anybody's using. Yeah, but it's all beta. And can you make this question required? So there's a little required slider there at the bottom underneath lower, lower, lower, lower, lower, lower. There you go. Now, this is a radio though. It's not check boxes. Oh, no, it is multiple choice. Okay, good. Oh, wait, does multiple choice allow for multiple selections or does that have to be check box? I don't know. It's usually check box. It's usually check box multiple radio buttons usually is 1 only. Right. Yeah. Check boxes means you can select multiple. Yeah. Okay. Because people might have multiple versions. Yeah. What is the biggest challenge you face using okay D today? Yes. No. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. The critical features is a great question. The how many people question is an interesting but a hard one to answer. I mean, would it be easier to say how many applications or clusters as do you have deployed like a num, like something that's a tangible thing they can go and look up the stat. I think with that one, the assumption is that they're using on a commercial basis. I know a lot of people use okay D in their personal capacity. So, maybe rather than people, not that people developers aren't people, but how many developers because maybe they're people might miscontrued as you have an application and you have 10,000 end users. Right. Yeah. I mean, I mean, it might be just a good question, a good question to ask. Are you using it in a personal or a business context? How are you use? How about as an open ended question? How are you using? Okay. Or do we want to break it into a multiple choice check boxes of commercial or like, I don't know what we would come up with for that. Like, what are the, what are the different uses so personal. Well, I think I don't know. I think the thing that I really want to know is, are you using okay D in production? Like, I want those people to pop out. Okay. So development production. Anything else? Let's add a new question. Where do we want this question? Do we want it to be, I feel like jumping down. It sort of jumps to ask the biggest challenge. Like, I feel that should be further down. Like, and that questions about usage should be of like, who's using it and how it should be further up. Does that make sense? I agree with that statement. Yep. So how do we want to change the how many people or do we want to add up above? I don't really care about the how many people I care about how they're using it. How are you using okay D. And this would be check box. We're saying develop development platform. Yeah, development. Yeah. Development, maybe development slash sandbox. Okay. Yeah. And do you want to separate the personal versus or home lab? Yeah, because I think I like that. I think if someone says that, yes, it's in production, but it's running my home automation system. That's slightly different from I'm using it work within my employer and it's running a production workload. So how about those, those three and then add another. So an option for add other. Okay. Do we want this required or no. I would, I would require all of them, you know, just, and just not ask a lot, like maybe have five questions. I think all the checkbox ones checkbox ones can be required. If you have to type something in like what's your biggest issue. Someone might say, I don't really have a biggest issue. So they may not want to answer that one for all the checkbox ones. There are definite answers. So I think we can require them all. Okay, how are you using okay D. How many people in your company are using. Do we care how many people like I don't I always felt like this question was kind of problematic because what if it's just you I don't want someone to feel like they're less. Yeah, so just kill that. Okay. Good, good, good, good critical features. How about I think we should if we're actually, if we're asking operators, I feel like this is more of a. We're asking about what they're doing, right. Documentation. Let's see what optional operators which operators are currently missing and we've raised this differently maybe which operators. Would you like to see or something like that or. Are we asking what red hot operators. Would you want to see in the OCD catalog is that the question we're actually asking here, or is it a more general open. And is there a product that there isn't an operator for that you want an operator for. So, as well, I think that the way the way OCP is promoted. There are some things which are in fact operators but are promoted as part of the package. So, like serverless pipelines. What else. Maybe it's like things. I don't know. So, but some of those people might not think of as missing operators. So how do we want to do? Do we want to break this down? Do we want to say which operators. Which, which operators would you like to see on OCD that are not currently available or something like that? I like that phrasing. But I think there is some. Is this different from what critical features do you need than are not available in OCD. Yes, because there may be something very wise. There might be. Yeah. There could be a lot of things other than operators that are missing from OCD or. That we're not even seeing. Is there so. Okay. We want operators after, well, hold on, let me, let me. Do we want to ask critical features before we ask about operators or after we ask about operators? Let's at least start at that high level. I think where I'm having a difficulty understanding what we're actually asking is. Is this in relation to OCP or OCD in general? I think just, I think personally, I think just in general, because some folks may not really be thinking of, oh, that's an OCP operator. Or that's versus the, oh, I need this community operator or whatever. Some people might not understand the operator ecosystem. And I'd actually be willing to bet that a significant number who are using OCD. Just based on chat and emails and stuff that we see. Probably don't have the sense of the ecosystem. We, we have internal knowledge. Yeah, because we've. Yeah, because then we can make that determination. Right. I think once we look at the responses. Okay. The, the other thing I'll be devil's devil's advocate here is true. If we're asking. It suggests that we may be able to influence the addition of that feature. Well, if this is an anonymous, we could turn it around and say, hey, you want to work on that with us. Because I mean, also at the end of the day, we've got to think that we are based on OCP. So we can't go and add huge features that this would then become an OCP feature request. Right. And then we, but we can then feed it up the food chain and say, hey guys, look. One of the things that's missing for me is that there is no gatekeeping on OCD. So I have no idea how many people out there are using OCD in production. So the one thing that I is critical for me to get out is some semblance of account of people who are, you know, willing to say stand up and say they are using OCD in production. Because that's, you know, as we fight for engineering resources, that's kind of 1 of the. That's the thing I face every every conversation. Okay, that's useful to me. Okay, so back to my top level question. Do we want to ask about people features before or after we ask about operate. I would ask before and I would remove critical and just ask what features. Which features do you need that are not available in OCD today? Right, that's on right folks. Yep. All right, so which features. All right, so pulling that one up. And then we ask about which operators are using now, which operators would you like to see in okay. Whoops. In OCD, which are not currently available. What's your biggest challenge you face using OCD today. I think that's a good question. Yeah. How helpful is the OCD documentation for achieving your goals. I think that's a good one. Which documentation. Leave it open you think I think leave it open and then we can follow back up or maybe. That might be the biggest challenge and they may go back up and say the biggest challenge is finding documentation. Should we then ask for a question below that that's like, if you answered such and such above, can you provide more details or something like. I think it's getting too long is what I would say is those too many questions here. We want people to actually do that. And then they can have additional content. I love the welcoming one. I think that's a great question. And I would keep it just like that. I think it's great. Do we want to ask about, well, code ready containers slash open shift local or no. So what I would do is I would change that to say, do you use OCD on one option code ready containers. No. Single node. Yeah. And I would even throw in micro shift. I know that sounds a little nutty, but like to see where people are playing here. What would I say configurations. Okay, the in any of the configurations code ready containers. No. And check boxes again. What else I would I would like to add in micro shift here. I know it. People are micro shift and would we say home labs here. Or is that I think that's the same thing. I mean, you could have a whole lot earlier. I mean, the, I mean, the one thing that might be useful here is to try and get a feeling. Whether people are on bare metal, VMware, or because I know I know we always have the platform question and which are the important platforms that we need to test on and how would it be okay if we put. I feel like platform is a slightly different question than configuration. Yeah. Is it pushing it to have just one more question up above. Not at all. Not at all. I had to just, I'm happy to do that. I actually think we could actually combine the crit the features and the operator question is going back to what you said. We could actually remove it if we're looking to make it shorter. We could actually get rid of the operator question because that will be covered in the features. Is someone going to think of it. Well, if there's an operator missing, it's missing feature. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, let's get this one down. So platforms, which, which platforms. Do you deploy. Okay, the. Backboxes and we'll say. Bare metal. Bare metal. These fear. Oh, Azure. Okay, so the list in the documentation is I'll leave it to you. Brian, you want to go ahead and add all of those. So what I would say is put in what we know are the top ones and then leave the other option there. Yes. I don't know of anyone that is. I actually, I do know a few people who are Ali Baba people. So. Okay, let's. I know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they don't answer questions. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That's all right. I know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they don't answer questions. That's all good. So, as your Alibaba bare metal. Oh, GCP. Right. GCP. GCP IBM cloud metal. So, how about we just keep it at this and then do other than we've got kimchi. I'm guessing that's overt. It is it, Hang on. Let's leave that list and that's probably going to come up with most everybody. Michael, the overt has gone again. I'm just looking, overt's gone again. I've raised this twice on two previous editions and it's gone again. Well, let's put it back on, let's put it on this list just to make the overt community people happy. That's, that's a great point. Great point. Just, you know. Yeah, we need to work out why he keeps vanishing up with every release. Yeah. All right. And then. And I think. And then, you know. We want to ask, would you like to provide contact information? Yeah. Oh, you're, you're in the world of. Also, it's a privacy laws. If you ask that, because then don't ask it. Don't ask it. You know, because, because there's a whole lot of things where you have to say exactly what you're going to do with it. We don't want to make this access to it. Thanks. All right. So let's, let's go through the description up here. Okay. The, the community distribution of Kubernetes that powers red hats open shift. We would appreciate it if you could take a few minutes to answer some questions to help us improve. The experience. And can we say something about the community like improve the experience and. Expand the community or something. I would almost say, rather than expand the community, but something along the side of our roadmap and help us prioritize our community roadmap. Yeah, I think that's good way. How's that. There you go. And I think we're good and I, you know, we don't want to over edit this or anything. We just want to get this thing out more. There's no seeds to change right here. Where do we want to direct people. Just flash out. Well, why don't we create a discussion item. In the, in the, if each, but what if someone's particular thing. Oh, you mean just the general section. How about if we just point people to the general section. Well, why don't we create and say that if you, if you want to raise additional issues, please, please add an item to our discussion forum or discussion section. That's yeah, that's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Because at least then we're pointing them to the way and showing them where they ask questions. Yeah. And you've given them a link to click on to get through to find us as well. Another yet another link. So how do you want to. The one doctor I'm going to say we therefore can't move. And so we think the survey is done. Don't worry about. Yeah, we'll figure out a way to get around that. Yeah. I can, I can only edit the survey header. And then when people refresh. Yeah. I want to phrase this Brian, you had some language for this beginning part here. How do you want to phrase it. If you have any questions or suggestions. Please. I forgot what I said before. You have any questions, questions or feedback. Please join us in GitHub. It said that again, if you have any questions or or or feedback. Please feedback, please join us or please feel free to join us to. Join the company to feel free to join the conversations with an S on it on. Yeah, there you go. You have any questions or feedback, please feel free to join the conversations on. GitHub. Yeah, that works for folks. Let's go. Let's go through it one more time just. At instead of on you in like that. Yeah. Good man. All right. All right, let's go through this one last time because you know, you never know when you miss something. All right. Which versions of OKD are you using for 1049484746. How are you using OKD own lab development. Sandbox platform production other. Oh, did we want other to capture for the versions. Yeah, someone happens to be okay. All right. Which features do you need that are not available today? Oh, this should actually be a. How about are there any features. That way people because it's not a required question. Yeah. Are there any features. Well, that, that's just a yes no answer though. Oh, how about which. Yeah, but you could phrase it as please, please explain below or something like that. I think it was by the way it is, which features. Which features. Yeah. Which features would you like to see in in OKD that aren't there today. Okay. Features. Would you like to see and OKD. That are not available today. Today. Take the in out available today. Yeah. And do we want to keep the operators stuff or no. Which ones they are currently using versus I mean. I feel like maybe the second question is helpful, but maybe not the 1st 1. I think you can kill the 1st 1 and the reason is that we could do a follow on 1 that was more operator centric once we got this feedback. That's a good point. That's a good one. And hopefully we'll take this 6 months. There you go. Yeah. That's 1 less question. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. What is the challenge of this. I would make the OKD welcoming 1 towards the end. Yes, you're absolutely right. There you go. And then have the additional comments. Okay. Which would you like to see that are not currently. That or which I always forget that are not. Yeah, someone will tell us. Yes. A grammar police police out there somewhere. Should we be moving the platforms and configurations further up then. Yeah, I think, you know, I think they're good where they are. It's a good mix of paragraphs of information and. Going on the US Azure. Their metal GCP overt. Use OKD in any of the following configurations code ready containers. Single mode cluster micro shift other. What could we do to make the community welcoming. Answer any additional comments. Change, change frame this to something. Just a question mark. Yeah, there we go. All right. Are we happy. I am happy for the documentation would want to be too much to ask for explanation. Yeah, go for that. Yeah, ask. It's just saying it's not helpful is not. Not very helpful. Right. So do we want a separate. Question or do we want to just rephrase this question. Let's give them a separate question. An additional comment. If you what would improve. What aspects Michael, how would you. How would you suss out. What if it's product documentation or. I would actually just put a comment. Please provide feedback. In the any additional information set question. Rather than actually adding another question. Okay. As I said, it just keeps it a bit brief. Because we've got that any of the comments of the last question. Haven't we. Yeah, I almost think that if you did one right after the documentation helpful one, you'd get more of a documentation specific thing. And that would be more helpful to Michael. Is there any feedback you can give us on the documentation. Long. And I think one of the things is where we get hit the hardest. Right. So I think that this sort of drilling down just a little bit specifically on documentation. Yeah, helpful. Yeah. How do we make it better? I think it's good. I mean, how can we make it better? How can we make our documentation better? Then we can go on to our next agenda item. Yep. Yes. All right. All right. So we're good with that. Yeah, sure. Right. Fantastic. Okay. And we've got 10 minutes. So we got to sort of burn through this here. Technological repository survey FAQ suggestions. So I'm going to start putting this as a standing item. If you have FAQ suggestions, please add them here. One that we've gotten a lot lately is installing on other OSes and Vadim provided a good response that I think could form an FAQ. So I'll shape that into an FAQ. And then I'm still start toying with language on the release cadences FAQ. So if you have any suggestions, feel free now we're at a future meeting to add things under there. Okay. So no documentation removed from OKD docs discussed here. Brian, did you add that? Yeah, so I noticed that there is a discussion item, which is discussed here, and where it looks like the process of doing a single node install is changing. I think it's going to do with how we do the, we're not going to have the boot bootstrap node. It actually replaces and OCP now has to use the assistant installer to do SNO, which obviously isn't supported. And I'm just making sure that within the discussion because we've actually closed the discussion item or Michael closed it, saying that he actually removed the invalid instructions. I just want to make sure that we've got someone lined up to add the correct instructions or work on what they should be. So is this something that we're going to be relying on the OCP upstream product documentation for the new way? Well, no, that uses the assistant installer and now buddy. I thought I thought there was movement towards. So you can use this assisted installer for local. And that's what that means. If you look in the discuss here, but he's written up how to do it clone the repo and run it locally to do it. Okay. And that's the only way that we can do an SNA and SNO install of OCD using that assistive installer running locally. But we need to write that up. So it's going to be different from the OCP instructions because they point to the website. But I'm just making sure that this doesn't fall through the cracks and someone's actually lined up to actually write that. It looks like. Let's ask at the next meeting for a volunteer to write it up. Yeah. I just want to be clear that we have a lot of stuff that's falling on the shoulders of myself, you, Brian and Bruce. And I just want to be sure that we start leveraging other people. We need. Yeah, folks. I think we need to make the ask for a volunteer to write this at next week's meeting. If you could. I just want to put that I just want to put that back as much as Michael sort of. He's actually taken the bad documentation away, but there was no real action recorded to actually go and write the good documentation. That's right. And I might. Yeah, good. All right, the next two things. Depersonalizing the homelab documentations. I don't have an opinion one way or the other. However, a few people inside of red hat. Notice the other day that we were, we had personalized the two homelab things with Vadim and Shri's name on it and suggested that that might not be best practice or informative enough for someone who wasn't on the in crowd. I just wanted to bring that to this group's attention and think about renaming at least the item and still giving Vadim and Shri credit in the documentation, but I didn't have a suggestion as to what the new name should be. I actually, again, we probably don't have time to go into this. I actually want to actually have a conversation around what they guys should be because they're not quite enough information to let somebody repeat what they're doing. So are the guides just to give an indication of the sort of hardware people are doing, in which case we can make them much more concise and standard, or do we want to go and put what they're doing. And as an example, if I just put into the chat, I know this isn't going to help for recordings. As I'm setting up mine, I'm actually documenting what I'm doing with my own home lab. And the idea is that a, if I need to come back to this, this is going to help me. But B, if anybody else wants to do a similar thing. The construction should be good enough. So I go through my setup the overt set up the hosted workshop and then what I'm working at the minute is the development environment. So all the pieces that I'm going to put on to make my development environment based on okay D at home. So I've taken through, and this is a, this someone should be able to follow this. Now is this what the guy should be, or should it be. What you've got is what I think of as a guide. Yeah. And that's what I think of as a guide, but. So I think we just need clarification of what we want and I know Daniel started leading this project, but it seems to have stalled again. But, but I think it's worth having conversation of what should the guides be. Should they live within the documentation or should we point out to, like I've done my site or other people sites, and just have a sort of a references section or. Or should we move this into the documentation, the community documentation site or. I like having it where it is right now. Maybe as a home, just one thing that is a home lab thing and then have a couple of things there just because it's more having yet another place for people to go is confusing. Yeah, but yeah, but I like, I really like the way you've done yours, Brian. And maybe making beddings and shrees a little more concise. Not this week, but it's just a suggestion that, you know, it was too much an in joke, not an in joke, but in you'd have to know. The team or Sri and naming people specifically. Was was tough. Yeah. I want to, I want to make, I just want to just timing. I really want to make sure I hit on this last point agenda item. Before, so maybe we could think about this home lab stuff, but I just, I just want to make sure I mentioned to you guys this goes. I don't even know how you pronounce this initiative because I want to make sure it gets communicated out to you guys before and this week and at next week's working group meeting. You don't mind because we only have 4 minutes left and I'm sure you'll have what I'm talking about here. So internal to Red Hat, as you might suspect, there's lots of things going on, lots of initiatives going on. And one of them is taking CentOS Stream and creating a closer to REL, CoreOS, CentOS Stream, CoreOS and making it available. And Timothy Revier, who's a regular working on the Fedora CoreOS stuff, is also working on that and he hasn't talked about it out loud. We finally got him to like and get his powers at B to let us talk about it out loud and in the public. And so I wanted to give people a heads up on that on this group call. And then we're going to talk about, Timothy may talk about it a little bit next week, but it is an opportunity for us. And there are some folks working on an experimental sprint inside of building a version of OKD on this as it comes to fruition. So I wanted to say that out loud here so everybody could think about what that means. And the opportunity that it presents for the community to have something in addition to Fedora CoreOS OKD that might be slightly more stable with each release and built and maintained again in the same process pipeline that we were doing Fedora CoreOS. And that is a live initiative now that we can talk about publicly. And it is resourced with three customer facing engineers right now under the same group that Christian Glombeck is in inside. So that is, I think, good news for us. And what I want to start trying to do is see if I can find folks within the OKD community who would test and deploy that thing. Once the sprint is done, which I think probably gets shot for saying anything out loud, but mid-July-ish, we should have this first release of OKD on SCAWS. And I wanted to make sure you all were aware of that, especially Jamie. So it may get delayed a little bit as everything is resource constrained and there's Queens Jubilees and other vacations coming. But I'm trying to time a little bit of more announcements of it around the July 6 London OpenShift Commons gathering, too. And see if people like CERN or John Fortin or other people would have any interest in using this or at least testing it to people who have been complaining vociferously about being on the bleeding edge. So would this be closer to the rail corOS where it's more on the Kubernetes platform rather than a generic operating system? Yes. And you can ask Timothy questions about it next week. Let him say the words first. I've gotten Steve Milner, who's his boss, to tell him that it's OK to talk about it out loud. I don't know how long in duration they've been working on it. Not that long, but it is definitely a viable thing that's going to happen. And I was loath to say anything about it earlier for like it might just drop off the radar as some things do, but it's coming and it should be interesting and of interest to this community, I think. Excellent. Well, let's add that to the agenda. There's also something else that Christian added to next week's agenda. So it sounds like next week's agenda might be packed. I'll reach out to the various people and see if we can get a sense of timing so that everyone can get their time in and maybe get the agenda done ahead of time in a way that allows everyone a chance. Yeah. So I think that's my goal next week is to get CERN to do a little deeper dive so we understand that thing to have, hopefully, Timothy say the word CentOS, COREOS out loud publicly to the working group and to get a sense. I almost was to the point where I wanted to ask that question in the survey, but I'm not ready to do. I don't think we're ready to do that yet until we have a viable experimental release, first release of it. Because I don't want to get people's hopes up too high that it's coming too soon. But that's where we're going. Excellent. And Diane, just, oh, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, no, I noticed that the CentOS stream people have now changed the versions. So there's CentOS 8 and CentOS 9 and no upgrade path between them. So does this one also have a version then? Let's ask technical questions when the technical people are here that are actually working on it. Oh, yeah, but Diane, I just might have heard if they're, you know, let's let's ask technical questions when the technical people are here. Next week. I think. Yeah, next week. All right. Diane, you have 3 items just a reminder research the transition to zoom for meetings to see if red hat wants to help us with that. Change Twitter email address and research Mx record change to the okd.io domains that we might be able to support our own email. Those are all. And I did none of those things. Nope, that's fine. I did none of those. But I will get on them. So. I, that's I expected last week was catch up. So don't worry about. Yeah. All right, folks, any last minute things were just about at time. Just just the 1 for me that was done. The link checking is now the warning only so. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Oh, and 1 more for me, which is that meeting notes are now getting posted. There's a. Meeting minutes are now getting done. There's a 2022. That I'm actually going to start adding them to and then we'll do them by year. And so it'll be the index. And then broken down by year and then within the year. Brian, do you know if it's possible to auto generate pages? Like if, if the doc is just thrown, if the doc is just thrown in there to auto generate the page and add to an index. Like if there's nested. So it'll do it 2 ways. It'll either all auto generate. But once you want to start ordering it, it all has to be ordered. So, so to keep the structure that we've got, we've got to auto, we've got to manually add it. But there's nothing to say that you couldn't actually go into the mk docs and actually add that as a right. Yeah. So as you add a page, you actually go and add the index to mk docs. Okay. All right, folks. Brian, I will look in to see why over it's missing from 410. Okay. Do you want me to raise a ticket or will you just do that and. Yeah, I just. Okay. Brilliant. Thank you. Thanks. This was a great meeting, folks. Talk to you soon. All right. Take care.