 The Finance Committee meeting will come to order at 7-12. Welcome to the November 1st Finance Committee meeting in the community room of the Amherst Police Station. Since this will be the last meeting of the solely appointed Finance Committee under the Old Town Charter, we wish to thank Amherst media for all the years they have faithfully recorded and played the Finance Committee meetings. Many people have commented that they have watched the meetings and find them informative. So thank you Amherst media and all the staff that have contributed their time to recording us. Under the new charter there will be a subcommittee of the counselors who will make up a Finance Committee and further information on that will be provided when they've been sworn in December 2nd and organized themselves. We wish them the best. So on tonight's agenda we have the budget guidelines and what what we've done is we've drafted a set of guidelines. We will review, comment, edit so that they can be sent out this week to the select board, the manager, the superintendent, school committee, the library trustees, and the library director. So why don't we start then on the first page. You see in red I have vinyl because I wasn't sure if this is the final because we do say along the way that there could be changes so I wouldn't want this to be misinterpreted that it can't be changed but in a sense it's our final. So what do people think? Should we scratch that or leave it in? I think you should leave it in since the projections are projected. Okay. Any disagreement with that? All right good. All right then at the bottom of the page we talked about the revenues and then this is a comment that was added this preliminary estimate of new growth. So you can read that and would you like to incorporate that under the bullets? Yes. That was my suggestion just to make it well that really would be there and if we don't do that longer paragraph that you guys put in later that's just a short little addition to say the same thing so I think if you go with the longer paragraph later would you want it there? Would you say if we went with either one of these longer paragraphs later? So then we can wait on this till we get down. We have gone over these many times. The content is what we agreed upon the last time and there's additional information added that was asked for but nothing has been deleted so this has seen a number of revisions in terms of wording and placement and so forth so it reads well for an incoming well after the the three groups read it then for the counselors. Okay so then under under revenue yes. Second to last bullet the budget again provides a $100,000 I don't think you need the A. Oh okay I didn't see that. My copy has a scripted out A. I didn't take it out. Oh you didn't. I probably you know turned everything from red into black print and that just got missed. Okay so then under revenue Tim had some thoughts his was the first thought in red underneath and then I surmise what he was trying to get at and I then rewarded that so you have a choice the only thing that we haven't updated either is the these new developments and their names so we need to know what those names are. So the one in North Amherst is the North Square at the middle district. What's it called? It's called the North Square at the middle district. Is that the district or is that the building? It's complex. You could just say but it identifies where it is I think so that's good. Yeah the middle district is that area North Square. All right so we'll put that in there. What at University Drive? That's the one that's going up right to the south of the Newark and Square. Oh so what do we have a name for that? Do you know Sonya? That's Barry Roberts development. I think they're just calling University Drive a moment. Okay. So in lieu of that I would suggest Sharon's suggestion regarding maybe we're talking locations University Drive Spring Street maybe we don't need the official name. You could just say the middle district. We could say yeah in the middle district or something like that. Okay. That would be close enough. You could say either the middle district or North Amherst. In the North Amherst middle district or something like that. Oh that's good. Spring Street etc. Okay so now you have a choice between what Tim wrote. Obviously the sentence in black stays but then you have a choice of the second one. If you're past it man make a suggestion. Can you say the finance committee strongly suggests that town management revisits the projection included in this. Where are you? In the first fair. Right after this fair. That's my word. Oh I was just going over for the essay we take strongly out. Can I just comment on that? Sure. That's the normal process with your growth. That is really certified by the Department of Revenue. Once David submits all the construction that's going on and everything. So they will actually give us the final number. We always look at new growth. New growth is being worked on constantly. So it's a process. We always start off with $600,000. That's the 10-year average. We've had some outlier years but... Okay. Then with the second would the edit that I put in be more in keeping with what Sonia just said? Well can I talk? Sure. My draft was just a quick first blush draft because I was bothered by the placekeeper in the budget of the $600,000. Because I thought that A is unrealistic. B I think this is both a financial document and a political document. And we as a finance committee I think should strongly but should inform folks that we feel there should be a reflection of new growth because of positive development. And that was what I was trying to get across. That I did not feel comfortable putting the $600,000 in there. And that we ought to ask management to do something about it. So my first blush was my words. Mary Luz, I could live with it, sort of says the same thing. But I think we needed some kind of a statement. And that was what I said. Is that consistent with what Sonia is saying? Sonia is saying we already look at it anyway. But unless we had one of these two paragraphs we never say that. We just sort of matter of fact say the figure is $600,000. But we don't tell anybody that that is a, well we do say it's a 10 year average. I think we should put in, if it's a budget document we should put in more. Because I think we are going to read more than just the 10 year average this year because of the new development. And that's what I, so that's what I said. And I think Mary Luz sort of said, she said the projection should be revisited and included in the preliminary budget to reflect the positive impact of the actual development process and plan rather than basing the projection on it and start continuing. That basically says the same thing differently than I said. So I could loop that. Can I just make a comment on that? It's not that the projection should be, it's that they will be, right? Isn't that what you're saying? Yes. So maybe that's even more informative to tell people that they will be revisited as we go along. It's not that we're not saying that they should be. We always start off with a trend. I agree with that. So your suggestion in Mary Luz draft, changing the word should to will. That's what I'm hearing. That's what you're saying. Yeah, a lot of these numbers, even on the expense side, other than an increase of two and a half percent with the operating budgets, are just to estimate. And as we start getting more definite numbers from the retirement floor. Yeah, that makes sense. It will be revisited. Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. That's fine. That's out of this budget. We update them. Okay, so then it becomes the one I suggested for Janice up at the top. We had three choices basically. Oh. She said this preliminary estimate of new growth may increase during the budget process, but it doesn't say anything about the 100,000. I'm sorry, where are we? At the bottom of one beginning of two. 100,000? It's 600,000. It doesn't mention that. I'm sorry. So that's a shorter version. Yeah, the shorter is better. Because people, you know, the longer it becomes, it becomes harder for people to actually read and retain all the information. I have a suggestion. If we want to go a shorter and we want to put it where Janice has hers, we can just use the same language. This preliminary estimate of new growth will be revisited and included in the blah, blah, blah, blah process. And that pretty much gets to the meat of the matter. That's tight. Okay. Yes. No, I agree. I think what we're trying to say here, though, that there was a significant increase in those revenues, I think part of this is to educate the new council. And some are aware, some have no clue. And that's okay. I'm not, you know, putting that down. I think while I agree with Honorog that for the most part, the shorter the better as people read it. I do think that the question, at least at some of the forums and candidates nights, were around finances. And I think people need to be informed. I think some of these councils will take this very seriously and read all six pages and the attachments. So that's where I'm coming from. So I would agree with that. I would suggest scratching the wording in the boards and going with your paragraph. Because otherwise there could be- Where it is under revenue. That's what I think. That's what I would propose. Others feel differently. I'm okay either way. Fine. This is good. You mind, Jasper? Okay. All right. We'll leave it where it is then, which follows you up. So we're getting rid of Tim's. We're going with yours and we're putting will. Yeah. And this is all going to be under revenue. Okay. And then at the last meeting, we talked about trying to differentiate ceilings and overrides and tax rates. And so we included this note about proposition two and a half. Because again, it's interesting how many people really don't understand it. Can I go back to page two? Sure. So we're keeping yours. Yes. So in the first line, total revenue budget, could you say what that means? Where is that? The largest revenue source is the property tax representing the percent of the total budget. Right. Or operating budget. Right. Not revenue budget. Is it revenue or operating budget? It could be. They have to be balanced. I don't know what revenue budget means. So do you think operating would be better? I would just take out. I would just say total budget. Yeah. Total budget. Okay. Scratch revenue. Thank you. We don't want to confuse people. Anything you see is confusing. Well, please bring that out. I'm thinking about it. Okay. It is 65 because it is revenue because tax is a revenue source. It is revenue. Yeah. So it's not operating budget. Don't use revenue and budget at the same time. One or the other. Yeah. Don't use budget. How about saying the largest revenue source, parentheses, 65 percent is the property tax period. Okay. Would that do it? It already says the largest revenue source is property tax. It's already saying revenue. The beginning of that? Yeah. The largest revenue source is 65 percent of the total budget. That's fine. Of the total budget. That's fine. Because revenue is already in there. Okay. Yeah. All right. So we get rid of revenue. We can do it twice. I don't know why. Seven. Double L. Well, but if it sounds confusing, we want to get rid of it. That's fine. I think the less confusing, the better. So we're going to take out revenue. Yes, we are. I think I'm becoming more and more confused about revenue. Okay. So let me just clarify. Is 65 percent of the operating budget, or is it 65 percent of the total budget? Because the total budget is more than the operating budget. Or is it 65 percent of the property tax? You know those pies and the indicator reports? The pies. The revenue pie and the expenditure pie. Yeah. And the revenue pie tax levy is 65 percent of that revenue. Yeah. But the revenue pie equals expenditure pie. Right? They have a balance. The budget equals, it's a level budget. But there's the revenue side and the expense side. So if you're doing percentages of revenue. It's the same as percent of expenses. No, because school, the town, school are each about 30 percent of the budget. And region is about 20 percent. The rest are all 20 percent. So you're talking about two different, totally different things. Two totally different pies. It amounts to the same, but they're cut up differently. Okay. Onto prop two and a half. So this we put in here. And I had David Burgess look at that. And that was okay. That's what it means. So then we get down to in 2010 where I compare the tax rate of 2010 to 2018. In eight years it shows the increase over an eight year period. And then we talk about it does fluctuate over time, but overall it steadily increases. So in this morning's paper, there was an article and the select board just approved of the tax rate. And it said the projected tax rate for 2019 is $21.80. And then they also point out that the commercial property is 11 percent of the taxable property in town. And 30 percent of the town's total of valuation is tax exempt. Now I put that in there. You may want to word it a little differently, but I think it's important information. People asked. Should we put anything in there as to why that increases occurred? No, we don't know why. We don't know why. We don't know why the tax rate has gone from 24 percent in the last eight years. Expenses go up. Inflation. There are other reasons too. If people read that, would they be interested in just another sense that says why that's occurred? Yeah, there's many factors that can affect the tax rate. It would be very broad. I was told that once they get this, that they do meet. And I think David Burgess would be one of the first people to speak with them. I thought when he came and spoke with us, it was really very informative. So I think he could explain more of this. He's the Irish guy, Scotch guy. Yeah, he's cool. Irish. Okay, so would, I mean, is this okay the way it's written? Or you could say further instead of in addition. For example, the projected rate for 2019 is 2180. Further commercial property owners are instead of in addition. The only comment I would make is for the residents, I think saying residential property owners represent 90% of the tax rather than saying the commercial property is 11%. And that's the same way of saying the same thing. But I think it makes more growth. I don't know. We can put both in. Or you could put both in. But I think people want, you know, we talk about expanding the tax rate or getting more taxes. Right. Oh, I understand. We need to do commercial. Well, here we see it's 11. But maybe we could, we will never go above 11. I'm not sure. I mean, I thought a big point is just a different way of saying the same thing. Well, it kind of says that the residents are heavily responsible for the taxes. That's what it's saying. But that's saying more than the way this is said. So that's what suggested to put that around. So what this basically says, the mail to your point that you mentioned in the recent email is 21.8. So the numerator is property taxes and denominator is valuation. Essentially, that's what it is. So our property taxes are rising at a faster rate than the valuations in town are at. So the valuations, if we ran into a deep recession and the valuations fell, we will not be able to cut our expenses that quickly. So your property tax rate might actually go closer to 25. So it's really, it's really loud. It's driven a lot normally by the expenses, but also the valuations are. Right. And to me, it seems like, you know, it's in our residents' interest that valuations go up that much because you're, if you want, if you plan to stay in the houses that you own for a long time, you don't want the valuations to go up because your taxes will go up accordingly. So I don't know how you explain that in this one sentence. You're wrong. I think we leave David Burgess to explain. That's a good point. I would second that. See David Burgess. I would say, I would put your comment about in addition, how about like note or something like that? How about further? Further. That's fine. Do we need to say for example or could we just say that? No, we can get rid of for example. I just, this was one of those quick things I put together this morning. Okay. So the projected rate for 2019. All right. Just as a curiosity, my understanding that 30% of the town's total valuations tax is exempt. That does not include the properties that the town is like in the only spaces it does. Includes that in? I don't think so. I think if you include that, it's more like 40% or not able to be taxed. What do you think so? Do you know? I don't know. David Burgess. That's interesting because we also have. It's a big number. Well conservation. I think 30 is too long. Okay. So when we get that number, how would you word it? We'll plug it in. Whatever the right number is, total is not taxed. That is non-taxable or something. Whatever the right phrase might be. Well, we need to know if the 30% includes conservation land. Well, I would assume that the tax exempt would also be the religious. Right. It would be the religious, the UMass, Amherst College, all that stuff, tax exempt. But in addition, we've set aside town loan properties. A lot. A lot. And the more we preserve open space, the more or less we have an ability to tax. I mean, that's a whole other issue. Or built. Or built. So I think we need to be careful what we say about number. That is what I have in question. This is what I gleaned from the paper. Right. There was no explanation as to how much was taxed. At one point, I did have the acreage that was held by the town and conservation. It's a sizable amount. So this makes a difference if it's just town on land or if it's all on other exempt land. Maybe wrong, but I think that's true. I think I've heard like 40%. A town on land. A town on land. Not a town on land. A town on land. A town on land. Total. Total. Total. Total. That includes town on land. So we're. You're phone different. Phone different. Okay. So let's leave a question mark there to see what information we get then. Okay. So these are the next. Oh, before you go, the other paragraph has to have the same wording as that total revenue budget that we just built in the first one. So we say the second large source of revenue is 20% of the total revenue. We should say total budget. Right. So now these, there were no further edits, but take a look at those. This is where you got the only from. Oh, only for FY 20. Right. And that's me. I'm restricted general government. That's the only thing we increased 2.5% in our projection. But. And they had only for FY 20. So in other words, you're not seeing that go forward. He said he didn't read the article. What? He said he didn't read that article. He wasn't coming from there. Worded. David Burgess in the land. I can, I can tell you, I think it's. So roughly 15.7% of those spaces institutionally. 42% partially or permanently protected land. So right there, that tells us that that 30% isn't accurate. Well, this has 30% of total valuation. That's a different thing. Yeah, you're right. I think that's by accurate then. So. Because here, because remember that. That land that isn't built on is taxed at a lower rate. So it may well be that somebody gave those figures at the select board meeting, but I'm not sure. So most of the remaining land is residential. About 25%. Wow. So your numbers come up to more like 60%, right? Well, but. It's valuation. Not valuation, but acreage. Acreage, yeah. So it's the valuation. Yeah. I'm not sure we need to get into all that. Yeah, I know. I think, well, let's ask if that's accurate. So what is here is all of the land owned by the town, the university and the other institutions and the religious organizations. If that is 30% is correct in terms of the valuation. Okay. I mean, it's not. It just shows that. Okay. I'm just curious. So we don't have an easy answer. Okay. All right. So then the next paragraph. What's your comment about only in there? This is not my wording. Okay. Your wording there. No, you left only in it. I put only in there because if you look at the projections in here, we conservatively increased data. The only portion that we increased was the agai at 2.5%. So basically I'm only saying we only increased the agai line. Right. Okay. So that's why that sentence is here. Right. Remember, we took a lot of this from previous. I do know what you're saying. I think only for FY20 means not for any other year. That's right. That's what it means. I would just take out FY20 because I think that's confusing. Not only for FY20, we raise it. We don't do this only for FY20. So take it out. I would take out. I would leave it only. I've got only. I just get rid of FY20. So put a period after only. That's your suggestion. Yes. I would kill. Thank you. That's the period after only and cross out FY20. How do you define your definition of the answer? Right. Check them out. Check them out. Check them out. Check them out. Check them out. Check them out. The only and cross out FY20. How do you define your definition of the answer? Right. Check them out. Make sure. Name the phrase. I think here. Only. I've got only. And we're taking out for FY20. Okay. We're all set on that. We're taking that out for FY20. Yes. Just for FY20. Okay. Wow. Okay. Or you could say the second-large service. What's more accurate is second-large service. 20% of the total. But, you know, the other way to make it less wordy, the second-large source of revenue, then if you put parentheses 20% and parentheses as state A, period, then you could say it is conservatively projected at no increase except for 2.5% for Aga. I think that's more wordy. Yeah. I think it's pretty simple as written, but we're taking out for FY20. But I like your part about the no, there is as no increase projected as no increase. Which is conservatively projected at no increase except for 2.5% for Aga. Except. I would say. Or. And increase for, okay. Does that make sense? Yes. It does. That's a little more accurate. Right. Correct. Yeah. Okay. So it is 20% of the total budget which is conservatively projected at no increase except for an increase of 2.5% for unrestricted A only. Okay. Because everything in here should reflect the predictions that were handed out. Right. Okay. Are we okay with that? Any other place? On page three, anything else? We did include UMass, Amherst and Hampshire. We did get those figures in terms of their contribution. People ask that now they know anything else. All right. On to page four. We updated the free catch numbers. The rest is pretty much from previous years with updated numbers and requests. So can I just clarify at the bottom of page four? Okay. OPEB, bottom of the first paragraph. Beginning in the year FY15. Funds have been included in the operating budget. That's a little bit confusing. Which funds? OPEB funds. You mean the allocations or? I'm not sure you. Oh, I see. How about funding has? Does that say the same thing? I mean, I don't know. Right. That makes more sense. You mean $500,000? That's always been the operating budget. Right. Which funds have been? I don't understand that. Starting in FY15, funding has been included in the operating budget. It should be funding. We started in FY15, I believe. Yeah. So I think that's what's kind of confusing about it. It kind of just certainly shows up. This annual contributions to the OPEB fund have been included in the operating budget since 2015. This annual, I'm sorry, this annual funding? This annual funding amount. This annual funding. Or appropriation. This annual appropriation? This annual appropriation. No, we're talking, that's what it's under. This annual appropriation for OPEB have been included in the annual operating budget since FY15. Prior to that, how did we allocate? And I would not put, you know, OPEB is not really debt. Debt is usually interest paying obligations. OPEB doesn't have interest paying obligations. So I would not equate OPEB with debt. So you take as a town recognizer. I would just take that sentence out. That sentence out, okay. Everyone agree? Sure. Yes. Well, the only thing is, do you want to say that we recognize as the obligation to do that so that they? It's a discretionary, it's a town's choice to do that. We don't really have to do it. Right. But I think, let's think about this. One of the things that I've heard, you know, at town meeting, I think we've all heard is, well, we could spend that money for other things, just as they speak about reserves. And I guess this committee is hoping that they will continue this to bring that debt down and to begin to accumulate that money. So would something make sense to be left in there or a sentence that basically sends that so that they don't think, well, I mean, that's 500,000. That can go through a lot of things, like roads. I don't know. Yeah, so what is the reason we're doing this? I think the reason we're talking about the debt and the reason I would have something in there that the town should assume the responsibility of continuing this, because we owe that. Okay, so here's my thought on that. First of all, it's not debt. I would not call it debt. We call it obligation or whatever you want to call it. Second of all, we are doing this, we are doing this out of choice, not by law. We are not required to do this by law. In the town council, can we encourage to do that, because they may have their own thinking about it, and they may decide to stop funding the OPED altogether. It's also good for our bond rating. Sure. But bond rating, I don't think if we allocated 400,000 versus 500,000, bond rating is going to be affected by it. If you don't allocate anything, I think it would be. It doesn't have to be $500,000. So that's an arbitrary number. We are just doing it because we want to do it. We have to make a choice as a finance committee in the town that we're going to keep ramping it up from 100 to 200 to 300 to 500. But that's by choice. And the town council may make a different choice altogether. It was part of the funding plan that Mr. Buller left in place. Sure. Where any Medicare Part D money would be reallocated into the OPED fund and that we would start off with 100,000 a year allocating, and every year we raise it 100,000. And his funding plan was intended to go up 100,000 every year, even past the 500. But we have a lot of large capital projects that everybody wants to start working on. So the town manager wants to keep it at 500 for a while. Once the retirement is paid off or our retirement obligation is paid off, which is 33 or 35, I'm not sure, a white year, then we would reallocate that money towards the OPED. I'm not disputing any of that. I understand and agree with all of that. All I'm saying is after this meeting, December 2, the town council takes over, they will have their own thinking. Right? And they may not choose to do that anymore. So if we want to leave them some kind of message that it has a rationale for appropriating money for OPED, then at least they will know the rationale, but they will still do whatever they want to do. So you wouldn't want anything in there, even something like the town recognizes... Assume responsibility. ...recognizes this responsibility for something, and allocates funds for it. You don't have to say the number. It could be $2. We said it in the first sentence. No, I know, but this last sentence doesn't have to say that. We just say allocate funds for it. That could be any of them. Are you on Iraq's saying they may decide one year that 100,000 is sufficient. They want to put 400,000 into roads. You know, and that should be their choice. But I think what we just like to say, the town has assumed this responsibility. Yeah, the town had assumed this. The town has been appropriating these money on the premise that contributions to the OPEB are financially prudent. Okay, the town has been appropriating this... The town has chosen to appropriate... On this premise. The town has chosen to appropriate monies for contributions to OPEB on the premise that doing so is financially prudent. When you say the town, what entity, or who in particular? All of us. All of us in this room? All of us. The whole town? Yeah. The officials of the town. You're talking about the officials of the town. Yeah, that's what I mean. They are making most of the financial decisions. The town meeting is kind of going along with it. Every time the town meeting was said, yes, fine, do it, right? So that's the town. So who was recommending this? Who was recommending this? Poole. Poole had a plan in place, and as Sonia just explained, and we accepted, the finance committee accepted that, and we put that forward to the town meeting, and the town meeting accepted that. So what you're saying, the point you're trying to make is that Poole or whoever they replace as the finance director is not going to be making that decision. It's going to be the new town council. Is that what you're saying? On a recommendation from a new finance director. Which is, so is that, that's different than what it was before. The financial director said, it wasn't a recommendation. The financial director said, this is right. So that's my, I understand what you're saying, but what you're getting at seems to be pointing that there's a control change. Is that what you're saying? And if there's not a control change, then it doesn't make any sense to say anything different. Because there's still going to have a finance committee, and it's still going to be this like, it's like if everybody on this finance committee got replaced, if there was still town meeting, and everybody on this finance committee got replaced by a different group of finance committee people, would you still be saying the same thing? Janice. But this is part of the budget. So it becomes, it's the manager's budget to start. That's what it is. It's not like, it's the, it's part of the budget, and it started out being suggested by the finance director, but then people thought it was a good idea. Because the town meeting could have said, no, don't do that. Right. But they didn't do it. They didn't say that. So here's the sentence. Yeah. Okay. Here's the sentence from Don Rock. I tried to get it so it works. The town has been appropriating funding for OPEV on the premise that doing so is financially prudent. That's it. And it means a lot of different things. Right. But it's kind of covered a lot of bases, and people can then dig into it if they want to. Right. They can do the amount we've been doing. They can do less. Tim. I was just, as you were talking, I was just rewording things. We sort of say that in the first sentence. And here's the suggestion. We could say something like, based on prudent fiscal management, the finance committee once again recommends an allocation of $500,000, a little bit of trust fund, and FY20 budget barrier, or something like that. I think that sort of says it right off the bat based on his data. I don't know. That's one fund. Sure. Many of this is going to happen. Okay. Where do we want it? Because I'm going to have to work this up. Well, my suggestion is, let's start at the bottom, where it says, town is allocated 4.9 million to OPEV. I put a period then, and scratch the sentence beginning with beginning. But then, start the paragraph with, based on prudent fiscal management, the finance committee once again recommends an allocation of $500,000, a little bit of trust fund, and FY20 budget. But that gets away from what he's saying. It does. I think it's... Is that what you're saying, Honorary? It's close. It's providing... It's saying the finance committee is more efficient, and you are saying fiscal prudence, right off the bat. With $500,000 though. And you're saying they may not want to do that. But that's our record. They may not want to have a guideline of 2.5. Right. Yeah, they might not want to do any of this. Right. And if you're elected, what do you think? What do you think? We'll talk about the record. Okay, based... So I would say, based on prudent fiscal management, the finance committee, now you could either say once again, let me put that in, we can debate it. Once again, it recommends an allocation of $500,000 to the open trust fund and the FY20 budget. The reason I would use once again is it tells people that this isn't the first year of doing it. So then I could just use the rest of that sentence. Yeah. Okay, so now that's fine. So when we get to the... Because I've written it out here and can have followed what you're saying. So then we get to the last sentence here, which beginning in... See, that's kind of repetitive to what the first sentence is. Except that we began funding this. Where would we put that? That's just information. Yeah. Beginning in... Maybe that's it. Ended with a period after budget. Beginning in... Have been appropriated in the operating budget. Funding has been included in the operating budget. Makes sense. Inception in FY15, the tenors allocated $4.99. There you go. I would put a period after that. Where are you? See the sentence saying beginning in FY15? I don't know how crucial saying beginning in FY15 is. Right. We just want to say that's when it began. So where do you want to put that? I don't. I want to scratch that whole last sentence. That's fine with me, but I think we need to tell them when we began this. That's a while. Well, Sonya mentioned it's inception FY15. Can you say it's its inception in FY15? The tenors allocated $4.99. $4.99 on the bottom. Is that what you just said? Yes, Sonya said that. You can rewind the tapes. Great. Oh, it says this inception in FY15. Okay, that's great. The tenors allocated $4.99. Great. All right. Good thought. Good. Okay. Anything else under OPEV? No, but I hate to do this, but can we go back up to the top of the page? Sure. Top of page four? Yeah. It's part of previous pages says however other financing sources will decrease including evidence receipts. Other financing sources can sometimes be free cash, civilization, fund, overlay. All we really wanted to highlight here is that new list receipts have gone down. We lost about $450,000 in the revenue when had they signed an independent contract. Right. And that is, they paid us $140,000 a year for the town of B and then about $300,000 came from user fees. So, we don't really want to say $450,000 in here because if we're looking at the projection it's only about a $335,000 decrease because we also, you know, there's more growth if fees go up or we also are using Comstar now to do collections and the theory is that's going to bring in more revenue. We don't have enough trend yet for me to even get into that yet. So we didn't reduce the ambulance by the full $450,000. We only reduced it in the projection by $330,000. Yes, approximately $450,000 of revenue was lost but we didn't reduce the rejection by $430,000. I hear what you're saying but you are losing $450,000 from that even though the other things will be less. But that's not what this project decreased by. I don't know why. What's the difference? Why did you choose the $330,000 or $450,000? Because we're looking at trend as the ambulance runs increased. We take out the handling and we're still up a little. Oh, I thought $450,000 was an actual contract with Hadley. She said the contract was $140,000. $140,000. $300,000 was the user. What was the user? About $300,000 in Ryder fees. Okay. And you're suggesting, okay. And that's what she makes, obviously. And you're also saying that you're using a different service to billing bills. Yes, billing is going is a third party billing company. Which have an effective March 1st, I think. March 1st. But it's a cost to use a billing company, isn't it? It is, but it's supposed to be a lower cost and having a full-time employee with benefits. So, how about just saying including amperage receipts of over $300,000 due to the top hat would that say? Yep. Then you know, and if you want to get more specific you can go and read the ambulance receipts and just avoid the 450 number. That's still big numbers. That number is out there. It's in the financial indicators that we lost 450. We're not trying to hide 450. I'm just saying you need to put you're going to put a number in here. You need to put 335 because that is the difference in the rejection. I hear that. So, in other words though we want to say however other funding sources will decrease by how much that's overall. Other funding sources will decrease by how much? 335. 335,000. And then we say including ambulance receipts get rid of by approximately 450. It just says including those. I would say due to. And then due to the top hat. Due to the ambulance receipts declining. Declining ambulance receipts. Due to. You're also not getting the contract money for penalties. Is that part of this? That's an addition. We're talking two things here. We're talking about revenue that comes into the ambulance fund that we then take from the ambulance fund as a funding source for the operating budget. So, less money is going into the ambulance fund so we're taking less money for the operating budget. But we're not hitting the difference between this year's operating budget ambulance fees and for 20 that we're projecting is only 335. It's not the whole $450,000. So, where does that $120,000 from the contract cost? It used to go into the ambulance fund and then we would appropriate from the ambulance fund as another financing source to support the public safety budget. So, that's another $140,000 that we're not getting. But this is all about the projections. This is all about the projections and if you look at the projections of how much ambulance funds were used last year and how much we're using this year, the difference is 335. Somebody like I won't mention her name in the room would look at that number and say how come it doesn't match what's on it and then they have to end the verse. So, I'm saying about $335,000. Yeah, I don't know what you're saying. Ambulance receipts due to what? Due to the town of Hadley establishing its own paramedic service, is that okay? Or due to, what did you say, receipts and something? Declining. Due to? Declining ambulance receipts. Declining receipts. And not the contract? That is the contract and the ridership. That's all receipts. All receipts, okay. Due to the plenty ambulance receipts as Hadley has established its own paramedic service? I just want my number coming up. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's fine. That does it. Just say that that's one of them, but it isn't all of them. Okay? All right. Anything else on that? I will send this out to everybody again so you can look at the changes in wording and make sure it's correct. Are we going to have another meeting? No. By email. We could have another meeting, but I said this was our final meeting, everybody. So, okay. So then we're on to reserve funds and Sonia filled in those numbers, so we should be correct with that. Information we've think we read that the last time we were here for comment there. And none of that was changed since our last meeting. The only thing was the schedule and where I have C attached town of Amherst, FY 2020 draft budget development calendar. That's what the council will be working with. Do you want FY 2020 or just FY 2020? Can I? Are we moving on? Well, I moved along because we did this the last time. Page five? Sure. The request budget information, there's a question in there at the very last part. Oh. In the parentheses. Oh, that's a mistake. It's a weird one. No, where? In the parentheses. Oh, no, it's EG up above with... I know, but there's parentheses in front of that. Where? In front of the EG. Yes, that's where it's supposed to be. And it goes all the way to the end. It goes all the way to the end. Those are examples. We don't need that. We don't need parentheses there. And the last one is a question. How does that affect current budgetary needs? Question. But it could be a period. I'm not wedded to either. So... We're trying to give them examples of what? So it seemed to me that the parentheses were appropriate there. To separate it out. Maybe not. I'm willing to go either way. I would take out the parentheses. Okay. You want to get rid of it? Kind of weird. Okay. I will get rid of it. I just wanted to separate it out so they could see the examples. You can certainly... If you make the less, it's not a question. Just make a period? Okay. That's fine. I should tell you when I was at Illinois they sent high school essays out to ten English faculty. And the results came back. They ranged from A to Fs depending on who read it. So I kind of feel like that here with periods, commas, parentheses, italics. Well, you're going to be precise, that's all. Well, but there's a little difference of opinion about precise. But this is very good because we do want people to understand it, to read it, and as you say, to be correct. Okay. And then our conclusion is I did ask the manager. He gave us the answer, but I am going to stick with how we've done this in the past. I'd ask about the council and he thought we should see the select board and the council. These letters have always gone to the select board, the school community, Jones trustees, with the manager, superintendent, and library directors after those. But I do agree that the council should be CC'd at the end of our document. So everybody gets it. Yeah. And we read up front to the Future Town Council rather than CC'd. Because... No. They're not on till... They're not sworn in until December 2nd. But part of our tent is... Okay. Technical, I suppose, I think, goes to the select board. Will that be passed on to the town council? Well, that sounds good. We're going to make a list of things we like in the packet to the council today. But by the time they get this, the manager will be well on his way to establishing and the select board. They're in place till December 2nd, right? Right. So they are going to give the guidelines. So the manager can put his budget together. So that's the kind of... We're caught between this, in this time frame. So is everybody okay, or is there more comments to be made? We're good. So the comments is one on this, that this side of the community is going to think in a better way. Are you on the... Page 8. Okay. We can do that. Go ahead. So the FY20 projected at the very bottom. So we've got a 2.789 increase from last year. We're meeting the budget. Is that it again? It's right in the bottom. Total budget plan. Total budget plan. So it's 2 million. It's up 2.789 million from last year. So maybe just under the total budget plan, say a year where you change. Yeah. Look at those shortfalls as we move forward. Remember, these are really... These are the beginning preliminary estimates. This is historically... We've all started off with a 600,000 year growth. Very conservative in all our estimates until we start getting some more concrete numbers and expenditures and revenues. So everything is estimated at 600 new growth. Okay. If we get more new growth, then tax levy will actually be higher. And these will come down. And these will come down. Oh. But the total budget plan is going down. Is that because the debt is going down? Debt's going down. The total budget plan is going down. If you look above the red, the budget is going down. That's the year-to-year increase is going down. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. So the budget is going up. Okay. This budget says we're going to generate 2.1% increase in revenues and 3.5% in expenses. They're ergo, the million-dollar deficit. That's what it says right now. Yeah. Any other comments on any of this? Okay. Then the question I also have is welcoming the new council items that we would suggest go in packet to them. I suggested when we did the Orange Finance Committee report that we set aside 13 of those for the new council. A copy of the Joint Capital Planning Committee's report has a lot of information in terms of their projection. Now, I fully understand that they can ignore all of this. It's not a problem. But I think a little history is helpful. As they come on. So those were two things. We put that budget calendar together. We did something else. Anything else you think would be nice in a packet with welcome award? Do we have our financial policies in the document? Oh, okay. Yes, we have those. All of this is online. Okay. But I think our copy would be nice. We'll look at that. What else did we have? Oh, I thought the other thing that would be helpful, although the cost figure, the costs have changed. But we did the four documents for school, fire, DPW, and library. And we just talk about, we gave the history of them with when they were built and their ADA compliance and a number of other things. And in the library when we did the renovation. So I think even though the cost of them will certainly not be the same, but that background information I think would be helpful if those four documents went out. And we might need a cover sheet to explain some of that. Okay. We can work on that. We have those December 2nd. We can do this by email to each other. So that would be one, what's the other one? Oh, and our final statement to town meeting which we read but didn't print. So, and we can send those around. You can look at them. What else do you think would be helpful? A nice letter. Welcome aboard. It would be fun. And anything else you think that would be helpful in the document? Or in the packet? Okay, if I do, I'll let you know. What? I wasn't even going to go there, but I was going to say some balloons or something. Yeah. Welcome aboard. The other thing I'm hoping, I don't think they're required to have Amherst Media film their finance committee meetings. No transparency. But I think I would make a very strong recommendation that be done. Are they going to have a separate clerk? For what? To take minutes, you mean? Do I read that somewhere? You have to talk to the town manager. I think one of the things, one of the issues that I would see with having equipment, because I've thought in the past since I've been on the plane, that would be a great thing to have. But unless you have one person who's committed to staying, their eyes will blast over. Because if you don't understand what we're doing, it's hard to write minutes. Would you agree? I think the charter calls for a clerk. Oh. Yeah, that's what I thought. I think so. Calls for a clerk. Yeah. But not necessarily in the finance committee subcommittee. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was. But don't you think it's hard for people to come in and take minutes on some of this stuff that's really technical and to write it up? I mean, it took me, you know, the first year to get used to the jargon and how to write minutes and so forth. And I think unless you have one person that's assigned all the time, you just, I'm not sure how the minutes will go out. See, I don't know how other committees like the planning board, or the planning committee, how those committees record minutes. Do they circulate around like us? They rotate based on, I don't know. I'm not sure we need to make a recommendation. No, no. But I'm thinking, I just wonder how that will be done. Okay. Do you think it would be nice to have a finance committee when you have televised? Yes. Well, that's probably an overmeading requirement. They're not going to have a... They're not televised. If they don't have a quorum... Oh, not televised. No. If they don't have a quorum, they don't have to do that. Unless a subcommittee, you have a quorum of the subcommittee. Yeah, we'd have to check on. Okay. So that's where that is. Any... Are we through with this? Are we through with the guidelines? And I will make the changes and get them out to everyone. All right. Any final committee reports, liaison reports? Joe, got anything for us? Have you gone to a... Hold on. Hold on. Have you gone to a site yet? No. There has been no DPW meeting. Okay. But the DPW... What I just know that is a concern about where we're going to put this new DPW. They're still looking, right? Yeah, they're still looking. So I'm just going to put down Joe James and nothing. Yeah. So can we talk... Can we talk about my minutes? Yes. Because I owe you, I owe you minutes. Yes. I owe you three minutes. I got nothing for you right now. But can I just tell you my excuses? Your excuses? Well, I don't know if we'll accept them, but... I know. No, no, no, they're not good. So the minutes that I owe you, one of them is from May, a meeting we had in May. Okay. So... I know. Sorry about this. I told you before, that my computer... So my computer... You need a camera. Yeah. So my computer did get a bug. It got wiped out. So it was my work computer and it totally got wiped out. And it was... This happened in June. So all of that... Is that the set? No. Hold on. No, no, no. Hold on. No, no, we have. So hold on. Hold on. So these May minutes, right? So I would try to work in the minutes. But Amherst Media, right, they usually post the... So in other words, I got nothing to go on and wiped off my computer. But so you go to Amherst Media, their website, and you can find the meeting. But they do not have that May meeting posted there yet. So I have to contact Amherst Media and find out where, why hasn't it been posted on their website. So once I see that, then I could do that set. It may not have been filmed. Yeah, I think that... No, no, it was filmed. Yeah, it was there. I remember that. Yeah, it was filmed. No, this was not before. This was after town meeting. I mean... This was a meeting we had, I think, in June. Well, there was one that was not filmed. Yeah, it was. Because they didn't have anyone to do it. No, because the other two were filmed. The one in the art room, which I owe you, which I'm almost done with. And then the other little one where we huddled together out in front of town meeting, that little brief one. Okay. I have those notes too and I'm almost done with that one. But there's another meeting that we went to in town hall and it's not on Amherst Media. It was not filmed. Well, there was... There was one that was not filmed. There was one that was not filmed. Because... Well, let me at least call Amherst Media and find out. Okay, it may not have been filmed. Well, in that case, I'm kind of screwed because that was wiped off when all my notes were completely deleted and destroyed. Okay, we might be able to find something if we can remember what I'll have to look on the agenda. Yeah. Because it can be very... It was, I think, a very brief meeting. But... Well, it was longer than the other two. Okay. April 30th, May 16th. I think it was May 16th. July 6th. Or it might have been... It might have been the July meeting. Okay. Okay. Sorry about your computer. So... That was really well... I know. If you use pencil and pencil, you don't have a problem. I was... I swear to God... And not only that, all the work stuff got wiped out of the Tarsha. Oh, okay. They had to clean... They had to wipe my whole computer. The Russians want to steal the pencil. Well, I've learned my lesson. I should have just done it. I should have just done it on my phone. I should have just done it. I should have just done it on my computer. I should have just done it on my phone. I should have stopped with the phone. I should have stopped with the phone. I should have stopped with the phone. I should have stopped with the phone. I should have stopped with the phone. Okay. And on a rug, you have an update for us. Oh, my God. I do. You... On the finance director, you're on that committee. Oh, Sonia knows that too. Oh, yeah. How's that circle? I'm a liaison. You're a liaison? Yes. Have you found something? Well, although I was not appointed to the liaison, but... Yeah. You were appointed. You were on this committee. Yeah. That's right. I think it was... We had all together four... You know, Deb was running the meeting. Deb ran away. And... We... In the end, ended up inviting four... people in for interviews. And... Were there five, really? Yeah. And... There was some discussion about that. All of those candidates have strengthened weaknesses. And nobody, though, could really stand up to standing. Standing. That's right. So I think... So it was not... It was... So there was some discussion about what to do, what to do. And then it became evident that the finance department also needed some help with the treasury function. So the idea was, initially the thought was that the finance director would do the, you know, the outward facing interacting with the, you know, public and council and stuff like that. And that role of providing overall guidance to the finance department and the finances of the town, but also they helped out with the treasury function. And so the hope was that there would be somebody who could do both. And the candidates that came in, the general feeling was pretty unanimous that none of the candidates who came in would probably be able to do both. And so then the question became, okay, how do you move forward? And of the two roles, they're both important roles. The one which is really urgent, though, is the treasury function. Because the department had to be, for the department to be whole and functioned as a well-oiled machine as it is right now. They need the treasury function there. So the last I heard, I think Paul just mentioned that to me in a sidebar after the budget meeting was that there was some, there appears to be leaning towards just taking care of the treasury function first and then see what happens after that. No, Tony, did that correct you or am I missing something? I think it's a work in progress. I think they're still trying to figure out exactly what they're going to do. And I think they are looking for options for treasury. So there's going to be two positions. What would you position to find is the treasury function? Well, the money. Yeah, borrowing, debt statements. All that kind of accounting and auditing function but the more kind of money flows. Where we invest too, right? I mean, she was good at investing and how you can shift from banks and CDs and all of that. Yeah, that's a big draw. Right. There has to be separation of duties with that. I could help out to some degree. There's too much. There's a lot going on. So work in progress. Okay. So are there going to be two positions created? We don't know. We don't know. I think we're still looking for that perfect position. To walk in our door and say I want to work for you and I can do this. And I think the finance director position is a leadership position. He works very closely with the town manager because the town manager has the overall security sense of the town and the finance director basically just makes that possible for the numbers. So it's a really important position. So I think my personal sense is take your time because... Open the search. I don't know if they're going to reopen the search or not. I don't know what's going on about that. I'm not privy to that. So that's not... And Bernie has been working on some kind of bylaws from the old charter to the new. Do you know anything about that? Any updates? I know they're very frequently across the hall from my office. They've just gone through every bylaw one by one and writing them up to be city bylaws. But that's pretty much all I know about it. I hear they're doing a great job from Hall. Well, Bernie is an administrator, so... He's Jeff Kravitz and then Barbara Jean. Barbara Jean. Oh, okay. So that's a good team. I'm trying to generalize this one. I have no idea. He was a town attorney. He was a town lawyer at one time. What's up? Any other news from any other group? Okay, so we're going to close soon. So I'm going to say in closing... We can use Tim's minutes. What's that? Oh, we have minutes? There were minutes that I submitted back in. September 27th. Oh, okay. We have an official meeting. I'm going to approve it. Okay. All in favor of Tim's minutes of September... Put it up my hand. I got a little idea. I'm not lost. All right. Six. Everybody with one absent. Any other minutes? Anything outstanding? I think it's time for me to close in. Yeah. I'll move the rest of the minutes. Sorry to interrupt. What was the dates of your minutes? September 27th. All right. I think what we will do with the rest of the minutes is when you get them ready to submit them, we will put draft across the front of them, and we will submit them to the website. Because if we had another meeting, then we'd have to approve the minutes of that meeting, and we could be on a long time. So I think that's going to be the easiest way. We could submit the new finance committee. No. Right. And when they go to vote, there will be no one there unless you get elected. So, okay. So in closing, we're going to say good night and goodbye. And we're going to go around the table and you can say good night and goodbye. Do I start? Sure. Well, I have to say this has been a real pleasure to serve the town in this capacity. I really enjoy not so much the work, but I really enjoyed getting to know the people in the town hall and getting to know my colleagues on the finance committee, wonderful people, I have to say. Thank you. Joe Jane, yes, and I second that motion. This has been a fantastic experience for myself and I hope to stay very involved in the town in some way, shape, or form. And this is just a fantastic group of people and I'm so glad that I know them and the other folks that I've met through my time on the finance committee that work in town hall. It's actually fantastic and my taxes keep going up and I love this town and I'm going to keep paying those taxes and my parking tickets too. God bless Amherst, Massachusetts, I love this place. I have to say, he's going to pay my parking tickets too. I'm going to pay his too. Thank you Amherst Media too. Thank you Amherst Media. Thank you Amherst Media. I'll just say that in the beginning so I don't forget. I feel as though I have only got to serve a year on this committee but it's been really eye opening and you're right, it's been a lot of work. I've actually enjoyed that. Sorry Amherst. Maybe if I had been on here as long as you I would have a difference. Seven and a half years. Seven and a half years. And I also look forward to keeping my finger on the town, the pulse of the town. Thank you. I'm done. Unless I think of something else. Which is going to happen. I'm Janice Ratner and this is actually my second stint on the finance committee and I always felt it was an honor to be on this committee and working with a lot of very good people who are very interested in do their homework and we learn an awful lot about the town and how it works and what's really in the budget and it's been really, really good and I've had a lot of very positive comments from people I run into and I appreciate them and thank you Amherst Media as well as they. Yeah, Tim Neil. I'd echo all the comments and my only addition would be the time I've spent on this committee I think it really goes to show we are a serious committee we really do debate the issues and we certainly are not a rubber stamp committee. We have disagreements and I think we collegially solve or work out those disagreements and I think that's been healthy and very good. Especially about punctuation. About punctuation, absolutely. We can go from the nitpicky to the big picture, right? But I think it's been that the colleagues on the committee have been great and I think it also has been a testament to us in terms of the quality of the town and the town folks who work here and I think that's been evident in terms of the materials we've had and the seriousness that everybody has paid attention to the fiscal management and the prudence of this town so I think that's been a very good addition not only to us while we're cheers but to the professional staff who has helped us as we've been. And, you know, Bernie is not here and he is not authorized to say anything on its behalf but if he was here I'm quite sure he would say the same things. Well, I want to say it's been a real honor working with everyone. I've made me laugh a lot. Yes, I've cried a few times too. But I've had a great time. I was really scared coming into this committee when Mr. Fuller left. You all know I got really good at talking in front of a crowd or a meeting but you become family and I miss working with all of you and I hope to work with you again in other committees. CPA, we're looking for it. And those were, by the way, those were tears of joy. Yes, of course. And thank you Amherst Media. Yes. And thank you Amherst Media. I can echo everything everyone said. It's been a terrific group of people to work with. But I want to make, you know, a real strong statement about how competent this town is run. It's very efficient, it runs well, it spends its money wisely and the Town Hall staff is just incredible. They work hard, they produce for us and I have not seen any group of town folks who are so dedicated to the town. So I really appreciate everything they do and I know that members of our community do too. So with that we part and we wish the new council well and we will be probably looking in to see what they're doing. We will be watching. We will be watching. And I would say that good night for Bernie Kubiak too. Unfortunately he couldn't be here. So onward and upward. Thank you. Thank you.