 into, I have notes, the show, want to give a shout-out to our sponsor ExpressVPN. Why haven't you got an VPN yet? Go to expressvpn.com slash RTTV and go get one. If you guys want to join us in chat, create a free Riser Teeth account. I have my chat window up here, so I will be seeing everyone's comments, so be appropriate and love us fully. Or not, no more, no less. No more, no less. Just the appropriate amount. I wanted to also shout out to Wrestling with the Week, premiering January 18th with James Willems and Scorpio Sky. It's about wrestling. It's neat. So welcome to the show. I have notes. A show where we talk about everything or all things animation, creative, real estate, and Pedro Pascal. I am your host, and with me today is Surprise, but not Surprise, but always a good surprise, Erin Wynne. Oh yeah. Another surprise, a Big Bang Yang Surprise. And a pleasant surprise, but like the kind where you get a weighted blanket for Christmas. It's Hannah McCarthy. I want to be a weighted blanket. I like that. Yeah, it's a really good present. I never got one, but I just want to put that out there that it's probably a really great present. I'll get you one. They're so nice. They are good. You know what I started doing recently in lieu of a weighted blanket? Because I like sleeping with the weighted blanket on me, but it could get a little warm and you could like shuffle around a little. I started putting another pillow on top of the comforter by my feet so my feet feel kind of weighed down and it's really cozy. Innovation. I like it. It was like compression socks without socks. Exactly. Compression feet. How did? Upper leg, depending on how big your pillow is. Have you guys ever tried compression socks? I don't think I ever did. No. I keep getting that stage of old yet. Yeah. What do I do? It's a certain compression technology and it's supposed to help with some people get swelling on their calves and like lower kind of legs. I know like I think my mom and my I'm sure my grandparents have worn them before. They're just like very tight socks. Yeah. Yeah. The times I've heard them mentioned are like pregnancy and when you're on airplanes. Is that right? Interesting. I think. Huh. That was educational. I learned something. Even though I have like a huge question mark at the end of the book. I'll believe anything if you say it. Yeah. Same. Same. Absolutely. Life is all about confidence and saying anything with confidence and then people will just be like, I mean sure. Yeah. That's gotta be true then. Yeah. Ooh. Like I said guys, I'm checking out on at chat and we got a we got a cool cast here today. Not just us ladies. Ooh ladies. Ladies. I see a Caesars in there asking what did Pedro what about Pedro? What did I miss? Oh my gosh. Andre is in there. Hi Andre. So is Noel Wiggins. He calls us the most talented cast I've ever seen. Oh well. I like how you're shouting out the people we work with and not like the fans. That's true. Sorry guys. Also all the listeners and viewers of course. It's true. Look, I was I'm trying to find a word for it. It's like someone I see frequently, wheel for speed. Shout out to you. Yeah. The regulars. It's true. Hodglet. Hodglet. Yes. Oh I see Toa in there as well. Toa. Toa last week asked for more tips from DLR. It's pretty fun. So hi guys. How is everyone? How was your weekend? Did you do anything fun? Well it was a pretty weekend. It was a three day weekend. I bought a lot of plants. That's how I'm coping. Oh no. Just in life in general. Yeah. Not at that stage. Yes, very much. I had asked a while ago for people's recommendations on plants that I'm not likely to murder. And there's a lot of great recommendations. And so I went and I got a bunch of plants. I don't have a lot of natural light in my apartment. So already off to a bad start. Relatable. So trying my best. But I've got like a little section over here in my apartment that is now very green. And I like that a lot. So please send good vibes for my plants because there it's an uphill battle for them moving forward. Vibes sending the vibes away. Plant vibes. We're going to cut back to you in like two months from now and you're just going to be surrounded by plants. You're going to like all your whole style is going to have changed. It's going to be one with nature baby. One end of this. It will either be the saddest pile of just brown decayed failure or I will have gone full like poison ivy. And I'm like, this is my life now. Cottagecore villain. Yes. I need that to be in some show now. I love that. I have this problem where I forget everything I've done over the weekend. Previous days before this current one, like someone's like, what did you do this weekend? And I'm like, what did I do this weekend? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I have to like, because like, I don't know about you guys, I live by my Google calendar. I have house for like many years at this point where I'm just like, also sorry, my light's flickering a little bit. I forget everything I do in days past unless it's on my calendar. But I just looked at my calendar and I happened to put stuff on it this weekend. I did some streaming with people this weekend, played some Among Us, played some Clue. A couple of weekends ago, we played Project Winter for the first time, which was really fun. I don't know if you guys like it. Yeah, I caught a little bit of that. Yeah. Yeah, me too, actually. Fun fact. You got some fans here, Barbara. A whole. You've got to watch me play. I'm nervous now. Oh God, what did I do? I just kind of like chill on the weekends. And then once the week starts, I just kind of like brain dump everything. I don't know. That's valid. Yeah, I think that is valid. Mostly like just relaxing and like vegetating. And then I've been working on a live 2D character for somebody. So it's been an interesting challenge. Yeah, I won't say who because I don't know if they want me to reveal that. But yeah, that's it. Is it a cottagecore villain? Maybe the next one. Yeah, I'm going to have to commission me to do it. I'm going to have to commission that. I love it. We can work together. Yes. Issa, how was your weekend? It was good. My SO got Persona 5 Royal. So we've been playing. He's been playing through that. And Persona games or Persona 5 specifically is kind of just your classic 100 hour games. We're going through it just like relaxing and stuff. I finished a game I previously mentioned called Dicey Dungeon. I finished the Switchport. It's really fun. I finished it, which is really great. And so now I'm playing another game that's kind of like similar to it, which my SO and I often have a lot of discussions kind of like talking about game design or what makes a game really interesting. So that's kind of the kind of stuff I look forward to just kind of like relaxing and playing on my Switch while he's playing Persona 5. So it's been nice. But I wanted to bring up that because you mentioned you live off of your Google calendar. That was me for like the last quarter of last year until I was like, fine, it's 2021. I'm going to journal again. I swear to God. So smart. Yeah. I got my got my journal. Is it like a bullet journal or like how are you how are you organizing it? It is a bullet journal. Yeah, I'm into that stuff. So I did a I hope the camera blurs it out. But just shake it really fast. Yeah, just move it around. Do some of this. Someone's going to stabilize it and try to like check for like DLR spoilers or something. But I found this cool spread that's like, oh, you can like fold it over. And it says like Saturday and Sunday and stuff. So smart. Hold it like that. Have you found it? I know we're only like two weeks in change into 2021. But have you found it helpful? Yes, I always like journaling. I think last year though, there was this, I had this interesting. What's the word I'm looking for? I guess kind of it's not I guess it's like a discussion with myself or the being introspective because quarantine. That there's like time I want to spend doing other stuff that I'm still kind of adjusting to having a significant other. So there's so many things that I did while I was single for myself that having an SO I was like, Oh, I do want to spend a lot of time with them. But that does mean I don't get to spend as much time doing these other things that brought me joy. So it was kind of like not scheduling those things out, but just giving myself that time back as well. So yeah, we've been we've talked about it and they my SO enjoys me doing my stuff. So that's so important. Yeah, for any relationship, like that was something that, you know, Trevor and I have lived together now for about two years. And before that, I'd never lived with anybody. I was like, always had my own place. I loved it. I was like, do whatever I want, eat whatever I want, by whatever I don't need no man. Not that we can't do that, you know, living with someone, but it's more of like, Oh, we want new pillows for the couch. We both have to like them. It's not but it's definitely like an adjustment in terms of wanting to spend so much time together, but also being okay, just being in the same place but not doing things together. Like it's definitely something you've got to get used to because it's it's kind of weird for us to be like, I'm going to go into the other room and do something because you're so used to when you're not like living together dating being together in the same room doing activities together constantly coexisting cohabitating cohabitating. Yeah. Yeah. And it helps when you have that rapport with someone where it's like, I'm going in another room not because I don't like you but because I like you and this works, we can be in separate places and it's fine. And it takes sometimes a little bit of getting used to that, I think, because yeah, it's it's a weird transition from going like we each can go back to our own places and then suddenly it's like, I'm going to just go in the other room. Is that a lot of people like their alone time? It's not necessarily like an insult to be like, yeah, I want to go spend some time alone playing a video game or watching the show. Yeah, totally. Especially in quarantine. Yes. Yeah. I'm going to segue. No, I don't have a smart segue is fine. Aaron, I'd like for you to talk about Blake. Oh, yeah. So our favorite cat girl. It's her birthday today. Oh, yeah. We have the pre orders for the Ninderoid is up. Oh my gosh. And I believe so cute. A t-shirt and a mug for her birthday like in the art store. Yeah. Exclusive new merch. Oh, dang. Yeah, I think it has like some like Zodiac design on it too. It's done by fan favorite Mojo Jojo. Oh, yeah. Their Twitter name. Oh, that's so cute. Yeah. She's a Capricorn. There she is. Yeah, we're having a discussion what she would be or before this. More like catricorn. Yeah. Okay, that was kind of good. Issa just stares at the camera. Oh, wow. Okay, so yes, Capricorn confirmed. Like how we just looked at the shirt before this and been like, oh, yeah, Capricorn. I think it is a full cut. Like that's got to be the cusp. I don't know what the actual Aquarius Day starts on, but it's close. It's like mid 20s, like 22nd or 25th kind of thing. Yeah, I want to call up the store description on it where they said we thought about inserting a goat joke here, like G-O-A-T, but we figured it'd be too Capricorn-y. Good job, store team. Yeah. I want to call out just related to, you called me out for my face, Hannah. There's a meeting I had with them. Oh, damn. It was, all right, it was Carrie and Miles. And I think Carrie said a pun joke and Miles laughed really hard as he normally does. I didn't. I kind of just stared at the camera like I normally do. And I mentioned, Carrie, I heard you. I just didn't laugh. I think Miles just started laughing because I was like, no, no, no, it's fine. You guys are funny. And Miles just goes, I think you guys are funny, but you need to be put in your place. You have to know there's a limit to what I will tolerate. And I was like, oh, no. Oh, man, that's amazing. I love that. You know, you got real friendships, though, when people could call you out on stuff like that. Oh, yeah, those are the real reels. Oh, yes. For sure. Real friendship is being able to bully your friends. I'm sorry. I just got so distracted by your cat. So cute. Oh, there he is. Oh, Miles doesn't focus on anything. Oh, his tail. Oh, my God. Classic. I could watch that all day. I'm sorry. So cute. No worries. Oh, my gosh. Before we started recording, I don't know if I mentioned it before on this podcast, but whenever I'm in a meeting or in this podcast, he thinks I'm talking to him. He wants attention. So he'll like wake up and like rush over to come get some pets and some loving. It's like, oh, I'm not talking to you. Talking to my co-workers. I don't know if this will work for cats, but I saw this trend on TikTok that is so funny to me. It's people are doing it with their dogs, where the wait till their dog is like sitting on the couch with them or like right behind them. And then they'll call for their dog as if they're far away. And every video I've seen, they'll be like, here, Betsy, here, come here, Betsy. And the dog will just be like right next to them being like, are you okay? They look so confused. And it's so funny. And maybe they'll work with cats. I don't know, but I want you to try it at some point. I feel like cats are like fools. Like they're like, if you try out, try that with a cat, they're like, all right, they're losing their mind. Anyway, continue without my business. I feel like cats are smart in the dumbest ways. It's true. It's true. It's like, yeah, how to describe it. Yeah, it's very true. I love that. Dogs are so good. Cats are so good. Your cat is so good. We don't deserve it. Lucas, you're a good boy. Everybody loves you. Oh my God. I love him. A little orange boy. Oh, so sweet. That was a good segue from Blake. Cats, they're great, aren't they? They're great. All right, now give us notes on that topic that we just talked about. We'll do it again. That's how the show works, right? Yeah, exactly. We were asking for topics earlier, and actually Hannah brought up a very interesting thing about fan fiction. So before we really go into it, I think it's common knowledge that I read fan fiction. I was a fan fiction aficionado. Yes, I was. I don't read as much fan fiction anymore. It also directly correlates to whether or not I'm in a relationship. I've been reading a lot more lately or I've been going back into it. As I said before, finding those things that I found joy in again when I was before the relationship. Put a fan pick reading on your calendar. S.O. Time to put it in my bullet journal. Yeah. So I wanted to ask if you guys read fan fiction, what was your history with fan fiction? I can start. I can, because I presented the topic. I definitely, so I was like, I still am, but I was a fandom kid. Like I grew up in fandoms online, and so fanfic was kind of just like a natural part of that. So I definitely read a ton of fanfic when I was younger, and kind of same as you. I tapered off. I feel like when I was, well, no, I definitely still read it in college. I was just very overwhelmed with workload. But I think once I had like a job as an adult, I was like, I'm going to lose my mind. So I had to focus really on work and not fandom stuff as much. But now that I'm older, I'm more into, I'm back into fandom more, and I haven't been reading fanfic as much. But this conversation that I saw that I was telling you about was what made me go, you know, I should get back into reading it because it was a really interesting discussion that I had a lot of thoughts about from having read it a lot when I was younger. So yeah. Nice. You're a fan of fanfiction. I'm a fan of fanfic. We have similar histories. How about you, Erin? So I've got a weird, I definitely do read fanfiction, but I feel like in grade school, like being in like an enriched or AP like English class kind of killed my joy of reading. So yes, I'm very picky when it comes to what I read. I usually only read stuff based on recommendations, usually my partner because they know me very well. And I either will read all of something all at once, like even if it's like a 50 chapter long fanfic, or I just won't read it at all. And yeah, I'm very, very picky on like what it is. So I will partake occasionally, but it's definitely not like my go to in terms of like fan made contents, definitely more fan art and fan comics and whatnot. Give me pictures. Give me all the drawing. Yeah. A dabbler. Yeah, I'm a dabbler. I just like a little sprinkle, sprinkle voice. How about you, Barb? You know, I've read some fan fiction here and there. I feel like it's weird to say, but a lot of it, the majority of the fan fiction I've read has been about either me or characters I play because that is boy. Oh, funny. I stumble upon the internet or people link it to me or whatever it is. I had never really been into fan fiction as a kid, like it was never really something I knew about really. I knew about MySpace and AOL Messenger and that was pretty much it. I feel like I don't know. I just didn't have friends that were into it or wrote it or anything like that. I love it. I love the creative outlet it provides for people. For me personally, now I just get wrapped up in like the actual story itself and like letting my own mind run wild with stories that these people could go into. So I don't necessarily read what other people do, but if I really like some type of book or movie, I might try searching for some, get into a little dabble in it a little more, see what's out there. Yeah. A winky face. Whoa. Leni face. I just finished watching Bridgerton, so I'm like Oh, we talked about this and we're both talking about that on Twitter. I don't know what that is. Oh, well. It is a Victorian region. Regency. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It takes place in London for the most part. Yeah. Period piece about this wealthy family as they're like dealing with this particular season is like their first daughter is dealing with trying to find a match because as little women has probably pronounced marriage is also an economic proposal. So yeah, it's kind of like, Oh, what are the, or they definitely go more into the kind of the emotions of like, I want to marry for love, but there's also some like social, I wouldn't say commentary because everyone knows what they're talking about, but there's some social, a lot of social parties kind of a thing, costumes, really interesting colors. They think the big joke is how everyone doesn't tell, can't tell the brothers apart. Oh my God. Oh my God. They have picked three more similar looking white dudes. And I understand they're like genetics and it's like, not clones. I was like, I literally don't know which is which at this point. Yeah. The big draw Aaron BT. Dubs is that the show is essentially a soft core. This is my impression of watching Bridgerton from start until the last episode. Oh, like I felt like shy when Trevor came in the room and I was like, yeah. Like, should I am I allowed to be watching this in my own Christian home? My Christian mind. It's on Netflix. My home. It's on Netflix. Yeah. I think it's not. Is it nine episodes, something like that? It's also Shonda Rhimes show. Yeah. Yeah. And she was like Netflix, you let me show stuff that I can't get away with on Grey's Anatomy. So let's do this. Pretty much. Because that was, oh, go ahead, Barb. I was going to say it also, that show has one of the things that I love, but hate most in so many shows and movies where you're just like, if everyone were just honest with each other, spoke to each other, this would solve so many problems. Communication. It's so annoying because they even say like, why won't you just talk to me? And they go, I can't. And it's like, maybe they would understand if you did. There's a question by, I think it's ace the nerd. Important question about the show or any show really. Is it gay? Unfortunately, not enough in my opinion. Not enough. Wait, not enough. It's like a sprinkle of gay in like an episode or two. Yeah. It's like having rainbow sprinkles on top, but it doesn't really go any deeper. You think? I honestly, I thought there was going to be more. Me too. Based off one of the plot lines going on, I was like, oh, is he going to, and then unfortunately it didn't happen that way. Or if like the younger sister, I was like that would have been. Oh yeah. Yeah. That would have been it. Spoilers. Y'all are writing your own fan fiction right now. That's what I'm saying right now. Could be. Now I know my way in. I know my pathway. Bridgerton babe. Oh, seven. Daphne doesn't get with the Duke. But yeah, thanks for that Bridgerton talk. I've been wanting to talk about it. I don't have anybody to talk about Bridgerton with. Okay. No one on the RT podcast is watching that show. Unfortunately. I should make Gus watch it. You should. He'd probably love it. Yes, he might. Or he would be so passionately angered by it. He would hate watch all of it to talk about how much he doesn't like it. But you still have someone to talk about it with on the podcast. Very true. Very true. Before I go into the big role, by the way, just another note about Bridgerton is the reason why I consider it very soft core is because they don't stop. Oh, yeah. That's why Barbara was just drinking and just like this because you really expect them to cut away. And then, you know, it cuts to a different scene. It doesn't. I'll learn nothing, baby. Well, especially like early on in the show, there'd be some like sexy scenes and they would cut away from it. You're like, okay, like that kind of show. And then the further on in the show they get, they just keep showing more. Yep. Yeah. It's great. Highly recommended. Yeah. Go watch it if you want like a good eight hours of being like I'm not thinking which we really need in our year of 2020. It's aesthetics over everything. It's just like pretty people, interesting, interestingly, a historical costumes. Yes. It's like a bunch of very good looking people and it's just like a very like romanticized society and like all this stuff. Yeah. It's just a fun show to get lost in. Yeah. I say beautiful too because it's like it's still mostly white cast, but you know, there are some very handsome black people. One in particular who I think should be the next James Bond I think they're talking about. I've heard there's rumors that he is, and that would be impeccable casting. That would be good. So watch Bridgerton if you want to foretell the future. See where his roots are. Yep. But yeah. So just want to go into shouting out. Thank you, our first members for supporting the site. Are you guys a first member? Are you not? You should sign up. I thought you were asking us. Yes, I am. I actually am. Just know that there's always a free trial. So if you guys want to try it out, there's a lot of stuff, really good stuff to catch up on. Ruby can catch up on Ruby right now because they're about to come back. Did they come back already? No. Man, I am at February 6th, I believe. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. That's right. I believe it. So you guys can catch up on Ruby, the most recent volume of Ruby before it comes back. So there's that. Dead little roosters. That's a thing. Dead little roosters is coming. Oh my god. As if you guys don't know, DLR is, the first episode is for the public, but everything else is first only. So if you guys really want to see where this mystery goes, you guys should check that out. And really it's a very, very good, very funny mystery. So very funny. Everyone in chat is going Fert. So Fert, I appreciate this. Fert members. I feel like we're at the point where we have to permanently change the name to Fert. Yeah. I think it's been decided by the people collectively. The chat is so we have to change it. This is a democracy and this is what we're we're going to start a petition from inside, from the inside. And then it's going to change. We toppled the patriarchy and now we're coming for the first man. So we do want to wrap around to our fan fiction talk. Hannah, could I throw to you about why this came up on your radar? Yes, it came up on my radar because I follow a lot of, I don't use my Twitter very well. I don't know. I'm still not that great at Twitter. So I'm not engaged in a lot of fandom discussion, but I follow a lot of people who talk about fandom. And I saw a lot of people talking about this, like particularly egregious fan fiction take, which was to paraphrase, it was essentially saying that why would anyone who is an aspiring writer pursue, use their time for fan fiction when it's a when it's a form of the art that actively makes you a worse writer was the tape. Yes, it was basically saying that fan fact of fan fiction is a lesser form of writing. And there were a lot of people talking about that. And I think I showed you like one of my favorite tweets I saw in response to that was kind of like comparing fan fiction to an artist like keeping a sketchbook. The work in that can be very varied in terms of how much effort, energy, artistic ability is put into it. But it's a how you practice it's an avenue for you to practice. But also a lot of it can be extremely good. And it's just also a met it's also a different means of they didn't get into this, but you know, it's a different means of distribution. And for me, there's a lot of conversation around like access, you know, to how people are able to distribute their work or how they're able to access platforms to share their writing. And yeah, it was just this very interesting conversation around fan fiction that I certainly did not agree with that take. I've read extremely well written fan fiction and I've read extremely terribly written published fiction. So I'm like, there's a real there's, you know, a real mixed bag, I would say, sort of paint with a wide brush and say fan fiction is bad TM was an interesting take to me that I did not agree with. And I even mentioned to you in our early discussion that will stop ranting. But like, that to me, it's interesting a lot because there was also conversations around like romance novels recently that came back into a lot of public discussion because Stacey Abrams writes romance novels, a lot of really successful people either as a side pursuit or have come to it later in life, write romance novels, and it's almost always women and things like fan fiction and romance novels and rom-coms as films are traditionally more media that's created and consumed by women. And so that plays into it a lot. So it was just a very interesting discussion that I was curious if you guys had much experience like reading fan fiction or consuming fan fiction, and how you'd feel about that take because I saw a lot of great discourse around it and discussion around it. And I was like, what a wide brush to paint with, to say fan fiction is bad period end of story. Because yeah, that was such a spicy take just my first reading. Them going like fan fiction is a lesser form of writing. I was like, whoa! Yes, man. Like there's an argument because like you're not coming up with the characters yourself. Like what is the argument? I don't even know that they gave, yeah, that much nuance to their argument. There's been like this whole subsection of I think like creators, especially writers who have kind of like said no to fan fiction or have like kind of talked down on it. From what I remember, I'm trying to remember, correct me if I'm wrong everyone or if you've heard of this, including you chat, but like I think Anne Rice. Oh yes, she's very adamant about not wanting fan fiction. Yeah, she will like do ceases and desists on like people who are just writing fan fiction for her characters. Like long history of people who don't necessarily like that and they're published authors with like high esteem. You know, I think J.K. Rowling used to be totally okay with fan fiction until she decided to change her tune, as we all know. So, out herself as a horrible person. Yikes, the writer for broke that mountain also is very anti-fan fiction, if I remember. Man, it's so confusing to me because like I'm not a writer, but if I were, I would be so honored and humbled if people liked the characters in the store in the plot so much that they wanted to expand on it and they wanted to like explore other avenues for these characters to explore. I don't know, like to me that's a compliment. Yeah, like you're definitely on like that side of like fan fiction is totally okay. I think Hannah, the person who you sent the Twitter thread of with that really hot take, they were saying something along the lines of, I think one part of their argument is that fan fiction is lesser because it's kind of still like, it's like, I'm thinking of it as like kind of a hierarchy thing. If you're contributing to something that's already kind of like low tier, quote unquote, and this is how I thought about it in my head, everything about, if you're contributing to something low tier, then you're just another consumer. Like, you're not really creating your own ideas, so therefore it's lesser. And that's there, I think that was part of their argument as to why fan fiction is like why they considered it that way. Oh, that was a hot take. It's so spicy, guys. It's just, oh man, I need something. Spicy. So, spicy. It's, well, I guess safe to say we're all pretty, we're all pretty great with fan fiction, we think it's a good thing. Yeah, and I think like all things, there's like all things, there's kind of the layers of moderation and expectation, right? So, like, I think there's always going to be, I saw some people in chat saying, you know, what's important is also tagging fanfics with things, making sure that I would argue there's more accessibility in fanfic than there is in mainstream or traditional publishing because many books don't come with the variety of trigger warnings that you can add to fan fiction. So, there's that which I actually think is very helpful and accessible. But I also think there's varieties of difference in, you know, I think if it's, I don't, that's such a can of worms to get into like writing about real people versus fictional people. Yeah. I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of nuance there. But I do think writing about fictional worlds and fictional characters that you're really interested in, like for me, I read a lot of Marauder's era, Harry Potter, because I love the concept of the Marauders and JKR, she who must not be named, never pursued that really in any of her peripheral materials. And I was like, I would have much rather a prequel about the Marauders than Fantastic Beasts, a hot take on the limer maybe. What did I say? Yeah. And you could say it. I'm saying it. And so for me, I was like, I would much rather read about those characters and the world that I've seen a glimpse of, but don't have that much information about. And people who are really talented writers also love that as subject matter and have written these incredible stories about them. So that to me, I think to Barbara's point is like, it's really cool to get to dive into parts of worlds that don't get explored in the main, you know, kind of source material and may never get written about. But I also understand the reticence that some people and authors have about it. But I just think to say, only bad writing is fan fiction. I'm like, what are you talking about? There's garbage being printed constantly. Yeah. Also, it's like, maybe a little sexist, because I know not every fan fiction writer is a woman, but a large, there's definitely like a large demographic of women. Well, and I would assume it's consumed largely by women. Also bad. So like, right? Yeah. Calling it all garbage, you know, some people who read it as being garbage. This was like, yeah, I'm an English major beach. Like I read really great, great novels. And I've also read fanfic and I've seen the variety. You're also a creative director. So like, yeah, so, you know, you know, good stuff when it comes along. I think that's part of your job. I think about like a lot of people don't have access to the ability. I mean, now self publishing is something. But you know, I think also, this is also maybe a spicy take. I don't think all creative pursuits have to be monetized. I don't think you always have to turn something you're passionate about into a money making avenue. And a lot of people write fan fiction because of their love of writing, their love of community, being able to share something about an IP or characters they're really interested in. And so there's this back sort of gnawing, oh god, capitalist like subtext of like, well, if you're not getting paid to do it, it's not legitimate. And it's like, maybe you just enjoy doing it. Maybe it's something people do because they like doing it. And they have a career that also fulfills them and they do this because they enjoy it. So that's I think part of it too. I do think there's this like, well, if you were really a good writer, you'd be getting paid to do it. And it's like, well, then you can be like, well, Brad, are the photos you're taking in your photography class getting you money? That means you're not a photographer, Brad. Yeah, so I don't actually know anyone named Brad. But as I say, that sounds like a familiar conversation from a very personal place with that. Maybe I do think it's I think it's you know, people can do there's ways to pursue your art or things that motivate you. And anything that gets you being creative, I would argue is extremely valuable. Because a lot of times if I'm in like a reading slump, or if I would assume I feel like you're an artist who's in an artistic slump, but you watch something you're really excited by, and you're motivated to draw fan art of it, anything that motivates you to be creative. Excellent. Amazing. We love it. You know, absolutely. Yeah, I know for me, like, not a fanfic writer, but I definitely do a lot of fan art. Yeah, for me, like, like he mentioned, like, it just gives me a reason to create because like, I get so invested in these characters as well from like other IPs and whatnot. But also like, I'm like a full time artist here, art directing. And at the end of the day, when I'm doing art in my personal time, like, I don't want to like have to sit and think that hard about like my own IPs or whatnot. So yeah, fan art is like a good way to like get that creative urge out and like not kind of be like I'm wasting my time almost. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So that's my take. It's a good take. I love fan art. I want to see fan art all the time. It makes me so happy, especially like I'm meme fan art. I love it. I'm always blown away by fan art because it's like, that took you so much time and effort and like so meticulous about the details and everything like that. I'm like, I don't put that much energy into like getting ready in the morning and you did this whole thing for me to see because you like this character that I play or like whatever it is. It's just like, oh my god, that me like that in cosplay to me are like two of the highest forms of flattery. Yeah. Yes. And agreeing with the chat, pay artists. So writers, people who make art, pay them. I'm not saying don't pay them. I'm saying people who are graphic designers, for sure do it. But also, heck yes, pay and credit artists, writers, graphic designers, all of that because it's a lot of work as someone who can't draw to save her life. I don't know how you guys do it. It's magic. It's straight up magic. It's what it's crazy to me when people are like, Oh, I'll pay you with exposure. And it's like, all right, you and your like 200 followers or whatever. Sure. That's really going to put food on the table. Oh my gosh. Another bad take. If anyone says that to anyone you know, certainly either of you, send them to Barbara and I will be like, I will physically fight you. What's wrong with you? You want to see spicy? We'll give them. Oh, yes. The spiciest of takes, which is we will fight you, pay our friends. It'll be the kind of spice that gives you diarrhea for like another two, three days afterwards. Not the like persistent, persistent. The people want that. That's not good. It's not good. I'm like, Oh man, Hannah, you said so many good takes. I know. Like, I agree with all of them. I don't know what else to add because you said it so well. You're so good takes. I'm like trying to think too is like, what else can we really be said about like fan fiction? Because it's like, I want to, I do want to like clarify too. There is a certain point where BT dubs don't, it's how to put this, I don't know if you're trying to send fan fiction to a creator and I don't know if it's like actually legally allowed sometimes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We love fan fiction. We just are not able to read it legally. Yeah. I can go into that a little more because I've had to explain this to some people. It's always like, it's such a bummer when, you know, we meet people or people send us emails being like, Oh, I wrote an idea for Ruby or I like drew up a character that I think would be really good for red versus blue or the show or whatever it is. And like as much as we love to see you guys be creative and to see those ideas, if we then accept the idea and like take it and then look at it, enjoy it, whatever. And then later down the line, let's say there's something in one of those shows that happens to resemble or match up with something that you submitted to us. There could be this issue of like, well, did that person steal the idea from that person? And it's like a whole complicated mess. So just know that we love and support fan fiction and fan art and stuff like that. But we usually can't accept ideas and stuff like that or restricting for that reason. It's not even just interesting. I know, I know like Marvel and DC are like super strict on that too. Like, they won't look at like any sort of like pitch or anything like that. They'll just like straight out like ignore you. So yeah, don't take it personally. It's literally. Yes, please. Yeah, that's what I'll say. I can't read this. Yeah. Thank you for doing it. Yeah. It's it's it's such an interesting line of like what the idea of intellectual property and like fan fiction and stuff like that, especially when you go into, I think, other countries because they might have like different laws. For example, you know, first thing I can think of is Japanese anime and manga copyright laws in Japan are wildly different. Fun fact though, I'm pretty sure a lot of people who make Dojin or Dojinji are like the fan comics and stuff that are based off of like actual like anime and manga IP. They publish them. I don't know if it's necessarily for profit because it's mostly like self published stuff. Yeah, they make it all themselves. But they're only really sold at like five, 10 American dollars, American dollars like a piece. And whether or not they profit, that's that's another question. I think when when you still when you start seeing like these huge amounts of like, I guess, returns and maybe they start eyeing, they start eyeing them a little bit more. But there's this whole culture in that country about making fan work. Yeah. And how it's like, I guess, like, I want to say accepted, but it's kind of just like commonplace, especially when you're in the fandom. So it's kind of interesting going through like artist alley in American conventions where it's like it's this common thing, something I grew up with that I think is like totally okay. But then you might have another like, you might have some cease and desist essentially, like there might be some of these that pop up. And it's just like a fan fandom fan fiction fan art. It's always it's always such an interesting thing for me to kind of wrap my head around in terms of like making it creatively. But also is it is it okay? Is it right? But then you have this other hot take of like, it's it's terrible writing. Yeah. I wanted to bring up there was a part in that thread where they called out like a couple of writers who turned from fan fiction writers to published authors, we're going to talk about Stephanie Meyer, you know, EL James 50 Shades of Grey. Is that her name? Yes, I believe so. Yeah. Yeah, they they what's Stephanie Meyer? No, I don't know. Let's go with EL James. Let's go with Cassandra Clare because she Cassandra Clare definitely was. Yeah. And they became published authors with series and they're arguably successful. And the person who did the thread went, don't talk to me about them because they're terrible writers. And I was just like, oh, kind of a thing. Oh, maybe. Blending credence. And it's just like, it bothers me so much in like the culture we're in now where people feel like if I personally don't enjoy this or don't find interest in it, it's bad. And no one should like it. Like that kind of mentality to me is so bothersome. I don't know where we lost the whole idea of like, well, this isn't for me. So I'm going to move on to find something that is and like, not spend my time and energy shitting on it and the people that like it because it's so common these days. Yeah. Yeah. Especially it's not hurting anyone. That's quite literally what I was about to say. I literally started saying, especially if it's not hurting anybody. Yeah. If it is, then that's a problem. But if it's not, to your point, yeah, it's just, it's, it's not for you and that's totally okay. Not everything is made for everybody. There's lots of stuff I've watched. Some of them are like, I'm not enjoying this. I'm going to watch something else. Yeah. I'm going to go play Overwatch. I'm not going to waste my energy. I think I've ever left a YouTube comment. Yeah. Or like anything like that. Especially if I didn't like something. Yeah. It was like, where did you get your bookcase? I'm like a grandma. I'm like, I really like your bookcase. Where's that from? Yeah. Have you ever been like, um, yeah. So this person on the show was really annoying. And they didn't contribute anything to the conversation. So I just wanted to let you know that because my opinion is really important and you need to know that for your, you know, your own sake. So thank you. I just don't get it. I just don't get it. I'm sorry to get down to negative rabbit hole. No, no, no. Triggered. I think, I think what we're, I think what we're getting at is like, let people make the things that make them happy. And like, if, if an, if an artist or a creator is making something for their own enjoyment that is hurting nobody, why do you feel like you have to qualify whether it's good or not? Because it's clearly not for you. I think because that's the bottom line of that take is that guy was looking at fanfic with a very wide lens and just going, it's bad. And the people who write it are bad. Like they're bad writers. Um, and it's like that by what, what criteria are you using? Why, if it's something you don't like, like let those people write their creative work in peace then. Um, and I, I just don't, I think it's like, especially with stuff that people are doing for their own enjoyment and to build like a community with fellow fans. It's like, let them have it. You know? So again, the barbers point, if it is not hurting anybody, if it is properly labeled, you know, it's, I'm not going to get into the legal side. I do agree. I understand there's collect for, you know, for certain people, there are concerns around who's profiting off of work. Also argue access is a big part of that. How do people get to the point where they can profit off of their work in the first place? Not everybody has access. Anyways. I do, I do want to bring up kind of one of the more complicated, I say complicated, but I think it's because there's, there's been this like a, the surgeons of people who start discussing this, um, in, uh, recent times is kind of the idea of like the, the distinction between fantasy and reality or like what you're writing in fan fiction is that what you're endorsing. Um, and I think it's a bit of, I would say a touchy subject because I think a lot of different people have different opinions on it, especially if you're, if you're thinking, uh, not to make fun or of this or anything, but if you're in the, if you're in the mindset of, what about the children? Then, uh, that's definitely a side of this topic because there is one of the biggest points of fan fiction is being able to write and express things, uh, in different ratings, so to speak. Exploring your sexuality. Yeah. Which is totally fine. Yeah. I, by insight, I wouldn't say insight joke. My, uh, fun history is I, like, I got a lot of my sexual education from fan fiction. And it was not a lot of people did. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I can't be the only one. And I'm sure a lot of people did. Like, I think there is this, there's this, uh, like, I would say, I guess, internet group coming up, um, in public spaces and public internet spaces being, like, if you're doing this, then you're endorsing it, or if you're, like, drawing it or if you're writing it. And there's been this huge discussion in these public forums about, like, or I'll say discourse, you know, it's Twitter, whatever. It's kind of like the whole, the tag that appears on archive of our own, like, if you don't like it, then don't read it. Yeah. Um, and so I think that there's this, like, perception. I feel like it just needed to be said about kind of like there, there has to be this distinction about, like, if you don't like it, it's not that you have to kind of go up to that person and be like, I don't like this. I think you should change because that is, that is, that is rude. Um, let's be real. I think also there has to be a, there has to be a, hmm, I'm trying to find words because this is such a topic. Oh yeah. I threw an entire Pandora's box into this episode. It was like, let's talk about this. It's a good box. It's a good box. Tasty, spicy box. I, I feel, I just, I just want to put this out there. I, I am, I will say, I am firmly in the camp of yes, if you don't like it, you don't participate in it. I also think you should be a smart consumer that, uh, uh, let's just put a real world example. This, I might be throwing myself under a bus. If you're going to come at Belle Delphine, if you're going to come at Belle Delphine, it's like that, that, that is her brand. And she's also very strictly 18 plus. And if you're in that space, then, uh, I think those people who are there, I think they, they deserve to have their discussion about whether or not there should be like warnings of the kinds of content she comes up on. But like she also says herself as well. It's like, this is my brand. I don't know what you guys are doing. I'm very vocal about it. Yes. If you guys don't know, this is the stuff that I say I like. Well, and that's, that's something I actually really appreciate about fan fiction. When, when the tools are utilized, it is much better about self-regulating and categorizing because if people are using the tools at their disposal, you're actually getting things with tags that allow you to filter out things you don't want to interact with. Whereas you can buy a book based off of a dust jacket and have an assumption on what you're going to get. But if you haven't researched the book in advance, um, you know, you're picking it up at an airport and you're like, this could be good. There could be some real, some stuff in there. You're like, I did not sign up for this. I did not know this was going to be in this book. Um, so I totally agree. I think a lot of it is you as a consumer, especially with media online like that, you're like, what did you think you were getting yourself into when you, you knew what this was, hopefully you knew what this was going to be. Um, not with fanfic, but like you're saying for stuff like that. Yeah, I feel like, like, go ahead. Oh, like, I feel like fandom nowadays, not to sound like a fucking boomer or something, but like, it's not perfect, obviously, but it is a lot safer than like how it was when I was growing up as a teen on the internet. Oh, man. Like, yeah, tags, like we're not a thing or we're not used accordingly. And I see some like fucked up shit. So yeah, straight up. I still remember what the internet used to be like back in the day where your parents were just like, never use your real first name. Don't even tell them what country you're living in. Now people are like, here's where I grew up. Here's the place I go get my coffee every morning. Here's this. Here's my school. Here's my age. Oh, my entire house. Yeah, you're like, Oh my gosh. Oh no. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very, very different world. It is also so old. We're not that old. For the record. I don't know. Like anybody like as as I know myself, whenever somebody's like older than me, I'm like, wow, you're so fucking old, even if it's just like, I'm afraid to know how old you are. I'm sure Aaron is younger than us. I try not to do that because I'm scared. I'm the old person. I know I'm the old person at this company. Hannah. There's nothing wrong with us. Well, yes. But honestly, I feel like the, sorry, I love you guys, but like, you are the older one of the year at least. I don't think, you know, unless, you know, little do you guys know I'm actually 50 years old. And that's why I'm such a cat lady that I've just, I've aged very gracefully. But it doesn't change how we feel about you. You're going to be forever enchanting. All of you guys are like a fine wine aging well. Oh, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna melt like a raisin in the sun. I've worked. So this was a wonderful topic. And as much as I kind of threw myself under the bus with that Belle Dufine reference, um, I think we should call our show. We're done already. This was such a wonderful hour. Thank you, Aaron, Barbara and Hannah. You're welcome, Lisa. Thank you for having us. I hope you guys had fun. So much. We got it. We got to continue our discussion at some point. So we can talk about it. We could do, we could talk about this forever. We could. We really could. We could talk about Bridgerton forever. Oh, my God. That's Petra Pascal. We can talk about, oh my God. But they are not the video on demand to watch because someone you should watch is dead little roosters, guys. I knew I shouted out earlier, but just if you guys didn't realize Barbara and Hannah are in it. And ESA. And ESA. Everybody's on me, I guess. We're going to make a last minute cameo for you, Aaron. We're going to slip it in. We're not going to even know. The next stream to watch, according to my handy dandy chart, is Stay Zen with Kaden. We love a queen. And if you guys didn't know already, the streaming apps are also now available for Rooster Teeth, Roku, Apple TV, Xbox or Amazon Fire. Check us out. Thank you, chat for interacting with us. I had a wonderful time looking through your comments. Shoutouts to everyone, as usual. And that's it. That's our show. So much fun, you guys.