 All right. Hello Thanks for coming I'm going to talk about the secret powers of podcasting. So Who am I? I'm Tim Pridlough. I'm living in Germany in Berlin and I do podcasting a lot It actually all started on the radio Around I forgot 20 years ago or so. I liked radio. I like talking into microphones, but I Always had a problem with the distribution part of it the way it's framed by time constraints and intermix with weird How you are supposed to talk to the audience depending on the radio station? So I liked it, but I didn't love it Then podcasting came along and I saw wow That's something for me and I started my own project Could meet our evening Germany meter level Because I found out that if you're in a good discussion, that's where you want to come to, you know If you are on top of everything You reach the meter stage and that's where I want to be I also started a Small open-source software project called pod love which is providing some tools to the general public I'm going to talk about this later on so What is this about this talk? I have Accumulated some experience doing podcasts. I do a lot of podcasts. I have ten shows or so Not all of them are very active around six are more or less on a regular basis and I have a larger audience I can talk to and that's why I Found out How this works or at least what I think how this works and why This should matter to you. So I'm going to talk about why podcast matter at all I'm going to talk about why podcasts are actually useful for a lot of things Maybe how podcasts can help you in whatever you are doing and Therefore why you would probably want to start a podcast and if you want to do a podcast How to do your own podcast But maybe the main question you have in your mind is What are these podcasts? Anyway, so we start with a small Paul Who thinks she knows what a podcast is? Raise your hand if you think you know what a podcast is I would say like something like 80 percent. So there's work to be done who actually listens to podcast Doesn't need to be on a regular basis. I would say it's the exact same 80 percent Who actually does the podcast on his own? That's one or two I'm not going to express this in percentage Who has been thinking about doing a podcast? That's like five times as much you're my audience and Who has no time for podcasts and doesn't care or doesn't care? One that's fine. We can move on So let me clear up some confusing confusing Terminology first, so there's podcasting and there's podcast. What's the difference when I talk about podcasting I Refer to the technology. I refer to how this thing works and Podcasting is basically a distribution technology. That's the idea. It's like how is this stuff actually passed along on the internet and This Technology basis is the cool thing about podcast. That's what made my head click when I first encountered it because it's just Very suited to both the internet and how people should or want to consume content on the internet so it all comes down to three letters called RSS RSS was very super simple Format that was capable of transforming Blocks into a media and then podcast into real media because there was a way how to subscribe to it So it's all about the Description it's all the way how you attach to your source and that you can't really lose track of what's coming Without you having to spend much time or energy to follow up on what's happening If there's something happening, you will know if there's nothing happening. You don't have to care and you shouldn't so that's a good thing and There is this download thing You know the thing you always look for on a YouTube page and it sucks that there isn't one And you know why there isn't one because they want you to stay on the page. They want to be you know you in in this Media Wonderland powered by ads powered by your attention and Podcasts don't care podcast do it the other way around It's all about the convenience and the convenience is the download because as you find out if you are at one of these Camps at least when you are setting them up. There's probably no internet when you need it But the podcast is always there when there's no internet and that's good For no apparent reason here's a list of five people who are very have been very helpful to this whole podcasting thing to work There's Dave Weiner the guy who came up with all those RSS ideas, which still work great and also Like his style and his general setting. He's very cool to follow There's Christopher Leiden who was sort of the first one using this technology Or actually delivering content that was using this technology and also starting the idea of Doing interviews on the internet There's Ben Hammersley from the UK who dropped the term podcast, which was just fine and then there's this weird Adam Curry who encouraged developers to actually Create a podcast client. So Thanks to all those white dudes But there's one more It's you it's the audience. It's the people who do it Podcasting really has this become a thing on its own and it's powered by the people and it's powered not only by a Few but it's really powered by a lot and most people are contributing to podcasting by listening to podcasts So What about listening to podcasts? First of all, I think you should do it. It's a very very healthy thing to do podcasts can help you and Best is Do it while you are doing other things. It's really helpful. It's both helpful for listening and it's both helpful for Doing the things because your mind is Norrish all the Information while you do tasks that are basically boring driving a car running around through the woods Doing your chores housework all these things that tend to be totally boring Actually become super exciting when you're also listening to a podcast while doing it and as an extra hint Get out get out into the fields get out into the woods If you are outside and you're listening to podcasts, it becomes even more super amazing You know, you're on holiday. You walk the streets of a city. You've never been to the podcast You are listening to right now at that moment very moment You will probably remember all the topics attached to all those streets and things you saw for years to come It's really amazing how these things match up and another recommendation is Use the pod. I know many people think the pod is the iPod But I really more refer to its original meaning. It's this small thing you have in your hand It's where everything is where you store your stuff that you need So today the pod is of course the smartphone has helped podcasting a lot And the good thing is that there are so many dedicated apps that are delivering podcasts Probably the way you wanted to There are many many many clients available and you can just choose any try them all find out what suits your needs if you're More in a oh, I need to listen to them one after the other and I can't get enough of it Or if you want to have something that makes it easier to pick easier to select even parts of a podcast So that you can really find a mode in which Podcasting come to your life in a way that suits your life along with clients comes Directories and also platforms and it's something I think You should be aware of Depending on your opinion here in the beginning there was iTunes or how it's called these days Apple podcasts There's some general misunderstanding of what Apple podcast actually is it is basically a directory It's a bar directory of feeds so those URLs that actually point to the RSS content and That's it. That's all of course they attach all the extra data ratings and Other statistics to it more and more But as a podcaster Apple podcast is still very friendly to podcasters because everything that is displayed apart from comments, of course is More or less provided by you you are in control and being in control I think is one of the more important and Really nice things about podcasting in general. I think there is no need for platforms Of course, there are a lot of platforms coming up. Google is starting a podcast site Which sounds like the same as Apple is doing? But it's not really because then they want to host your stuff deliver your stuff. There might be good technical reasons for that, but Everything that's being taken away from you You should think about this twice even More this applies to things like Spotify other platforms. Basically, they're all inviting you to a walled garden And once they're all there, they want to define the rules and that's a problem and I will Expand on this later on. There are other open source directories that also serve you as a resource to find stuff like the food project which Originated in Germany. There are others fit is quite nice. So I can recommend that Yeah, I think that's something you should be aware of So Why do podcasts matter to people? What makes it so attractive? First of all, you find out if you're interested in a thing There's a good chance. There's at least one podcast about this thing and it doesn't matter how far from Other people's reality. This thing is you are very special interest niche is probably already covered if it's not That's your podcast niche That's where you have to go for because there's nobody's already talking about it And you think it's interesting as a good chance other people will find this interesting too And that's some kind of people you want to talk to So these are very vertical target groups. How you would You know call this in marketing speak but it makes sense because everybody is Totally going crazy about mass markets large numbers and so on but in the end it doesn't really matter so much how many people you actually reach It's like how good is this contact you are making to these people and even more important Who is it? You're actually reaching if you reach 10 super important people of a certain niche That's much more than talking to 1,000 people who don't care And that's why podcasts are really really good in So podcast are also a very independent medium that's complicated to support I think along with blocks podcast have been able to retain this independence first of all because they are not Supported by platform so much If you talk about video your video is usually not mattering much if it's not on one of the big platforms or The big platform because people don't find it people are not used to Discover video on any other way than by searching a platform. Maybe they use search engines sometimes That's also a possibility But most people just turn to YouTube and look for it and if it's not there it doesn't exist That's not yet. What's happened to podcast and I hope this stays this way Even more important It's In my opinion the most personal medium there is What do I mean by that it's it's very personal in two ways It's very personal in the way it is consumed You plug your earphones in you walk around the streets. You're totally on your own and voices up talking to you You know, it's a very intimate Relationship it's it's nobody is watching you while doing it and even if somebody is watching you They don't know what you're listening to so it doesn't matter This frees your mind. It's something different than looking on a screen Also It's very personal in the way it is delivered Podcasts usually tend to have a totally different tone when talking to their audience then the way you find people speaking in videos on TV or in radio so even radio is different and If I would give this talk in a radio voice, you will notice and you will hate it. So It's the voice that matters And I think many people are overlooking the power of the voice in podcast saying Why is the voice so important? First of all It's our primary communication communication system If you meet somebody you'll not start writing notes on paper and passing them around to talk to them and if you Finally meet somebody and can actually listen to somebody that forms your opinion much more than anything else you might have read It's very important to calibrate How you think about other people and that way it's both Capable of building trust and the opposite of course too because then you know like I Don't really like this guy Because you know something is wrong because you can transport so many things in your voice and you can't really hide behind your voice So the voice is very important for Credibility it's very important for emotion and of course the irony and whoever has Written something on the internet Published it and there was irony in it Guess what happens? People misunderstand you either because they want to or They just don't get it and it might be your fault might be their fault The problem is writing and reading means extra encoding and decoding and The voice is basically encoding decoding free of course there is encoding and decoding But that's more or less done in real time everything else is work for your mind So that's why the voice is so important and that's why podcasting is important as a medium on the internet because it takes this Situation of the radio of being the primary delivery of voice and Gives it back to the people Another thing that's happening is that there is far less prejudice involved when you are listening to people The images are gone. You don't say like oh, I don't like how this guy looks, you know This look is in this what you think of people just by looking at them without really having interacted with them That's absent in the voice world because the first time you notice somebody there's already communication involved voice is communication and you You your opinions are delivered on what you communicate with or what you what gets communicated to you So that's helpful Especially for some communication. I'm not saying the voice is something that's totally free of prejudice Of course, if you have a weird voice or something that is considered to be a weird voice It will still be a problem to get past these prejudices, but it helps a lot. Believe me. So Having said all these things you probably think like that sounds nice. Maybe I would start my own podcast So how do you start a podcast? First of all, it's easy to say you just have to do it don't overthink it just grab a microphone and start doing things and Publish them always as well because doing a podcast recording it and Storing it on podcast 1.mp3 Doesn't really help it needs to get out But of course if you really want to have some kind of format that is at least a bit successful in the terms of what I Told you before that you want to reach a certain audience You need to think about what to do what to actually do So I think it comes on to two things First of all think about What do you want to convey? What do you want to? Actually put out what is your original content? What's your original? Interest what matters to you? That's much more important of what you think of what others expect just Find the source of information where you can actually Talk about where you really have the feeling that you need to clarify Need to explain want to discuss Think it matters. Maybe it's something you don't understand And you want to learn by talking about doesn't matter, but these are the most important decisions in the first step Think about what what matters to yourself and then you can go to the next step and think about Who is it for? Who do I want to talk to? Who is it that might be interested in what I have to say and it doesn't really matter again? How many people these are? It's just like who is it who do I want to talk to if I have three free wishes Who are the kind of people I want to be sitting in front of me so that I can talk to them? That's the audience you're looking for and you find this audience by Talking to them without knowing them Because if you start talking to them, they will find you the audience is coming to you just by Radiating the right stuff So when you think about who to talk about you have to think about community in general and When you are when you want to grow your podcast when you want to grow the audience always grow Naturally and I call this the ring theory because I think it sounds cool and Actually got rings involved Start with your core Always talk to the core Community the people that you think you know Maybe even the people you already know like all your very close friends or People who are involved what you want to talk about and then continue doing it and Then by time you will find out that you are you know You find out what it is you're really interested in which might deviate a bit from what you originally started with You find out what works You find out where you get feedback You work with the feedback and then what happens? people who are listening to you Start talking to their friends And those friends are going to be invited. Hey, you really should listen to this podcast because it's interesting or Will change your life or whatever that's how it grows and Then you will have this outer ring of friends or friends or friends that are actually You know also interested but didn't know that you exist or didn't even know that this topic could be that interesting and once you have Reach this state of growth Then you might be able to reach a public that didn't even think about that This could be interesting at all or you know probably even have heard about podcast but now find podcast interesting because That's what you talked about so grow from within to the outside and always remember Numbers are relative and don't really matter. It's about the quality of your audience that matters And it's also very important that you find your own Comfort zone be comfortable in what you do Don't think that you need to talk about something because somebody told you so or you think it could increase your audience You know whenever you try to appease unknown people you will probably fail So do this over and over again and once you have started your podcast Make it 10 10 podcasts and you go 10 shows and you could call it a podcast That's my experience usually coming to 10 can be very very complicated Once you are adding a digit things get a lot easier You know what you talk about want to talk about you know what you don't want to talk about you know How you want to talk about it and so on and so on and so on Of course, some people might be able to find it sooner. Some people need longer, but I would say ten is a good thing So then at a certain point you need to think about Who is doing this podcast and how are you doing it and? That's not that easy to answer You might have no friends interested in your topic and then you start with monologues You grab your microphone and you just talk to the invisible guy Somewhere out there. Hello. I know you're there. Here's what I thought about and this is a random collection of my thoughts Some people are really talented in this, but I think most are not if you are not the kind of Person who could just stand on front of a stage and out of nothing, you know talk endlessly about whatever Monologues are probably not your thing so Don't push it if it doesn't come naturally. It's probably not for you Much better Dialogues, I think this is sort of where The majority of podcast work Dialogue means to people could be more the style is important that you discuss which is other One person presents information the other person asks about it Did I understand this right? What do you mean by this? Do you really think this is so important? I've never heard of it The other person and this can change throughout the podcast, of course Who is playing which role is sort of the stand-in for the audience? At least a temporary stand-in for the audience Filling this need for somebody listening to it's like I know I know I want to I want to ask a question Stop stop stop this permanent wish of podcast listeners to somehow jump into the studio and ask a question That's a good chance that once you are doing your show in a dialogue that you already have this dynamic And that's very pleasing to listeners who Somehow will think like oh, yeah, well, that's exactly the question. I wanted to ask and then they feel very warm and welcome in your dialogue for Some things you might open this up to a larger group. I'm not sure there is a real Limit on how many people people can endure on by listening to them. I would say Five maybe but really depends on on on the people in the group. I've seen groups who are Really structured never talk into each other Somehow know that it is very complicated to remember names and somehow You know do this. Oh Tom, what would you say about this? You know Cara have you thought this through if you are helping the audience by Inserting cues or you just have the blessing of totally different voices. They're easy to recall that might work but always Think about people listening to it and if everybody is just talking about each other all the time at the same time This can become a train wreck pretty soon How much time is left 20 minutes? Yes So another question is Publishing cycles How much do you actually need to talk? And also the question of how long the podcast is actually I haven't prepared a slide for this but Talking about this it really depends Some people think short podcast are good because people Don't have the attention span to follow along podcast. I Can tell you from my experience the only request I ever had was oh My god, you could have talked another hour about this that wasn't detailed enough Podcasts are for details podcast are to get into stuff Really really really down to the core and that's what why people are listening to it So don't think so much about the length. You can stop them. You can rewind them You can listen to them again. And if you don't like it, you can skip ahead. There are chapter marks You can use all these tools don't think about the legs. That doesn't mean you have to repeat The same stuff over and over again and just talk about the same thing all the time That's not helpful, but the the length itself is not so important What might be more important is the the cycles. What can you do? You can do a daily podcast. Oh My god, this is a lot of work. I want you don't do it Don't do it unless you are really into the podcasting stuff. You have your setup ready Your life can accommodate an hour every day or more to support this This is probably only for professional podcasters But it's also only for content that really changes on a daily basis and needs commenting on a daily basis because Otherwise, you just run out of topics and will repeat yourself Much more helpful and probably a good start for anything that is related to news ongoing events things that change regularly is the weekly period because in a week We think about things in weak terms. We think about like what happened last week Oh in a week things can change and so on people remember weekdays and know when your podcast is supposed to come out So a lot of very helpful things in terms of work. It's still a lot of work Weekly podcast are a lot of work. I always wanted to have the word fortnightly on my slides. So now is the time Every two weeks actually works pretty good for a lot of things. That's something I could recommend if you are really looking for something that Really has the regular podcast stamp on it, but you are still working towards The capability of doing on a regular basis every two weeks is good for both producers and consumers of content works well you always have a free week where there is nothing which is a relief and Same goes for people listening to it actually people who somehow are still in the process of Come to know you Understand what this is about they can drop out for a week They couldn't even drop out for two weeks, but it's always possible to follow up on what you are delivering again Periodic Question is much more interesting than the length of the podcast You can have like double length, but only two weeks and it works better than half of it every week three weeks also fine very good for stuff that is Somehow eternal content, you know interviews about topics that you can listen to in five years from now And they're still valid, you know like how the railway works or what the history of the Romans were That's not going to change so soon and you can increase this to monthly and I think that's the end don't do a podcast that is You know taking longer than a month to come out on a regular basis But you can also do a podcast whenever you feel like So irregular podcasting is also fine once people are interested in it and in the end doesn't really matter So if you prepare your podcast There are probably two rules you could follow first rule is do not prepare Overprepared podcasts are Sometimes very problematic because you tend to know everything in advance and then you are coming up with questions just to somehow You know Make this specific answer you're looking for to come out. That's super boring Super boring for everybody. Don't do it Another way to approach is Prepare a lot, but this more applies to stuff where you are somehow translating information That has come out if you are reading the news for your audience Following a news cycle making your own opinion really trying to understand what Happened then it's really very important to Really prepare because once you start talking and you don't really know what was happening before That's where it really becomes problematic for everybody So in general, there's this golden rule of thumb. So you have to find your balance Yeah also Important especially because as I said before podcasts are such a personal thing Do interact with your audience if the audience is willing to interact with you feed from feedback Everything you get is valuable things that are good things that were bad What you could also do because this is really the The thing that that will keep up your motivation in the long run You might be motivated to do things without, you know, you don't care who's listening to it Because you just wanted to say it but at a certain point the motivation is going to change and then you really have to find a way to interact so Accept the commenting culture as it is it's usually much better in the podcast world It's not like in blogs because people actually have to listen to what you say because they before they can comment If they comment without listening to you you will and everybody else will immediately notice that this was happening So you don't care So I would say the troll quota in podcast comments is Miniscule compared to the written web it's fascinating I'm not saying there are no trolls. They are But right now the situation is much better. I got lots of feedback from podcasts who were on like problematic issues Gender equality feminism and so on if you do a blog on feminism, oh boy, you know, you hate the internet If you do a podcast on it, it's different. It's really really different the commenting culture is much better after a while you might To consider to do it live that doesn't make sense for all the podcast But if you are sending your podcast live and you're capable of doing this Then you will attract people into a live chat for instance And you get feedback in real time. That's more work So only do it once everything else is set But it can be helpful to really find out who are your core Contributors and if it's only the people themselves that you find that you can ask for favors or get into a dialogue with after on It's helpful and every now and then if your podcast has been kind of popular Do it on stage also very satisfying thing to do I've done it many times now and I can't stop doing it so At the end some hints on what technology you need and You're always here like oh my god audio. That's so complicated and so Expensive and you can do so many things wrong. That's true Here is a guide to fast success First of all, you need a microphone and I can only recommend headsets loudspeakers headphones and Microphone in combination is just the best. Why first of all very compact You don't need a stand, you know, there's no Table where the microphone erupts when you start tapping on it and these things you always have this Constant distance to the microphone, which is especially good if you talk to people who have no experiences with Microphones and don't know that makes a huge difference. How far away you are from your microphone so The good headsets are expensive by them anyway Because if you buy cheap you pay, you know, you buy three times. This is the model I'm using We don't have to do it. It's the biodynamic DT 297 there are other options, but the good stuff is always in the same financial board park All right, then you need a mixer because you want to you know, listen to what you say and In case you wondered why you need to have a headphone well first of all think about intros jingles audio you want to play back to everybody in the situation and Comment on so headphones are helpful anyway, but also you can have very relaxed positions you can like sit meters or yards away from each other how you say and You can still talk in a calm voice Also, it's a much more intimate experience for everybody people just calm down. So headphones are fine But you need a mixer to mix all this together to create the signals recorders this has been a nightmare until recently because How to wire everything up and then the recording and the cabling and so there's so many things you can do wrong But there is help Zoom has finally delivered a device that everybody wants. It's the L 12 live track. It's a mixer It's a recorder. It's very good for live setups, too And it's a mostly digital and you can still use it as an audio interface at the same time So you get mixing recording and delivery to computer that you might need in one box and That's it That's what you need for a professional produced podcast these days There are the options available and if you want to like walk around and be more mobile You will probably need other looked for other options. But yeah Actually, there is a step three Because there's added value to record your stuff on a computer while you do it You can still use this Recorder, you know, there's an SD card. You put the files on your computer. Everything is fine but for a more Capable environment recording to a professional audio software has its values and There is an interesting solution of course from Germany It's built on the American digital audio workstation Reaper, which is super fast super cheap and very ugly to use In comes ultra shy, which is a System that somehow skins the system adds functionality Removes all the crap you don't need as a podcaster. So turns a Digital audio workstation meant for creating music into an audio workstation meant for creating Podcasts you can do live chapter marks. It Renders your stuff perfectly Automatically adjusts loudness levels and so on. It's an amazing box of stuff It comes for free. So you bust just buy Reaper for a few bucks and you add ultra shy in your set If you want to do publishing, of course, I have to now recommend our own project There are other solutions, but not so many and not so good First of all the potlough team has produced the potlough publisher. It's actually a plug-in for WordPress So for many people this is already an environment. They might already use that's readily available and widespread And many people know how to deal with its insufficiencies so With potlough publisher you get an integrated solution or you can just pour your podcast in Produces the feed and everything has detailed analytics other things It's very nice We have also added the subscribe button which makes subscribing to podcast easier for people so Whenever you put up this button people can just press a button Select the podcast client they want to use and Then if you select it you can it automatically opens the Podcast app or you can copy the URL whatever you want and of course you can customize this button to look like you want Certain styles is multi ling will and so on so that works fine It's in widespread use already Best of all, there's a web player that comes with it. So not only do you Published your podcast to podcast clients in a feed. No, you can publish it on the web It's a full-blown player that works really nice and has a lot of very sophisticated features including coming soon Transcripts that are actually moving while you're listening to it and it's super awesome and the future so That more or less concludes what I have to convey to you. It was my personal podcast for you and If you have some questions, I'm happy to take them Do it there's a microphone it's been handed around Hello, do you have any advice for recording podcasts on location at conferences events emf etc Recording but like like here. Yeah Get a caravan. That's helpful because then you have seats and a table. That's how I do it Is that what the kind of us? Can you take the microphone again? sorry, I Work for a publisher and we do a lot of conferences and events and What we're trying to do is speak to people after they've presented a paper and then grab them for 15 minutes before They then go off and do their own thing The problem that we've got is quite often. There's background noise. There's Portability of equipment There's mixing after the event that you think oh god. I wish we managed to isolate that and so on so any advice really well First of all, I think the background noise is usually not a big problem once you work with headphones So that's especially where headphones really come in handy doing that so I'm gonna do that You already do that. No, no, we haven't been so I'm going to implement that Yeah, so some people like these clip-on microphones and think especially if there's a camera think that headphones look ugly I don't think so and you know if that's your problem You won't be able to produce something if you have a headset. I think you're said I've done this it works Well, the main problem is the organizational part. How do you get these people in time? So you need a crew? real Planning and logistics to have everybody show up at the right time and then you know know who to talk to and so on That's like there are many aspects. We can talk after the talk Over there Hello, I was just wondering you were talking about audience like community on the web and responding to Comments and so on How many platforms on the web would you want to use to stay in touch with your audience? I mean you were saying wordpress Would you just stick it stick with wordpress or would it be good to have a I mean I don't particularly want to do a blog I don't yeah, so I think it's a matter of personal taste. I Try to get everybody to comment on my own blog for various reasons because that's like where you can find all the show notes and You know the transcripts and everything so people are actually at the right place where there is the the the primary information Of course, I get also a lot of feedback on Twitter I like Twitter because I think the follow-follower model works really well for podcasters And I personally hate Facebook, so I don't use it. Thank you Thanks for the talk So it does monetization work, okay with this model because you don't just pick up it. Sorry Because you don't have adverts really in in podcast so much Okay, let's talk about money. I haven't included in this slide because I don't think it should be The most important thing Yeah, yeah, I do agree, but but I think that's one reason why people might go to Like Spotify or something, you know, yeah, so It's a culture thing In America and as far as I know also partly in the UK People think that ads are the primary way to go. I Don't think so. I don't like ads because they get in in the way. They are somehow Interfering with my message and my voice and that's something I don't want, you know So it's a personal preference of mine It is also possible to do it without Especially because you have this very or you are capable of Establishing a very strong relationship with your community and when you have a very specific topic You are talking about that people find valuable They will be more than willing to support you Financially on a direct way You could choose to go to one of those funding platforms They have their problems as well. I think they take still a bit too much of the money, but there might be helpful Reaching out It's something I don't use as well these days You can find your model, but I Think it's always worth thinking about not doing with ads in the first place and only if you Don't see any other solution then maybe Thanks. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I was just wondering about like You know just how how people make money. So it's really about building the community to So so so so for people doing professionally they they build a very strong community to That then supports them directly I'm not sure I got the question. What's It's it. It's not really a question. It's just something you know, sort of like saying Instead of going on video So that you can share ads you're you're you're more building a strong community All right, so How much time we're running out of time so maybe last question Thanks. Yeah, just a very quick question. It's it strikes me that podcasts are primarily a you know a reflective medium They're great for talking about issues and sharing information around communities, but What about intervening in issues? So I'm interested in some of the podcasts that maybe is able to intervene in is is faster moving Is there a role for podcasts in in that kind of sphere? I'm not sure I got your question right. Well, how can a podcast intervene if so if you've got a fast moving Well political situation there's lots going on now intervene. Yeah, um, I think the podcast are the place for debate Because they take their time and they can provide the necessary context to understand it I'm listening to the Remaniacs podcast because that's the only place where I think people are actually Talking about the right things when it comes to Brexit. There's no other source I found where people are not totally out of their mind and Same goes for for many other things So that's where I think you don't really have to you know be in the same Speed with the news flow is actually worth of taking a break resting on a few issues and you know build more Understanding and provide more insight into you know, why is this happening? Has this happened before what can happen in the future? I think it's this context and it's also the opinion people are actually looking for they don't necessarily have to Agree with everything you say, but they just like to find people who actually have an opinion You know, that's not just formed by media bias and other things and that's where podcast are really helpful All right, so if you have more questions, I'm happy to take them outside. Thanks for listening. Bye