 There has since Julian's arrest in April of 2019 been actually a change in the narrative in the mainstream media and amongst mainstream human rights groups and press groups in that there's actually a consensus now. Everyone's able to sort of get beyond you know maybe personal differences you know if they work together and that kind of thing but there's there's consensus amongst all the leading groups, all the leading newspapers, all the press freedom groups that these charges are outrageous and that this poses the greatest threat to press freedom arguably of our lifetimes. So whether that's amnesty, human rights watch, the ACLU, freedom of press foundation, you know various UN special reporters as Brian mentioned, you know they've been editorials from the New York Times, The Guardian and even Alan Rusbridge from The Guardian said you know I had my bumps on the road with Julian you know definitely had problems but I absolutely am against these charges and this is not about him this is about what this means to the press globally. So I think that's a really really welcome development. We've also seen from The Guardian just in the last few days a really powerful a couple of stories from somebody that I hadn't heard from before who was the Reuters bureau chief around the time of the collateral murder video which I'm sure most people on this call know that Chelsea Manning had seen that video and was horrified by the murder of Iraqi civilians and two Reuters journalists and out of sort of her moral conscious sought to make those documents public through WikiLeaks. Now the Iraqi bureau chief from Reuters Dean Yates just did a couple of really powerful pieces on The Guardian Australia and I think it's really worth looking at that story and looking at as Brian was saying what were the lies that were covered up and basically Reuters had been shown I think a little bit of the video and Reuters had asked to see the full video they weren't and the video was really a sort of an incredible historical document because you you see these these US gunmen basically laughing when they're blowing up these rescue workers when they're murdering these civilians and journalists it made me think of you know these uprisings we're seeing around the world today around state violence against black people in America and the kind of smirk of that that that cop in Minneapolis the smirk as he held down George Floyd and it just reminded me of the laughter that we had in that collateral murder video and I personally feel that there's a connection to be drawn with looking for transparency and accountability with US state violence in the US against black and brown people and journalists as we've seen in these riots and US state violence around the world with black and brown people and journalists so I think there's a there's a connection to be drawn and as Brian said this is about transparency and accountability and truth and just to remind you what this case is actually about people try to complicate it because it's it's convenient to complicate it but it's actually quite simple it's not about 2016 it's not about Sweden it's quite simply about the 2010 Iraq and Afghanistan war logs and the state department cables and incredibly embarrassing for the US and it brought out a lot of war crimes and WikiLeaks in coordination with other global media outlets like the New York Times and their Spiegel and others published these and these were hugely historic and impactful events arguably led to the withdrawal of troops from Iraq because Iraq said we're not going to give immunity to US troops anymore so the question is do we want to live in a culture where we can fight for transparency and accountability or do we want to make it okay to persecute the publishers who work on these materials? Chelsea wasn't imprisoned they're trying to give Julian life in prison and you know this is a watershed moment you know are we going to sit back and sit this out or are we going to show up and realize that if they do this to Julian they're going to do this to journalists around the world so I think it's an extraordinary opportunity for folks like folks on this call to sort of stand up and get engaged and see what can be done ahead of September 7th which is when the extradition hearing will be in London. The US establishment you know they will go to any extent to suppress anyone who tries to expose their war crimes and so how important were the Wikipedia stories to our understanding of the Afghan and the Iraq wars? Well I think again I would refer you to look at Dean Ape's story in The Guardian the other day again he's the Reuters bureau chief but really you know Chelsea Manning's bravery and letting those Iraq and Afghanistan war logs and the collateral murder video come out really just showed how many lies there were how much cover-up there was as with every war and it led to the Iraqis saying that they wouldn't allow US soldiers to have immunity for what they were doing in Iraq and it led to the withdrawal of troops so it had a real impact and if you just google the number of stories that there were from every major media outlet it got so much coverage not only Iraq and Afghanistan but the whole world. I've worked on a number of projects also about Latin America where what the cables revealed about you know relations between countries you know old business of the US interfering in Latin America so much was revealed so it makes you think of key moments in the Vietnam War when there were revelations about atrocities and that turn the tide and the conversation with Vietnam so it you know it's a huge huge service and there's there's a lot of sort of films and documentaries you can look about it and I sort of encourage everyone to do that. Could the panelists suggest how we could push through the media luck out on the facts of the Sanch case and the second part of the question is what could be done to make this more mainstream and how could the panelists contribute to doing that ahead of September 7th. Susie do you want to go first? Yeah yeah you tell us. I would urge everyone to write some suggestions in the comments to be honest because I'm sure we've got an amazing audience of people around the world so I'm going to give my humble ideas but I actually am going to ask you all to put your ideas and I'm sure there'll be some eccentric ones but I'll give you my two cents. I think one is reminding people that there is an amazing opportunity right now and there's been some great journalism done. There's an investigative journalism outlet in the UK called Declassified. They did some amazing coverage of the hearings thus far around the extradition and they found some really glaring and egregious conflicts of interest of people involved in the case in the UK. Really like if that had been picked up by the mainstream media that would have had huge impacts so all to say we have the opportunity to amplify the journalism that's being done. We have an opportunity to share journalism that's being done by the Guardian like the Guardian Australia in recent days around deniates for example and to remind folks that this is there's a lot to be covered and there's a lot of sort of opportunities to bring back focus to what this case is really about. We can remind people that you know when Bernie was asked in the debates I think you know would you prosecute under the Espionage Act he said no and we can remind people that the Obama Department of Justice who was no friend to whistleblowers and was highly litigious but even the Obama Department of Justice was not able to prosecute WikiLeaks and so it is the Trump DOJ that is doing this. So to remind people no matter your feelings and massage that if you are supporting this prosecution and this extradition request you are supporting the Trump Department of Justice and you could be asking Biden to pledge not to prosecute. I think in the UK we can draw some attention to the fact that even Boris Johnson has said that the extradition treaty between the US and the UK is worth looking into and it's probably lopsided. Jeremy Corbyn I think asked him a question in Parliament a few months ago like in February regarding to another case and Boris Johnson himself formally a journalist said you know what it's it's worth looking into and this seems like it's a lopsided agreement because the US always seems to be sending people that way but not the other way. So there's a lot to dig into it's it's there's a lot of strong arguments against the extradition there's a lot of mainstream support so there are opportunities there but I think we'll all be digging through the comments here and would welcome your input because I'm sure you've got lots lots of suggestions. What effect do you think this attempt at prosecution will have on aspiring journalists and whistleblowers? I think I can't even begin to imagine really. I think some people maybe now I think are falling for this there's a bit of a red herring around oh uh WikiLeaks was it was it really journalism or not maybe maybe it doesn't apply to me um but that's not the point there they're criminalising the practice so all journalists will be affected um so I can't imagine how how it can't have the most enormous impact ever and not just on you know what the US does around the world but if we if the US can extradite an Australian citizen from the UK to the US what does that mean like the Saudi can do that with a journalist in some country or Modi or Netanyahu like where does it end so I just can't imagine I think I can't even imagine what it's like and I think it's really fascinating if people want to sit this one out thinking like oh I'm at this like I'm a different category or something so you know like I'd love to be wrong. How high does the body count have to be before any western political figure is subject to the kind of heavy-handed legal treatment dished out to a sange and the second question is the British legal profession have been largely signed and signed the shameful events at Belmarsh why is there a lack of outrage by professionals at the scandal that is unfolding? I think there has been a bit of outrage I mean I hate to sound like Mary Poppins like keep trying to sort of plug good news but I think there was just the other day a big letter that came out there was a big jurist letter signed by I forget how you know dozens or hundreds of jurists around the world you know there was a big doctor's letter with about 60 doctors from around the world saying that you know Julian could die at Belmarsh you know he's got chronic lung conditions from having been in confinement for so many years so I think the sort of organizations the you know it's it's being covered but it kind of needs to be amplified a lot more I think I think but you know as others have said on this call I think there's an effort to make things sound a lot more confusing than they are and make a lot of noise and yeah to make things just you know it's a pretty simple situation you know if you're looking at legally this is clearly you know a political case Julian we know was spied on in the embassy all the celebrities who went and met with him everything was spied on all the lawyers meetings were spied on there's a Spanish legal case right now about the surveillance company that was hired to give all the surveillance materials of Julian's legal meetings so that's a huge huge breach of due process not to mention the fact that one of the points they're trying to use in this in this extradition is saying that there was huge damage done by the leaks but that's never been demonstrated even in courts in the US they've under oath the prosecution have said that there's actually no demonstrable damage in terms of loss of life or anything like that so you know the points of the case are fairly clear in a way um and I think there is institutional support but um whether that can sort of break through and and everyone can kind of get a little bit more um activated like folks on this call remains to be seen it's a it's a difficult news cycle um and and there's been a you know an excellent job done in kind of trying to demonize him um but you know uh as many people have said they obviously go for the person who seems like most controversial like they weren't going to go and do this against the New York Times or the Washington Post at this point but that doesn't mean they won't you know we've just seen in the last few days um uh journalists blinded in the US on US streets by by police and um that's now sort of business as usual this sort of war on the press around the world so yeah uh from the court proceedings it seems like that the outcome of this trial has already been determined and how can we do what can we do to resist this and a similar question um what can he do as an American other than contacting the senators and congressmen kind of support the campaign and I guess that goes for British the British people as well and activists as well that other than lobbying what can we do to you know support the campaign and before before especially before the 7th of September so I think these are the final two questions briefly so the don't extradite uh Assange website has a bunch of actions so that can be done um you know contacting MPs petitions all sorts of campaign actions so I'd go there and and see what's going on there's a number of different um campaigning groups around the world there's a really good European ones Australian ones but I check out don't extradite Assange um I would say you know I don't think it's a done deal at all in the UK um the hearing begins on September 7th that in London but then depending on what happens um there are various appeal procedures and then it can go to the European courts so this could take a few years if Julian survives Belmarsh which for those folks abroad you know is sometimes talked about a little bit like a British Guantanamo you know they're Covid cases he's um you know in really difficult um prison situations there but I think Julian's partner Stella has said this this this needs to be resolved you know in UK ideally or in Europe once it's gone to the US God forbid it's it's you know it's it's there it's more of a excuse my language a shit show um but there's there's still a lot a lot of time not a lot but there's some sometime pre-september 7th and then there are appeal processes so that would be my two cents