 Okay, as we promised, we've been joined by Dr. Lawrence Oshoba, who is a lecturer in the University of Lagos. He is a stakeholder, because if you're a lecturer, by implication you are a member of ASU, and whatever affects ASU as a body, affects the individual too, who belongs to that group. We'd like to say welcome to you, Dr. Oshoba. Thank you very much for using the program. Okay, let's go straight to it. We heard the brawl now is half salary for October and all that. So take us through what is really going on now, because the strike has been called off, and now this umbrella is still coming up. What is really the position now? Thank you once again. Members are very, very disappointed in that fragment, not only in which you could get your own signed agreement with the UN, but also in the memorandum of understanding and memorandum of agreement. It can also not keep the integrity that the gentleman's agreement with the speaker of the others, such as who promised that Mr. President will speak, and that we should expect this positive response only for our October salary to be amputated as it were. The salary I was paid is not just a poor answer, but rather the one that cannot be scientifically calculated based on realistic formula. What do I mean by that? You are giving a salary when you remove 100% of all deductibles. The taxes were removed 100%. Every other, every charge, whatever other indictments or deductions were removed 100%. But the balance was not even paid based on the number of days that you assume you work during the month. This has been untold, despised on members and colleagues. So the mora currently is everywhere in Europe, and we have shown our disagreements or our disappointments with the purpose that it did for yesterday. So sending the signal to all who cares to know that academics are not casual workers, or you can determine their pay based on the number of days they work. In fact, one thing is called academic freedom. Academic freedom by implications means we can plan and do our work based on our best in training. We can deliver that job done. So it is very, very wrong for the government to say we have not worked, even while we are on strike. You know, since we resumed quite a number of previous students have defended their PhD thesis, some of them have defended their master's thesis, this would not have been possible if some form of supervision were not going on throughout the period of strike. And as is well known, our job has three major components, which is research, community development and teaching. And in fact, if we teach all the courses in the engineering system, which are so brilliant, you cannot be promoted if your research does not match up to what is required for it to be promoted. We are all in this country. While recently, the US has celebrated the citation of the up-world movement of the US in the world, during this period of strike. Would that have been possible if there were not condom of publication that happened during this strike? Where people, where colleagues were able to have ample time to see them and write, I mean, publish on their work, some of their findings in recent years. Whereas, I mean, what do you get in return for all this effort? Okay, Doctor, just... That is the case. Let's understand. Maybe you have said it and I didn't get the point well. We're here of the complaint about October salary being paid half, half of the salary being paid. We don't seem to hear anything about from February to September. And we've been wondering, is it that they paid for all the months, and it's just October that was paid half, or as who accepted the fact that they shouldn't be paid from February to September and only from October that they resumed? Because we've not had much talk about other months, just October. Okay. Well, our salary was topped in February. The last salary payment was in February. So we have not received any salary since then, from March. And the last salary that was received was corrupted, as they mentioned, from October 14 that we resumed from this fight. So we have not received any salary from March to end of September. I mean, to October 14, or October 13, when we call out the strike on October 14. So, and one of the gentlemen agreement with Mr. Speaker and all the consents may be added up to intervene was that the fragment was going to pay off this salary because our job schedule is not only teaching, it's teaching research and community development. The evidence of the teaching and of the research and community development is, I mean, but when you see the ranking of three major investors in recent years, in recent times. Well, that is serious. So what you've talked about, the gentlemen agreement, like you said, that the speaker of the House of Representatives had with you and one of the provisions was that they were going to pay you the outstanding salaries. Can you work us through some more provisions of these gentlemen agreements? What are the things that we agreed upon that made lecturers to go back on their words and say, okay, look, we're going back to class? What are some of these things that gave you so much hope to return to class? Well, as we all see, based on Congress that we had and feedback we had from the National Executive Committee of the House of Representatives, the gentlemen agreement entailed that the provision will be made in the 2023 budget concerning the funding of the industry, concerning a new salary package, concerning an academic allowance and Mr. Speaker, including Mr. President, when he was presenting the budget for next year, mentioned those things. So, practically, we were assured that those provisions were made in the budget, and this was confirmed when Mr. President presented the budget to Congress to the National Assembly. In addition, it was mentioned, I mean, the Congress, who abbreviated the Congress, that Mr. Speaker has spoken with Mr. President that he should consider, he should reconsider the standard of argument on the new work, because lecturers cannot be so treated in view of the fact that our job is not only teaching and as part of finding a reasonable solution to the impasse, our salary, the backlog of our salary will be paid. So, that was the gentleman's view. Like now, the lecturers have been protesting since Monday or Tuesday, if I'm correct. How long do you people intend to keep protesting? And what's the plan? What are you going to do afterwards from here? Is it only the protest has also met on their own, and what is the way forward from here? The way forward, sorry, please, the way forward, if you can hear me, is that you continue to agitate the mind of Nigerians and call this government what they are in the sense that they cannot, they have proven that they cannot resolve this issue so far. And this would tell evidently on the quality of the services that members will be rendering in the system, because you don't expect somebody that has not collected salary for the past eight months that has been to pay, that has been to pay not to show his disaffection in class. And I mean, just like the way the secondary and primary education system collapsed in this country, I might be seeing something towards that regarding the university education as well. That's really serious. Very scary actually. But you know, apart from everything, there are some people who have argued that we can't be seeing strikes every day from academicians, from lecturers, from university system where the university system was supposed to be like a mini-country on its own. It has everything in the university. And people see this as going cap in hand to the federal government all the time for funding and everything. It really has to stop. Does us who have any plan for the future, that they will move for autonomy, they will move for financial independence and everything that will make it work better and not rely on the federal government or any other government for that matter? Well, that question, everything, but the fragment is the owner of the university system. That's why the president of Nigeria is a visitor to the federal institutions. So, and the policy of the fragment is what is being operated across the Nigerian institution. If you go to the section on the constitution, as of today, the funding of the university is the responsibility of the federal government. And they have not abdicated their role. And even in their campaign and everything, they keep saying, the education will be free up to the university level. So, I strongly believe that the issue, we are asking for autonomy. When we ask for autonomy, we are asking for autonomy in terms of autonomy in the management of the system. And that is what we have been pursuing for a while. However, it is left for the government to go to the public and say, I mean, I'm going to, education is going to be free across all borders to the university level. And they now provide the requisite equipment and facilities to make that environment conducive for them. When you say management, sorry Dr. Just a moment, Dr. When you say management, to what extent do you want, does the university system want to be managed by itself? Like, if you say management should be handed back to the university, are you talking about management in terms of funds and academics, curriculum and everything that is in the university? Or is it just management and still expect funding to come from the federal government? Because if that's the case, he who pays the piper dictates the tune. No, there is no where in the world. As it is, there is no where in the world. Where the government abdicated responsibility concerning education. Even in the most of the best of the country that we aspire to go or we look towards like buildings and like, they still commit quite substantial amount to education. However, the system also makes sure that the university education is competitive. What do I mean by that? In the sense that government does its part, the industry does its part, and then the parent also does its part. If you go to a country like Canada, for instance, up to 18 years old, the government pays the parents for them to budget for the university education of their wards. So when they get to the university, then they will not claim that they don't have funds to pay for the university, for the university education of their wards. But is that the case here? Is anybody taking of the Nigerian child to invest in them? So that when they get to the university, they have funds to go to the university? That is not the case. However, as I said, the constitution has to today promise that education is going to be responsible for the fragment. As the fragment changes, is it the answer that will change the constitution to reflect that? As you cannot change that, you can only do that whatever the fragment promise, whatever the constitution promise, you can only ensure or try to twist the government to fulfill the obligation. In terms of running of the university system, the government council of the university, the chancellor of the university system, is also being appointed by the government as an overseer. So they have an overriding factor in the decision that is taken. There is no decision, even when it is taken at the Senate, they have to go to the government council of the university. We are not quarreling with that. However, we are saying that the issue is that when you promise that you are going to do something, then whatever you are going to do, you have to do it. You have several agreements with us, and then you fail to implement on your agreement. Where is it done that the last increment for salary of professors or lecturers will be in 2009? Where is it done? It is not done everywhere. Is it a sin for us to agitate for that, for implementing our welfare? Okay. Well, doctor, there is so much to talk about, and we are still hoping to have this interaction. Hoping that at that time, you will be talking and smiling more than you are doing today, because the conditions hopefully will be better. We would like to thank you for coming on the show today. Thank you very much. Well, that was Dr. Lawrence Oshova, a lecturer at that. What is going on? It won't be so wrong. Well, a lecturer at the University of Lagos, and being a member of us too, it's also a biting hard on him. Well, this thing is like it's everybody that's involved, because whether you're a student, you're a parent, you're a lecturer, we're all feeling the impact. Or just society that has to have these young men and women just come home without knowing right from left. It's easy to say when there is strike, you need to go and learn a trade or something, but it doesn't always work that way. You need to pay money to learn a trade. You have to pay money. Money that could have been saved to pay your fees. You're paying for the trade, and then suddenly government wakes up and says, as you come back, and then you're still looking for the other money to go and pay. I know no knowledge is wasted anyway. And then there are under a lot of pressure. If you're active on social media, you would see students complaining bitterly about the amount of pressure that they have to go through, because they have to write an exam that is usually supposed to be like three weeks or two weeks at most, they have to write it in one week. And for a session that they should have prepared for in three months, they have to prepare in one week. That's not a very nice place to be in. And there's no way, like we were saying at the opening, that there's no way you can tell a lecturer that, okay, since you didn't work, I'm not going to pay you. And then the lecturer leaves what he should have taught from February to September because he was not paid and goes, he has to go back. Yeah, because somehow, he's not going somehow. He has to convert the curriculum. He needs to finish whatever he has set out to teach for the semester. That is the only way exams can happen. And that is the only way complete education and learning would have happened. So whatever scripts he had to mark for a year, he will mark him one week. Whatever assignments he had to give for two semesters. So there's so much pressure everywhere. But we shouldn't be talking in the 21st century about lecturers going on strike, people relegating education to the background and all that. 2023 is coming. I do hope whoever will take the reins of leadership will look very, very critically at the education sector and make sure it's better. Because someone said that a country is not marked or the greatness of a country is not measured by the money they have, but by the number of educated people that they have. Because you can be... What do they say in Nigeria? Money means road. Money means road. We have been like that once when somebody in government said that the problem of Nigeria is not the money. It's how to spend it. And there was boom. And that money couldn't get into something that today could have been reaping. Now we are crying. We go out to import oil. It's crazy. We will continue having even more interesting conversations on the run-up. We'll go in on a quick break when we return. Another guest will be with us. Don't go anywhere. Stay with us.