 Hello, I'm Scott Busby, Deputy Assistant Secretary in the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor at the U.S. Department of State here in Washington, D.C. Thank you for joining us for this discussion today. We will address the Chinese government's campaign of repression against Uyghurs, ethnic Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and other Muslim minorities in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China, and discuss how you, your organization, and your government can help respond to these deplorable human rights abuses. On July 16th to the 18th, the U.S. Department of State hosted the Second Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom, where the United States invited government and civil society leaders from around the world to discuss current global challenges and threats to religious freedom. Among the many horrific examples we discussed during the ministerial, the Chinese government's systemic repression and detention of more than one million Uyghurs and members of other Muslim minority groups in Xinjiang is among the worst. Unfortunately, much of the world remains unaware of this increasingly bleak reality. Beyond awareness, there is also a need for louder, more engaged voices and stronger action on this human rights crisis. A number of governments have condemned the Chinese authorities for these actions, but they need to follow through on holding China accountable and encouraging other allies and influential regional partners to likewise put pressure on China to end the repression in Xinjiang. Today we have with us a panel of experts with deep knowledge of what is happening on the ground in Xinjiang. We'll discuss many of the repressive policies the Chinese government has implemented, including the mass detention of Muslim minorities in sprawling internment camps, the ramping up of high-tech surveillance as a tool of social control, and the Chinese government's widespread disinformation campaign to cover up or change the perception of their actions. We'll start off by investigating each of these issues and getting the latest updates from our panel. Then we'll turn to you for your questions and thoughts. If you have a question for the panel, please submit it in the comments section next to the video player or on Twitter using hashtag Xinjiang. Let me introduce our panel. To my left is Dr. Sophie Richardson. She's the China director at Human Rights Watch and the author of numerous articles on domestic Chinese political repression. She has testified before the European Parliament and the U.S. Congress. Dr. Richardson has provided commentary to the BBC, CNN, The New York Times, and many other media organizations. Also with us is Nuri Turkel, a U.S.-based Uyghur rights advocate and attorney here in Washington, D.C. She was born in a re-education camp in China's Xinjiang region at the height of the cultural revolution in China. He is chairman of the Board of the Uyghur Human Rights Project and one of its co-founders as well as a past president of the Uyghur American Association. He has been speaking publicly on nearly a nonstop basis over the past two years advocating for a global response to the crisis of the Uyghur people, appearing most recently as one of the opening speakers at the Oslo Freedom Forum in May. Also joining us today is Aleem Setoff, the director for the Uyghur service at Radio Free Asia. He previously served as the executive director for the Uyghur Human Rights Project. In 1999, he started at RFA as a production coordinator and broadcaster. Throughout his career, Aleem has written many articles on China's human rights violations of the Uyghur people and is frequently interviewed about these issues by leading media organizations. Thanks to all of you for being a part of this important discussion. Sophie, you and your organization, Human Rights Watch, have engaged directly on the Chinese government's actions in Xinjiang. What can you tell us about your organization's work on the issue and what have you learned? Scott, first of all, thanks so much for having us. Human Rights Watch has written about abuses of Uyghurs for 25 years. A lot of that has focused on restrictions on religious freedom, torture, and enforced disappearances. In the last couple of years, we've focused on the establishment of these political education camps in which people are arbitrarily detained and essentially forced to swear their loyalty to the Chinese Communist Party. And they're really simply being detained because they are Uyghurs or other Turkic Muslims. We've also spent a lot of time looking at abuses of surveillance technologies to track people's behavior across the region and use that as further evidence of suspicious behavior and to detain people. So I think we'll probably talk more about that in a bit. Thanks Sophie. Nuri, you've spent years working on these issues, but recently there has been a clear increase in the repressive actions of the Chinese authorities. Can you share insights from your perspective on what is happening right now in Xinjiang? First, I'd like to thank the State Department for organizing this important discussion. The Uyghur repression under the communist government in the last six decades did not just happen overnight. This has been taking place as long as I'm breathing. So the current wave of oppression really come to an existence in the last two years, particularly with Chinchenguo come to power and this draconian measure called the Extremification Measure enacted in April 2017. China's government ratchet up the oppression of the Uyghur people with a mass detention and creating this police state. So what the Chinese government is trying to tell the world, it does not really fit to reality. The Chinese government claimed that they're doing this for security concern. Every country has a right to defend its national security and national interest, but the ongoing repression of the Uyghurs have geopolitical, political and cultural and even racist context. So the Chinese government started a similar type of reeducation program before building, extracting and managing the current internment camps that they wanted to teach like a school, manage like a prison and protect like a military. With the purpose of breaking up Uyghur lineage, connection and family. So it has nothing to do with the security concern that they've been expressing. If you look at the type of people that they're locked up, it shows that they have a very different purpose. The world needs to pay attention to this. This is not about the Uyghurs anymore because Chinese government using this similar technology, similar method and a way to expand its influence around the world as we speak about their 18 countries already adopted Chinese way of monitoring their own citizens, imposing a political repression. Thanks Nuri. Halim, through your work at Radio Free Asia, you focus the spotlight on the Chinese government's campaign of repression in Xinjiang. What can you share with us from your coverage and why is it important to raise awareness about these human rights abuses? Yes, we have covered extensively about Chinese government's detention of the Uyghurs, especially after Xinjiang got became the party secretary of the region in August 2016. And we began to report on a large number of disappearances of Uyghurs' detentions and also build up many police checkpoints in Uyghur villages, towns throughout the region. And we were able to confirm, at least in the Kashgar prefecture alone, 120,000 Uyghurs have been detained. These detentions are arbitrary, extra-judicial, and also most people do not know when they will be released or graduate from the so-called vocational skills training centers. But we have been able to confirm that these are not some kind of schools, but these are in fact indeed detention facilities and camps by the Chinese authorities. And China claims that they are doing this because of religious extremism. They are helping with the local Uyghurs so that they could help them with cleansing their minds of extremist thoughts. But in our reporting, we have found out that many of those people who have been detained are not just the so-called people who have been influenced by extremism. But we have confirmed that university professors, presidents, Uyghur writers, Uyghur editors, Uyghur sportsmen, Uyghur singers, Uyghur artists, the top of the cream of the Uyghur people who make Uyghur people who they are have all been detained in these Chinese camps by the Chinese authorities. And also, we have interviewed a lot of people overseas, for example, in Europe, in Canada, in the U.S. and Uyghurs, they have not been able to contact their loved ones for two or longer years. And some of them, obviously, became very vocal, speaking to media, speaking to us and others, then the Chinese government basically showed their parents or loved ones to them once or twice, basically warning these people not to speak up again about their detentions. And also, basically, we can't tell stories that Chinese government detained their parents and loved ones. And so we have been reporting up all these cases. And all of them indicate that China is not actually just educating these Uyghur people at some sort of vocational training facilities, but rather the Chinese government has been detaining these Uyghurs, not just the so-called Uyghurs under the influence of extremism, but also top of the cream of the Uyghurs. Thanks very much, Aleem. Let's now talk about the rapid and expansive growth of the internment camps and what is happening inside of them. Nuri, can you update us on this? Despite the ongoing media scrutiny and growing global concern, even though there has not been a governmental action taken to rectify the situation, China's government is still managing and expanding these camps. Late last year, an Australian think tank and the media organization have reported some figures stating that in less than 20-month period, the expansion rate was 465 percent. And in one instance, they report also indicate that the areas that they surveyed, the area of an expansion is equivalent of 140 soccer fields. At the same time, the BBC reported that the Chinese government built building the largest prison camp just outside of the regional capital, RMJ. So there's no end in sight. This is why we have to call on the governments, particularly in Europe, that has a history of seeing, witnessing, experiencing how it ends when a government targets religious and ethnic minority. We've seen this movie before. It never again is happening again in China. This should not be lost in a translation in Europe. So the Chinese government not only managing and expanding these camps, but also promoting this as a method, a model for other countries to deal with so-called world's Muslim problem. Thanks, Nuri. Another issue that has received a lot of attention recently and is a key focus of our discussion today is the increasing use of sophisticated high-tech surveillance as a tool of control and repression in Xinjiang. From widespread installation of security cameras to phone monitoring apps, compulsory DNA samples, and police checkpoints, the Chinese government is heightening its police state control and monitoring of the life of everyday people in Xinjiang. Nuri, what can you tell us about this growing dystopian reality in Xinjiang? As reported by credible media organizations and NGOs such as Sophie's organization, the life of the weaker people who are not in the camps are even more difficult to say the least, simply because the Chinese government has created a dystopian system environment that you only read in science fiction. So anywhere that you go, any moment you take, it's heavily monitored. Just an example, if you wanted to go about with your daily life, go to work or go to school, you have to go through a police checkpoint, iris scans, biometric data collection, unreasonable questions, search and seizure. In some instance, they have to run a mobile app, a scan on your phone, because every Uyghur phones reported by Human Rights Watch have a compulsory app, spying app, that monitors the communication text messages online surfing. And also, the Uyghur people have been subject to DNA collection. This has been also widely reported. In addition to what's happening in the society, the Chinese intrusion already in the lives of the Uyghur people and their homes, private homes. So they have uninvited guests from the Chinese government, eat with them at the dining table and sleep with them in a bedroom uninvited, and having their children to respond to their parents, monitoring the communication. The children's honest answer, in some instance, resulted in their parents, the kid's parents lending in internment camps. Horrible. Now, let's take some questions from the comment section of those following along on Twitter using the hashtag Shenzhen. Our first question is from Dimas. She asks, how can people from other countries like Indonesia effectively pressure their governments to stand up to China when the governments are worried about potential economic backlash from Beijing? Sophie, do you want to answer that question? Sure. I'll take a stab at that. It's a great question. Thanks for asking it. We know that Beijing shoves back and that it will try to punish other governments for standing up to it. But I think it's also very important for citizens who care about issues like religious freedom or a sense that a culture that's comparable or with which they have a certain amount of sympathy or they're simply concerned about human rights worldwide need to explain to their own governments that that's of much value to them as potential trade deals. For example, I think governments, democratic ones, have to respond to what constituents say to them. And I think it's very important also to think about it in terms of allowing the Chinese government to operate with impunity and according to a double standard. Do people around the world in the US, in Indonesia, want the Chinese government to operate according to the laws that it's freely signed up to? Or is it smart for other governments to let China do whatever it wants domestically or internationally? So I think it's worth pushing these conversations with governments on a couple of different levels. The societies in countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey have a huge responsibility. They are relatively free in comparison to other Muslim societies. They should use their democratic freedom and took to the streets in protest and demand their governments to take an action. At least tell the Chinese that they should stop their war on Islam. The Chinese government calling the Uighur Islam as some sort of mental illness. And this should upset people in Indonesia, Malaysia and other places who really, if they really care about their religious values and religious practices and belief, they should be annoyed by this, but we haven't seen it. But at the same time, we recognize that as Sophie pointed out, Chinese have been very effective buying out silence from these Muslim countries. Case in point, Pakistani prime minister denied twice in public media interview that even the existence of these camps, even though some of his citizens been affected, like your family members being locked up, and the next thing you read on the paper that he'd been given $3 billion eight by the Chinese government. And this kind of toxic political environment is very difficult to convince the governments unless this societal support, societal pressure exerted in these governments. With Uighurs as being Muslims in Turkey, they expect actually Muslim countries and countries like Turkey, other Turkey countries to support them in the first place. Many interviews we have conducted, you know, a lot of these Uighurs express their frustrations basically say, you know, they're not seeing strong support actually coming from countries like Indonesia, Malaysia or Turkey and other Muslim countries. But in fact, the support comes from the United States, Europe and the Western countries basically telling China to stop this kind of repression and close the camps and release Uighurs. So most Uighurs are really disappointed by the lack of action from the Muslim countries and by a lot of heads of states in these countries by just putting their heads in the sand, not only that, but in fact supporting the Chinese government's repression of the Uighur people. One additional point if I may, Saudi prince who is grooming to be the next king of Saudi Arabia and the custodian of two holiest mosques for the Muslim people went to Beijing and phrase the Chinese government while his name, his beard, his outfit, his way of greeting fellow Muslims been banned, actually being criminalized, how ironic, how despicable that is. At least these leaders could tell the Chinese, leave my religion alone. That's not too difficult. And today, ironically, the Chinese government is relying on countries like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, North Korea to defend itself on human rights records. Troubling. Mahariti asks, what can I do as a simple citizen living in Europe and not really engaged on Chinese issues, but just concerned with freedom and human rights worldwide? Perhaps we'll start with Aleem this time. And I think as individuals, we're all concerned with freedom, at least our own freedom, our own privacy. And we are affected by that. If the government intrudes upon our rights as individuals, as human beings, if my right to man, to name my child is taken away, if my right just to practice my religion is taken away, if my right to go to another country or another region is taken away, I'll naturally be upset. And what China is doing to the Uyghur people as we have reported many international media, CNN and BBC, all of them report and confirm not only affecting the Uyghur people, but also affecting the Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uzbek peoples in the region. And China is also portraying that its repression of the Uyghur as a great model for other countries to emulate. China is even exporting, it is repression. It's also a high-tech police state to other countries. A lot of countries are buying their systems to monitor their own citizens. So this is affecting everybody. So everybody concerned with the situation of their own rights should be concerned with rights of the Uyghur people. I don't know, Sophie or Nuri, do you have further thoughts on what people in Europe can do who are concerned about this situation? I think at a very basic level, people who live in democratic societies can make use of their rights on behalf of others. Write a letter to your local paper asking what your government is doing. Call your member of parliament. Get together with other people who have similar concerns and think about actions that you can take together. I mean, there's a lot more room for even the governments, European ones, the U.S., Australia, who have publicly expressed concern about China trying to do things beyond the joint initiative at the Human Rights Council. I mean, contemplate imposing sanctions. The U.S. still hasn't imposed global magnitsky sanctions on Chinese officials who are engaged in abuses, same in some other countries. But these are all tools that I think sometimes when individual citizens or groups demand those of their own governments, in some ways, that's a more effective strategy than having an international human rights group say to a government, you should be doing this, that or the other thing. I think citizen power is very compelling and politicians have to respond to it. Just a quick additional point. The letter, the joint letter initiated by 22 countries now apparently 24 is still open. The invitation to join that effort is still open. We would love to see countries like Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic that have experience, survive fascism, Nazi Germany to join the effort. And it's not that difficult because at the end of the day, history will not be kind to those who are feigning ignorance in the face of these atrocities taking place. And also, people need to realize there's something really funny and interesting happening. The Chinese created this false division in the world, 50 countries against 22, which side you're on, what kind of history, what kind of future that you want to leave for your children. That's a very simple and legitimate question that European people will enjoy freedom to think about. And I would note that those countries not only survive fascism, but also many years of communism. So they have very similar experience to that of Uyghurs and other Chinese citizens. Asya, a student at Al-Azhar University of Indonesia writes, discussion of this topic so far has considered repression from economic and ethnic perspectives. But what is the main factor driving the repression? Sophie, do you want to take a crack at that? Sure. I think China has long reserved a special hostility and scrutiny towards Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims. They're certainly not the only ones. Many other communities inside China face suspicion on the part of the government. But I think because Uyghurs have a pan-Turkic identity, the language, the culture is more tied to originating from Central Asia, it's perceived as being the potential basis for separatism and particularly since the start of the U.S.'s war on terrorism, Beijing very effectively expropriated that rhetoric to accuse Uyghurs very broadly of being terrorists or being extremists. And it's used those ideas and those pretexts to really crack down on that distinct identity. The Chinese Communist Party is not a fan of any other organizing vehicle that might become a political challenge. And so as you guys mentioned earlier, the idea of a distinct ethno-national identity is perceived as being particularly problematic. And I think that's why you see the government working so hard to effectively erase that distinct identity through these arbitrary detentions. The stated goal that the Chinese government stated goal is to fight against extremism. They have this new term called de-extremification effort and it has a Chinese phrase for it as well. It sounds ridiculous by the way, but because the people that they locked up for de-extremification include world-known scholars, athletes, musicians, you know, the custodian of Uyghur cultural heritage. So it has nothing to do with extremism. So, but unstated goal to me pretty obvious from the government statements, official statements, and also the process that they build up to get this point as early as 2010 has a lot of racist context because they think that Uyghurs' ethno-national identity, if allowed to exist, eventually will pose national security threat. And this has been echoed by Chinese government's official statements. For example, one of the people who has been cited a lot in the media and academic papers promoted this idea to find a final solution to so-called Xinjiang problem when Xi Jinping took office. And he, his name is Hulian He recommended that the government should give up the keratin stick and implement stick policy. The spirituality, that means the Uyghurs' way of appreciating their cultural heritage, way of life, their national existence, eventually problematic. So let's get rid of this identity if anyone stands away, send them to the camps or to prison. So they have very specific mindset that the Uyghur cultural values is a problem in the long term for the Chinese government. Thanks. And if I may, it's two other important reasons as well. One is the collapse of the Soviet Union. China, you know, studied that very well. They are very afraid that if Chinese Communist Party rule collapse, Uyghurs, along with Tibetans, others may become a separate country. Another is Xi Jinping's signature policy, one belt, one road. When you look at geopolitically, the region of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region sits at the corridor of this. So for Xi Jinping's signature policy to succeed, these people who occupy this region must be pacified, and the current policies the Chinese government seems to believe that do exactly that. Thanks very much. I understand we're getting lots of questions, so it urge you to be brief in response. We want to get to as many as possible. Nam Dinh writes, I couldn't contact my Uyghur relatives back home for three years. I learned from secondhand sources that some of my relatives died in Chinese concentration camps. I called the Chinese Embassy for comment and was told to go back to China if I want to ensure the well-being of my family members. What do you advise? Let me turn to Nuri first, because I know you have similar experience. The Chinese government has been very effective in punishing the Uyghurs who live in the free societies. In addition to managing or constructing these camps and creating this open air prison like environment, they're exporting their repression to the countries around the world. In the United States, we have a handful of Uyghur Americans, American residents of Uyghur origin have not been including ourselves. We have not been able to talk to our families. The Chinese government purposefully doomed us to cause anxiety, create a sense of guilt, and put us in a desperate hopeless situation. The situation got to this point that we will not know if somebody dies because we lost contact with our family members. The Uyghur people cannot enjoy a regular life, a normal life that most of the people in free societies enjoy, such as holidays, calling mom and dad and congratulating them on their anniversaries or birthdays, grandparents missing their children. And in this question goes to the heart of the problem that all of us around the world experiencing. So this can be fixed through our governments and embassies. I think the embassies around the world with the sizable Uyghur population should establish a hotline for the Uyghurs to call in and through the embassy to inquire their family members whereabouts and safety. This cannot be done by an individual Uyghur person. This has to be done by governments through embassies, even diplomatic missions, send people out and investigate and demand if they reject once, go back again. This has to be persistent. This matter is already way past just a raising human rights concern type of stage. We have to be bold and a little bit aggressive in a way. Alim, any additional thoughts because I know you have several colleagues who are suffering from this very problem. Yeah, this is obviously not an isolated case. This is case of every Uyghur overseas, whether in the U.S., in Canada, in Europe. Every Uyghur has one or more relatives are in these internment camps. And most of them do not know whether their relatives are alive or dead. Like this individual who has not been able to contact his loved ones for three years. And most people were expecting that things would change. China will release them. Things would be better. So they have been quiet. Only a few of them are there to speak up and talk about in spite of risk to themselves, to their loved ones. And seven or six of our reporters and their loved ones are in those detentions. We haven't heard much. Most of them do not know what happened to their parents, what happened to their loved ones, brothers and sisters. So far we do not know, even though six of them went public. And this doesn't mean the other seven of them, their relatives are safe. And this has been happening to all of the Uyghurs, whether we are Uyghur Americans, Uyghur Europeans, or Uyghurs in other countries. This is an extremely urgent matter. And most Uyghurs in overseas, now they are suffering psychologically. They can't sleep. They can't contact. They don't know what to do. But Chinese government is holding their loved ones hostage, just making sure their loved ones, their relatives overseas, keep their mouth shut, never raise any voice about these detentions. So this is a very urgent situation. Yeah, horrible. Clearly Chinese disinformation on this issue is pervasive and unfortunately has had a strong effect in downplaying the realities of life for Muslim minorities in Xinjiang. Whether it's the labeling of the internment camps as re-education camps or framing the repressive tactics in Xinjiang as fighting terrorism or secession. This tactic has been used to block and divide international criticism, especially with majority Muslim countries. What effect does the Chinese government's false portrayal of their treatment of Muslim minorities had on sidelining important Muslim and Turkish voices around the world? Sophie? Well, look, governments lie. China doesn't have a monopoly on that. But I think the particular dishonesty that it has employed, first in denying that there have ever been human rights violations in Xinjiang or that the camps existed, was so easily disproven that in a way it's been helpful in continuing to feed media attention, challenging its claims just a week or so ago that 90% of people had been freed and going back to work. But Beijing has been very methodical in calculating about getting other particular voices to buy into its narrative. It's invited multiple government delegations, civic groups from countries like Indonesia, for example. And then it has decided to report itself to the media globally on what those governments and what those individuals and organizations said. And that's helped feed support for its own narrative in, for example, organization of Islamic cooperation member states in other parts of the world. And so when China needs to go to a couple of dozen other governments to say, will you publicly support our view, governments will sign on to that. At the same time, I think there's a real discussion underway, particularly at the Human Rights Council, about how to get the actual facts. Because a number of governments say there are serious human rights violations going on. A number of others don't. The logical thing to do in those circumstances is to say, we need independent observers to be allowed access to the region and to people there and to interview them to come back and report to the world on the facts that they find. Helpful. A number of countries have been vocal, along with the U.S., in condemning China's actions in Xinjiang. But how can governments, organizations, and people around the world take the next step and demand that the Chinese government is held accountable for these clear human rights violations? Nuri? Yeah, China's government has been conflating, denying and confusing the global international community with various claims, even euphemistically calling the camps as the boarding school early this year. They've been taking people to show Potemkin villages, showing sympathetic reporters, the reporters from sympathetic governments and societies, to echo Chinese propaganda, and also importantly, very relevant to your office, that they think that they claim that this is in the United States making. The U.S. is intentionally creating this problem to hamper China's rise. So there's a lot of misinformation floating around, and it's working. The fact that when you look at, when you flip through some countries, the newspapers and online magazines, they're very the report that you see echoes China's propaganda. So what do we do about it? We need to do counter that narrative, just the way that the NGOs, the various governments, international bodies, force the Chinese to acknowledge the existence of the camps last summer. And it's been very effective. International bodies like the United Nations, various governments, European Parliament, need to do something. So if you mentioned the Global Magnitsky Act, their countries already have legal tools, United States, Canada, U.K., and Estonia. Empty talk means nothing. Expressing concern, I need to borrow Sophie's line, is not the same thing as taking action. So the governments need to be, need to realize it's time for action. Business, as usual, cannot continue. And also business community has a big role into this. They cannot just continue to do business with this government, building, that is building modern day internment camps or concentration camps, to lock up more than 10% of the population. It's a matter of principle. It's a matter of moral standard. It's a matter of the future for our children. This is, this actually question is very simple. This is about who we are as a human being, as a society. Thanks, Nuri. Now let's take some final questions from the comment section and those following along on Twitter using the hashtag Shenzhen. First question, how are institutions in the United States, both the government and civil society organizations, such as Human Rights Watch, supporting Uighur and Uighur advocacy groups abroad? Perhaps Sophie, you can take that? Sure, I can start. But others should chime in too, since we all work together quite a bit. We have worked very closely with Uighur organizations in the U.S. and around the world, both to share information, to strategize about how best to approach governments, to try to support what the diaspora communities need on issues ranging from asylum cases to trauma counseling to cultural preservation efforts. We try very hard to make sure that what we're asking for really broadly reflects the views of the communities that are affected. Thanks for that. A question from My America in Jakarta, Indonesia. If China uses the extremism terrorism argument, how should the international community respond? How do we address the increase of tech surveillance specifically in regards to its tension with privacy? Nuri? First of all, you have to challenge, you have to critically respond to that claim. There's nothing since 2005. The violent incidents that the Chinese government likes to cite every single time took place way before they started constructing these camps. And the Chinese government's claim does not have any evidentiary backing to support. If this is set up to fight against extremism, why would they lock up scholars? Why would they lock up university professors and imposing them death penalty with two years reprieve, accusing them being a two-faced official? So it makes no sense. The Chinese can claim the same thing 15 times, but the reality is that they do this for very different purposes to secure their insecurity. Thanks for that. How can Western countries leverage their economic ties to exert pressure on China? How can they do more to stop human rights violations in Xinjiang? Nuri mentioned earlier the role of companies that I think merits a lot more scrutiny, both of the companies based in the U.S. or Europe, for example, that don't appear to have due diligence strategies in place to even assess whether they might be contributing to or otherwise enabling human rights violations. Do all of the manufacturers out there know who's making their products in Xinjiang? Do they know who their partners are, whether those are government or security apparatus partners? Those are important questions. Similarly, we've written a lot about some of the big Chinese tech companies and their involvement in repression in Xinjiang. They're investing all over the world. I think, again, there's a real discussion to be had amongst governments and publics about whether it is appropriate to let companies who are responsible for serious human rights violations or who are implicated in serious human rights violations inside China provide data and other kinds of service technology beyond China's borders. Those are not the companies that I want handling my data. One final question. What are the implications of China's actions in Xinjiang in the context of its ambitions to expand its global reach such as through the Belt and Road Initiative? Alim, do you have any thoughts on that? Yes. As soon as the Chinese President Jinping start this Belt and Road Initiative, this current policy went in tandem basically with the Belt and Road Initiative. As a result, we have seen millions of Uyghurs, Kazakhs, other ethnic groups have been detained in these internment camps, families torn apart, parents detained, children are left in orphanages. Uyghurs overseas cannot communicate with their loved ones there. We have seen Chinese government investing in other countries, Muslim countries, all because of the Chinese investment and money either kept their mouth shut or signed onto the Chinese government letter in support of the Chinese government's repression. So the people live in those countries that are on the one road. They need to understand the profit they make from the Chinese government's one Belt and one Road projects are at the expense of Uyghur detentions, Uyghur sufferings at the pain of the Uyghurs. They are making this money. Thanks, Alim. Unfortunately, we're now out of time. Thank you for all your questions and comments. We've really covered a lot of ground today. Hopefully, those of you watching will continue engaging on this critical issue. Sophie, do you have any final thoughts to share? Well, I think one very broad thought is about really seeing this problem not just as an approximate issue, but rather about holding China accountable for gross human rights violations to the standards and the legal obligations it's freely signed up to. And we find ourselves thinking, if China gets away with this, what else might it be able to get away with? Thanks for that. Nuri, any final thoughts? Yeah. The Uyghurs are canaries in a cold mine. And this matter should be treated with utmost urgency, because I worry every day that if the Chinese government's ongoing repression, mass detention, and this human engineering project succeeds, the Uyghurs prod centuries-old ethno-tradition identity will be destroyed. And then if they fail, we're talking about more than 10% of the population. Let's say if it's the 1 million, it's more than the whole Washington D.C. population. The whole Washington D.C. population will be gone in the simplest way to put it. If they fail, what are they going to do with those people that they're locked up? Why we don't see people leaving the camps? It's supposed to be reeducation, right? If it's reeducation, when it's reeducation, it's going to be completed. So the world needs to wake up this brutal reality. If this, as Sophie pointed out, if China could get away with this, we will see the same model, same method, same repression, same camps all around the world. The Chinese government already, through Global Times and its embassy here in Washington, promoting this idea to solve so-called world's Muslim problem with a similar method. New York Times cited 18 countries already in the process of adopting Chinese surveillance technology. There's a police cooperation. As we speak, the Hong Kong police are learning from the Xinjiang police to suppress the protesters in the streets of Hong Kong. So this is a real problem. This is a global problem. So it requires immense global reaction. Aline, final thoughts? Yeah, we have reported for the past several years basically on this situation. And other medias also have went there, have been there, and did excellent reporting. The world knows what's happening there. This is not like the concentration camps when the Jews were locked up. The international community was not fully aware of what was in those camps. Now they are. So they need to do something about this. I'd like to thank our panelists for their important insights. Hopefully this discussion can serve as a catalyst for greater awareness of the abuses in Xinjiang and the critical role we all play in confronting them. Thank you and have a good day.