 All right, we're here with Chris Moore over at IX systems. How you doing Chris? I'm doing good. Thanks Thomas appreciate you having me on the show. Yeah, so you have You started forever ago in this BSD thing Yeah, I guess if I mean technically if you want to go way way back. I started when I was still a teenager in high school Yeah, and actually it's funny I tell this story because I've heard the same story from so many other people about my age But it was at a dial-up ISP in the 90s. So mid 90s, you know, I walk in I'm green I had never heard of free BSD or Unix for that matter. I've grown up kind of on Dawson Windows Walk in and sure enough the dial-up ISP is running free BSD to or something. It was early early days I was just barely aware of it at the time But as part of that I got a telnet account into one of the systems so that we could reset stuck dial-up Over time, you know that kind of introduced me to this whole command line concept Which I had come out of the dossier a little bit. So it wasn't yet before and it was just learning to type ls instead of dir That was probably But no, it was it was really cool And then they you know the internet was just starting to be a thing in our area And so they gave me an account where I could put up an HTML page and yeah, hey mom look I have a web page. You know that kind of stuff, right? I think I was like 15-16 at the time so that would have been mid 90s But that was the first time I really you know became aware of other things out there besides Windows and Mac world and then sometime during college. I worked at the IT IT department for a summer and they were just getting rid of hardware So I had all these old systems and I couldn't afford Windows licenses I had no money So yeah, I ended up loading Linux and BSD on them kind of playing around rediscovering it and probably the late 90s early 2000s and then Worked for one place set up a Linux server had some problems and I remember thinking you know the ISP I remember Sean our administrator there swore by it said how great free BSD was So I hadn't played with it in a few years at that point Grabbed it through it on the system and never looked back. So this would have been like 2001 maybe so yeah It's been a while now and then that curved all the way into you being the head guy for PC BSD, right? So that's kind of yeah, that's that's what started this quest He's got tired of dealing with Windows viruses problems breakage, and I really wanted an open source desktop I was really big into the open source concept still him to this day and You know I experimented with some different things and what really irked me was free BSE I went to best, you know like most people did in the day I went to Best Buy or comp USA and you see all these nice box sets of Susa Linux Yeah, or Mandrake if you remember Mandrake. I did my first software firewall was actually a Mandrake one See and actually one of the ones I had bought was a Lindos if you remember Lindos before they became Lin's fire and that whole thing And I remember thinking well, why doesn't BSD have you know? They're equivalent a nice box where it shows a graphical installer on the back because everything was text-based, right? Yeah server and so that's what just inspired me to say you know what I'm gonna see if I can write a graphical desk or a Graphical I guess a desktop if you will but enough of the tools to make it feasible to run free BSD on the desktop So that turned into writing a graphical installer and then over time, you know packaging Katie 3 I think is what it was started 83 and figuring out all the nightmare of cups and printers and sound and and then starting to write little tools because there was no Tool to set up Wi-Fi and most of the tools coming from the Linux community didn't work on BSD There was very different subsystems underneath on how they How they talked to the nuances of that are not simple. No, they're not so a lot of times I either worked on porting things or just eventually broke down said, you know I'm just gonna write one from scratch because the problem is you port at once and then when there's an update three weeks later Everything's broken again, right? The Linux community is moving pretty quick in those days and they still do and that's good We all are oh, yeah, it's it's come a long way because BSD was never well Just in general you spent forever trying to get the mouse to work with the x-config file and things like I've seen one too many X or comms in my day or it just yeah That was that was actually the tricky as far to doing a desktop on BSD was just always getting extra work and drivers and compatibility and yeah You're out screen resolutions. I mean it's gotten better in recent years, of course, but these days don't know how lucky they have it I mean you load mother modern distributions. It just works finds all the hardware and just yeah magic Well, my kids they all have true us on their desktops at home and right they you know from their perspective It's just it's a neat desktop where they can play Minecraft and have a command prompt and do some stuff But they don't know of the pain and suffering that went into Bringing on that level of a product right where you could actually put it on there and just worry about Minecraft and running Firefox and email and stuff So it was a definitely an adventure for sure So that brings you all the way to Free NAS and IX systems so you got that strong BST background and then see I didn't I knew of IX systems But not much about them, but I've been a longtime user of the free NAS product, you know I use one you see I think everyone at home I got a bunch of movies Plex server runs on it That's like a common one that in just a place to store all your files and so when I started my business a number of years ago it became One of the easy ways for us to store all the data for our customers like hey This is just because managing it in Linux was just never as easy as I thought it should be free NAS Just kind of simplified all the trimmer with the first version. I loaded but man It was when it was it was a lot more work to set up than it is today Might have been like an 8.0 or a 7 or maybe 9 just depends on how far back it was Yeah, probably around 7 so yeah, I remember when we put that server and it seems like oh gosh Were you on UFS before it went to ZFS? Oh, yeah, when you yeah, it was you as UFS That's what I'm trying to remember. Yeah, it was probably seven that you go way back Yeah, we suffered through all the pain of doing it UFS and once everything went to ZFS Wow, and we actually just interviewed him last week is Michael Lucas and Yeah, he's he's fun. He's a local guy here So I've been to several of his talks on ZFS and he runs the local BSD users group Which I go to and which you're all it's funny. You have the people there all work for an ISP. That's like the thing It's you if you work at ISP you run BSD. Yeah, that's still going strong. You'd be shocked. How many of them still run that? Yeah, but it IX systems when I went through some of the channel partner training Wow, you guys have a long history as a company of contributing back to the open source community So it's not like IX systems came after free NAS it helped foster development of free NAS It's kind of backwards from what I originally had thought about it. You could say at IX systems open sources in our blood I mean if you go back early enough to the founding days when Matt Olander, Mike Loth When they first formed IX systems, it was out of the ashes of BSD. I Which was in the 90s, of course supporting BSD and so I mean that was just kind of in the water here from day one Right, you know we this isn't new to us We aren't late converts to the open source movement or BSD in general Again, it's literally there people here going all the way back to the very first free free BSD 1.0 2.0 days And you still work on it and and you guys are still you know been developing the hardware for that long So in someone pointed out something I you know, there's always you the evil that is you too comments There's always a snarky person and we did a review of it and someone says hey That looks just like this box blah blah blah IX system is and build stuff They actually just did you know they were trying to imply it was someone else's box But after I went through the channel partner training, I'm like no you guys actually sell weight labeled other companies You're the source of a lot of this hardware for a lot of stuff. We are for sure We've been an integrator for a long time more than just a server vendor. So Yeah, you'll see our stuff in all kinds of places. You might not have expected it Yeah, it is well things you look at it You're like that looks suspiciously like a true NAS box but which also gives you guys a lot of insight into The design because you're you're designing at the cutting edge You're the designer not just grabbing something generic off the shelf I found it very interesting in the true NAS boxes the way the backplane with the dual motherboards come Talk to each other for the motherboard failover redundancy. That's that's unique to you guys, isn't it? I mean, that's that's pretty unique And if you've looked at like the m-series the new stuff you see where we're pretty cutting edge to like we're doing ntb So non-transparent bridge between the two to I know we're not supposed to know it's anymore as a controllers One and two in B right. I got to get the terminology, right? It's a Inside the chassis, but I know an ntb bridge over PCI Express and then we're using that to do some things We're like and be dim for caching technology. So yeah, it's it's pretty cool. We're definitely Yeah, I wouldn't say on the bleeding bleeding edge because we're you should see what it goes through here on the QA department to bring it out To you the consumer. Yes, definitely on the cutting edge as far as what what we can do with the latest technology And then of course have it powered by free nows and of course, it's big brother true NAS yeah, and I think that's a really cool concept because there's like a delay from the we have a handful of clients now that have the true NAS installed and They've noticed that delay like hey There's a there's u5 now out of free NAS, but there's a testing delay before true NAS kits, which is You guys have this in them. Well as you claim the largest test base of users in the world because so many people are running free NAS and that's a that's really bright that once again gives you that edge I think that's a very interesting concept. Well, that's very deliberate. I mean, yeah We have a great QA department here But you know with the same token we can't possibly QA every scenario every application out there every possible Use case. We're still discovering you're here. What do we are eight years into this with free NAS? We're still discovering use cases that we had. Oh, I hadn't considered using free NAS that way. Oh, you do that Oh weird, but cool, you know, yeah, and the forums have been great for that I've learned a lot about it and you know just using the forums I our our stack in here is a Zen server ice guzzie 10 gigabit links to free NAS and it's just Amazing how well it works. That's awesome. We have some issues that we created By seeing like you said weird configurations that would probably have you guys scratching your head, but that's part of the fun of it That is part of the challenge. That's what's so cool about the open source movement and just us being open source We encourage that kind of thing we we look forward to and we ask people contribute back your ideas your patches You know, let's make this a better product Just for everybody across the board and and go back to your point about the QA, you know That's very deliberate We try and always have a two to four week window between a free NAS release before, you know The same code ends up on a true NAS just to double-check our work if anything to make sure once it gets out to the community We don't see a forum post a week later saying. Oh, you forgot something for Samba. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and maybe that might have happened around you three to might have been one pointer It's happened in the past enough to tell us that this is a good model to stay on right? Yeah You're proving why it's a good model Exactly and you know knock on wood we try and have less instances like that going forward But no, it's been fantastic and then people test its scales that we can't necessarily try in our lab, too So it's good for performance testing also. Oh, yeah, especially I actually just consulted with someone the other day That's running a seminar setup there. They want to move from VMware over to The Zen server the new I don't fear for the new XC PNG. It's a fully open source Zen stack No, I haven't seen that one. Um, yeah Citrix wasn't behaving is they changed all the rules and broke a lot of features But with they they snuck in an update everyone just says yes And I agree it changed all the rules that you don't get all the features unless you buy extra licenses Yeah, so when you go from 7.2 to 7.3 very little function very little function change other than the license changes That's good open source goes bad That's kind of what it is Citrix was contributing back to the upstream But they were disabling features and adding a license key to everything you want or not So the new spin from these other guys and of course the the more popular Software to use is free nas on the back end or even true nas in this other client Because ice cuz he just works really really well for this Yeah, now I've been a proponent of that here at IX to saying we don't take features away. You add features if you don't oh, yeah You know, that's just a horrible model. You end up piss it off your community and then here comes the fork Yep, here comes the fork as you decided and that's kind of what they did they yeah We've been in doubt fork it this that was a nice thing when we started working in doing our own testing with the true nas for our videos that There was no all the buttons are in the same place There's a couple extra because there's a support button like there's but the familiarity of the OS is really transparent So if you're a company running free nas and you go, I think I'm ready. I want that enterprise level Speed support everything when you move over to it. I don't know if the config files a copy over But I will tell you the interface is the same actually the database is mostly similar You'd probably be surprised how much would copy over but the interface is mostly the same We're gonna do the same thing with the new UI Which is getting ready to launch here a beta one of 11 1 or 11 to excuse me Supposed to be launching here in the next week or so But yeah, eventually you'll have the true nas version that and we'll add a j functionalities You'll have a j alarms and alerts and then of course your support tab and just some of the other Features that go into a true nas. There's some other things like fiber channel that don't necessarily make an appearance in free nas Yeah fiber channel. I am there's a lot of hate in on fiber channel though I noticed that it's it seems to be really finicky technology That's what I hear, but there's we still have people want it and deploy it Gotta support him. Yeah. Well, you know in ice cuz he works really well now a Little bit of in I don't know where where we run out of some of your knowledge here Capacity planning now you guys are all in NZFS, which is awesome But the thing I've reminded people when they start talking about this and you know Your sales guys reiterate this declines that I'm sure all the time is you can't just say well I can fill it up to 99% right no no no we even have some quotas on the true nas side We set what long before that to avoid you from hitting that point, right? You know ZFS tends to get really cranky when you start getting above, you know 90 95% you want to try and keep it under that so you have usable room for For the end users who don't understand why it's a copy-on-write file system So when you got to do a write if there's no contiguous blocks free, you know large enough to store that new block That's coming in well You're gonna spend a lot of times, you know spinning around looking for those places to put those blocks and you know when you get That full it gets more difficult and I believe You guys have some write-up on this but I'm hoping this documentation gets expanded because I've Spoke before With some of the engineers on it and it sounds like the limitations. It's kind of a fuzzy number And I think like says comes on testing when we use ice guzzie on a ZFS valve How much free space should there be right now? I think your documentation says half the drive should always be free I don't know. I don't know why they arrived at that number to be honest I wasn't part of that testing so that is kind of where my knowledge runs out on why that was the best Practice or use case it is it is a debate that it looks like a religious debate in the forums of people on one side Or the other and we don't know who's right. It's kind of like the whole ECC versus non ECC if you want to get into a religious debate Oh, man that one. I'm kind of on the non ECC. I think the copy unrights resilient enough I don't know where do you stand? Well, so for our enterprise product. Everything's ECC free Nazmi Yes, you see I get it I mean ECC makes sense for beyond the storage just for the the actual appliance itself, right? Yeah, but honestly my desktops my home systems all non ECC and I It's the same risk. I would take running anything else non ECC There's nothing inherently special about ZFS that makes it more susceptible to running on easy versus non So if anything I feel better running it on non ECC Because when my my system panics or whatever I'm not having to start up and do an f-sick and all that. Well, it's funny So kind of what led us I don't know if you had ever seen a video we did and the resilience of ZFS where we kept popping memory out of I did yeah, so that was a while ago, right? It was a while ago. I think it's last year He did that yeah, and we actually have a we have a series of test brief are going to be doing Directly related to that about we're gonna get some motherboards wet Okay, because we think it may be fun and we want to involve firecrackers if we have time tomorrow because it's 4th of July And we want to go wreck some stuff But man you sound like you want to work at underwriter laboratories, you know with the guys They sit here and try and get things to catch on fire and you know Just I want to see how far we can push it But it was kind of my point with they say it's copy and write the way ZFS essentially and Michael Lucas did he's much more ticket than me wrote those books on ZFS But the way the copy and write files some so to speak has you know the layers of it That makes it very resilient to hey you may lose at because if you're writing at the moment You may lose some of that right because well the memory died But the overall integrity is is inset is saved and that's what's the most important Because you're always at any given time data in flight data on its way through the Buffers the processor the memory you could lose something because the power occurred, you know during that Uh, but we actually and we had an incident one of those you probably wouldn't have tested this but we had a processor that went bad in our Machine which was weird. Um, it was on our Zen server and so we got another processor Dell overnighted That's all fun But one of my they plugged it in they didn't click it all the way for the ice because he connectors So it was dropping in and out repetitively And uh, it turns out it doesn't corrupt the z valves at all That's good to know it just causes all kinds of mystery problems for a little while But uh, that you are beating your head against the wall Then all of a sudden you touch it and you click it and like oh look all the problems went away I mean we've seen things like, you know, we're testing sass expanders and all you know the cables broke or loose or whatever But you know, it never really gets to the level of we've lost data or we've corrupted anything. It's more just oh, that's annoying We need to fix that component, right? We're never even internally That's not a thing where we're in the back of our mind thinking about corruption, right? Yeah, just gives you an idea of how infrequent we even would run into something like that I I think that's one of those things. I I uh, I fully trust zfs So I keep it and I also clone it to another zfs So I think that's what we're having to move to for data because we don't know where it's going in the future So, um, I kind of I was laughing about this, you know, I was just kind of thinking of some stuff Like I used to have one of those sony cameras in the 90s. I had the floppy disk Floppy disk in this building. I don't think maybe somewhere in a box. I think we probably But you kind of like have to keep moving to the new media at one time I use the zip disc we remember those and things like that But because I've always uh, one of the things the free nas is always done for me both my personal and my business data Is keeping it kind of in motion all the time So it's always alive there that way never had to worry about it because I found old hard drives that I know had something on them They don't spend anymore. I don't know why they said I'm a side and like old data If I ever need it and I plugged them in and they don't turn on like So I think more people are going to keep it live. So I think we're going to see a lot more growth in Zfs, especially if you spend any time in a reddit home lab Those people are the data hoarders and the homeland. Yeah Yeah, you know as people you know with the push to digital media 4k, you know people doing home I mean pictures. Heck my wife's photo catalog isn't getting any smaller And of course if we ever lose it 97,000 some odd photos last time I checked my purse. Yeah, it's accumulation of years. It's not last year That's forever and then my phone. I don't know I don't put all of them on the zfs because I take too many with my phone Like a limited film and you wait as vr picks up the you know the size of those data files And it's just it's not going to end right now. So free nas is and zfs, you know underneath They're just going to have to keep evolving to adapt to be able to you know service the just growing needs of data You know, I can't even imagine what it's going to be in 20 years No, I I know this was a proposal this comes up a lot And because of the zfs structure, you can't just expand it like, you know I like some of the other companies the Magically you just drop drives and it just Magically expands the storage and Zfs doesn't do it quite in the same way But I isn't there a proposal to change that or am I mistaken? Matt Aaron's one of the founders of zfs is doing a project Cosponsored by ix and the free bsd foundation for raid z expansion. Maybe that's what you read about or heard about That you're referring to here So the idea is there if you're in a raid z group You go ahead and throw another disk in and at that point it can actually reflow some of the data Okay, just get that point so you can magically grow Right, but you know zfs you could always add more you know more v devs and it's in that way as well So it's not a complete non-starter. You have other ways to to grow. Yeah as needed Yeah, so that's it is important distinction. I know how to do it that way But it's always I wish it was an easier way to explain it to people who first start out We're free and ask because they go I can't just put our drive in and just adds it to the pool, right? No, a couple caveats there a little asterisk right little asterisk Kind of for sure No, so that's an exciting project We're happy to be able to help sponsor that work and we know folks have asked for it We're looking forward to seeing that uh come into the tree I think that was slated to be done in eight years that would put it out at price started 2019 I think there's a level in and it's like can you just like we said in the beginning about ix system This is you guys are your lifeblood is working back and forth directly with open source developers and uh It makes me happy because I I love seeing companies that don't just You know build a business model going hey, we can support this product. That's a business model You guys are like hey, let's help uh develop these other projects and things like that. So you're you know Direct community give back which is pretty awesome. Yeah, and you know just to tease the free nas community who watches this too I'll give you guys a little tidbit. So keep your eye out for 11 three We've been working really hard on trying to bring over native crypto Oh So that was some of the work that came out of zfs on linux But uh, that's going to allow proper encryption to be done at the data set level So you can do data set keys and then my personal favorite is that you can now replicate keeping your data encrypted You don't have to have the key on the remote side So if you have if you're replicating to something in the cloud Maybe you don't trust the cloud provider We'll just don't put your keys on there, but you can still store your data in a encrypted form You you just killed one of my videos like I was good. I was working It knows so, you know, I I'm a lot of people, you know in linux me being really privacy centric That's one thing that said well I said you can use the cloud sync, but of course he's going to sync it unencrypted So you want to encrypt it and then save it over in this side of the drive you guys like solving these problems Yeah, no, we're thinking ahead. These are the problems we want to solve for ourselves too I'm not going to waste my time in that video. Well speaking of cloud sync though We did add the encryption feature for 11 to so you will be able to turn on encryption for that It'll encrypt it on the client side before it sends. Okay, good. That's going to be good as well But you know, there's something more comforting about having a block level Replication where you get everything right cloud sync is basically still converting it to s3 and then Some stuff for it to that model of some stuff doesn't yeah, so no I like where you're going with this This is see you guys are really future thinking Try to be We all dream too, you know a lot the cool thing about ix one of the things I just love working here is It's just a bunch of geeks. We're all a bunch of nerds. We we go home and do this stuff for fun Yeah, right, you know, it's like oh darn. I'm done working. Okay. Now. I can go home and now fool around that patch I wanted to play with Exactly, you know, that's the culture I learned early on and I've been an open source advocate for a long time and I learned early on I'm not a great coder So I decided my contribution back is making tutorials creating documentation That's my contribution back to open source doing interviews with open source people Sure, sure. Well to be honest, I don't even get to code very much anymore with what I do But I still enjoy my help roll truos, which is our now our server based free bsd distribution. So You know, we we help out where we can now. Yeah, you have the time Yeah, and it's it is. It's a it's a passion. Um It's so I we had a weird opportunity with so I belong We also do a podcast called the sunday morning links review me and a few other friends Yeah, and uh, it's kind of a weird coincidence microsoft picked up on us They wanted us to do the interviews when they had all their linux and azure stuff So we were skeptics, but we're like we're a linux podcast But if you're buying a ticket will come out and interview your people and they actually gave us like jeffrey snowver Who is a really interesting guy to interview, you know founder of a lot of things over there? um over at microsoft But uh, it's such a different culture versus, you know, I'm a regular at any linux fest within 200 miles of here I've been to it Yep, such a different. I love the open vibe you have there microsoft I told them they have a long way to go to their conferences like to to make it I invited a couple of those people they said they're going to start attending some of the um linux you gotta get microsoft a little credit at least they're trying now at least you're trying now The microsoft to 10 years ago, maybe not so much, but at least they're they're putting an effort in and yeah Yeah, they have a long way to go. We'll see what the next 10 years holds That's how I feel like the the open source vibe you get is way way more passionate people a lot of fun a lot of sharing Microsoft families you get that weird vision. They're just here to monetize it in some way. I'm like I hear that Yeah, but I won't talk on it too much, but okay, they're at least they're at least uh something we have to address in the market Which which is fine because uh one thing I get admit you guys did a great job And I believe it's because you hired some more people specifically to work on this project Active directory used to be a difficult challenge with free nas. I gotta admit it's actually become like a few clicks. It's uh It's gotten better. Oh, yes like way better and uh, I was I remember when I first set one up Well, we recently did one and I was like wow that just because it was all the latest version with the true nas like that was just Like Way less painful and and to be honest the guys who you know the team that's kind of behind that Isn't really satisfied at that even I think they still would like to simplify it even further make it easier If you're a true nas customer, we have things on our agenda like simplifying ha setup You know, we want to make that just brain dead simple just a couple clicks through a wizard It sets up your pool ha setup ask the network config and that Right. So yeah, we want to get to that point too. So that's really cool. And that's Like I said, that's another uh, you you guys are just really hitting all the right keys because people who says, well Why do you use free nas? Why don't you try this or try that? I'm like It ain't broke like it does everything I want And then more actually I'm not even you know as much as I have turned on and there's always a couple more things We could turn on and um, you know and because we you know help people Deportively said I'm part of the channel partner program now was selling your hardware. So it's I really believe in the products That's great. Well, I'll put the call out again We're getting ready to issue this new beta release here for 11 to in the next few weeks This is going to be the first one that has the new angular ui so that ui we've had since 8 9 10, you know, etc It's finally going away. We're bringing angular in, you know, we've done a ton of qa I matter of fact qa is roped in just about people from every other department to help beat this up internally But now that we're putting it out to the community, you know feedback Comments, especially bug reports would be fantastic. I'll be on it Even mind it's going to be evolving too What we've done right now is mostly a straight port of the old ui to the new framework But you know going forward we have plans to go back and kind of rotate all those sections active directory being a great example I'm mentioning that like at some point we want to take a release sit down go You know what if we wanted to redo ad and make it just brain dead simple. How would we do that? Let's let's come up with a new design You know, I really love your choice of the integration of the net data project And there that's just I use that um already on a lot of servers Just a great visualization to kind of see where your servers are doing and I'm like I was excited when I seen that got it dropped right into free nas. I'm like, oh, this is this is nice Yeah, I think there's that's one of the beautiful things about an open source project like this Sure, we can bring things in as plugins and stuff, but eventually it's like we should just have that in the base Oh, you know appliance itself. So minio s3 was a good example That's minio under the hood and then bringing net data in is like, wow, this is a fantastic little project We should have this on free nas and not force people to go try and you know do a side load Yeah, and I I did a whole tutorial just on that date. I mean it's so easy, especially uh because of the way the Underline config file works you can just say hey break out these processes and from a standpoint of okay I want to see where some of my io problems are it's just oh just add these things To match my io patterns and then I can start watching and understanding the problems I may or may not be having and it's like it's beautiful, especially because now it Integrates with all my other I have four other machines on our stack running it. Sure. It's just another one in the list, which is Well, and we're always looking out for that next thing too. So, you know based on your feedback people on the forums You know, that's where it's important. You know, you have a voice use it If you're finding something some tool out there is amazing and wow, I really wish that was in free nas Well, don't just stop there at the wishing part put a ticket in enough people put it in Requested eventually it's going to end up on our roadmap and we'll throw it in a product. So Yeah, you can be involved even in that way. Yeah, and these are uh things I talk about You know both on my podcast shows like how can you as an individual if you're not a programmer? But you still want to contribute to open source But you also don't have a bunch of money to just throw at it because I for businesses I say hey throw some money at it. It's not a bad thing And I think that's uh, you know, like I said fill out the bug tickets Don't ever come just complain about the software find it make it repeatable file a bug and say hey It does this when I do this and It's amazing how quick the developers are to react to these things Especially I always recommend though you have to make sure it's a repeatable thing not just one time it happened No, I'll plead with people on that one definitely document document document We want you know a use case a repeat you know a repeatable case Because that is where we do spend a lot of time is just going through tickets going okay He had a one off here. We can't reproduce it in house We're not quite sure how to reproduce it and that's where tickets kind of you know fall off the cliff Right is when when you reach a point where it's like well the original reporter We can't get a hold of he's not responding to the ticket But we still can't figure out how to reproduce this problem and nobody else is reporting it Right so for those you just got to give us as much detail as you can and stick around long enough for us to work with you Because our engineers are really good about doing that as well Yeah, and like I said you guys are the engineers are active in the forums So they're you know acting with the community that that's just Like I said the whole team has been really good and oh that's good product kind of speaks for it So that's well that's always good to hear Well anything else I think you've dropped quite a bit of knowledge on us here about up and coming stuff So anything else you got to add or oh, I think I've teased enough of the important things for now But like I said, yeah, look forward to those Please give us some feedback on the new beta ui and again You know if you find things you don't like file a ticket tell us why it's broken or what can be improved because we're always looking for that feedback because You know like bringing that data and you may come up with oh, there's this new framework toolkit thing You can bring in which will allow you to do xyz Well great. Tell us about it. Maybe we hadn't heard of it yet. Yeah Yeah question is the beta available for download right now. Is it next week next week? It will be if you grab the nightlies You can technically be running the beta now because we've frozen it internally So that's more or less what the beta is going to be but if you want to wait just another week We're still working out a couple last tickets before we release it We'll go ahead and get you the proper beta. It looks like next monday is what we're targeting right now Okay We were coincidence. I happen to have some decommissioned servers sitting on a table in there We're oh, okay. We want to do some testing with some stuff. So we'll go ahead and load that in there Yeah, fantastic. We'll definitely give it a whirl Awesome. All right. Well, thanks chris. I appreciate it. Tom's always a pleasure. All right. 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