 Welcome to Shrink Wrap Hawaii. My name is Stephen Philip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist right here in Hawaii, and it gives me so much pleasure to announce the return visit of Dr. Alana Koffee of the Hawaii Psychology Collective. Welcome, Dr. Koffee. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. It's almost kong hi fa choy time. Oh, well done. So we're going to talk about all the different generations, the boomers, the Xers, the Yers, the Zers, right? And first let's define our terms here. So I know I'm a boomer. I'm smack dab in the middle of the boomer. You can tell by the Q-tip on my head. It's great. I'm a boomer as well. The end of the boomers, the last year of the boomer is before Gen X would come. And you know, we're talking about these groups of people, and it used to be they would think that we could cut it off in 20 year increments or 25 year increments, but really it's more of a culture of a group of people that were impacted by historical events. And those historical events inform the way that that group of people thinks. Those historical events inform the way those people would parent, the way their opinions and feelings about money, land ownership, employment, education, all of these things shift according to world events here in the West. So maybe other countries have their own version of these generations, but we are talking about these generations here in the West in these kinds of terms. So when you thought, when you said that, I was thinking, so, you know, what's my world event? And one of the things that popped into my head was JFK's presidency and assassination, right? That was probably emotionally had the biggest impact on me. But then of course, you know, I inherited my parents' stuff, right, who grew up during the Depression and my father who went to war, Second World War. And yeah, there's so many things that, you know, I went to school for free, which is like now if you say that, you're a socialist, right? It was like that when I went to school. So we're boomers. I was actually raised by a boomer, so it's a big span in a way, because I'm on the one end and she's on the other. But this was probably would be one of the last groups whose parents worked hard for the Union a whole salee, the Union of the United States, right? So it was we're going to bootstraps, dig in deep, hard work pays off. And so those were our parents, those are the people who, you know, raised the boomers and then the boomers went into raising Gen X, right? So Gen X, which is what my little sisters are, I'm just, you know, right up on that. And Gen X was the latchkey kid. So that was the beginning of moms were going to work for the first time, like in mass, right? So that was sort of the norm, very different attitudes about child wearing, for example, and there was a lot of anxiety with Gen Xers because the parents infused it in them because they knew that they weren't going to be there. So if you're going to be a latchkey kid, you know, you were left with, well, again, wholesale pre-packaged food that you could just microwave. Those things are also fairly new, right? So it's like, remember not to put foil in the microwave. Some of us remember before there were microwaves, right? So we had to be taught not to cook with foil. So much, even the food was packaged a different way for Gen X. And boy, was there a lot of anxiety. So now the Gen Xers are like, what, 35 to 55, kind of? Nice. Yeah, well, no, Gen Xers are, yeah, about that age, right? And then maybe a little bit shorter than 30, yeah. Definitely some 50s down to maybe about 40, 45, 40, very short. In fact, it's considered to be the middle child. It's called the middle child generation because it's between these huge baby boomers, many baby boomers, and then you have this little Gen X, and then you have the Millennials, which are just, you know, we all talk about Millennials so much. And then there's a generation after the Millennials called Gen Z or Gen Z, and they're interesting too. So wait, the Millennials, 20s to 30s? So the Millennials are about 25 to maybe 35, 30. Not a very big group, but a very important group, significantly. And what's the big historical event in their life? Well, our babies, they had 9-11, they, you know, the country, they will never remember what it was like to just roll up to the airport and say, wave at your friends. They're just like, what's that? You know, like, so that was their, yeah, that was their event. They also had the internet. We gave them internet, and that's their norm. So they'll never remember, you know, like a phone dial tone. My sons were watching Poltergeist. Remember them in the part of the movie where she's looking at the television and there's sort of the white screen and the static? And they're like, what's that? Like that? After the station goes off the air. It used to go off of the air for a baby seat. When there was air. They were like, why did that happen? You know, there used to only be four stations, really. I mean, like, so they can't even conceive of our reality. And then Z? Oh, my goodness. So those are the aliens that I was talking to you about. I'm raising Zeds. These are generation internet, iGen. They're also called, there's never been a time. Like the iPhone. iPhone, never been a time in their life when they didn't have one. And so the millennials are what we call tech savvy, right? So they know how to, well, they know how to use the equipment. Right, they're the ones you go to ask to fix your computer. Right. The generation after that are even beyond that. They never had to adjust to the equipment because they were born with the equipment. Right. And so it's just part of them, right? So. So as a therapist, I just don't take them. I mean. No, they're actually really lovely because they do. They have a certain naivete that they're, I guess as parents, if we were to look at a Gen Z at 16 versus a millennial at 16 or Gen Xer at 16, this group is very young psychologically and emotionally. They're not necessarily ready to go out into the world and be on their own just yet. They're very young. And I would say naivete and innocent and in the true sense of the word, where they have a lot of hope upfront. And you would think that they would have a lot of anxiety because the events that inform them, the New World Order is like global terrorism, like those mass shootings. These are the things that the babies are growing up with as their events informing. So in my mind, I'd be thinking you guys surely don't want to leave the house, but they don't feel that way. They're very optimistic and I would say encouraged, but naivete in a way. From our point of view. Exactly. From our point of view. And then that's just the way things are. Yeah, they're like, oh, mom, why have so much anxiety? I taught you that word. I'm so sorry. I taught you. So I just started teaching a psychology class, high school juniors and seniors. So they're 16 to 18. And they're wonderful, absolutely wonderful. And I see some of what you're talking about, this kind of fresh, open, naivete willing to listen and have dialogue. But you said before when we were talking, you said, what did you say? You said, don't assert dominance. So tell me about that. So don't assert it in the middle of a process. I think you were probably advised to be a certain person. I think you're Professor Katz right now. And that's why I established that upfront, as opposed to later on down the line, try to assert it. I think this generation is very, instead of it being like a steep hierarchy with bosses on top, they're kind of flattened out. So they see themselves almost as you're equal in a kind of way. So you want to maybe separate that sum, but not later on in a punitive way. It's just a natural thing that I am Professor Katz, or like I am Dr. Coffey, and let them kind of work out what that means to them. But if I start off as a Lana, and then later on I become Dr. Coffey, that's going to be a problem with this generation. And actually any generation, but this one is especially sensitive to it. So you said you're raising a couple of Zs. Yeah. Zs. Zs. Challenging? Fascinating. I find myself looking in the child development book. Like what chapter did it say this was going to happen? Just, and they're twins too. So they're a very different way of being iGen, but. Are they identical? No, frats. Very different, but still kind of very the same. And recently we have a conversation at our house at dinner, and it's about the use of the technology. Oh, so people still do that, have a conversation at dinner. Yes. We try to make a point of it, because we know we can lose them quickly. We can lose them to their social media. We can lose them to their peers or other things. Oh, that's a whole new subject. I mean that addiction. That addiction right there. So we do have dinner at least three to four times a week together, awesome. Because they bring in information. And in fact, they probably inform my practice more than I inform theirs. Oh, they don't want you to be their therapist. And I can't even tell them how to be a student very much. I mean, they're really teaching me about the world that they are inheriting, right? Because we're almost obsolete. I hate to say it. OK, I didn't say it. I take it back. Don't stare at me. You're wise. But it's their world, and they're telling us how to work in it. And so the aliens, at first, I was teasing you. I'm like, we're living with aliens, but that's certainly how they feel about us, too. But we are native to all of this world. And you guys are the ones that we're having to tutor about how to use the technology or something like that. So I'm thinking I'll probably maybe ask my students to watch, right? And they're going to want to know, you know, they're fresh. This is their first psychology course. And what would you say to them about why should somebody study psychology? This is totally a different subject. But you're talking to Gen Zs. Why should somebody study psychology? Why is it important? Those humans are fascinating, absolutely fascinating. I mean, what else could be more interesting than our own internal states? I mean, the way that I am who I am and the way you are and the space between us is really exciting. And that changes. The space between us? That sounds kind of woo-woo-wish. But just that we can communicate. Now, the Generation Z, we used to do pen pals. Remember writing letters? Oh, I had a pen pal in Japan. Right, right. With a real letter. But paper, right. Well, they don't do that anymore because they have friends with whom they've grown up internationally their whole lives. They've done it with their video games. They've done it with their videos and their YouTube accounts. And so much, though, that my son used to get packages from Norway and all over the place. And I started to worry. I'm like, son, what are you doing? You spy in my house. And he was getting rid of these stickers. And they were doodled. And then there was a blank space. And he would add his doodle. A collaboration mom were collabing. And then he'd send it on to the next person. So this is what they, this is their world. And they're already very connected. But in a way, that sounds kind of old school, like actually writing something physical and sending it somewhere. Well, it was art. And it was international. And I spent a lot of money on it. But the idea that they are already connected in such close and intimate ways with people they will never meet and people who are all over the globe. So they are global. They're global. And that's a great reason to teach them psychology. That's very, that's a very hopeful thing. Oh, it's beautiful. And because they don't feel that distance. So as we, you know, do whatever we do politically and things like that, these are people that they actually feel somewhat close to because they've been in communication with them for years already. Hold that thought. We have to take a break and we'll come right back with my special guest, Dr. Alana Coffey. Don't touch the mouse. Welcome back to Shrink Wrapped Hawaii. I'm with Dr. Alana Coffey today. And what are we just talking about? Oh, I don't know. Your use of the word mouse. Right. She was scolding me or just making fun of me because I still use a mouse and nobody knows what that is. That's hooked up with a wire. With a wire, right? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm guilty. I'm old. Me too. Yeah, you're barely. You've been successful. You've sort of been given a special pass to get into my generation. So, yeah, what were we talking about? Oh, yeah, so why we should study psychology? Because, yeah, so I agree, of course, because I'm in the same business. For me and you, it's all about why is she like that? Why is he like that? What makes him, what gave him the idea that that was a good thing to do? I'm always curious. I've always been curious about other people because to me, that's why we're here. I mean, but not everybody's like us. Yeah? I've heard. I might be some folks who have other interests. Thank goodness, or else there'd be no computers. That's right. There'd be no computers. But as you're talking, I'm thinking about empathy. Like why is a person that way? One way or the other, and that's one of the reasons why we study psychology, also so we can predict what a person's gonna do next. Oh, good luck with that. Yeah, right? We're still working on that one, but I think we're gonna see a little bit of a shift with this younger generation in terms of their use of technology. They might have three to five screens at use at the same time, right? So, first of all, it looks alarming. So we've got an iPhone, a phone, maybe some sort of a tablet, a television. They've just got it all going on, but they're not necessarily only plugged into it. If we got a good relationship with them, we can pull them out of that. They are using all of that equipment to mine for information because they're hungry for information. Some of that information, a lot of that information has to do with the other people that they're connecting with. They are quite empathetic and it's an important discussion to continue to have with them. With that information, how are you then connecting with other people? Because they are interested in connecting with other people. I think we in our generation have this idea that they're so reclusive. Well, some of them are, don't get me wrong. We do have some addictions, but by and large, they're not entirely checked out. They are mining for data. So what a good question as a teacher or a parent would be, what did you learn today? Where did you go out there into the universe and learn today? And please let me know because I'm interested too. That's a really good way to keep the conversation going with younger people, I guess. But yeah, there's a part of me that fights against that. So when you're having dinner with your family, do you have a rule about devices? Oh yeah, no one brings a device. Yeah, no one brings a device. And they actually have a thing. They'll scold me if I'm on my phone too much. Mom, the technology is just a tool for information. You don't need to be on that all the time. I'll tell you. There's a little bit of a backlash with this generation. It's not like the millennials who are like, ah, because they're new with it. This one, they can put it on the side. That's nice. But it's not everybody, right? I mean, there's some, so when a client comes into the room, do you let them leave their phone on? I almost never have to ask them to turn it off. And I do work with a lot of children. Because they're interested. They just know. Yeah, they just know. I mean, they're not the list. I would go so far as to say they're not stupid at all. They're very bright. They're very intelligent. Maybe it's not those people I'm thinking of. It's the, even people from my generation, like contractors or people like that who don't want to miss a job. It's the adults. Looking at their phone, right? It is the adults. They're like, yeah, go ahead and talk off. I'm like, oh, yeah. I will, wait. But yeah, I know it's the adults that are a little bit more attached. And I would say it's the millennial adults. It's that 35, 40, yeah, it's that group right there. I just went, this past weekend, my wife and I went to the cabins at Kokei, which if you've never been a highly recommended in Kauai. And it's totally out of any digital reach. You can't get cell phone reception. There's no internet. There's no email, right? So two things about that. One, it was wonderful, right? My wife, she's an artist and she's happy with no digital stuff ever, right? I mean, she uses it, but she is really great without it. I'm a little more attached, quite admittedly. So that, you know, I had to go ask the lady, so where could I get cell phone reception? The way you can go a mile down the road, you'll see other people pulled out in a spot there. There's this one spot that you might be able to pick something up, right? So I was the fool going down there, right? But it was really nice to go to a place like that. You know, even though it was a little bit of inner battle to do that, would you advise that that's a good thing to do for people to take a digital holiday? I do and it's not always convenient to go someplace as far as Kokei. I mean, we've been to Hana a few times and encountered not a lot of internet. Certainly, you know, international travel, it's either expensive or not available. So it would be better to sort of internalize methods right here at home whereby, you know, the dinner table, for example, is off limits so that we have tech bubbles around us all the time, whether it's a certain period of time or a certain amount of time or a certain time of day. It's an important thing to maybe raise them up with. Uh-huh, when you say tech bubble, you mean like tech-free? Tech-free, right? And you know, one of the biggest complaints that I have from parents is, you know, they're taking the phone into the bathroom with them and they're doing the chores with the phone and I'm just thinking, you know, when I go to the bathroom, there's like a rack of magazines, you know? So they're treating it similarly, you know? So that's not the same thing as having a tech bubble, you know, because they're actually probably reading something deeper and more legitimate than, you know, like my people magazine. So, you know, again, we just want to know what they're doing with those devices. So, you know, tech bubbles would be like at bed, you know, don't go to bed with it or, you know, wake up with it, although I have to admit, I woke up, you know, and bumped into my iPad that, you know, I fell asleep with it. So, you know, we're guilty too because we love these toys, right? Yeah. But we can create a culture of having some sort of tech-free time or a zone or location as part of the house, for example. Do you find that the differences within the group, XYZ boomers, are greater than the differences between the groups? For example, you know, people ask me about different ethnicities and I'm very like cautious about saying these people are like that and those people are like that. And yes, it may be true to some extent, but when I get somebody one-to-one, that's not what matters. So, I am gonna go out on a limb here. So, I'll try to be careful. And I have to think out loud. I think that the within group differences are fewer. So, let's say it's Gen Z. So, we'll talk about the 94 to 2013 borns that are like 23-ish. They have more in common with a 23-year-old in China than they have with a 70-year-old in the United States. Okay, that I can see. That makes sense to me. But that's not what I was thinking. Okay, tell me. So, does this 23-year-old American have more in common with another 23-year-old American than he might have with a 40-something-year-old just because of their personalities and what their parents were like and all that other stuff that they bring to them by being themselves rather than a member of a generation. Yes. They are more alike than the elders in the country. Wow, that's saying a lot. Even ethnically. If we're talking about race issues with the Gen Z, it's, well, they think we're crazy. They're like, what? Are you guys, stop it. And that doesn't mean that there's no racism in the younger generations or racial discussions and discriminations and ideas. It's just, it's different than it was for us. For us, it was literally so black and white. Whereas for them, it's shades of gray. So it's not just race, it's class, it's gender. And it's not so quainted, it's sort of smushed. And they're working it out in their way. But they think that we didn't, our racial issues are bizarre. You know, quite relate to why we did the things that we do. And so even if I point out something to my childhood mom, that's still not what's going on right now. They're different with it. Wow, that's, I mean, I think that's a hopeful thing. Yes it is. I'm wondering, like, I wonder, like if you look at the last election, did that, was that true? Did the younger generation vote more like the people around them in the states where they were or more like the other people in their generation, you know, that maybe they were in a red state and this one was in a blue state. I mean, there's a big differences there. I can't wait to see what happens next. They really don't know what happened there. Because some people also think that this, the younger kids are very conservative, but this was some of their first years being able to vote. They weren't a large part of the voting population that was more millennials than Gen Z, right? So we don't really know what happened, you know? Yeah, and then the whole new issue, well, the old new, old new issue that keeps coming up every certain number of years of the whole me too thing. The whole, you know, feminist thing. And I wonder where we're there at with that. So that goes back to this being both millennials and Gen Z. These are groups that are very much like not the company, these are not company employees. They're not like, I'm gonna work there for 20 years for the company. Oh, this is like the big generation. The individual, you know, very individual enterprise. I'm, you know, working hard for myself. And they want to see progress and success and they want access and they're very hungry for things to move and to be, and I think they felt like the system was kind of this old, slow bureaucracy. So, you know, wanting things to change is one of the earmarks of this generation. They're, you know, like, let's get moving. And anything that looks like it's gonna help things get moving, I think, you know, they can buy into. Well, we're done. I don't know how to say that in a polite way, but we're out of time and thank you, Alana. I could talk to you forever. Yeah, thanks for coming. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. And I'll have you back again. Let's keep learning from these babies, shall we? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry, you guys aren't babies. Come back next time to shrink wrap Hawaii aloha.