 The Governor of Central Bank of Nigeria, Gardner and Mayfeele, Ekiji State Governor Kairi Fiami, former National Chairman of the Party, Adams Oshomale, and others declared presidential ambitions, bringing the number to about 27, 17 of whom had picked a hundred million Naira form. And Section 84, subsection 12 of the Electoral Act as amended, does not exist, says Minister of Niger Delta Affairs Gotswil, Aqabiu. Well, this is Plus Politics. I am Mary-Anna Corn. The race for the presidential tickets of the all ruling or progressive Congress APC continues as Ekiji State Governor Kairi Fiami, the Central Bank Governor, Gardner and Mayfeele, former National Chairman of the Party, Adams Oshomale, Minister of Niger Delta Affairs, Senators of Gotswil, Aqabiu, and Jigawa State Governor Mohamed Baduru Abubaka, have individually declared their intent to be the standard bearer of the Party for the 2023 general elections. Altogether, over 15 individuals have declared their intentions to run and have picked up the required forms. Yet, the Party has now extended its deadline for the sales of nomination and expression of interest forms. The ruling party has made about 1.23 billion Naira from the sale of expression of interest and nomination forms to 17 presidential aspirants. Well, joining us to break this down and more is Bola Obahi and Biodu Shomi, who both are political analysts. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you. Great. I'm going to start with you, Bola. It's very interesting when we see these many aspirants, many people declaring their intentions to run, and who knows, many more might just, you know, in the coming days, continue to throw their hats into the ring. But then, let's start by looking at the quality of the people who have so far declared their interest. Yes, I'm asking, what do you think about the people who have joined the presidential aspirations so far? What do you think of the quality of these men, including the woman who has also joined? So, also, the question speaks to the fact that we are in a silly sitting, we're in a silly sitting of politics. And to be honest with you, our issues must tell to me that the incumbent must have dumped down the quality of the allowed office so much that every riffraff believes he or she, in so much as he or she could cannot perform, can go for it. Very pedestrian. When you say every riffraff, I'm looking at the people who have so far joined that race in the APC, by the way. Can you really qualify them with that term? I mean, we've had former Senate presidents, we've had former governors, we've also seen former party leaders. Do they really qualify as riffraffs, or Tom Dix and Harry? Former party leader was decapitated in the manner brought in on a chemical production. You've forgotten I was decapitated from the seat of former Senate leader in another party. I guess you're not talking about the ruling party. And the Senate leader, whilst he was still on the allowed seat of the Senate leader, even lost his state. So if that does not speak to something to you, for you, it does for me. Interesting. Let me come to you, you have to show me. Let's look at the quality again, like I asked, of the people who have thrown their hat into the ring so far. I mean, Balaba has said that he feels that it's a come one, come all a fair for the APC. Many have said that this is some form of money-making scheme for the ruling party, and this might empower them when it's time for the main race in itself. But what are your thoughts? Well, there are different ways you can win this issue. In the first instance, is the party delicately encouraging the aspirants to come out with a view to make some money, making money. That's the other way. Is it about the backing plan? When it comes to the quality of the candidates, it depends on what you mean, and on the understanding of governance. Many of them are well-experienced in part of governing Nigeria, and I would call it by that, in the sense that they've been holding political offices, and some are still holding offices still now, and we have so many of them interested in protesting for the president. One thing which I found strange is that we've never had the lot of presidential candidates in our political history. Even Pyro to 1999, we've never had it. So therefore, we need to understand exactly what is really going on. Is it about the political party wanting to make money, or about something else? In my view, I think it's about something else. I don't think it's about making money, because at the end of the day, for example, money they are making, or not, people within that set of amongst those who are applying can donate that amount of money. So I don't think it's about... I think it's about a different game plan. You need to go look at the issue from an historical perspective. Look at the situation when the 17th South-Hang Obnus declared that the presidency was going to start, and then look at the rehearsal of the North-Hang Obnus PMs, and then we find a situation where APC, as a political party, decided that the chairman, chief of the party, should be zoned to the North. Knowing that once a North-Hang Obnus is approved, then there is no way a North-Hang Obnus would be the first stage. Now, when it comes to the South, so many people have been encouraged to come out, and also people from the North have been encouraged to come out. What I see happening is a situation where the president is becoming, you know, to have a consensus country. If you have so many candidates out, who are holding their own territory, it will be difficult for anyone to have 50% of the votes in a particular zone, because if this situation has actually broken it all down to zones, and if we increase the local government, the delegates from local government from 3 to 5, so therefore it could be impossible for any particular aspirant to win the vote zone. So this will compare negotiations, and that is when the presidency will come in, the leadership of the party will come in, and then choose to whoever they want as a consensus candidate, and then they will be able to get the necessary backing for that person. But we should not forget what the electoral axis is. If one candidate is a candidate, then the consensus option they're working on will not work. In terms of what they are trying to do, what I see is something we are doing. I don't see it as a money-making venture. I see it as part of the gate plan on choosing the next presidential candidate from the APC who may be compliant to the interests of the party. Okay, let me come back to you, Mr. Oba. Show me saying that this might be a tactic of sorts to finally get all the aspirants to come to a consensus. But do you see some confusion erupting as a result of this game plan if it does not necessarily work? Being that, we're seeing more and more people emerge from the South, and less people from other regions. Like he has said, they have zoned the offices to the North, of course. Now the South, obviously, are the ones who are at play. But do you see a smooth sale in this particular game plan? Or are there other things, other permutations that you see in the future? I want to congratulate Mr. Oba for the over-stretch of his public intelligence. He tries to rationalize the badness that is happening in the APC now. The best explanation for me is money laundering. The party needs money. They go out to encourage every character who they believe could be used to articulate the money laundering exercise. And basically, this is the festival of plutocracy. That permutation consensus. There's no consensus mechanism in the APC, in the presidential convention constitution. In the constitutional APC, there's no consensus for their presidential convention. But this is how President Bohari emerged in the first instance. So, I mean, are you saying that the party will get to the left? No, no, the fact that you know madam, go check your facts. But it was some form of a consensus. There was an agreement of sorts for President Bohari to be the flag bearer of the party. You are historically unfortunately wrong. Go and check your facts. In 2014, at the Slim Barokun, there was a contestation. In 2018, there was direct, although it didn't come out, but there was the Rebus Nigeria, so-called direct primaries. You go research it, or get your research places to do it for you. There is no consensus instrument in how its presidential candidate is not in the constitution. I wonder how that could be articulated. I'd also like to correct you that there is consensus within the APC's constitution. There is consensus in the general convention. Listen carefully. There is consensus in the general convention. But in the presidential election convention, there is no consensus. The two are different, my sister. Go check it. The two are different. So you're saying that there will not be any consensus at the end of the day. So are you envisaging that there will be a confusion, you know, in picking who becomes the flag bearer at the end of the day? Or we will all fall back to direct primaries, will we? My sister, you don't necessarily have to have a confusion. There are two outstanding mechanisms that have ruled out one. They said they are not using direct primaries, but they also have indirect primaries. Indirect primaries is an electoral college mechanism where delegates elected from their wards to their local governments, to their states, under, we know how this thing works in Nigeria, under the control. And the states would have gone now under the control of somebody with a deep convention center, a presidential convention center, not general convention center, go to a convention center to cast their votes for the president of their choice. And we know that that is the bazaar. From when must you add the use of money at the just convention in 1992, presidential conventions of parties, delegates are going for bazaars and they want to come in with money. Okay. Back to you show me, it's interesting the position of Bola Ho, but he's saying that this is, it's going to boil down to indirect primaries. Now, we know that the congresses are coming up in a bit. They're getting ready for that. But then they have also pushed back the dates for the sale of forms. Even though INEC has come out to say, well, the primaries, the dates for the primaries aren't shakeable, it's sacrosan, they're not going to move it. What do you think the primaries, the congresses are going to, what shape and form do you think it will take? Yes, there will be. We should understand one thing. When we're talking about consensus, the part of the electoral act, as amended, allows for three methods of choosing candidates. One, direct primaries, two indirect primaries. The third one is consensus. This was repeated in the whole country. The president actually insisted on having that consensus inserted before the electoral act was actually signed up. So therefore, any party, including the NEPC, that chooses to adopt the consensus of them, will not be violating the electoral act. And I think that's the most important point in this matter. Because the party constitution is not superior to the electoral act or the constitution of the federal public constitution. That is a statement of fact. Now, back to your question, they will have congresses. We know that we are Australian, we know that so many candidates will have that, but why are they all coming up? You begin to ask it, sir. Even those who are sure that their tentacles will not extend beyond their states are also coming up. The reason is there's a game platform. Well, the NEPC is harvesting money from that, including PDP, all the parties are harvesting money from me, the major parties. But the fact of the matter is, I don't see this just about making money. I see this as part of the process that will lead to the congress, whereby a form of negotiations can take place. I don't think that will succeed, in my view. I don't see all the candidates agreeing on doing this, but they are all out to represent different interests, which is very clear to me. We cannot remove the influence of the presidency in what you are beginning to see, because the cabal behind it all in the presidency also have their own tickets. Not all these candidates. Obviously, this is to enable discussions. There is anxiety about what would happen after Buwari, would they have restructuring, anxiety about the fate of the country and all that. And the powers that be would only swing their support towards their own interests. I think there are a lot of other issues which are playing behind this break. But in order to have a... In order to have the major... Who really needs to have so many people in the race, and people whom you can count on their votes, in order to influence whoever the president wants, as they can... I don't see the whoever that would emerge would be a true reflection of what all the delegates want. Polova is right on one point, that the fact that money would exchange hands, that's the fact that the delegates would get monetary still market infrastructure from it. That's the fact. All the delegates are comfortable enough to do that. But I don't see that as a major issue. I think the major issue is actually a little agenda which they're trying to post. It's not about financial returns or money going into APC. Quickly, before I go back to Polova, I want to ask a question about the presidential aspirants meeting that was supposed to take place. The Southern presidential aspirants meeting that was supposed to take place, that was all of a sudden cancelled. There are people who had said that, look, this meeting would have given the Southwest some form of a vantage point of sorts, looking again at all of the people who have come out from the Southwest. Let's also not forget that we've also had some people from the South-South, like the Minister for Transportation. We've also had the Minister for Niger Delta. We may not have so many people from the South-South, but then the Southwest meeting, cancelled abruptly. In looking at all of these Southwesterners, now let's look at votes. Let's look at how the handshake across from here to other regions. How powerful or which candidates do we think that if that meeting were to hold, would be able to spread its tentacles across, right across the country to be able to win that seat for the APC? Is that for me or for us? Yes, it's for you. Oh, yeah. When you look at the handshake plan across the South, what's the essence? The essence is to pull down candidates in a way that it will be managed and Southwest would be able to present a common vote. And I think it's exactly the same thing that the South-South is intended to do. Now the one for South has been cancelled due to distrust and questions are being raised by some of those who speak for Mr. Vice President while others welcome him. In the Southwest, the agenda is very clear. The candidates are very clear. I think nobody can deny the fact that Chinungu is a major factor in the Southwest and is in the rest. So we also have the Vice President who also is a city-run Vice President and when it comes to those people with tentacles across the whole country, I think Chinungu probably, given the length of time he's been on the scene and given his role in the past, and being the national leader of the APPC, I think he's in a very good position. But at the same time, a city-run Vice President cannot be dismissed as not having influence across the country. But I think it does have influence across the country. So I can see both of them as probably leading candidates in the Southwest. Same question for you Mr. Oba. What do you think was at the... Before I go to that question, let me put this emphatical. The Electoral Act as amended or the Electoral Act, the amended Electoral Act 2022 took on sensors as one of the instrumentalities of choosing party leaders and choosing candidates of parties. But I will say that the Electoral Act does not overrule the constitution of the parties. If the constitution of the parties as in the case of the APC defies the mechanism selection or nomination of their candidates and it overrules consensus the fact that the position is in the Electoral Act does not automatically impute it. So let's put that aside. Now, in the case of your specific question, I want to ask is the most resourced Southwestern candidate indeed at this juncture who is the most resourced Southern candidate? Plus including the vice president. The person that has no trust the networking asset over the years, the person that has the most ideal candidate but you know what, your question as framed is actually slanted in favor of whom personally, from the south. And we are talking to a man who indeed believes that we should be microzoning at this juncture to the southeast of Nigeria because since 1960 when we attained the flag and anthem in the south as an accident on circumstance for only six months, six months, six calendar months and we have this opportunity to subsume its majoritarianism its natural instincts for majoritarianism subsuming for rotation because of equity obscenities if you are a Southwestern intellectual, well-exposed in respecting the fact that for Nigeria to be subsequently prosperous as a single political entity we need to find a mechanism such as 930 since we are talking about the APC here since we are talking about the APC here and let's zoom into the South Eastern candidates who have so far declared interest I mean, Ajiz Akalo pulled out midway so all we have left is the I think a branch state governor at some point had thrown his hat into the ring and I think we have a former senate leader I don't know the combat minister the combat minister of science and technology who was once a criminal yes but then let's look at those people the caliber of the people that have come out from the Southeast and of course their voting power the block power that they have in terms of swaying the votes if the party were to say well let's zone this to these people and I'm not in any way making a case against the Southeast but I'm saying we have more people from the Southwest and then less people from the South-South and the Southeast if we were to go by the numbers if the APC were to go by the numbers how encouraging are the people from the Southeast within the party to want to run for that office I'm basically telling you that at this juncture at this juncture there are about six characters from the Southeast who do this for me a comical character as the minister of state and then the parties form Miss Abba I don't think you answered my question but because we don't have too much time let me quickly go back to show me quickly he's making a case for the Southeast yesterday we had two days ago we had a guest from the north who said that the people from the Southeast are not ripe in his words exactly that they're not ripe for this office he also said that if we were to say let's give power to the Southeast who are the people to be given I asked him why he also said that the confusion in the Southeast is also making them unprepared for the position of presidency and he said well if we were to say let's donate to the Southeast where are the people exactly I'm just asking him a question now that we're all asking and angling for the Southeast how many should we not have a million just as we're having as many people from the Southwest also vying for this office and showing that they're really interested in this office we have about six presently how much can you have when you have Africa this question is for show me quickly before we go well the way I see it you post taking the broad principle of a PT that should be no nationality that should be ruled out or ruled him from 13 for any post in this country because if we say we're a country middle of ethnic nationalities we have to ensure that we have an agreement that would encourage everybody to have a sense of belonging that is the primary reason why in the constitution we have the principle of federal character so that all the states would have a sense of belonging whether the president likes it or not he has to appoint a minister from the state of the federation so when you're talking about the political leadership of the country it is not the exclusive preserve of any ethnic group that should also have a right to aspire and nobody should deliberately work against them on account of being from southeast now I understand that democracy is a game of thunder we've had agitations about people wanting to be nitrous particularly in the southeast yes to some extent in the southwest the fact of the matter is we cannot say we want them to be president but at the same time we don't want them to go that's a contradiction but then all we see within the parties we see all of the movements within the parties are not necessarily looking like it's going to favor the southeast and this is why I ask that question we're not seeing that much attention towards the southeast we only hear agitations you need to give your ticket to people in the southeast but the parties in themselves don't seem to be going in that direction the APC and the PDP in fact the PDP has thrown his party ticket open so really are we just paying lip service to this issue and again the people from the southeast how eager are they to run for these offices it's not enough to say we want power but are they showing that they want to grab hold of this seat yes for our policy if you look at the APC what he said when he came into office I can't recall whether you remember when he was freshly elected in 2015 I think he went to the US where he said he spoke about those who gave him 90% of the vote and those who gave him 50% of the vote something along that line more or less in the southeast it's going to concentrate his attention on where he got more votes from than the southeast and that's precisely the situation so since then if not for the further character principle I doubt whether he would have appointed you know self-system and has into his government so one would expect that they are not well-fated is supposed to within the APC even the disposition of the president certainly has had a change of mind but that's just it it doesn't resolve any problem because no matter what we do we must assure justice and fairness is we see a section of the country is taken from political power there it's going to be a problem at the end of the day well out of time I want to say thank you to Wala Oba and of course thank you very much both our political analysts thank you for being part of this conversation I think that the conversation about the southeast presidential ticket needs to be continuous but thank you gentlemen thank you very much alright thank you all for staying with us we'll take a short break now and when we return the minister of delta says that section 84 subsection 12 of the electoral act as amended does not exist well this is up for discussion right after this break