 Welcome back, welcome back. I hope you are enjoying the morning so far because we aim to bring you good vibes and until at least start off your week in a good note. And for that matter, we have an interesting discussion on politics. Let's talk about the impact of the finance bill and the budget on their youth with you and me. And for this interesting conversation, we have been joined by Khaled Ikenyeh, who's a regular, not a guest anymore, from University of Nairobi. He's a low student there. He's also the president of the Nakhuru County Student Caucus. Khaled, what's your name? I'd like to have you again. First time we are interacting, but you've been here before. Yeah, it's a pleasure. All right. So we want to talk about the finance bill and the budget. What do you make of what has been approved so far? Okay, on my end, I feel like we are still living in very unfortunate times. Most Kenyans are still being, you know, they are being pressed. They are being pressured by the financial constraints that we are seeing occurring in our country. But all in all, we remain hopeful that better days are coming. Okay, better days are coming. We did hope that that's the case. So now, with the finance bill having passed the last week and also the budgets having been read, do you think that we are headed there? How is the situation? What's your picture in the coming days? Okay, thank you. I want to relate to your question to some of the principles that were developed by Adam Smith, that we always call them the principles of good taxation. They are convenience, simplicity, fairness, and efficiency. So as I'm answering that question, we try to relate, is the budget that was developed or rather presented to Kenyans just recently, is it in line with those principles? So once we try and figure it out or rather relating that with the budget presented to the people, then we can, you know, judge it. Okay, what do you judge? Now that, I assume you have already passed, you know, compared it to that, you know, principle and do you, is it simple, is it? Okay, in my own opinion and in my own view, I would, you know, try to reason it out that the budget is so strenuous, the budget is not, you know, economically friendly to those people who are at the bottom of the pyramid. But all in all, as I said, we look for better days. And do you think that it was necessary because now the president still insists, even on this paper that I've just read today, the president still insists that there's no other way to help the country other than to increase on the taxation. Do you think that this was unnecessary, you know, something that was unpreventable, like there was no other option other than to increase on the taxes? Okay, this is what I would say, that the finance bill is a very, very, very wonderful idea for us as Kenyans. One of the problems comes in, it is not in regard or rather it does not have that regard for time. It is not timely. These are not the times when we would want to inflict, you know, economic pain, economic pressure to Kenyans. Of course, I saying that the finance bill is a good idea, it has its positivities, it has its negativities. But as we look at it, we realize that the negativities, the economic negativities, you know, to the common one-inches, there are so many, they outweigh the economic positivities. I would want to invite you to reason this way, that one of the most taxed countries in the world is, there is Netherlands, there is France, there is some sort of, you know, those high economic powers, those superior powers. But now the problem comes in, people from those countries, they can even be taxed 50% of their salaries. But their taxes, they can be accounted for. The problem in Kenya is that a common one-inches, a civil servant, will be taxed way too much higher, but that tax cannot be accounted for. We cannot feel that, we do not feel like our tax is being, being put to work the way we expect it to be utilized. So that is where the problem comes in. You see, when you say that a civil servant will, 1.5% of their salary will be deducted so that it will go to housing, you know, those housing initiatives and it's not a levy right now, it's a tax, by the way. And it can't be refunded. Yeah, it cannot be refunded. So if you tell me that my salary or rather my parent's salary, who is a civil servant, will be deducted by 1.5%, remember she has loans, remember she has to parent, remember she has to, you know, to pay fees for other siblings. So it's just strenuous, it's not timely. And I think we need to review, you know, the contents of this revised bill. But one thing that makes me happy is that in as much as we had, you know, that contest in parliament last week, it's still in the, we are now headed to the third reading, meaning it's not over until it's over. Yeah, it's not over yet. This week we are possibly going to see how it will go. But most likely we, the situation that we are foreseeing is that it will pass because the votes and everything, only a few changes can be made at this instance. So do you think now with, if even that it passes and the President signs it, having that he's backing it, do you think that it will really provide employment? Because that's why the President was also saying the finance bill is said to create employment. This is also on, let me just read it. On page 4, the main read is finance bill will unlock jobs. And he was saying this in western Kenya. He maintains that the only way out of the country is heavy debt and grow economy is through taxation. So his promises is that the government will lay out 100,000 kilometers of fiber optics besides 25,000 Wi-Fi hotspots across the towns to enable youths access digital jobs. Also, the finance bill will soon be tabled in parliament seeking the writing of over 5 billion debts owed to Miumeus, Zoya, Sony, Muhuroni and Mewani sugar farms. So do you really foresee this happening, the job opportunities apart from now in the construction? Because that's one of the areas that he says will have job opportunities now. You think that there'll be more opportunities in the digital space and also by him reviving Mumeus and Zoya sugar and Muhuroni, that's more job opportunities also arise from that sector. Okay, thank you. Let me first start by responding to what you said that, okay, we can predict that the finance bill will see the light of the day. But in regards to the same, it's not over until it's over. I would want to state that in as much as the members of parliament have been delegated, we have delegated, we as the sovereigns have delegated our powers to the members of parliament to make certain decisions on our behalf. We still can, you know, corner ourselves to the provisions of article one of the constitution that all power belongs to the people. And that is why most Kenyans, you know, we are also awaiting to hear from what the Azimio faction or rather the Azimio coalition are going to react to the same because we must also have people who are going to fight for what is not, you know, friendly to the people. So in as much as it might sail through the national assembly, we'll also want to see how it's how people or rather how the other factions, the opposition, is going to react on the same. Our initials to do with employment, I have one problem with the finance bill and most particularly on the housing issue, the housing initiative. Let me ask you, you've employed a hundred young people, a hundred youths in a construction site. Maybe we say for six months or even one year. So after that one year, where will those youths go to? After that constructions, after the engineers, the contractors are through with that site, where are they going to go to? After we are done with these housing initiatives because it's not, we're not going to build houses for a hundred years, we're not going to build houses for fifty years. How are we trying to sort out the issues of unemployment amongst our youths? Exactly. So it's not, it might not be as sustainable. It's only but a short-term solution. It's a painkiller to the issues that we are facing. You give me six hundred every day and then after a year, you cut off that, you know, payment or rather where I'm supposed to be walking. I'm supposed to come to that construction site every morning, every morning, every morning. Then on December, at the end of the year, I'm told from January, as you can see, the houses are done. Thank you for your services. So we have not really solved the problem. So we really need to look at the long-term solutions and this now what Kenyans are not like delving into. We really need to have proper public participation because up to now, we have not experienced that. Kenyans do not know what that finance bill means. Yes. Many Kenyans are still complaining about it and many people have said it's not quite clear. You know, people have not really bought the idea yet and especially with the amendments that was done by the committee, it being reduced from three percent to one point five percent, does it make sense to you because what people are also saying is that now that it has been reduced, it will take someone even more years before they get a house. So is that really realistic? What am I giving my money for? If I won't get it in my lifetime, probably the tenth, you know, what generation God knows, you know, which one will get the houses and still also still unclear if a husband and a wife, they're being both cut of this money. So who will get the house at the end of the day? Will they have two houses? What do you make of it? You know, one very funny thing, another funny thing about this finance bill is that they promise us that after one point five percent is cut from my salary or rather from a civil servant's salary, then you start paying, I think, is it a mortgage or something to do with that? So you're going to own a house, I think after, okay, let's even say 50 years. Am I sure that I'm going to get that house? I might not be there to live in that house. Then these are basic things or other basic elements in life. I can choose to rent a house. I can choose to build my own house. That is a basic element that the government should not, you know, delving into. There are certain decisions that I, as a person, I need to make for myself. If it's, you know, the issues to do with the government encouraging saving, the government should try and convince us it should not compel us to save. Since when did the government, you know, delve into, you know, encouraging or rather compelling citizens to save? No, that's my personal initiative. Okay. So I think more and more we need to review this finance bill, let it not be compulsive. You know, one very funny thing, if we make Kenyans understand, we shall not force it on people. We just make them understand. Then we will have been talking about another story, but now this is a case where it is being compelled. Okay. Yeah. So it can't, it shouldn't work like that. And that is why I would also invite you to remember that even in the Uhuru Kenyatta Rejip, they also had this housing initiative. They also had these taxations. But no, it did not succeed because of ignorance to these small, small facts. Okay. Yeah. All right. And now, again, still on the amendments that were done, I want to, just a breakdown of it for the youths to understand how that's impacting them. So we have, one that was maintained was the, sorry, sorry. Let me get to it. No, not on mobile data. There's the 3% turnover tax that previously targeted people earning, who are the turnover of 1 million to 50 million, 15 million. And now it's, it has been reduced to people with a turnover of 500,000 in a year. And that affects even the small, medium enterprises business because this is not taxation on profits, but on, on turnover. So for an SME watching, how does this, you know, break it down? How does this affect their business? Okay. Every government in any state or even in any, okay, in our situation, even the county governments should always endeavor to empower its subjects. It should never endeavor to suppress the existence of their subjects. But in our current state, even a Mamamboga is going to be taxed because, you know, these are the small and medium enterprises. So if you are going to tax, to tax even those ones who are not, you know, surviving, those people who are surviving, you know, surviving is, you know, I wake up barely making it through the next meal. Yeah, these are people who the government in fact needs to be loading without interests. But now when we see that the government is trying to suppress the economic, you know, endeavors, it becomes so very unfortunate. And we shall not be headed to the right direction. So I'm even trying to ask myself because I personally am a student. You have increased the taxes. I have taken loans from help. So once I'm employed as a, after I'm done with my studies, hopefully, once I'm employed, there are taxes waiting for me. There is a loan waiting for me, which is accumulating is accumulating a very huge interest rate. So it is very unfortunate. Every single part of the country, even those people who do not, those people who are supporting these, you know, these clauses, these, the whole provision of the finance bill, yet they do not know what it entails, should now come back to their senses and try, you know, to find logic. Where is the logic? At the same time, the members of parliament, the lawmakers, the legislators, they should be ready to listen. You know, in one or another, I'm trying to feel like the finance bill is a political, you know, it's a political driven process. That is why we are having contests in parliament. We are not having people listen to each other. The president is saying that I would want to see those who are going to vote against it. You know, that that is a form of defilement to democracy. Let people speak up, let people try and give their consenting views about the same, because this is an issue that affects all of us. Yes. All right. But when you say that the president, how he spoke, he wants to see those who won't vote against it, and people really spoke about it. But at the end of the day, we also saw people from opposition voting for it. So do you still feel like it's politically instigated or it's just, you know, something that the president is trying to push for? I am very much convinced that these are very, you know, it's a it's a it's a politically driven policy, because you see members of parliament in the television arguing it out that, you know, we are marshalling support for the same. We are trying to like the other day, I had honorable Sylvanas Osoro, I think is a majority whip in the National Assembly, trying to say that we are even trying to reach out to those members of the Asimio faction. These politics. So how are you going to to argue it out that this is not it's not a politically driven process. It's a politically driven process. But at the same time, they want to, you know, to show that, of course, these are policies that will better the lives of Kenyans. But inside it, there is an ingredient of politics being played before Kenyans. Okay, all right. Let me now take you back again to some of the things that, to the other things that are amended in the bill. We have betting. Many youths bet. We know that for a fact. Now the levy will be increasing from a low base of 7.5% at what it is at present to is it 12.5%. So what does that mean to someone who does betting? Okay, you know, in as much as again, as I started by saying that the finance bill has its positivities and it has its negativities. So what you're talking about is something that we can call part of its positivities. Yeah, these are positive element because you realize that most of our youths, they are really suffering from this menace. Of course, betting should be done responsibly. And we have always seen it in our televisions through advertisement that it should be done responsibly. But in the long run, we don't have regulations on the same. After 18 years, I can just start betting. I have a phone. I can just start the process. So I think the government is trying to regulate. There was previously, there was no, we did not have that structured mechanism of regulation on betting. But I think the finance bill being part of one of the positivities of the same is trying to regulate these as advice among the youths because we've had youths killing themselves after they have lost bets. We've had youths who have even, you know, delved into crime. And in Mekosa Pesa, I decided, let me get into, you know, things to do with thuggery. You decide to start, you know, man laundering so that you at least you can sustain that concept. So I think in one or another, it's a good thing because at least it prevents people from, you know, constantly or being addicted to betting because there's that cost implication involved. All right. So now on pay, pay as you earn. Now, okay, the new pay tax ban has been introduced covering annals of between 500,000 and 800,000 a month at 32.5 percent. And then annals with the gross salaries above 800K will pay a higher pay tax of 35 percent. Well, the earlier proposal was that annals above 500,000, you know, subjected to 35 percent pay rate. Currently, they pay 35 percent. So what do you make of this? Is this fair enough? Okay. I would still want to, I would still want to invite you to the same, same words and the principles by Adam Smith, that one of the most basic principle is fairness, fairness. Taxation should have that basic component of fairness. There is a certain legal principle for taxation. I think it's called the principle of aggregate sacrifice, that taxes should be derived from those people who have less utility for money. So in as much as this man or rather this lady earns 500,000 shillings or whatever kind of a bound is her utility to the money comparable to the taxes that you want to assume from that person. So I think this will call out for, it calls out to, you know, the intentional, the committed financial experts to try and advise the government that in as much as we want to increase the tax base, we must also be considered so that we do not suppress our subjects. You know, KRA, they are driven by another, by a very famous principle, to live a sure to get a man. We need to also, in as much as we are paying taxes, we also need to be dependent on ourselves. I need not, as a citizen, to depend on the government for everything. The government should also, you know, try and leave some, you know, percentage of my money, of my salary to sustain me, my family, my basic needs, you know, yeah. Okay, all right. What about, what about the VAT tax on fuel products? It's been, it's been increased from 8% to 16%. What does that mean to an ordinary Kenyan? Okay. You realize that once you, you just ignite a debate on fuel, or rather once you just ignite an impact on issues to do with fuel and gas, then, you know, fuel controls a larger part of the economy. If I don't have fuel today, I'll not be able to go for an interview. If my vehicle does not have fuel today, or rather the ambulances that we have in the county governments, they are not going to offer service, services to the common monarchy. So if you want the VAT, that means that the prices will shoot. So basically almost everything in the country will, all the prices of the products, everything will erupt. Every, will you come to work? If the, you know, how much do you pay from home to here? Around $100 or $80. So once the fuel prices are hiked, meaning the prices, the bus fares, they are also hiked. Meaning it will have a negative impact to your career. It will have a negative impact to, you know, to your daily, you know, activities. So this means that, of course, the VAT introduced by the government and as it has been stipulated in, you know, the finance bill, it is not friendly. It is not friendly. And that is why in as much as we would want to criticize, to say that, or rather criticize the elements of providing subsidies for fuel, you know, the common monarchy does not mind about the subsidies. They only want, their effect lies on the basic, the very basic end of their consumption. Provided, you just provide the subsidy, the fuel subsidies, but I be cautioned from the impacts or rather from the effects of higher, you know, the increased VATs on fuel. So the government, by it increasing the VAT, I think it's trying to remove the caution from, you know, the common one inch to the effects of the same. And it's not something good. We are still going to suffer. And as I said, we are still living in hard times, but we still hope for better days. You're still hopeful. I love that. Giving a very interesting comment than some hope at the end of it. There is hope. Is it hope or light at the end of the tunnel? There's light at the end of the tunnel. Yes. Always. Now, what are some of the positive things that have been proposed in the bill or in the budget? What do you think are some of the good things? Some, I think there are very few. There are very few. Because you realize that, in fact, President William Ruto's government had promised that it will slash the previous regime's budget by 300 billion. But we are just seeing, you know, the other way round. Of course, as we progress with days, the demands become, you know, they grow. Our demands grow. But at the same time, we also need to review how we are spending as a country. We really need to review. Of course, there are things to do with, you know, the betting. It's not, it's something that, of course, I must appreciate from the finance bill. Again, issues to do with housing. It's a very, very nice idea, but not well thought about, you know. So the government needs, it's a nice idea, but the government needs to review it. So that in the long run, as we want to solve the menace, we want to solve issues to do with slums and whatever the issues surrounding housing, we are also not going to suppress those people who are not interested in these houses. Those people who are, you know, they are still suffering from economic constraints. So I think those are some of the things that the budget is trying to address. Issues I saw that the government has allocated a lot of money to the education sector. An empowered generation through education is a very, very, very strong future, you know, encourages a very strong future, an enlightened future, and, you know, a brighter tomorrow for a country like us, you know, like in the words of Nelson Mandela, who said that education is the only tool that a man can use to change the world. So once we, you know, invest in our education systems, our education programs, then it's going to be, you know, it's something that we must appreciate and embrace. So that's another thing that the government must be lauded for. And yeah. Okay. I think there's also some positive aspects of it in the agricultural sector, having that on firm inputs, that is including pest control products and fertilizers. They will remain zero rated for VAT after the deletion of a proposal to exempt the product, which would have resulted in higher costs for the inputs, because that would have been a burden to the manufacturer, which would, you know, as a ripple effect affect the farmer. So I think that's one of the good things also on maize flour and sugar, what is being said is that they will remain zero rated for VAT. You smile. Sorry if you have a comment in this. I'm smiling because how much are you buying sugar? 400 and something. Thank you. And that's a positive thing to you. No, no, I'm just saying what is being highlighted here. I mean, now it went probably cushioned from it being, from it increasing in coming days. I don't know. I stand guided. You stand guided on that. So you're still saying that something needs to be done around. I, how I wish you had listened to the Cabinet Secretary for Treasury trying to propose an increase on the tax for sugar. Or saying that most households, most families are suffering from diabetes. Well, anyway, I just stand guided. I think that was on a low note on his different. So everything should just be better. Really? Okay. On the budget allocation, just to take a look at it, a quick run through of it, since we have really touched much on the finance bill. By the way, you just talked about agriculture. And I remember the last time I was here, I was trying to propose this when we had our last conversation. I proposed this, that issues to do with pesticides and chemicals to do in the farm inputs. Of course, it's a very nice idea. But in the coming next year, are we still going to talk about relief foods for the people who are suffering in the northeastern parts of this country? Why can we establish a fund for the initiation or rather for the establishment of irrigation schemes in those areas that are prone to drought, farming. And in the long run, our people die. Their livestock succumb to the effects of drought and farming. So why don't we think about the long-term solution to these challenges? Instead of us every day coming with a budget that addresses farm inputs, but we are still going to be faced by the menace come next year, a season like the one which we have just passed. You know, offering relief food, of course, it's something nice. But it is a short-term solution. So meaning next year, livestock's are going to succumb to the effects of drought. So what are we doing as a country? And I think that's something that the budget would have addressed. But anyway. What do you think should be done in that area? That's why I'm proposing let there be established a fund for the establishment of irrigation schemes to address the effects and the impacts of just mitigating the effects of drought. So that we are not going to hear that our people from northeastern and our people from Turkana, they are dying because of lack of food. Let's empower them through irrigation schemes. And through irrigation schemes, it's going to create employment. A long-term employment, by the way, because people are going to be employed in those irrigation schemes, supervisors, those ones who are going to tend on those crops that are going to be planted there. And we have institutes in Kenya that can do research of what crops can be sustained in such kind of areas. So that we are not going to be crying over the same, same issues. Yeah, in, yeah, out. Okay. All right. Very interesting there. On budget allocation, finally, out of the 3.6 trillion, we have the executive, which comprises of ministries, departments and agencies receiving the bulk of the allocation at 2.16 trillion. The parliament comprising of the National Assembly and Senate receiving a total of 4.4 billion. The judiciary being allocated 22.99 billion. The food seven counties will receive 385.4 billion. And other expenditure items will be, will be what is known as consolidated fund services, allocated a total of 1.836 billion, taking the total spending of the financial year 2023-2024 to 4.45 trillion. What do you make of this? Is the allocation rightly divided? Okay. The government has, has tried to, you know, to rectify or rather to try and reason out about how Kenyans are going to be, you know, sustained economically. But I hope that the month will not create an after month after this. Because let me ask you, in as much as we hear every day, the county governments crying over, you know, late disbursement of funds to them, at the same time, after they have received the funds, there is still no medicine in the hospitals. After they have received the funds, the roads are still poor. So the most important thing, and I will repeat this, year in, year out, it's just transparency and accountability for the funds that even, even if the disbursement is little, let's just be accountable with that little. You know, at the same time, we also need to review, and I think the budget did not address that, issues to do with how the government spends its money or rather the resources on luxury. These are some of the things that we need to think about, even in counties, so that in as much as we want to save, we are also trying to be accountable for the money that we are collecting as a country, the revenue that we are getting, so that service delivery is going to be boosted in, you know, different parts of the country. But now, if we have a budget of 4.4 trillion or whatever, but in the long run, let's say half of that money cannot be accounted for, then why do we even need a budget? Okay, so we need to see transparency and accountability. And one thing that I would want as a country, I would pray, not want, because if I say that I want, I'm demanding, well, but at the same time, I can demand because I'm a citizen of this country and I reserve all the rights which are provided under the law, there is a country called Singapore, and they made a very quick U-turn in the economic transformation agenda. And they had their president, I think, I don't remember the name, but there was a president, a leader, who developed a certain principle. It is called the MPH, I don't remember the P, but the M stands for meritocracy, and the H stands for honesty. Employee people on merit, people who are conversant with the issues that affect the common money, the issues that are ailing our country, and the H is the honesty, tell people the truth. There is no need for us to offer ourselves pain killers, or rather caution ourselves from the reality, then in the future, we end up suffering. Employee people on merit so that they can offer services. And merit carries also integrity, merit carries a lot of virtues. So if they carry, they combine these virtues with honesty. You tell people that this and this cannot be possible because of this and this. But we have our team of experts who have been employed on merit and who are ready to deliver, what can be delivered. That is how we are going to solve the issues that affect our country. All right, amazing. And truly, I think the country Singapore has been referred to many times in this conversation of the finance bill and the taxation and everything, and the leaders are comparing Kenya's economy to that of Singapore now, and even other African countries, saying that the average income of a Kenyan is 2,000 and you get somewhere like Singapore is 144,000. So you can't really compare the taxation bit of it. Now, moving away from that to how we are spending, you know, looking at how we spend on the papers today, the SRC SPACS row with 10,000, shelling sparrows for MCAs. What is your comment on that as we counter-claim this condensation? Okay, I will still argue without that how salaries are remunerated in Kenya is still not fair. If you look at the work that an MCA does, well, most people will argue without that an MCA does nothing. Let's say nothing because that's what most people think. But I think that a salary of 154,000 is it 144,000? It's not something that commensurate to the work that these people do. Adding 10,000 or rather, you know, at 10,000 per rise to the MCA is an injustice by itself. So you think that they need more? It is an injustice by itself. We need to review and have the MCA salaries be increased, you know, to a reasonable share in as much as of course we are facing economic times. Exactly. The kind of work, the amount of work that these people do should be rewarded accordingly. Because let me ask you, as an MCA, you are being paid 144,000, yet you are still invited for Harambees. They have a lot. In a month, you are invited maybe to 10 Harambees, 5,000, 5,000, that is 50,000. You also need to go, you know, trying to supervise the county projects in your respective world. You realize that you just don't live to the expectations of that office. Then in the long run, people will come and call you out and say that when we are elected you, how could you pang. So we also need to reason it out that it is not reasonable. 144,000 is not something that we can, you know, it's not something reasonable as far as what the salaries and remunerations commission is advocating for. So I'm against that personally. Wow, a very interesting view on that. I didn't expect it, but anyway, it is your personal view. So now anything that you want to close with from the whole discussion and then you can give your handles in case someone wants to get you, that is your camera. Thank you so much. I would still want to urge us as Kenyans, we still retain and reserve our power, you know, as provided under the constitution. That is article one, that all sovereign power belongs to the people. And where we feel that, you know, we are being suppressed, our rights are being infringed. And just to do with this, the financial bill, our economic rights are being infringed, then we retain the powers to exercise our mandate as Kenyans. But at the same time, let's try and read through the finance bill. We say that it's not over until it's over. So please, even the youths from every part of the country, they say that ignorance of the law is not defense. Ignorance of the knowledge is not defense. You cannot claim that you did not know what the finance bill entailed or rather had carried. So we must read it through and react to it accordingly. And that is how we can contribute positively to the growth and development of our country to the government. Please, please, please embrace the principles of accountability, fairness, efficiency, and what is the other thing that I said? But the most basic thing is accountability for our funds. Otherwise, I would want to greet all the students from Nakuru County. May we continue shining, may we continue growing, may we continue prospering. And to any student undertaking any program, you know, in our country or outside the Kenyan territory, let's continue embracing education and fighting for a better future and a better country tomorrow. I can be found that, okay, I am found that I am in Facebook at Kaleb Uno, on Twitter we can engage at Kaleb Ikenye. Okay, thank you very much Kaleb for coming on board and sharing with us your great insights on this particular matter. We wish to have you again and again. It is my pleasure. All right, so that has been the political conversation on matters finance bill and its impacts to us the youths and everything that has been said here you should know our personal opinions not tied to Y254 TV station. What do you have to say around this particular topic? Talk to us at Y254 channel using the hashtag Y in the morning. My name is Stephanie Ayeta. We're going to take a short break and then Brant Sakwa is coming up with a very interesting discussion on MCM.