 as we go. So that it's all working. So thank you everyone for coming along to today's lunchtime session from ALT-Elyseag on the Scale-Up Challenge Simulation for Authentic Learning. My name is Jess Humphreys, I'm from Warwick and I am here today to help and to introduce the event. So I just want to do a really quick introduction and then I'll hand over to Debbie and Heidi. So we're really, really glad to be joined by Debbie and Heidi today. Debbie is the Professor of Learning Innovation at Bournemouth University and her expertise lies with blended learning to motivate and engage students with their learning both inside and outside the classroom at the time and place of their choosing. Debbie writes extensively on the affordances of technology such as AR, virtual immersive realities, mobile learning and she's a passionate committed educator and national teaching fellow involved in a number of initiatives and expert groups and we're also joined by Dr Heidi Singleton, a lecturer in children and young people's nursing at the University of Bournemouth. Heidi's got a background in children and young people's nursing research where she blends evidence-based practice and innovative ideas to engage and keep pace with the changing nursing landscape. The core of her work focuses on how technology and in particular virtual reality can engage and improve students' understanding of complex concepts and Heidi has conducted a research study comparing the use of virtual reality training simulation to traditional nursing education methods. So without further ado, I'd like to pass over to Debbie and Heidi and for this alt-elecig webinar on the scale-up challenge simulation for authentic learning. So thank you very much for joining us. Over to you guys. Thank you, Jess. That was a really lovely welcome and it's really lovely to see some fellow people interested in tech because I know most of us are up to our ears and marking at the moment so it's just lovely to kind of to get away and to do something slightly different. The slides are up on slide share and the link will be there and also this is being recorded and so everything will come together very effectively on the alt pages as ever. So there's kind of three bits to today. I'm going to do a little bit about sort of the theory bit and then Heidi and I are hoping to get you doing some sort of tasty, immersive exercises that we've done with our students and tested them out so you can be guinea pigs and see how see how that works and then Heidi's going to talk a little bit more about kind of scaling up more generally with with bigger kinds of initiatives and more formal things so that's the way we're thinking it'll run. So I just thought let's start off and you'll notice we have images of children on the slides and this is born with every year we run a festival of learning and the first time we ran one with kind of AR and VR we had the most members of the public came to our event and the whole family just loved getting involved. So I think there's something about 3D, a different kind of environment, a different kind of feel that appeals and there's been a really interesting report came out about 18 months ago which is the classroom of 2030 so they were thinking about five year olds and saying what will things look like in 2030 and so just some of the key points, unprecedented opportunities for collaboration, the progressive automation of lower skilled jobs, employers' demands for workers with well-rounded skills and students and desires expectations to operate with autonomy and choice all indicate that our education system needs to prepare students for the future in a very different way than it has in the past and I really would encourage all of you to have a look if you don't follow Stephen Hepple just just have a look at his amazing stuff that he does with with schools and you know challenging and looking at different ways of learning. They project just in the USA automation is going to is going to replace 50% of existing jobs. Level 4 attainment levels that's kind of our GCSE those jobs in the states are going to be declining by 11.5 million by 2030 so the kinds of jobs that people are going to be doing are really really going to change and if you look at fast growing occupations what employers are wanting is higher level cognitive skills they're looking for problem solving critical thinking creativity and also socio-emotional skills and I think when we start to look at artificial intelligence and things like that we can really see how this you know is really going to be a big driver for change and the report talks a bit about learners need those who know and understand them as individuals to help guide them on their educational journey so I think that's quite interesting and a lot of us who are in higher education we're trying to look aren't we with our virtual learning environments whichever platform we happen to have how can we personalize how can we look at learner analytics how can we make a difference so to meet the needs technology is going to play an increasingly critical but complementary role in how students learn and how educators support them and I think that's quite interesting it's really our sage on the stage to the guide on the side isn't it if you're familiar with that quote so the challenge is given our current education model less than 50% of students are going to be prepared for the fastest growing jobs so I think that's just kind of an interesting just a sort of an interesting thought about what are these children going to be needing and looking for and one of the huge things in the report is they say they're going to be looking for immersive opportunities and authentic learning and really I guess the reason for this talk when the call you know the call went out with people they were looking for speakers I was just thinking a bit about the JISC report that came out last year it talks about digital inequalities it talks about the move to remote learning has amplified the need for pedagogical learner-centered approaches and it still says that students who engage in active and collaborative digital learning practice co-design is still very low so we still have institutions out there that aren't really drawing upon the expertise and listening to the student body talking about student confidence they talked about digital well-being and safety that there's quite low knowledge across the piece about that and a lot of students said they never had the opportunity to systematically develop their digital skills few of them engage in collaborative online activities and we all know don't we that if we can create this wider learning community we can mitigate that isolation we can help them build networks friendships and maintain that that sort of motivation to study and also only 20 percent of students gain any real life simulation and if you start to talk to people about what you think real life simulation is in the classroom you get some sort of health specialists and engineers who talk about you know these enormous really really costly pieces of kit that they use and there doesn't tend to be an awful lot of sort of low cost low tech so that's really where we are coming from is kind of starting to give us a bit of an overview about the range today so bit of theory if if you're interested in the theory of scaling you can zap on the QR code and there's a paper that from the EU learning layers project that i worked on a few years back and we talked about scaling and scaling learning and the theories you have to scroll down about halfway down and then you can kind of pick up all the sort of the more recent stuff on on learning theory but i guess we're all very familiar with the diffusion of innovation model you know the early adopters etc etc etc but the fascinating fact for today at lunchtime is did you know it was based on 45 farmers in the northwest of the state and it was about scaling innovation in farming the very original study and look to where it's got to today so you know a real spread of technology there but i do think roger's work does present us with a framework to understand how innovation and change can spread from a local domain to a broader consistency of adopters in the paper you'll see that greenhorn did a systematic review for the NHS a large and complex bureau bureaucracy and they proposed a model for large-scale innovation but as with many of these things you know as academics we can propose models hasn't always been drawn upon and of course the NHS hasn't always embedded in you know innovation successfully so if you start to look at the theorists on scaling co-born particularly talks a lot about you start off by talking about replication through social imitation to scale and co-born does a lot of work before this this particular model we're going to talk about looking at scaling and endurance over time and a shift of knowledge and authority as reform is transferred so it really has to be a systematic change and you have to have the right culture and in there and then he got together with deed and deed and co-born came up with these five dimensions to successful scaling looking at depth sustainability spread ownership and evolution design-based research feeds really well into successful scaling of innovation and as we know design-based research is co-design and you'll notice you know co-design is successful scaling are we doing a lot of co-design at the moment in universities with students we're not and co-design but gets everybody to buy in and helps to leverage that deep change and so the most difficult bit is our cherished values attitudes and beliefs they actually need to be unlearned to enable that knowledge transformation and ownership and a bit later on I'm sure we can have a little chat about what our cherished values attitudes and beliefs are about our tech and this is the scaling matrix that we used when we were looking in the learning layers model to look at scaling informal learning in workplaces and we got the different construction and health health workers we were looking at to fill out a grid like this to develop the theory and to develop the practice so I've got that up there and at some point you know if you are interested and you've got a small scale model or a small scale innovation and you want to think a bit about how can I get how can I start to make those changes and grow it this scaling matrix is a really good way to kind of start that that institutional conversation and we need evidence-based practice to start these conversations okay so as we all know engaging our students post-covid we've been thinking a little bit about you know embedding digital technologies in teaching learning and assessment it's been complex and rethinking the role of educators has been at the foreground of a lot of what we've done and I just thought it would be interested in your institution have you and have your fellow educators rethought your practice for post-covid or is everybody hoping to kind of backslide to the way we were so if I just give you a moment if you could just maybe put some things in the chat there about you know what you want to do are you rethinking and moving ahead or are you going to backslide and what do you think about other educators you know just to get a bit of a feel about what's going on so please do pop some things in chat now thank you Mary so that's institutional level excellent anybody else having institutional policies thinking about you know rethinking the the delivery mix an interesting one over thinking about personalization as well and john uptaker to blended learning and something looking back forward to going back to normal yeah we've got that I like that Ivan yeah very mixed reviews a real mix combining old and new yeah that's really good interesting there's a really interesting paper I can share later just looking at hero there learning about how we can do things with some of the students are here with us and some of us are there are kind of joining in and they're trying to blend in the same time in the same space not everybody's enjoyed up teaching online okay that's really interesting yeah so I mean I think you know certainly in just in just in our in our very in our department it's very very different and I don't think I'm ever going to travel again to do to do to do a phd external examining because it just works so much better online so yeah great okay right so given that we are going to be the the move-ons and rethinking our practice moving forward let's have a little think about what we can maybe have a think about doing so if you happen to have a google hard cardboard handy I would invite you to fish it out and we're going to have a little go think about how we can start to embed using things like google cardboard as sort of a little taster and to try and get that blend so whether students are in the classroom with you or at home or some sort of mix this is the sort of small scale thing that we can really be thinking about about doing so I'm just going to run through the couple of slides to kind of so everybody knows what's coming and then go back and kind of talk it through more slowly so what we're going to be doing if you've got an android phone you're going to have to download a qr code reader and but once we've once we're all sorted and we've got our qr code ready with your phone you can you can go to the youtube app and you play the experience and then when you play the experience there's a little cardboard symbol that turns your screen into the split screen and that will give you the feel of the 3d and then if you've got a google cardboard phone you can add a google cardboard headset you can actually put the headset in there and then it just feels a little bit more immersive so that's what we're going to be doing I'm just going to go back and stop sharing for a second now then how do I do that close just want to go back to me that's my video Mara are you or Jess can you tell me how to just stop sharing for a second yeah absolutely so if you just go to file I'll turn it up for you here you go perfect perfect so I wanted to kind of come up as me oh perfect thank you very much so I think if you that want to put if you go up to the top boxes you should be able to see either Heidi or myself you can toggle between us and have whoever you want but I'm just going to show you if you have got a google cardboard it looks like this and then you're just going to unwrap it like this it comes out like this and this and it comes round I'm just going to take that there's normally a little thing that you can stick to your head but I never worry about I tend not to use that one and then you just flip it round and so what you end up doing is if I hold that up you can see there there's kind of this normally two little eyes that's where your nose and your eyes go and obviously you take off the cellophane and then once we start to use the QR code and it's running you get your phone and the phone goes in there like that and then you can just put that up there like that so I'm getting probably because you're all with old that you know you all know how to do this but I don't you know just you just never know who's in an audience so basically that's the the google cardboard bit so let me share my file again and if you don't have the cardboard you can still view it on your phone you just won't get the whole experience but you'll be able to see and then get the idea okay don't keep so let me just put my slides back up so when you use the QR code reader it will take you to the youtube it will it should link through you shouldn't have to do anything else other than put your camera onto the QR code okay don't keep I've managed to lose myself with the sharing now how do I get back okay just fine yeah I've got it I've got it I've got it I'm just a bit rusty with this okay perfect so I hope everybody's kind of had a few minutes to get sorted and here's our first one so we thought as it was lunch time you might like to do some relaxation so if you've got a an apple phone you just get the camera up and point the camera at the QR code and then where it says open youtube just click on that and it will link you through I can hear somebody's got it up already lovely music in the background so all then skip the advert obviously yeah because um I don't know so if you click then you should be able to on the bottom right hand corner press the google cardboard logo to split the screen so you should be the bottom yeah yeah this little thing to split the screen and then if you move it to right left and up up and down you can see the 360 view so you move it around like that and obviously you can actually put it in your headset so it looks like that and goes in and you can look around and you can if you've got your headphones obviously you can put your headphones into the ears and then you just feel that little bit more immersive I'm just going to go into the chat to see if anybody's everybody's okay so if you have any difficulties please just pop something in chat for us for a second Heidi just so you know I can see the chat coming up but I can't actually contribute to the oh yes I can so I've actually used this with our nursing students when we were talking about pain pain with children and we were talking about what sorts of procedures and for what we could use this for children um therapeutically so we were sort of brainstorming the uses of this can I just check out do people want a few minutes more on this one or shall we move on what I've said on the chat Debbie is if they click their gray icon on the center of the console by their mute and video button if you click the gray icon you can put agree or disagree so agree if you're happy to move on excellent thank you that's brilliant oh does someone have their hand up I think Uva did but he's low it depends on blessings okay and Tunde is saying it was a mistake perfect okay it looks like most people have had to go on this one Debbie I'd say I'm going to move on we've got three examples just so you just so you can know we're not going to be doing this this the whole the whole rest of the meeting and this is a more health related one so there's lots and lots of different ones on YouTube 360 that are available to look at and I think this starts to show you a little bit more so relaxation and obviously if you're a nursing there's a context or if you're trying to do relaxation or something like that but if you're an engineer I'm not I don't know maybe I'm making terrible assumptions here but perhaps you know you wouldn't be able to do that but there are some really really useful ones on all kinds of discipline areas that really you can start to embed far more within your curriculum so this is the next one so yep skip the advert and don't forget to tap on the split screen icon anyone actually got a google cardboard headset today ah good it's ah Simon it's amazing how um with a six pound google cardboard headset you can get on Amazon it just physically blocks out and makes it dark and it just by using the google cardboard it does um it does really it does immerse you surprisingly there it can um it can give some people a headache or double vision this cat has said some people yeah I think it's it's kind of a selection of tools that we're trying to you know we're trying to use and this is one of a range and what we found is you know if it's one off students wouldn't really want to go and buy one particularly so it's kind of thinking about are there maybe two or three different things that I can be using that will that you know so they can use it you know two or three times and really get the hang of it and start to think a little bit and they want they want to invest if you've got children at home um on the youtube app there's a brilliant waterslide and also a roller coaster one and little little children get completely immersed in what kind of a whoop and think that and sort of feel a bit frightened and feel like they're on the roller coaster or water slide so fantastic question Pat absolutely we can create them ourselves and we're going to be coming on to that in just a minute or two so um I'll move on to the the third one of this little series and then we will just move on so let me just move on one slide and oh we only did two examples we didn't we did two I've thrown everybody if you just go into youtube later though and you type in 360 vr video you can find the water slide and roller coaster ones which are tremendous fun um so yeah this this one is talking about um the fact that we have often sort of three or four students will go to our local hospital and use their 40 000 pound equipment to do a clinical simulation so this is showing an acute respiratory episode and these four students were lucky enough to experience that but some of our other students who are placed at yoverlord orchester um didn't actually get to take part so we're thinking a bit about how can we share this brilliant experience with with more of our students so linking to Pat's question we have a 360 camera at the university and we're going to go ahead and film these clinical simulations in 360 and then back on campus every what so the 400 other students can view this using a google cardboard and then that can ignite discussions and and talks about clinical decision-making because we have in the past haven't we we've actually periscoped a live session but it's kind of capturing it and i think quite a lot with these experiences it's being able to revisit and to to get the the deeper context and to really think about it and the simulation there when we visited you can see like the screen at the back that's showing the blood pressure and all of those sorts of things the person running the simulation can change all of those and then the student nurses have to adapt so it's trying to really get you know get get the sort of the raw footage and then we can think about ways in which we can sort of frame questions and have little standalone exercises for 10 minutes and those sorts of things that are going to enhance the rest of what we're offering okay i'm just going to go on to the next slide and this is something that our paramedic team ran last month because we don't have anyone in our underground car park and our paramedic students aren't able to be out on the ambulances as much as they would like to be with COVID because it's a very close situation obviously and i'm going to just see if i can link show you the video clip now then i thought that would link through and it's not playing live that's just gone bigger so um sorry just to interrupt here what might make it easier um is to stop sharing the slides and just share either a tab or a screen perfect and then if you select a tab or a screen um on some browsers there's a little option window where you have to tick share sound as well as the actual video so you can stop sharing the slides if that's easier okay what i'll do then i might just pop the videos the link into the chat and then people can have a look at that so i don't kind of lose myself so hold on just one second so let me just get the link give me one second and we can give people just a minute to do that can't we so we're using youtube quite a lot i've just popped it up there so i'll just wait for a second so people have the chance to kind of have a look on their phones and things like that and that one looks like you've captured it through zoom on to panopto it i have i have indeed so this particular one um just while people are starting to have a little look is um the main thing with paramedics is running simulations running live sessions it's debriefing with their clinical professionals and so setting up this underground scenario with their five different different sets of um sets of um people with horrendous injuries um what that does is it just offers them the chance to really think think a bit about how to evacuate everybody and then they also have had one of the ambulances that they'd kind of um put boxes and everything all around and the students had to improvise with um a backboard to evacuate one of our one of our simulator dolls and to evacuate that and with they had like a slalom course for getting somebody safely out right i'm just going to stop just for a second because it's a 57 minute clip and i know this is really interesting sounds there so i'll just give everyone a minute on silent and then we'll kind of reconvene if people can either say something in chat or if you go to the right button in the middle of the screen and say sort of ready to move on there's a faster thing isn't there where you can say faster i'm ready and you can clear it as well then when you're done yeah and all of these things that we've that we've developed you know these very small scale 360 you can also put into an oculus quest too and then it's just amazing so um the last time we were all on campus together and we had um we had the um the the save a heart day you know where everybody learns how to do the cpr we have a public day we had the crash dummy there we had our google car boards there and we also had one of the heart 360 so actually felt like you were going through a heart there on the oculus quest and so you just had you know people just having a really really different kind of different set of sensory experiences and it really really helps help to engage the public and to make that you know somebody's heart in their chest just much more much more real Jess Heidi are we ready to move on a little yes okay i'm just typing the the cost of an oculus quest around 400 pounds and then the perfect right okay so next so Heidi over to you yes so if you can just scan the mentimeter um i won't toggle over to presenter mode but if you can qr code the menti we'd like to know what ideas do you have for using resources like this in learning development so if you can take a bit of time um actually if i do how do i toggle over to me presenting you've got presenter rights i think i just stopped presenting show control not sure how i share screen marin can you stop me presenting so Heidi can pick up yeah absolutely sorry there we are thank you okay so Heidi you've got presenter rights now so if you open the collaborate tab at the both the bottom and then you could it's prompt you to to get a screen up marin will be able to help if you if you're not quite sure share content yeah that's right that's it share screen yep yeah so if you've got um if you've got an android phone is that sharing the cloud not yet hang on yay we need we were nearly there we were nearly there yes there we go fantastic well done everyone yeah so if you've got an android phone in the trigger doesn't work the menti code just is very kindly put up in the chat thank you safety induction play games oh see impossible places yeah i think that's brilliant virtual gallery client advice immersive scenarios taking instructions teacher training lab skills incident management so quite a lot of unsafe things that are unsafe immersive scenarios overcoming anxiety in fact when i asked my boys what they'd like to have on a 360 or on a digital world that we can program they wanted to fly and they wanted to go to space and they wanted they wanted to go to see penguins they want to go somewhere you know or some something brought to them where they are creativity field courses virtual museum tours yeah there were quite a few of those during lockdown weren't there we'll take a picture of that i've got a photograph of it i will i will tweet that out to the hash el sig okay so let's come back that should have i stopped have i given it back to you um yes i'm giving you back the power i just need to get mine up again i was just going to say to pat um meant to me to does have a kind of a profanity filter but students can get round of it because students are really really smart haha i've never had unpleasant students comments so far touch wood oh i have yeah um right i think i need presenter rights back marin because i can't let me just see if i can share my here we go your authority debbie authority no no i think i'm good let me just show now okie dokie and i just need to oh no racism when using it that's dreadful oh that's awful right okay so so thank you for all those really wonderful ideas we were just going to just have a little pause now because we've kind of been talking for quite a long time and had you doing lots of things and we just wondered you know are there any kind of initial thoughts or discussions about some of the ideas that people were thinking about so jess if you'd be kind enough to either to manage your people want to put the hands up and to say something or you know if you want to put some things in the charts or any thoughts or comments that would be really good and then hide you'll kind of just to just wrap up wrap up with some kind some of the the sort of higher tech stuff that we that we've been doing it's so i'm just i'm just looking through um the comments at the moment and then obviously there's some things coming through about Mentimeter but it is it's really interesting to see how virtual reality can open up new opportunities for students um it's accessibility and inclusive why is do you have back up because people don't have the equipment or i guess that's my big concern yeah so what we've done um when we've been um so i've i've done an i've used this in a large-scale lecture theatre so there's always going to be students whose phones are too big or it's a phone that's not new enough to support some of our software that we've created so they tend to just use each others and sort of share um when we've accessed it through laptops again if they've got a macbook sometimes it doesn't work so again they've shared um and then i suppose if they're if they're in halls of residence again they get together and share share bits but yeah there can be some um hardware issues with these things and of course quite a lot of the sharing stuff we did was before Covid so now that's why we're trying to think of building things in more strategically so people will have their own although with the Oculus Quest and things like that you can now get these hygiene face masks that are really cheap so you can catch you know so you can use them wipe down in between and there's some really really good um good briefings on how to do that so you can share a little a little more widely i think really it's about making your whole content very accessible and if you think about it you know if we look at sort of the classroom of sort of even 10 years ago everything we shared was text and where you've got these immersive kind of opportunities in a class it's helping to bread to broaden out different ways of accessing learning so if you think about my heart simulation that we were doing with the public you know there was a piece of paper where you could read about how to do CPR you could try on a simdol and do practical CPR you could use your own device and do and have a look at it and then you could be virtually immersed so it's really just trying to think about those wider kinds of issues and the really nice thing about particularly about creating 360 videos is of course you're doing the audio as well and i think you know where you've got supporting podcasts or you've got screens as well as as as well as language that makes a really really really good good sort of range of things so don't forget you know you're never going to be doing a two hour session and doing it all this way you know you'll be embedding all sorts of other things as well good point thank you i think there's a couple of questions coming through on chat about visual impaired students and the backup for those visually impaired so that's the audio obviously yeah there's the audio and they can they can certainly take take part i do think in health it's slightly different because students have to be what they call fit for practice and so if you did have somebody that was visually impaired it's very unlikely they'd be able to come on to a nursing or a paramedic program so perhaps it's slightly different in health and i think certainly you'd have to think much more carefully about the range of materials you're you're supplying in a particular session and you'd be wanting to be thinking as inclusively as possible and there's one more question from Sarah about a relevant 360 stock images or videos that you recommend well there's lots and if you have a look on the 360 VR on on youtube there's lots and lots and lots a 360 camera's about 120 pounds so we've actually had our students using them to create as sort of as you know as formative assessment and we've we've been working at Bournemouth University over the last couple of years we've just changed our assessment policy you know the actual policy documents to enable far wider and more authentic assessments and we're encouraging staff to pilot and we did find that was one thing that Covid made us do was to try and move away from the three hour exam and to think about different ways of looking at assessment but i think it's fair to say not every you know we need some really good pilots to be able to show the affordances because you'd have to check all sorts all sorts of things with using technology for assessment as we know right if there's nobody with hands up i shall move on okay so brief overview now of some high tech solutions Heidi just to save the toggle time if you just tell me when you're ready to move so this is a lovely talk about toggling yeah so to save some toggle time what i'll probably get you to do is look at the video of our software later because there's a walkthrough so what we did is we worked with the company and they actually so so far we've been looking at 360 which is really just 360 of real life and then you can also have digital environments made obviously you need to either use students at the university to build these or work with a company so we made one for diabetes a deteriorating patient with diabetes and the youtube walkthrough would show you more if you mind just popping onto the next slide please government style yeah i'll just i have just popped the link to your youtube into the chat thank you so in a nutshell we did a randomized control trial with 171 second-year nursing students they actually had superior learning gain compared to those not using the vr software this was accessed through a laptop even if they hadn't used virtual reality before they were able to use it quickly and intuitively students who had dyslexia and other learning needs found it really inclusive because we had text box popping up as well as the virtual ward scene scenario and they liked the instant feedback and personalized learning so the students really i might be able to move to the next slide actually enjoyed using it so thinking about our topic today though about scalability it's showing some of the um it's because we're not doing a slide share isn't it you think you need to put it into slideshow shine what i want to do is i'll ask the question and then show the next slide so it's a question this question is though when we've worked with this um software company so we've paid them a small amount of money for a proof of concept digital digital ward with a patient and the student is the avatar so it's been fantastic learning but what do you think of the barriers if you can put them in the chat what are the challenges we faced for scaling and innovating using this software well i'm just going to leave that off the screen now so what problems do you think we've had with you know trying to move you use 360 trying to do larger control trials what do you think all what what are the issues we've had money money money that's an excellent one john absolutely right anything else so i actually did the research with an academic and learning technologists who were assisting the students and so a lot of the barriers and scalability issues um um came from the learning tech technicians and academic yeah you're right cat as well you have to do fantastic briefings with external companies yeah time to develop and the confidence time absolutely yeah lots of people so money and time so just going popping back to our slide so technically the software was not always stable it would crash and frustrate students and it was actually the learning technologists working with the students sometimes felt a bit stressed they thought student experience might be damaged if the students software kept crashing they were worried about how the students would perceive that the variety of different phones if they were old or too large the types different laptops if they had max the software didn't always work on growing ongoing subscription and ip ownership dilemmas and then obviously amongst colleagues and management the the vision to invest in this moving forward and as you say the time and confidence to dip their toe in the water oops okay so right oh i was just gonna i was just gonna say so going full circle we actually tried this software approach first and working with the company we tried this first and now from what we've learned from this we are now using 360 video and google car boards and oculuses and that's we're finding a cheaper and more scalable approach moving forward sorry debbie absolutely no that's fine and then i was just going to finalize finally say and this is an even more immersive one um this is a beautiful project that some of you may know professor liz falconer and virtual a free and um liz worked with us for two years and so we were very much involved with the work as she was going around it and you could go to the um the a free stone circle and in their visitor center you could visit a free in 3d exactly as it been created two thousand years ago and the grass as you can see are the grasses from two thousand years ago and the music and it's just absolutely amazing so um that was just a really different way to kind of think a bit about um how to to do something really large and that was and with that we had a proof this had a proof of concept and then she went out to look for funding um and the initial findings there was a really interesting thing um you tend to think that it's more mature ladies that that will go to places like you know national trust virtual heritage all of these sorts of things and they absolutely loved the virtuality of it and it just sort of blew away loads of preconceptions about who really enjoys using immersive immersive technologies so that's our final slide and just so you know we've got all of the resources there um lots of links um Heidi's got a whole range of papers underway from her doctorate and then we've got links through to um different youtube clips that Heidi did as she was going through and um you can have a little look at that so I think we are just about at seven minutes too so hopefully we've got time for a bit of a discussion if I'll stop sharing and come back on the screen unless anybody wants to go back to something particular at the moment thank you so much Heidi and Debbie that's that's really really fascinating and inspiring stuff there um if you do have any questions do post them in the chat or put your hand up and we can come to you I know there was one about um software recommendations and I know Heidi you're going to get back to you about that um yes yes yeah I confess I don't actually do the filming at the moment I believe it's fairly simple we have a fabulous learning technologist John Moran who who comes with us and does the filming but I will ask him and also I think it would be brilliant if he could show me it's not very difficult to do the 360 I understand so I'm hoping he'll show me and then I'll know how to do it so I can get back to you about the software Pat yes you can make your mock your own 360 up there's some examples on how to do that on youtube so you can take a bit of cardboard and some scissors and some sellotape and you can have a go at doing it but most students if you're going to use it more than once they're happy to pay the four or five pounds uh what was Pat's Clark's question about expenses she was just saying she'd when she said about creating google cardboard I'd misunderstood and answered a different question but she was actually saying you know if students have a lot of expenses but I do think it's interesting how google cardboard can be the scalable option and it isn't too expensive and I think that's what we're trying to do because you know um you know we do make assumptions that Russell groups have loads and loads of money but I think at the moment nobody's got loads and loads of money to spend on things and it's just trying to get those little wow bits into our teaching and our students learning we actually found out a lot from using the google cardboard as well um through my randomised control trial you can look at the papers when they're published about what what's google cardboard's good for and what it's not good for so my software if you watch the video later um the nursing deteriorating patient was actually really interactive and so for google cardboard that made the students feel sick and so for that one it was best access access non-immersively through laptop so it depends what you're doing and how interactive your software is and what you know so it's the technology suiting the learning objective and what you want to do that makes sense no thank you yeah okay there any more questions hello no and a big thank you to john he's put it he's found the link on how to make a google cardboard and put them in the chat well done thank you well I know I'm going to be doing this afternoon having a bit of a plane some of the videos thank you um I'm gonna this has been a really great session really inspiring thank you so so much for your time and thank you everyone for coming today um I'm going to stop the recording now