 وإن تعجب فعجب قولهم اذا كنا تراباً انا لفي خلق جديد أولئك الذين كفرو بربهم وأولئك الأغلال في عناقهم وأولئك أصحاب النال فيه يا خالد الحمد لله رب العالمين والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وعلى آله والسحبه أجمعين أستاذ رحم الهسن السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته بارك الله فيكم for joining me once again on the hot seat podcast جزاك الله خيرا فها بمي as we often do I want to get straight into the topic insha Allah and today we're actually going to be talking about the issue of music and whether music is permissible or not in the religion of Islam and as always I'm going to give you the opportunity to start with your introduction إلى يوم الدين أما بعد إن شاء الله تعالى before I go into the ruling of music and what it is in our sharia I think it's very important that we first of all understand what these terms are or else what's going to happen is خلط confusion you're going to be talking about something I'm going to be talking about something and they might come out from there يعني when we don't have the same thing in mind and we're giving يعني two different rulings in order to come together is that we first of all agree on these definitions these terms and then we make our way so I've looked into the books of the علماء what they've said about الغينا for example that's the term الغينا means singing الغينا at the علماء when I looked at their categorization or the definition of the word I found that their categorization revolves around three and you can find it in the كتاب كف الرعا by ابن حجر الهيتم and also تلبيس إبليس by ابن الجوزي and also مجموعة الفتوة by ابن تيمي نتحفوا ساعدة المتقين by الزبيد those great scholars have mentioned the types I'm going to be mentioning إن شاء الله تعالى and those these types are of course كما دلت عليه الأدلة الشرعية the Quran has shown it and the sunnah and also the إستلاح العلماء this usage of the scholars يعني أهل اللغة أهل الفق and other than them so the first categorization is الغينا which is مباح so there's a type of singing which is permissible and that is that which is just مجرد رفع الصوت just raising the voice with poetry for example or other than poetry and it has recitation to it and it's not done in a way where you know when people sing singers professional singers they have يعني it's a science for them so they have rhythms they follow like a tone a tone, a pronunciation, articulation it's none of that okay fine it's just مجرد الترتيل and maybe a ترجيل which is more attendee it doesn't go outside the natural form of the person it's not something you need to study or learn and this is generally used according to the early Arabs when there was عمل شاق a hard يعني لبع work they were doing they would say these words or if they were carrying carrying anything heavy or they were traveling a far distance in order to make things easy for themselves and it's called according to the Arabs okay بيبلي they do it for their camels when they يعني sing for the also women sing it for their children okay it's women are singing it just to you know calm their children down for example rockabye baby for example may fall under this one and I think every every culture has something similar to this and also the slave girls back in those times singing to one another also يعني poetry and all of this falls under this form but there's no melody to it is that right or is there can it be a little melody to it like what do you exactly what do you mean see these times a bit like general terms so when you say are they melody to it يعني it's like a station of the Quran is there is their melody to it yeah to a certain extent yeah so then that's the level of it مباح this type we have there's no issue on this one and this is part of the سنة of the Arabs Arabs were like this this is not something new for them the way that the Arabs were in terms of how their personality and their singing was and إلمام الشاطب he mentions in his he says the way that the people are today when he comes to singing the Arabs before were not like that he says they used to just sing and they used to say those يعني words من غير أن يتعلموا هذه ترجيعات without having to study these rhythms التي حدثت بعدهم which came after so they used to just say as is and then he mentions the example of عبدالله بن رواحة the companion when he was doing it in front of the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and the Ansar were saying it when they were also building the trench نحن الذين بايعو محمدا على الجهادي ما بقينا آبادا like that and then they will respond to each other by saying اللهم لا عيش إلا عيش الآخرة فغفل للأنصار والمهاجرة these type of statements شاطب he says so this type is permissible it is from the غينة the singing which is مبح ولي ذلك the hadith إن شاء الله تعالى of our mother عيش ربي الله تعالى where the two slave girls were singing it's mentioned that بنو جوزي mentions in his تلبيس إبليس that جعفر بنو محمد and he said قلت لي عبي عبد الله I said to him about the حديث of عائشة عن عائشة حوانن يغنينا ايش هذا الغينا what were these two women who were singing in front of our mother عيش what were they and then he said غينا والراهكي بي it's the singing of the rider and he mentioned what they were like saying اتيناكم اتيناكم خلال mentioned in his كتاب الأمر بالمعروف عن المكر بنو جوزي mentions in his كتاب تلبيس إبليس so that's the type we're talking about here which is مباح also بن أثير commented on that same حديث of عوما دعائشة حديث الجارية تيني which كانت تغنياني العائشة the singing of عائشة he said اي تون شداني الأشعر they were reading poetry التي قيلة يومة بوعة which was said on the day of بوعة وسمي ذلك غينا اللي نوعين يثبوت فيه الإنشاد ذلك أستدركت عائشة وقولها بغبارة ليست مغنيتين هؤلاء الناس فقط يقومون بعمل وطبعا هذه المشاركة أبن حجر من جنس فتح الباري رحمه الله أخبرنا حديثة فجاريتين يقول الغناء يطلق على رفع الصوت وعلى الترنوم وعلى الحدائي ولا يسمى فاعله مغنيا وإنما سمي ذلك يقول وإنما سمي بذلك صعب من ينشد بتمطيط وتكسين وتهييج وتسويق فيما فيه تعريض الفوحشة أو تصريحه يقوله من تقول أم لا؟ يقول فقط ينشد كاملو يطلق على رفع صوت ويطلق على رفع الصوت يقول مجموعة ومتطلق على شخص يجب أن يتبقى حدائي حدائي again is the term that's going to keep coming back it's referring to the way that they used to sing for their camels إذا كنت في اليوتيوب هل ترى كيف شبت their camels when they come it starts moving it starts it's like also when they do it amongst themselves they carry heavy things and they do it together هذا أيضا يساعدهم يجب أن يساعدهم بمشاهدهم نعم أيضا قادع إياد يكتبه يكتبه صيوطي يكتبه في كتاب الديباج يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه يكتبه وغيناة ونصبي والحداقي هذه الأودره من الغيناة لا خلافة في جوازها بين العلمة So this type, It's like the scholars have all allowed it. And the self, many of them they've said it, it's called sometimes غيناة ورخبانية. It's called غيناة ونصبي. It's called huda. And this type which I just explained now. This one he says لا خلافة في جوازها بين العلمة. There's no dispute amongst the scholars regarding this. Okay. What's the second? Sorry. و قبل أن أذهب إلى الثلاثة، يأتي في الكثير من الأشياء التي أشاهدها، مثل الغينات الجواري في أيام وعيد في حديثة عائشة، التي كانت في يوم عيد بذكر من demolition مزمار هي أنت تستعمل بيوت فاقر هي أنت تستعمل بيوت فاقر كن تستطيع أن تكون مزمار أسامل المزمار كما دوت عليه السلام ، اللا يك给我 من فرد يتك الخبر بشكل بالنسبة أن تبقى ساحبو قاني المسلم فقاني المسلم قد يقدر إيطة مزمارة من مزاميري آلي دوت و المسلم أش حاريث و يصمعه مزمار من مزاميري آلي دوت و يخبروننا أنه يك برد المراد المزمار يقول أنه يعني صوت الحسن مزمار الشيطان عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وطبعاً يجب أن يكون يقوم بأخذ الوصول لكن الشخص يقوم بعمل أبو بكر وقلته لا لا هذا هو غينا حسناً أعرف سؤال أحد أحد أردنا أن نتأخذه أعرف أخر one is غينا الجواري في العرس يعني الجواري يقوم بعمل عيد فهذا هو أخضر الثاني نعم وخذ الرأس وخذ الرأس the second tab is غينا الجواري في العرس يعني الجواري this is فاني بخاري she said فجعلت جواراتي يضربنا بالدفة they were slave girls who were hitting the doof and they were talking about of course the fathers of the day of bedar ومباركة فوري واتعدو دي محاسيني بالكرم وشجاعة that's all they were chanting they were talking about dead and they praising them the third one is غينا والسفري ومن هو الحداء والنصب I mentioned that already وهذا يحرق الابلل والأدمي something that you say that moves a person of course there's no it's not outside the noobs of a person and of course it's the famous when ibn al-Qudama mentioned that he's Mughni عبد الامل الرواحة was doing and the prophet SAW he said رفق بالقواري رفق بالقواري رفق بالنساء because he was gay the fourth type within the first type that's permissible is غينا which is I already mentioned it people are building houses they're building something it's the same type which is singing they sing in order to get the work done and it's the one i mentioned and also a fifth type which is غينا والوزاتي والشجعان والفرسان and horsemen fighting in the battlefield all of which is basically legislation evidence that have come regarding it and it's all the first type so just to summarize the first type this is the permissible type and this is a type where it's just like your voice is raised and it doesn't go out of any kind of natural voice or rhythm it's not like anything that is too fast stretched نعم he says دون خروج عاني لحادة and he doesn't go outside the norms these people are just singing like and he just uses motivation and things like that it's the second one which is غينا والمحرم which is when it becomes يعني على وجه التلحين والتطريب والتمطيد والتكسير والتهييج للنفوس من ما يحرك والساكين ويبعثوا الكامنة this one the issue with it is that the person raises his voice but now he's following a melody he's following a rhythm it's something outside the norms this is something that Arabs by the way didn't even know that actually even at the Jahili at times even when they entered Islam they didn't know this it was not something they knew this came from them by the عجر the foreigners and the people who are non-Muslims وأهل التخنث من العرب and also the تخنث of the Arabs we said that the word yeah people who what was it again the word you used and also some من ما لا أرتدوا بقولون فيه وفاقي أو خلاف Arabs generally speaking didn't know this it was introduced by people who had saw off later on what's in Islam and of course عبد البر he says you just said that means the word رحمه الله it's referred to حرام على الدين المردوي ويطلق المكره ويراد بالحرام وكثيره في كلامه إمام محمد ويلي من المتقدمين يبنو النجار also said the same he said المكره ويعرف المتقدمين مكره according to the early scholars it's referring to which is حرام المتأخيرين المتقدمين is حرام المتأخيرين is لتنزي we refer to it as something disliked it's a very powerful statement he really explains it but he gives an example of happening in the Quran وقضى ربك الله تعبده إلا إياه الله is destined that we do not worship anybody other than Allah that's the shirk right and then Allah mentions ولا تقتلوا النفس التي حرام الله إلا بالحق we have killing an innocent person after the ending of the page he says all of that your Lord is Makruh Makruh here doesn't mean لتنزي الله mentions الله mentions and that's another important thing which is we can't take a time use عرف المتأخيرين so I interrupted you so Ibn Abdul Bar Rahim Allah he says it's very important so Abdul Bar summarizes it for me he says he says he prohibited so when the person cuts up the letters in a particular way وإفسادي وزن الشعري so the form of poetry that the Arabs were aware of by the way these ورودن قوافي that we study in poetry is what something they knew the person breaks it and he introduces this new you learn singing is the science you learn and this is just with the voice this is all by the voice if someone does it in that way if someone does it in that way it's not even allowed let alone if you did it in no human words say that point again if someone was to take عبادات المشروع and the person they came with they read it and recited it in a musical way okay and the person they came with they read it and recited it in a musical way okay then this is not allowed you're not allowed to do that even if it adds a worship of course and Imam صاحب المبسوط they speak about it يعني قرآن you can't do that in and scholars clarify that ابن القيم is a very powerful statement I would encourage the people to go and read it from the third volume page 493 he clarifies the two types that I mentioned he says the first one is the first one is natural when you hear someone saying it's like Allah has given you a nice voice that's what you would say to that person and that's the one أبو موسر أشعري who said to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم when the Prophet heard him recite the Quran and the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was amazed with his voice he said to the Prophet to know that you were standing there you were listening to me the Prophet I would have beautified my voice for you the second one is it is he says it's actually a profession from the profession out there it's outside of a person وليس في الطبع السباحة بهي the person is not natural it comes from he says you have to train you get told go back you say this properly it comes with all of that this type it's the one that's not permitted and it's not allowed I just have a question on this second type because I think this is just to bring you back to the contemporary discussion are we talking about just singing or are we talking about listening to this as well I haven't come to it I'm just saying a person singing I haven't come to listening to it I also haven't spoken about musical instruments I know we have it I'm just talking about singing this second type it's it's unanimously agreed upon من الصحابة والتابعين وقصحاب المدهب مجرد أكثر المحققين they stated the people who opposed is he went against it and and also and and and they opposed it لكن was already there before them the unanimous agreement was already there before them the clear text from the Quran and the Sunnah was already there before them and when he wrote this he said he says he says he says he said he already took it means وَالْمَنْعِ مِنْهُ وَإِسْنُ الْلَعْدُ وَإِنَّمَا فَارَقَ الْجَمَاعَةَ the people who went against the Jama'a هذان الرجلان these two men إبراهيم بن ساعد وعويد الله إبراهيم بن ساعد القرش وعويد الله بن الحسن العمري بوث of them بهدن كنسل ده خلاف ابن راجب did the same thing هذا كتاب كنسهة الأسماع page 20 he says رحمه الله تعالى he says أن يقع على وجه اللعب واللهوي فالأكثر على تحريم ذلك أن سماع الغنى وكل منهم محرمون بايره إجماع العلمائي على ذلك he says that الإمام الأجوريه بوت الإجماع في هذا الأشياء so this issue is not a disputed matter to be honest if you look at the early scholars of Islam and the ones who opposed it we say لا يعتدوا بخلافهم خلاف is not given any consideration إن شاء الله تعالى as we talk more into this issue yeah I have some questions about that as well بإذن الله الكريم any person you're going to quote today or any statement of the aim that you say they listen to music these are the three points that your points are not going to go outside of the whole discussion that you're going to bring is going to go back to one of these three anyone you bring me from the scholars that I admire I look up to you look up to we both respect again those who محمد بن طاهر القيصراري أبو حامل الغزالي بن حزمن وشو كاني we say they left the ejma we're not talking about it we're talking about the ones who were at the time of the Salaf من الصحابة anyone of them who you bring me their issue doesn't go out of one of these three so I always want us to come back to these three points okay the three the three points are number one إنه غناء مباح it was a gina which is permissible it can go out of و التكلف الجاري على غير سلن العرب that's the first one that's the first one the second so it's going to be the singing which is permissible we just talk about the second one is إنه سمعوه they heard it في أوقات مخصوصة they heard it at specific times كإيام العيدي like days of عيد والعرسي والقودون they have wedding and they have marriage they have a special which the sunnah has permitted all of that the third one is this was restricted by women doing it and the men weren't doing it and this act scholars unanimously agree that it's a women's it's permitted for women to sing for men singing which kind of singing are you talking about I'm talking about the second type women can do that women have an exception women are allowed to sing on the days of wedding which I want to speak about anyone who knows the situation of the pious predecessors يعلم قط عن he will clearly come to the conclusion أنهم براءوا من الكراءة بألحان الموسيقاء they are far from singing with musical instrument which is إيقاعات وحركات الموزولة معدودة ومحدودة they are singing the rhythms of the voices and all of the instruments he says وأنهم أتقل لله من أن يقرأوا بها and they were pious people to do such a thing ويسوغوها ويعلم قط عن أنهم كانوا يقرأون بالتحزين والتطريب ويحسنون أصواتهم بالقرآن so إيمنو القيّم says anyone who knows this enough will realize that they were not people who sang who read musical instruments or forced themselves to make their words يعني رائم according to the musicians and singers بنو رجب said the same thing رحمة الله وإتعالى إنه كتاب نوسة الأسماعي يساماعوا الألات الله ولا يعرفوا عن أحد من من سلاف الرخصة فيها إنما يعرفوا ذلك عن بعض المتأخرين من الظاهرية الصوفية منما لا يعتدوا به إبنو رجب says listen to musical instruments he says that's not known from anyone of the self what is known from is the متأخرين from the ظاهرية الصوفية حافظنا حجر he said the same واما استماعوا الألات الملاهي المطربة المتلقات من وضع الأعاجيم فمحرم مجمع على تحريمه ولا يعلموا عن أحد منهم الرخصة في شيء مدالكة ومن نقل الرخصة فيه عن إمام يعتد به فقد كدب وفتراء يقول إبنو حدر This is something he says إبنو حدر كلام is very he says you listen to musical instruments which was taken from the عجم Arabs didn't know this he said it's haram and it's unanimously agreed upon then he said ولا يعلموا it's not known عن أحمد ولا يعلموا عن أحمد منه الرخصة أحمد محمل is not known to give permissibility في شيء مدالكة ومن نقل الرخصة anyone who brings this الرخصة عن permissibility عن إمام from an Imam يعتد به which we take serious فقد كدب وفتراء that person is light إبنو جوزي in his كتاب تلبيس وإبليس and he speaks about the deceptions of shaitan he explains رحمه الله he says وقد كان رؤاساء الشافعي ينكرون السماع وأما قدوا قدماهم فلا يعرفوا بينهم خلاف وأما أكابل فعلا الإنكر ومن أضافة إلى الشافعي هذا فقد كدب عليه إبنو صلاح if you say it ويبو أحمد he didn't allow it شافعي didn't allow it إبنو جوزي mentions it I know I know I don't want to get too deep into discussion because I've also got some points I want to contribute but I just want to finish this foundation so far you said music is of three types the first type which is the permissible type and that is basically just raising your voice but not going out of like really emphasizing it too much it's just something that's natural and situations like trying to encourage yourself for your animals and things like that the second one is the impermissible type which is still no instruments involved it's still just your voice but you're doing it in a kind of melody tone that is not natural and it's like a skill and it's like a profession and the only exception for that is women is that exception women at all times or is it women in specific circumstances in certain circumstances okay so the only exception for that is women in special circumstances what's the third type before we now it's called okay it's actually the second type that we took but then the problem with this one they made it actually get closer to Allah by doing it okay let's see they've added something else on it which makes it an innovation so it's a sin but they get closer to Allah by doing it he says and that which the Sufiya introduced in this issue there's no dispute in this matter there's no خلاف in this issue ابنتي مرحمة الله he says these are misguided people by a unanimous agreement of the Muslims and no one from the Muslims scholars of Islam would say that doing this is waiting to get closer to Allah it's permissible بالمن جعل هذا دينا وطريقا إلى الله فوضال مضل مخالف الإجماع المسلمين he says he's misguided he's misguided in others and he opposes the إجماع of the Muslims okay ابنتي مرحمة الله he transmits the he's الإجماع المسلمين لأنهم جعلوا الغينا دينا وطاعة so these people in English they they took something which is حرام and then they made this something they get closer to Allah by doing he said اعتقاد هذه الطائفة the belief of these people is it goes against the Muslims and the unanimous agreement of the Muslims okay so you split up music into or you start singing into three types yes first one being permissible second one being impermissible and the third one is when people actually take the impermissible form and they use it in an attempt to get closer to Allah it's like an innovation in the religion the question at this point is what if people use the first type the first type which is permissible but they use it in a method to with the intention of getting closer to Allah is that allowed? no it's not an act of worship it's an عادة and norms it becomes an innovation but it's not as worse as the second one it's not as I want to say to the people who listen to music who are trying to justify it who are trying to justify it who are trying to look for this قيل and call a stable Ibn Al-Jawzi says in his Kitab تلبيس إبليس he says ينبغي للعقلي أن ينصح نفسه وإخوانه it is upon every smart person to be a sincere advisor to himself and to his brothers وإحذار تلبيس إبليس and he stays away from the deceptions of Shaytan في إجراء هذا الغينا المحرد in this prohibited music مجر الأقسام المتقدمة التي يطلق وعليها اسم الغينا يعمل الكل محملاً واحداً فيقول قد أباحه فلان وكريهه فلان he says don't take don't let be warned of Shaytan and his deceptions and how Shaytan wants to play with you wants to take you to this music and the types that we mentioned he mentioned the three types I told you in his Kitab تلبيس إبليس type which is permitted time which is prohibited and the third type which is innovation and not just prohibited alone okay don't mix those three he's saying to you take this one to use it for me this one say away from it and also he warns against يعني the statement of saying فلان made it permissible and so on so made it permissible remember it's religion don't let Shaytan deceive you so far we haven't talked about instruments yet this is all just singing with a voice right okay a few questions that I have at this stage then first of all you just said don't make it an issue of فلان said it's permissible فلان say it's haram that's exactly what you're doing when you call all these scholars they're you're relying on the opinions of men so the evidences that support me are the Quran the Sunnah of the Prophet and the إجماع أقوال أهلي العلم من الصحابة والتابعين لهم بيحسان يوم الدين I'm going to mention some statements if time allows it أصحاب المذاهي بالأربعة some of their statements I'm going to mention أريبان مالك شافي أحمد مداهب وهي said so this by the way it goes in line with المقاصد الشريح it goes in line with القواعد الكليا it goes in line with كتاب السنة إجماع أقوال أهلي العلم there are five verses in the Quran five five ayat in the Quran that prohibits music and we're going to get to them and I do want to discuss them in more detail but before we do again this issue of إجماع that you're mentioning إمام أحمد said رحمه الله anybody who claims إجماع فهو أكاديب anybody who claims إجماع then he's a liar and yet you're using this إجماع as a proof for yourself how do you reconcile between that? okay let me go to إمام أحمد رحمه الله statement which you're not the only person who uses it a lot of people use the statement of إمام أحمد من يدع الإجماع فهو أكاديب they say أحمد said this I'm going to respond to this from two perspectives the first one is إمام أحمد himself has has used إجماع as a proof was that before he made the statement this ناس أخن من سوخ or no أحمد يعني over the board he used إجماع his his medhabs have also said إجماع as a proof for أحمد in many issues the second point in response to your question I want to say is what did أحمد actually mean by when he said anybody who claims إجماع فهو أكاديب is a liar what did he mean by it so first of all he said many issues here many issues I want to get to mention some that he رحمه الله تعالى used إجماع he said عبد الله إبن الإمام أحمد in his مسائل he narrated from his father he said I said to my father إذا لم يكن if there isn't علي النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم if it's not from the prophet عليه الصلاة والسلام في ذلك شيء if there's nothing from the prophet in this issue مشروع that legislates it يخبر فيه عن خصوص general or specific what do we do in a situation like that he said if we haven't got something from the prophet in this issue whether it be general or specific that permits this issue what do we do الإمام أحمد said to his son he said يونضروا ما عميلة به الصحابة that which the companions did فيقولوا ذلك معنى الآية that becomes the meaning of the verse he then says إن اختلفوا if they differ if the Sahabas have acted upon this آية in this way then that's it but if they differ يعني اجمعوا الصحابة is using here رحم الله تعالى he said but if they differ يونضروا it's looked at أي القولين which of the two calls but whatever views are there from the Sahabas أشبه بقول رسول الله عليه الصلاة والسلام يقولوا العمل وعلي we look at which of the Sahabas is in line with with the evidence so if they don't differ then you don't even need to look at you just accept it exactly the second one is الإمام أبو داود in his مسائل also he asked أسأل ريما محمد he said I heard أحمد سمعت أحمد قيل له I heard أحمد it was said to him إن فلانا قال so-and-so said قراءة فاتحة الكتاب reciting صورة الفاتحة behind the Imam is specific with the verse وإذا قرئ القرآن فاستبعوا له فقال عم من يقول هذا he said who say this أجمع الناس أن هذه الآية يشوف الصلاة أن هذه الآية في الصلاة this is referring to the صلاة أبو يعلى if you go to which is he أبو يعلى الفراء his إمام الحلابلة في عصره وكان عالم عصري في الأصول والفروع رحمه الله تعالى was born the year 380 هجرية كتاب كل عدة في أصول الفق he mentioned إجماع for أحمد is an evidence because that's the first point but are you sure that all of these إجماع that you are innovative from إمام أحمد رحمه الله they didn't come first and then later these books were documented after after his statement for هو كاذبون أبو يعلى came after إمام أحمد I said he was born 380 هجرية but that's not إمام أحمد himself that's just a narration from إمام أحمد so these have understood from إمام أحمد that إجماع is a proof and they understand it might be wrong right they are going to come to where he meant by that but I'm just first point I wanted to speak about also these are the of the as I mentioned أبو إمام إمام في عصره إبنه رحمه الله in this كتاب المسودة اوصول الفق if you go to page 282 you find it. clearly رحمه الله I mentioned أحمد's view in the issue with إجماع now let's go to the meaning of what I meant by رحمه الله I mean by يفعل أحمد الرحيم والله يسيز ما ندعى الإجماع فهو كاديما لعل الناس قد يختلفوا هذه دعاوة بشري المريسي والأصم ماذا يعني؟ أحمد سيز anyone who claims إجماعي زالليا maybe the people of different these are the claims of بشري المريسي and الأصم now who is بشري المريسي؟ بشري من مريسي is بشري من غياث المريسي he's a ابن حجر يسيز الإلسان المريزان he says مبتدي عمضال لا ينبغي أن يروع عنه ولا قرامة no one should narrate anything from بشري المريسي he's an innovator ابن حجر يسيز and he's misguided no one should ever narrate from him ولا قرامة has no honor whatsoever خطيب البغددي he mentions in his تاريخ he says زنديق and he brings that statement from him أبو زلعة الرازي أبو زلعة says بشري المريسي زنديق a heretic also يزيد ابن هاروني he said about him بشري المريسي كافر ونحلل الدم he said he's a كافر and he's blood is permissible that's first of all بشري المريسي the second person is الأصام أحمد منشن he's an instamen الأصام is أبو بكر الأصام الشيخ المعتزلة الشيخ أفضل معتزلة حافظ بالحجر حافظ ابن رجب sorry إنه شرح أعلى لترمذي he mentions وأما ما روية من قول الإمامي أحمد من يدعى الإجماء فقد كدب ابن رجب الإمام of the mudhub he knows his إمام أحمد he says فهو إنما قاله إنكار على فقهاء المعتزلة الذين الدعون الإجماء على الناس على ما يقولونه وكانوا أقل الناس المعارفة بأقوال الصحابة والتابعين and he's سائن ابن رجب الحمبري he said أحمد's statement here was referring to بيشن المريسي and what's called أبو بكر الأصام الشيخ المعتزلة who used to just make merely claim إجماء and everything when they were the most ignorant people when it came to knowing the أقوال of the صحاب and the تابعين they didn't know anything about chains and then they would just claim إجماء إجماء إجماء and everything ابن رجب also mentions he said إنما فقهاء المتكلمين كالمريسي والأصام يدعون إجماء ولا يعرفون إلا قول أبي حنيفة ومالك ونحوهما they only knew the statement أم بيحنيفة ومالك and other than them ولا يعلمون أقوال صحابة والتابعين so this statement أحمد رحم الله which we brought من الدعن إجماء and it needs to be put in its in its right place so in the context obviously that he was referring to a specific group of people and he's not talking مطلق unlike مطلق unrestricted unrestricted نعم نعم okay the principle for acts of worship is that they're خرام unless you have an evidence to make it خرام إلا عادات وأسو the opposite way round right for the عادات for the the things in the الدنيا the normal things the customary things the أسل is that they're permissible and you need to bring an evidence to show the خرام إي نعم so the fact that you've mentioned a few أحديث in your introduction where the prophets صلى الله عليه وسلم it happened at the time of Eid and at the time of wedding and this happened and therefore it's permissible in this situation this I say no the أسل is that singing which is something in the الدنيا it's not enough to worship obviously singing without the intention of getting close to Allah is what I'm talking about singing أسل is permissible until you bring an evidence to say it's خرام what's your evidence I mentioned that my evidences is the evidences from the قرام and the سنة and the إجمع of the أمة I'm not saying this issue is disputed I'm saying this issue is unanimously I agreed upon that it's not permissible and of course when I now talk I hope the listeners who are watching me are understanding when I say ألغينا I'm referring to the second type that we took in the introduction the قرام doesn't allow it the سنة doesn't allow it the إجمع doesn't allow it are we going to talk about musical instruments at any point by the way or we are with a breath Insha'Allah and of course is that is that included in these yes by unanimous is the إجمع that there's no difference Okay let's go into the evidence is then that you have to say that this second type obviously we exclude the first type which already says permissible is the second type is حرام إن شاء الله تعالى دمي bring you there's five آيات نقران I can bring إن شاء الله تعالى the first one is ومن الناس من يشتري له الحديث ليضل عن سبيل الله بغير علم ويتقدها هزوى هزوى أولئك لهم عذاب مهين صورة اللقمان الله تعالى تعالى يقول ومن الناس من يشتري هزوى من يشتري له الحديث ليضل عن سبيل الله بغير علم ويتقدها هزوى أولئك لهم عذاب مهين من يشتري هزوى من يشتري له الحديث Okay نقران نقران آية نقران نقران نقران نقران Okay did the sahabists comment on this verse? Did they have an understanding on this verse? Of course Ideally, I'd like to take a professor of Islam ideally. If the prophet's Allah I didn't say anything about it or another verse from the Quran did not point this particular verse out then what we are now going to move on to is the companions. Right? We do the Quran with the Quran and then the Quran with the sunnah and then we do the Quran with the Sahabas. And those two things تسرق القران بالقران Did it come to explain this particularly in such particular words? We don't have the prophet's Allah لذلك again we have to go to fallible men but we were commanded to go back to the companions as الله تبارك وتعالى سلن القرآن ومن أن الله سيزوم ومن يشاق غير رسولة من بعد ما تبين له الهودة ويتبع غير سبيل المؤمنين أن they follow a path other than the path of the believers وصد the Prophet ﷺ حليت أرباظه بنساري عليكم بسنة وسنة الخرافاء الرشدين المهديين عضوا عليها بنواجد A path other than the believers. Where did you get companions in that? That I when it came down. Who were the believers at that time? You and I were not there at that time. Also الله تبارك وتعالى يسيد والسابقون الأولون من المهجرين والأنصار والذين اتبعوهم الله مجد المهجرين أني أنصار and those who follow them Hoping insha'Allah تعالى may Allah make us from those people So now we have to take this verse to the Sahabas Okay, agreed So the Sahabas of Ridwanu and Halim Majma'in We have three noble companions Three, not just companions but real knowledgeable Imam and a scholar of the Sahabas commenting on this verse We have Ibn Mas'ud who didn't just say الله والحديث يعني غينا He actually swore by Allah And this is not just a mere statement It's just غينا like that Two rewired to mention He says wallahi in one version He swore by Allah that this is music And another wording he said لا والذي لا إله غيره I swear by the Lord There is none worthy of worship That this is music That's Ibn Mas'ud Imagine a Sahabi had to swear That shows you the seriousness of it So that's his opinion Wallahi, we're going to come to that issue Is it just his opinion? We're going to come to it Ibn Abbas The man who the Prophet made dua'af صلى الله عليه وسلم ترجمان القرآن The most knowledgeable man in the Qur'an Ibn Abbas The Prophet made dua'af for him صلى الله عليه وسلم يسأل الله مفقه في الدين وعلمه التأويل Ibn Abbas يسأل له الحديث is music عبد الله ابن عمر الصنف عمره من الخطاب رضي الله تعالى عنه When he came to the ayah يسأل له الحديث And then from the other scholars The imams of Islam We have سعيد ابن جبير We have مجاهد ابن جبري سفيان الثوري يسأل إذا جاء كتفسير ومجاهد فحسبوك به If the Tafseer of مجاهد comes to you that's enough مجاهد عكريما We have We have We have We have We have We have And other than them All of whom said له الحديث He means music here The ayah Look what it says It says From the people others who buy له الحديث Why They misguide from the straight path For the greater They misguide from the straight path Of Allah For the greater With no knowledge And take her Who is one You can tell those people Inform those people Let them know That for these people They have a punishment Now I want to say something Very powerful here وَلَعَبْدِلَا عَبَسْ سَدْدِسْ وَلِبْلُمْسُعُوْدْ سَدْدِسْ وَلُعُمْرْ سَدْدِسْ This is a statement that became Famous amongst the Sahabas How do you know It's spread amongst the Sahabas The fact that we have no one From the three Noble generations Commenting on this issue It shows that it hasn't become famous It did We have to This is very important That we understand This is very important An issue A statement of Even al-Mas'ud And Ibn al-Abbas And Ibn al-Umar Is quoted on It's not one companion That said it And in the others As we're talking about Three big companions And we know Our Prophet عليه الصلاة والسلام God has promised us God has made an oath نحن نزل نذكراء وإن له الحافظ And we have said Down the revelation And we are going to protect it For us to think That this is what The Sahabas believed Because we don't have Anyone who said Even al-Mas'ud Ibn al-Abbas Ibn al-Umar It's wrong It's wrong But everyone They never heard it They never reached them No, even one other companion What if they never reached them And they were just so The usl is as permissible So they're all upon the usl سعيد من الجميل مجاهد عكريما أبراهيم النخعي حسن البصري ميمون مكحول ويتقول الرؤوس ويتقول الرؤوس ويتابعين Okay, now you're going into an issue اجمع upon the companions Because this statement was made And nobody opposed it We have no one opposing it We have no one opposing it Okay, I have an issue with that Because اجمع سكوتي Is not really considered As a delin According to the مجهور of the علماء Okay It's just like For example, the شايف العين المالكية The majority of them Don't consider it to be a delin It's just a fraction From the حنابلة and خنفية That would consider it to be a delin So what do you know That they don't You're right In the sense اجمع سكوتي We have to divide it into two مجرد اجمع سكوتي 100 اجمع سكوتي Is not a proof I'm with you on that I agree with you on that Okay, good But إذا تكررت الواكع If this situation reoccurs It keeps recurring By multiple people after that And it happens مع تطاول الزمان And it happened for A long period of time The أصوليين Are by unanimous agreement That this اجمع سكوتي Is a proof Unanimously You're saying If a statement is made By multiple people Across multiple generations And nobody opposes them Then by unanimous agreement This is a proof And it's not just a proof It's a proof That this is اجمع السكوتي Which is a proof And امام تاجودين As Sobki mentioned is رفع الحاجب Which is شرح على مختصر If you go to the great إمام تلمساني He mentions it Sobki brings his statement And his His works بماعال الجويني سيزي In his كتاب البرحان زركش رحمه الله زركش سيزي If I even mention زركش سيزي And he says الشرط العشر He mentions the 10th condition And he says أنه وإن كان ذلك مما يدوم ويتكرر وقعه والخوض فيه فإنه يكون السكوتي اجمعا عن وهذا مختاره الإمام الحرامي في آخر المسألة وأن محل الخلاف إذا فورض السكوتي في زمان النسين The usulheen only differ upon He says وما حل الخلافي this place of difference is إذا فورض السكوتي silence happens no one objects but it happened for a short time Okay That's the one that's questionable Amongst the علماء I'm saying to you This messa'la has happened for a time عبد الله بن عمر عبد الله بن مسعود عبد الله بن عبار And we have And we have these great tabi'een all saying after سعيد من الجبال مجاهد عكريمة عراهما النخعي حسن البصري ميمون مكحول And other than them And your All over 23 إمامs have said it So you're standing upon this principle but your own إمام إمام الشافي he disagrees with you I told you إمام الشافي He said He said It can't be attributed to a silent person Speech Speech can't be attributed And of course that makes logical sense as well Just because the others were silent about it You can't come along and say I'm now going to say they also affirm and they believe in the same same ruling This احتجاج of إمام الشافي لا ينصبوا إلى ساكت ينقولوا that a silent person we cannot attribute a statement to him We have to first to understand what شافي he meant by رحمه الله Everything goes back to What did they mean Why do you can't you take the why do you have to make it with Jazzy By the way He said it رحمه الله He said it رحمه الله في حالة واحدة In one situation only Which is If a hakim is judging between Muslims in a particular issue There is no sunnah known for it from the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم Those who are around this hakim They don't know a sunnah from the prophet in this issue This hakim is now going to judge it based on his احتجاج Those who are around him They are not allowed to dispute with him because they have no evidence And he is obliged This hakim is forced to do what to base things on his احتجاج He's not allowed to blind follow He's a much-taid These people even though they may oppose his opinion it's their احتجاج They keep silent from him because based on me doing احتجاج and you doing احتجاج and you're the person in authority And they all know here that it's all based on احتجاج And no one's allowed to blind follow as they are all مجتهد شافعي say the ones who chosen to be silent here and not speak to them حاكم and say look you're wrong They only went silent because they know their احتجاج is not stronger than احتجاج cannot nullify another احتجاج He said there's silence here لا ينصبوا إلى ساكي تنقولوا He mentioned it clearly رحمه الله in his كتاب الأم You can go back to it That's a red hearing to be honest شافعي رحمه الله himself believes in اجمع سكوتي himself when it is what as I said to you before he believes in it رحمه الله if the issue kept going I mean there's دوام and the وقور I mean something keeps going on for a very long period of time شافعي رحمه الله and we've studied the math so we have another issue with this له الحديث meaning music that the reason for this is clearly given ليود الله عن سبيل الله I agree with you if singing or music or this kind of impermissible action is used to misguide people from like for example some of the مفصلون they say that when the آيات القلعان were being revealed people would try and talk over it or sing over it or try and misguide the people say couldn't hear the verse of the Qur'an no Muslim in his right mind is going to say this is okay of course it's not but then to take that every single type of music even the person at home he's just listening to it on his own the Qur'an is not recited it's not being played he's not trying to misguide people he's just listening to it out of enjoyment to say that is now not allowed because of this آيات that's a stretch it's not as we said before the أحديث and the Qur'an and the سنن the نصوص الوحين they explain one another the آيات is saying that these music that the people listen to it's a means of misguidance no it's saying let's get that out first of all لحو الحديث حديث obviously been speech you've said that some companions have interpreted you've said some companions have interpreted that has been music the other companions have remained silent therefore we believe all companions have interpreted as being music that's your claim right no my claim is that these Sahabas no one said what your statement is wrong يعني كانوا صحيحون بعضهم بعضهم لكن إفتص اختلافوا التنوّر يعني إفتصام من they have differed in their worldings but what they are talking about is the same it's not a contradiction it's not a contradiction it's in two different perspectives different overall some scholars might mention different meanings for a verse all of that can fall under it وهذا هو ما أدخل. مثل بعض الأسحابات التي تقوم بمساعدة الأسحابات. لذا جميع ذلك لا يجب أن نتكلم. لا يجب أن نتكلم. إذا كنت تقول إذا كنت تختلافوا التنور. لكننا نريد أن نتكلم. هذا يعني أن there isn't اختلافوا تضاد. الأسحابات لا تختلف. أحد يقول أنك أخبر. أحد يقول أنه موسيقى. أخر يقول أنه ليست موسيقى. لا يمكن أن يحدث. الأسحاب الثاني. هذا يجب أن تقوم بسبب لماذا الحديث ليست موسيقى. لأن الناس يستخدمونها لتساعدة الناس من المساعدة الأسحابات. هذا هو المساعدة التي ليست موسيقى. هل تعتقد أن الموسيقى today يجب أن نتكلم. لأننا نتكلم مع الناس who live in our time who are watching who listen to music. هل تعتقد أن اليوم that music is a means to misguide others. لا أعتقد أن Our mind should be used to rule something. لا أعتقد أن هذا المساعدة is a logical argument that just because it's Okay, so if in our time I say yes, but in 100 years time the music scene changes No, it's getting worse, sir. We can see the way it's heading right now. We can see where it's heading. And let's take this verse. Many people and who are watching who are most sincere and honest to themselves would say to you now and I agree. Music has been my downfall. My demise has come from music. It's misguided me from many things. I don't pray anymore because I started listening to music. I now speak in a certain way and it is a despicable way because of music I acted in a certain way because of music and I've started to fornicate and adultery and all because of music. By the way, I want brothers and sisters who are watching to really understand this point. The music here that the Sahabas and the Tabiat are talking about is not as bad as the ones today. I need the ones today and I don't think any person who's I don't even think no Muslims were asked let alone the Muslims they would say this is not right. This is not right. I think a lot of Muslims who have contention with this they will probably agree with you that 95% of the music out there now in the existence today is terrible, it's bad it's wrong we should stay away from it as Muslims we shouldn't but to say all kinds of music just to say someone's just living listening to Beethoven's symphony for example just in the comfort of his own home and there's not even words there's just noise and he's just to say that on this it's not not convinced this is the point I feel like it's very important that we all come to understanding it and that is the Sharia doesn't always base things on a few any things that's something of minute something very small to make that the general rule and you forget them you just mentioned it's 90 how many how many did you say 95% 95% of it you said it's dangerous 95% of the people are watching this and then you come for example I'm just trying to just give a keep my top point so even to the ones who say it's impermissible I want to speak to them as well 95% of the people are listening to rap and they're listening to very despicable lyrics and they're listening to music that's very vulgar and it comes with videos that have bad things in there 95% of the people are watching now and it talks about murdering and killing and blood 95% and then you come with the photo of even a hasmin or shoukani or others and you meant in your head Beethoven's and his sympathy it just it makes no sense I'm just coming from that perspective without us going into sources and evidences but let's explain this with the the prophet the prophet there has come from him 14 evidences 14 حديث that says music clearly mention music music 14 حديث go ahead the first one is the most famous the Imam the Imam narrated وغيره other than him from the they narrated from Abu Malik or Abu you're not even sure of the companion that was narrating this حديث and you're trying to use it as an evidence the companion being unknown لا يضر it doesn't harm it doesn't harm the حديث because whichever of the companions it is for example حديث if there's disputed Abu Huraira narrate this or did it for example narrate this it doesn't harm the حديث because whichever direction you go or to whoever he narrated with Abu Huraira narrate this or Bin Omar or Bin Abbas or Aisha it doesn't matter but if we're not sure which one of these two how do we know it might not be a third or a fourth we can't have certainty but we have many حديث جاء رجل إلى رسول الله a man came to the prophet and he said oh messenger of Allah إبهام الصحاب لا يضر يعني the ambiguity of a companion doesn't really harm a حديث anyone who studied the science of a hadith knows that there are 30 or 40 views regarding his name Abu Huraira what's his actual real name عبد الرحمن بالصخر is it something else actually the fact that we don't know the name of a Sahabi doesn't matter details related to that all we know is that the Sahabas are دول so أليمام البخاري narrated it that أبي عامر أو أبي مالي ربي الله عنه he said I heard from the prophet قوم من a people يستحيل لونه they will permit for themselves الخرأ which is زينا خرأ means الفرج and الحرير means silk والخمر and alcohol والمعازف and music so the hadith mentions there are going to be a people who are going to make it حلال for themselves what I want from us to take from this hadith a few things first one is that the prophet mentioned لا يكون انه they will be يعني من أمة from my umma قوم من a people يستحيل لونه they will make it حلال for themselves in other words حرام they will make it حلال for themselves and he mentioned some things that we won't dispute that is حرام like الحرار زينا والحرير and the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم والخمر I don't hope no one is going to dispute the impermissibility of alcohol from now and last but not least والمعازفة okay all of these points to prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and mentioned them together fine I've got I've got questions on this hadith because I knew this would come up in our conversation I have criticism of this hadith from two perspective and of course I shouldn't say me I'm saying those who preceded me but the first perspective is the chain and whether this authentic it's very nice and very easy to just say to the people and pull the wall over the eyes and say this hadith in صحيح البخاري without mention that it's معلق it's not fully connected it's not a fully connected chain all the way back to the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and that's important because the proper name of صحيح البخاري as we know it is الجامع المسند الصحي it is a jamiah it's a musnad he's got connected chains if بخاري had a connected chain between himself and the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and I'm trying not to get too technical about the people at home if he had a connected chain he would have bought it in this book because that's the title of this book the fact that he bought this hadith this narration without a connected chain shows that even he doesn't believe a صحيح ألمام البخاري رحمة الله you're right his kitab is جامع الصحيح المسند and it's true his kitab he conditioned for it to be authentic whatever he brings in it which is connected first of all the narrator that you're referring to that he didn't mention so there is a narrator that you didn't mention will you agree on that? isn't that problematic even before we get on to who the narrator is? no he didn't mention but he didn't use what scholars of hadith refer to as the way he took that narration from was not صريح they say it's not direct he said so he could have said it someone else and then بخاري heard it later they say there's possibilities the ones who weaken it is that they say بخاري said هشام العمر said now he didn't say I heard from هشام العمر which is very important in the science of hadith right these kind of terminology is very important you're right it's very important now what we have to understand is if we're going to speak about the science of hadith we first have to understand a few things number one number one هشام العمر is من شيوخ البخاري he is from the شيوخ of بخاري he is بخاري's teacher number one very important that we understand that يعني بخاري took from هشام العمر that's number one number two the scholars of hadith علماء والحديث scholars who have grounded themselves studied hadith they mention عن عنات البخاري because قالة is like is similar to عن meaning for the people when قالة and عن don't show that this person heard from this person directly it doesn't show it it's not clear in showing that so they say قالة and عن is the same عن which is also still the same because it's not clear the person heard from this person so they say عن عنات البخاري and عن here means of course the قالة as well عن عنات البخاري محمولة عنات صالة in English means بخاري when he uses the word عن or he uses the word قالة or the likes of these words it's connected for بخاري there is a reason it's because بخاري is not a مدلس a مدلس a مدلس means a person who wouldn't say هشام said and he dropped out people بخاري is not a person who do that he doesn't do that so he's not a مدلس and ابن حجر explained that and spoke about that in the مقدمة why did he say قالة here then well then I come to it ابن حجر mentions it in his هد يساري if you want to call it or he's who the sari he mentions it there the بخاري is not a مدلس and if he uses عن or قالة it's like حدثنا it's like he heard it it's like he heard it it's like he heard it for the scholars when they say حدثنا there are some scholars when they say عن we say he's a مدلس where is it سريح let me give you a few examples it's حاق السبيعي it was حاق السبيعي he's a مدلس حمايد الطويل for example is a مدلس and there are قتاج من دعمة السدوس he's a مدلس there are people who are مدلس if they they have not narrated with حدثنا or أخبرنا or بأنا and it's not taken okay because they're known for when they say عن they're actually dropping people out of the chain that's one the second thing is that when بخاري narrated he said قالة and he didn't say قيلة okay yeah so even if we take your argument that this is just معلق but he did it with سيغة الجزم سيغة الجزم means he did it in an affirmed form معلق when he brings something which is معلق معلق means disconnected he doesn't mention his شيخ he brings it when he believes it's weak he brings it with روية he's done this in other places قيلة of course حمنا حجر رحم الله at points and he's also written a book called تغليق تعليق and he brings all of the معلقات مخاري so he said and he didn't say it was said it was said so this shows this is called سيغة الجزم that's another point that we would have taken to consideration okay another point that we have to really take into consideration is that the حديث itself with the word حديث and it was narrated where with where it's صريح it's clearly متصل from هشام العمر other than بخاري فخوص ابنه حبان بروتي انه صحيح الامام الطبراني بروتي انه معجم الكبير بيها كي بروتي انه سنة للكبراء برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني برقاني أيضًا، الإمام الميزي يقوم بإستهديبه أيضًا، الذهب يقوم بإستهدائه منه بلاء إبنو حجر إنتغريغة تعليق رحم الله الجميع. فهذا حديث يقوم بإستهدائه أيضًا؟ نعم، حديث أيضًا، where you said that you've just said that all of those people narrated all of them. With the wedding قالوا حدثناه شامي بنو عمارين بإسناده بالحديث، with that chain to the hadith. الوصول؟ الوصول، فهذا حدثناه شامي بنو عمارين بإستهدائه، another point I want to mention is that this hadith has been authenticated by أئمة الكبار، أئمة كبير في العلم، that's when it's Bukhari himself when he said قالة، وإنه يقوم بإستهدائه، was معلق، بإستهدائه بسيغة الجزم، and if it brings it, it's a sega to the jazm, it's a right according to him. So the hadith of Bukhari is authentic. ابن حبان authenticated it، اسماعيلي authenticated it، أبو ذر الهروي authenticated it، الحاكم النسابور authenticated it، ابن صلاح authenticated it، البرقاني authenticated it، النووي authenticated it، ابن تيمي authenticated it، ابن قيم authenticated it، ابن كثير، ابن رجب، ابن ملقن العراق، ابن حدر العسقلاني، الصنعاني، ابن الوزير اليماني، استخاوي شمس شوكاني، الده لوي، أن الشيخ نصر الدين الأرباني رحمه الله تعالى authenticated it، وستفعل ذلك، ابن حزمن، يمكننا أن نفعله، ابو خامد الغزالي، يمكننا أن نفعله، أمام شوكاني يمكننا أن نفعله، أعني نحن نعلم بطيئة. لا، أمام الشوكاني يمكننا أن نفعله، even though it's of the opinion that music is permissible، لكنه يُثنقه هذا الحالي، لهم هذا الحالي الصحيح، أمام ابو خامد الغزالي، وإبن حزمن؟ أمام ابو خامد الغزالي، وإبن حزمن، are not a imma to the hadith, we have to understand that، يعني، especially ابو حامد الغزالي، بضعته مسجأ، when he comes to a imma of the hadith, he's ha'id-e-boulayn, very weak in the hadith, he's not seen, are we going to mention in the context of إبن حضر، يعني، نو إي عراقي إبن حضر، I mean, I don't know we... sorry، I'm him I'm him I'm him I'm in hadith, he's ha'id-e-boulayn, I mean, a person at night, and he picks everything, هذا ليس فليده ابن حزم الله again he has غرائب when he comes to haith he has statements which are very strange for example he statement like I'm not telling you this is a fool يعني this many haith haith he weakens this is not his field this is not something we will go back to him حزمه especially when Iraqi says in his al fiyah عن عانة he says عن عانة كخابري المعازي في لاتسقي لبن حزمين المخالفي عراقي الشيخ of ابن حاجر he says the haith عن عانة البخار يعني this haith he authenticates it and he says don't give any attention to what ابن حزمي said زي امام الحديث ابن حاجر زي نوديل العبن they won't know scholars for the science of haith they've strengthened this haith and I would encourage anyone إن شاء الله تعالى was منصف وصنصية to go to the Kitab إغاثة تلحفان في مساعد الشيطان by الإمام ابن القيمة الجوزية that Kitab is يعني مهم جد for a student of knowledge to read he responds to all of the doubts that they might bring regarding the haith and issues related to it so he's a very يعني كلام ما شاء الله first of all in page 391 you'll find the response to a lot of the points الشيخ الباني has تحريم وقالات الضرب where he responded to ابن حزمين يعني صلاع الحديث في way if you want you can find it there إن شاء الله تعالى my second question about the same haith is that إمام البخاري رحمه الله he actually placed this haith in the chapter of those who seek permissibility of drinking alcohol by calling it other names now he's not mentioned music he's not mentioned anything like what you're trying to understand from this haith and just like you say about the companions many times if we trust بخاري to narrate the haith to us we should also trust him with his understanding he's not understood what you've understood from this clearly because he's put it in a chapter of drinks no just first of all بخاري didn't say this haith does not show the permissibility of music he didn't say that your point is only the fact that he mentioned it your question should be why did he put it under the chaptering of يعني the people who were named خمر other than its name why did he choose to put it there بخاري does that for many many reasons and the concept of يعني the issue of الإمام البخاري chaptering is a science itself there's a 10 volume book written by عبد الحق الهرشيمي on just the chapter of بخاري and how he looks for the correlation between the حديث and also the يعني the chaptering but somebody can flip the table on you and say to you what about the حديث إنما لبنية who was the first حديث أبو خاري narrated and it's talking about the intention and he brought it under the chaptering of يعني كتاب البد الوحي and he brings it in that in that section where the descending of the revelation what does إنما لبنية have to do with the the descending of the revelation but he did it for يعني does it mean that بخاري doesn't believe that the actions are based on the intention is that what he is that what we're gonna derive from that no fine well he narrated the حديث of course seven other places as well and in صحيح but what I mean is that the chaptering of بخاري does not support your point it just shows that he chose to use it for something else okay then the next question that I have on this particularly حديث هشام إبن عمر who you've also mentioned in the chain this is a person who a lot of scholars of حديث have weakened such as such as إمام و دهبي for example what did he say about him إمام و دهبي said so first of all he mentioned him in ميزان العتدان what did he say so that's a book what is that book first of all that book is where he mentions weak narrators right yeah he speaks about narrators okay and he speaks about him in this in this book he grades the narrators over there okay he says هشام إبن عمر he used to be a truthful narrator but then he changed he is narrated 400 حديث that have no basis he used to not narrate unless someone paid him he was accused of changing the text إمام أحمد said he was reckless so let's go bit by bit so you said دهبي he mentioned he mentioned ميزان العتدان yeah correct just as a side benefit فططلبت العلم and students of knowledge who in شاء الله تعالى the Kitab ميزان العتدان by الإمام الذهبي رحم الله شمس ديلة ذهبي إبن حجر came after him and he wrote a Kitab called لسان الميزان لسان الميزان and the لسان الميزان is written by إبن حجر العسق العاني and the reason why he wrote it is that he wanted to come after إبن ذهبي and basically correct him in some of the the any mistakes he might have fallen into in his ميزان العتدان that's a side benefit so when a student is reading ميزان العتدان he must go back to لسان الميزان by إبن حجر حجر has much Allah تعقيبات very beneficial تعقيبات and points especially if you have the تعقيق of sheikh عبد الله عبد فتح ابو غده عبد فتح ابو غده ما الله تعالى forgive him for his يعني mistakes and showcomings he was a ashaari ما الله forgive him for his showcomings but truly was a skola عالم حقيقة especially in المحديث the points that عبد فتح ابو غده رحم الله رحمة واسع puts under لسان الميزان you it's amazing so that's the side benefit for the students of knowledge now let's come back to دهبي okay دهبي رحم الله تعالى has a statement of his in his كتاب سير علامي نبلا regarding what's his name هشام العمر and he calls him he says هشام العمر ابن نصير ابن ميصرت ابن أبان الإمام والحافظ والعلامة والمقر عالم والأهل الشام he calls him yeah he also said he was a truthful a narrator a narrator before but then he changed this concept of هشام العمر changing when he grew older and the statement I was said about him I want to come back to it who really came from he came from أبو حاتيم الرازي I want to come to that إن شاء الله انتعالى but there's a statement الخليلي mentions in his كتاب العشاد في معرفة علمائي الحديث he mentions هشام العمر الدمشقي he said تصقى وربما يقع في حديثه غرائب sometimes it may happen that in his حديث some strange things happen and شويوخ الشامي from the teachers of فضع فوه he says the weakness يقع من شويوخ إلى منه the mistakes that people see is not him it's the mistakes that happen from these شيوخs he's quoting from them right yeah they made mistakes about the حديث so how do we know that this حديث isn't from them we're going to come to that إن شاء الله إن شاء الله we're going to come to it okay so that's the first point يحيب المعين إن سالبعه إن سيقطن الإمام البخاري authenticated him because he brought him in إن صحيه and the scholars they mentioned the narrators that are mentioned إن صحيه البخاري the scholars mentioned this for البيت الحديث they mentioned this generally speaking the scholars that are mentioned by بخاري إن صحيح they say جاوز القنطرة they have passed the قنطرة the قنطرة is after the person goes on the سلاد يوم القيامة مالله سبحانه وتعالى make us pass that path وإميكم إلا وريدوها كانا على ربكة حتما مقضية ثم ننجل لدينا تقوان الظاليمنا فيها جيتي the people of Allah is going to save other pious people that they own when the person passes that place they go to a place called the قنطرة وإلا تبارك وتعالى وننزعنا ما في صدوره من غلن إخوان ونعلى صدور المتقابل the brothers who had يعني hate and animosity for one another that's the place that everybody will get their rights once you get to the قنطرة there's only جنة for you so they say that بخاري the people who brought in his narration جاوز القنطرة he's they're safe you can't be criticized just give you two examples let's take حشيم مبنبشير حشيم مبنبشير narrate he's a he's a strong strong scholar in حديث right حشيم مبنبشير if he narrates from ألمام محمد بلشيهاب زخري his hadith are not accepted by بخاري but he will narrate it from other people right بخاري is a science بخاري is a science it took 16 years أبن حجر to understand the ins and outs of صحيح البخاري 16 years that's why he wrote the two volume المقدمة فتح الباري he called it حديث ساري أبن حود الساري say it both ways حشيم مبنبشير when he narrates from زهري بخاري will avoid him why because حشيم مبنبشير in the day in which he took the hadith from زهري the day when he went to زهري and he took the hadith from him it was a windy day it was a windy day and he wrote everything and it was a windy day and the papers they went into the air and what happened was حشيم مبنبشير tried to take the papers back but of course the notes went back and forth he didn't memorize it he avoided taking those narrations from him but if you find him you أبس حق السبيعي for example if you find you didn't finish that if you find him if you find him it's حق السبيعي it's he avoided okay it's a different it's a different yeah he avoided him through زهري another example is أبس حق السبيعي أبس حق السبيعي بخاري narrated from him and his narrations of سفياني بلعوياينا بخاري never narrates from him but his narrations from سفياني ثوري and his narrations from شعبه شعبه تبن حجاد أبو بصطام العتكي the narrations are accepted because يحمل المعين said he's the strongest when it comes to the narrations of who شعبه تبن حجاد أبو بصطام العتكي and the narrations of who is سفياني ثوري بخاري narrates from those two but he doesn't accept the narrations of him when it comes to سفياني بلعوياينا the point I'm trying to say to you is that even if criticism even if criticism were put towards هشام أبن عمر we will say his narrations بخاري selected them that's a side point that you always need to remember if you find a narrator that's criticize جزن صحيح البخاري بخاري picked him from all of his mistakes to versions which were right he does that رحم الله that's very important but here I'm arguing لا هيزة تقى هشام العمر هيزة تقى أحمد العجل he said هشام العمر الدمشقي ثقة صدوق الإمام النسائير رحم الله praised him دارقوطني دارقوطني إمام العلال بيثوي دارقوطني عياز كتاب كوط إلل الواردة they said أملاه من ظهره أملاه من حفظه he narrated the whole entire 10 something volumes يعني from memory from memory ذهبي I think it was him he said that if it's true I think it was اللبام الذهبي he said if it's true that دارقوطني dictated this book from memory then he's no less than أحمد محمد لنا بوزور عتن العزل ععمته من العزل by the way they used they said about دارقوطني as a side benefit they said about him سبحان الله they used to say they said about him he would يعني he put things in his ears when he walked outside because he would memorize people's conversations oh his memory was that sharp this sharp there was a strange story that was mentioned about him دارقوطني this is a side point yeah they said that two men were arguing and they were speaking a different language okay and he saw the argument going back and forth and he had he's يعني caught and wool in his ears he chose to take it out and came to the two people and he said what is the problem what's the quarrel that you guys are having and they told him their problems later both of them went and they went to the court to argue the court said well who's your witness in this situation they said دارقوطني is our يعني شاهد the witness he was there he was present when we were both arguing he was there keeping in mind دارقوطني they were quarrelling and they were arguing in two different languages so he came to the courtroom and the judge asked دارقوطني is it true is it true that you were present when these two people were arguing over an issue he said yes what did they say to each other he said they spoke different language both of them were speaking two different languages I don't know what they said but I memorized it yeah he quoted this first man he quoted the second one what he said and يعني he kept the information for them intact passed it on the qadi said we know what happened الله اكبر gave the judgment to this دارقوطني رحم الله و تعالى they said his حفظ was تابب يعني strong solid رحم الله he said صدق كبير المحل and his man he said هجمل عمر he said he's a reliable person and he said كبير المحل okay he said he's a high position a high station even دهبي is the word that you mentioned yeah this statement then because it's very difficult when you go back to ميزان الله اهتدال you find that there is has next to it صادحة but did that have you mentioned all this for his narrator 400 حديسة of no basis he used to not narrate unless someone paid him this is different from I don't have the reference I'm gonna come to that إن شاء الله تعالى إشو but what I want to mention is that he mentions ألمان with دهبي in his ميزان الله اهتدال the fourth one in page 302 he mentions دهبي mentions صادحة what you mean? you have to now go to لسان الميزان look what does that mean it's a rums it's a sign what does that mean إبنو حجر mentions because he knows دهبي he studied دهبي that's what he's working on لسان الميزان he's working on the كتابه الميزان اهتدال by دهبي he says if صادحة is written before the name فهي اشارتنا إلى أن العمل على توثيق ذا لك الرجل دهبي say he if صادحة is written that means that that person's حديث are authentic and he's acting upon it okay okay so that's دهبي what he said also حافظ مغلطي in his كتاب اكمالوا تهديب الكمال he says قالس خاوي في جمال الفقراء he mentions هشام وثقعة امين عند عيمة الحديث صيوطي mentions it I mean scholars of hadith even دهبي رحم الله mentions that he's a رأسا في الكتاب والسنة now there is a شبهة a doubt that's brought forward بغاريه شاب العبارة that Ahmed ibn hamil said something about him that he said طياشر خفيف you have that quote you mentioned I think yeah he's reckless yeah and he said that statement was attributed to Ahmed ibn hamil mm-hmm and the scholars mentioned why he said it okay they mention why he mentioned it دهبي specifically mentions it رحم الله وطعاله he says اما قولوا الامامي يعني احمد he said طياشر فلأنه بلغه وعنه أنه قال في خطبته احمد وخطبه ذاتهشام العمر سرنه خطبه الحمد لله الذي تجلال خلقه بخلقه the one who became ابحارة to his creation with his creation so this كلام فهذه الكلامة لا ينبغي اطلاقها the statement دهبي says it's not it's not permissible to just say it like that وإن كان له معنى صحيحه even though it has a correct meaning لكن يحتج بها الحلولي وليهتحادي الحلولي the one who the pantherism the one who believes الله is creation يعني he became one they use these kind of statements so when احمد was told that statement in that context he said طياشر خفيف and look where دهبي said after that he said وبي كل حال whatever the situation is كلام الأقراني بعضهم في بعض يحتمل statements of contemporaries pairs يعني يطوا ولا يروح يطوا ولا يروح يعني we mentioned it يعني that's what دهبي was saying about احمد's statement so هشام نعمار is a ايمام بخاري رحم الله جوزي but as for the statement that ابو حاتم الرازي mentioned that he's خفيف the change that I unequivocally differ with that because الامام هشام نعمار his حديث are very well known يعني we have many chains of narration that they go into but the way I'm going to respond to this is the following way هشام نعمار his حديث are known very well they are known what very well ابو وليد البرجي you mentions that هشام بنعمار he gave his حديث to يحي من معين and I read قاسم السلام and they looked at it and they observed these narrations they had it in a book that's what he narrates from it's called as they write it and they memorize it from their notes all of the narrations that هشام نعمار write يحي بنعماعين and I read قاسم السلام both of them looked at it and he mentioned نظر بنعماعين if he had it he looked at my حديث all of it except the حديث of سويد بن عبد العزيز and then he said to me سويد is ضعيف الحديث that's one so the حديث of هشام نعمار are well known يعني it's صحيح that's number one the second response is the heavy بخاري تُكْفَرْ مِنْ بِفُهِم قبل تغيير before he even changed بخاري تُكْفِرْ مِنْ بِفُهِمْ تَغيير and evidence to that is that بخاري mentioned that he went to he traveled لقيت أكثر من أهل من ألف رجلين أهل الحجاز والعراقي والشام والمصر we mentioned that he had our reputation of the شاعره he mentioned that he went to many places he mentioned he went to بصرة four times he went to حجاز six times he mentions يعني how many times I went to كوفا I don't know I mentioned and then here he mentioned وَبِالشام and I went to شام by the way شامل عمر is from the علماء الشام okay so بخاري says I went to شام and I met الفريابي أبا مصهر أبا المغير أبا اليمن I met these people and many other people if we look at the time of فريابي فريابي died 2012 أبا مصهر الدمشق he died who was the شيخ of شام he died 2018 هجرياء that shows that بخاري was there before he went to شام to hear from الشيخ of شام before the year of 2012 at least because فريابي was the earliest when who died and that's before the death the death of هشام العمر 40 years before that when did the هشام عمر change though see the call of what's his name is his name أبو حاتي مرازي is that he mixed up in his last stages of his life 40 years cannot be considered last stage of a person's life that's a and a a long time okay the scholars they mentioned he mixed up just before he passed away that's the ones who mentioned it so that's that one the third one is that you have to understand is that you have to really understand is أبو جعفر الركيلي he said when بوقاري wrote صحيح who did it presented to he presented عريب المدينة نحمد ابن حمبل يحمل معين you have to understand this سعيل بوقاري was presented to who the greatest scholars of حديتة أبو جعفر الركيلي he said in this that عريمام البوقاري when he wrote صحيح he quented عريب المدينة he said check my book when عريب المدينة he checked it by the way عريب المدينة is the one that بوقاري said استسقر تنفسي I belittle myself in the presence of this man and also عريمام البوقاري presented to أحمد نحمد and he presented to يحمل معين so these three men have agreed to this حديتة في شمن أعمار as well of بوقاري إنه صحيح okay they all have found it so this shows you that this كتاب تليبام البوقاري رحمة الله تعالى wrote is يعني this حديت is accepted by the أيمان to the حديت the ones who don't want to take this حديت because this حديت if it becomes صحيح it is صحيح we're we're going to talk about that بالضبط آه so I'm getting from that though what you mean is that this is directly clearly categorically stating that music is حرام which is strange because having gone through the narrators and I can comfortably say that you've dismissed a lot of the arguments brought forward for that from the text of the حديت itself and again it might be worth because it's been a while since you narrated the حديت narrated re-narrated the حديت and telling me what you understand from this حديت so the حديت we have the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and mentioning لَيَكُونَنَّ إِعُوبِي مِنْ أُمَّتِي فَمَيْ بِيْبِيْبُلْ أَقُوَامْ أَبِيْبِيبُلْ I mean there's going to be from amongst my أُمَّة a people يستحلون الحراء والحريرة والخمراء والمعازف there's going to be a people who are going to permit for themselves the following الحراء زينة الحريرة silk الخمراء alcohol and المعازف music okay so in this حديت the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he mentioned خمر which is حرام by unanimous agreement زينة which is حرام by unanimous agreement and الحريرة which is prohibited for the men by unanimous agreement so we have all of that and then on top of that the معازف the music was mentioned in this context I mean this is this is something very well known in صول الفقس فقس كدلالة which is as you I'm sure you know دلالة تل اختران is not a very strong argument in صول الفقس and a lot of the scholars of صول they actually say this very very weak to use this as a proof and one of the reasons they say that is because there's an there's the whole issue is connecting certain things and saying when it's bought together in one manner in one statement then they all take the same mooning now there's a problem here because there's an آي نقلان which does something very very similar yet the two things that are connected have that I have got it here قلو من ثماله إذا أثمارا وَأَعَتُوا حَقَّهُ يَوْمَحَصَادِهِ الله says in this آي eat from the from the fruits when they when they harvest and then pay it's حق pay it's right which is there's a cat obviously here on the day that they harvest now we have an issue here because according to you because these two things are mentioned together the ruling on both of these things must be the same yeah we know and I'm sure you'll agree that eating is something that's permissible it's not واجب it's not خلام it's eating is permissible yet paying the cat is something that is obligatory so الله is connecting two things here something that is permissible and something that is obligatory which completes you completely refutes your claim that everything every time some things are connected they must all take the same ruling like in this حديث that you're claiming so we you're taking me to an issue in صول الفق دلالة الإقتران دلالة الإقتران أكون تعلماء صول الفق is two types okay you put a good argument to be honest and it's a strong point دلالة الإقتران is two types right the first type is what the scholars refer to as دلالة الإقتران which is تهام اما دلالة الإقتران which is يعني ناقص those two is either تهام or ناقص okay in another wording in another way the scholars refer to is دلالة الإقتران which is اما عطف المفردات اما or the second type which is عطف الجمل أما عطف الجملة عطف الجملة عطف المفردات and عطف الجملة what does that mean okay the آية that you brought right now الله تبارك و تعالى إنسورت لأن أم آي 141 الله تبارك و تعالى he says كلوم إذا مره إذا أثمرة that's one sentence and the next part is إذا أخذ الواو out أتو حقه يوم حصادي which is the second sentence الله تبارك اشتراك بينه ايواو okay this one it's تو جملة تامة تاني two complete sentences yeah here we have تو جملة تاني تامة تاني two sentences which are both complete we have مبتدأ انا خبر او رفع لنا فاعل that's a complete sentence in Arabic language we have كلوم إذا أثمرة is a sentence then الله says و أتو حقه يوم حصادي which is another sentence now here you're right if that happens that type which is عطف الواوي بينه جملة تاني تامة تاني this one according to the علماء this one has we can't connect them all in ruling because we say كلوم إثمري إذا أثمرة is مباح أتو حقه يوم حصادي is a word واجب which is a cat is the obligatory is referring to here you're right in this situation they don't have the same ruling but the second type is where we're talking about which is دلالة الإقتران which is عطف المفردات what does عطف المفردات mean عطف المفردات means زيناب مؤدبة وفاطمة زيناب is disciplined well-mannered and فاطمة now زيناب مؤدبة these are two words and it's a complete sentence right زيناب مؤدبة if you took that out وفاطمة can't stand by itself it's one word it doesn't make sense it's عطف المفردات it's one word so فاطمة here is connected to مؤدبة discipline this one according to the علماء of أصول by unanimous agreement this one is يعني it is accepted and to them this one is not like the آيكولو مفرداته إذا أثمرة the scholars agree upon this this is called عطف المفردات زركاشي mentions it in his بحر المحيط he says أما إذا كان المعطوف ناقص sometimes the scholars they call it عطف ناقص because it's ناقص it's deficient it's not a complete sentence by itself or they call it عطف المفردات this one the scholars he says أما إذا كان العطف ناقص when he says فلا خلافة في مشاركة للأول there's no dispute amongst the scholars that it goes under the same ruling as the other one right I see so when the scholars say that دولالة الإقتران is مختلفن فيه they're actually talking about the first type which is connecting sentences and not individual words yeah if they're two جملة تيني تامة تيني then the جملة أولى and the جملة ثانية don't necessarily have to be connected to each other that's that's that's that's also علاقودين البخارين إنس كتاب كشفوا الأسرار which is a show of أصول البزدوي he mentions the same he says he said إذا كان ناقص if it's naqas يشارك الجملة المعطوف عليها في خبري وحكمه جميعا that's same سدر الشريعة إبن مسعود البخار إنس كتاب توضيحه لمتن تنقح he mentions it شهابو دين القرافي إنس كتاب نفائس الأصول I mentioned four imams they mentioned it راضا القرافي إنس كتاب نفائس الأصول he says نص النحات the grammarians have stated as well على أن المعطوف يجب مجاركة للمعطوف علي في أصول الحكمه الذي سيقى الكلام لأجله فياقعوا الإشتراكي في أسلت حريم it's important to translate some of that so what it is is that if it's عاطف المفردات he's saying it's obligatory according to the grammarians and it's also according to the if it's connecting words if it's connecting words individual words then whatever the whatever the hokum whatever the ruling goes on the the first word for example it takes the ruling for the other words as well it's just if the word can't stand by itself as a sentence in the situation here let's apply it on the حريث the حديث he says يستحلون الحرى والحريرة والخمر والمعازف so we have يستحلون they make permissible الحرى that's the word يستحلون الحرى and the other ones are connected to it so that in itself is a complete sentence but the other ones they stand on so you have so can you say ل يكوننا من أمة أقوام الحريرة والخمر والمعازف it's not a sentence you need the other sentence it can't stand by itself so according to the علامة دلالة الإقتران which is المفردات توجب اشتراك وتحدي المعطوفات في الحكمة شرائية you have to always be under the same ruling so according to that principle that you just mentioned then one of the things that was mentioned in that حديث like you said was silk and you rightly said that silk is حرام for men but permissible for women so by that token then music is حرام for men but also permissible for women now you can't say that but how do you know silk is حرام for men from the حديث in سنة في بي مجر so you've done the exception for the women with an external evidence I'm just using your principle alone you said that when things are connected like this they take all the same ruling they do according to this حديث by itself but they have different rulings but you only found out that there's a different ruling for silk with an external evidence if there came an external evidence that said music for the men is allowed or not allowed and it's permissible for women music then we would say okay you're right it brought external evidence just like you brought for the silk right I see the أصل of the حديث originally is that everything is حرام for men and women but then we have an external evidence say there's an exception for the silk if this حديث was the only حديث out there we would say to women you're not allowed to wear silk لكن حديث that permits silk for women is when the Prophet ﷺ grabbed it and he picked it with one hand with his left and his right and he said this has been made حرام for the male of my ummah the gold and the silk he picked them both up and the Prophet ﷺ said this has been made حرام for the أقور أمتي the men of my ummah so you know that silk for men is حرام with an external evidence but merely just this حديث by itself it's not the case okay and there is another contention that people bring with the understanding of this حديث when the Prophet ﷺ is connecting all of these things together and they say that some things might be okay and permissible individually but when you connect them together and you do them at the same time it becomes impermissible so for example even though it's a secular law let's take the UK law for example driving is permissible and drinking alcohol is permissible but when you do them according to law obviously the secular law of the UK when you do them together drinking and driving it's not permissible and that's basically what we're saying with this حديث and the reason why they say that is because there's another narration in the Sunnah of Ibn Maja which also makes this clear so the حديث that you mentioned is that the there will be people who will consider it to be legal, zina wearing silk, khamar and music okay it's like what they're claiming here basically is that the Prophet ﷺ is describing a scene where people are drinking and the people are wearing silk and they're listening to music and they're committing zina this is like the party scenes quote unquote that we have in the modern day world in clubs and stuff like that what the Prophet ﷺ here is saying that when all of these things come together he's not actually individually saying this is khadam this is khadam and this is khadam but rather he's describing a scene a scenario and the reason they say that is because the حديث in Sunnah of Ibn Maja and you can have a look at it here it says it's a very similar situation what the Prophet ﷺ said it's narrated by Abu Malik Ash-Ali people among my nation will drink wine calling it by another name but so far exactly the same and musical instruments will be played for them and singing girls will sing for them Allah will cause it after swallow them up and turn them into monkeys and pigs what he's basically describing a scene people are drinking wine and at the same time music is being played he's not saying individually these apps are prohibited but when you bring them together they become prohibited I mean again I think that's far-fetched what about the ayah for example let me flip that at you I'm saying you're wrong in that understanding each one independently is what Allah is going to destroy the people for even the حديث ترميه the narrated it who's Ibn Abi Dunya narrated in يدم المراهي Ibn Abi Shayba narrated it on the authority of Imran ibn Hussainin that the Prophet ﷺ يكون في أمة قذف ومسخ وخصف يسأل يا رسولة when is this going to be يسأل إذا ظهرت المعازف وكاثرت القينا قيانو وشوربت الخمور if people start to consume alcohol and they get قيانو قيانو is جمع قيناتن قيانةن is women who sing for them if they start listening to music music or instruments the Prophet ﷺ said Allah is going to deform them that's going to be earth is going to swallow them وما هكذا this you're saying all of it has to happen in order for the punishment to come right yeah what about the statement of Allah والذين لا يدعون مع الله إله إلا هكرا ولا يقوتولون النفس التي حرم الله إلا بالحق ولا يزنون وميف على ذلك يلقى أهثامة الله يقوم بشكل محاولة سبحانه وتعالى أنه محاولة جدا يفتح هؤلاء these people هل أنت تقول أنه يجب أن يشرك ويقوم بشكل مخلوق ويقوم بشكل مخلوق عندما يذهبون إلى تلك المشاركة هل تفهمي my point yeah of course nobody would say that لا one would say that كل شخص يقول إلا يجب أن يجب أن يقوم بشكل مخلوق إذا يشرك فقط يصبح مخلوق إذا يقوم بشكل مخلوق أو من يصبح مخلوق إذا يقوم بشكل مخلوق أو من المخلوق أو من المخلوق يعني أنه يكون مخلوق فإنه يكون مخلوق نفس الشيء الله تعالى يقول وم يشاقق الرسول بعد ما تبين له الهودة ويتبغي غير السبيل المؤمنين نوله ما تولى ونصله جهن مساعة مصيرا شخص يقوم بشكل مخلوق أنه يكون مخلوق ويقوم بشكل مخلوق إنه يكون مخلوق يعني أكثر إذا تفعلوا كل ما you're سبحان الله وتعالى you're the west أنه يمكنك أن يقوم بشكل مخلوق أنه يمكنك أن يقوم بشكل مخلوق أنه يمكنك أن يقوم بشكل مخلوق يمكنك أن يقوم بشكل مخلوق أنهم لا يجب أن يكون مخلوق أخذ سؤال الخديد لأنني أعلم أن هذا one of the most أحيانا أفضل on the side of those who say that obviously الموسيقى is خلام أخذ سؤال الخديد هو الشخص صلى الله عليه وسلم وقوم بشكل مخلوق أمتي يتحدث عن المسلمين yet we know that if شخص يجعل خامر for example خلال this is إستخلال which you said in the previous podcast is كفر which is disbelief so how do you reconcile the fact that it's an action of disbelief yet the Prophet ﷺ said in my ummah شيخ الإسلامي بن تيميا has a very good response to this he's got a Kitab كود بيان والدليل في بطلان التحليل شيخ الإسلام تيميا and on the 20th page he says رحم الله وتعالى لعل الاستخلال المدخول في الحريت إنما يكون بالتأويلات الفسدتي فإنهم لو استحلوها مع اعتقاد أن رصوصة أسراب حرمها كانوا كفارا ولم يكونوا من أمتي ولو كانوا معتريفين بأنها حرام لا أشكوا لا أشكأ لا يعاقبوا بالمسح كسائل الذين لم يزالوا يفعلون هذه المعاصي ونهي has another يعني the point iblotemia points up here رحم الله وتعالى he says that الاستخلال here إن حديث is referring to they use interpretations which we saw today we can in the hadith because of Hisham and Ammarin say that the Dalala to l'Iqtaraan is not a hujja وهاكذا these تأويلات الفسدات that was used by Ibn Hazmin by also used by Shoukani that's what has happened here because of that they are going to be sinners and not because they are kufar they would have been kufar if they saw it to be haram and then they said is to halal for me I don't care that's when it would be kufron بالله العلم from the statement of iblotemia he says فإنه لو استحلوها مع تقادئ أن الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم حرامها كانوا كفارة then they would become kufar ولم يكونوا من أمتي and they won't be from his ummah but if they say that no I don't even believe أصول الحكم in the first place I believe this is not actually haram it's not clear then they become sinners and people fall into major sins and they are going against Allah and his messenger and it's very dangerous and then he brings the statement of the poet عبدالله من الموارك وليسدوه هل أفسد الدينة إلا الملوق واحبار رسوء ورغبانوه يعني the people you see they've taken يعني evil scholars who've told them this is permissible and gave them fatwa so it's not kufar but it's a major major sin now fine I want to put the hadith to one side I think we've comprehensively gone through the chain first of all and then secondly we've gone through the text of the hadith itself as well give me like a 30 second one minute summary of the hadith and what that really really shows for the people at home before we move on to the rest of the point the hadith of the one we just discussed in the one about the إستخلال and this hadith shows the severity of the person who يعني commits zina and who يعني the male the male who take silk and wear it and use it and those who drink خمر and music each one if we look into it by itself for example الحرا which is zina we know the Prophet ﷺ he said when I was ascending high up in the sky I saw a group of people who were being burnished in a furnace these were the zunnat when the Prophet ﷺ was told these were the people who were doing zina and the hara now we have the the خمر the ones who drink alcohol and consumers of alcohol يعني the prohibition that has come regarding them إنما الخمر والميسر والانصاب والعزام وريجسر من عمل الشيطان فجة نبوه it's the actions of shaitan knowing the music that you're listening to and that you're adorning and your admiring has been mentioned things like that first of all your heart should move and say وووو يعني زينة and because a lot of people are watching today will be like وووو I mean I know zina the haram even if I do do it I still know it's haram I don't try yeah I don't justify it even the ones who drink alcohol will say برو I know it's wrong man you know I'm just I can't stop it I've become used to it my culture, my people we do this and etc so the same thing should be for the music of course know it's prohibition and also try to stay away from it another thing is the fact that the Prophet ﷺ had told us in the hadith itself وَلَيَنْزِ لَنَّا أَقْوَامُونْ إِلَا جَنْبِيَ عَلَمِنْ يَرُحُ عَلَيْمِ بِسَارِحَةِ اللَّهُمْ there's a punishment for these people and that is Allah is gonna deform them سبحانه و تعالى and I actually believe I actually believe a lot of these rappers and these singers Allah has deformed them already what do you mean by that look at the way they scream and they shout and they bark يعني jump on the table running around يعني things when you really sit down and you think to yourself سبحان الله يخي سبحان الله this is not saying a man whose trousers is falling down يعني you can see his backside this is not a sane person sane person wears his clothes a man whose name is dog he calls himself an animal the worst of animals dogs يعني this is you can see Allah has really humiliated him put him down and a lot of them they make noises of dogs when they sing and etc so the actual changing of their form it's not it's not far-fetched okay I want to move on now I want to go back to the ayah in the Qur'an that you mentioned where you said الله والحديث and you gave the interpretations of the companions that are behind who said that this refers to music and I really want to focus now on that the Adilah from the Qur'an if that isn't enough if this hadith in of itself isn't enough for people and they say we need something from the Qur'an for example the first question I have about this particular ayah that you bought when you said الله والحديث is talking about music isn't there another ayah and sort of جمع but Allah says وَإِذَا رَأَوْ تِجَارَةَنْ أَوْ لَهُوَنِنْ فَضُّوا إِلَيْهَا وَتَلَكُوْكَا قَائِمَا Allah says that in this ayah that when there's the companions actually left the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم in prayer to attend to trade and he also uses the word الله here as well the same word you're using are you saying that this means music and in which case the companions ran towards music and ran towards business Allah connected the two together تجارة and الله and according to you تجارة is permissible therefore music must also be permissible No, first of all the argument I want you to understand is that وَمِنَ الْنَاسِ مَا يَشْتَرِيْ لَهُ وَالْحَدِيْتِ The scholars that commented on it like Ibn Abbas is the one who explained this ayah and sort of جمع in this way and explained this surah to me in this way and it's very important we understand it these are Arabs they're not just Arabs they're the most honest and the most sincere and the most knowledgeable people that we know in our Ummah أصحاب رسولي الله صلى الله عليه وسلم they looked at these verses and they commented on not based on their whims and desires but based on ودي ذلك as some of the scholars like أليمام الحاكمين أصحاب رسولي and other great scholars I don't want to go into that too much they believe تفسير الصحابي on a verse له حكم رفلي it's like the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم it's another discussion for another time علا كلين here we have now it doesn't contradict itself if the word له الحديث has many meanings there's no denying that it could be a word that has many meanings it could be used in many different like so your claim is not that it only means music that's not your claim that's not my claim and that would then your point and your contention would be very solid and strong against me if I only said له الحديث it only means music I'm saying no why and I mentioned before that's called اختلاف التنوه اختلاف التنوه I know okay, any other ayat from the Qur'an that you want to bring on your side for example there are many I said five verses at show one of them يصورة النجم وان الله تباركه تعالى he says وانتم سامدون what does that mean the word سامد بن عباس سامدون بن عباس رضي الله تعالى عنه he said the word سامدون it is الغينة بالحميرية it is it means the word سامدون actually means music in the language and the dialect of the people of Hamer so what's the context of this because you just said وانتم سامدون you guys are you are yeah what came before it what I was أفا من هذا الحديث تعجبون meaning in English أفا من هذا الحديث are you amazed with these يعني حديث this discussion this speech are you amazed with أفا من هذا الحديث تعجبون وتضحكون are you laughing ولا تبقون are you not crying وتضحكون ولا تبقون وانتم سامدون while you are listening to يعني music okay so here the word الغينة according to إبراعباس sorry سامدون according to إبراعباس رضي الله تعالى عنه he said that the word وانتم سامدون is referring to الغينة according to بالحميرية in that language it's a dialect they say it like that and the ayah he used it and that meaning أئمة التفصير took that view from إبراعباس like اكلمة مجاهي الضحاك محمد إبراحنفية and others don't you think that all of these ayahs talking about these kind of situation is really talking not about music unrestrictly but it's talking about music when it's been used to like for example the ayat of the Qur'an are coming and people are like I'll give you an example for example I'll give you an example for example let's just say they're listening to podcasts and we both agree that listening to podcasts doesn't have any music anything that's خرام is permissible right but if someone was to listen to a podcast and the time for صلاح came and he's so consumed with listening to the podcast that he didn't want to pray and he left the صلاح that's also obviously not permissible right now but another person just wants to listen to the podcast which is driving into work for example and he's just listened to it just as entertainment there's nothing wrong with that so why do you have to say that music in all its forms and all its entirety is خرام when these ayat are clearly talking about the time when music is being used to distract you from worshiping Allah the music that was listened to at that time it was used to distract the people from the Qur'an and the remembrance of Allah yes it did we're not good do you admit that yeah of course of course it did it did distract that's the situation which it came in okay and I don't deny the fact that it's the case for us today as well today that there's no denying to that that many people today the large amount of Muslims today are listening to music giving precedence to music over the Qur'an yeah that's true if not memorise the Qur'an but they've memorised albums and lyrics that's well known well established that's true but it doesn't necessarily make it خرام in of itself just like listening to podcast over the Qur'an doesn't mean podcast now we go to the point of the fact that they used to do that with music that's what they used to do they used to listen to music and they used to try to avoid hearing the Qur'an okay and الله تبارك وتعالى unrestrictedly prohibited it when it became يعني an act that was done to distract people from the remembrance of Allah from the Qur'an and Allah prohibited مطلقا whether you're trying to distract yourself from the Qur'an or not it got prohibited and it became something which is خرام so if someone comes after now and says I'm not going to do what Qur'an I did or I'm not going to do the people that these verses came under what they were doing I'm not going to do that we're going to say now لكن the حكم has been made if it's music if it's يعني musical instrument if it's songs without the conditions that we mentioned خرام okay it's خرام the only ones that you can take out are what the the points that we mentioned those are the إستثناءات the exceptions only anything other than those exceptions and I want somebody to remember this and a lot of people do this it's a sad reality but a lot of people tend to do this okay I for example say everyone in this room go except Zaid now what's the general ruling here that everyone should leave and the only person who can Zaid if خالد comes up to me says to me shall I leave I said everyone leave I gave a general ruling you full it was your name mentioned under the exception no music and songs are خرام the شريعة has permitted situations contexts times conditions types these are these we will not deny it the شريعة are prohibited permitted these ones fall under the general prohibition don't use these specific situations to head back and destroy the general ruling of the prohibition how big a problem do you think music is nowadays how widespread is it in every country when you look at this they were saying about music in the Qur'an and the shaytan and the shaytan إنها ينبط في القلبي النفاق it brings hypocrisy you're saying they didn't even know the music where we're seeing today and the fact that it's so widespread as well and how evil it is and how widespread is it you go into a supermarket you can't help but hear it you got this it's going on the taxis it's going everywhere you'd agree with that obviously I subhanallah used to deal with brothers on the street who tried to come off the street who want Allah to guide them subhanahu wa ta'ala and they were on the streets and committed crimes and some of them being imprisoned and whatnot والله كأنه is like as though it's a محل إجمع amongst all of them they all said whenever we would go and shoot up someone or stab someone or this or that or rob or this we'd have to listen to يعني music and specifically a particular type of general we'd listen to drill if we listen to that music we don't know what's happening around us يعني we would go out there and stab someone he says to والله sometimes I wouldn't even have to take any drug substance just listen to that and the lyrics and what he says I'll go and I'll murder someone I would if not necessarily I'll stab him and put him into coma or whatever I would rob I would this I would that all of it with music you said earlier that the Salaf obviously they didn't know that music was going to be like this was going to end up like this did Allah know that it was going to end up like this that's why Allah generally prohibited it so Allah knew that it was going to end up like this he knew that of course Allah knows that right so then why isn't there a clear فعنه a clear knowing that music is going to be such a big issue it's going to be so wise but it's going to cause so much harm it's going to cause so much damage when Allah talks about Shaykh for example he says إِنَّ اللَّهَ إِلَّا يَغْفُرُ أَنْ يُشْرَكَ بِ when Allah talks about زِنَّ he says وَلَا تَقْرُوا وَزِنَّا Allah talks about مُردَة for example وَلَا تَقْرُوا وَنَّفْسَدْ لَتِي خَلُرَمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقَ Allah has clear I am telling you don't do this don't do this don't go near this even it's so clear it's so salih why didn't you do that with music knowing that it was going to be as big a problem as it is in the 21st century حبيبي when you say it's not clear it's clear to every sincere genuine Muslim there's no fit in Nahi would you agree with that for bidding verb there is there is which one there are many I ask that الله تبارك وتعالى prohibit in it which one in that form والذين لا يشهدون الزورة والذين the ones لا يشهدون they do not participate in الزورة in زور محمد بن الحنفي مهجاهي بن جبن and other مفصيرين they said الزورة هي ميز ميزك وعين مين حبيبي is وصول وستفزي من استطعت منهم بصوتك وعجلي بعليهم بخيلك ورجليك وشاركهم في الأموال والأولاد وعيدهم وما يعيدهم الشيطان إلا غورورة وستفزي من استطعت منهم بصوتك يا وصول مفصيرين شيطان وصول وصول هي نعم مجاهد بن جبن who is تفسير we like إذا جاءك تفسير مجاهد وفحسبك بي ابن جرير طابر he brought it ابن عيب بن زينيس حلية عيب بن جوز بن زينيس تلبيس ويبليس قرطو يبن زينيس تفسير all of them that the word assault here means that مجاهد says يعني he means music so it's clear to anybody who's منصف who's sincere who's genuine who now the truth has reached him and when he sees those evidences he's not going to argue back he's going to be pleased with it he's going to be Arab I don't need 10 I don't need five evidences from the Quran for me to stay away from something but one is enough for me but it's always like the company interpreters this the company said this the company is these were the great noble men don't get me wrong but they weren't my profit but Shahid with their eyewitnesses if they happen a car accident happen in front of us we would be eyewitnesses we saw it that the police would take our encounter of the situation somebody who came 500 years later of five years five days late five hours later had that no one would take the file a case from him you just seem so contradictory because on this podcast many times before you said the speech of a scholar is not a proof rather it requires proof and you say this over and over again the speech of an alem it doesn't matter who he is it doesn't like are we to mudhub as well and we talked about the importance of the social wahiain and not to take in the opinion of any man I'm not saying they are proof in and within themselves I am not no do I claim that I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm not saying is that I'm not what I'm saying is that they say statements and no one's rejecting their statements when they commented on these verses I'm saying to anyone who listens to take this point on board when the مجاهد said والذين لا يشهدون الزورة الزور here means يعني الغينا and it's written in the books of تفسير دورة المنفور من الصيوطة جلالدين الصيوطة brings it قرطوبي brings it ابن كثير brings it من أبيحاتب brings it ابن كثير brings it and my question here is that these people when they said these statements I mean these imams when they said these statements why were there no one rejecting and say look these ayahs don't mean this right now I mean went through اجمع سكوتي as well earlier on in this section I mean went through اجمع سكوتي now Okay, I want to move on now some of the arguments that the people bring for the permissibility of music they actually say that they were a حديث that clearly allow music the first of them is نريت باعشة and we mentioned this earlier about the two slavegoes who were singing about besides the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم besides Aisha رضي الله عنها and the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was also there and Abu Bakr came and spoke harshly saying musical instruments of Shaytan near the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and the Prophet actually turned his face to it and said leave them leave them alone let them continue isn't this a proof that singing and musical instruments as Abu Bakr put it are permissible Okay, the first word that was used if we see that Yeah, yeah, of course you can have a look So Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه ودليه سيه مزمار الشيطان عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم مزمار So Aisha رضي الله عنها she mentioned she mentioned she said دخل على رسول الله عليه وسلم the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم she said Aisha رضي الله عنها she said قال دخل علي رسول الله the Prophet entered upon me قال it she said قال دخل علي رسول الله the Prophet entered upon me وعند إجارية تاني there were two slavegoes Okay تغنياني they were both singing Okay So that's the first point, right? بغينا إبعاثة they were singing the songs of Bo'ath we're going to come to what that means then we've got Abu Bakr seeing this happened the Prophet didn't say anything he was there صلى الله عليه وسلم فضجع على الفراشي وحول وشهو the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he was sitting on his I mean lying down on his bed and he turned his face ودخل أبو بكر أبو بكر entered فانتهراني he wound me against it he prohibited me from it and look what he said وقال مزمار والشيطاني عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم the first point I want to go through is that the word مزمار that أبو بكر he used doesn't always mean music instruments I think the English translation here should be looked into the word مزمار can be the voice as I mentioned before لقد تأتيت مزمار من مزاميري علي داود حدي صحيين that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم ساته أبو موسى الأشعالي you have been given مزمار من مزاميري علي داود and here مزمار here means حسن الصوت you've got very beautiful voice and we know that because he's reciting قلقان at the time of course he's not singing not only that just imams ناوي رحم الله تعالى when he came to مزمار من مزمار من مزاميري علي داود he said المراد من المزمار هنا صوت الحسن ناوي says this رحم الله you can look and inshallah حسنه وسلم عراقي طرح التثريب he says the same thing he says والمراد من المزمار here he says but we still have a situation where we're not going to come to it حافظ بحدر he says والمراد من المزماري الصوت الحسن so that's important that we understand it also the hadith itself it mentions وعيشه said at the beginning عيشه الله تعالى عانى she said تغانياني they were singing so now I've clarified to you that what مزمار here is not a musical instrument okay fine تغانياني means they were singing they were singing so now we have to go back to what were they saying because I remember I categorized the singing for you into two this one falls under the first category of singing okay but and you مستدل المان in the 21st century knows that يَعَبُوا بَقْرَسْتَدِقْ the one the most maybe he didn't know the hukum and he didn't he didn't know the hukum but you do no but I'm saying to you he didn't know he didn't know the hukum of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم yet the ruling hasn't come that it's مباح the ruling hasn't come yet maybe it wasn't the Prophet didn't prohibit it yet the ayats didn't come down regarding music or in singing I mean you know alcohol was drunk in the beginning of Islam alcohol was drunk by the companions why did he say موسكو or مزمار الشيطبان if the ruling hadn't come of course the ruling came he okay if the ruling came the ruling I'm referring to is that the type that's permissible he didn't know that when did that ruling come like I don't understand look at the hadith itself عبوبك ردي الله first of all this hadith also scholars use it against you which is the Prophet did not say to عبوبك ردي الله who gave you the right to call it if we say music and instrument him by saying leave them alone is just show it's permissible no no the Prophet ﷺ told them leave them alone he didn't have to no no look he used the word here he used if you say the مزمار here means musical instrument the Prophet ﷺ said to him عبوبك ردي الله a satanic musical instrument okay why did the Prophet ﷺ why did you refer to because you're assuming that at the time the Prophet ﷺ believed that musical instruments if you take that presumption up which is what the other side you're presuming based on that like you're saying why didn't he say these are not musical instruments عبوبك ردي الله the Sahaba as the Prophet ﷺ would correct him in the statements they say do you agree with me on that yeah I agree with you on that the action forget it because the action the Prophet ﷺ was stopping him from is the fact that he's stopping his daughter from it okay because عيش ردي الله when she said فانتهاراني he stopped me so I agree with you that he's correct them on the wording it's no problem I don't see I don't understand how that's using you're using that as a proof the fact that he called it this شيطان he called the musical instrument شيطان that means that the musical instrument شيطان that's not a good thing the Prophet ﷺ didn't correct them and say no no no music is fine why you calling it شيطان I don't know things weak but I say just leave them let them carry on it's clear that it's not no I'm saying there's two things that happened here there's two things that happened أبو بكر is stopping his daughter he was told off for that yeah and the usage of the word I mean زمار الشيطان عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم calling him زمار الشيطان that wasn't corrected from the Prophet that's something okay you should look into the other the next point I want to go into is that this first of all he falls under the غينا المباحة that we were talking about because أحمد محمد a great Imam أحمد جعفر محمد and he said I said to أبي عبد الله يعني أحمد محمد I said to him أنا عائشة جواني يغنينا أيش هذا الغينا I mean what is this singing that they were singing what is it he said غينا أراكبي أتينكم أتينكم they were just singing no musical instrument was used خلال نريت ده in his كتابة الأمر بالمعروف أنا عالي المكر ابن الجوزي narrated that in his تلبيس إبليس ابن أثير who's he's an Imam in the Arabic language and what he does is that he takes the words that are strange the words that need clarification it's called أن نهاية في غريب الحديث he takes that word and what does he do he takes the word and he defines it he explains it to you if it's in a hadith he will mention it expand on it it's a very good book that Imam الجوزي طبعا طبعا of it with تحقيقه في شغالي حسن حلبي ابن أثير and he said in نهاية he said when he came to the hadith he said تول شداني الأشعارة they were only saying poetry اللي تقيلت يوم أبوعاثن that was said of the day of Bua'ata that's what he said وعايشة at the ending of the hadith if you look at it she mentions لي ستها مغنيتيني they were not singers she affirmed the singing and negated another singing the singing that was affirmed here was what I mean the singing that was affirmed is that she was the first type of singing which is the one we said is permissible and the second one that she's prohibiting is that they were not known singers ابن حجر ونه كانت أحدين بخاري he says explaining this issue he said الغينا يطلاقوا على رفع الصوت they raise their voices and he mentioned وعالة ترنومي وعالة الحداية ولا يسمى فعيله مغنيا the person who is doing that is not called a singer وإنما يسمى بذلك من يشدب تمطيط وتكسين وتهييج وتشويخ فيما فيه تعريض الفواحش واتسره قاضي الغيارت said the same thing but important in his debaage سيوتي mentions it as he is in the debaage of سيوتي بروط the statement بالقاضي الغياضة اللي يحسبي اوصى الصيوتي says انه زهر الروبة مناوي وانحاشية المجتبة ابن عبد البر عبد البر يسكلام وهذا الباب من الغينا الذي أجازه العلمة he says ووردت الآتار عن عن السلف بإجازته وهو يسمى غينا الراك رقبان لسوه أحمد سد وغينا النصب والعوداء هذه الأوجوه من الغينا إلى خلاف فيديو وازيابينا لا يوجد تسكولين من المخصوصين في هذه الأرقام حسنا هناك another حديث that that the people tend to bring which is there narrated by ابن عمر رضي الله عنهما who said that he had a pipe it's translated you can have a look at Arabic a pipe and he put his fingers in his ears who did that ابن عمر رضي الله تعالى عنهما and he was with نافع and he said that he went away from he went away from the road and he asked نافع رضي الله عنهما are you listening to anything are you still hearing anything he said no he said he then took the fingers out and obviously at the time there was some kind of singing or music or whatever you want to call it singing was happening and he said I was with the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and he heard like this and he did like this now the question here is that if the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was with ابن عمر رضي الله عنهما and they were singing or music going on and the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم put his fingers in his ears he didn't want to hear it but he never told ابن عمر to do the same how would the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم allow ابن عمر to do something خرام when his job is to correct the companions and to remove them from خرام this is a very good point ما شاء الله but these points you know it's who's repeated الله that's the thing these people if he gets responded to they can bring it again if he gets responded to they bring it again so I hope إن شاء الله تعالى the answer that's given here really sinks in for people there's a difference between سميع ونستمع سميع means you heard ونستمع لا أحد يساعد ever for hearing something يساعد for listening to something حسنًا يبنو تيميه point to this out عبد العبن عمر did the best of what should be done the best of what was done is that if you hear it حتى بطيفه but we don't say to a person who's on a car and music is playing but he doesn't listen to it he gets displayed he can hear it but he's not listening to it he's not sinner so you go into the supermarket that's just playing music in the background and you're not intentionally listening to it it's just there it's not a sin no there's a Fatua legend in my past Fatua ابنو تيميه before that said this so you don't okay so this issue is hearing it so you have to prove to me that Nafer was listening to the music he just put his finger in and then after he asked him is he on Nafer said let me hear it now yeah, it's gone now do you see my point yeah so it's same with the Prophet عليه الصلاة والسلام his Sahabas were not listening to the music they could hear it if they were asked it's like can you hear that music and you're like yeah, yeah, I can hear it because I've now told you but all that time it was on I didn't even notice it you didn't notice it but when I ask you you go and you listen yeah, it's on where are you so this hadith is not a proof for someone to listen to music okay the most that it could be said is that someone is in a place where music is playing and he's not listening to the music he's walking by somewhere and if some two people are insulting each other do you have to put my finger in my someone's used two people are using the F word and this and that they arguing with each other do I have to put my finger in my my fingers in my ear it's best to avoid anything going into your heart it's from موارع it's from موارع and تقوى but it doesn't mean you have to do that say if you're walking every time you hear music you don't put your finger you don't have to it's not a must because you're not listening if you're listening, yes there's probably a proof that on the other side on your side that why the Prophet doesn't even do this in the first place if the music was completely fine صحيح صلى الله عليه وسلم okay fine the next one and I think this is the the final one is the حديث of بريده where the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم came back from an expedition and a slave girl said to him Oh messenger of Allah I took an oath that if Allah returned you safely I would beat the duff for you and sing and the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم said if you have taken an oath then beat it and if you have not then do not again we mentioned this is the type the death is permissible for the women for number one it's something that's legislated and you've proven that and also قدوم somebody coming we mentioned it from them which is and he someone can sing for someone who's coming and this is this is the first first type of singing that we already we mentioned okay I don't think there's anything else that I have on my sheet to bring I think the only other one is you've already mentioned that the word it does not necessarily mean musical instruments because there's another حديث where you've mentioned it a couple of times already when the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was listening to Abu Musa was like the Quran and he said this man has been the the mizmar of the the family of Ali Dawood statistically and that obviously doesn't say that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was glorifying music like some people claim rather the mizmar just means the the beautiful voice yeah and أخي to be honest 30 عالم 30 سقولز من أئمة الإسلام يترانزمتنا إجماع عن هذه الأشياء I just I feel like it's through that music is prohibited أمرة من عبد العزيز أرمام الأوزاعي أبنو جرير الطبري أرمام الأجر إجماع these people are transmitted إجماع أبوطيب الطبري البغوي ابنو قودامة ابنو الصلاح ابنو عباس القرطبي النووي ابنو تيميا ابنو القيم ابنو رجب ابنو حجر الهيتمي all these great scholars they're not saying it's it's they're saying إجماع I have to understand this is not difference of opinion these issues the second type that we mentioned from singing and the musical instrument are unanimously agreed upon like in the women in situations it's permissible for them women are allowed to have music يعني they're allowed to sing and they you know they're allowed to use the deaf specifically nothing else was mentioned for them the deaf they're allowed to use it like in men are not allowed to men are never allowed to use the deaf in no situation is a man allowed and that man مخنط ابنو تيميا رحم الله يسأل أما غي أما غينا والرجالي للرجالي فلم يبلغنا أنه كان في أحد الصحابة يبقى غينا والنسائل والنسائي فلورسي أسأولا we know he said we don't know men doing يعني they're deaf for men و لذلك this is what the الرجل المغني the man who sings is a مخنط it's like a transgender they say I'm for that transgender like these kind of terms ابنو تيميا he says in his 22nd volume in his مجموعة الفتاة page 154 he says و لما كان الغيناه مقدمة ذلك و كان من عمل النسائي for the women to sing and to use the deaf كانوا يسمون الرجل المغنينة المخنطين the men who did that were referred to as what مخنط and today we look up to those people and we say سبحان الله he's a rapper he's a singer and this guy is good and we give them so much attention ابرعاب دين he said اعلم ان التغني للهوي او لجمع الرجال والنساء حرام بلا خلاف ابرعاب دين انه سحيا he mentioned that او بكر من العربي انه عارضة الأحوذي he says فإن كانت حورة فلا يستمعوا إليها لأن الأمت ليس وجهها عورة ولا صوتها بخلاف الحورتي again even the women or a free women could not do it in front of a man لكن a woman who is what is a slave which is the هدي تجاريتين they said this because they're not عورة their voices are not عورة so the scholars they gave an exception to that now okay so you've mentioned just now that there are 30 scholars that transmitted اجمع اجمع is not like you said just my opinion is this or this is خرام it's actually consensus which is a proof in the religion as we've already gone through in this podcast and other podcasts as well the question is though however a lot of people still claim that this is the strongest opinion might be that it's خرام but there is still a valid difference of opinion and even across my research that I was doing for this podcast I came across one one كتاب in particular اكتاب امام شوكاني نيلو العطار where he listed many people who he claimed or many علمان many scholars who he claimed that they saw it to be permissible they saw music to be permissible what's your response to this kind of claim actually this is it's a it's a mistaken belief for like I'm talking about اجمع this اجمع I mentioned of these great scholars اجمع sorry 23 of them it's actually اجمع قوليون they clearly and categorically said اجمع and the other remaining ones are يعني you can understand it from their statements and the سياق and the context like for example امام عمال عبد العزيز عمال عبد العزيز died 100 and what one it's not issued like some people make it look like oh this is you guys are just were herbies and you guys are just you know extremists and you love to push the hardest hardest view عمال عمال عبد العزيز يعني they say and he was one of the most righteous people تاريخ in Islam if you read it يعني امام عاديل عاديل حقاً he mentioned it and he died 100 and what 101 هجريان we have the likes of امامو ماريك we died 179 هجريا we have امامو شفع we died 204 هجريان يعني these are big امام we have the likes of احمد من حمبل رحمة الله تعالى who clearly and categorically has been narrated from him that he said that it's حرام and then اماما حمد رحمة الله he passed away when the year was 204 هجريان we have زكريا بريحة الساجي we died 307 we have الامام الاجوري we died 360 هجريان we have ابو ليت نصر ابنو محمد السمر قاندي الحنف we died 307 75 هجريان we have ابو عبد الله ابنو بطة العكبر we died 387 هجريان we have القادي ابو طيبة الطبري we died 450 هجريان القادي ويعال الفراء ودادي فوهنجريان ففتي 80 هجريان ويعال القادي ابو بكر الشامي والشافعي ودادي فوهنجريان 88 هجريان we have ابو بكر ترتوشي ودادي 520 هجريان ويعال ابو حسين ابنو القادي وعال الفراء الحنبري we died the 526 هجريان ويعال ابنو صلاح ودادي 643 هجريان وعال ابو محمد الدشتي الحنف ودادي 660 هجريان وعال ويبرو تيمي ودادي 700 وعال 28 هجريان we have الإمام ابنو القيب the student في ابنو تيمي ودادي 721 هجريان we have محمد ابنو محمد المنبجي الحنبري ودادي 700 and 85 هجريان we have ابو ابو حانو الدين ابو رهيم ابنو عمر البقاع ودادي 885 نامي زي ابو محاسين هيبط الله ابنو نصر الحظاني والحمبري we have أصب رهان ويديني بنعبد العبدالحق الحرفي and other than them all of those great scholars are mentioning every single one of them have transmitted إجماعين إشو they didn't just say it's not allowed يعني إجماع I don't know if everyone wants to hear their goal and their statements لكن this مسألة truly and to be honest some scholars yes like ابنو حزي من الشوكاني a great scholars of Islam يعني they've been they have fallen into a mistake and an error in this matter you know maybe they have seen it in a particular way لكن for us to come after yeah and to see these evidence has been established and mentioned and these proofs being quoted and referenced يعني and fast to say ابنو حزين said it يعني you you don't have a you don't have a way out حزين probably has a يعني حجة for himself يوم القيامة because the evidence didn't reach him and he was sincere and he's great we hope the best for this great scholars and we think good of them لكن what's your excuse أمام الله تعالى يوم القيامة يغرسي ابنو حزين said when somebody already told you Allah said I see yeah it's a very strong point so to summarize the discussion to simplify it to many people who may be watching at home Insha'Allah and correct me if I'm wrong because I'm going to try and do this of memory but essentially you started by dividing the issue of music and singing into three categories one is a permissible type which is basically naturally raising your voice it might have a very very slight melody you're tuned to it but it's nothing that's unnatural and these are used this kind of singing was used at the time of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم to boost morale and things like that the second type is the impermissible type which is where you go unnaturally trying to make a tone to your voice and put a melody on it and that even this type it's only permissible for women and even then it's only permissible for women in specific situations like weddings and Eid and things like that and then we have the third type which is completely impermissible which is when people use either the first or the second type but the permissible the impermissible when they use this kind of singing and music in an attempt to get closer to Allah and it's completely خرام impermissible and then to prove that this is a different categories of music and that is خرام in the religion of Islam you bought many different ayat from the Quran and you haven't bought your understanding of these ayats you haven't just quoted for the people and just said I believe this means this you've actually quoted companions to be in these people who are the closest to the revelation and many of them as well not just one many of them and we actually discussed an issue of إجماع سقوتي which is basically when a companion says that this refers to music and nobody else says otherwise and this happens many companions across many different generations it becomes إجماع which is a proof in our religion just like the Quran and the Sunnah of proof furthermore you mentioned حديث سخيل بخاري which clearly and categorically states and we went through in great detail the Senate to prove that it's authentic and secondly the Metin which is the actual text itself and we proved that this clearly and directly says that music just like alcohol silk for men and Zina is not permissible and the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم actually rebuked and he actually spoke harshly against the people who made it خلال just like somebody maybe watching this and thinking that music is خلال and then finally you bought the إجماع out of many many many many different scholars and again just one of them is a proof in our religion but the fact that are so many of them across so many generations and you've responded also to some of the questions bought forward from the other side and you've dismissed them is that a fair summary that's a fair summary and I also just want إزاك الله خيانا you did a good job الله I also want to mention people lot to يعني read يعني these شبوهات that are brought by people who are not going to give you the answers don't and not every خلاف that comes is given wait if ريد الله يبنو الحسن العنبري دايدية one hundred sixty اي تجرية عن ابراهيم ابنو ساعد القرش ودايدية one hundred اي تجرية عن ابنو حزمن الظاهر ودايدية four hundred fifty سكس تجرية عن أبو حمد الغزال ودايدية five hundred five اي تجرية المحمد من طاهر القيصراني الصوفي ودايدية five hundred seven اي تجرية ذاي خلاف with it the scholars they didn't give a consideration القاديا الطيب الطبري القاديا الطبري انس كتاب الرد على من يحب يحب السبع he says اجمع علماء الامصار على كراه تلغينا والمن اعي منه to prohibit it وانما فارق الجماعة راجلاني two men when I guess الجماعة ابراهيم ابنو ساعد ان العبيض الله بعد ذلك he didn't give it he said اجمع and then he went he mentioned those two so not every خلاف or every person who comes and says things and we say اه there's a difference of opinion there are some scholars on this side and there are some scholars on this side when we look at them وحققين من هل العلم those scholars I mentioned all the 2030 scholars that I have they didn't give weight to the خلاف ابمر حزمن or the خلاف of ابو حامد الغزالي or anyone they didn't they just pushed it to the side and just to clarify because I've got a couple of notes here that when we first talked about the issue of singing and you to categorize it in ألغينا and you categorize it in three parts I did say we're not even talking about musical instruments we're just talking about singing throw on musical instruments I know it's come up many times in our discussion musical instruments takes the same ruling yeah it takes the same it's definitely and the same with because obviously you said at the time in the introduction singing as in the act of singing what about listening to someone singing it takes the same we've mentioned it again again we've mentioned it many many times throughout this podcast definitely but I just want to make that absolutely clear also there's a lie that some people put out there about إمام الشافع he said شافع he permitted music and you know the call of إشوف أهل المدين and so on yeah القاضي أبو بكر الشامي الشافعي he did 280 هجري and he said وما نقل عن الكردي عن السلمي أن شافعي نقل الإباحة يعني he permitted music عن أهل المدينة from the people of مدينة فهو كذب it's a lie لأن الكردي وشيخه نسبة إلى الكذب فهذا اسمعنا علي الكردي إذا لا إلا إذا لات وكذلك ابن الطاهر القيصة باني من أن شافعي مر بدار قوم لأن الإمام شافعي وانا بحاسب group of people وجارية تغنيه من نزد جارية singing for them من شافعي رحم الله على listen to it وهكذا إيبا أبو بكر الحسن إذا أُوطر والدك كتاب لأن إن شالح أفضل الكتاب متاب يشجع كفاية الأخيار إيب إضبانك تاتي إذا هذا ابن الطاهر خبيث دجال صنف في هذا الشان كتاب نجتمل على خبائتي من الكدب حتى عزا ما هو مجمع على تحريم إلا إمة الودى منهم الشيخ أبو سحاقش يرازي والشافعي وغيرهما وتجاء سر حتى كدب على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لن تقفل إذا إذا كنت أردت أن أعرف هذه الأشياء أحد من الأشياء كذلك مدارج الساريكين أسرع إغاطة للهفان في مصايد الشيطاني بنو قيم يتحدث بك جميل في نزاد المعاتي يتحدث بك حقًا ولكن مستقبل ما لم أريد ان يفتحه إلى أن أرد أ شخص Aside اريد المிيز في أسرع الأسس فجميعيenos وحصنا فحصنا لذا Lie Retulsion في سلام؟ ساء ثقاء كمهering أخرت وكان حديث وسحب كما girlfriends هو س懂 وذي أصراس لعنة ماذا about giving Da'awah through poetry so we're talking about the permissible side and I know we covered this before but just to reiterate we're talking about the permissible side so it's not like you know the normal just raising your voice spoken word for example a lot of people that spoke in word first of all let's remove Da'awah from it are you allowed to do spoken word poetry spoken word poetry like break it down for for me and the listeners as well like someone is just standing on a stage and they're just reciting a poem that they've written and the poem rhymes but there's no melody you just yeah I don't see any problem okay and so listen to that is okay but what about someone with the intention like many people do giving Da'awah through these poems now you're doing it something to get closer to our heart so that making that your way of Da'awah whenever you want to give Da'awah through poetry that's not something a person should make their show to show every time your poetry is poetry coming out through poetry and that's your way of Da'awah it's best to avoid it and sometimes the Dean was defended by poetry we can't deny that يعني the Prophet said also also يعني go with your poetry and speak وروح القدس معك so the Dean can be defended and we memorize some books in poetry form يعني نظم we read them and stuff like that but science of the religion is protected through these poetic forms but like in all the time the person just Da'awah is always like that it's don't make it your but if you do it no problem here and there someone listen to acapella like you have a song for example but you take the music out and it's just a rapper for example and it's almost like he's talking but it's acapella is that permissible to listen to but how did that person get that tune you had to have listened to the music I'm sure on YouTube people upload acapella tracks so they've actually done the editing where they strip the music and they just have the voice of the artist the rapper I don't know the acapella properly okay fine what if the content of the permissible type of music the one where it's just raising a voice a permissible type of singing but the content is anti-islamic is talking about alcohol and drugs is that permissible لا شكرا سحران مجمعون على تحريمي okay the last one is reciting Quran in a melodious tone like you hear about the maqamat a different like you know these yeah great scholars of islam prohibited it and spoke about it the great it goes too much and it goes into the second yeah yeah there's there's reciters who are musical when you hear the recitation of the Quran is this Quran as the one I had he was reading the Quran it sounds like a song basically okay last thing then a summary if you if you want to just sum up the discussion today and if you could say like including some of your just advice for someone who's listening to music who's struggling to get off music for example and they really want to they want to leave music after listening to this podcast what kind of advice would you give this person والله إذا تبخل أمانتنا بأمن الجوزر رحم الله وليسالين يستلبيس إبليس ينبغي للعاك الأيان صحيح نفسه وإخوانه ويحضر تلبيس إبليس في جراء هذا الغينا المحرن مجرى الأقساب المتقدمة التي يطلق عليه اسب الغينا فلا يحمل كل المحملا واحدا ويقولها قد أباحه فلان وكريها وفلان والله this is the way the shaitan gets to a person I mean from the deceptions of shaitan I found myself personally that many people who've been struggling with sins who've been falling to zina who they is through music music, killing, zina all of it it makes it easy specifically the lyrics they use it makes it people also this concept of depression and anxieties this is it gives you it a lot of people they connect themselves to it I know people who told me that I listen to when I'm sad this music and when I'm happy I listen to this music and when I'm reading how I'm walking I listen to this music and when I do this and then what happens to them is when they strip themselves from the music they're dark they're feeling hurt and heartbroken it's kind of like a drug and you have withdrawal symptoms when you get off a drug you can't function you can't function also the many and it comes through lyrics women talking about men men talking about women all of this makes somebody want to go come to zina I want to have you know it's actually intercourse with someone there is not halal for them because it becomes normal like you had this lyrics it was said and you had this lyrics it was said and it becomes normal to you and you lose one of the greatest qualities a person should have which is shyness and the prophet he told us in the hadith بشاء الله he deserves to be shy this is actually a good answer to a lot of people who are sorry to interject a lot of people ask that what is the heart like murdering someone you're taking someone's life there's a clear harm there is it not even you're probably give birth to a child to in a family where the dad's going to run away for example there's a clear harm there music has no harm you're just in your own house you're not harming the society you're not harming the people but as you mentioned here there are many many reasons and many harms that occur what it needs to there's a good answer for that that should happen yeah yeah it does the hadith I was mentioning which is that the prophet said صلى الله عليه وسلم استحياء بن الله حق الحياة بشاء الله the way he deserves to be shy of من الصحابة يقول يا رسول الله إينا نستحياء من الله والحمد لله شاء الله the way he deserves لأن the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم من استحياء بن الله حق الحياة the way he deserves to be shy of فليحفظ الرأس له ينفتحه وكل شيء فيه وكل شيء فيه والبطنة والاستمك وما حواء وكل شيء فيه لا تأكل ما هو حرام so what's on your head that you need to protect your eyes your ears your mouth all of these you need to protect it and the stomach meaning don't eat one then the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he said والبطنة والبطنة وما حواء وليذكر الموت والبلا remember death on the day so why do you want to listen to music when you have the Quran والله if the Quran if you لو أنزلنا هذا القرآن على جبل الله رأيت وخاش عم متصدع من خشة الله وتلك الأمثال ونضريبها للناس العالم يتفكرون the Quran you have the book of Allah right in front of you this Quran came down on the mountain in Krumbo not only that Allahumma you have beautiful reciters who touch your heart penetrate your heart the recitation of the Quran when you listen to it and anyone who has the Quran and has محمود خليل الحصري and من شاوي والله I don't يعني سبحان الله حقيقتا محمود خليل الحصري and من شاوي and these great imams of the Quran when you have them why would you ever want to listen to it or somebody else or why would you want to listen to music لا شك also I know a lot of brothers who are very good brothers very good shy good to their parents they listen to this stuff they lost everything they lost their wives they lost their children they lost they lost their you know the respect they had for their parents and the good kids say well I never saw in my heart life the course of my life that I've lived I have not seen and I'm generally like this blank statements like this I haven't seen anything that can destroy a person the way that our music can the reason is the reason is because everything comes from it زينا comes from it ليوات comes from it الكل comes from it مدرن comes from it bad friends come from it and it's it's the source of all evil especially at our time I always used to ask back in the days always used to ask people I used to say to them whenever they come and they complain to me about I'm trying to do you listen to music that was one of my first questions I had on my discussion with them if he says yes I'll say it first يعني you pray you fast you prepare good to be your parents everything these things سبحان الله you know these headphones that they put in and they listen to and they it's made people monsters young youths that you're seeing you're in a civilized world يعني the in Europe يعني some of them tell me for 2-3 days I haven't eaten man I'm hungry I haven't eaten for 2-3 days I'm starving what you look at him يعني you know he's not clean his nails are dirty his clothings يعني the situation is sad and a lot of it because we look at it be honest a lot of these brothers his names are عبد الله and Ahmed and Khalid and Zainab and Amina and Fatima they grew up in a house where their mom قرآن was played when they they were going to Duxy on Saturday Sunday Quran classes on Saturday Sunday and a good parents a good household where did they learn about I'm looking after my hands my turf يعني my postcode يعني what postcode are you talking about you're from Somalia African skin it's it's it's what postcode do you know it's just this is owned by the queen it's owned by either the conservative party or the lethal party this is not your postcode and then when he moves from that postcode he moves to another he's fighting for the other postcode and that other ends and it comes from the gang to rap in the hip hop and the things like that where did he got that from another guy in America يعني who's not a Muslim who's يعني fell off in life who يعني even the non-Muslim see him to be the lowest of the lowest these rappers are the lowest of the lowest يعني and non-Muslims are looking at them like but many Muslims actually look up to them and almost idolize them to a certain extent يعني his name is Ahmed يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني يعني لا you don't you're backwards on that you follow me in these things also the people who've given you these that music is allowed you can sing and do remember they're not going to come with you're going to be alone you're going to be questioned by yourself and these people give this to the people I asked them one question when you came out and you gave this fatwa to the people and you say music is a difference of opinion one question I have I don't want to ask you any other question just one question did you feel that the umma were so backwards for not listening to music that you felt that it was a necessary thing for you to come forward and say to them music this is an opinion and listen to it there's a difference of opinion and listen to it that's the first question I ask and the last I ask if you don't if that's not the case there's many other things you could have told the Muslims to do I conclude there I look forward to God willing to see you on the hot seat once again سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك أشهد ولا إله إلا أنت أستغفرك وأتوب إليك