 Our community members and our parents and our elders, you know, basically came forth and said, there's, we have to change things. We need to change things for our students. We can't continue delivering a curriculum that is not reflective of them or their family or their community. For us, we just, we really want our children to be successful. We always tell them that they can be whatever they want to be as long as they have goals in mind. However, we also think that it is integral that they remember where their roots are as well. If traditionally the role has been as gatekeepers to society as it exists with little pockets of, you know, different things going on at universities, it's time now in 2019 and forward to actually think about communities and how we can support community needs. And that's going to mean we need to change. We can't do things just as we've done them. And that's, change is always hard. So I've been really happy that there's been great support from the, from the dean from every level of the university so far in terms of getting the agreements in place and getting moving on this and already having to do some things a bit differently. But the proof is going to be in the program itself and whether the people involved in the program think that ultimately it's met their needs and the needs of the community. And if it's done that, we'll succeed. And if it hasn't done that, or to the extent that it it won't be perfect doing that, we'll have lots of room still to grow. But it's, it's pretty exciting to be working with that as the benchmark or the measure. In the end, does the community we're working with feel like the program's done what it needed to do for them, for their teachers, for their education personnel, and ultimately for the students that are coming through? That's a pretty, pretty exciting way to measure things that we're not used to doing that much in universities. It's not like a traditional master of education program where it's, you know, coursework, coursework, you know, a lot of our learning, we need to experience that learning ourselves in order for us to understand as educators and teachers of Indigenous kids and how to transfer that. So it's not like at the end of the program we're going to know all there is to do with, to do with land and all the activities that the Anishinaabe do with land, but we're going to understand how important that land is and how do we bridge it to the modern classroom. We have a structure for the program, but I work by what I call Kenomadawad, they are learning with each other while they are doing. So even though we have a structure and a goal for the program, it's really developing as we're going through it. So I think somebody like Paul would have, as an administrator in the master's program, he would have a conceptual idea of what it takes to have a master's degree. But for me, the way I look at this program is that we're developing it as we're going through it. So even though we have a combination of integrating land-based learning, and for me, when I talk about land, I use the Anishinaabe term. It means more than just land, it's not just the land we walk on, it's actually, it includes Mother Earth. So it's the air, the water, the spirit of everything. So when I look at this program, what I'm trying to do is integrate those things into an academic environment. We've done that by doing land activities within the programs themselves, within the courses, and we've also included activities in specific courses. So we've done it in a combination of things and we've negotiated that with Pichitong Anishinaabe, our partner. And then as we're going through it, as the academic representatives, our role is to kind of connect the theory to some of the practical things. So that's kind of in a nutshell what the description of the program is. It's really about trying to give value to indigenous forms of learning within a very formal institution like a university. So even when I speak about it with upper level managers like the president or vice provosts, what I try to articulate to them is that we're learning as we're doing and by doing it this way, we're going to learn a lot about how we can develop these programs in collaboration and also make sure they're meeting the needs of the community and our needs but we're also validating indigenous knowledges. So to me that's really the critical piece of the whole program. I think that indigenous education has some features that are different than education from a western understanding and that is that it is not confined to a classroom. Not to say that you can't have a classroom but that the land and everything around us are also teachers and the other way that it's different is that in the university we've got professors who are experts whereas we look to people who have lived experience, we look to the elders, we look to knowledge keepers. They are our teachers who can help guide us along the way as well as our peers and even our children. You credited for the knowledge that we present on the land and that we already have. So even just having this being a credited course, it's just an amazing experience.