 Good episode, a really informative episode for you. You asked Parks and Recs. I've seen a few of them episodes. What was his name on the radio? That shit hella old. Like, Perd Happily. What's happening with Perd? This is a leftist, Marxist, Londonist podcast. We were going to define. Sponsored by the DSA. With the red roses and Bernard Sanders and a political revolution. Black Lives Matter co-exist. Refugees, welcome. Hell black, episode 71. We back on that bullshit. And we here fucking with it. Rocking, quarantine, you know. Fuck Corona nigga, fuck the USA nigga, fuck Trump nigga. Fuck all them crackers who was protesting with guns and shit saying we need to go back to our jobs and shit and saying fucking quarantine is communism. Fuck all you. Social distancing is communism. Bro, what? Yes, sir. That's how you know these white people really just, they don't know fucking shit, bro. I mean, we were talking about it earlier. I wish. You got Trump over here saying liberate Virginia, liberate Michigan. Nigga, what? All the things that give folks to go up in arms is not being able to go back to work and be exploited. They took our jobs. What kind of cognitive dissonance does one have to possess to go up in arms, storm the state capital and demand that they be required, that they be allowed to go back to work? They're trying to fire their governors, fire their politicians because they're Republican politicians, even at that, they're trying to keep them quote unquote safe from COVID-19. And these fuckers is literally protesting. Capitalism has done a number on folks' psyches. That's just really how you know how this colonial propaganda is so fucking strong. And this buy-in to whiteness, because that's what it really is, this is buy-in to whiteness. Out of all the things you could demand, you want to demand your right to go back to work and be exploited. And to get sick. And I'm just rereading George Jackson and I was really just talking about these working. A lot of them are actually like working class white people. But they're indoctrinated into this fucking colonial fucking propaganda, this fucking pig fascist propaganda. Fighting for your right to live. Check to check. Not let me fight and go back for better service, better working conditions, health care, higher wages. Let me go back to my old life. And a lot of this white working class, people are far right. So niggas always talk about the working class and always like, oh, the white working class. One conversation niggas ain't having about the working class is, nigga, a lot of this white working class is some far right imperialist fucking pigs, bro. Period. And we seeing this shit happening right now, the motherfuckers up with their guns and shit. Trying to go back to work. So when we say filming niggas got to have self-defense niggas, niggas have to have protection niggas. This is the shit, these motherfuckers will go up in arms for this shit. Imagine you feel me and niggas are actually doing some of that revolutionary shit, nigga. The fuck you think gon' happen, nigga? You ain't seen no police talking. Exactly. They always do. Whenever black folks start taking their lives into their own hands and not even in the sense of black folks start responding in violence, I mean, when black folks just try to make something for themselves, right? We talk about Tulsa, we talk about Black Wall Street. I'm not talking about when black folks are in themselves. I'm talking about when black folks just go out and try to live their life and adopt Tulsa. Pick up their bootstraps, you feel me? Even when black folks is practicing capitalism, nigga, they bomb us, nigga. They cause harm. So, you know, I mean, white folks show you when they want something done, what do they do? Get their AR-15s, pick up their pistol. When they want something done, when they trying to get a point across. Pick up their guns. You can get ready, brother, don't tread on me. They exercise their rights. They're second to man-man right. They're fourth to them by the United States Constitution. Come on. And what's wild though is, Trump is really just playing to that game. Cause, you know, Trump ain't as foolish as he comes off or as people try to make him say, like I think people think that he ain't, you know, I mean, he ain't intelligent, but you know, he's smarter than what people try to say he is. Like he's saying, oh, liberate Virginia. It's on the governors and shit. He's just trying to keep his base empowered in this election. So this is just colonial propaganda, again, coming from Trump. Even though I do think Trump really thinks like niggas should actually be in the house. I mean, he just said three weeks ago he was telling folks to stay in the house. Just that was just what his message was, stay safe, stay home. That was the message from everyone right now that liberate, and what does liberate mean? Go back to being a slave. That's what liberation means for folks. So he's really, imagine if we had them folks on our team, shit, man. I wish they was ready to die about some real shit. Go back to work. Go back to work. Keep being a white, exploited working class. I've never seen someone wanna fight in the need of their own oppression so badly. Fight for the fight and alignment with their own exploitation. I've never. And they out there with, they make America great again and shit on. So this is really just Trump trying to activate his base. At least folks know what makes America great. In election year. This is showing the fascist regime, literally in full effect, and seeing it's fascist supporters outside, in full effect. So yeah, but you know, we'll sidetrack from the episode that we're gonna talk about. I mean it's not, it's not a sidetrack. Everything about the, everything I felt of black is a critique of the white supremacist, capitalist patriarchal nation. That it's all interconnected in some way. The United States of America. It's all, we're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about patriarchy and white supremacy, just from perspective of a fast sex worker. So this shit is going, the smooth transition. It's going to work perfectly. I'm hella excited about this episode. Yeah, so what are we going to talk about, man? You're already hinted at it. I mean, so yeah, we're gonna talk about anti-fatness and horophobia and their direct connections to white supremacy and patriarchy. And I'm excited to have Raven, who was a fast sex worker from Chicago, come on here and drop some knowledge from niggas. Who? I mean we just been, what I've been thinking about a lot lately is theory and practice. That's a word, those are two words that have come up for me a lot in the past two weeks. And I'm thinking about how so many people are on here. And it also was a break from a conversation we had with Ty. When Ty was saying that, when we were talking about Marxism, socialism, communism, we were talking about all this shit, right? And he was saying that people like to make the argument for density as like if density makes it any less valuable. Like something that's too dense, right? Like too hard of a read. And then I'm also thinking about theory and practice. And so I think oftentimes people talk about a society, a socialist society, a communist society, a society where anti-blackness or white supremacy, capitalism and patriarchy no longer exists. But it's like niggas, what are you doing to understand these experiences of white supremacy, of patriarchy, of capitalism from other perspectives than yours, right? And that's why I'm like, when we had the black, what we try to do is bring on folks that are falling victim to this state that don't identify. Surviving in a state in which we are, and the way we don't see it, you feel me? So I think that's, even we're facilitating these conversations, but niggas is still learning in real time too. You feel me? So I think that's one shit we try to show it, have a black as a nigga. We learning in real time too. And we having these conversations that we had anywhere else. And you know why it's important? Because how can you talk about this a state, a world where white supremacy, capitalism and patriarchy no longer exists. And you don't even know what the other identities are. You don't know what fat sex workers need from a society like that, right? It's important why, as we talk about revolution and all this shit, we gotta start, like what are you doing on your day-to-day basis to understand what folks that don't identify as the same thing as you identify need in that society? Yeah, I mean because if we don't liberate our minds from these colonial propaganda, you feel me? And we have a revolution. We is just going to recreate some of those fucking colonial propaganda after if our minds aren't changed. You feel me? If we aren't constantly re-educating ourselves from this system. And oftentimes when we talk about anti-blackness, we think about police brutality. We think about racism. You feel me? But we don't think about anti-fateness. We don't think about horphobia. But what words do people always like to use? Solidarity. Nigga, how are you practicing solidarity in your day-to-day life with these people? How are you engaging with disabled folks? How are you engaging with fat folks? How are you engaging with sex workers? How are you engaging with black women? How are you doing that now, nigga? But you plan on just jumping to that shit? Doing this shit after a fucking revolution when you're supposed to change, like. No, because you ain't even built a habit to love and support them yet, nigga. That shit ain't about to just turn on. Just because we went to war with this fucking fascist empire means you're going to be all right, nigga. You feel me? So that's why it's important that, nigga. We start having these conversations right now so that we can build a very, you feel me, liberated world for all black people. So. Anti-fateness. We did a great episode with Deshaun. Episode 46 for niggas we don't remember. Yeah, tap back in with that. You feel me? My nigga Deshaun is up in Knowledge. Pre-reading or a pre-audio syllabus, you feel me? The fuck with tapping with that? Correct one for niggas. I'm saying former teacher, current teacher of this mother fucker. So anti-fateness, essentially, is the hatred of fat people. And then we think about the intersection of blackness. We think about how black people was killed by the police often. Oftentimes, it's black fat people being killed. Eric Garner was killed by the police. And they said he didn't die from being choked to death by the New York Police Department, New York Pig Department, but it was because he was obese. Or because he had asthma or something like that. So seeing that intersection of blackness and anti-fateness, and what we think about diet culture, which especially is coming up right now. Like, OK, you know, the corona weight, you know what people are saying now? Like, oh, don't eat too much. Don't snack too much. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot of hatred towards fat people and gaining weight in this time. Like, what are you talking about? You feel me? So just really understanding how anti-fateness operates in this world is super important if we're going to talk about being free. And a lot of this shit is, as Deshaun said in the episode, it's colonial, right? It's colonial thought that we're saying throughout our fucking mouths, nigga. Niggas don't be understanding just how deep colonialism runs, bro, in our everyday lives and the way that we view the world. They don't understand it, bro. Like, nigga, who do you think created body standards, nigga? White folks, the BMI metric. White folks, nigga, that. Created by a white person, four white people. That calls us obese because we don't fit the white, you feel me, aesthetic, right? The white, you know, especially like a lot of shit is built off of like white women's bodies, bro. Come on, come on. So if we're gonna talk about anti-blackness, we can't talk about anti-blackness, but I'll talk about anti-fatness, my nigga. We talk about systems of oppression, nigga. Anti-fatness is one of that systems of oppression, you know? And that shit goes all the way back to slavery, right? If we thinking about like the caricature of the Mammy, right, the Mammy was often seen as a desexualized caricature, right? But was oftentimes victims of sexual assault on a plantation, but because she was considered as fat, right, desexualized, we don't often hear about those narratives, you feel me, of the Mammy caricature, right? Being sexually assaulted, you know? So just thinking about this shit, this shit is grown and this shit started in slavery, bro. It started in the, of colonization, you feel me? It's the colonial product and we still living in this colonial product today. And as soon as we can better start to see the connections between that shit, between the two, is as soon as we can start moving towards an actual inclusive and liberated world, my nigga, come on. Cause we got a lot of fat black folks running around this motherfucker, falling victim to the state. Come on, y'all. So yeah, if you need more. Horphobia too, we don't talk about that as well. We just trying to give you some pre-definition, you feel me, before we get our expert on you, you feel me, we ain't by no means no experts, but niggas just trying. And you know, who knows, Raven might get on this motherfucker and correct this. We could be wrong. When we talking about horphobia and its links to fucking white supremacy and patriarchy, you got like, we're looking at horphobia, right? Which is the oppression and justification of the, like the exploitation and dehumanizing of sex workers, my nigga, it's right there for you. Literally, you feel me, a lot of our listeners are on Oakland, you feel me? We know OPD nigga, sex trafficking, right? Literally, OPD had one of the biggest sex trafficking cases going on, right? And they're the ones who are supposed to stop sex trafficking when the niggas in blue is the ones doing it. What the fuck, that is the very foundation of this country, you feel me, of fucking slave owners, nigga, of slave patrollers, sexually assaulting enslaved Africans, right? This is the very root and the very foundation. So we gonna dive even deeper into that, you feel me, as well, so. Yeah, I'm looking, you know, this is gonna be a very, I'm looking to learn a lot. I know it's gonna be a very informative episode, so you all tune in, shout out, Raven. Episode 71, have a black, you feel me? Tap in with us, you feel me? Patreon, patreon.com, such hell, black pod. Tap in with us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts. Subscribe, give us a five star review, please. Please, a five star review. If you don't wanna give us a five star review, just, that's fine, just don't give us a review at all. We don't want it, but yeah, tap in. Fuck with us on IG at hell, black pod. Twitter at hell, black pod. All right, shit, episode 71, have a black. You feel me, we ain't here rocking, recording. Special guests for y'all. Special guests, you know, we've been coming with them guests lately, too, we just been rocking. I know sometimes y'all might be tired of our voices and shit, so, you know, niggas just passing the mic, the virtual mic, and we ain't this motherfucker rocking. We got Raven on this thing, AKA Mother Princess, is that what it is? Yeah, I'm virtually grabbing a mic, it's me and Raven. What's going on, how you doing? I'm doing real good, you know. As good as anybody can be due during this time, how are y'all? We chilling. Chilling, maintaining, you know. Mobbing. Mobbing, drinking all water, you know, green juice and shit, rocking. You all in Chicago, right? Yeah, I'm from Chicago, but I'm in Central Illinois for college, so, you know, low bump fields out here. Yeah, we was out in Chicago maybe around this time last year. Yeah. Yeah, we pulled up out here. We had a show at the University of Chicago. Yeah, University of Chicago. Oh, really? Yeah. It was cold as hell. It was cold as hell. No, yeah, it do be cold as fuck. And windy as shit. What is out there right now? Oh, is there a pain where I'm at or in Chicago? Where are you at? It was windy today, but it was like, you know, slightly nice, it was like, I don't know, I'm real bad at temperatures, but it had to be at least 70. You be putting your arm outside the window. You'd be putting your arm outside the door and like, all right, that's the temperature. You'd be checking the temperature with your arm. No, I'd judge the weather by how many niggas riding down the street cat-calling at me. So it was nice today. It was a decent amount. That's how you know it's hot. That's how you know it is. Yeah. Oh, shit. We kind of introduced you on our little intro, but I don't think anyone can do you more justice than yourself. We told folks that we had Raven, who was a fast sex worker coming on the drop some game. But I don't know if you know what else you want to, how else you want to be referred to. Sure. So, you know, I'm Raven, like y'all said, I'm a sex worker, a PhD student, I'm a fat black woman, you know, a cat mom, so, you know, and a lesbian. So, you know, I'm kind of a little hodgepodge of things, but you know, most importantly, I am a Sailor Moon fan. If there's anything I want people to know, it's that. Ooh, Sailor Moon, I'm not really, I didn't really, is Sailor Moon anime? Definitely is, and if you haven't seen it, you're tweaking. I mean, I remember it from like being a kid. Sailor Moon, I thought about it like, was that Rome called? Isn't there a Rome called? Oh, Sailor Jerry. Sailor Jerry, that's what my mom was talking about. Sailor Moon was hard though. I was like, what, how far is it called Sailor Moon? She had like that power that would come from her crown, right? Yeah, if she would get like. Did she used to shoot niggas with that? No, it turned out to be more. If she was. Did she used to shoot niggas with that? Like, what happened? What did she do with that? No, she would take her tiara and like, blink it at niggas, like, it would turn like, it's like a boomerang, and Muffa could be destroyed. She know, did she know like, did she know martial arts? Like, what was her thing? Well, I mean, not really, she's like, you know, it was a lot of light flashes. Like she would say, catchphrase, and Muffa could evaporate in a light. Do I need to watch Sailor Moon? Do I need to watch Sailor Moon? I think so. I think that's, because I'm tweaking right now. I ain't never watched. Okay, I'm about to, okay, I'll wait. So what's your favorite catchphrase? Oh, shit. What's your favorite catchphrase? Catchphrase is like, after she done transforming, like, when she's like gonna beat your ass, she says, in the name of the moon, I will punish you. And then she just, you know, goes crazy. I'm gonna have to sample that and just like randomly put that throughout the interview. No, literally. That's funny as hell. It was only on for five seasons though. Yeah, it was, it was like five seasons. I think it was like 200 some episodes. Damn. 200 episodes in five seasons? Those were some season seasons. Yeah. Shit. We're like season, season. Bruh. So you said you're getting your PhD? Yeah. So right now, you know, you got to complete your master's degree, except for me as a PhD student, which is weird because it's like, I don't have my master's yet, but yeah, like I'm a PhD student. What's your study? So I'm an educational policy with a concentration in social sciences. And then what I look at as far as like my research, I look at, I'm currently looking at black sex workers and how like their proximity to DVSE disallows for them to like join academic and professional organizations geared towards black students. So, you know, thinking of like the Jack and Jill and the sororities and the fraternities, like they're for the advancement of black people, but there's a reason you don't hear about or really see sex workers like, you know, in that domain. What's your research on so far? So far I'm one like just defining, you know, trying to find a way to define it in the context of my research. So far though, it's looking like, you know, there's the reason that black sex workers are excluded from, you know, those type of organizations is on-purchase because from what I'm understanding, is that the, hmm, how do I phrase this? Self-dead black folks think that if they play by white people rules that racism will not exist to them. So they exclude and ignore everything that makes them black, even though they're obviously still black and obviously still experiencing racism. And yeah, so, you know, early stages, very early stages, but yeah. Shit, that sounds like some important work. Thank you. You know, I'm hoping it'll grab everybody by the edges and get them to start acting right. Yeah, shit. You know, when you talk about D9 though, it's, people, that's like a taboo thing for some reason to talk about, especially like respectability politics within that. And, you know, a lot of the talented tense shit that's been pushed for generations. Yeah, that's how it is. Yeah, like for sure, for sure. Muffins definitely get in their feelings about it. Oh, you're not wrong in the least. There's, you know, people in departments that, you know, I work with or departments that I'm in that are part of, you know, orgs like that. And, you know, they don't really, they have a lot to say about my work, you know, but, you know, I think that it's important for us to talk about these things that make us a little uncomfortable, you know, because if we don't, like, you know, shit can't stay the same, you know? Yeah, I mean, good research should make you uncomfortable in some ways because it's exposing something that hasn't been talked about. And that is a normal, that isn't fucking standard. It's white supremacist, you know, society that we is living in. You're right. And this is on good research though, because it's a lot of people and academia, academia is trash. It don't mean nothing. That's mean nothing, all of that shit. But it's people here that just, you know, reiterate the same thing that, you know, Du Bois has been talking about for years. So, he's talking about, you know, it's just on what you say, good research makes you uncomfortable. Yeah, I'm in the academy too. I teach at Cal. So, I'm already knowing all that shit. Niggas just be repeating this shit and calling it new research. It's like, bruh, you're saying the same shit over and over again. You just use a different big word to say it, bruh. That ain't research. That's called copy and paste and what can you do with the source? I was about to say shit. Buzz me white for a bigotter when we're doing that shit, Ruth. Tilly. Shit, so I don't know if you've listened to Hell of Black before, but one of the first things we try to do with Hell of Black is start it off with some joy. You know, I ain't that white joy, but that black joy, you feel me? So, you know, I know joy is kind of hard right now or it can be hard, especially in the times that we live in, but, you know, do you have any black joy moments that you want to share with our audience? Ooh, black joy, black joy. Man, this part is gonna be weird as fuck, but like something when you said joy, the first thing that popped up in my mind is how in high school, Niggas used to say, if you eat almond joys, you eat ass? Or like, that was such a- I've never heard that. I've never heard that. That must be a real Chicago thing right there. I'm like, wait, wait, I don't even know if it was a Chicago thing. You could have just been a niggas in my school feeling weird, but that's like you eat almond joys, you eat ass. And that's such a black ass memory because I don't feel like that was said in non-black spaces. So like when you said that, I immediately got like a flash of happiness remembering like that white shit. Because the black joy triggered almond joy, which triggered niggas eat ass. And guess what? I eat almond joys. Well, they damn near weren't wrong. They were not wrong. Have you seen that little meme? Like if you type, if you go to Twitter right now, you search like a, I fuck, is it a GIF or a GIF? Who knows? If you search whatever that is and you put like confusion, what I'm seeing right now is that GIF with the nigga like where it's like fucking triangles and numbers and hella formulas going across his head. I'm trying to figure out- Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I'm trying to figure out how black joy got you to- Think about almond joys. Think about eating ass. I have no idea. Maybe it's a coconut because you know, bitches be like rubber coconut oil all in a booty cheeks and stuff. Maybe like it's that. Yes, I do. That is a good- That is a good theory. We're gonna have to research that more. That was hilarious. That's like, that whole sequels is very funny to me. That was, you're very funny. You know, we can be a nigga eating almond joys. Almond joys are actually disgusting ass isn't it? My late grandma used to eat them hoes religiously, so she didn't tell me nothing. This is a great way to start this episode. A great way to start the episode. So let's see, what about you? You got black joys about to go into the episode without talking about your own black joy. Nah, man, I'm always- Let me see. Let me see. You know what I'm making a commitment to right here on episode 71? For every episode, I'm gonna start writing my black joy out before. So I don't gotta sit here and ponder. I waste our listeners' times with me fucking acting like I'm at the McDonald's menu. Can I get a mug? Good, good. Right, and so we'll make chicken. You heard me here first, y'all. In my declaration, I will be ready for every episode of Hella Black moving forward. Episode 71, you will never hear me stutter over my black joy ever again. Yeah, I can't do this. It sounds like what you're talking about is journaling. I don't wanna break your bubble. It just sounds like you're saying you've been a journal. No, so you know how we sent you an outline? Like, I'll have a separate outline and I'll note my black joy. So when Blake asks me, what's my black joy moment? I'm gonna open the doc up and I'm gonna say, I'm gonna be triggered by whatever buzzword I use. I'm gonna tell my story. But from my black joy, I went to my granny house this past week and we got her some cable and Wi-Fi. I know that, man. That's the big deal for me just because, you know, being able to do some nice from my grandma. Because niggas need cable and Wi-Fi period you're playing blank. Yeah, especially now. Niggas are so far removed from like, not even basic cable, but you like when you don't have cable at all and all you get is seven channels and three of them are static-y. That's what I have my grandma do. And that's some bullshit. So I went over there recently. I was like, what the fuck? Like, this what you be watching? They're in their telomundo? Nah, we ain't going out like this. I'm about to get my day. They talk to you. She's gonna know all the stuff on love and hip hop. I'm gonna get my granny every channel they fucking got. Yeah, I'm gonna get her some damn Wi-Fi. So that was my black joy moment. What about you? Super night. I got my Harley waxed and washed. That shit was dirty. And I got that shit cleaned. That shit made me hella happy. I don't know. I really love bikes and motorcycles and shit. So getting that shit washed and waxed. It should look like it was brand new right out the showroom. So shout out to Hard to Top Detail, man. Get me right, man. That shit was cool. And I went on a ride. Niggas been on the house for a minute with fucking asthma and shit, but going on a ride getting some wind therapies is what I like to call it. That shit was nice to just get out the house and experience some joy through that. Real relaxing. Hey, I'm happy for you, man. 100 miles per hour, man. That shit feel like freedom. I swear to God. I've always wanted to join a lesbian biker gang. Shoot. Now's the time. You know how to ride a motorcycle? Not at all. I want to be a, what is it called, a backpack? I want to be a backpack, a fine bitch backpack. That's all I want. My niggas said I wanted to join the lesbian biker club just so I can ride on my fucking back. Just so I can get on the back. Literally. They're going to throw your ass in that little side cart. That's what happened in that movie. That movie, Biker Boys. I just seen that movie. That shit was wild. Shit, well, we're going to check up with you in like a year and see if that dream, dream has came true. Soon as quarantine over, that gotta be the first thing on the list. So, we're going to hold you accountable to it. So, please do already get the rock and we could dive into this, to this, to this game, this game related shit. You can lace our boots one time, Raven. We're trying to pick ourselves up with the bootstraps with this radical, this radical theory and this radical action. So, you know, first of all, it's as, you know, we know that black fat people and sex workers are some of the most marginalized and oppressed identities in this white supremacist patriarchal state known as the United States of America. And as someone that identifies as both, can you talk about your experience as a result of these intersecting identities? Yeah. So, whoa, that's locking on pack here, as they say. So, you know, being like that and black and, you know, with that quarter, I'm in a field where people, you know, hire me for various services. But, you know, they mostly, it's based off of like desirability, you know? And so, I understand that as a black person, I'm already considered like undesirable and then as a fat black person, I'm considered undesirable. So, I mean, I'll be frank, you know, it mirrors what it is and like, you know, the non-sex worker world, the civvy world. And so, it's a lot of, you know, derogatory terms. You got to get in where you fit in, you know? Like the only time the things that like, I'm brought up or respected is if, you know, a month I'm feeling a little like desi and they want to do a fat, you know, black sex worker 3A, you know, it'd be the same like 10, 20 bitches and shit like that. Cause we're kind of, you know, it's not really too many of us or a lot of us are just in hiding. But, you know, well, I don't get the... What's the word I want to use? I don't get the, I guess the non-fat experience with that work where it's just a cute petite girl going out with a, you know, older man. I get the, you know, you're just so, so big. Can you dominate me? Can you make me feel like a weak puny little white man? It's very like fetishy, even more so because it's the fatness and the blackness like working together. Yeah, we talked about kind of that demonizing of black folks as a direct result kind of like, you know, the Mammy character, sure. Like that whole thing of like... Sure, sure. And it's oftentimes it's like being desexualized but that's not the case at all, right? Like oftentimes like the popular narrative is being desexualized, but you're also sexualized in a lot of ways too, right? Is that what you're saying? Yes, very sexualized. Like, you know, growing up, especially just, you know, dissing him like my fat body, things that I were aware would just be more like inherently provocative because it was on my body. You know, I had like titties and haze and, you know, stuff like that, but I'll be very, very upfront. Like while I am fat, I'm on the smaller scale of fatness. I actually recently within the last six months got some cosmetic procedures done. I got liposuction and a Brazilian butt lift. So now my fatness is not only smaller, but it's more, it's considered desirable because it's proportionately in the right places. And so I will say comparing before I got the CDL to now, like now I have solid proof that niggas just don't like that, bitches, it'll just mean to them straight up. Cause now that I'm shaped like a Coke bottle, people are nicer to me. Like I'm still fat, but you know, always somebody don't take some cause I'm big, but people are nicer to me. People just treat me generally with more respect. I've always been a very, very feminine girl, like acrylic nail lashes that when I blink, they like touch my eyebrows and get, you know, get a little uncomfortable with pink is my favorite color, like all of that. But I was never seen as feminine before. I'm, you know, got my body proportioned in a certain way. But now like people just see me as a such feminine, light, sweet girl. And I'm like, wow, y'all niggas love this cause I've always been in the way. I was just shaped like a refrigerator. And when you talk about, I guess like the, the distance between fatness and femininity, femininity, femininity, femininity, femininity, femininity. Femininity, femininity, femininity, femininity, Jesus. We gotta start doing tongue twisters before we start. This is what I get for calling you dyslexic last week. Y'all worked in the serious ways. When you see the distance between the two, right? This lets you know that what that experience, if people equate fatness with not being feminine, you can imagine what the experience of a fat black woman is like. Right. Cause a lot of your experiences is being. Not being seen as a woman. Yeah. Not being seen as a woman. No, yeah, definitely. I've seen people start to use this term with lots of, you know, things, but it's weird to me when they talk about fat black women that way. Cause they'll say fat black women like weaponized their femininity. Here we go, yes. That's a hard-ass word. But they'd be like, you know, someone's always weaponizing their femininity. And I'm looking at these fat black men. I'm like, hey, how is she weaponizing her femininity? Let's just give it up. Let's skip that one. How we see weaponizing her girliness if most of us don't even see her like as a girl or a woman. Like how, how is that happening? Can you explain that to me? You know, people get mad and start using verbiage. They don't even know what I mean enough. So, you know. Niggas just be using big-ass words and words they just fucking learned that they don't even really know what they mean just to demonize black women, especially black fat black. Anyhow, someone can give and take an identity when they see it. Yeah, like niggas be like, oh, I don't believe in identity politics. But now you're weaponizing your identity and you're engaging in some identity politics. So it's like, nigga, what? Pick a side. You gotta pick one. Like, is it not real or is it very real? Which is it? Cause it sounds like it's real and y'all just want to use it to your own fucking way. You know what I mean? Like, y'all just making shit up. Every time, you know, it kills me, you know, when the, when the skinnies get to life, skinny shaming is like so real and da, da, da, da, da, like skinny tears tastes delicious to me. Cause it's just always, you know, for a fat, you know for a fat, the skinny shaming is not at the level of fat shaming because you yourself fear being fat. Like that's a legitimate fear within your heart. And, you know, it just goes over their heads and they cry more. Especially seeing on Twitter, it was like, this one trend is like, before you DM me, you know, I'm looking like this. And then you see a bunch of like skinny, skinny women, like posts and shit. Like, bro, this shit was not for you. Like, bro, what the shit was not for you? Chill. Like. It's like, you took this thing that was clearly about, most of it was like stomach, stretch marks, all of that. This was clearly about fat body. And you took upon yourself to use it as a moment for somebody to like, to give you validation in a world that already gives you validation like you're sick and you need help. Niggas be stealing from black fat folks. That's what it is. And to be black people doing this shit too. I mean, that's how privilege works, right? It's a pick and choose with parts of people you want. You want to, you want to try home. Yeah. So you want to like be hella anti-fat, but then use the trends of black fat people. Even in fat suits, like, Niggas, why not just hire a fat actor? Like what? I've always wondered that. Like, it's this movie, this old ass movie called Shallow Hal, probably the most problematic movie. I think we talked about that with DeShon on it. Yeah, Shallow Hal is a mess. Is that Kate Hudson? I don't know. One of the white people. I think it's Jack Black, you know? Yeah, Jack Black. And I think it's like the woman who put on the fat suit is Kate Hudson, I believe. I don't know. I think I thought it was her. It's the same movie. Super skinny bit stuff, for sure. Like, it's definitely not somebody's fat. Like, yeah, movies like that. Like, it's like the same thing with, you know, people with darker skin tones or people of like very specific ethnicities. Like, why not just get those people, right? So just thinking about like respect for black women, for black fat women and shit. And then, you know, talking about like black sex workers as well. So like, what does respect for black fat sex workers look like? You know, because I think if we think about respect for black fat sex workers, that's gonna lead to respect for everybody, you know? Yeah, so I mean, I think, you know, respect is one of those things where I don't want to say what one person, what respect looks like for one person because it's just, it's so different for everybody. But I think as a general like statement, like one, you know, decriminalize like that sex worker bodies. Like, of course, protect them from harm, you know? Respect looks like you loving us in public and in private. Like, I'm tired of the whole, like, I like that bitch is behind the scenes, but in public, you know, I need me, somebody who's a little bit more like conventional. Like, I think respect just looks like openly defending us. A lot of people will defend us in private. Like, I've had friends who, somebody to say something really like fat phobic to me. And then, like, you know, when we're at home, they're like, I can't believe they said that to you. Duh-duh-duh-duh-duh. And it's like, bitch, you were standing right there. Why was I the only one opening my mouth? Like, I think respect was like, you know, standing on the front lines with us. And if you were asking me personally what I think it is, I think it's standing on the front line in front of me because I'm tired of talking about this bad shit. It's offered to any folks who know better to start telling their fellow skinnies to get it together. You said fellow skinnies. You fellow skinnies, nigga. Y'all niggas need to link up and get it together. Literally, y'all need to band together and just get it right. Yeah, it's going to cause for a lot of motherfuckers to start checking anti-fatness. And I even think that, yeah, and I realize that's something that shit has been hard for me to do, my nigga, like, and of course, I don't think my anti-fatness always, as a way, right? It didn't look like making fun of fat people or laughing at, like, laughing at fat people for clearly anti-fat jokes and shit, right? But it looks like my association's to die. For me, it looked like my association to my own body and as a result, how I perceive my own body as a direct relation to how I perceive fat bodies in general. So it was like starting to do my own fucking unpacking. That's what niggas got to realize, because people like to think that non-fat, people like to think that anti-fatness doesn't affect them. You know what I'm saying? That's what niggas are starting to believe. And it's like, nah, first of all, do and you got to realize how that shit is directly connected to colonialism in the terms of if we're going to be talking about liberation for black folks. We got to liberate all black folks. And that includes fat black folks. Yeah, and I think the like, you know, the introspective part, you know, you were mentioning, like, you know, thinking about like, you know, fatness and diet culture and how that relates to you, whether you're fat or not. Like, as somebody who did get plastic surgery, like that's something that I've had to do even recently. You know, I've always done it being a smaller fat, trying to not take up space. Like, I'm not gonna say no names because I'm not shady, but we all know that this is on Twitter and Instagram that are quote unquote, you know, like fat influencers and stuff like that, but they're shaped like, you know, co-pottos and they all like, you know, racially ambiguous. I would never want to be one of those taking up space in the fat liberation movement. So like, checking myself more and more as I like go down this like, you know, cosmetic surgery road as I plan to get even more because it's so fun. And then asking myself like, hey, Raven, like, why are you so invested in having this body? You know, getting permanent like procedures to like make yourself look this way. And I don't wanna, you know, come down on people or take away their autonomy, like in them making decisions for themselves when they like partake in certain parts of diet culture or, you know, plastic surgery culture to get like, you know, body modifications. I just think it's really important that we talk about why you're doing it, what you're going to gain out of it. And if this is something that you like, you know, what feel comfortable like ever doing again. Cause chances are if you're not comfortable doing it twice, you're probably not comfortable like doing it the first time. And then also asking like, I think I said this already, but who are you doing it for? That's like a super big one. Yeah. I mean, for me, it came down to, man, I've always wanted a bigger booty, honestly. And then, you know, I know what helped me with like my sales. I know what helped me like with my sex work and stuff like that. And it has, it definitely has. And so, you know, it's just making sure that things like that, like, are just, you're always being critical of it. It's not being critical of like, don't do it at all. Yeah. I just find so many times people want to not mention the why. It's like, dawg, you have the right to do what you're going to do, but we have to address the why. Cause for one, the why might change your mind. We got it. It might change your mind. And for two, you don't want to, you can't be in denial. Yeah. Cause the denial doesn't just look like you only getting, yo, it doesn't look like your anti-fat and it's only affecting you. It looks like the way that you interact with fat people in general. So that's not denied a why. Yeah. For sure. And I think the why can bring out like, issues of the system or, you know, the phobia that you're trying to bring out to like, it took me a minute to be able to say to myself, I got this surgery because I'm tired of whenever somebody's like, you pull with me. I'm a big beautiful woman, but whenever somebody's mad at me, I'm a sloppy shaped fat bitch. Like I had to admit to myself that I was so tired of that. And then I was like, damn, what is that thing about our society that I got surgeries because I was tired of people like making fun of my body type. Yeah. I mean, it's just so deeply rooted in the society. And like, I feel like these conversations, like, I felt like I first got hit when like, Deshawn started talking about this, you know? So even for me, like, I felt like, oh, I read a lot or I'm trying to learn a lot, but like, this is just a conversation that I'm starting to have within this past year, you know? And especially relating it, you know, to white supremacy, to colonization, to these systems, you know, that we profess to hate, but then oftentimes we'll engage in like anti-fat jokes and shit like that. But I think that the introspective part, you know, that's the hardest part, you know? At least like, I feel like for myself, when I started learning about it, I'm like, okay, shit. Like, why did I, you know, why am I obsessed with working out? Why do I need to work out, you know? Like, just even shit in my childhood and shit, you know, I was always like, bigger, I guess you could say. And just like, oh, you know, why was I made to work out? Shit like that. And how do I associate working out in a way that's actually healthy for me, you know? So I think that introspective part is super important. So I think one thing to just transition a little bit is like, how can people start to unpack their fat phobia? You know, and I think a lot of it is being introspective in some ways, but yeah, just how can folks begin to unpack their fat phobia for both people that are fat and aren't fat? I think the first thing that comes to mind is understanding that your fat phobia is not a preference. I think a lot of people are in this stage of like, you know, or they take the word phobia a little bit too seriously. They're like, I'm not afraid of fat people. I don't fear anything like, all right, nigga, shut up. I think people need to like understand that you thinking that I'm ugly and less deserving of certain healthcare rights, less deserving of respect and less deserving of even getting fucking clothing options is not a fucking preference. That is like systematic as fuck. And then like, I think as far as like unpacking it even further, asking yourself where you got these ideas from, you know, and then looking at yourself in the mirror, because I feel like we all have fat people in our life that we love, because we know them personally. Looking at yourself in the mirror and being like, wow, like the things that I think about fat people also extends to the fat people in my life that I love in that fucking trash, because they don't deserve that. Yeah, it's facts. Yeah, I really, I really resonated with the like, look who you got your ideas from, like, look who helps shape your view on fatness. And when you see who it's the same like D, you made the point earlier, you getting this information from the same people that are in charge of the system that you claim to hate. But you engage in with it yourself. Exactly, I think another big piece is asking yourself, like what is fat? What is health? Who is determining what's fat? Who's determining what's healthy? Who's determining what behaviors are, you know, this way. And a lot of it goes back to the medical field. And if we can have these conversations about how the medical system is like, you know, very, very anti-black, we need to be at a place where we have the conversations about how the medical system is very anti, you know, anti-fat and how it's, you know, perpetuating all these horrible things. Like, I think something city-fed that is like super, super resonated with me, got into an argument on Facebook with family members about it, is that obesity and obese is a slur. Like that's a fucking slur, just because somebody put it in some little, you know, med school book, don't make it like not a slur. Right. And it's like these races been put in hell of racist ass shit in medical school books. But why don't you think they're putting anti-fat shit in medical school books? They anti everything else, nigga. Like, literally they have what Drake Tomia, Drake Tomia was a psychological disease that they came up with for enslaved Africans who was running off of the plantation. Like they literally said that was an academic term, you know, so it's like- That was a disease. That was a disease. Running for your freedom. Looking at the foundation, and I think this is important, especially, you know, you being in the academy, and she was like, the academy is a site of colonial indoctrination and colonial propaganda. This is what produces all this shit. I mean, this is what produces this type of thought that is later being used on Twitter or being used on television shows and shit like that. So, this is rooted in the academy. And I like how you was talking about just health too, you know, like people, even for myself, like I probably gained 40 pounds since I stopped playing sports in college. But like my health is better than it was when I was in college. But people might not think that because I gained weight. But literally, my body feels better. I'm not waking up with pain every single day. You know what I mean? Like my mental health is stronger. And health is such a fully encompassing word too. You feel me? It ain't just the physical. But in America and in a country that hates fat people, we directly connect weight to size. I mean, it's health to size. That's why we determine it's healthy or unhealthy. Not your fucking organs, your nervous system, how much weight you have. My little brother is skinny as fuck. Like growing up, the nigga was so skinny, bruh. And that motherfucker was so unhealthy with the nigga eight. Like just eating hella candy and shit. Like it was nothing, bruh. Like I love my little brother and shit. Don't get me wrong. But that nigga was just eating hella candy. That shit was not healthy. So I was on Reddit. So, you know, this story is already starting off on me doing something though. I was on Reddit and I was in the Sugar Baby part of Reddit. And they do these things where they rate your profiles on like, you know, Sugar Baby website. And at the time I was vegan slash, you know, plant-based. And somebody, I kid you not, you know, I'm just putting it up there. Like rate my profile, you know, give me tips. Like what do you think is good? And this guy was like, he gave me this whole like five-page paper on why it doesn't make sense for me to put that on plant-based in my thinking arrangements profile because I'm fat and then proceeded to zoom in on the pictures of me and say that, you know, he's like, your BMI looks to be about this. They gave me like this, all these sightings about why it's like, okay for people to hate me because I'm fat and I'm biologically inferior because I'm black as well. And I was like, damn, Reddit cop, dude, I was on Reddit for like five hours. Like I just made the account. I was like, this shit kind of wild, like. I heard Reddit is wild in general. Like, I ain't never really been on it. Yeah. Yeah, Reddit is something else. But, and I'm not saying that I like it or endorse it. Like people on Reddit are fucking sick, but like being on Reddit and engaging in like, you know, sex worker, like Reddit's and stuff like that has made, it made me see even more clearly the way that black sex workers are treated in the mean and stuff like that. Cause people who like, I feel like Twitter, people's likes are face like progressive, like, you know, they want to act like they don't have these horrible ideologies that they need to unpack and work through. Yeah, Reddit's real fucking honest. Like you can't hide from that. There's no face really on the profile. So it's like, you know, more anonymous, like almost like that 4chan shit. Yeah. You know, definitely. Yeah, I heard Reddit is like, and 4chan is like those two stomping grounds for like white supremacists. No, yeah, I've never, I've never been given statistics on why I'm like, my body and my race are biologically inferior. That was really new to me. I was like, damn. You know what, you know what I've noticed when it comes to like, allyship and solidarity for black sex workers and sex workers in general, like a lot of motherfuckers is not going past the performative. You know what I'm saying? That's the reason why you still got so many black sex workers out here starving and fucking poverty. This is the reason why you still got so many black sex workers being assaulted and shit. It's because Niggas not really taking the time to see what it need, what solidarity looks like, what it looks like to be in solidarity with black sex workers. Like Niggas is just online, taking all y'all fucking theory and preaching everything that y'all tell us and on the back end doing nothing to really improve y'all day-to-day living conditions. Not even going as far to really engage with y'all on a day-to-day basis. Past as much as what they can get from you. No, very much so. I mean, you know, it's all funny games when it's a thread, you know, talking about who you're sexually attracted to, but when it comes time, they're like, you know, give me your fucking money. Like Niggas is gone, like completely. When it comes time or, you know, just looking at who gets booked and who doesn't get booked. Like it's very, very clear who's getting the money and who's not getting the money. And black sex workers, you know, it's a whole different ball game. Like it's just very, very hard. And it gets more hard and more dangerous. Like, you know, the more deviant you are from everything else, well, if you're trans, if you're fat, I mean, even little things is being like a bald, black bitch, into sex work. Like that can even like, you know, like cause you some danger. Yeah. I know one thing we were talking about earlier on the introduction of this episode was this concept of like horophobia. So you think you can define that for us too? Sure. So for me, horophobia is the hatred and discrimination systematically, legally, and personally of sex workers or those like who engage within like the sex worker field. But I also think that it can extend to people who are not in the sex worker field. Such as a girl who's, you know, wearing a crop top and somebody, you know, slut-shamed her for that. Like that's a, that's a horophobia type of thing to do. But I feel like the hood of it comes from like the hatred of like sex workers. And in my opinion, I would argue the hatred of black sex workers. I mean, cause what is sex work in all, in all of his forums, right? It's like women taking control of their bodies, women taking control, women taking control of their financial status. We know in a patriarchal society that is not what niggas want. That goes directly against the status quo. Directly against it. Yeah, you're not, you're not performing, you're not performing capitalism correctly when you start charging for your time in your body. According to, in according to patriarch, you're not performing a woman hood correctly either. Shit. Yeah, you're definitely not. Cause you shouldn't be making money at all. Like you're, you know, whoever your man owner is to be making all the money. Especially not off your body. Yeah. And when a man isn't making no money off of it. A whole other layer. Like especially I feel like right now, you know, as a lot of things, you know, I feel like it's transitioning to online. We're seeing like a lot of increased hatred by man for sex workers who've, you know, moved more to like only fans, right? Can you talk a little bit more about this and like, you know, what you think this hatred is rooted in? I think this hatred is rooted in like, in part things are broke and they don't have access to pretty girls. Talk about it. Cause it's a paid one. It's a paid one. And I think, and it's, you know, it's a rich man. So, you know, they're definitely, they all men partake in this, you know, to an extent or they have. But, you know, I think a lot of it at the ground level, the first ones you see is always the brokest ones because, you know, they no longer have access to women, which, you know, I guess if you want to look at it like in capitalistic terms, like having pretty girls on you is like, you know, capital. So they don't have access to that because they can't afford it because there's a paywall now. I also think there's just a general disgust when people ever see women financially, becoming financially free or close to financial freedom or on that path. I think people really, really hate that and more than they're willing to admit even when they see, you know, women with high paying jobs even if it's a quote unquote respectable job, people hate seeing women at high paying positions just being paid and having money. It doesn't make them feel very good. And I think it makes men feel really, really low about themselves. I think it makes them feel like airfailing. So they take that anger and that violence out on like women for sure. And, you know, because of, you know, this only fans boom that honestly has been happening for the past like six months. I feel like before even like, you know, this pandemic took place. But because of like this boom, you're seeing more and more of it visibly. So I think it's a reminder every time a nigga log on a Twitter damn, can't afford it. Damn, I don't feel like a man. Damn, I'm not getting no pussy. Like I think it's just because it's always happening so rapidly they can't escape it anymore. And so now they're like- The niggas are boiling over. Like they are boiling over. No, yeah. It's like, you know, his eyes starting on only fans, niggas be like shaking like that. Niggas from fairly odd parents, they be dinkle birds but it's just like, they just be mad, it sucks. Niggas about to pop a boy vessel. Bro, I've had to ask niggas like, like my own niggas, like they'll say something about only fans. I'm like, bro, you gotta really ask yourself, why are you so concerned with this woman doing her body? Why are you so mad that she's getting money? Like ask yourself those two things. Cause if you said that about a nigga, niggas would be calling you a hater. Niggas would be ready to kill you if you was pocket watching another man, right? So I'm like, ask yourself, why ask ask yourself, why are you so upset that she has the only fans? Cause you- And now you look like a straight weirdo. Ew, are you pocket watching niggas be saying- You look like a weirdo. Are you going to say something that's going to be so, bro, that's going to be so misogynistic. Niggas going to look at you like, what? So that's why you mad, God damn bro, you are weird as fuck. You out of pocket- The misogyny just be like the hell out of the way. That's what it really is. Niggas be sick of her only fans. I love this shit. I love seeing it. Can we, why be on the subject the only fans? Cause we have that, you made a good point Raven about this thing with like niggas knowing that they don't have access to pussy anymore. And yeah, I think that's also on the opposite side of it. You see niggas basically saying like, oh, if you got pussy, you would need only fans. And it's like, that's not the real, that's not what's really going on. You niggas one just don't believe that you should pay for porn or pay for content. That's what it is. This is a super big one for me. Like the whole people being like, why do you need to buy girl only fans? You can see pussy online for free. First of all, if you're watching like Pornhub or you porn like one of them, there's a very high chance that the pussy you're looking at is underage or that's an unconventional situation. That's dirty as fuck. Secondly, even though like, you know, some of the women who are engaging in porn, like of course like they're, you know, doing it consensually and of age, like they're getting scammed out of like so much fucking money. The reason you're able to see this free on the internet is because somebody duped them over and didn't give them what they were wearing. Period. So I think niggas are so used to seeing stuff like that for free. And because they think it should be free, I'm a nigga, I deserve to see, you know, like pussy getting cream pie, like every day for free. Like when a bitch says, no, I don't really feel that way. So I'm going to start on only fans. They start like just tweaking, bro. They like lose their shit. And what's crazy is that like, if we want to be honest, if you didn't want to pay for porn, that's a place we are in society, you don't have to. Nobody's saying that porn hub is getting shut down. Nobody's saying any of that shit. It's just bitches who are charging now. But them simply existing. It is like, it's just a threat to their masculinity. Like, and they pay, like, and that's where that patriarchy come in. It's like, oh, what? You talking about empowerment for yourself? Oh, I can't have that shit. It's your hatred of women, bro. That's what it, that's all it is. Like we have masculinity for showers in it, but what it is is like niggas literally can't, on some white shit, niggas can't stand to see and folks taking their destinies into their own hands. People can't seem to, people can't stand to see people have power over their own lives. Niggas was saying self-determination, but when a black woman or a black woman, sex worker practices self-determination. They got every, they got everything to say. They got every keyboard to pull out, nigga. What I want to say, go ahead, my back. I was just gonna say, I think also paying for porn is one of the easiest ways to get into the habit of like paying black women, paying black sex workers, paying fat black people. I think that's one of the easiest ways to get into the habit and the like, yeah, the habit and the tradition of doing that. You know, like, I don't think porn is bad at all. I don't think sex is bad. I think all these things are great. I love the erotic, but like, if that's something you're interested in and you claim to be about supporting these groups of people, pay the people to do that on camera for you, because they will and you're supporting someone and you're also getting, you know, your little nut off. Well, if you identify as a black radical, a black leftist and you're not paying for porn, you whole shit is capped. Period, point blank. You're a whole shit is capped, bro. Like, your whole shit is capped. I'm telling y'all right now, I am on only fans. Period, point blank. A part of my politics is paying for the porn that I consume, nigga. Period. I remember the first time I saw that. You pay people for their labor. Period, point blank. You pay people for their labor. I watch only things. That's how I consume my porn. I told bitches at a session that I was subscribed to like, this girl only fans. And when I tell you, they was looking at me weird as fuck. And I was like, whoa, y'all don't pay for y'all porn? We were tied as fuck. I had to get them to spiel. I was like, whoa. Tell these niggas why. Tell these niggas why they need to pay for porn. Tell these niggas why. No free labor, nigga. So especially with this, you know, pandemic COVID-19, right? You know, in Oakland, like seeing how this is affecting, you know, sex workers, right? Like OPD was literally had a whole sting operation on sex workers, right? So yeah, can you describe just a little bit more how you think, you know, COVID-19 is affecting sex workers and like what mutual aid and what support is needed for sex workers during this pandemic? Yeah, so I think a good starting point for this question would be if you've seen hustlers, the mess that it was, the part where it was after 2008 and you saw the strippers struggling and broke, that's what's going on now. This is if the people who pay us don't have money no more, who's gonna pay us for services? Who's going to use our services? Potentially and safely. So what's going to start happening as much as I don't want it to is that because people don't have money to pay for things like normally, people are gonna start exploiting sex workers more and more, people are gonna start, you know, sexually assaulting them because there's this idea that people like own sex workers bodies because that's just what we're here for, right? And so more violence and then of course seeing operations like this, there are more women turning to sex work or the women who aren't sex work are now no longer live screening or doing all these things because at this point they're desperate for cash and they just need the money to survive. And so like, you know, the police, of course, in law enforcement, they're just gonna jump on that, you know, to put more people in jail, to criminalize more people, all things like that. And so right now it's really rough for a lot of sex workers. A lot of, you know, as far as have the guns to do online sex work, but that's getting, it was kind of oversaturated before but now it's really oversaturated. And there's just not enough money going around. And so it's making it really hard for people to find a living. But it's also making it just more dangerous because those who are in the game, like, you know, shit is getting real tough and real real right now. Yeah, as if it was safe for sex workers to begin with, you know what I'm saying? Situations like this gonna make it even more unsafe. Every time. And then of course, you know, we talk about how black people are disproportionately being affected by COVID-19, like, but I think black sex workers, if you were to look like that specific, that's also gonna be there too. Because now, you know, this whole social distancing, how do I social distance if the way I get my money is by like being in person with clients? Like, what does that mean? You know, and so you got people who are like, you know what, I can't social distance. I got to put like food on a table. Or, you know, like, I don't even want to perpetuate this whole narrative about every sex worker being like super boring, bro. Bitches just might want to steal one nice thing. They might want a Chanel bag. But like, you know what, fucking, I'm gonna go like, you do my job. And so yeah, now they have the wrong shit like that. And then they go see more clients. And you know, it's just one of those things where it's just like impacted at that level. It's pretty severely. Yeah, I'm thinking about here at OPD, we had a huge scandal where OPD was basically sexually assaulting underage. Trafficking. Yeah, trafficking and sexually assaulting underage girls. And so now I'm thinking about what it's like to even have this hypervisibility of the police out on the street with the shelter in place, taking them motherfuckers, knowing that they're not there to protect them because either that they there, she calls the same art. Abolish police, period. Facts. Abolish the concept of police, the police themselves, abolish the government, abolish the state, abolish the USA. Let's get started right now. So as we talk about this pandemic and the experience of sex workers during this time, what mutual aid has been offered to you all and what mutual aid is needed? Mutual aid been offered to us that, I'm not quite sure as far as I know nothing. I mean, there's still, you know, all these like fosters that's like, does that show up? So I mean, like if anything, there's still like harm being done against us. And then I would say what these sex workers like me, it's gonna be very individual depending on the sex worker, but money, we're in a Catholic society where the only time we have access to like resources and shit is money. And if you can't give us money, but you have a way of giving us those resources, give it to us. Not through like a middleman, not through some fancy little organization that makes you feel good, but give it to us directly. We got carrots out in our bio. We got, you know, Venmo PayPal, Bitcoin, all of it, trust me. So I would say like start paying for porn. I think that's a great way to like start like putting money in people's pockets during the time like this. So that's the only like mutual aid I could think of is just like listening to what sex workers want. If you know one in real life, like personally ask them for it, but yeah, that. So to actually, again, I guess from your personal, your personal perspective, you know, Blake and myself are two men that, you know, say that we adapt the politics that will dismantle patriarchy. And we want to be allies in solidarity with women. So as two niggas that identify as that, what are some ways that we can show up for women and for sex workers? I think the two that pop up in our mind immediately is reference us when necessary and protect us without us having to ask you to. I think that it gets really, really tiring always have to be the fat black sex worker that has to like, you know, check somebody when they say something that's against fat black sex workers. Like people already don't want to listen to me because of the body that I'm in. But then it's also like I'm getting tired. I'm getting stressed out. So if you're like, you know, assistant man, like, or if you're anything that's just not a black sex worker, I feel like a real good thing for you to do to hold yourself accountable. And to like help like dismantle like these systems is when people do start a while in, you know, you step in the front line and you say something. And then you remind them niggas, hey, I'm saying this to you. I'm checking you on this. But guess what? Shorty fit is before. So that way, you know, Muffin's going to develop like a hero complex that white people do when they start like advocating for people to color. They be like, oh yeah, you got Tim Wise over here acting like he the fucking white savior talking for everybody. Don't even, you know, just like in academia they don't want to throw it back to like the person that said it originally. So now it looks like they didn't invent it. This brand new thing. And wow, don't they deserve all the flowers? Like no, so Defender, without a time to tell you too in public and in private and then remind it because that we've been saying this shit for years. I think that's a perfect segue to go into our Patreon exclusive content. But before we do that, you know, can you put your socials? Cash out, Venmo, Onlyfans. Onlyfans or whatever you got, Bitcoin, whatever. Yeah. What are listeners know? I don't have a Onlyfans, but if you would like some content of me doing some sexy stuff, just DM me on Twitter at love of princess. And then my Venmo and my cash app are love of princess, like a pimp in our princess. So pimp says. And then of course, like if you just want to have questions or you just want to have dialogue about any of the stuff my DMs are open for that too. I don't really do free labor, but I really do enjoy like, you know talking about stuff like this. And you know, I think the best ideas come from simple conversation. Well, we appreciate you for so. Thank you for fucking with Hella Black. Yes, of course. So to tap into this next part, tapping with our Patreon, patreon.com slash hella black pod, pay up and a good pay for the labor, pay for the learning and good support Hella Black, patreon.com slash hella black pod.