 Just to start off, because I think to look at the implications for Ireland, which is what we're doing here today It's also necessary to look at you know Why did the UK finally decide to resolve its difficulties with the European Union by deciding to leave? And I think if you go back an important point is that the UK always had a preference for a free trade area and a free trade Relationship rather than the single market the customs union does common policies on trade some harmonization of economic and social policies common policies on the environment and this was in order to retain more sovereignty because you've You pull less sovereignty in a free trade area than you do in the customs unions Also due to the Commonwealth issue at the time But that was the first veto that the Gaul exercise was actually in 1958 in November 1958 when he refused that free trade relationship To the United Kingdom and they eventually had to decide to join Margaret Thatcher then in her bruised speech in 1988 when she set herself apart on the social dimension of Europe lit the torch for your skepticism Cameron called the reason the referendum for internal reasons to outflank UK But I also think it's important to note that William Hague sent at October 2011 Before Cameron made that decision that when the opportunity arose the UK would take that opportunity To reset its relationship with Europe that hankering for the free trade relationship They thought the Eastern European states might be willing to go down that road that hankering for that free trade relationship was always there Coincidentally in 1988 also the law persuaded the labor movement at the TUC to back social Europe And that that was in their best interest But in my experience in meeting British trade unionists around Europe over many many years I don't think it was ever a full-blooded conversion on the part of the labor movement Calling a referendum then where he set out a call for fundamental reform of the European Union Adding immigration later, which is what he did because of UKIP getting only let's face it modest concessions in the negotiation It just created in my view a perfect storm in 1975 when Wilson held the referendum the economy was all that was about The UK was the sick man in Europe Now UK has virtually full employment. The eurozone is where the problems are the eurozone is weaker So it allowed immigration to take center stage having said that the leave campaign in my view Extraordinarily got away with telling voters. They could get a good deal simply because the UK has a trade deficit with the European Union Now to look at border controls both customs and passport which Thomas asked me to do It is related to what type of trade agreement the UK is going to be able to negotiate With the European Union from Ireland's point of view We would want them to have full access to the single market more than Norway and Switzerland because Norway and Switzerland do not have access for agriculture and fisheries From Ireland's perspective, that's one of our key interests. So we would want them to have full access But the difficulty is one of the key reasons the UK voted to leave was due to immigration We this has clear from the polls are from the decision last night And if you're part of the single market you've got to accept Immigration but let's say they did decide to be part of the single market even temporarily while they were Negotiating their other free trade agreements with third countries. Would they want to include agriculture? I think we could persuade the European Union to include agriculture in a single market Negotiations, but would the UK agree to that? They may in the short term because if they didn't it would have to impose the EU would have tariffs imposed on agriculture exports from the UK into the EU The UK would have to impose similar tariffs that would increase food prices in the short term But if they didn't impose corresponding tariffs that also have to give them to every third country on a WTO most favorite nation status So it's possible in the short term Agreement on free trade but in the longer term as Britain can negotiate and the one thing about being outside the EU But in the single market as you can negotiate trade deals with third countries in the longer term Britain may revert to a cheap food policy by Negotiating free trade with Mercasor and that has implications then in terms of Brazilian beef being able to access the The Irish market through the UK Backdoor my own assessment is that I can't see the European Union even though it will be in our interest To give the UK a good free trade deal without accepting all the rules We might want it from our point of view and that's one of the jobs We have to do in the national interest But the other member states are going to see that putting their own economies at a competitive disadvantage by giving the UK full access Without the UK having to follow all the rules So I think it unlikely So in that scenario we might have to think in terms of special transitional measures while we adjust to the fact that we've got to Find new markets in the wider Single market now whatever happens if the UK leaves the European Union Which has decided to do but stays in the single market you still have customs procedures because it can negotiate Trade agreements with third countries So you need rules of origin procedures to ensure that those third countries that the UK is Negotiating with can't bypass the common external tariff that the EU has so that's where rule of origin procedures arise You then have customs posts and customs procedures on the land border between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland that is Unavoidable there will be customs posts and customs procedures how intrusive and extensive we don't know It will depend on the amount of revenue risk first of all that is payable as as Third country sorry as the UK even within the single market exporting into The European Union that is payable at the point of entry Tariff would be payable for those areas that it doesn't have free trade in perhaps Agriculture but the rules of ours and procedure are the main Important thing in terms of customs procedures if the UK has a deal with Mercasor the Irish Farmers Association Will insist that customs controls are very stringent to ensure that Brazilian beef does not access the Republic of Ireland market bypassing the common external tariff Which are it's up to 70% would be 36% with with dairy so customs controls are an inevitable consequence passport controls Depend on whether you have free movement or not if the UK does stay in the single market and you have free movement Well passport controls don't arise. They will arise if the UK Leaves the single market Doesn't have agreement in relation to free movement So we may still retain free movement rights between Ireland and the UK. There's no reason why that should stop But the UK will not give free movement rights to Polish Latvian Eastern Europeans and the only way to ensure that they cannot get into the UK By using Ireland at the back door is by having passport controls to monitor and check that situation Where will the passport controls be? Well, we have a precedent the last time that the UK introduced passport controls When France fell in May 1940 They put passport controls not on the land border but between Belfast and Liverpool and Belfast and what's now Karen Ryan or if you were flying to London that didn't put them on the land border because they took the view that you couldn't police the land border effectively Cameron has already indicated that that would be the solution Preferred on this time round. I did a delayed the bait last night and Jeffrey Donalds Donaldson Was on and I spoke to him about this and he was quite Candidate if they had to have passport controls so be it it was more important from the Union's point of view to be out of the European Union and be able to do their own free trade deals and have to have that passport controls between Belfast and Liverpool Well, that wasn't a big concern. I suspect it might be if when it actually happens But that was the attitude he took last night so just finally just to end up on One small final point because I think the UK is an exceptional situation And I don't think it necessarily follows that it's going to lead to a rise of your skepticism all over Europe Having said that we know there is an issue. We know there's a problem. We know citizens have lost some faith in the European Project, I was in at a meeting of the European Social Fund last week under the Dutch presidency and the Commission made a very important presentation on a pillar of social rights. I gave the trade the trade union response to the Commission's presentation And it's linked to the next phase of economic and monetary union deepening for a deeper and fair Economic and monetary union. It's important to have a pillar of social rights. My own experience is it's always been social progress going in tandem with economic progress like in the single market and I think it does a danger now with the UK having left that the EU will pause and Be afraid to go further in terms of further integration, but I actually think that will be the wrong response I think the social pillar is a very very important Agenda in terms of persuading citizens to have a restored fate in the European Union. I'm quite confident that if the Commission and the member states go down that road That you know fate in Europe can be restored and I think it's necessary To set the British decision now Aside both Pat Cox will know more than I do about this whether that's actually going to happen or not We'll have to wait and see. Thank you very much