民主開放跟我們現在的當代藝術的創作更大的一個發展的空間所以我覺得今天我們的大會邀請唐鳳政委他怎麼樣從一個更開放的平台怎麼樣去促進臺灣更健全的民主更開放的公民的參與我相信等一下唐鳳政委他會用非常多的實力去大家了解在網路的世界裡面讓公民的參與更開放 更透明更多的參與 更多的包容 更多的民主在這樣的一個世界裡面跟我們的藝術世界的創作到底有什麼樣的一個連結甚至在我們的藝術評論的領域裡面怎麼去看待這樣子的趨勢或者是已經是一個事實的發展我相信今天唐鳳政委一定會帶給我們非常豐富而且精彩的內容我們是不是就以熱烈的掌聲方言我們的今天的主講者唐鳳政委各位朋友們想和你們分享一些想法我們稱之為《Digital Association Innovation》或者叫做《Virtuality and Democracy》我首先想要說在我所有的社交媒體上我的資訊資訊在接下來的五分鐘內會發表就是說你會決定我所說的如果你有一個手機或者任何的連結到網絡上的訊息《QR Code》是在現在的一段時間內我確定是一部分的藝術但是《QR Code》在哪裡我確定可以去slido.comwhich is slido.com網絡上的訊息在網絡上的訊息你可以進入另一個01116這是今天的數據可以選擇是0所以當你進入01116從slido.com你會進入一個《Virtuality and Democracy》的空間然後在這個空間有兩個領域第一領域是它是獨立的你可以按你的名字按你的答案按你的問題按你的問題但它是獨立的第二領域是它是獨立的它是沒有提供的它只是一個喜歡的東西所以如果你看到你會喜歡的東西再說一次或者回答你可以按你喜歡的東西然後你按然後你的問題是最多的數據會流到你會看到的例如這個人說你好還有人們有足夠的數據問題是最多的數據會流到最高而最多的問題會在這領域的底下的畫面上我確定這領域的畫面是一部分的畫面所以 please bear with the art所以我先開始用一些準備的畫面但沒有 這些已經有問題了所以我們先做個問題對所以這領域的Q&A我非常興趣在這領域的畫面上我確定這領域是一領域的畫面然後是一領域的畫面對所以我的畫面有17個然後非常困難但最終的獲得他們獲得了169個標準目標所以這些標準目標每個人在UN或者外界的UN都願意在2030年世界上這領域有17個不同的領域這領域包括在世界上有 gender equality等等我的工作是在拍攝這領域的17個我非常高興分享過這領域有能力這領域我們不僅僅僅僅能夠建立這領域的領域這領域是一領域的一領域的領域這領域這領域這領域我們常常看經濟經濟環境經濟社會有三種不同的工作在使用職業的領域他們能夠作出一領域在任何領域我們能夠作出一領域去勤奉其他168領域所以我們能夠作出一領域在任何領域他們會作出一領域其他人作出一領域所以他們是不合理的而是在自然的勤奉所以我們在職業工作作出一領域我常常看他們會作出一領域作為職業的領域例如1718領域這領域是職業的領域資訊1717領域這領域是職業的1716領域這領域是開放的這些領域是非常大的想法讓我給你們看你們可能會有些想法這是我的想法我的想法是在職業工作中國的教育學院已經開放了一年我們在下個星期就在職業工作所以在這領域職業的職業技術在職業工作是建造了超過100職業技術和職業技術例如這領域是由人類患者的患者和社交人員作為人類患者作為人類患者對於20年代這領域特別是他們的有趣的他們認為他們的語言我們在語言作為語言或你知道語言或其他技術他們認為他們的語言作為一個有趣的語言這領域作為他們的有趣的他們會進入社交平台他們會進入他們的有趣的或是他們的有趣的所以他們會進入他們的有趣的有很多有趣的有一個職業的有一個公廳有一個餐廳開放到11點每天包括假期還有作為人們說他們想社交平台就像我在社交平台每天都會在這裡所以每星期我 literally here從10點到10點其實昨天我到11點在合作中跟藝術師鄭樹立一部大紀念的項目我們做了一項一項一項79我就坐在床上在床上讓我學習我的語言是寫的還有35個人睡在我身上然後聽到我只要說一句之後就沒有理解結束然後我們都會睡在最後所以那是很難 for you我是最好從人們因為人們看在社交平台不是那些文化那些那些那些那些那些這件事是人們真的可以和他們合作的這件事是合作的好,所以...他們會做出這個計劃嗎?還是不?對,所以...一個人問問題一個人問問題我會解釋解釋和解釋所以這是一個規則在《數學院》的大學生這是一個新的問題兩年前的《數學院》是當初的大學生在1996年我已經15歲了然後我進入了《數學院》的第二年我發現了一件叫做《華爾威爾》的東西我跟學生說過《數學院》的主題我可以在《數學院》十多年前或者我可以參與《數學院》和學生的工作創造了知識會在《數學院》十多年後因為《數學院》人們在《數學院》寫了一篇《數學院》的主題我發現了我可以在《數學院》寫了14年我可以在《數學院》寫了起碼只有sighs我所遇的這是新聞《數學院》的主題我現在就直接寫了至少證明了第一天我要在《數學院》寫了 before將其他當然是我所好朋友結論物理人物理人物理人物置於《數學院》I'm working on digital innovationAnd so I joined this wonderfulInternate SocietyAnd the Royal Web ConsortiumAnd the early internet developersAnd we claim that we rejectThose and kings and presidentsWe only believe in rough consensusAnd running codeAnd this is an anarchistic way of governanceWell, do not scare peopleWe call it collaborative governanceBut that is the first political systemBut I learned that as the 15 years old五年前我會得到第一次投票和Larren Val representative democracy這對我來說好像很大型的研究和研究形式所以我從此為止我已經在15年內參加了一堆議題所有的議題甚至在民主黨中我發佈了一堆詳細詳細詳細在民主黨中所有人都會看到為什麼並非只是一堆政策參選者和監獄也就是說我不會給議題我不會給議題給任何人我不會給議題我不會給議題所有的議題我會給議題從每一個議題所以我會給34個議題我現在有22個但是他們的議題因為不同的議題是不同的議題所以我會給議題我會給議題我不會給議題我不會給議題最後是我會給議題我會給議題我會給議題我會給議題所以在社交平台上我們會介紹新的議題這是自動車當人們聽到自動車人們會自然地想 about drones想 about trucks想 about cars人們會很快他們會很危險我的議題是要介紹自動車的方式沒有那麼嚴肅這些是自動車他們開車 really slowly他們不會嚴肅如果他們跑到路上或是什麼的所以他們會來MIT Media Lab但是他們是開車開車的方式那些人可以適合他們的需要接下來是這是金箍花市每個星期人們只會跨在中間的大園去到金箍花市買很多花園或是什麼的所以當他們做到尤其是年輕時他們會變成像是年輕時年輕時當年他們變成更多花園的花園所以學生們設計了一間讓這些年輕人說實話只會跟年輕人跨在金箍花市他們可以買花園然後把那些東西放進去或是補充然後在結尾他們可以直接跨在一邊然後去到家裡所以這是一個很方便的工作那些人不一定會害怕任何人並不一定會失去工作或是什麼的所以這次開車 innovation會讓所有人學會了解一些事情關於烏龜花或是我們知道的或是開車的去改變例如這個藍燈藍燈這意味著這輛車這輛自行駕駛車是不確定的它的環境但人們想改變那種感情或改變像一隻狗或是一些會 instinctively把人們接近而變成一種 nonverbal意味著它們的內心情緒什麼的而這些我們稱為社會新興在於它們的我認為社會新興有改變這次開車的我所說的這是一個很好的問題而且這次開車這是一個很大的問題在我們目前的歷史上社會新興我確定你不代表社會新興在於五G和BandWiz因為我們仍然有很多這次開車人們社會新興在時間和關注社會新興社會新興在於我們現在的幾個小時我們現在的時間可以採用所以我們現在的時間可以採用很多不同的研究所以我現在有兩個回答第一個是所有的技術我們所介紹的是他們有一個很大的名字回到60年代他們叫com技術現在我們叫assisted或是appropriate技術但是是同樣的理想理想是技術必須在那裡讓人們更加專注於其他人更加專注在於在於在於例如slido是個很棒的例子因為人們在這裡就拿著攝影機知道我所說的但是我還可以採用我的注意給你人們更加採用你的手而且也很棒有很多學生因為現在的學生如果有兩小時的學生在四十分鐘之內或是他們會有想要的或者想要的在他們的手上你不能打敗那種秘訣已經非常好在他們的想法上所以我經常跟我們的學生一起跟slido同時跟他們最初的行動所以在那裡我基本上把他們的手跟他們的和他們的解釋所以他們還能夠享受他們的秘訣在想要的或在想要的或在想要的然後去到網站上你可以做鍵盤搜尋你可以做Instagram的搜尋你可以跟著大家如果你們開始直播你可以看直播是很棒的因為是無敵你把東西你把東西然後你看到什麼你會想但是Facebook也有另一個部分就是貴賣產品就是秘訣你開了秘訣你永遠都不知道他們會教你然後你喜歡什麼它它秘訣變成一個我會說貴賣但是他們說他是東西就更怕你我所以不過這沒有因為人愛臨對現在在DOM低積視這些其他的相是是在我所有的社交媒體和社交媒體上基本上是用Facebook,例如網絡所以我免費了Facebook的秘密因為我從Facebook上看不見任何東西從Facebook上看在電腦上,有很多不同的解決方式有Blocker、Ghostery還有很多不同的技術解決方式我確定,但重要的問題是如果我們只能有意見和解決方式我們可以自由自身自身的關鍵對於負擔性的負擔性負擔性的負擔性是在我們上載的而我沒有其他意見在Facebook上我認為是一個很好的方式以負擔性的方式和分享我們的想法但這個負擔性的負擔性是一件非常重要的事在社交媒體上是一件非常重要的事三位人們會想我解釋一下我的主題就是《霍 king democracy》霍 king has a well-defined meaningin computer scienceit means taking somethingthat is going in one directionand taking it to another directionlike a fork in the roadbut it doesn't negate what's already thereit just takes a copyand bring the copy to a different directionnow I understand this is very abstract as wellso I will again use an examplethe example as our moderatorhas already introducedis the idea of Cofzeronow all the government websitesand services in Taiwan ends in GOV.EWand I'm sure it's truein your country as wellit all ends in GOVthat's something or GOthat's something, right?and so the idea very simply putis thisif you see a government websiteor service that you don't likeinstead of protesting about ityou can create an alternative version of itand it's very simplethe legislative union for exampleis the OYthat's our parliamentthe environmental agencyEPAthe national budgetand so on and so forthyou get the ideabut if you don't likethis website or serviceif you think it's too top-downto a hierarchicalto expert orientedyou just create a shadow version of itby changing the O to a zeroand that's all it takesand so you don't have to buyadvertisementsyou don't have to put upyour protesting campaignsall it takesis a minis a virus of the mindthat tells peoplewhenever you see somethingin the government you don't likejust change in your browserthe O to a zeroand you get into the shadow governmentwhich works much betterrightright and so just last weekactuallywe announcedthe beginning of GOVZero.Italyso it's the same idearight we don't have atrade mark where it happensanyone around the worldcan register to zero with thatwhateverand they start the budgetGOVZero.Italyexactlythe inaugural projectof the GOVZeroand I adhere just this weekthat GOVZero.cais beingstartedas wellin Canadaso I'm sure it will spreadto more placesand so as I saidthe inaugural projectwhich is budgetGZero.Italy.National budgetis a visualizationof the national budgetwhich used to be 500 pagesof PDF filesthat nobody reallyunderstandsin its entiretyexcept for a few expertsand sobasically it makes the budgetrelatableit visualizes it in a lotof different waysso you can drill downto the part of the budgetthat you care likeso that the part of the budgetyou care maybe just oneof the 1300ministrial projectsbut maybe you just onlyonly really care aboutthat particular oneand for that oneit turns itselfinto a social objectthat is to saya link aroundwhich people can sayoh I want this budgetto be allocated moreI don't understand this budgetI want to cut this budgetor reduce it somehowand the interesting thing iswhen it's first proposedin 2012and the first projectof GOVZerobefore I joined in 2015it was such a good ideathat by the end of 2014a lot of mayorsdecided to adoptthis extra participatory budgetvisualization platformas they spreadto more than sixI think it's eight nowmunicipalityand cities in Taiwanto power differentpatriot budgeting platformsand by the year 2017I personally mergedthis forkinto our national development councilso that now if you go to jointhat GOVZerowhich is not GOVZeroanymoreyou can seevisualizationof all the1300 projectof the ministryand it works exactlylikethe GOVZerointroduced it in 2012for one differencethe only differenceis that this timearoundin all the1300 projectsif you publiclyask somethingthe public servicewould actuallyask the reviewso beforeit's a conversationamong the communitiesbut nowthe public servicecommits ourselvesto provide itsfinally answeredpubliclyon any part of the budgetyou don't have to go througha ministeror ameor acounseloranyone can justclose the public questionand for the public serviceto respond publiclyabout the budgetand so this is the forkin democracyand this is basicallythe ideaof a standby governmentit's like standby coffeeand when the governmentis readybecause the GOVZero peopleare relinquishedour copyrightthe government can merge itat any timethe GOVZero Serviceand so this is partnershipinitiatedby the social sectorthree people would like to knowwhat is the valueof knowing how to encodeand what is the bestway for someone to learnhow to codethis is a great questionso codeis lawas professor Lasziglikes to saybut maybeyou forgot to mentionit is not textual lawit is more like physical law因為在職位上,針對什麼是可能的,什麼是不可能的,什麼是傳遞的,什麼是不可能的,什麼是被拒絕的,什麼是被拒絕的,所以這些就像是一種失敗,除非我們當然可以做自己的事。所以,他們會追蹤我們,如果他們需要分辨,這就是分析之間的,針對法律和平衡,這就是我們的 legal code.一方面,我的 work as digital minister again,是要確保這兩種 normatility modes能傳遞 into one another seamlessly.我不會以為這是 an easy task,但我們也會更加努力.所以, good thing knowing how to code就像是 good thing about learning a little bit about your civic rights, learning a little bit about your process, learning a little bit about the rule of law. Not anyone need to be a lawmaker, but it is utmost importance in a democracy.If we have a lot of people knowing a little bit about their rights and about how the law works, this is of utmost importance. Otherwise, if we only have a handful of people who knows about law and everybody is ignorant, then we essentially have a dictatorship even though it is framed as a democracy because then it's up to these small number of people to interpret and apply the law.And it is the same with code.If everybody has a little bit of a familiarity of how computer works, the people stop saying things as a black box, as a mystique, but rather just like the paralegal profession, the civics teacher and things like that, when you need to learn something, you always know who else in the community to ask to, not everybody need to be constitutional court judges or lawmakers or system programmers, but everybody can get some familiarity of the extent of possibility that is law and code.What's the best way for someone to learn how to code?I coined a term more than 10 years ago that says optimize for fun, meaning that learning code should be motivated by a curiosity.For preschoolers and early primary school level, we have a great invention also from MIT called Scratch that lets them just put together like Lego bricks and they can very easily make things without even learning how to write.So this is great, this is good for children of all ages.And they don't have to start from a black canvas, so to speak.So they can start from some visual interactive musical exposition that is powered by code and just change one note in it, one color in it, one palette, one brush, and they see that code is something that's inherently in the commons, meaning that everybody can take something away, make their own version that without actually reducing the value from the original creator.That is to say it is not like a tangible asset, but rather it is like the commons that we can all share and it suffers from no tragedy of commons because when you fork something, it doesn't actually take the original thing away.And so this I think is both an artful intervention but also an important cultural and philosophical intervention and people learn how to code through things like Scratch.But of course for grownups, pure curiosity, I mean for me it still works, but for many other people, with their duties to the family for example, or their duties to the work, and things like that.And so code, if you want to optimize for fun, it need to first relieve you from some burden that you are currently suffering from life.And so I have a friend,Ling Dalit, who runs this Rails Girls workshop that teaches women how to code by code that it was them to look at one particular practical life issue and use code to make things better.And so if you have a special purpose and then specifically to solve that issue to deliver that purpose, actually it only takes a couple of weeks to achieve a single thing.But on the other hand, if you read about the internal vocabulary before even writing your first essay, that takes years of course.So one of the examples is that there was a young mother who attended Linda's classes and asked her what is the most pressing social obligation that currently troubles you.She said,I have a young kid and the child suffers from separation anxiety.Whenever the mother goes to the grocery store or somewhere nearby even just for a walk, the child just cries and no matter what other parent or caterers do, the child would not stop crying until the mother goes back home.And that is her current burden on the family.So she has to carry her child everywhere including through coding classes.And then Linda and her classmates devised a very simple device and it's just like an art installation.Actually maybe you saw it on elevatorand there's a clock there that's just LED screen.It's a very simple LED screen that displays five numbers.It's very simple hardware.And because the mother wears a Fitbit or something she checks the number of stepsand personally for personal health reasons.So that's perfectbecause it sends exactlyhow many steps she's takingfrom which direction.And so within two weeks she learnsto code a very simple Arduino systemof an hardwarethat shows exactlyhow many steps the mother is from home.And so the child can look at the screenand see that mom is exactlytwo hundred steps from home.two hundred steps,fifty stepsthirty steps,two stepsand then the door will openand magically it just curesthe child of separation anxiety.The child just learnshow to countdownand once the countdown finishesthe mother is guaranteedto appear in the doorand so that frees so much of her timeand she learns only two weeksof programming to get there.So once you have a pressing social purposeand you want to learn as a generalistof course that takes years of educationso my suggestioninto the second part of the questionis just to find somethingthat really troubles youand ask your coding friendshow their skill can make your life better.What do I think about cyber love?This is a questionthat I can spend hourstalking about.First of allI think cyber loveis one of the moreinteresting thingsthat peoplehere canrelate youbecause it reducesboth reducesand amplifies the humanityin each of us.I always usethis diagram to describethe bad old daysof confidence before the internetpeople willapply pressureto the minister of economyon one sideand the minister of environmenton the other sideor for examplethe minister of financial developmenton one sideand minister for social welfareon the other sideI can think of many other pairsbut the road hereis the career public serviceI have to somehow arbitrateand make something thatmake everybody not happybut atleast sacrifice an equal amountso this is the bad old daysand relationshipbefore a cyber space is like thatif you live in long distanceand have torely on very thin bandwidthto communicateit is a little bit like thatand the dynamic between the loverswill be constantly about one partythe place of the other partyand it's very very difficult to maintaina long distance relationshipjust as it was really really difficultto reconcile the activistsfrom the different campsbut now with the internetwe have the promisenot the full deliverythe promise of amore collaborative wayof policymakingand I'm sure about making as wellbut policymakingand the governmentbasically we don't askwho are the organizersand who make the judgmentswe don't ask those two questionsbecause rememberpeople don't need the ministersand councillors and MPsto organize anymorewas the right hashtaglike hashtag me toohundreds of thousand people just organizeout of nowhereso they don't need ministerswe cannot make one new ministryfor each hashtagwe're gonna break the governance systemand soinstead we askeven our very different positionsand stakesare there some common values after allso the SDGs the global goalsthese are 17 common valuesbut are there some common values after alland once we discoveredsome common valuescan we as the governmentsee the regulationsand see what are lookingthose values from truly realizingbecause otherwiseit's a coordination problemthings were aboutbecause it's in anot-shake equilibriumanyone moves it doesn't make things betterit only makes things betterwhen everybody coordinatesand moves togetherit is like crossfundingand so just by creating an open spacepeople can coordinateand move togetherinto a new betternot-shake equilibriumand that is the value of collaborative governanceand the value of the sandbox systemso to me severalare kind of like in thistransitional spaceit makes ofcoursethe relationship still meaningfuleven across distancesbut it also promptsofcourse a possibilityto be togetherwith breaking their relationshipsover long distancesso I see it as a transitioninto physical relationshipI don't see it as a goala ends terminal in itselfbut it does create a possibilityspace that is otherwise not thereand the lever will bein this positionwhich is a much worse positionthan previous onethree people would like to knowwhy is it still possiblein 2018oh yeah very much soactually the Internet Societythe ICANN, the IETFthe rule makersof the internetwhen I joinedwe don't call our output lawsby the way we call ourselvesthe output RFCsor requests for commentswere very unobusingso the request for comments were the physical lawsthat define the internetand the internet is impairedin the sense that everybody is free to participateor they are free to disconnectand the internet has no armyand no navyso we cannot force anyoneto join the internetbut people join it anywayand because they knowthat through radical transparencyand voluntary associationanyone who will think of anything on the internetthey can innovate without getting permissionthey are a stakeholder claimto be a stakeholderif they have an email addresseverybody can partake in the rule making policythe internet governance systemeven if they are just 14 years oldnobody knows they are 14 years old anywayand so that is the core promiseof the internetand today in 2018that is only reinforcedthe internet today has more sovereigntyso to speakcompared to 1996The United Nations Societystill reports to the economy ministryof the United Statesbut after this known incidentit became independentof the United Statesat that time there was a lot of pressurefor the United Nations ITUto absorb the internet governance systembut now the internet governance systemagree to a whole day internet governanceforeign every yearin conjunctionwith the UNITU in Geneva last yearfor examplewhich I participated through telepresenceI just drove a robotto the United Nations in Genevaand the robot just speakswith a live stream to video and audioand so the robotdoesn't need a passportso it's a logistical problem for usand thenfor all themeters of the UN secretariatthey are just watching a movieeven though the movie is recorded two seconds agoand so basicallythat is a really interesting wayfor us to participate in UN meetingsI've done that actually many many timesbut in UNHGFthat's live streamed sopeople know about itbut so far actuallypeople are generally finebecause I'm just talking about sustainabilitymovement goals through telepresenceand so people generally acceptedthat's the digital ministryso now you're talking with the analog versionand the digital ministryis usually digitalso the basicis that today the internetis still freetoday everybody can still join internet companiesthe internet as a sovereignit doesn't respond to either the statesor the united nationsso it is within ourfuture I thinkas early sacrifice participantsto keep things this wayand also to project the values of the early internetinto more areas of governancesix people would like to knowwhat do I think of the post-internet culturethis is a great questionthere was a new ideacalled Internet of Thingsthat is now a whole ideathat used to beginso the IOT says thatpeople are currently using the internetbut very soon ourrefrigeratorsmicrowave ovens and whateverare going to be the main users of the internetthey will talk among themselvesif your answering machineis out of capacityyour refrigerator will answer the callthings are supposed to connect togetherandpeople will enter a post-internet culturebecause the internet will be backto be handled by the thingsit would just to be so even in asocial environment of fabricit would stop thinking the internet as the internetand just enjoy this fullyautomatedloving careby all the machines whatevervisionwhich is very estopianactually from mypoint of view is one of the mostdangerous viewpoints aroundit has a nameand a nameyou might have heard of itthe idea is that the internet of thingswill accelerate so quicklythat it will grow in young humancomprehension and at the end of itwill just I don't knowoil in the matrixor something like thatit is a really really just building in the futurebut fortunately things don't have to be this waywe can actually learnwith the machines and have the machinesco-domesticated with usand this againI havelived with many companion animalsfor the recordlike with three dogs and seven catsI always use co-domesticationas an exampleso for example if we co-domesticatedwith these beingswe as humanity also learn somethinganthropologist and archaeologisttells us that we learnedhow to follow each other's gazehow tohere a wolf's cryand know it's not verbal state of mindand we learn how topoint and look with the dogswe actually learned from the early wolvesthe early hominidsco-evolve the social traitswith dogs basicallyand that enables usto become more socialand therefore more caring human beingsso there's something that we can learn togetherbut it's only if we phraseand frame these creatures in a waythat are participants in the societyrather than overlordsof the societyso I'm going to read you some poetrybecause two years agowhen I joined the cabinetthey asked me to write a job descriptionfor the official ministerI've never written job descriptions beforeand at the time I was in WellingtonI was talking to some Maori peoplethe Maori peoplemaybe some of you already knowculturally I think Taiwantheir ancestorsof the Austronesian culturebecause while at the west side of Taiwanthere's a lot of ethnican and western democraticsocietyon the eastern side there's a longer culture4,000 years or moreof Austronesian and 16indigenous nationsthat are asserting their rightsand their full sovereign alsoas we speak is called transitional justicebut there are the rootsand they sail all the wayto the seasactually to Madagascaron this side and to the eastand certainly their culturetheir language travel even widerall the way to the Maori peopleand so people were of Austronesian originthink Taiwanas the origin of their cultureso when I was thereand talking with the Maori peopleabout our shared rootsand their shared roots of Taiwanwell constitutionally in New Zealandbecause their constitution is really a treatybetween the western democracyand the Maori peoplethey allow for examplea river to assume personhoodthere's a river in New Zealandthat is now a legal personthey can sit in the boardof a chair and they canparticipate in corporate governanceof course it's representedor re-presentedby someone from the primesomeone from the Maori but what's important is thatexercise fully go rightand if you harm the riverit can actually sue for harmand this is actually somethingthat the Austronesian culture bringsto the sustainability discoursethat I think is very very cherishedand so when they ask meto organize a job descriptionI just followed in the style of Maori poetryand this is my job descriptionwhen we see the internet of thingslet's make it an internet of thingswhen we see virtual realitylet's make it a shared realitywhen we see machine learninglet's make it collaborative learningwhen we see user experiencelet's make it about human experiencewhatever we hearthat the singularity is newthat is always keeping in mindand always rememberthat the third reality is herethank you very muchone slider, one sliderjust reading and writing ashorter shorter like more than140 wordssensitive to arcadesI was wonderingwhat your thoughts are still onkind of conducting investigationsthat have a longertakes a longertimethat demands timeeither from the audience or the curatorthe writer toengageI tend to think longerprojectsfor example wikipediais one of the best known projectsbut there's many other projectslike the open street mapwhere people can just create that maptogetherand there's many many otherexampleswhat I tend to think about thoseinvestigations or thosewhat we call proudcollective intelligencespaces for lack of better termis that it kind ofpicks a life on its ownand I think that's what cyberspaceenables previouslypeople can organizemaybe very effectivelyaround 150 peoplearound ourtribalthat is a hard limitin the wetlandbut other than those 150 peopleof course if you have hierarchiesyou can command peopleand build pyramids or somethingbut even that hierarchical structurehas its limits so that's about a number of peoplewho can coordinate togetherto embark on evencrossgenerational projectsthere was a limit in thatbut now because we structure wikipediaand we structure open street mapand we structure where the internet itselfthe wireless itselfin such a way that everybody can onlyhave and not take awaythat people can contributebut not deleteand in for example the distributedthe code itselfinsured that you cannot take anything awayand so in a purely additiveenvironment I think people's sense ofmind changesbecause people want tocreate the short form from the long formmostly becausethe time is seen as a scarceresourceand that's anything that's tangiblecoros with timeand these are kind of the two invariancethat we're working with as materialsin the space timebut now in sacred spacenone of these two actually holdsit doesn't be great over timeit only grows over timethat's the first thingthe short form and the long formis hyperlinked togethera long form wikipedia articleis actually a linkbetween many many many small editsand so anything that'sgenerational as long asthe sustainability promisethat is to say we don't burn throughmore than one us yetas long as we hold to that promiseour next generation would actuallyhave a lot more to createwith instead of to createfrom and that is a veryvery different positioncompared to the previous generationsnow I understandactually copyright and things like thatactually makes this kind of partbecause we have to wait a really long timebefore you can use somethingwhich is why in wikipedia and other placeswe use what we call creative commonsor a cc to shareour copyright so that people canright now instead ofwaiting for a mean to diefor another 50 or 70 yearsand so I think this time frameis kind ofit's unknown if you justshare your copyright immediatelybut at moment it's a littlesegmented if you have to followthe normal copyright rules and that isthe normal copyright rules that reducesone to one's lifespan plusa number of years and within thislimited time that people would separatethe short attention span formsand the long attention span formsthere really is no difference becauseall my work is in the public domainI really wish my rightas soon as I finish creating itso there's no I in itand it is basically I becomea part of the crowd that is part ofthe collective intelligence and that to meis a truly alternativebut it is mywe have time for one more questionthere's a microphone underneath your seatkind of likeand press this microphoneonce you can speak into itremember to turn it offagain after the finishask me the questionand stay seatedbecause it's not long enoughI'm going to stand nowHi, thank youyou're welcomethis is my lawyerand I'm sorryI'm glad that I'm heremy name is Mir and I'm really gladI'm just wonderingwhat you think the role ofthe domesticated and wild animalsmight be in the virtual worldwhat's themaybe they might be any kindof role orwhat wouldhow would animalsbe kind of virtualkind of likewhat's the role of domestic animalsin our futurethat's a great questionyou justoffer your thoughts aboutthe various manipulationsof the internetthe goals of censorshipdisinformationracismthat are very current todayand throughout the worldI can easily spend another two hourstalking about these two subjectsbut let me just bereally really briefand this information one is the easy oneso I will answer that bestand the domestic animal oneis kindof the really reallyphilosophically interesting oneso I will answer nextthe disinformation oneis really easy actuallyto solvethe idea very simply putis to holdspaces around whichthat people can have a meaningful conversationin a way that onlycannot subtract anything in a wayso for example in Taiwanwe regularly use AI powerconversation called POTUSthis is entirely open sourceand we started using it in 2015when UberX firstoperates in Taiwanbut we now reduce it regularlyfor all kind of emerging issuesand so in this designyou're in the middle when you enterand you see all your different facebookand twitter friends in different positionsand you can move among yourpeoplebut the important thing hereis that you see people with different positionsnot as nameless baseless enemiesthey are in fact your friends and familiesmaybe you just didn't talk about this public issue over therethat's the first contributionand the second oneis that we crowdsource the factsthe evidences so when we call open datait's not just open government datait's open citizen science data as welland so given the factswe dedicate amongst at least 3 weeksto feelingsand this AI powerconversation asksnothing except what do you feelabout itwe ask people to begin their statementswhich means i feel thati feel somethingand there's no right or wrong in feelingsaround the same factyou can feel doubtful, i can feel happyand it's all okayit's only when we set asideone period for feelingi want to take care of the most people's feelingsand then we make decisionsand so it works in practice like thisyou get a linkand then you see yourself hereyou see a fellow citizen and their feelingsand you can resonate or not resonatewith their feelingsand as you do soyour position will movebut then as you can seethere is no reply buttonin all the platformsthat i introduce join the GOVthe slider we use todayin the whole system hereif there's one thing in commonthere is no reply buttonbecause if we see a reply buttonpeople actually attack each otherthey take away from each other's credibilitythey post cat picturesand that's the better partthey post other pictures as welland in any case it attracts from the conversationbut if you don't have a reply buttonafter clicking agree or disagree for a few timesyou will be motivatedinto thinking somethingthat people can't resonate withso people are still competitivein a sensebut they compete to bring eclecticnewest statementsthat everybody across the aislecan't resonate withand so at the end of itwe always see this shapethis is the experiment they didin falling green assemblyin the US but we also see the same shape in Taiwanit is a fakeperceptionof polarizationbut that is actually no trueit is a illusionthat is created by attention-cravingmedia outletsespecially on thesocial media but also on mainstream mediaso there is an incentiveto only talk about this five thingsbut when we run a feelingcollection consultations like thispeople spend far more energyactually learningthat no matter their partiesno matter their ideological predicationor whateverthey actually all agree on a lot of thingsand then we just use theseas the policy making guidegoing forwardand so the answer to your questionis very simpleis that if we can regularly show the whyand everyday work that I doif you can just meet me every Wednesdayin my office hourif you have a friend that you meet firstwill be your dinnerand a couple times a weekif you hear about that friendyou will not actually share itwe will check with that friendand it is only when we getso separatedthat we don't have an openand radically transparent relationshipdo that this information have room to growand this the way to check our feelingsare like inoculationthat makes those so called viral ideasis less fire and more nuanced formthat gets everybody into the habitof listening to each other's feelingsand so this is the answerto your questionthe short answer anywayand about domestic animalsand animals' rolethis is a fascinating questionso I actually workin virtual realityto do consultationsso for example even after I becomethe digital ministerI work with the Hangzhou Academy of Artsand EmotionGraduate Institute of Artswe 3D modeled their classroomsput it togetherupload it to virtual realityinto a data center in Zhanghuaand I'm in Taipeiwearing a virtual reality classand the end resultis that people in the three placeswhere we put on goggles was open for everybodyso when we put on the VR gogglesthe empty chairssuddenly use these students from the other classroombearing on those empty chairswe can have a real conversationthe skills as a thousands of people togetherin virtual realityand I try this experiment evenwith primary school childrenand when we talk about for exampletheir playground and things like thatmy avatar is at the same heightas the primary school childrenand so they see me as someonethey can relate, they don't have to look up to methey can just relate meas one of theirtheir little primary school childrenbeings and I thinkthis is really one of the morepromising way to talk aboutanimals and their role in the environmentif we talk about endangeredanimals in the constructionit helps everybody if we can puton VR and it must alsofrom the experienceof a protected animal in that regionwhen we do a parkit helps to have atleastsome people experiencea time as a stray dogin that region and things like thatso when we talk about empathywe're really talking aboutstepping into each other's shoesor feet or whatever or firstbut in a way that is truly immersiveand that accurately portraythe lived in experiencethey embody the experienceof that fellow beingand so that is my short answerit's getting harder when we talk abouta river, a soul of a riverbut even that we're working on that as wellso if you're interested in thatparticular line of researchwe actually have a lot of artistsat the moment working with my officein Madridof all placeswhat we call holo poliswhich at theopen source conversationinterface I introduce is calledpolis and this is called holo polisand holo polisis explicitly bringingthe possibilities that extendthe immersive experiencefrom animals and bugsmix reality into thepossible realm of immersiveconsultations and deliberationand if you're interestedI'm very happy to work with anyfilmmakers, choreographersanyone who can immerse ourselvesfrom the viewpoint of an animalwhen we talk about public constructionso thank you for the great question我必須要很殘忍今天的角色今天真的是非常謝謝唐副政委非常非常精彩的演講他的創新遠遠不絕我相信我們大家的疑問也會遠遠不絕但是作為主持人我們必須要在這裡宣告我們這一個嘗試必須結束非常非常感謝大家的參與也非常感謝唐副政委非常非常精彩非常豐富那我們是不是最後也對熱烈的掌聲回來感謝唐副政委的今天謝謝我們在酒店可以喝10分鐘