 Our next session is staying relevant in a hyper competitive media landscape is the industry doing enough and our speaker is Norm Johnston, he's the global CEO of Fast, Global Chief Digital Officer Mindshare Worldwide. He has been involved in interactive marketing since graduating from Chicago's Northwestern University in 1988. After completing his MBA from Duke University in 1995, Norm joined the country's first digital agency modem media which revolutionized the advertising industry by placing the first banner ad on the internet. He joined Mindshare in 2007 as CEO and in 2008 he was promoted to a broader global responsibility and currently manages over 2,000 digital staff in 115 cities around the world. Ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together to welcome Norm Johnston on stage please. They've taken all the chairs away. Yeah, we'll make sure we get them back. Check. All right, Norm. All right. Welcome. Thank you. This is on behest of Norm that I'm joining over here, if I may. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm good. I love coming to India. It's a short trip, but I live in London. I'm American, but I live in London and I've been there for about 20 years and we've got a lot of really good Indian food in London, which we eat quite often, but it's not as spicy as the food here. So I had lunch here and I can't feel my tongue. It's been about an hour. My tongue is still numb, but the food was great. Yeah, we have a little spicy food in India. We like it. So we're not even apologetic about it, right, Mr. Sori? We don't really apologize for Indian food, but I'm glad you're enjoying your stay here. And is there anything you would like to say to the audience here before we start off with the interrogation that we have? Okay, all right. Sounds good. It's good. So do you have a few words for them? Well, about what? What do you want me to... About anything? Because I have my questions ready for you, so... Well, you know, it's funny. I've been in digital since pretty much day one, and I think it's just an extraordinarily exciting time. And it's funny because when I go to different markets, they're kind of in different spectrums in the kind of digital revolution, but I think we're about to go through what I call the third wave of digital disruption. And first being the desktop, second being mobile, which you guys know about very well. And the third is the Internet of Things, which I think is going to be a massive change to what we can do in the marketing world. And that's scary for a lot of people, but really, really quite exciting for me. And you could see that change in the way that we interact with technology, the intelligence through AI, the immersive nature in things like augmented reality. So I don't know, it's a great time to be in the business. And IoT is something that has been spoken about across all industries, actually. And well, I would love to know how it affects the digital marketing scene as well. But I'm sure a lot of people have questions here, but we've had picked a few from really prominent marketers. We're going to have the questions on screen for your benefit as well, with the names of the people who have asked them. So I'm going to dive right into it now. Our first question is, how does a brand ensure that the user experience is consistent and positive throughout the digital transformation journey of the brand? And yeah, as you can see, we have the question by Shruti Salvi, Assistant General Manager Marketing, Merck Electronics Limited. So, well, it's, I think, as I mentioned, the second wave of digital disruption around mobile has been, it's been a really interesting thing to see that unfold over the last couple of years. And I think the challenge that we have with a lot of companies is that they often still think TV first, particularly the creative agencies. And it's interesting that a lot of clients now bring media agencies at the very beginning of the process versus bringing us in a little bit later because we beat up the creative agencies quite a bit. And simple things such as if you are creating a quote unquote TV spot, make sure it's built for mobile. Think about vertical formats, think about sound that's off. Think about the broader experience and ensure you connect it all together. And as we go through this third wave of digital disruption, that challenge becomes even greater as we see brands begin to develop utilities and experiences using things like the Internet of Things technology. And I think a lot of the creative agencies really struggle with that. They not only struggle with mobile, they're now really struggling with this notion of having to develop much deeper embedded experiences. And hence, you see the emergence of the excentures of the world and these companies that have really deep technical experience that can build those sorts of ecosystems. But of course, what they lack is the creative. They can bring the functional element but not the emotive element. And so it's got to be complicated if you're a client sitting there thinking, okay, I need something that's emotive, it's creative, it changes opinions and shifts perceptions of the brand at the same time I need technical chops as well. The one advantage of the Internet of Things is that it brings a lot of data. And I do think the companies that do very well with this, and this is I think another shifted mindset, because when your consumers look at you, they're thinking about Uber and Amazon and Tesla and Apple and they're not. So their benchmark is much higher in terms of the overall experience that they're gonna have. And those companies are extraordinarily good at taking data and using data to inform what they do. Whether that's content, whether that's using it for media purposes or to refine or iterate on top of the existing assets that they've got. And so I think clients also have to get much better at data and using that data to really try to find insight and then adapt very quickly. You mentioned the big names over there and we all know how, I mean they use their data for influencing the choices you make online. But are you saying that these processes can only be implemented by the big guys or even small businesses that think of doing it can in some way manage that data? No, the notion of big data to me is a bit of a fallacy. I mean, of course having lots of data that you can use because it's statistically significant is a benefit. But sometimes you're taking little singular pieces of data and using that to create better experiences. One example is Orbitz, which is a Swedish travel company. They have an app. So if you fly to Mumbai and you're looking for a hotel, they'll use one singular piece of data to refine the experience that they're going to give you. So how many people in the room are Android users? A few of you, how many are Apple OS users? How many Blackberry users? There's always one. There's gotta be one Blackberry user out there, there's always one. You can type fast, that's nothing wrong with it. Well, what Orbitz does is they'll take a look at your operating system. So if you're an Android user, they'll suggest a Holiday Inn. And if you're an Apple OS user, they'll suggest the Four Seasons. Because they know that Apple users tend to spend $40, $50 more on a hotel booking than a non-Apple user. So sometimes singular pieces of data, it could be weather data. It has a huge impact. We know that, for example, when it rains, you're likely to pay 56% more on a gym membership than not. So we have all these little statistical pieces of data that we can use to refine experiences, including media. All right, a second question is, what can publishers and agencies do to battle the emerging trust issues in view of bots driving up impressions and Russia interfering in US elections? And this question comes to us from Apoorva Chamaria, Vice President and head corporate marketing at CL. That's a political one, isn't it? I suspect the US probably does similar sorts of things. So I don't want to judge Russia on that. But it's been a difficult year, and I've been a digital, as I said, since day one. So a lot of these issues have been around for a long time. We've always had brand safety issues. We've always had issues with ad fraud. I think the big difference this year is that the digital budgets are now huge. So you go to the UK, over 50% of spend is now on digital. The number's about 35% globally. That'll go to nearly 50% by 2020. So it's big enough now that when these things happen and when you have on the front page of a newspaper, an example of a big brand next to some ISIS content on YouTube, the CEO of the company sees it and the CMO sees it. So it's become a board level issue. And brand safety, for example, the analogy that I use with that, it's like doping at the Olympics. You're never gonna get rid of it. Someone's always gonna come up with another way to dope. The question is how do you mitigate it and try to reduce it to the point where it's nearly non-existent? And my sense is that Google and others took their eye off the ball. If you're Google, you can imagine you're sitting there as a brilliant engineer, and you're given the choice of developing autonomous cars and life and perpetuity or trying to prevent brand issues on YouTube. You probably wanna go do the autonomous cars. So I think they took their eye off the ball. We've had to work really hard this year to make sure that they put some more rigor and discipline in all those brilliant algorithms into ensuring that these things are minimized. They'll never be completely gone. And I think the same thing with transparency and verification. We particularly as group them have been relentless with them that they can't grade their own homework. It's just silly for them to think that they can generate a report and give it to a client and the client should just roll over and say, okay, great. And I can tell you with every analysis I've ever seen with Google that goes to a client, the answer is always spend more money on search, spend more money on YouTube, spend more money on DBM. And of course, people don't live that way. They read newspapers and they go to other websites and apps and so on and so forth. So we've worked very hard this year to pressure them into third party verification so we can get some objective data and what's happening. And surprise, when you get that information, it tells you different things that leads you to different decisions either on media investment or when it comes to video, for example. We know the average video duration time on Facebook is a lot less than we thought it was. Well, that could simply change the way that you create video assets for Facebook. You know that you only have about two seconds, three seconds to make an impact on somebody. So we're not touching on the political bit at all about how- I'm not going there, no. Fair enough. It's not my question, so I'm kind of okay with that. I'm sure I've got some clients that are Trump fans. I'm not going to go there. We can take it offline and maybe- We'll take it offline. I'll have a drink with any of you to talk about it later. Yeah, then we can have that conversation. Our next question is from Shantanu Gangane, head marketing view India. It asks, rather, digital marketing is the new buzzword. You see young talent enhancing their skill set in digital marketing. Spend on digital marketing are increasing, but as we move ahead, do you see digital marketing getting automated? Are AI and automation going to replace the role of a digital market here? Well, you can't avoid it. I mean, the reality is it's, and you're foolish to think you can disregard it because if you do, your competition will leverage AI technology. And the reality is there are parts of our business that are very mundane and that should be done, that either should be automated or we should apply artificial intelligence. So when you look at programmatic media, for example, and we're doing quite a bit of that, there are elements of that where we're now actively using things like IBM's Watson technology to identify patterns, which it does very well. But it's not binary. I think there's still, effectively, when you're going to programmatic, you're kind of going from like a Fiat to a Ferrari. It's a much more sophisticated engine to drive. And while AI is incredibly important for that, you also need people that, the people that can drive a Fiat are very different than the people that are Formula One drivers. You need more advanced people to that understand the data and can make sense of that and look at it and drive the vehicle, if you will. And I also think that it's not binary in the sense that as good as AI is, and it can do a lot of things, particularly with machine learning, looking for patterns, it doesn't come up with brilliant ideas. And it's not creative, and there's still a large amount of room in our industry, as our team here does in India. They just won a Grand Prix at Cannes last year, and AI doesn't come up with that. That's a brilliant idea. So you still need that. I think where the impact will be felt more is that our job from a media perspective, which has historically been trying to convince you to do something. We're sending you some sort of message to try to convince you. It's very explicit. Our job will increasingly be implicit communication to AI. To try to convince AI. So once you've got Siri, Cortana, Alexa, in your house or in your car, and you're asking those artificial intelligence, those bots, if you will, for the best recipe, for the best product, for the best hotel in Mumbai, or the best car, whatever, we've got to figure out a way of convincing those AI's to recommend our clients to you. So in a way, our job is increasingly around implicit communication to AI. To get into that algorithm, whether through paid means or through organic means, to convince them to make those sorts of recommendations. And that's incredibly complicated. If you talk to Amazon around how Alexa makes decisions, it's not a simple answer. I mean, it's based on product reviews, historical purchase, Bing search results. So there's a whole host of things in there that we need to kind of crack the code on that, because increasingly, that's where you will look to, to buy things and get answers to certain things. All right. It's interesting you mentioned Amazon and Alexa, because I'm part of their marketing campaign, so that's something I don't understand. I didn't realize that. Do you like Alexa? Well, they let me use it. You kind of have to say you do, don't you? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. It's kind of cool. She's great. Well, let me just go, because it is amazing what they have done. I was talking about, I heard the innovation panel a little bit earlier. This is a company that, did anybody buy the fire phone here? Exactly. I mean, you couldn't give those things away. I think they're selling them for like a dollar on eBay at the moment. And they have just relentlessly innovated and they have just, I think, knocked it out of the park over the last year with, who has Echo here? Does anybody have an Echo? I mean, it's a real game changer when you get it. It completely fundamentally changes the way that you interact with technology. And if you're Google, you have to be a little bit frightened by it, because it totally disrupts the search model. With voice search, there's one answer that comes along versus with Google. Obviously, what they want is a bunch of paid advertising. And so I think they've done a phenomenal job, I think. No one's paying me to say that. I really mean that. I think it's cool. I just tried it once. I think it's cool. That's all I'll say. I won't do any more marketing for that. Our next question is from Anish Advani, head marketing and public relations. Mahindra Special Services Group. And his question is, how can brands humanize digital engagements? Kind of rubs off from where we left. Yeah, I don't know. This is kind of a strange question because I think on one hand, digital can be used to tell stories. I mean, you saw some examples from FCB a little bit earlier. I mean, it's not as if it's all functional. It's just buying stuff and utilities. I mean, there's some fantastic examples in the industry of using it to tell genuine stories and obviously with Twitter and YouTube of changing governments and doing things that are quite critical. So to me, I think there's a human element that's embedded into it. The interesting bit will be how the internet changes over the next few years as it becomes much more immersive. Particularly things with augmented reality. And my sense is that increasingly the internet will come out of your mobile phone and come into the real world. So I don't know who's experienced augmented reality. But if you look at any of the projections over the next five years, the debate is between AR and VR. The VR people hate the AR people and the AR people. I mean, literally they get in fistfights. I think at conferences, they hate each other so much. But it looks like AR will be the dominant format. And if you listen to Facebook or Apple, who we know, by the way, who are developing Apple glasses with augmented reality in it, we only know that because they had to file an employee accident report into the federal government, the US. And in that report, there was a woman that had an accident with the Apple glasses. So we know that's the only reason we know it. So I think you'll find an element of the internet experience changing quite significantly over the next few years into AR either through the phone or through things like Glasses, maybe Google Glass 2 or Google Goggles 2 will come out. And that will be interesting. When you have augmented reality and you're looking to buy a house and you can have an augmented person from the bank helping you look at different houses in real estate, I think there'll be an opportunity to humanize the internet even more but in a slightly different way than we've thought of in the past. If I could maybe move a little backwards with that Google Glass 1. I mean, has there been that kind of impact with the Google Glass that you're talking about that maybe? No, because it sucked. Did anybody try it? I mean, it was really bad. I was just wondering the same thing. Did anyone try the Google Glass? I only saw it on YouTube. Oh, you didn't miss anything. It really sucked. They've invested about $500 million into a company called Magic Leap. Has anybody heard of Magic Leap? So if you haven't heard of it, go check it online on YouTube, which it hasn't come out yet. It's a company down in Florida and they have what they call mixed reality. So it's kind of augmented reality, but even better. And my suspicion would be that if they come out with another iteration, what you see with Magic Leap will be what you see through the glasses. But I think my sense is augmented will be the next big thing. And you look at the combined AR, VR market, it's supposed to be bigger than television by the year 2020 in terms of the different devices that will be sold related to AR, VR technology. So it's something to keep an eye on. I was just going to ask you that. That was going to be my next follow-up question of when do you see this happening? But if you're saying 2020... Well, I say these things and then I have to remember that, you know, when you're in Silicon Valley, there's one thing going on and then when you go to Ohio, there's another thing altogether. So these things happen at different stages around the world. It depends on the infrastructure that's out there. But the one thing to look at is China as well. China is phenomenal with innovation. And Singles Day, which happens November 11th, 1111. If you want to check out one day where you're going to see some really superb innovation, I would look at that day. And last year, Alibaba did a whole virtual reality shopping experience. Chinese love to go shop abroad. They love to come to London, New York, and they did a complete VR shopping experience with Macy's in New York. And it's unbelievable. So you could literally from your house in China go shopping in different countries. So I would look at that day as if you want to pick one day in the calendar to look at innovation, pick that day. All right, we look forward to that. We move on to our next question, which is from Karan Kumar, head brand and marketing fab India. And his question is, can there ever be one true measure to appraise the digital and social media platform performance or is that a wild goose chase that marketers have committed themselves to? Wow, that's an interesting question. That's a good question. Yeah, it's funny because I do remember the days of you may still get this. I still see it around the world of, we got to get this many likes and this many shares and you would end up sitting in these media juries and you would see case study after case study, we got this many likes and that many likes. And I'm like, I have no idea what that actually means anymore. It becomes meaningless. And I think we've got, at least when it comes to social now, a much better sense as to what the actual impact of a like is and the reality is it's not that impactful. Most people that like a brand, for example, or probably people that are going to buy that brand anyway. Where the impact comes from is a friend sharing something to you that is we know that has an influence on your perception of the brand and propensity to buy something. But the metric thing has been around forever. And part of the challenge of being in digital is we can measure so much. And people think, well, TV is so easy to measure and you can look at Barb in the UK, the other television-related metric systems. And they're really basic and they're full of flaws and you don't know if someone's gone off to the refrigerator to get a beer. But yet in digital, because we have so much data, the more data you get, the more you try to dig into it. I will say, I think we're getting much better at two things. One is linking digital exposure into actual sales. So whether that's the Cantor panel in the US or a different panel, we've got a much better ability now to track whether it's actually shifted product off of a shelf or through dealership. Amazon in particular, and this is why you saw the results today. I mean, there now is possibly a triopoly. We've got Google, Facebook, and now Amazon coming up as one of the third, key third players in the digital advertising space. And the reason they're doing so well is just because of the proximity to buy, that collapse between brand and demand and the ability to see something and then very rapidly go by. And of course, they're uniquely positioned to go ahead and do that. And I also think we're getting much better at attribution overall. So an understanding of a couple of years ago, Google would take all the credit for everything that was ever done online. And now we know actually no exposure of an ad, a video ad, or display ad elsewhere does count to that overall purchase. Or the fact that there's more than digital, that we know that television has an impact or print hasn't it. We can see the correlation between running ads in a newspaper or television with some increase in activity online. So you can use that as a proxy metric to assess the performance of how you're doing in your overall media. We have an example in the UK, Kimberly Clark, one of our big clients, where they actually adapt the television campaigns based on the digital data. They'll look at flu-related searches on Google and identify geolocate areas in the UK where there's about to be an outbreak of flu and adapt the Kleenex ads. They will increase the Kleenex ads in Wolverhampton and decrease them in Liverpool. So I think it's not only just getting better within the metrics in digital and more sophistication around things like social, but also in understanding how we can use some of those proxy metrics to improve your overall performance. Having said that, I guarantee there will be another like next year. There will be another thing that will come up and everybody will chase the new shiny object and clamor all over it. So you can't really stop it. So I think we can sum that up as saying that there is no one specific measure, but you can see a relatability between the digital exposure and the sales that are eventually getting made now. Well, the ultimate metric for us will vary. It's the outcome that you want. What I will say is that even for those clients that have been traditionally very brand focused around shifting your perception of the brand or whatever the metric may be, they're now much more focused on the ultimate outcome on purchase and they have the ability now to do that through better attribution. So there's no hiding anymore. You really have to the data is there to scrutinize what's working and what's not really working. So you know what's working with the amount of purchases being made. That is the final say. Well, I think for anybody. Yeah, if it's not moving the business, then you got a problem. Yeah. OK. The sixth question that we have here is from Amit Tiwari, VP Marketing at Havels. How will AI and chatbots change the landscape of media agencies and how prepared are we for that? Well, you know, we kind of covered that one a little bit earlier. I mean, I will say the the one thing that we're seeing right now is the is kind of related to AI's voice back to Alexa again. I won't hammer on about Alexa too much. But the shift in the number of people, particularly millennials that are comfortable talking to Alexa and to a device, I don't know about you, but I don't do a lot of voice searches. I feel like a bit of an idiot when I put my phone on talk. Who's done a voice search or anybody right? A few of you. OK, well, that's good, because I feel like an idiot when I do it. But when you look in the US, 40 percent of smartphone searches are done by voice. That's number goes up to about 50, 56 percent with millennials. Two thirds of all search will be done by voice by by 2020. So there's a huge shift in the way that people are interacting with the technology. When you look at the 52 billion objects, it will be connected to the Internet by 2020 cars and fridges and all that. Only five percent of them will have a keyboard. So in most cases, you're going to talk to Alexa or Cortana or Google to get something done. And that has a huge change on a lot of things. One is the creative experiences. You know, when people are not swiping and typing, how do you create a, you know, we did a Amazon Echo skill for Helmens in the US, which is a mayonnaise for recipes. So it's a completely different way of thinking about the experience because it's all voice interaction. It changes the way you optimize for search. And not many people do this right now. They still think of search keywords as text keywords. Natural language queries are much longer. You need to think about your own voice. And I always laugh because honest to God in this industry, there are always three categories, verticals that lead every innovation when it comes to digital. It's usually gaming, poker. It's usually pornography. And the third one's pizza. And I'm only going to talk about one of them today, but everything that's happened is, you know, a video streaming, click to call, you name it happens there. And when you look at Domino's Pizza, for example, in the US, their app that's on the phone is all voice interaction. It's called DOM. When you open up the app, you can talk to DOM, you can order pizza through DOM. And what they've done, getting back to the first point, is they've done a phenomenal job of integrating themselves into this holistic experience. When you order a Domino's Pizza and you connect it into your Nest system, it automatically turns off the sprinkler when the deliveryman arrives. It automatically rings the doorbell to alert you that the pizza's there. And I think you're going to see a lot more of that. And it's kind of turning the whole model upside down because in a world where we're so busy, we have so many things going on. I don't know about you, but like every time somebody says, so you have to watch a program on Netflix, I kind of groan because I think, oh my God, I got to add that to the list of 70 other programs that people tell me to watch. And then it's great when you watch the first episode and you don't like it. It's almost a relief, like oh my God, I don't have to worry about the other 20 episodes. So in a world where we have less attention span and more things going on, companies like Domino's who just do things for you, they make it easier. So whether that's your coffee machine, automatically reordering capsules for you or your washing machine, automatically reordering personal or whatever the case may be, I think those are the companies that will be most valuable. That will be the ultimate advertising in the sense of the brands that you talk about will be the ones that just less clutter and more helpful things to let you get on with your life. I understood. I will throw this discussion open to the audience if they have a question for Norm here. Making, oh, sure. You sit at a table where you see what clients and especially global clients are doing in the US, UK, Europe. When you look at India, what is your forecast for the next three, five years, purely in terms of digital spends as a percentage? Where it will be? It's at eight, 10% now. Will it be like US, 28% or will it be like UK, 45%? You know, I don't, I don't, I should know the answer to that, I don't know. I'm sure it's going up. And you know, the question that I got a little bit earlier, I was doing an interview, was has digital dropped because of all the issues around brand safety? It has not dropped. I mean, I think there's been a period of pause and reflection and cleaning it all up. But it's irreversible in the sense of everything's simply becoming more digital and people are spending more time with digital. If you look at, I don't know about India, but if you look at linear TV viewing in the US has gone down by 10 hours on a weekly basis with, particularly with millennials. It's not to say that people are not reading quote unquote newspapers or watching more TV, they are. They're just not necessarily doing the ways that we did growing up. So there's a migration and I think for, for publishers, you know, it's funny because when I do these media juries we'll have the best newspaper of the year. And I look at that category and it's funny because everybody does a three minute video for what, you know, their little pitch for why they're the best newspaper of the year. And typically about 30 seconds of the video is about the actual newspaper and the other two and a half minutes about what they're doing in mobile and what they're doing in iPad and what they're doing. So you've got the shift from companies that are known for a device or a format into actually companies that are just creating really good content, really compelling content. And the consumption of that content can happen in many different ways, but increasingly I think it is happening in digital. So I don't know the number specifically in India I just got in last night, I should have looked it up, but I do know, as I said, it's about 35% globally right now. It'll be 46% by 2020. And you may think it's not gonna happen. I've been doing, I remember when I started in 1995, digital was 0.005%. It's irreversible, it will keep growing. And we've got 40% of TVs in the US are now connected to digital. You look at the over the top services with Netflix and Amazon, which are increasing. Bizarrely in the US right now, this is people are cutting the cords on the cable. They're getting rid of the cable. And there's this new trend with Gen Z who get their TV sets. They basically use Netflix or they'll get the Amazon Prime or they'll get Apple TV to watch all their content. But every once in a while there's a sporting event that comes along that they can only get through linear TV. So they're buying antennas, old fashioned rabbit ears and putting it on their TV. And tennis sales in the US have gone up dramatically. Now the question is the moment the cricket and the moment the World Cup and the moment the Olympics get bought by Amazon, game over. I mean, linear TV will subside, at least in the US, I don't know about here. And Amazon will pay a lot of money for that because the only thing they care about is you subscribing to Amazon Prime because once you subscribe to Amazon Prime you'll buy twice as much on Amazon if not three times as much, according to McKinsey. That's the only thing they care, they don't care about the advertising, they don't care about anything else. So once those rights come up which they will happen over the next 10 years, look for Apple to buy them, Google to buy them, Amazon to buy them. They can buy them globally if they want to and they've got the pockets to do it. And that will be the moment when linear TV which frankly most countries right now is only there for live events. That will be the moment when there'll be issues. All right. Yeah. Would you be able to sort of throw some light on that? Is it? Yeah, it goes back to the- Probably because of safety issues. Yeah, but if you listen to what Mark Pritchard says very carefully, he's not abandoning digital. No, he is not. I think, and you know, I can tell you that you can spend a lot of money on digital and you can waste a lot of money if you want. And that does happen. From our perspective, whatever we invest, we hammer home third party verification. We will not pay for the impressions unless they're fully viewable and our standard is 100% versus IAB which is 50. We beat them up on brand safety. So we're fairly certain that the money that we invest in digital is wisely applied and is being seen. But not every company does that. And I think probably what happened with P&G, I don't know who does the media, but somebody took a step back and said what in the world is going on here? And they were probably wasting a lot of money on digital. But if you listen to Mark Pritchard, it doesn't mean they're gonna kill it or eventually it will be brought back. It'll just be brought back in a highly disciplined way. Yeah, I had a question. One of the tensions I see is between agencies and marketers. Is this discussion about scale? So typically some of the hardcore digital concepts like content marketing or influencer marketing, especially influencers because nowadays we see things like micro influencers. When these ideas get presented to the clients, clients often the common question is can we scale this? Yeah. Often initially in the digital programs it becomes a problem because you need to seed the idea, grow the idea before it can be scaled. So do you see this kind of tension reducing? I mean, will the clients move towards appreciating micro experiences or do you feel agencies will have to keep looking for scaling options before they get the adoption of the idea? Well, I think it depends on the way that you look at it because when we look at innovation opportunities, that is one of the criteria that we will look at. Is this something that's scalable? Now the question is what do you mean by scalable? So one named clients, but one of the clients that we have is interested in the learning. So not specifically whether or not that influencer needs to be scaled for 100 million people or whatever. His main interest is does it work? And can we apply that logic and that model to other parts of our business? Whereas there will be other things, particularly I think with media investments in areas like Snapchat where the creative formats are very different, so it's much more labor intensive. Do they really wanna put investment in that area? Is that something that they feel that has legs and longevity? So I think it's a really good question and there's different ways of looking at it. I think the remains even with zero budget, with zero-sum budgeting and all these scrutiny that a lot of these companies, there still remains a desire and a recognition that unless they keep testing things, they will fall behind. So I cannot think of a client of mine that doesn't wanna know about voice, doesn't wanna know about AR, VR. Now they may not spend a lot of money on it but they wanna keep a toe in there to figure out what's happening because they recognize through that second wave of disruption mobile, that first wave of disruption desktop, a lot of them were laggards. And when you look at the S&P 500 in the US right now, the average lifespan of an S&P 500 company has gone down 50 years. It's only 15 year average now. So it doesn't matter what size you are. There's two guys or gals in Bangalore that are ready to disrupt your business tomorrow and they don't need a lot of assets. What they need is just agility, speed, some venture capital funding of course, and a lot of data and they can do a lot with that. So I think when you look at some of the acquisitions made recently, Million Dollar Shave Club, some of the others, I think it's a recognition that they don't wanna get caught in that position again. They're gonna have to be a lot more agile. Good question. I will unfortunately have to stop taking questions from the audience. I think it's fortunate for them. I think they're ready to move on. No, I think it's rapt attention that they're looking here with. Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much, Norm. Yes, let's hear it for Norm, please. And I hope this is working. If I may invite on stage Mr. Vinod Srivastav, Senior General Manager, Jagadran Prakashan to please come up on stage and felicitate Norm for this brilliant session and being kind with me also. Thank you so much, Norm. I had a great session with you. Thank you so much, Mr. Srivastav and thank you so much, Norm.