 And I'm going to make Allegra the host and I'm finishing up my finals guys have a good meeting. Let me see. Okay, I guess I'll do the formal thing. Hold on one second. So it is 605 and I'm calling to order the Community Safety and Social Justice Committee. The extension of chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone see instructions below. No in person attendance and members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. This is the official thing that I have to do. And then so I am just realizing that when I sent out the email I think the time said 630 on the original email but then the time with the meeting link came as six. So I don't know. So let me call up. Let me see if I can reach that. I just don't know if that might have caused some confusion and I don't I have not heard back from D from our agenda planning with Jen. They have a conflict today. Okay, thank you. Time conflict. I just want to make sure that if there was a miscommunication around time we are allowing Deborah. There's no opportunity to come. I'm reaching. Yeah, I'm reaching out to her right now. Thank you, Miss Pat. Yeah. Also since neither Jen nor Pamela can be here tonight, I suppose I will try and take notes to the best of my ability so we have some sort of minutes. She'll be joining us shortly. She thought is 630. Okay, that's, I realize that I think too late to do anything about it. So I guess I can start with the agenda review and I don't know if you heard miss Pat but I just said, neither Jennifer nor Pamela could stay for the meeting tonight so I will take notes to the best of my ability. So first, we will have public comment, then member reports. Then the action and discussion items are the joint press release debrief from the five 1023 HRC and town council meeting update from Amherst six. And then the CSS JC letter regarding the police chief search and the League of Women Voters letter regarding that as well then additional public comment and upcoming agenda. So that is the order of affairs for this evening as of right now I am not seeing any members of the public present in the audience as attendees. So it is just the four of us and I will keep an eye out for Deborah to join us. So I have comment about the agenda. Did you, I didn't hear the, the, the vote that the letter about George Floyd anniversary. Yes, sorry that was the first agenda. Okay, sorry. I wasn't paying attention. So, seeing that there's no public for the public comment. Does anybody have any reports or announcements to make. Yes, Miss Pat. Yes, I do. So I just want to thank a RHA. Group, the reparation group. They came to BBAA meeting for listening session. They wanted their black business businesses to share their experiences of running business in our town. Miss Pamela Young and Miss Jennifer Moisten also was an, they were also in attendance. I just want to really thank them. I appreciate them for taking some of their Sunday afternoon to join my group. So I just want to appreciate them. So I have an announcement. Black Business Association of Amherst, we are having a June 10 celebration on June 19 from 4pm till dawn. That would be life music. Free food, free beverages, and it's going to be at Mill River in Amherst. We're having a conflict with what Miss Moisten usually plans for the year. So the one that she's planning starts from Saturday, Sunday, Monday. Saturday I believe is the ancestral bridges. Sunday I think is movie or something at the cinema. Monday at a time coming from 10am till whenever. My group, we're doing Juneteenth celebration starting from 4pm. The Black Business Association of Amherst area. Some of the members of BBAA actually started at Juneteenth in 2010. And then came COVID. So we're starting again this year. So we're inviting people that would be flyers on social media. We're inviting the public to show up. Good food. Come on down. No commercialization, no selling. We're not selling any food. Thank you for that, Miss Pat. Dr. Freke. I just wanted to say food is always good. Not Nigerian food, but it's cooked out. And I see Phillip. Yep. The Human Rights Commission is putting on June 11th. So we're going to have the Youth Hero Awards at the Mill District. And so I just wanted to get that on people's agendas and radar. There's a flyer going on. So if you have any youth that you would like to nominate for a Youth Hero Award. Please feel free to do so. It's on our homepage at the HRC as well as the town. I'm sorry, Phillip. Is that at Mill River or the Mill District? Mill River. We're not going to nominate. We're still late. So nominate. I will. Okay. No, you can nominate. Yeah. I think we're until the end of the month here is last day. And even if you, I mean, get in a little late, we're not going to be that stick clear for it. Hi, Deb. Hi, Deb. Again, sorry for the mix up. I realized one email said one time and then the invite. Said a different time. So. Yeah. just waiting for 630. So yeah. Okay. Thank you for joining us. We were just going over announcements. Ms. Pat talked about the HRA visiting the Black Business Association of Amherst meeting as well as the DEI department and that there will be a Juneteenth celebration put on by the Black Business Association on Monday the 19th at 4 p.m. till dawn at Mill River and Philip was talking about the Youth Hero Awards happening June 11th at Mill River and Dr. Freke added he enjoys food and celebration. So I wanted to ask in terms of the Juneteenth one, Ms. Pat, is that going to be separate from what the town is doing? Yes. Yes. But my group will also attend all of them. Okay. So you all are having it like different times and stuff like that? Exactly. We will also attend all the three that Jennifer is putting together. Yeah. So what time again is your event? Just start at 4 p.m. till dawn. At where? Yeah. Where is it? Where is it going to be? At Mill River. Mill River? Okay. Free food, free beverages, no selling, no commercialization along the theme of some families who started it in 2020, the Shabazz family, the Cage, Edward Cage, Dr. Baptiste's family, and a handful of members of the community. Yeah. And the town actually participated in the Recreational Department the first day that they did it. Yep. And then came COVID. The group, you know, stopped and so on or restarted this year. Okay. So FlyAs will be on social media this way soon. Excellent. Deborah, did you have any announcements or reports to make? No. No, I know. All right. Thank you. So I guess we can move on to action and discussion items. The first one. Wait, one second. Did they, did you all send the agenda though or is there an agenda? I don't think we ever got the agenda. Oh, we never got the agenda. See if I can screen share. And I'm not very good at this. So please let me know if, do you see the agenda up on the screen? Yeah. So the action items are the press release, debriefing from the town council meeting, update on the MR6, and then discussion around the police chief leathers. So I can pull up the joint press release three years post George Floyd. And tonight we would be voting on whether to sign on as a group to this letter. Is that correct, Ms. Pat? Yes. Okay. Would you like me to read aloud the letter? Oh, yeah. I just want to give credit to Brianna Owen who initiated it with CSWG and we passed it on to PCA and we've had additional groups signed on it, Sunrise Amherst and also Defund 4. Human Rights Commission last week was not able to because there was no forum. So we're just waiting for our group tonight to decide if they want to sign on. Thank you, Ms. Pat, for that background. Okay. So I will read this aloud. Three years ago, George Floyd was violently murdered by the Minneapolis police, one of thousands of black men that fell victim to police brutality in the United States. The video of his murder went viral and received over 1.4 billion views. His death for many was a rallying cry for long-needed institutional reform. Amherst, Massachusetts was one of the many communities across the nation that made reforms in the wake of Floyd's death. Amherst Town Council drafted and ratified the resolution affirming the town of Amherst's commitment to end structural racism and achieve racial equity for black residents, which acknowledges the town's history of racially motivated policies and practices, rejects prejudice and bigotry, and affirms its commitment to eradicating the effects of systemically racist practices of town government and town affiliated organizations. Informed by the hard work of the community safety working group, CSWG, in collaboration with their partner consultant's seven generation movement collective and law enforcement action partnership LEAP, Amherst became the first municipality in Massachusetts to create an alternative safety service centered around anti-racism and trauma-informed care. Amherst also created its first diversity, equity, and inclusion department staffed with two employees, and Amherst became the second municipality in the nation to begin the process of developing a reparation plan, including funding. While we acknowledge these important and monumental steps, we also take time to reflect on what has not changed in our local community. National data suggests that three or more lives are lost per day due to police brutality. The July 5th incident last summer was a painful reminder that many of the original recommendations made by CSWG have yet to be implemented, and many in our community still do not feel safe or included. While the Community Safety Social Justice Committee, CSSJC, was established to continue and further the work initiated by CSWG, the recommendations largely go unheeded by town council. The Amherst police department specifically and the entire Amherst town government have yet to receive standardized anti-racist training, and our BIPOC youth still have no promise of a multicultural center to gather in. While the COVID-19 pandemic hit all community members, BIPOC community members, and Black-owned businesses were disproportionately impacted, and while the American Rescue Plan brought 11.9 million to the town of which the business community was awarded 650,000, none of the existing businesses owned by the Black Business Association of Amherst Area were awarded any of that money. The CSWG, in collaboration with the aforementioned consultants, made many recommendations that remain unfulfilled. We urge our town government to visit their proposals, including policy changes in the Amherst police department, policy changes informed by anti-racist training through all levels of town government, the establishment of the Youth Empowerment Center, BIPOC Cultural Center, and the seating of a resident oversight board community safety working group, coercive coalition of Amherst, and then I believe it was Sunrise and Defund 413 that had also signed on. So that is the letter I'm going to stop sharing my screen, if that's okay. And open up for a discussion about whether CSSJC would like to sign on to this letter. Yes, Ms. Pat. So for transparency, I also belong to CSWG and also PCA. So I just want to put that there. Thank you for that, Ms. Pat. Yeah, and I'm with CSWG, so I'm already someone that's on board with this letter. And you're Allegra Defund. Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot. Yes, so I also in another organization, Defund 413 have signed on to this letter, but I do putting on my CSSJC hat believe that it is in line with what we're trying to accomplish in terms of putting forward the recommendations of the CSWG and trying to recognize where inequities still lie and how to move forward with those in town. So I would as a member of CSSJC also support signing on to the letter. Philippa Freca, do you have anything to say? I find the relevance with Judge Floyd and there's a lot to support. I would recommend that we take out the business parts and combine what remains of that paragraph through the paragraph that comes before it. Can you put it back up, Allegra? Can we have Philippa speak too? Yeah, I just wanted to see what he was alluding to so that we can be clear. So what were you talking about, Freca? Yeah, so the second to last paragraph has, BIPOC youth still have no promise of a multicultural center to gather in. Everything else after that speaks on the business side. I think that should be taken out and then this paragraph moved to the previous one so that it is balanced because the previous one mentions of things that haven't been implemented and that is one of those things. All right, so what do people understand what he's saying? He's saying move that one to below. So the last paragraph? Yeah, take this out and then move what remains to the previous paragraph. Okay, so let's back up. So we have three paragraphs on this page. Two of them start with wow. So the third paragraph or the first paragraph on this page has that many in a community still do not feel safe or included. We then begin a new paragraph and I'm saying that we take out what is highlighted, delete it and then move this what remains of that paragraph to this previous paragraph because what this previous paragraph talks about is about the things that haven't been done and some of the things that have not been done include the BIPOC youth center and the training, the anti-racist training. I don't think the business parts belongs in the letter as it is. Well, we're going to vote. So yeah, we're going to vote tonight. Yeah. Philip? I think I have a similar thought on where Freke is held up on it and I do see the relevance of it. I do, I guess, just have some concern with the business aspect of it and in particular to where it does say BIPOC are well, the COVID pandemic hit all community members, BIPOC community members and Black owned businesses were disproportionately impacted. I think that it's relevant to say that all BIPOC community members were disproportionately impacted. I can see the relevance in highlighting Black businesses in this statement and I think that's where I'm getting held up on it because I do recognize clearly the George Floyd murder that happened was a horrendous thing that happened and we need to highlight that we can't just be 30 years down the line and be like, oh, nothing's changed. We've done this. We've done that, but nothing really has changed in significance to further the Black community or the BIPOC community. So I'm not as held up as that. I won't vote for this because I know that other groups are signed on and so I think that it speaks relevance to have this group signed on to it. I am just held up on that a little bit. So you're saying that it should be like BIPOC owned businesses? That's what you're saying as opposed to just... Right. Well, I mean, it highlights it right in the next there, right? It says BIPOC community members and Black owned businesses were disproportionately impacted. I see the correlation to why Black businesses were highlighted. It either doesn't make sense to me to add in BIPOC community members and Black businesses or to not add in BIPOC businesses in that statement as well. Like I said, though, it's not something that will hold me up in a vote for it. It just, I'm voicing my opinion on that. Well, I guess I have a question. So since others have already signed on, do we have the way we're going to be able to change it or would we just do a separate letter then? Like those CSWG and the Progressive Code and those ones would kind of do this letter. And then if we made changes, we would do a different letter. Is that what would happen? Ms. Pat, do you... Sure. So basically it was a suggestion that was made to pass it on to other groups to weigh in. And other groups like got back to me like very quickly. I think, you know, the whole theme about this press release is that racism still persists in our community. It's not only just focus on police brutality. It's about marginalization of Black community, more than anything else. I'm fine if we want to take out the word BIPOC youth. We can say Black and Brown youth because Black and Brown community continues to be impacted by racism in our town. So this is about, the whole concept is about racism in general. And that's why the Black Business Association situation was added onto it. It's all about racism. So we shouldn't think it only, you know, to be only about policing. It's not only about that. And then to go to Deborah's question, what happens if we don't have majority and then we need to decide if CSSJC, if we want to write something is optional. We don't have to. We only have one moment for some people that will be moving on. So whatever we decide tonight is fine with me. In that way, this is going to print this weekend. So Ms. Pat, just to clarify, this letter is going to print as is not as we, so we're voting yes or no to put our names on it, not amending it and then putting on. Exactly. Yes or no? Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. That's good, Claire. That's good to know. Yeah. That's, yeah. Does anybody have any other questions for me? That isn't the question. It's just what I had mentioned. Part of the reason I mentioned it is because I accept, I think I read the CSWG report. It didn't have much to see about the business side. And so everything else is speaking about some of the stuff that had been done at least in terms of ideas from the working group. And we're looking back to say we have me progress, but not in these areas and not with these recommendations. This doesn't stand within that other stuff. And that's one of the reasons why I'm hesitant to have it in there for me just sticks out. If I may, I will encourage you, Freke, to go back and read CSWG notes, meetings, recommendations. We did address racism within business community, CSWG. We did discuss it in some of our meetings. It probably did not make it to recommendations, but I am very 100% sure I raised it at CSWG. Why wouldn't I? So it's something that we discussed. And the marginalization continues. It has not stopped. Does that help? It does. But it comes down to the stylistics, the stylistics being that everything else, we can point to recommendations that are made and that have not been followed through. But even though this was discussed for some reason, it didn't appear. And so they must have been reasons unbeknownst to us why that wasn't the case when it comes to the business side. I do think this is an important issue. I don't know if it belongs in the letter as is. So maybe we can just vote and we'll see how we go from there. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. I'm just going to call people as I see them on my screen. Ms. Pat? Yes. Dr. Freke? No. Deborah? Yes. Sorry, I am note taking as well because we don't have anybody from DEI here tonight. So excuse the pauses. Philip? I think I said kind of what my holdup is on it. And I just want to add that anything that CSSJC puts forward from here on out can be a recommendation added to CSWG. That is what this predecessor group is meant to do. So my vote will be a yes. And I am a yes. So it passes with four yeses and one no. And now I'm going to figure out how to take it off the screen. Okay. So our next item, I'm sorry. I feel like I don't know where everything is. Our next item of business is to debrief from the joint HRC town council meeting from May 10th. I guess what we think went well, what might not have gone so well and what we hope to see from it. Is there anything else you would add to commentary feedback from that? Yeah. I think that I would just add from what I added from HRC is that I think the way that the meeting was ran was very well done. I felt like in previous meetings with town council members, it was very often we were on the outside of the room, virtual room, if you will. And this time it felt like we were inside and much with the prioritization of speaking. And so I think that I just want to again publicly thank Michelle and as well as publicly thank Lynn for allowing that to happen because I think that we have seen that that's not always the case. And so I will give her a thank you as well. Thank you. Deborah. Yeah. I want to thank Michelle especially for facilitating the meeting and like Phil said, Philip said that it was well run in terms of making sure that we were part of the meeting and then obviously prioritizing us. I just think like it could have been just kind of the order of how things are going to go probably could have been explained a little bit better. I don't think that was on the show. I think like Lynn could have explained that a bit better because like even for me like I started the whole thing by saying all of my suggestions and then I had to kind of repeat my suggestions again part by part you know what I'm saying. So that could have been kind of clarified early on. And then you know and then for me though Lynn I do want to you know publicly kind of discuss my disappointment at you know as the meeting went on how it was getting later and later in the night and then I think someone had had discussed well you know maybe we can have another meeting day to kind of continue going through this and then Lynn basically was just like no we had already had this day for us to discuss this issue and so we need to do that and it's just like you know I felt that that was really disrespectful you know because basically you know it kept on dragging out people exhausted you know no one could think straight you know I basically stated you know I mean you know we're we're a volunteer group you know what I'm saying I have you know kids and elder at home and stuff like that and you know no regard just disregarded it and for that this was very important issue very important topic that we've been bringing up all along in terms of CSSGC around you know what happened with you know the Amherst 9, Amherst 6 situation and July 5th situation and everything and how you know the town dragged their feet and again I felt it was like they didn't it was purposefully done for us to continue going into like what I left at 11 at night and people were still like going on into into midnight or whatever time I don't even know what time it ended you know so I don't even know what happened at the end or anything like that and and I'm a very vocal person so I felt it was like a way to silence me um knowing you know that I'm a vocal person that I had more to say but I just couldn't because I had to leave because of my you know family obligations and Lynn was the one that put it right out there and she's the leader of the of the town council she could have very well said you're absolutely right and let's you know schedule another day you know I'm sorry I understand town council is busy but this is important you're again showcasing to the BIPOC people that our issues are not important to the town right that that being anti-racist and dealing with racism in this town is not important and so you know people just started you know glazing over not talking about the issues in this totality besides a few people and like I said I had to leave so it was a way to silence me and I'm sure silence others so I want to publicly you know say my you know my just disappointment sadness frustration and um and say that it was very disrespectful towards what we were trying to accomplish that night and if someone could fill me in whoever was able to stay until like I don't know after 11 could fill me in in terms of what happened it would be nice thank you Deborah I do think that that is an important point because I you know I think all of our time is valuable and well it can be frustrating to try and find time to all sit together and meet it's also frustrating to have meetings go on until 11 30 at night when we've been you know that was I don't know I think what a five hour meeting that's it is a lot and I you know I don't know what the best answer is because obviously here we are having another debriefing session after a meeting that I mean I think went better than meetings in the past have gone but certainly went very long and I think I think at the end many of the kind of important things that we wanted to talk about around crests and um DEI and the youth empowerment center especially kind of got maybe glossed over because again it was hour five of the meeting and and everyone was very tired um I mean I think Ms. Pat I'll let you speak and then I'll so I want to echo what three of you have already said um I think for me having been silenced by the um council president in the past to have Councillor Michelle actually facilitate the discussion was um really a good thing for me I felt like I can speak without being silenced um I think you know I agree also with Deborah like I really didn't know what the the process was going to be we didn't know like you know um so to me at the beginning was confusing but overall I thought it was um much better joint meeting that we've had in the past however it is still you know uh a show because nothing came out of it um so you know Deborah uh at the end I believe the uh council president lane had said well you know the town manager will need to update the council town council about the progress they are making and so to me it was like no surprise right there it's a waste of time writing reports collecting dust like it doesn't collect dust anymore it's you know stuck in um mass.gov website you know not much um came out of faith for me uh in terms of what um we had hoped to happen which is uh increasing crests at budget uh DEI the oversight board when is this going to happen like just concrete stuff youth center like nothing you know I left feeling like nothing is going to is the same thing that we already knew before we came in there was no promises or oh maybe we'll look back at the budget or whatever um so that was disappointing to me but um not not surprising I do want to say for me personally that I appreciate uh councilor daughter 3 p.m really being courageous to really um express her concern around when I raised uh uh issue about the BBAA um black business owners so you know it takes a lot of courage to do that um I also I think for me personally I got something out from having the town manager wanted to uh connect with me and he did do that um he did um we exchanged email but we haven't said a date um it will be sometime in June hopefully to discuss you know MSX and APA funds for black businesses because we're not giving up I think our town did illegal stuff by denying some black business owners funding for illegal excuses that was given to them so um I want to touch on Allegra thank you so much for presenting for us especially for reading out loud some of uh quotes from the MSX they want me to send heartfelt thank you to you and to the two committees of course and um that's what I can say now since we have you know that on an agenda I'll have more stuff to talk then let's see um the last thing is that I I want to express my solidarity with um trans youth for what they went through the middle school students um with some uh with some of our school personnel so I just want to put that out I appreciate people who came out residents you you know staff that came you know that you know spoke spoke up advocating and we have you know some employees being on administrative leave I think that's the right thing to do however I am frustrated that black and brown youth were detained harassed by MS police on July 5th and nobody called out our chief of police to you know advocate for him you know for him to get administrative leave or even step down and even the two white officers that I know accountability and I will tell you guys what I think the reason is when things impact white families the reaction is it's quick and swift when it when it affects brown and black families like police in situation because we're so immune to it it's not because people are afraid to speak up it's because that's what the imagery that we've been getting about well what else is new that's you know black people and police it doesn't impact white people is what I'm trying to say even with what happened in our school district with our trans youth some of them maybe kids of color but perhaps their parents are white parents and so that's why we have this huge big organizing I love that it's good I'm sorry for what happened to to the youth but this is we should be consistent in our community the way we respond to injustice so lack of accountability we still don't know what the administration did to the two white officers why why why do we you know have double standard for for for for for for BIPOC families and their kids thank you thank you miss Pat and thank you Allegra you were so very helpful with the with the school yeah Rekha do you have any thoughts to share about the meeting um not a lot I think the meeting was long but besides that I think it's a reminder that the group reflects the voices of different segments of the Amherst community and so one of the things that we can do is continue to shine light on those issues that affect those communities and we can stand in as the amplifiers of those communities since they can't all be in a meeting like this and so it's it's a huge responsibility and one that we should take seriously I think that is what I've I've gotten but from this particular meeting but also from what we had in the last meeting we should continue to remember that we amplify the voices of those who can't be here and we can encourage those who may not be able to attend the meetings but because they're long because everyone almost people have other things that they do find ways to get orders from our community involved in some of the local politics I think that'll be very helpful if the issues we're interested in aren't getting the visibility or impact something we can do again is both amplify but also find a way to encourage orders to be part of the political process I have one important issue I wanted to also mention is the fact that what I heard what I read in the community people believe they trans youth and why wouldn't we I believe them however with the incident on July 5th we have our so-called black leaders commenting but publicly and in the media questioning the the amount of pain that these kids are going through they were you know I heard people saying at least they were not shocked at least they were not detained for so long at least we haven't seen the rest of the video that is much away almost what some of our black leaders have done is that they have contributed in harming these kids because what is very powerful what we say is very powerful basically doubting the pain of our black and black our brown youth on July 5th but I've not heard the same similar black leaders doubting the trans youth that that were also abused in our school system thank you thank you miss pat I do agree that that's a really important distinction to draw and to to think about you know and I think you're absolutely right is who's who's affected and who shows up to speak out and and when they do and don't is something that we need to think about as a community and certainly myself as a white person in this community I've been noticing the differences over the past couple of weeks and I think like Farke says we just have to continue to shine the light on disparities and continue to give voice to those who might not be able to attend a meeting or haven't found the right pathways into participating in town government yet I just I guess my takeaway from the meeting was I I felt discouraged and I kind of felt like there wasn't a plan that I understood going forward in terms of the recommendations and I certainly felt that the response around Cress and funding for Cress and expanding Cress was disappointing and while I understand the idea behind slowly unrolling things and making sure that they feel comfortable in in doing things first before they move to a next phase of things it also seemed strange to me that we're out there promoting what Cress is doing and acting as a model to other towns if we're not sure that we can do our model the way it was proposed in the first place and from my understanding that includes around the clock services so I guess my hope is that there will be more counselors who say oh there there are a lot of things that we said we were going to do in this resolution and and we haven't really figured out a plan forward and we do need to maintain the conversation around this rather than just having this oh another box that we check because we had this meeting and and now you know because I I don't I don't think that the meeting resolved anything or put forward a good plan for next steps for most of the things identified so I guess that's I'm feeling not surprised by that but again discouraged and I guess that perhaps what we do as a group as a follow-up might be what something that we have to discuss maybe not tonight but just you know I think that could be the next step for this group I also just want to thank um um uh let's see Phillip and Reke for putting together our response I like how the two committees you know united to refocus our concerns around CSWG recommendations and also around July 5th because the goal for the town council president is to confuse the public you know try to ignore what we're pushing for but we didn't fall for it we we you know we brought our you know what issues that were more important to us we make sure that you were at they were at you know at least brought forward so I'm so grateful for the two committees and for the leadership of Phillip and Reke for putting all that together I know you said you know hard hard hard work it's a lot of work to put it together thank you thank you yeah brah um yeah I just wanted to ask since like I said you know I couldn't I wasn't able to stay till the end and all of that and so Miss Pat you said that not nothing much kind of came out of the end so I guess what will be our response to this you know CSJC in terms of the fact that you know we spent all those hours you know on there took the time you know Phillip and Reke took the time to gather all our input and put it out there and so on so forth um you know so another kind of dog and pony show or what what are we going to what's going to be our response um to this because we need to continue the pressure as opposed to just being like okay whatever now now you know the town manager's gonna you know what does it present to the town council and so on so forth I'm like what what is going on here it's just kind of like gas lighting and and continuing to just keep us you know like moving the target type of thing that's what I do so that we you know stay constantly confused in terms of what it is that we we're here to do so yeah what are we doing with our next with our next step I mean I can certainly write a follow-up email as the co-chair to both the town manager and the town council president just say you know we at our next meeting we'd like to have kind of a plan of of what next to do so what are the next steps that you are taking what are the next steps you are where the areas of input from our committee and when do we need to be involved in these discussions and um and when should we set next meeting I if that if those three things would be the primary things we want to focus on there if there are other things well I mean I think I think they need to so we spent all that time and we we sent them a document right that kind of showcased the deficiencies in the report right and and especially like in terms of like I'll just bring up one example right with the oversight board and then going back to the drawing board they already have an RFP out that we didn't even see and everything that you know I'm assuming goes back to the drawing board and it's asking again to redo all the work that CSWG did as opposed to just set up the oversight board because we already did all the legwork CSWG already had done all the legwork just set it up that's what we need you see what I'm saying so my thing is yeah and that email is like okay so we gave you all the feedback we gave you all the document so what are you going to do to actually implement what we suggested you know I mean we can't give them any any wiggle room so when are you going to implement what we suggested and by by when you know it's just really simple by when because and and and if they you know if they don't or or we need to kind of set up another meeting and I think that well I don't know about another meeting it's just like oh my god meeting with these people or just sometimes just a waste of time um but really yeah at least for me those would be the two important things and I think we need to add some other some other things I don't know miss pat you have an idea well ideas that I have you know isn't you know practical because some stuff we may not have control over it you know what we're discussing I'm glad we're discussing unfortunately we're discussing this now I kind of saw this maybe two three months ago and that's when I made the decision that I will not be reapplying to CSSJC as much as I feel that CSSJC is my baby sort of but I don't want to you know I think I can still be effective if I get off my term in other ways but basically for whatever reason the town council leadership doesn't see CSSJC as a as a as a collaborative committee that they can work with and so she holds all the power to decide where issues should go the direction it should go one of the things could be we need to change the makeup of the town council election has consequences if we continue to have the leadership we have now I'm afraid that I mean we'll continue to advocate but if it's not their priority it's not going to happen the whole reason of having CSSJC is to ensure that CSWG recommendations are implemented it's also to to provide a resource for our town government they are not utilizing CSSJC as they're supposed to and it's a shame if they think they can get majority BIPOC committee like this people seeing the way we've been treated good luck and I can't speak for HHRC it has to be priority for predominantly white officials for them to take issues seriously it has to impact them you know BIPOC cultural center doesn't impact them why would they want to push for that that's not their priority so you know it's still about power it's about racism let's call it what it is but I have faith in you guys that you know pushing through will continue to you guys will continue to do that I'll be behind the same you know trying the best I can I'm not going to abandon you guys but we're in for long ride unfortunately this is a mess we do a lot of talking very little action I know I didn't provide any solutions joint meetings we've seen it it didn't help I mean they probably tell you that they increase for CRES program the increment was 20k I think they increased it to 220k still that doesn't address 24 seven and then I was I was watching a budget meeting and also they have five thousand dollars for child care that will start in January for elected officials and then they still didn't increase DEI budget it's still only six thousand dollars extra I don't know what six thousand dollars will do for DEI department that has two black women administrators like events like Kwanzaa, Juneteenth, Black History Month there is no budget for it nothing zero for example Human Rights Commission you know they do so many events there is no allocation for that I will stop to give other people opportunities to speak but I'm not going anywhere I will be around making my public comments when you guys meet well miss Pat we certainly will miss you as a committee member I'll miss you guys too but I'll be around don't worry I doubt that you will hang up your voice just because you hang up your hand on this committee I'm I think I'm excited for BBAA I like the direction where we're going so it's good but I think that's the important part right miss Pat is that yeah definitely we will need you and others in the community to continue to support us and to continue to make sure to push us right to advocate for all the important thing because if if we don't have the community support then we won't be able to do the work that we do you know as we've been talking about we're the ones that are amplifying the the voices of the voiceless right because you know a lot of people can't be at these meetings and so how can we kind of you know speak truth to power if we don't have the backing of the community so for sure miss Pat you and others are going to have to be very much in that corner for us to be able to do the work but I think you know what you brought up and I think you had brought it up to Allegra it's like we need to ask the SSJC really think about how do we insert ourselves within the town council right we can't be this ancillary group that just gets brought in when we make a little bit of noise right we need to be a group that you know gets consulted you know at every point when these issues are arising as opposed to them thinking of us as an afterthought or only when we we create noise how is it you know and that's the thing right we were created because really they didn't want us to really have any power and things like that we were just created because CSWG said you need to have another group that's going to continue this work since CSWG you know because of the finite time period they gave to us they disbanded us because they wanted to disband us right because we were too powerful so they wanted to disband it was purposely done and so then you know CSJC was to continue this work so it's really a group that was reluctantly and with a lot of resistance put into place so we're a group that really shouldn't exist we exist because we put the pressure CSWG and the community right put the pressure for us to exist so that's the way we got it we have we have to really kind of think of it and that framing right with that frame of mind so that you know we we we have to really kind of talk amongst ourselves and really come up with okay how is it that we're going to be taken seriously and how is it that we're going to be a true part of the consultative process because right now we are disregard I mean that is the case because we never were meant to be anything but you know this annoying pebble in in the shoe right of the of the town council and the town government and the system so we we need to kind of come up with that in term because they're not going to come up with that right they're not going to do it unless we tell them they need to do it so so I think we we need to come up with what that is because we need to present them with the plan Deborah well said I think I'm glad you know you know you have one more year term to keep reminding the new group you know whoever you know is selected to join keep reminding the history of CSSJC why it's even existed the plan is to set CSSJC to fail in two ways one is to have status quo people that will say stuff that the powerful people want to hear then you become peaceful you're very nice you're not controversial everything is oh yeah yeah yeah the time is doing wonderful that would be their ideal CSSJC that's what they're looking for so in that term in that in that way um it felt but not in the sense that people say it because people are afraid to speak up they just want to appease the powerful people so eventually that would be the goal to select people to say yeah everything is going great yeah that's great the second piece is us the current group that is pushing for progress and so what is the reaction ignore them distract them distract them we will just not do what they ask us to do we will come up with you know other agenda because the last joint meeting that we attended was as a result of July 5th that the town government refused to address and then the town council president came up with seven lists of motion instead of addressing the real issue and so that's the way they want us to fail like you can advocate as much as you want you can scream as much as you want we're not going to give you what you want we will just come up with our own agenda and that's what they're doing so CSSJC as it depends on the quality of people that will continue to sit on it and saying that everything is okay good good doesn't mean that the CSSJC is successful no so people have to be very careful when they join this group are they willing to represent the community what this committee is all about if people are not ready to do the right thing they should not even join thank you miss pat yeah i'd have to agree with um a lot what debora and miss powder saying i think that it's totally needed that sitting in a room and just saying oh yeah everything is great is not going to get anything done in a progressive type of way just never has in history and i don't think it ever will in history and so we need voices that will challenge and advise people that do have blind spots and i mean let's let's put it out there as white people they in positions of power will not know the struggle of biboc individuals and so groups like this is great and i think that groups like this can be gratefully utilized in this town to debora's point if they've already made this committee and have put us in an advisory form why not use us in an advisory form and continue to use us before very keyword that debora said before anything happens not after the fact because after the fact there's not too much that can be done it's more like picking up pieces if we get in a position to be advised before and kind of say hey this doesn't make sense or hey why don't we think about it this way then we can avoid a lot of issues that come up so i think that to um the main point i think that debora you're making is that what what are we going to do how are we going to advocate for that and try and make that and i would be in favor of putting something in writing to advocate for a town counselor because i know that they've pushed other issues on housing and other things for the human rights commission when they make motions to motion at a town council meeting that this group and i'll speak to the human rights commission but we can deal with that later be an advisory group during the process sorry that's my cat's feeder in the background but being the advisory position to be on board with town council as they are getting information like glenn putt said that night if they're going to get information from the town manager of updates why are we not going to be included in that as well so i think that that might be the route to go with the town council as they know they like to get things done when it's put in writing and not just that so maybe we need to advocate for a town counselor that is in support of css jc being in those updates to motion and have them vote on it get it in writing i like that idea phillip and so i think what i would like to do is perhaps review the minutes from the joint meeting because i think the town council had taken minutes and posted them at at some point somewhere um just because i i will admit i'm a little fuzzy as to what happened at the very end because it was late and i was tired as we all were um and i can put something together for our june meeting for us to all review and agree on for me to send out if that seems reasonable to people um and in the meantime i don't know if anybody would want to approach any particular counselor if are we allowed to do that so violation and we're allowed to do that right yeah we're allowed to do i mean we're also residents and they are our elected officials so we're definitely allowed to do that as long as it's not a forum correct yes correct um so does anybody have any ideas as to who might be an ally i mean i think from obviously her previous experience on cswg i would alisha's name would pop into my head first but i also think about dorthy pamm as our liaison and as somebody who at our joint meeting did stand up and and first of all i think it was very brave of her to um support miss pat and her um having been targeted previously for speaking out but i think she also shows that she's listening in a way that's different than some of the other counselors i mean when she asked about some of the things i had read and i had to go back and make sure i had the wording right but she you could tell that she was hearing what was being said so she might be a name that would and i would say michelle as well did the facilitation so i don't know if anybody would want to reach out to any of those people um i reach out to alisha what am i reaching out so hard again for about about possibly having some sort of motion brought forward around cssjc being brought in as an advisor during during and not after critical instance i guess well probably even before i just want to remind go ahead i just want to remind us actually that part of our charge that's what is missing in our discussion part of our charge is that we're we advise the town government so i don't know if we need to do a motion that's so that's what i'm getting confused because it's already written i can't speak for hlc because i'm not very familiar with their document but it's already there i was one of the people that crafted the the draft myself and alicia and then we presented it to the cssjc s wg for edits and approval so that's the cornerstone of cssjc right we're supposed to be advising and they're not listening to us it goes back to it's not important to them it's not issues that you know it's urgent to them if it's urgent they will take it up in what happened it's not like you know uh it's it's impossible we should we can only look at the budget and see where our values in this town is if our town wants to spend money on something they will we're getting to electric vehicles for ms police and we still have have no plans for youth programming youth youth center go figure so we already have that we're not you know advisor yeah so for me for me to belong to a group that is not solving problem i can't see myself long term because i consider myself a problem solver i can't be with a group where problems that arises have no plan of solution i cannot be part of it any longer and i don't want to be status quo to say everything is great our town is doing great all the time it's a problem if anybody wants to be that that i'm not i get excited when i can solve problems or have plans to solve problems so i think miss pat brings an important point about looking back at the charge and i think that if i review that as well as the minutes perhaps i can weave what the charge says and our perhaps lack of utilization in that way into the draft that i put together for next meeting i'll just recommend you know just remind this town council they you know they knew about the charge that you know just repeat it send it to you know they like repeat repeat remind them you know some of the new new town council councilors that were elected maybe they weren't involved in the process but that's all you need to do in your memo just our charge that's what we keep doing with cswg we keep reminding them this is what the town manager charge cswg to do when we had a lot of pushback we said this is the charge and that's what we're doing i think we didn't do enough of that in our group and i'll take part of the blame but allegra to save yourself time is just the cssgc charge why are we not following it meaning why is town council the town government not following what they charge us to do that the reason why i was just suggesting a motion because it definitely isn't our charge and i know that it is an hrc charge as well is more so to have a motion in play to invite us into the conversation that will be had in the upcoming year because even though it is in our charge to advise that's kind of them cherry picking when they want to invite us into the room to be an advisory group rather than oh they're having a conversation about one of the seven items that were on the list okay cssgc needs to be in the room as they are discussing as well as more of the point that i was going to get to as a motion that will hold them by their own bylaws into that rather than just say oh yeah we can ask for their advice or oh well they can send a letter three months after we've had a conversation and then that's not going to do too much i'm happy to speak with alicia because she's familiar with you know cssgc origins so i'll talk to her and then she will get in touch with you is that the way it's going to work alegra that's yep that's fine um and then i do see freke and debba have their hands up and i think this is a fruitful erection that we are taking because we are trying to get to what is the fundamental fundamental scope and the goal of this committee and i think after having spent a year we are mature enough that we can begin to take on some roles that we may have i'm not had enough time to do given some of the events that have happened um up to this point i think um what philip says um has some merits to it but i think the reason if we have to move take a step beyond what philip has said if we want to get some work done and what i mean is almost exactly what has been said already as an advisory body if we only wait until something is recommended to us then we can wait a long time so part of the work would be to pay attention to what is going on in the council and see ways in which we can insert ourselves whether it involves writing a letter based on something in the agenda that we see that might be pertinent to what we are working on or if we are unable to get much done by a letter then um having the group um with the representative or spokesperson have um take part in the public comments so for example stuff related to translation stuff related to housing stuff related to transportation related to immigration these are all different issues that in some way are covered by the charge and we don't have to wait till it is recommended to us before we advise if we see that these topics um are going to come up with the town council then we can find ways in which we can bring our own voice to those issues so philip has gotten the ball rolling on some of the things that we can do going forward thank you thank you thank you i think that is important um the the idea of how we act as a body in between our meetings because it is somewhat limiting but at the same time i think there are broader things that that we kind of have a sense of where our committee would probably fall in terms of advocating for something so i do think it's an interesting idea of what what kinds of things can go on between meetings on behalf of the committee um and that might be something to get a little bit of clarification from so that there's not violation of open meeting law but i i see debora also has her hand up sorry so i i think i think it's a it's a good thing miss pat what you were talking about in terms of you know because like what we had created in terms of what css jc was going to be doing and utilized um is there a way to kind of bring up our charge so that we can look at it just to kind of see what what the actual language because one of the drafts that i have it just but i has like the committee may provide advice and support to all town government entities and that's the one i'm referring to yeah but that's the thing because if it's that one though it says it may it doesn't say it shall it doesn't say it you know the town council has to you see what i'm saying i think well may means you know when we feel that it's relevant to social justice issues like it's not in all i know you are not turning so um that's that that's exactly the language i'm referring to yeah no i get it but i'm just saying i think we need because we i'm just saying that obviously when we created this is because we were like okay this is what we want to have happened but now we've had a year under about uh you know of of actually what happened and i think we need stronger language is what i'm saying because i know with these folks if we don't have stronger language if we don't say exactly and that's where maybe you know emotion to kind of make the the language like we can propose like stronger language and let's say Felicia or Michelle or Dorothy Pam is able to kind of make a motion to kind of make that you know stronger and to really delineate that you know whenever there's issues of dei you know a you know issues social justice which is what our name is right the versatility inclusion and social justice issues they need to come and and you know that we need to provide counsel on those so that then it deals with everything you know pre during and post right um as opposed to and and a lot of them already have said that they said that even in the last meeting you know there was some of the town council i forget who it was Dorothy or Michelle someone who said you know we're the ones that are like you know i don't like to use the word experts because i think you know we're all learners and stuff but anyway but we're the ones that have kind of been dealing with this for years right in in a variety of different ways right within our own professional career as well as our volunteer work that we do so why aren't they tapping us why aren't they coming to us who are the ones that have the information or if we don't have the information we know how to go about and to get it you know what i'm saying and instead what they're doing like when everything happened on July 5th it was just like the town manager remember that report that that the town manager had the di per you know Pamela right which that report was filled with errors and had all no no all no information wasn't broad enough didn't have anything so instead of the town manager doing that town manager should have come to us right and consulted with us and said hey this happened right and and and since they didn't they put their the hands between their legs and it was a mess right because we would have been able to be like okay you're here you want to consult with us let's consult let's talk through some of these issues you know what i'm saying let's figure out how we're going to address this which one of the first thing would be apologize you know right off the bat as opposed to seven months later or whatever months later which what the town manager you know what the town manager did so i think that's the thing is just kind of like how can we make this language stronger because we know with these folks this is like it's there but it says may this and then the third you know which i think we thought that's strong enough to deal with these folks but again they're in resistance they don't want to listen to us they want to just go ahead and do whatever they they want to do as opposed to listen to what it is that we have to say so we have to make them listen to us i just want to bring remind us that in this first paragraph on the purpose it says the committee shall work to support all members of the ms community shall support that's one of our roles shall support the entire community but it's not happening because you know we're not being tapped we're not being seen as a resource we're seen as uh i don't know i don't want to use the word so these are the charge okay i like right if you don't mind could you go back up to the first page yeah yeah there um i i'll have to disagree with on this but i think we are supporting on because sometimes supports might come from the issues that we raise even if it goes on bird or if it's not implemented so just raising some of the topics that haven't received visibility is a form of support i think just speaking for example again about um translation for groups that may not be a part of this committee is some form of support and also in the second sentence that says the committee committee may provide advice may actually for me it's quite strong what may means is that we have autonomy to talk about any of the issues we find pertinent to what's going on in the town now what it focuses on is that we can speak about these issues but whether these issues will then be heard and whether our suggestions will be carried out that's beyond our scope but to go beyond that i would say there is no way that we can mandate the legislative body to do anything regardless of whatever the bylaws will be we can't mandate the town council to do something so even if someone wrote that i don't think it would be as effective as simply recognizing that anything that impinges on the community and that we find relevance is something that we can talk about i see deb bro miss packin go first and then did you want to go miss yeah i hear what you're saying however um the way it works here is that you know community can mandate elected officials stuff to do stuff what's to do stuff if community organized see what happened in our school system that was pressure on the school school committee that was pressure on the school administration and that was swift action so i don't necessarily agree that a committee cannot mandate elected officials if that is enough support action can be taken that's just all i want to say deb bro nun freke yeah and i think i think we have to put the pressure on them in terms of you know what what we're saying because they are they're elected officials they're not this just omnipotent body that is just there to do whatever they want you know what i'm saying and i think we can't give them any wiggle room to kind of you know not follow our advice you see what i'm saying i mean for me you know again yeah i think for for people who are not resistant the language we have there is perfectly fine it's not a problem but we've seen what what has what has happened though towards this past year which is really like they pick and choose we're going to make we're going obviously we've we've been at a gazillion meetings this past year with the town council you know restating the same facts over and over again i remember myself being you know at several meetings with the town council this year so i'm not shy about saying what needs to be said you know in terms of what i know the community you know is entrusting me to say i'm not shy about that for the point of the matter is it's not just saying it just for saying sake right that's tiring i have a lot on my plate you know i don't want to just be you know talking at nauseam and not having any action taken right and so my part is what do we need to do to make sure that action is taken we already have seen that that that the town council town government town manager is not knowing how to go about being responsive right in terms of even what you said miss pat that yes the town manager finally took your your information but remember was i pointed it out during the meeting did you talk to miss pat as a representative of the group you know what i'm saying i mean that was basics basics 101 and you have you didn't you know you had said that miss pat months ago that you were the representative of the group they never even went and and and talked to you in regards to that you know what i'm saying because why because you never asked any advice he's just kind of doing whatever he's doing you know what i'm saying so if you have a body like us that's the majority you know by park a group why wouldn't you come and consult with us and let us guide you through this process again not to say that we can't make mistakes too we can we're fallible we're human you know but i'm but i bet you're going to do a lot better than what they did this past year which was really you know not a good situation and just made the situation worse for months and even at this point right families and the young people are still hurting it really hasn't been any resolution it really hasn't been anything that has you know definitively come out of this in regards to addressing this issue because an apology from the town manager months on and down the line is not going to resolve all all the problems i think they thought that was going to be the magic wand it's not so that's why i'm saying we need to kind of you know figure this out so that then it is a direct line to the town council to say when these issues arise because that's our name diversity equity inclusion i mean social justice and and diversity group rices as jc that's our name why aren't you consulting us before these issues arise and most and and most urgently when they do arise before you are responsive to them thank you debora i see freke and philip those are those are points that need to be taken into account um however i'll reflect on two things one the charge was not written by the committee the committee the committee was created and given this charge the charge was written by um the town council i think no i was written by no no no no no no it was written by us cswg and then the town manager tweaked some of it but majority of it um so the purpose you know he he cleaned it up a little bit but it is very reflective of what we wanted and the surprise that came came was having a one-year term we never discussed one-year term with cswg no no no no no could could you go to the top i never sorry the top to the top of the page yeah if you see here on the the fourth spot it says the town manager pair amorce chatter that's the appointing body i'm not speaking about the text i'm speaking about the authority for the committee to exist that comes from the town yeah yes the manager appointed us there are some committees that the town council appoint but for cssjc it's actually the town manager yes so um what i'm trying to bring out is that the committee itself didn't write the charge it was giving a charge um but what it was let's think of it as a period of time there was a time there was no committee and then there was a time the committee appeared and something created the committee it wasn't the community itself as i said um the authority as it's given here appointing authority is the town manager yeah except yes yeah yeah so um we can't change that charge is what i'm saying by ourselves we can only speak to whoever has the authority and then that charge can change but um we can discuss that a bit more more importantly i i would want to know i've not been in the town long enough so you can correct me if i'm wrong is there any committee that has its recommendations always accepted by the town council because if there isn't yes the point would okay yeah which what committee would that be the um finance committee most of the time uh the town council robbers stem said you know i mean they will ask questions and discuss and you know but there are some committees in our town that you know bring recommendations on a regular basis to the the town council that's correct yeah i'm just saying um we have to find a way again using that charge where the word may is used um may means that's for the issues that are being brought to the town council if we look at them and we find that they are relevant to what a scope is we can talk um about it and the implementation is going to be left to the town council that there's this there's something annoying about it there's something that is the fleeting because it means that a lot of what we may do won't produce change but i wonder what is the kind of thing that we would do that would produce the change that we want anytime that we desire it i think that this conversation is pretty relevant to kind of what the human rights commission is doing i mean we are currently rewriting our bylaws that have not been written over well over 10 years and so a lot of stuff becomes irrelevant and a lot of new issues come up um from what our practices are and what we would like them to currently be so i think that we should definitely as a community a cssjc ever a few years look at the charge and as far as um your point freke um paul is the one that would rubber stamp it and approve it but a lot of the work does come from like the working group like with bylaws right now like i'm working with it with some commissioners and then we get it to pamela she'll get it to the attorneys the attorneys and then paul will just basically maybe change one or few things but it doesn't seem like he pushes back too much on it unless i'm sure something outrageous gets put in there i'm sure he would um but your point of keeping the wording may i i i do think that that is great on cssw's g's part to put in may and to have that autonomy as to what we can advise on i think is super helpful i think adding in this charge of like and inviting the cssjc to advise during conversations that deal with social justice or di i think is what's needed that i can see for our charges that if we leave it to individuals to invite invite us or to seek the advice of us that may not to be where the may is not taken on there and so i think having a more appointed like and if a conversation is happening like an invitation needs to come out to this great thank you first said philip i think um and i i'll take some of the blame because i think when this committee was created some of my vision but you know july 5th happened and there was so much i would don't call it distraction but one of the things i was hoping with cssjc was to have the coaches communicate closely with the with the tan council leadership when issues arise i don't see like the whole cssjc meeting with the tan council on a you know more frequently because of time constraint but you know to have like a collaborative relationship where the coaches you know if things come up you know that is like a standing meeting or something like that to work with the lane and ana the president and vice president so that we you know we're working together was my thinking but none of those things happened and i thought you know that should have come you know from lane she chose not to work with with our coaches or with us that was a deliberate decision that she made not to because that's what this group is all about to work with the leadership and it did not happen our time manager never attended our cssjc meeting he's never attended for once i'm looking at time is 845 so 845 is it 745 but i was i was just about to bring up the time issue because i i do want to hear the update about hammer six i think that this conversation is really important and i think knowing that two of you are stepping off next next month next month oh me i am yeah yeah and and what about uh d though i thought it was three is d sand two what about philip philip i can't speak for anyone i'm just i was referring to miss pat and philip yes i will be stepping down um i i believe june okay later i decided not to reapply it doesn't work my time yeah i i'll spend my time behind this thing i'll be actually effective that way i understand that i i am thinking that the remaining members of this committee should take up this conversation again perhaps when we have new members on um so that we can unify our vision for the committee going forward um so that said i think i would like to well i mean i think let me let me i i guess i would want to tweak that i don't necessarily know if we need to wait for new members we need to continue this conversation yeah this conversation i mean we don't need to continue it today but we need to continue this conversation because this is really the pivotal in terms of what our focus is for this for this group you see what i'm saying so you don't know who you're getting you don't know who we're getting we don't know when or anything like that so i just want it on the agenda for you know the next time and just put it on the agenda but we have it on the agenda as a standing agenda item so that we can continue to have a conversation about this and then when new members come in we fold them in because we don't have time to waste this is too critical this is too important okay so for now in terms of follow-up for the town council meeting i will draft something for next meeting that we will review and i can send out does that sound good for everyone i have a question so well we only have one more meeting left we need to be realistic with time are we meeting twice in june or just once because based on what debra is saying um and it's the last for this term i'm assuming the new members will start in july my time is ending in june so we have one more meeting left people don't people want to meet twice i can't yeah me either me either yeah yeah it's gonna be tough for me too yeah me too so i think june 14th was the date that we had floated one time though so i can make sure we have the correct time i'm i i'm 6 30 i believe is the time that's what i have on my talked about more so i will double check with gen to put 6 30 and not six so june 14th at 6 30 will be the next meeting um before we go to the agenda items for that though can we hear from miss pat about the m or six update so based on the joint meeting that we had with the town council the cssjc and hrc it looks like the town can only do anything through litigation and so that's where it might end up that direction and that's all i can say and once it when once it gets into litigation i will not be commenting publicly so because i i'm not an expertise on legal stuff that's the update i have thank you miss pat yeah and i want to thank you all for your support um i know it took a lot of courage um to speak the truth and history will judge some of our black leaders who continue to question kids that were abused by the police officers only history would judge people that's all i can say well hopefully uh the town manager between now and the 14th will have a good sense to meet with you miss pat um but at some point in june yeah after the budget season and stuff yeah at some point yeah but if the litigation thing kicks in before then i cannot yeah i can't of course what i meant is when the family is secure and attorney then i i'm done yeah right now i'm still the spokesperson that once that happens i can't comment publicly anymore yeah that's understood the history will judge us you know we can't get away with it it's all documented who said why you know um i'm s6 have all the documentation they have proof so it won't be like no question many many years to come our great great grandkids you know what the assessors did you know how did they uh condone injustice yep or pushed against it thank you for that miss pat yeah um i know i had sent out the letter to paul bachleman and to the head of human resources that freke and i had worked on together with the one suggestion that i received um and then i realized i might have done that in advance of our conversation voting and approving on it so that is my mistake um but it did make it to paul so thank you i'm i'm cool with that you said you made the changes right i did yeah um thank you both for working on that yes i believe friday would be mr livingston's last day as the chief of police um so i haven't heard anything about who is going to be the interim police chief it sounds as if there will be an interim police chief until further search can be made and that the intention is for that the further search for our permanent chief would be heavily reliant upon community input i have not heard directly from anybody if that means our group um although again pro proactively we have expressed our interest and desire in being a part of that conversation um so if i hear anything i will certainly keep you all posted on that um and i do know that the league of women voters also sent a letter to the police chief i'm excuse me to the town manager regarding the police chief search and asking that our group be consulted so those are the updates i have around that and i did i don't think we received a packet for this meeting or for the last meeting i will find the edited version of the letter and send it back around so everybody can see what was sent in the end um and hopefully there will be a packet at some point um so again my apologies on that end and i think those were all of the agenda items that we had um so all i want to say is i hope that the interim police chief will not be internal candidate you know if we're going to be doing stuff transparently and committing input i think to really um help some resident i can't speak for everyone that somebody that is not within the first within the apd will be the interim where the search begins will be a lot better because some black brown resident have suffered a lot in the hands of our apd some are good but it will be good to get an outsider as interim and i'm just speaking for myself i hope thank you miss pat because anyone else have anything they want to discuss um that wasn't on the agenda i just wanted to say this is a record for us it's almost like we sprinted for the past two hours actually was on our meeting did you know that it was supposed to be an hour meeting so it went but like an hour for us is two hours that's right so it's less than five which i am pleased with um and i'm looking i don't see anybody in the attendees so i guess there will not be any public comments um so let's see the next meeting is going to be june 14th can we discuss agenda for june 16th yes um so agenda i um i put the charge on there crescent dei updates because that will be a regular meeting where they are supposed to attend um and then i'm we saying goodbye to the members that are leaving yeah goodbye we're going to say goodbye to you guys and you guys are going to say goodbye to us it might be like real goodbye but i'm working behind the scene i may not be making a public comment all the time but i will keep up with you guys i will follow your proceedings well we're going to hold you to it miss pat meaning that i will watch it if i miss some of them yes yeah like i do with time cancel i don't watch if i'm not watching live i will still go back and you know youtube i watch yeah so i will do that um elaborate can you contact the town manager i guess with the email or whatever you're going to be i know you're going to be contacting him just to see you know just to catch kind of ready to get the ball rolling in terms of what's going to be the process for like replacing the members and also the fact that we still have one extra member that we could have always put on this group and we didn't so you know so we need to kind of whatever whoever we replace plus that member and to see if we can get some young people on on this group too because we need at least one young person voice and we didn't have that this whole year but we need moving forward we need to make sure to have at least one young person if not more so i will contact him before and then hopefully report back exactly yeah because usually i mean usually obviously when you see the first committee it's a little bit different i would imagine i don't know if the plan would be to utilize the same interview team that we interviewed with so dr love kisha and um i said they're saying just blinked on his name for a second i apologize well you yes the the two of you did not have the interview because you were appointed from cswg yeah um yeah but i will i will see if that would be the same interview process or if it would be kind of defaulting to the member of the resident advisory committee co-chairs and the town managers interviewing so i don't um that's that's how it is for hrc with uh co-chairs of the committee at least one co-chair so um and and the other thing too is that we always said that we'd like to have at least two cswg members if they're willing so if you know i don't know if you remember one of the one of the joint meeting of cswg and town council i remember town manager saying it would be the initial one and he made he made it sure that he went into the charge yes the initial one can you drop again can you bring the the charge again because i thought we had said that if possible because oh he did he put initial back that was that wasn't the plan was you know if any former cswg wants to be part of it at least two at a time he didn't want that he just won the initial one yeah he did one year i get voted so i and i can just like raise that with him too you know can we if if anybody from cswg is interested in yeah they should be given priority i'm priority we will rather have them at oversight board we need them there remember that was the deal oh definitely but remember there's this there's still like this oh come on there we need them at oversight remember the plan two people at cswg uh cssjc and two at oversight board yeah but remember they haven't even put that board in place yet right now so are there other things we want on our agenda for the 14th um do we need to elect new co-chairs wait until there are new people come on on board two more people yeah come on well unless you need help though but if unless Allegra needs help and and if there's anybody that's willing to take that on possibly it wasn't an agenda it wasn't on oh you mean in June agenda i think that you know i think the new committee should elect their own i think that's the way it's done yeah that makes sense uh you know what do you think freki you'll be you're going to continue so what do you think do you guys want to do it in july or you still want to do it with this group i think you'll be good to wait and see it's very possible that we'll have um extremely competent people and yeah so you'll be good to wait and see but what do you think Allegra did what do i think um i think that it makes sense to wait until there's more people to choose from i mean you know what i will i will you and fill up are leaving so that right now there are four members yeah for the next term um and i i know at first deb had said she was she usually doesn't take on leadership roles i don't know how freki feels about it but there could be other members that would be willing to step into a co-chair role um so i think it's fine to see who comes on board who comes on board um so does not have to be an agenda item anything else for june i did you know recruit some people to go ahead and apply so i haven't heard anything okay good two people yep so i have talking about our charge crest de i updates goodbyes possibly an update about the new member process and then follow up about the 510 meeting response that i will draft um i know some people new people will join but let's say the worst scenario if you don't have new people join what does that mean in terms of making decision as a forum it's not going to happen i think people will join the committee but what if you know like four people are left what does that mean three people's forum well it says it has to be five to seven yeah you just wouldn't be able to vote on any agenda items you can have like a meeting to discuss but as far as voting yeah but they're all telling you we come pretty close to not having a forum in the human rights commission and all usually has a mechanism in place to get people on board before that happens okay i'm just saying because it said it has to be between five to seven member so i'm just putting out big membership will not be a problem but if you have only four people what does that mean for you guys i don't know yeah but you're going to have it what's matter there no no nothing no i'm just listening just listening yeah but it's not going to happen i think you guys have new members yeah i think well i will reach out to paul and do you two have to officially tell paul that you're stepping off is that some process that has to like am i no i don't have to because my term is ending and i chose not to we apply right we apply doesn't guarantee anything but i chose not to i like to be a problem solver so just tell me the problem let's try to solve it yeah and i will all send a paul an email i mean i've spoken to him he knows it's coming but i'll officially send him something i just want to make sure i'm not overstepping my role all right i will follow up with him about the process to get new members on board and um i will send out an email on the seventh to remind people of the meeting and if there are any last minute agenda suggestions that will be so did you get reconformed is that what it is allegra i i expressed my interest in being reappointed and i received a thank you we're thinking about that next week what so i don't know i don't know where they are in the process if they have to send something or if i don't get an official something that i guess what happened why well my my term is also expiring at the end of june um i didn't know so i expressed interest in continuing and we'll see if if that interest is met with interest who did you express that to the town manager yes yeah so i i just and what did you get back i needed something about that they were looking at all the expiring commitments in the next week and they would be following up well i'm putting out publicly that they better be saying yes if not there will be a problem yeah for continuity for continuity exactly yeah i mean i can see you're the only white woman in this group so why wouldn't they want your back but not not just that it's just like you know any of any of us over here if we if our term is ending and we express that we want to continue on why wouldn't we be considered for that you see what i'm saying i mean it makes it it's up to the town manager to i get it i get it but i'm saying for him if he if he is to say no then that's him again you know just making a huge mistake so we just want to you know well i just want to make it clear that it would be him making a huge mistake so i understand that obviously he's the one that appointed us but i i just don't get it so i think it just comes down to form i'm really going to miss you debbie i think it just comes down to african woman exactly he for sure lets everybody stay on the human rights commission that express interest and staying on i think your brother stayed out for hell long and that's what i'm saying expect especially since we know that this is difficult we don't get good members on and everything and now you're going to be quibbling and saying so obviously if you don't get reappointed this going to be a problem i'm sorry it will be a problem this is just an example this is just an example freck it up we can't let the town government just do whatever they want no that's not how it works african woman and then mislead all us that we are angry when the white women are sad if it's different they're not angry yeah speak african women there's a mission there yeah of course i know this is like this is a sad sad day miss pat no next month june will be a sad sad day still i'm already giving up for the sad sad day me and debra we you know we have our thing going with cswg we're still still me you know our friendship you know that's the most most meaningful group i've ever joined in my entire life i've never seen anything like that nobody could break us off it doesn't matter what you say about us we talk to each other yeah the synergy was just yeah we meet regularly we're we're family now yeah we're not going anywhere well if any of them want to join back up we certainly use them i said if anyone wants to rejoin we could certainly use any of them any or you may see swg and be selfish because i want them to join the oversight board yeah they're going to make good trouble there so i i want them to be there mr ross and reanna reanna yeah we selected and the two of us volunteer for this one yeah please don't try to recruit them please i'm begging i'm begging please don't convince them please please it's eight ten it is eight ten and we have come to the end of our agenda so are we comfortable with adjourning yeah all right well i appreciate everyone and we will meet again for our last meeting as this constellation of the css jc in june we're not going out to eat in june like cswg there oh yeah we definitely sure we could we should go out that could be decided in email correct because it's planning an agenda and or a meeting date time to go eat you're saying go eat yeah that is so you know for a minute what wouldn't matter because two of us would have left that's sure are you going to be around philip in july yeah i'll be around in july okay yeah so we get your guys you know you'd be nice at least for philip you know yeah i think it would be a nice goodbye yeah we'll see you later if you will that's right okay all right all right all right bye everybody