 Okay. I'm Andy Watson. I'll call the select board meeting for Monday, June 21st, 2021 to order. Any agenda additions or changes from staff today? None tonight. Okay. Thank you. Any changes or requests from board members? Okay. Seeing none, then we don't have to approve any changes. So moving on to public to be heard. This is a point in the meeting where the public is invited to speak to the board on items that are not on the agenda. The intent is to cover town business in this discussion. So comments should be directed to myself as chair. And please keep any comments that you have civil and avoid making comments about other members of the public and expect to only speak once. This is our, our first go at this hybrid situation where some are participating live and some are remote. I do, we do have the entire select board here in the room with us. So it's, it's, I guess the second time in recent history that we've been together. And we're, we may have some kinks to work through here. Please be patient. We'll, we'll try to get through. So if you'd like to speak during public to be heard as, as in past meetings, please raise your hand in the teams application or comment in the chat. If you're, if you're dialed in on the phone, we'll give you an opportunity to speak as well at the appropriate point. So at this time I'm seeing Gabrielle Smith's hand up. So Gabrielle, go ahead and meet yourself. Thank you, Andy. I just want to thank you all for working through this hybridization. But the view is a little odd. I'm seeing mostly members of the public and Andy Watts twice. And it would be great to have be able to see the select board members view better. That's one tile I have and the others are other members of the public who have their cameras on and Andy's on here twice. So maybe if we could, I don't know, just commenting, it would be lovely to have a better view of the select board members. Thank you. But understandably, I appreciate you all are doing the best can. Thanks. Yeah, thanks Gabrielle. Not not all select board members have actually logged into the meeting because we're here in the room. There should be a view that shows the group. There is it's going to be small though, just because I'm wondering if members of the public aren't speaking. If they could turn off the cameras, then that's going to make. Oh, that helps a lot. Thank you. There are also a number of members of the public that are unmuted so maybe that may help. Gabrielle, is that why you were raising your hand? Excuse me. Gabrielle, this is Evan. Is that why you were raising your hand to speak? I was raising my hand to speak for the reason I already spoke Evan, I was just commenting on, and now I see it twice and I can't see anyone else in the room. Everybody's turned their cameras off. That's right. If I could just maybe have one camera that we could see it all of you who are there all the select board members would be great. So there is a camera in the room that I think is tracking toward the person that's speaking. And so I think that's that may be why I'm showing up because I'm logged in, but then it's also maybe not showing Greg and I would know. Gabrielle, and for those at home who are trying to come in through teams, if you try right clicking on the town meeting TV presenters, if you try right clicking on that and pin them. Or actually, it's called Essex meeting room right click and pin that and that should be, they'll be tracking the speakers and showing the room so that might hopefully be another option that could work well. Greg, I actually just spotlighted the Essex meeting room. I'm on it. Right. So the reason the reason I do is so I can see people's hands up. Otherwise I can't tell you. Thanks everybody for bearing with us as we work out the kinks. This is our first night back. And while we think the governor did a really great job on coven. He really gave us no notice that he was changing this, this part of the law. Margaret Smith. Yep. Yep. I see Margaret Smith with your other hand up Margaret go ahead. Hi, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Okay. I want to congratulate you all for getting back together and my question is just, is everyone in the room required to be vaccinated? We are going with the governor's orders that the restrictions have been lifted because Vermont has has reached its 80% vaccination status with at least one shot. And so we are not checking vaccination status. We are not requiring masks. That is in accordance with the state guidelines. Okay, thank you. Thanks, Margaret. Any other comments from the public? Okay. I'm just going to scroll scroll down here. Okay. Irene, do you want to come up to the microphone? I think you may have to come to the microphone to be heard. Hi everyone. It's great to be back. Also, it was terrific to attend the Juneteenth celebration on Saturday, thanks to all the staff and community members who worked so hard to put that together. It was a two hour event and I'm told it was planned in less than a month. Really amazing as a baby Moomer. There's a lot that I learned on Saturday that I never encountered in school. So it's a really important event and I'm glad that a lot of people in this room were there. There's a short video clip that Ken Sigarello has put together. You can find it on the Essex retorder with the T Facebook page and it'll soon be posted on our website as well. It's just a three minute compilation of some of those speakers. And finally, I wanted to address the fact that the person I'm aware that planned it was a Wiso Makuku. She is currently the interim community development director and I'd like to know when she will be granted or whether someone else will be hired as the regular community development director. Now that merger has failed. We were told that was on hold until merger happened or the vote was done. And now we've had two done votes. So I'd like to see that title of community development director awarded to her if she's deserving or someone else with the town deserves a community development director full time and permanently. Thank you. Thanks Irene. Any other. We have Patty. Patty Davis. Patty go ahead and unmute yourself. Patty's hand has gone down. Back up. Patty you're muted still. Patty your hand is going up and down but you're still muted. Patty do you want to speak? Seems to be having difficulty. Can she communicate in the chat? Patty do you have a question that you could post into the chat? I guess we can't. Definitely here. Patty if you resolve your issues raise your hand again at a later point. Okay. I don't see any other hands and I don't see anybody on the phone. There's a button that says see more. Okay. I can see no other hands. Patty again. If you resolve your muting issue. Raise your hand again. We'll try to squeeze you in some point. Okay. Moving on to business item 5a. Okay. Okay. So I would like to consider approval of reappointment of John Mangan to planning commission. The introduction from staff or. John Mangan is a planning commissioner. His term is coming to an end at the end of this month on June 30th. He is interested in. Being reappointed. There's a letter of support in your packet from the planning commission chair, Dustin Brousseau, who was here tonight. And yeah, recommend that John come to the. And tell you why he's interested in being reappointed and. Chance for you to ask me questions that you might have. Okay. Any questions from. Select board members. Go ahead. Josh is weird. This is weird. In person hand raising. John, would you mind telling us a little bit about your experience on the commission so far. To continue on with it. Yep. So no problem. So yeah, so I've been doing it for four years now and, you know, coming up on. My term expiration, you know, initially I was thinking I was going to pass on renewal. But after talking it through a bit with Dustin, he made some good points, not, you know, just putting out there that I come to realize, you know, I've learned a lot in the past four years, which was my goal and being on the commission to be more aware of what's going on in the town. And to learn more about the regulations and how things get approved and whatnot. And over the past four years, I mean, I think we have a really good team that we're working together with everybody brings something different to the table. And I've learned a lot from all of them. And, you know, it would be unfortunate, I think, to leave at this point in time, I guess, now that I'm just starting to get, I guess seasoned and select the planning commission matters. And, you know, I'm able to contribute now a lot, a lot more than I was when I first started. So that's why I want to continue. Questions. So, John, what do you think is going well? In terms of going well, being part of the planning commission, I think, as I mentioned, you know, the commission we have now, we have a lot of different people from different various walks of life. You know, we have Dave Raffialo's in real estate. We have, you know, Tom, who Tom, you know, he's in IT and computers, but he obviously knows regulations and sending it out. I've learned a ton from both of those guys. John Alden, you know, an architect. There's just so many people that offer different views of everything. Myself, I bring IT and regulatory to the table as well. So, you know, from a technology standpoint and different aspects of quality and regulatory is my day-to-day job. I just, it seems like we're all able to contribute in our own way that's helpful for everybody. So we're always, you know, as we go around our table a lot of times with comments by the time we get fully around the table, you know, people either change their mind on some things possibly or it just solidifies their decision because it's just, we've all jailed really well together. Interactions with staff or the, you know, we have a Tom plan that we're working with any things to highlight there, any concerns or? No, you know, it was a long process with our, you know, our ETC Next plan, but it's been fantastic working with staff. You know, they've been nothing but professional, very helpful, supportive. When we have questions, we go directly to staff and they get back to us instantly. You know, the reports they put together for us in advance are great and, you know, they're always willing to hear us and take whatever, you know, whatever comment we have and incorporate it and, you know, Darren and Sharon and we so, you know, their experience too, you know, I've learned from all of them. So it's been a great experience working with the existing staff. Okay, great. Don, go ahead. Is there any aspect of the planning commission or what you do that you'd like to see changed? Regulations. The regulations we're currently working with, there are some challenges and that's part of why we're going through the ETC Next plan and considering changes for the future. There are some areas that I think are too subjective today. You know, so when one planning commission, you know, if I were to leave and another commissioner come in, you know, the way things get approved, it's just, there's, I think everybody recognizes that and we're doing the best we can with it right now and there are plans to make it better. So that's what's key, I think, is that we're working to change an improvement. That's probably the biggest thing that I think needs improvement. Thank you. Any other questions? Yeah, I was going to turn to you, Dustin. Anything you want to add? Specifically, this is Dustin Brusso for the record. Specifically to the matter of John Mangan, he hit it on the head as he's, you know, planning commission is not a quick fix. It's not a quick learn. You're not going to jump in and immediately be productive because there's so much to learn. There's so much domain knowledge with what is going on in Essex. I mean, Don predates me by, predates me. I'll leave it at that. And I think in John's case, he really has gotten to the level that he is, you mentioned he's starting to be a solid contributor. I don't mean that he never was, but there's a level of knowledge that you have to have before you have a confidence to jump in and start offering something that may be different than the other five or six people at the table. And John has that level of confidence right now, in my opinion. When we were going through the ETC next, John stood up for items that he wanted or thought were appropriate. And it isn't a matter of being confrontational. It's being a matter of being confident and being able to convey what you believe, what you feel is right, and so forth. And I think John does that well. I would not say he's a man of many words, but he's a man of few and concise words. So I wholeheartedly endorse him to remain on the commission and keep this ball rolling. The domain knowledge that he has going through the ETC next process, it would be a shame to lose that when we get into the actual phase of creating the regulations to support that plan. So everything that's been said was great. I appreciate John's commentary about the way things are firing. And I want just you guys to know that I believe he's a solid contributor and a good fit for the Essex Planning Commission. So, thanks. Good to see you. Full disclosure, Dustin, I've been friends for I don't know how many years, 30-some years. Yeah. Greg. John, you and I were talking a little bit as you were considering re-upping. And there was some talk, you were thinking about maybe doing a one-year term or requesting a one-year term or getting reappointed for the full term. Have you given more thought to that that the Select Board should be aware of or where you're coming at? No. So originally, I mean, I guess my only question probably till Select Board is what is in a commitment of, you know, full term. You know, it's obviously an unpaid position. And, you know, is it just a matter of me, like if I were to leave say at the three-year mark, as long as I find a suitable, you know, a replacement that gets nominated onto the board to take my place, is that all there is in terms of commitment? Or, you know, there's obviously nothing legal in writing saying, oh, if you leave at the end of two years, you know, that was just the thing. I'm enjoying it and I want to continue it. It's just, you know, I have my own business. I have a day job and, you know, kids and whatnot. And I just don't, it was difficult for me to say, yeah, I'm committed to four years, 100%. And, you know, like to be a man of my word. So when I say I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. So, you know, if one year were an option, that would have been great. But, you know, again, after talking with Dustin and thinking through the, you know, I guess the fun I've had doing it, learning about the regulations, honestly, as I mentioned, my day job is in quality and regulatory as well for ISO standards. So I'm used to reading through lengthy documents and really looking at those details. And so it seems like a good fit in that regard. So those are the things that, as I mentioned, I think it's a good fit of staying on for full, full four year term versus, you know, leaving and only because, because you would only let me do one. I think I'd rather commit to the four and stay on. Yeah. So there's, there's no way we can, we can force you to stay on the commission. As you mentioned, you're a volunteer. We are working toward offering stipends as an option starting, I think in January of 2022, I believe that's the goal. But no, we can't, we can't force you to stay. Yeah. Let's be clear, these stipends are not going to let you refinance. Anything. Yeah. It's been a great learning experience, as I mentioned, and I do like to know what's going on in my community. So, you know, I have four kids that have been through this school system. I still have two in it here. And, you know, I, you know, I see a lot of the development goes on and I like having a voice in that. So that's, you know, that's my interest in staying on. 20 commissioners are four years. Okay. I might want to look at the recommendation. It is for them. Okay. I think originally we thought when we were talking back and forth, we thought it was three, I think toward the end of our conversation, we did agree that it was four. And that's fine with me. Which is fine. I'm just reading that. Vince, go ahead. Yeah. Hey, my only ask is, and this is just like a person, I guess, is like, if you're going to leave or you need, if something comes up and you can't make the commitment, just try to give as much notice as you can to help staff out. Absolutely. You know, post the position and try to find a replacement. That's, that's all I ask. Absolutely. And when I first started talking about this with Sharon, you know, that was what I said to her is that, you know, I'm in no rush to leave the commission. When I first talked about not renewing or that was us considering that, I was, I told her, I'm in no rush. I don't mind staying on until they're able to find a replacement. And that's exactly how I would leave it because I love the team that I'm working with currently, you know, a couple of them I'm friends with. So I would never just leave on them and leave things hanging. Much appreciated. Dustin, you want to make another comment? I want to make one more and I think, you know, John, this applies to John as well. But since you, the select board saw fit to appoint an alternate to the planning commission, we now have a knowledgeable individual to help relieve some of the pressure. You know, the seven members that are there are knowledgeable and everybody feels committed to being there. But if there's an if there's not an opportunity, if there's an occasion that somebody can't be there, we now have an alternate so we can still keep you know, a seven member board much of the time. So I think that that's a pressure release that you provided to us that is still there and is still in place and it gives us, you know, some backup for the individuals, whether somebody has to be on vacation or their own business is up and running and they have to do something different. We're not incapacitated and it's not somebody coming in cold either by, you know, the alternate is part of the discussions and part of the process so everybody is up to speed and I think that that has helped a lot over the last, you know, year and however long we've had this in place two years, year and a half. So I just wanted to throw that out there and, you know, that was one of the points, you know, nobody should feel pressured to be at a meeting especially now that we have some backup. Right. So that was it. Thanks. Thanks, Dustin. Yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Any other board member comments? So, John, we are, we will go into executive session later in the meeting and we'll have a discussion and staff will let you know absolutely tomorrow what our decision is. So thank you so much for coming forward and thank you for your past service and we'll let you know. No problem. Thank you very much. Everyone have a great night. Okay. Moving on to business item 5B consider approval of slip lining of stormwater pipes on Sand Hill Road. We have Erard Martin from Public Works tonight. Can we all hear me? Yes, we can. All right. Wish was there with you. If I know him be right there in that seat, the hot seat. Tonight we're here before you to the issue is whether the select board will authorize Public Works to contract with Green Mountain Pipeline Services to do slip lining of storm lines on lower Sand Hill a portion of it and to utilize any end of year funds from the Public Works Administration accounts highway and stormwater accounts to assist offsetting some of these costs here in FYE 22. Back last fall in preparation for our summer construction projects here this summer we usually go through and do initial site assessment of the infrastructure and lower Sand Hill Road that portion between Greenbrier and Vermont 117 was slated to be overlaid with pavement this year so we do a comprehensive study of all the infrastructure we assess the storm catch basins and we had some TVing done of the storm lines in that section of Sand Hill and what we found was some severe deterioration of the storm lines in that area we've contracted with Green Mountain Pipeline a couple other times they actually did some slip lining for us a few years back on the upper part of Sand Hill they do great work and got a quote from them we'll send them the videos they took a look at it and they gave us a quote of $109,575 this is a substantial figure being at our maintenance budget for stormwater infrastructure for next fiscal year is $108,500 if we were to go forth with doing this work it deplete that account with one project I talked with Corey over at Green Mountain today they can get us in the schedule but it's not going to be until late summer early fall timeframe they could squeeze us in openings do come up this summer they would allow that and try to get a crew up here to do the work part of the cost associated with that is like I said previously was to utilize some of the existing funding that we are going to have left over from in our budget this year we tried to quantify that it's kind of too early to get an exact number for you folks but we're looking at around $80,000 to $100,000 additional funds that we would have left over in the public works budget and we would like those reallocated and either placed into the capital stormwater account and earmark this specific project for those funds and or have the board dedicate the funds for this specific project to be spent this fall when we do complete the work I'm going to leave it open to questions comments there is a recommendation there I could read through that and Evan but this fall under something we could use the ARPA dollars for I mean water stormwater it seems like you know that might be another avenue to explore I'm not sure if that was given any consideration before assigning I mean I've realized that we have a surplus then you know okay use it but if there's a gap there seems like that potentially but these are the funds that we normally do we're kind of looking at those funds to do something we wouldn't normally have the funds to do so the answer is yes but it's probably something that as we go through the process of what to do with that money this is something that's really sort of needed to do sooner I was going to ask Aaron a question but I'll wait for the rest of the board to ask your questions I actually have the same question any other questions so this is the way I'm looking at this is the assignment of potential fund balance Aaron talk to a little bit about these stormwater lines and the slip lining what is happening in that line and what are the consequences of not fixing it in a time in a timely manner well currently we have quite a bit of stormwater infrastructure that was installed back in early to late 70s early 80s and the material pipe material of choice back then was corrugated metal either steel or aluminum some of it's coated, some of it's not just through galvanic actions in the soil and over time a lot of this pipe has corroded and it usually corrodes at the flow line at the invert of the pipe structurally it will eventually lead to cave-ins especially those pipes that are in the road during a lot of heavy storm events, flow events what we find is we're chasing sinkholes for at least a good month or two after because the water in the pipes just finds its way outside the pipes and this takes material from away from around the pipe usually in the road thus creating all these little holes that we have to go back out and repair and they really nickel and dimus and we did also look into the option of possibly going conventional dig on this and that portion of Sand Hill and I'm sure all know it well it's a hill section heavy commuter traffic lots of heavy truck traffic going to the industrial park there it's just not a very friendly construction site this option although it does come out of a bit of a premium definitely that premium premium and all the negative going full on conventional dig out way that extra cost to do this work so what happened on dens more where the pipe just eroded from underneath and yeah any metal pipe any metal stick in the ground I don't think some of this stuff doesn't have that much potential we don't have a Indian brick going through them but it still would impact our infrastructure, our road infrastructure and potentially cause hazards to the traveling public definitely Vince go ahead what's the I guess projected lifetime of the slip lining versus conventional dig and replace like what is this bias as far as like years decades or is it yeah it's pretty comparable to actual conventional dig and full pipe replacement essentially what you're doing is inserting a bag into the pipe and they expand it and they fill it up add some chemicals and accelerants and throw some steam in there and it kind of cures in place so essentially you're lining the pipe and you're creating a new pipe you know and industry standards are still telling us that we're going to get a good 50 year design life out of this Any other questions I see one hand up in the public or the public comment good I'm sorry any staff staff said in favor of this sorry about we were in favor of this yeah okay Andy champagne can you guys hear me yes we can I was just curious why did you pick the green mountain pipeline how that process come about we've used them in the past and quite honestly it's a pretty specialized it's a pretty specialized type of work they did offer us this quote back this spring there are other companies regionally we had no return calls it's a tough market right now I know it was talking with a lot of contractors their plates and their schedules are full there was a lot of work that was held back from last summer that is now starting to see the light of day and contractors are hard to find they're pretty scarce these days so when you find a specialized contractor like this and they have availability and they can get you on the schedule you kind of have to jump okay that's cool thanks alright thanks Andy I guess let's look and see if there's any other hands I don't see any other public hands Patty has typed something into the chat okay she's saying I remember Dennis let's saying it would be stupid to pave over pipes that need to be replaced in such a busy area right okay thanks Patty my question I guess is looking at the recommendation there are a couple of ifs in there do we need to resolve any of those ifs tonight or is it is this worded such that staff can move forward with it without having to re-address this question in the future I'm comfortable with the recommendation as is it gives staff the flexibility to find the funding any concerns from select board members about how the recommendation is worded okay let me quickly to see if there's any other hands up in the public I don't see any any other comments or questions from the board somebody willing to make a motion go ahead Tom I recommend that the select board authorize public works to move forward with slip lining the stormwater pipes on the lower portion of sand hill road to contract with green mountain pipeline services to perform the services at the earliest available date and three to approve the assignment of any surplus FY 21 end of year public works general fund dollars to this project or alternatively assign any of the surplus end of year public works general fund dollars to the stormwater capital account for this project if such funds are available as determined by the finance director if such funds are not available the needed funding will become available FY 22 highway account in combination with funds from the capital account okay thank you Don you said you recommend I think you mean you move that is there a second second thanks Vince any other discussion all those if not all those in favor please signify by saying aye aye opposed okay motion passes five zero thank you thank you Aaron good night thank you Aaron welcome thank you all right moving on to the next item of business five C discussion and potential action about public forums regarding future of town governance in regards to village independence effort Greg or Evan Greg's got this one to start so as staff has thought about how the town might proceed the town of Essex municipality of the town of Essex might proceed in response to the villages separation independence efforts thinking about how it would be nice to hear from your residents to help the select board make a decision and give some guidance get some guidance on what your residents are looking for in terms of how to respond to that whether it's to support the independence effort try something different just get some feedback and have some ideas so we reached out to Jen Nour who facilitated your strategic planning session she's done some other work for Essex in the past around the firearms ordinance some other facilitation for the boards she's not from Essex so she really has no dog in the fight whatsoever she's from out of town but she's been great for us to work with in the past and she is interested in helping to help out with this project should you choose to move forward with it she has some availability this summer probably July and August but to organize a couple of few public forums we can discuss tonight get some more details if you're interested in this and what you might be looking for and how to go forward staff's thought is to have some questions about what do residents want merger failed twice at the polls why no one's ever asked why as far as I can tell was it because the two parts of town want nothing to do with each other were they not satisfied with the merger plan as presented we don't know maybe your constituents have told you otherwise but as staff I think you might be too regardless of why merger failed what direction do your residents want you to take and I'm townwide village inside outside the village where do we want to go also the independence effort may not be successful whether it's a local vote or whatever passes locally and goes down to the state legislature it's going to have to go through the rounds in Montpelier and get approval there from the state which is not a guarantee so if that falls through for any reason what direction do the residents want the town of Essex to take including the village of Essex Junction but for your purposes representing the town of Essex as the select board what else can be done can the town continue to make efforts towards tax equity can it work on representation issues is there something else that we just haven't heard and missed but as the village is going through its process as the select board decides to support that or work with that or what direction you want to take this is hopefully a good opportunity to hear from your residents your constituents and get some direction and guidance as to how you want to respond happy to try to take questions or have a discussion about it that's great any board member comments questions concerns we wouldn't want to do this I mean that's not an actual question right yes please yeah any the funding comes from where likely out of the select board's professional services budget um if that's not something you're comfortable with we can look at the manager's budget as well for fiscal year fiscal year 22 I have no problem with that other comments Vince or Pat I have concerns about the timing whether we've already talked about how much stuff we have to do over the next couple of months and then we're inviting the secretary of state to another meeting and then we're potentially having Jen now or come for multiple meetings and while we are not setting the timetable for November the trustees are I'm wondering if this stretches into August and we as a select board are holding off on hearing from our residents does that give us only September October to go back to the trustees um not that I mean there's parts of this that really want us to address and that I feel that we absolutely need to you know what do we do if we lose the 42% like I really do want to know about you know what our residents want to do if the legislature doesn't pass their plan like that's critical information um some parts of this I'm not sure you know I worry about the buy-in I guess if village residents are already moving towards independence you know they kind of are sort of all in um you know that's the perspective I'm hearing quite a bit I don't know how many of them are going to want to participate and you know let's let's have a listening session to hear about why merger didn't pass or not um so I guess there's parts of this that I really do want to hear about but I'm concerned about timing and I kind of want to make sure that it's if we do move ahead with this that we kind of make a speedy effort so that we're not left you know kind of hole in the bag in September waiting on you know these meetings to finish up before we can go to the trustees and say this is what we've heard from our residents and what they want to do with police you know I just want to make sure it's done before that so we can have discussions with the trustees and really follow through with those um but other than that yeah like Tracy mentioned you know there's there's stuff in here that we absolutely need to know the answers to um so and my preference would be more forward-looking like you mentioned rather than you know rehashing merger again um what do you see is the vision of the future town of Essex under a separate situation if separation fails but let's be forward-looking and plan for what we want and give feedback on what we want to be right so rather than looking at all the gyrations of what went wrong look at what might make it work better in the future that would be my focus yes yeah that's a great point Vince any thoughts no I just I like what Tracy and Pat have laid out I think um looking forward is definitely a better way to go about it just from like a community mental health perspective um and I think you know giving like maybe posing questions to people about like well you know if separation is successful how do you see the town of Essex if it's not successful how do you see the town of Essex so you're giving people these two kind of choices is something's going to happen we're either going to stay a town we're either going to stay one town or we're going to separate and maybe posing that question to the public and asking them like what is your vision if we separate and if we don't separate that way we can kind of gauge like what the what the public would like to see there's also an interim piece right so if separation does go forward we still have at least I think two budget cycles to go through and and I think there's going to be you know we need to understand what you know whether to continue with tax equity work or not or in which areas to look at and I think there's there's there's there's three pieces to it yeah the other you know I don't I don't know the village's schedule in detail but I don't think they're expecting to look at public comment until September so I don't know if yeah I'm not sure what the timeline is necessarily but I mean they did bring you know last week the idea of what departments they want to share and we haven't even met yet so my feeling right is that they're more aware of what they are you know and we'll go at our own pace you know obviously but you know I think that if we narrow down our focus on this too like Tracy said you know what's going to benefit us you know is looking forward looking to the future looking at you know what's what's good for Essex going forward and less about you know looking back into why merger didn't fail how do you know what could have happened I just like I feel like that's maybe just rehashing stuff that is really inconsequential almost at this point the key information that we need is you know how do we move forward so I guess the going great yeah yeah yeah good feedback thank you all for that just to respond to a couple things to get staff's point of view and make sure we're clear on the same page for the dates of the forums we were thinking outside of a normal select board meeting so it doesn't detract from your normal work whether that's a Saturday an evening or two something like that so hopefully that'll help still work to do but hopefully it's not going to be all packed into one or two select board meetings the second piece is Tracy thank you for framing it forward looking my thought of looking back towards why did merger fail I didn't necessarily mean it to be a negative piece or let's rehash our wounds but what do people want for years we talked about governance and efficiency and what the community can get out of coming together and so forward looking what was not in that plan what do people want that wasn't there and maybe and again I like the way you're framing it just to put some more context into it as to where we were coming from of what yeah what do people want what's going to make this town successful whether it's as 20,000 people or 10,000 people thanks Greg you just said something very interesting that I really don't want to lose I think it's important to vary the meeting times and dates so like you said a Saturday morning maybe a week evening or an afternoon just to give folks options to attend and take part we talked about that not everybody is available at 6 30 at night on a Wednesday or a Monday right some people want to say but whatever time you pick it will probably be wrong but we do want to vary the times so that people who are different stages different places but we definitely do want a weekend day as well in there perfect thank you so the other thing that Pat mentioned is the staff had bandwidth to support this given the strategic meeting we had other priorities that are there so we look at this as a way to help our bandwidth once we start getting the public input to give to you it should actually narrow the focus of what to do the village which I work for as well they are going in a direction they seem to have a focus they're asking you about your participation in that process and once again you're asking the citizens of the entire town about that process and that vision that we have the bandwidth again it's not a full agenda it's one item warning a forum the work is in setting up the room setting up the virtual hybrid however we're going to do it and getting that done but we think ultimately it will help with our work the other question I have is whether the content format of the meeting we can ask Jen to do that for us Jen's the expert she's the professional in terms of moderation facilitation she'd be working with the staff to work through what we're trying to get out of it certainly this is just the start of the conversation send us emails stuff you want to see on there and we're happy to work with Jen to try to make it happen the goal is to hopefully keep these things to an hour and a half two hours we'll see who shows up just to get that feedback and get some guidance and work with Jen hopefully she can get a report to the select board by late August maybe we can work out some of these details some feedback and guidance within the semi near future to help you with your decision making you're asking the board to send you specific items that they would like to see addressed or covered somehow in this and then Jen would figure out how to work that in I'd think so if there's anything in particular sure but it's her job to weave it in you're not asking us I would agree that you don't want us to ask the content the narrative or whoever is going to be put together another question could we have Jen touch base with the equity group to have her reach out specifically so that we get some of our diverse and active members of our community who are already in the process of being involved I think that something that I'm remembering that we want to have as an umbrella that topic during our Saturday meeting try to apply that to as much as we can I'm just watching the hands go up on the houses it's all for Andy so we can come up with this question sorry yeah maybe I'll think of it reserve the right to come back we'll circle back to the board before we finish the topic anyway any other board comments or questions let's see Brian Sheldon is up with the presenters so I can't tell if his hand was up first but since he's at the top of my list I'm going to let him go first go ahead Brian can you hear me chair Watts I'm a little bit curious and disappointed about the need for feedback on whether Essex Junction independence goes through or not first in my personal opinion independence is much more likely than this discussion implies unless the members of the board are talking to different folks in the legislature than I am the strategy of hoping that independence will be rejected by the ledge is wishful thinking second if I'm wrong which is possible of course there's a timing issue but if you're going to go through the discussion earlier then you can even get the results from a bunch of public hearings the public has spoken they Essex wants separation the village voted clearly for separation and the T.O.V. in April knew very well that a vote for merger was a vote against merger was a vote for independence it's time to plan for independence Ms. Delphia frequently says and I agree with her thank you Thanks Brian you see Andy Champagne can you hear me now yes so yeah I'm a I'm a village resident and I'm a hard no for separation my question is why is the select board even talking to the town because from my opinion that they do not have any authorization to do that there was no vote I don't understand the select the town of Essex didn't vote for that so they shouldn't be even talking to the village in my opinion and then I'm also curious about how the money is why is the town required to spend time and money to deal with this separation thing the topic we're talking about is having a public session to hear comments our discussion here isn't the merits of whether separation is an appropriate thing to move forward with are your comments relative to the discussion we want to have with the town residents okay so the reason why I voted no is because I saw it as a power grab and there's a huge power struggle going on in the village for whatever reason yeah thanks Andy Betsy Dunn thank you Andy well just to support Andy Champlain when Patrick was talking about it he was talking about how the select board needs to move forward because the trustees have asked us to get this answer to them about the rec department and the parks and the police so I think that there was a little confusion there for him on that as well and for me the need for the forums would be a good idea to talk about what we do want because I do believe the charter needs to be adjusted maybe we don't have to write a whole new charter but I firmly believe that we do not need to give them any answer in the next four months about what we're going to do with the police department even longer and the parks recreation and all the other shared items that they wanted to do and not share any of the other ones and just give those up because we have until 2024 when those budgets as he again the discussion here is about a public forum to have a discussion having it looking forward as Tracy said I think is a good idea thank you our intent is to represent the best interests of the town as an entity the whole town okay thank you Erin Dickinson hello sorry you're going to hear kids crying in the background thank you for by the way allowing people like me to still attend these meetings I think it's great to hear from the town and get some feedback as you look forward I think though you have been given a timeline for November I just really as a town resident who's been watching these meetings for the last year and a half I just hope that regardless of that timeline you've given that you do continue to listen to the public and be very thoughtful in your stewardship of how the separation goes it's much easier to plan and do everything right than it is to hastily get to that point of separation and then have to backtrack and fix things so I'm glad that you're planning to hopefully hear from the public and I do hope that you keep your cadence and not feel that you have to be rushed into making these decisions so I'm glad you're here. Thank you. Rachel I just wanted to say that while I appreciate the reframing and I agree that there is a need for positivity I also think that there is a huge need to hear from residents about why this failed there was so much misinformation during this vote that it would be an extreme not let the public be heard on this issue. Thanks. Thanks Rachel. Let's see I think I saw George Tyler go ahead George. Yeah thank you Andy I think that having your public forms is a good idea but and I think what I'm about to say I believe is relevant to this but I think it's a good idea to have these forms but I think the framework and how you approach this is absolutely necessary and this concerns another part of the agenda item which says that the town serves 22,000 people and I think this is a piece of information that is highly debatable and I think this is relevant to your forms the town does not serve 22,000 people the village has its own ordinances its own planning and zoning infrastructure and our own economic development community development. Andy let me just please finish because the reason this is relevant it goes to the other pieces of your form and the reason is this people in the town believe that the town is the great benevolent provider of municipal services and it is not and by implication that says the village services are not important and are frivolous and people in the town believe this you need to clarify that before you go into forms when we I would I've urged you in the past to approach merger the same way the school districts did every every school district was respected for what it brought to the table people in the town didn't say we have a middle school here in the town already why does the village want this public forms coming out please that's before I'm telling you I'm saying that I think your form is a good idea but only if it's done within the right framework okay and you know exactly what I'm talking about you've got to pop these myths and tell the people in the town the truth thank you okay thanks Jerry okay um Andy you already spoke once is that at your hand up again or is it your previous I'll I'll defer you I have something more to say I'll I'll let others speak who haven't yet spoken first okay let's go Mary post hi um I'd like to I want to be as positive as I can I really love the fact that maybe the public will be heard historically I don't believe we've been listened to at all over all these years I have attended more meetings that I can count more Saturday day-long things and when the reports come out they never really include what was talked about by the people it always was focused on what the leadership you know the select board of the trustees want and I feel like just listening to the person who just spoke before me now that kind of gives you an idea of what it's been like for us we just spent $50,000 during the merger vote to be listened to and we were not listened to to be positive I think it's a great idea I want to know how can you what are you what can you tell me about how you're going to do things differently so that we know we're going to be heard a suggestion I have is that when all the information comes in that the report not be written by anybody that's on the select board of the trustees that it be written by someone who is independent so that you don't have somebody like we were told after the $50,000 democcal what the response was what it actually wasn't so thank you thanks man Annie Cooper I'm in a million percent agreement with George Tyler I did not appreciate Andy that you cut George off I think it was very valid and important for him to say those things if you as the select board do not publish how this information it is of great importance that the select board take the reins on what information is being believed in understood out in the community you cannot sit impassively while misinformation flies around it is not okay anymore I will I will not personally stand for it any longer it is past due time for the select board to stand up and provide combat to combat misinformation so these hearings must absolutely not allow the constant and incessant misinformation to be stated if I come up here and say every day if every meeting I come to every public hearing I come to I say chair Delphia chair Delphia and do you have to constantly correct me that Tracy is not the chair that's crazy you can't I can't keep saying the wrong thing and then we keep living through that to the point where people start to think that Tracy is the chair because I keep repeating it so during the public hearings we need to remember that we're all the town that those who live in the village are the town we need to make sure that when we refer to the town we mean all of us and if we're talking about who the town is going to be after separation that that's clear too so if we're not providing information and we're not combating misinformation we're not doing our town a service so I agree with George Hill hardily please make it clear about how services function and separation does not have to be decided by the town so I think the public hearing should be moral discussion about what these pieces would be about direct abortion to police and those things unless about whether or not the town is not going to decide separation of villages thank you okay let's see there have been a couple of comments in the chat should I anything in there that we need to read aloud Patty you still don't have the ability to unmute Adam Newhart had his hand up earlier yeah there's a couple of hands but I've been seeing chat messages pop up too and I didn't want to ignore them um um Patty asked me to read what she typed in here so I'll go ahead and do that um she says people here do not want another vote on merger ever they're angry they want village to leave the town Patty I don't think this is relevant to our discussion of having public forums so I'm going to skip the rest of that um this is next one's about the representation this is good input but it's not it's not relevant to our having um the forums okay so Patty I read your comments and um I'm a little they're not they're not germane to our discussion about having public forums you've got opinions in there that you might want to express about the topics that may come up in that forum um the discussion is not about the forum itself so I will before go reading all of that see who else is up uh Adam Newhart hey thank you um I just wanted to take the time I do appreciate um the opportunity for us to have forums just to get input on where we want to see the future of the town um I also do want to second Rachel's comment I don't know how we would do it in a constructive way we kind of get a vibe about the us versus them scenarios that are going on with these discussions and these comments right now um but I do think it's important to find some sort of constructive uh way to discuss how we got here or at least to discuss and understand what people understood about where we came from in order for us to figure out how we want to move forward regardless of if separation occurs or not um so thank you thanks Adam uh Andrew Brown thank you Andy can you hear me okay yes we can great thank you I agree that the forums are a good idea I mean anytime that we can hear from the community anytime we can hear from the residents it's always a valuable thing to do um and I would commend the process in doing so uh I would again to spare time I would agree with what you've already heard about concerns of how we can help to really combat that in the moment um instead of allowing them to fester and I'm not talking about in these meetings but in those forums that you have if there's any way to combat the misinformation then and there I think that would help to prevent the spread of those continuing I would also just say that in terms of um this process I think Pat had said this earlier as long as this does not cause any kind of a delay in the discussions that I think you're about to have an executive session about how the town select board and village trustees could talk about police and parks and rec moving forward um as long as there's no negative impact with that then certainly a great thing um because as Andy had said you know we have that timeline of November and that's that's already pretty firmly set uh the last thing I would say is there's a question before about public comments in the separation time frame uh officially we're going we're taking public comment as we go we have surveys uh that we are seeking feedback in after all of our work sessions but if you're talking about once we have a final plan and sort of that public hearing process on the final plan that's not going to be until August or September but again taking public comment as we go forward so there's no time better than the present because as we all know if you wait too late in the process to have your opinion heard by that point in time may not be able to be heard by the public. Thank you. Thanks Andrew. Uh Gabrielle Smith. Hi thanks Andy um I think that these forums are less about positivity uh in general sort of future seeking but it should be very focused your staff has given you information they're proposing that you want to learn from residents and I would suggest that from the design in such a way for that information to be gathered and um I want to really reiterate how critical it is for our community going forward that these uh both the forums but also each of you really be mindful of ensuring that the public has accurate information and one of the things I'm going to request of all of you is to stop clarifying who we are within the town of Essex. I don't want to be called someone who lives inside the village or outside the village for your purposes when you say the town of Essex or someone who lives in the town enough said I don't ever hear you clarifying if a person lives in Lang Farms or Essex West or the town is the town and you shouldn't have to clarify that you're also talking about me and people who live in this part of town. We all live in the town and I think it's uh reinforcing the sense that the town is actually the part of this community where that doesn't include the village of Essex and we all know that to be false and so it would be helpful um I would sure appreciate it would help me feel more included that the town is the town and we're all members and residents of the town of Essex thank you. Thanks Gabrielle Let's see next I see Bruce Post Hi Thank you very much just quickly having studied uh now different uh separation events that have gone through the legislature including the Wunuski thing in 21 the Brattle borough thing a few years later I spent a lot of time studying the 1999 vote and uh I guess we had 11 or 13 uh mediation sessions uh and that failed uh I think one aspect of any forum and looking forward is what would a new town of Essex look like what would we want it to look like if the village is successful in separating we will be the people left behind and in many of those legislative endeavors where for instance they talked about the city of Wunuski the legislature also talked about the new town of Colchester which Wunuski was pulling out of so I think we should not be reactive I think we should be forward thinking uh we don't have to uh if separation goes through and the legislature approve it I would hope we would have done some thinking ahead of time as to what the remainder of this community would look like and not wait until then let's do some downward thinking thank you thanks Bruce uh let's see um Andy you spoke before Andy Champagne do you have a additional quick comment I'll let everybody else go before me uh let's see I don't see anybody else who had I see hands oh sorry my apologies go ahead yes come up in the microphone please Irene thank you we just like to address a couple of the things that I've just heard um first of all misinformation has come from the highest levels of staff and elected officials so Irene this is the discussion about the forms that we're going to have important that if we're going to call out misinformation during those forums it's very hard to call out that misinformation if you're someone who believes something that's not true staff did not bring out any misinformation agreed I just want you to know that here here I'll put it in writing to you up later thank you I look forward to it to Gabrielle's comment I'm fine with her contributing to these forums as a town resident but I also want to her to read what she's working on separation um I heard earlier that people did not understand why merger didn't have Irene yes somebody's interrupting could we who's gonna mute them Irene are you talking about the forums that we're going to have I am and I was told that part of the reason you might have them is because you wanted to understand why merger didn't pass right we'll have those discussions during that forum this is not a forum this is not I'm not going to explain to you why merger didn't pass Irene this is not the discussion about why merger didn't pass this is a discussion about having a forum to discuss that I know it's an interest and I'm addressing why I think you should or shouldn't have a forum to discuss why merger didn't pass is that correct proceed those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it like your predecessors on the select board all the people I've served with the people who served on the select board before and since I've been on the board have not wanted it's difficult to look back but I would urge you to at least look back to recent surveys and votes and even if you just look back to 2020 when Andy came back from the polls and told his peers the town outside the village residents are telling me there's nothing in the merger for them that's really great feedback for you to go forward with and to hear again from people because this select board couldn't hear it the first time you could also as another person mentioned look at the merger survey results for which $50,000 was spent in the summer of 2019 you could also look back at the day-long public session that we had in 2018 which Jen now are very skillfully navigated people came forth and many notes were taken and presented back to the select board and I swear the select board and trustees buried that faster and sooner than Jen herself could have been paid by the town for conducting that it's not the gathering of information that's a problem it's the fact that people hear things they don't want to hear don't want to believe them and then bury that input we have plenty of input from very many years telling us why things like merger wouldn't pass and then didn't pass why separation will likely fail why the rec district didn't pass in 2016 and I challenge you not to go gathering new data but to discover all over again or maybe for the first time that information because those people mostly still live here throughout the town that information is still relevant and finally the town should be voting on whether or not to let the village separate so please consider looking into that Irene and discussing that excuse me Pat only the chair should interrupt speakers please okay thanks Irene I see a number of hands up that have been up before I don't want to get into a back and forth Mr. Chairman is it possible to just move this along for a vote yes we could bring it back to the board at this point again because everyone has everyone there's no one with their hand up that hasn't spoken before and I don't want to get into a back and forth or an argument between members of the public so I guess the question is are you looking for any kind of action from us tonight or just the okay to go forward do you want a motion or something or what is it you're looking for please authorization for staff to work with Jennifer and our to start scheduling and planning the forums so have you asked for is there a memo with a recommendation in it just want to make sure where we're headed and then back to the board any comments based on what's been heard from the public or any comments I'd like to go ahead I'd like to go ahead with the staff's recommendation to do these public forum I don't hear any new comments so I'm going to move that the select board authorized staff to organize facilitated public forums this summer to hear from residents on the topics of village independence in the future of governance in essence thank you Tracy thank you Don any further discussion all those in favor please say aye aye motion passes 5-0 thank you okay moving on the next the next business item is a will be an executive session well we'll have an executive session at the end of the meeting to two executive sessions at the end of the meeting the second one will be discussion about the village proposal okay moving on to consent we have a motion to approve the consent agenda I move that the select board approves the consent agenda thanks Vince for a second thank you Don any discussion about anything in the consent agenda okay hearing none all those in favor please say aye opposed okay the consent agenda passes 5-0 moving on to the reading file any select board comments Mr. Chairman I would like to thank excuse me this for a minute Christine Hammer and Diana Woods for their long-term service on the conservation and trails committee and to congratulate the cemetery committee on the award that they were presented last Saturday I actually was approached by a friend of mine who works at Fairtime in Coolchester it was totally relevant because I guess on June 29 is municipal employee day where municipal employees can go to get free bowling that's Fairtime so I thought I'd mention it that staffers we were feeling up for it or want to send some of your people over anyone who's a municipal employee of many of the towns in the area can go to Fairtime and get a free game I think we got an email to that effect I just want to echo comments made earlier about the Juneteenth celebration on Saturday very well attended I was impressed that there were so many people there and it went off so well especially with the limited time frame that they had to plan it was great thanks to staff and the equity task force the school district the students that took part everybody who performed or read a card to a great event And Uiso Mutuko really deserves tons and tons of credit for pulling the whole thing together and organizing it all those volunteers that's exactly what I was going to say but thank you to the public for coming out thank you for the committee's work thanks for all the volunteers the people speak and talk about the community it's a gentleman who said he'd moved here feels welcome but willing to work knows the work isn't done