 So welcome to this talk and we're pleased to welcome Leo Findeisen and Markus Zimmermann Leo is a researcher focusing on the social communities around constructed languages and that can be for example language like Esperanto, but also a language like Python And he's currently working at the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna in a research projects on artists books Let's simplify that. He was the keynote speaker at events like the Aztelektronika Transmidiale Lett Awards and Republica Markus has studied computer science in Berlin and he has studied also architecture in Vienna, Buenos Aires and Chien-San He has participated in various projects exhibits and lectures and Together they will be diving into the world of art today for us and Introduce the fluxus movement and especially compare the ideals of the fluxus movement with tools and methods of online Communities today so very interesting topic The name of the talk is fluxus cannot save the world what hacking has to do with avant-garde art of the 1960s So please help me welcome again round of applause for Markus and Leo 12 fluxus ideas one globalism two unity of art in life three intermedia four experimentalism five chance six playfulness seven simplicity eight implicativeness nine exemplativism 10 specificity 11 presence and time 12 music howdy future fluxus 12 fluxus ideas one globalism two unity of art in life three intermedia four experimentalism five chance six playfulness seven simplicity eight implicativeness nine exemplativism 10 specificity 11 presence in time 12 musicality So, how'd we become welcome this talk will be in English Because English is a coordination of behavior in a semiotic system the English language that more people understand than German and one of the 12 ideas that you have heard of fluxus is globalism So please Always choose the language that more people understand. You know that this might be a trap for a lot of projects But you but we should we should acknowledge the fact Now, thank you very much for attending today. I Want to make a short Presentation of what the presentation should be a meta presentation. We We have been researching Marcus Simmerman and me for the last five years And we sort of apologize about the future in fluxus It was really for an application in Vienna that we had to do it but That that is a little history our history, which which is quite interesting But we were in a in an interesting real Experimental project with the city administration. They invited us to renew their ways of dealing with this and And when we got resistance, we try to resist the resistance and this is the future in fluxus Which made this possible? How did this come yes, I have been teaching in the Academy of Fine Arts and As a media philosopher, so imagine you have students of restoration of architecture Some people from the philosophy department of the University. You have painters. You have people who print So you have the old academic arts and I try to invite them To understand before it happens what will come in their future from people who program Is it possible at all to do art in programming? Is it possible at all to do art in mathematics? so these these things we talked about and so We talked also about Networked communities in the arts of the 60s and 70s especially So there was situationism I could see that there was art and language and we will come to that and The aim is then before we could come to fluxus and then the price question is fluxus still alive Can an art movement be alive without people no art is a form of tradition if you don't Decide to be in the tradition. You won't be able to deliver and transfer it Registe Bré a French media theoretician calls one very important Thing that we can decide to do is to transfer a tradition Of course, this is an avant-garde tradition. This is a tradition of tongue-in-cheek of being Irreverent to institutions to museums etc So in a way what we hear today is the 68 ideas. Where have they gone? Do we have to now as a culture we are in deep doodle as Spielberg would say In our culture at the moment, I think if you have been listening to some of the Other talks you will know that we have to be quite inventive not only as individuals but as groups Maybe we have to be more inventive to clarify and polarize design goals for specific technical parts But also for how do museums? How can they work together to save the privacy? That's a very interesting question, no Because we pay a lot of tax money not only to the secret services, but only to the art services of our Societies Now when I was teaching the students I Could see that there was one movement which calls itself a mon movement. I Could see that they call themselves fluxes and Somebody says fluxes is this and we will hear some of these definitions and others say the special thing about fluxes is that it is Undefinable, okay So they frustrate you in the beginning if you're a scientist you want to have clear concepts and you won't say one two three But this could be a bit the same reason why it's hard to write a history of fluxes But actually because it's 50 years old or over 50 years. It is not at all impossible Right. It's it's it's behind us, but if you try to write About for instance the cows computer club 95 to 2000 a history It's not so easy to do it. Why because the cows computer club is a very horizontal presence in time environment a mailing list a chat logs Announcements flame wars So we have to reread them and then nice enough people from the 95 to 2000 from the cows computer Club would still be living so we can work with four people for two months and then we send them the draft so they can see because they are Empirically time witnesses of the presence in time, which is now 20 years ago Now this is what Marcus and me could also see that the they are still living fluxes people Yeah, so when we started in 2010 We asked some friends whether they have friends who know whether fluxes people are still living because in 62 it started And yes, they are and you will see them, which is great So now this is from From the web of course and some people say some of the fluxes says we invented the web actually so But they're not very loud and this but maybe they're correct Maybe they're correct, but of course the question is dude. Did they win the technicalities? No, no most of that was in CERN DARPA in the years before in America So what did they mean we invented the web? I think they They invented methods to do things in distributed collaboration Which is Which is quite a fine tuning To work with each other over time, but I think this is something which makes a big quality in fluxes And that means that they're not such an gated community Yeah And if you see here, it's also very interesting The normal one two three that all the philosophers do yeah, there's only one world know the world is divided Or you go more on the dialectical Hegelian to say no, there's always the third option lurking in the background and Here we start with the one the fluxes that most art collectors and art historians care about at this time We're talking about around the millennium here 2015 years ago So fluxes with Matziunas we will see of him also Matziunas is a Impressario they call him he's not the leader. He wasn't the center, but he had this very They called him a detail man Yeah, he was very very sure about what fluxes value should be and which artists should be on it And if some artists went ideologically or with a funny work or in a too big institution with too money he would say I Have a hundred name lists of fluxes in New York and Namjoon Pike is out now But I have some other people I can put in so This is actually a very important anecdote in the fluxes history that Namjoon Pike and others visited Matziunas and on the deathbed to say it's okay again Also in the So what we're talking about here is oral culture I would claim that the cows computer club in a lot of aspects of their communication is an oral culture in the medium of Chats and message boards and mailing lists And Oral cultures are always normally you do interviews and then they come up with stories and say X went to Z And then they had a struggle and then D came on and now yes, this was it So this is how myths and legends are also building and that is quite good for a community But it's can you know the the the helpful ingredient can become a poison can be too little or too much So also there has to be a collective intelligence to make a very improbable Status of a large distributed community of many intelligences many people living in very different countries Which is actually what is evolving now? and Maybe it's it's there is no way for anybody To hinder and to have an obstacle in front of the fact that we will become a global culture But maybe we become a totally surveilled global culture We can go everywhere, but nothing is different in the sense of somebody else has more memory of me than my best friends All right, that's not a good start for freedom But of course we are here and we we applied for a talk to to start something rather of course we want to Convey you some information about the deep history of what is fluxes today. It started really in the First World War Maybe even earlier, but in the First World War there there's a cluster of people coming together in the Dada movement And then the question is whether it's still living And and now you can make I could say please become a non-artist of the fluxes tradition Right come to our club and but we wouldn't know where is our club? Right. It's a bit like the pirate bay people or the Peter Byron the the lawyers of the MPAA in America the people said ah you're sharing your stealing of films and They thought that the pure up your own who had the idea for the pirate Bay Torrent website website for sharing stuff Sharing films books everything they thought there would be a like anarchist Army of 20 people, you know having a big room with guns and want to want to free the copying of everything But actually it was just before students in two or three towns, you know having for the chat But they just had an idea and the idea was to be resilient The idea was to have the pirate Bay online Whatever they do because of the distributed technical infrastructure and the many friends you have on the world Which is still true by the way pirate Bay is still reachable But you know two of the people who were then the technical inventors Were in jail and one is far away and don't doesn't come back to Sweden So you pay a price also so the fluxes that most art collectors. Can you please go to the first again? I'm back So 80s till now he says that in 2000 around Fluxes with Matsunas fluxes after Matsunas new directions in fluxes So this is a fluxes making this fluxes activities and events created by new generation of people drawn to fluxes largely ignored at this time by collectors at historians So that's also important You have to understand that there are incremental phases where there's a fruitful encounter of old and new without anybody noticing Which I think happens to a lot of communities here at the cars computer club Yeah, when when old veterans who invented the spreadsheet, you know come to come here and you wow You were really the first human being to think of this Which is a great anthropological feeling Yeah, that that actually we if we work together or if we if we meet in an interesting way, which the whole Congress I think is and it has very strict rules and Developed rules to make 13,000 people possible Yeah So that's a sort of community social design What what is so so we want to be open so we can't allow people who push closeness And say this is my freedom Yeah, so all these dialectics of the values that you convey and how it then really works in real time And now they go back and say unexplored territory. That is our past our developmental past, right? So this looks as is broadly focused on human creativity culture and consciousness it does not this does not rely on the issues of or Agendas or history of art for its meaning and success. That's very important Fluctuous defines itself as being fed by outside of art and This is one of the 12 fluxes ideas, which you saw in the beginning Marcus Zimmerman has done this this trailer for our participation in the donor festival Now I have some questions for you. Somebody of you know the donor festival cramps. How many? Okay, super. So that's so Somehow like a network performance festival. We were performing next to Laurie Anderson maybe you know her from the 60s 70s and and James Blake Who's you know limits to your love this guy? But we were there to do conceptual interventions because as you will see fluxes has musical values Conceptualized for social encounters well fluxes cannot save the world is by itself by a fluxes it's 2002 and I just want to want to Let your ears ring a bit Ben Vautier a French fluxist calls a little exhibition in In Italy in 2002 fluxes cannot change the world. What do you think were the talk before? Were the young people who said but yeah fluxes and we should start and da da da or was he himself? You know just frustrated by all these years of very every abstract talking and Whatever, I don't know but you could ask him actually Ben Vautier I think has the most creative website of a nearly 80 year old in the world Because we got to know him his grandson is doing all the technicalities And if people come they want to make interviews there so they work together collaboration cooperation is a is a big Ideal in fluxes so please We now have We start in the 19th century Okay, I'll see you again who knows Brian Eno Right who knows What Eric Satie would have to do with Brian Eno? Okay, so that's like like two or three percent of those who know Eno Who knows that Brian Eno was visiting Julian Assange some weeks ago Just as many as as who know that he had to do with Satie So Brian Eno was a was a student at one of our great teachers of media art Roy Ascot and Brian Eno is known for ambient music music that is not there To tell you something in a way It's an interior design and it can be gray music Because gray in the outside makes your own thoughts flow Your feelings are different and something can be expressed coming to the outside Depending on your articulation Eric Satie was one of the first to write modular Ways not the first actually people like Fresco Baldy and the music history and so they had to look from the organ Whether still people are waiting waiting for the Christian thing about the eating. Yeah So a very long row and so so he he he flipped the page and he had modularized cords Yeah, so so you can make endless pieces of music Because they said you can you can go this way from this court or this way from this court And then you can go circles which of course media artists love a circle a loop a reverb a delay Wow Let's do something with it So Satie and and we have three guests here because we will now move step-by-step from the 1910s to the 1980s and then I invite you to fall into the gap with me Because I believe that from 78 to 91 One or two years more or less. Yeah, depending on what happens because history doesn't happen in clear years But but it's also doesn't happen in one five years or the other. It's it's not important. No, no Mostly two or three or five years. They're the real thing happens Yeah This also is a human history because people might be influenced influenced by idea, but only two years later. They actually They they conceptualize how they can make interesting stuff with it or They they don't have fear anymore. They have the courage very easy to say cool. I'll do this Have you ever thought? When Julian Assange for instance decided to I'm doing this, you know, I think especially in the cows computer club There are hundreds of people that wonder What happened in this guy? Yeah to do this and now I want you to wonder a second time why Brian Eno visits him because Brian Eno is very very sensitive to good social interior design and And and one of the most important people to show us the dirt and To show us the third-party members that are watching when we want to get to know each other and Actually without I would say that 90% of what's happening bad now is without big reason right We are it's irrationality of the interplay of institutions and of some powers that are bringing us in big trouble, but So Sati is something where digital courage or full boot org who know of you knows digital courage Yes Okay So so we have here part alone and I think he is he is one of my first people of the empty 80s I call it the empty 80s is where I don't know what happened to distributed art practices Yeah, where are they now in the artwork? We say had it was the time of Kippenberger and and and Pike, you know got older and Yes, but we have him here. We also have somebody from the 90s when something like the fluxus movement Can reboot on HTML maybe on bbs? Yeah What they call and have practiced as male art in the 70s is Very easy to reboot in the 90s with the new Distributed structures that you not only can say I want to be a note and they say yeah dance for us, then you get the note No, they'd said don't dance for us here is the software to make your own note and with this note You can make your own mushrooming horizontally in your town in your real space Wow So presence in time curated by yourself Balaton board systems and then HTML etc. So let's go on What we see here happened through the first world war People who were very anti bourgeois and they were vehemently anti-war and One of them there's a group of people and also what what is is now parallel or analogous to the fluxus 50 60 70 years later is that the people come from quite different disciplines If you're an opera you have to know singing you have to know stage design you have to know music Yeah, so it's it's in itself a meta art form So a lot of people came from theater, but also they studied jurisdiction the law and Here we have who go by and this is an important woman in the beginning of the cabaret Voltaire He was calling himself the magic Bishop Yeah, and he had to be actually two people had to Carry him into into the room at cabaret Voltaire and he was he was Proclaiming what a new religion the death of God again the death of God The B B series no he was he was practicing concrete poetry He was dealing with what I do here dear This would be a bit more dadda is there an animal going to death at the moment. No, it's dadda But it's not something that nice bourgeois men and women would come in the rope in the evening To have the white wine in the white cube Yeah, so irreverence against bourgeois representation Is is one value that you have here and it's called the cabaret Voltaire and if you're interested more so please go to dadda and all of most of but Always a science it's good to have multi-perspectives on one thing and With these people with these like dadda movement situation is letrists fluxes It's always good to to not only go over one person into the labyrinth Yeah, so the next place Then we have here is a one of the first Dadda Parche Composé Pratt Tristan Sarah that was next to who go by one of the most important So these people Invented a lot They had they had new ways to to form objects and to make a mask out of it. That is now a painting Or they said, yeah, let's let's totally Destruct the way we read a newspaper. Let's have different layout Yeah, or let's day. Let's do automatic things. That's not proclaimed that our talk and our language Published on paper is really, you know talking about the world. Let's have the new eyes and new ears developed By going very structurally very analytically very constructively very minimally Yeah to how a structure of an artwork is composed Let's go to the next place So here's the Congress of the constructivist Dadaists Yeah, and I wouldn't say yeah, they were making fun But it's sometimes violent fun and sometimes serious fun Yeah, if you only have the fan scala for Dadaist situation is let this fluxes I think fluxes is most fun the situation is little fun Yeah, a lot of lot of has maybe to do with Hegel dialectic and You know two dialecticians who fight with each other. What is the best third way? is a very nice situation to be exploding so Yes, this is I just tell you inside of the time and of the stress of the First World War, but in Switzerland and Switzerland is neutral Which means that if you're appalled by what's happening if you see how let's say the 19th century Bourgeois world is sort of collapsing. Yeah, they don't have new recipes. They don't go new ways so what happens when sort of Fiery nationalisms become national sects fighting each other that was Europe in the First World War This is what the European Union is built against It by the way happened the second time And always Germany You didn't hear this it's about that we are so happy Europeans that we all should happily live together So here we have Marcel Duchamp next to Eric Satie. He is one of the inspirators of how he understood his art form He would say gone things like the real artist has already gone underground Do we compare him with Tintoretto? Michelangelo Do we compare him with Gustav Mahler? So the real Gustav Mahler has gone underground So that would be the question that that we would start off a discussion within an art academy because the people actually want to become artists So these this is their history In Fluxus, I try to Present this for the ones of you who are interested as something that you you have to research for yourself actually There's a lot of DIY, but also cognitive DIY Duchamp, you know who knows the ready mates of Duchamp Ready mates means that you put the normal of the outside into the Unnormal museum space where only abnormal masterpieces are so you put you put the unmasterly piece that was done in industrial production and you put it into the white cube Which was a scandal at the beginning and of course this guy knew that the scandal would come so He would you know and then so he could push the buttons of the a bit more idiotic Idiotically people of the art critique in Paris. So he put an urinoir There the from ten the other fountain, but normally the fountain is the man Urinating in the urinoir So that was a scandal then but then he also said yeah, I'm bored by art. I really Ready mates. I look for objects that are not really fascinating me. That's much too loud I Don't look for objects that bore me Yeah, that are just nothing. I look for objects that are in the gray zone in between right So so by recalibrating the taste values You actually go Go to something that Duchamp said and so you can also see Fluctuous is not about making rubbish. Yeah, but it has the aesthetics and the taste of Of Duchamp in there. Can we go on please? Yeah, then We have after the second world war in the second world war really a Romanian Poet called is who was founding the letrist movement and that was important because he said Aha, you have feelings And now you want to express them maybe to yourself you write poetry Maybe to somebody else What will he use German language? That's a foreign thing To feelings because your feelings might be differently structured. They have a different tone They have different truth and reality Than any German who ever created a word Right, so you come to the very special Section of experimental languages Yeah, where artists have created experimental worlds languages can be color codes and whatever But normally of course so the dictionary is not enough to express feelings that's a very Deep understanding not only for artists, but maybe the artist is the super normal human being of his time Right or the hyper normal or the normal normal or the normal normal normal normal So I break rules of German grammar and syntax in order to be to let to let our ears click again Because in constructivism umber to Maturana may I ask you who knows this name? Okay, umber to Maturana is Chilean biologist who became the inspirator for Niklas Luhmann's system theory of social systems and He says what is a language a language is functioning and there if we coordinate our Coordinations of behavior together language is coordination of coordination of behavior So he would say you want to go this way on the street And you want to take a taxi, but the taxi comes from the other side. I saw him do this and then all you do is and Immediately the taxi driver understands. Aha He wants me to go in the other direction, but with me So I have to change direction and then he I will transport him He pays me that would be the coordination of behavior that normally custom client have If now I do a And then I run away The taxi driver has four reasons to be pissed Right now I say I called the taxi and I say I want to go from a to b in ten minutes And they say yeah, then it's language, but the coordination also works It's just that it wasn't presence. It was presence in time, but by media Agenda 2020 Paris the climate goals that is all coordination of behavior, of course Yeah, how eager are we to see texts of coordination of behavior of countries and their politicians to actually Be come reality that we can see Like taxi driver drives. I give him money. They talk about climate change goals. It actually happens All right, so the first lie of language can be that you promise something which you don't hold to of course, yeah and and If I pay you with my tax money The last thing you should ever do because you got thrown out of the job is to lie to my parliamentarians baby Have you ever seen generals lie to my parliamentarians in the last years? openly Without the law without the text of the law Sending them to the other place where liars are kept to think about it Here you can see how the promises of democracy and so on have to be Taken double series series series series series because the coordination of behavior is important right My coordination of behavior might be collected in the NSA Because metadata is a language in the sense that it's coordination of coordination of behavior. You understand If somebody else knows more about me and he's not controlled by my parliamentarians I'm a deep doo-doo as Spielberg would say I Know I think this is Ganga guy says it good. Let's come back to this Now John Cage He puts a lot of musicality into the fluxus movement John Cage Found out he was gay in the end of the second world war This is something you don't often hear and he had his boyfriend Mercy Cunningham and his Catholic upbringing gave him a lot of weight a lot of guilt feelings and so he listened to a One of the maybe most important philosophers of the 20th century Daisetsu Suki who was invited to Columbia? They said Suzuki had the problem to have Nagasaki and Hiroshima Burdened Japanese to tell them why this is honorable to live from now on You know because they have a very very strong pride Culture in Japan But this does it Suzuki Kane and this inspired Cage to have an enhanced notion of what is music an enhanced notion of what the composer should do Enhanced notion means its media theory interesting new notation Don't use the five lines only or maybe not at all The thing is now that the later fluxus will come from people a lot of them that were composition students with John Cage in the late 50s So a lot of them thought about music something very immaterial and something incredibly physical You don't get any music without physics All right So let's go on we have 20 minutes 15 minutes Duchon you can see here. He was the very Duchon is a master of not caring Yeah, and you can see it here He just looks at his own play and not at the moment and they played some chess together That's the late Duchon, but it's a very important image. Let's go on please and Of course what we see here is Alfred Jari. That's already 19th century, but that's the mad dictator so people were so Frustrated by the closeness of the society around them that they made theater plays with an absurdly fat stupid Gluttonous dictator that just puts everything around him in turmoil That's uber war and that is the the name-giver of the uber web, you know uber web who knows about web Okay, so so just think of ubu. That's the thing and uber web. This is the most important Archive about all the art that I'm talking about now data is to let this situation is fluxus and Then not all artists are obliged to be part of a movement that they then say it doesn't exist Right so artists are cunning and they're tricksters sometimes some artists are really like this but But the uber web is important for research in the art academies Let's go on right and now Art and language is an is another thing I wanted to point you to these are English painters that started going into the theory more theory in mostly means What sort of society is now or has been that made the Representative art that made the oh I want to have the landscape painting from this guy and I pay a lot of money to have it at home The it says the content of this painting is invisible the character and dimension of the content are to be kept permanently secret known only to the artist sounds a bit like sort of NSA exhibition contribution by some artists Also Yoko Ono was was important for the early fluxus She she gave her apartment in the early 60s for the fluxus people to meet let's go on and Now I want to come slowly here. You see a computer and I tear eight eight eight thousand eight hundred Which is already? 1975 why am I talking about this because it is Not the personal computer It's not you and me and everybody here that can afford it Today in Aldi what you three hundred ninety nine four hundred ninety nine and you have a power machine Yeah, great. So everybody can have it. So now I have the first guest Partilun, can you just come? Because I have to skip a bit letters and situation is but the slides will be online Can you just tell me is it yes? So who knows part alone already? Wow, okay. I Know me best. Okay, so part alone and rena tangents are our early friends of some teachers that I know The so-called Minus Delta T and Van Gogh TV Rectek band of whatever but who made quite beautiful poetic project like this here They transported a stone not to the west but to the east they wanted to have a stone from the granite of stonehenge Transported to Bangkok Why because somebody was invited to a bank to a performance festival in Bangkok and they said we don't come as tourists The the travel bill will be the work that we do but please first You know people from Minus Delta T Of course, I was a little bit apart of it Yeah, and I have four hundred of the shares if somebody wants to buy some Send me email. How much? Oh So here you see shared space you see an Austrian prince and I think an Indian on the right. Do you know this? No, no, it's boomie pool. Okay So please part alone you've been part of this and now You have been for many many years fighting for digital freedom. Yeah, how does it go together in your life in the 18th? You you never say it's a word punk on the stage Yeah, and in the in the punk movement, you know, there are some old fat guys who tell something about fluxes perhaps it's Something in the behind of punk, but you don't really care about them and you invited the whole fluxes thing again and We we used the possibilities of art to be absolutely free Inventing everything everything again and making funny things and We never stand on a stage and be very nice. We Things like that Just for fun you can try it out. Sorry for bothering you and maybe you look at your own future And one Time there comes a moment when you think, you know, what will we do with it? What what's about the rest of the society of the people you say there are not intelligent? The families the people who have not the time to be just an art and we want to find out how we can use art the normal life and We find out that in art the most important thing is to communication. You see the word communication and communication Congress Yes, it's for me and really wow and And it's very important to bring people together and we find out in the hacker scene People coming together. They really not like each other in the beginning perhaps times before they will change sides of the street when they meet but You have one thing you have to know you have to find out and so we come together in the early years when the cars communication Congress was in Hamburg Still in the beginning in the Irish at the Burger House and you find out you can talk to people you perhaps do not like and Learn to like them and it's very important to find the frame of art Around the people to bring them together in peace and so we used Eric Satis music his idea of making pattern music and His word ramen bow Perhaps translation interior design interior design of framework your daily feeling and we make we made Events with Piano 14 hours one minute piece all the time the same and Making a room where you can sleep you can read you just don't have just to sit and Listen to it, but you can get caught in contact with other people and have a peaceful atmosphere and Also, this Congress has made an idea of atmosphere mostly built In the beginning by while Holland's ideas the founder of the Congress and Stefan Van Neri two guys one hippie one tough guy who wants a little bit Fascistic really now or not not really but Lots of power You make this now. Okay. Yeah, I do it and and wow very very nice saying we don't have security We have angels Yeah, this brings it absolutely as an attitude to and if when you talk to the people from the caterer They all say it's wonderful to work on this Congress very nice people absolutely different from all other Congresses They will be here and this is a wonderful Thing to see how art becomes to a better way to live together. I think it's enough for the moment I have some prospects about my work Bringing here when you go out take it with you and you will see what will art can become Thanks a lot and now We hope to start here a project to get the empty 80s, which I don't know but part alone is already a little less empty for me because in 78 Not only Matziunas when you heard of died But also somebody said Fluxus is dead and this man was from the Silverstein collection Which had a lot of Fluxus pieces now in art if you have the best collection of an art movement and it's dead Then it really goes up in the very room. So some people some people may declare something dead to profit from it Now that's not nice especially not with Fluxus, which doesn't come from art as they say Yeah so You have the 80s that we I'm asking here for instance. I heard that while Holland was asked by the Fluxus Participant Joseph boys to bring one of the first personal computers To his Düsseldorf Academy very important in the arts Namjoon Pike and boys were in the Düsseldorf Academy So I want to get people who are really eyewitnesses or yeah have firsthand knowledge like a journalist You have to validate your sources or so and but then comes the 90s and in the 90s Maybe this is where you start to come in the younger ones of you the BBS bulletin board systems and the HTML Was invented and then something happened in New York Yeah, so basically in 91 Wolfgang Steele Found it the thing BBS and he was an artist did a video work before and Played a round with computers and got a modem and first step at that time you went online on a BBS That means like you're dialing up on a board modem and you had like I don't know if they have the image up with Terminal interface and what happened then friends from Europe came over to New York and Saw the BBS in New York running and then notes were set it up in Cologne in Vienna, I think all look at like 15 notes Amsterdam, London, Rome and the transferred data on artists and politically discourse overnight because the traffic rate was cheaper And so they established a place mixed with an online and virtual community having a basement office in New York and having an art discussion and Pushing art for was being like always more on the fringe out of the institutions and the idea behind was like you have like a Independent so you call it bullshit bullshit You're autonomous you try to help self-organized systems and you Play around with this and at the end of the day you always laugh about yourself. That was like the best thing about that We that was the first office there. I only got the like 98 as a system administrator 95 they ran the first website, which is still own online, which is called all that thing that net and 98 95 that was in 98 a max Cosa created a the communicator, which was like Lampstake based bulletin board system. So you had all the functionality for BBS traditional one in bread browser at that time It was quite mind-blowing. We had up to 8,000 people in that system where you had web streaming on videos with G2 on 33 kilobits so you can imagine how big the quality was like that and Threads projects that was like in the office space Audio streaming so we had like a live recording always from our phone calls and support with Verizon and Some other stuff video broadcasting from the office additions was like for selling helping artists selling the stuff and Sides so we went and 97 it used to be an ISP and Being in this like art Background community. We had like hilarious customers like yes, man. I don't know who knows them Because yes, man who knows the yes, man the yes, man Look them up there are if you wanted to say who is their flux of tradition in it Of course, you can ask them but of your of course in the fluxes. It's also about art So what is the work and the word they work would in fluxes be pranks Yeah, that they are tricksters that trick Corporations into believing absolutely absurd stuff as something normal in their world so that a fluxes The the yes, man save the world. That's their prank. Maybe fluxes cannot save the world. So go to the yes, man So like project that there's Since it's now a topic again where the anti-depotational lines Depotation class Analympics the cat.org Website so we got shut down like three times by upstream provider every time in the new york times. It's like a Hilarious time. We had electronic disturbances here Which was like at that time announced distributed denial of service attacks, which nowadays you can't do anymore because nobody has a sense of humor anymore We had also toy war which was hilarious and By 2002 we got them like cut off by upstream provider because they had too much troubles with us and The site is still up and running. We are nice P Doing this decentralized work. We are small community the question We're always asking ourselves how we push that stuff was happened at that time like in the late 90s or early 90s Which was basically like real online freedom where at least you thought it is How you transferred this to? 2015 so what our next step will be probably we have like the next community owned back Small boutique ISP where we have an entry to like some stuff. You shouldn't have entry to and having a hardcore technical side where I shout out to Jan Gerber who is running the back end and Being like one of these like little nice niches on the web. Are you an artist? I wouldn't call myself an artist. No, I'm just playing around We are ending now early Yes, we are ending now or do we have two minutes more or we should shop stop charge. No, yes, so We should we should stop now Some of the videos that we wanted to show you we will put online We are here to talk more if you're interested and I'm not sure whether this talk is normal or not normal for the cars computer club But we hope that yeah, this is constant Dullard. We worked. We wanted to show you some some Fluctuous concepts that we understood and people that we thought have Similar analog conceptualization and this is constant Dullard. This is presence in time. Yeah He is in pic implicativeness. He is really memorizing this 90s DVD Aesthetics, which we all forgot. So is there sort of a nerd? Melancholy in it also Then it's simplicity because he does what he does He just you know he can do the work like in in one minute. He's ready It's like very musical. I can sing I can sing everywhere and it's globalism maybe a lot of people understand DVD and Now as as it's over. I want to thank you very much for your attention