 Hi, let's start Wait in two seconds Okay, thank you very much for coming and welcome to winning and delivering big projects from a small agency perspective This My first talk in a jubalcon. Sorry about that about my English and these kind of things First of all about me. I'm Ramon Villar. I'm a very active member of local community I'm also the CEO and founder of imbra. It's a Barcelona Drupal shop and very active on the Spanish community and now international You can contact me on Twitter or on Drupal.org. It's the same username and on imbra.com First of all We will go away with all the guide of this session first we will Try to introduce all the context what it's a small agency and which type of projects It's typical for us Which type of agency do you work? about five to ten people 10 to 15 15 to 50 More than 50 and more than 100 Okay, there is big agencies too then What about the team and these kind of things the sales process that it's very different the methodology about the internal like development methodology and the sales or client methodology working closely with clients the culture about that and What is the impact and how can impact in our finance on in our team? the context What is a small agency for me for me and very small agencies three to ten people? maybe to 20 or 30 people These are multifunctional team people in this kind of team it's business people Design development testing sales of that maybe usually it's done by the same person maybe on this kind of agencies the sales person and the project manager is the same and With an horizontal architect there is no big director and Vice director and CTO and CEO and project manager is usually horizontal, okay What are the typical project for this type of companies? It's one to four months, maybe six months, but not more Every project is from a different client. We have a lot of rotation of clients it's very hard at the beginning for us and When working with big big clients, usually we have a layer in the middle like Advertising or publishing agencies and this is not very good for small agencies because we can't contact directly with client And then we can't measure what is their needs and what is their problems? And what is our desire our desire is to remove these layers contact directly with the client or with the product manager or Anyway, the person who want this project We want projects that is during more than six months because we need less rotation and focus on Development or focus on business and on different things but not changing every month on different projects Try to repeat several projects in the same client because when I know a client it's Maybe better or not depends on the client. It's better to try to win another project and how can we do it and at the end How we can do all of these things to transform my agency to be the perfect one for this kind of clients how we can do it Please if you want you have any questions or there is something that you don't understand, please than you have first of all Which type of teams we can have? It's impossible to have all the expertise and this kind of agencies because of the size we can't have person Focus on sales and focus on performance or focus on back-end development only we have a Multifunctional team usually but we can focus on two type of agencies We can be generalized or we can focus all of our Development or our services in one or two or three services If we are generous we have developers like on a scrum that Don't have any specific area. They don't have only one Knowledge on on all the layers They can do front-end back-end or or anything usually But usually when you have a person that it's doing all the front-end but if they if you need something on back-end they can do it not at the best or you have a An agency focus on services because You have a lot of knowledge for example on on performance or on servers Then you can focus on that have set of services that you are very Very very good on that and try to to find the clients for these services in My experience for example, it's not Maybe on on the Spanish market that is not very good on that is better the first type of agency But I know a lot of Drupal agencies that are focused on service and are very good And what about the big question? How can you playing your resources? Sorry and working peaks you have a project that it's That have problems and you have a very very Sized team how can you manage that kind of things? Then try to add up your work and your team to the work. It's like Two-directional problem or two-directional thing Your team needs to adapt to the work that you have and the work that you have Tries to up to your team Beware of the mistake was my mistake to hire new people When you have a working peak, it's not very good because the working peak on small agencies It's very very different. You can have two projects on one month. There is 10 projects and then two projects another month. It's not a problem For me the best one is to create a network of contracts people that you teach them About your methodology Development and client these kind of things and try to work with them when you have working peak and What about the sales process because this is another big problem how to introduce In that customer type There is the classic thing introduce you by mail or Make a little visit or something like that. It's very dangerous for us like and as more agency because You want to go to a big client. They usually don't know who you are and Then they don't trust in you but you can use your Your clients and try to introduce to another client of the same type by them For example, if you work for an NGO and you have one to work with for another NGO Try to use this one to introduce to the other one. It's something that seems very very clear but for small agencies, I think it's one of the keys of our performance Another it's be an expert and then try to be a need for them try to be an expert on something and then try to Go to a to a client and and say, okay, I know that you need this thing I'm an expert on that thing. We can work together. It's something that For me works and for us, for example, one of the kids to not introduce you by the marketing Department story instead of the IT for example, we are very good on on project Development and and performance and quality then we try to introduce in another in in a new customer for the IT Department and not for the marketing because we are not focused on design and marketing and then we can Hi for with another Agency, sorry Then there is the methodology How can you? Adapt yourself to the client mythology or then adapt the mythology of the client to yours Big in front of a small if you have a very very big client with a very very close mythology that it's something typical here Then can be a very a very prompt for you like for example the typical big client that needs documents for every Change that you need to do or everything that you need to change on their systems and something like that It's very very hard for a small agency because most of the day you are You are trying to create new documents for them and this is not Very good for you. It can be a little pitfall because You lose your time on this thing and not on on the best that you are that are development or performance on stuff you did for example for us we have we divide our mythology in Two different things the internal one that is how we work on our office like internal development and how Can we work or how we work with the client? For example internally we will use agile as mandatory in a small teams we divide our teams in two three four people and then Create user stories like that. Most of you work with agile. Yeah, there is something that you don't know Yeah, okay Then organize ourself in two or three weeks sprints and As usually and retrospective this is very very important for for us for example to make a little retrospective at the end of every spring to try to to focus on the needs that development team have and then try to To pass to the client and and have the Let's say The needs the new needs right then how How we work with with the client we have only one person As contact on on the on the client or maybe a small set of persons because This is very good for us. I'm very good for them as maybe they don't think the same But is the is the best one because if not you have meetings with people that are trying to to give his His opinion about something that maybe it's not the best and we try to usually have One person of the client side and one person of the IT department of this client side And usually it's it's the best for us Something that is not Very agile, but it's very good for for the client try to extract all their requirements at the first step of the project Not at the at the end like on every spring. We try to extract all of them most and then Go more in depth on every spring and then we can manage with the client all of these kind of things Try to introduce the client and the very Precision of the of the project something that it's very useful for them and Make a demo meeting at the end of every sprint But who will change we as a Provider or them as a client is something that is a typical question For us for example Clean usually don't use agile as their methodology, but we try to introduce Themself on our methodology Adapting work to use agile don't try to use all agile techniques at the beginning of The first project try to introduce them on every project that you work for them and Try to to introduce themselves to the positive things that they can bring with Agile and what is that the problems that you need to to work on them? Work closely with with the client closely with manager as a small agency you need to remove all the classic layers and don't Don't try to to communicate with a person on the client that then needs to communicate to the director and these kind of things seem to be as As best as you can with the the person that have the decision or the final decision on the client side Replace your personal sales person for a technical person because Usually is best because you only have one person on this kind of meetings For example for us because we are a very very small agency and this something that it's Is the best? use plain and direct language to communicate with the client don't try to to To fool or something because if you fail on the end one project on a Big client as an a small you will lose this kind of client and usually This type of of client and don't hide problems and benefits You have to to be very very clear with them and And work closely with it department. It's something that it's very very very important integrate with them and try to be a kind of concealer You should not be a simple provider because they have a lot of provider and they can work with a very very big Agencies with no problem try to be part of the team. It's very very very important And what about culture and how can they impact to your team? How can you explain to your to your client that you don't work? One week because you are on Drupal con or Drupal come or Drupal day. It's something Very very difficult How you explain that you waste time on? models or fixing patches For us for example, we are very plain and we introduce these things at the beginning of the new Conversations with new clients something That we have to be very clear at the beginning of our future relation What about project and community project as Drupal? It's a benefit we try to introduce that it's a benefit for them to improve Drupal as a platform because if they pay As for example to to fix problems in models or patches They will be they will have a platform very shaker and with you do this and another client do the same then It's better for them because we introduce themself in the community too because if they are very active on the community and they want to hire As a client a new developer for the IT department then a Drupal developer Will be very very comfortable to work for a client that works for the community and What about the impact in your business there is two kind of of impact The finance is the first one. Usually big clients are very slow on payments What about introduce agile on on payments for example we introduce A sprint budgets or sprinting voices with we invoice at the end of every spring or a number of sprints because We are doing for example one one year or one year and a half projects and For us and a small agency we don't invoice Anything at the end until the end of the project for us. It's something that will kill us And what about the team? Because the developers is the core of this kind of fashions is then if a developer is Bored to work with you. It's something that you That will convert in a problem then be careful with rotation of Clients it's better to rotate for example if a developer are now finishing a project during a year then it's better for you as a Director or project manager to put this developer to a very small project or maybe to Innovation or something like that to try to to motivate them try to combine big and small projects and Motivation is the key in both the the developers on every phase maybe for for example for me developers are involved on on decisions in our category or in In Analysis or something like this It's something very very important and As a conclusion and conclusion suffering this is not a to-do-to-follow. It's only our side try to introduce Little steps in your in your teams Take care of your teams is that it's something that is the key of your agency as a small and Humanize their relationship with the client try to be kind of a friends Something that you can't and I to the government for me is the the better thing to introduce you more than marketing and Sorry, baby. I was very fast. Thank you very much. This is my presentation Questions Yes Yeah, maybe Yeah So yeah two questions and one you were saying introduce them to agile slowly. Yeah How do you do that because The big challenge we have in agile is getting people to get their heads around The shift from you have a specification that is what you'll get for your money to It isn't going to be like that. So so how do you mean by introduce agile slow? Okay, and the second question was you said be an expert in something they need Find out what they need be an expert in it. I wonder if you could give some examples Okay, the first one We introduced slowly and on agile but in the client side for example For the biggest project that we are doing on the first one. We only introduced themselves in User stories in the client then I for myself. I was the blue corner and then Me and the client write all the user stories and then go to the development team and All these things on the second project for example, I introduced the client to user stories testing on of the of every sprint and Pre-requisition and now that is the biggest one all of these things and then introduce themself To Yeah to sprints to maybe If you want to to do two or three weeks of sprints for example pre-requisition testing and Writing tests they write the test on be heard or something like that for example, and the second question was sorry Okay, sorry. Yeah, for example for for our thing is that we are very focused on code quality and How can you create Different kind of development with features and Continuous integration git be hat and these kind of things we are very expert here and it's been on that then We focus on clients that we think that they need this kind of development For example on this project. Yeah on this project and on this on this client We introduced this methodology on their IT department and is something that helps us to do this project and another project that we will be in the future Sorry. Yeah You need to use the sorry the microphone for the recording How would you recommend to price and estimate the project? Well, this is the big question This is the big okay Wow For me and my experience For example, I try to introduce the agile method of Create budgets that is something that Introduce the client on budgets on how can you react this? But for me for example, I try to when I when I have a very very big project. It's something that it's very Seems very usually but for me it's not I try to to split them on different phases and try to focus on very little phases and then Introduce budget only on this phase and then I think this is a project that usually it's two years project with something like 200,000 euros then try to split them on five or ten product of 20,000 euros this Most easy to manage for you as a small agency because you have a set of ten people on your development team You can manage a two years Project and then it's better for you as a salesperson to manage at 20,000 project than a 2,500 It's something of experience for me. For example, if I say I I try to to recognize more or less the functionalities then if I make this kind of things on the past like searcher giant of Panels or something like this is okay. It's on the past. I spent on that two months then For me, it's the month something like this for me questions Yeah I am Daniel. I get two questions One is about invoicing. Yep at Gile invoicing sounds really interesting So if you could elaborate on that both from the perspective from the client and you and then you talked a little bit about Introducing the technical guy instead of the sales guy. Yep. I am the sales guy and not the technical guy So would be nice to hear a little bit something about that. Thanks. Okay then the Gile Anthology or invoices for me, for example, if I I split a project on maybe I Don't know 10 sprints then I am both in boys. Sorry on at the end of every pair of sprints, for example, two four six eight and ten but after They say that they pass all the test plan that they have then when for them It's the second or the fourth sprint is closed Then I'm boys these two weeks or four weeks or five weeks or these kind of things It's better for me and it's better for them because they have control of everything that they are spending and everything that it's close it's paid and Then the second was about okay the sales person, sorry For me it's best to have Technical and not only a sales person in a small agency because in my experience I introduced myself on the IT department and then They speak a different language than marketing one and this they speak in technical Facts and I'm a technical person then it's the communication. It's it's better for me for my point of view and If it's good your communication with the IT department they as an internal department They will go to the marketing thing and they introduce ourselves That we are a very good company or not a very good company and it's better But if in your case you have a very good person you for example in the in that case on sales And you have a very good communication with the marketing Department is it not a problem. This is only my point of view and my case Yeah, I'm the Dan I got two questions for you so one of them was very interesting you were introducing and On this topic from your previous questions around how you introduce your clients to the use of agile So I understand you could kind of convince them like now we have this cool format with this user story I want to do two-week cycles and get you more involved But how about getting the buying in terms of deadlines and You know, they're they're usually fine splitting features down on smaller cycles, but certain clients have very High requirements in terms of I need it by them because I have marketing campaigns or my operations are all around I don't know game matches for example So how do you get them because it's very difficult to be able for all projects to actually be able to you know Create that you're actually gonna hit that date So how do you go around convincing them? It's out. I'll have you by that day. Your question is about dates project. Yeah, most You have the most valuable items what you're asking for on that date You cannot guarantee up from 18 months ahead that you will have I don't know 200 and all requirements So that will be first question Sorry second question Is around I don't know how you handle your projects because you mentioned you rotate people once they finish the project to a different one And I don't know if within your business model You also run maintenance on the projects that you deliver and whether if you have flipped people to different projects Then how do you handle the maintenance request on this point? Okay? The first one it's about the date or date project or date fit project. This something But it's very difficult for for us as a small and for big I think In in our case that we have also this kind of projects we try to to manage on the requirement part that We try to To be very clear that the requirements are very very clear and try to introduce the Development team on this kind of of projects because The problem is will be not on the client side will be usually at the development side Not because the development are not good only for for times things And I try to introduce this kind of contractors that I mentioned If there is a problem with dates usually I use Contractors because they don't Work only on office hours. They work usually more or they have a little Web on on on his part and then try to mix our internal Team with this kind of contractors and and for in my case It works And the second was about sorry The maintenance. Yeah, the same thing that works on the project is the same thing that maintains this kind of project We try to introduce a small Projects or different projects for the team only for the motivation because if you are working for a year that you start Very very happy, but at the end of every project you are yeah this You are going down then try to introduce to to the developers something that can be very very Good for them, but the maintenance we need to introduce all our Not not to introduce other developers, but in our life cycle when we work with code review that there was a Presentation and with Pedro and Rodrigo that are all developers and For that reason If if for example, there are two people that are working on on project There is a third one that it's review this project then if there is any problem that this These guys can't work on that project Then there is something one two or three that is usually review in project And then they know or they have the knowledge of the project. Maybe not all of them, but usually 90% then we can introduce this team to the project is usually it's something that for for Small agents is very good try to introduce this kind of code review because all the knowledge base will be Split on all the all the teams and not only in one mind. It's something that for me. It's it's very very useful Sorry Are you using the remote contractors and how you manage them? How come how we use teams like another parts of the group or just in here in Spain? How about the mythology well out? No, they I don't know I'm not employed Freelancer from yeah from other parts In the world and not only from Spain and how if yes, no, we usually use People from from Spain from from Barcelona because we have our network very very close Usually we have one on in London, but it's we have Trust in them because we work with them since a lot of years ago, but Your question is about trust or out? Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we work on a scram we make daily every year I every day at On a Skype. Yeah on a hangout for in our case and We use the same mythology their code is reviewed by all the team and the team Code is reviewed by by this contractor. There is the same mythology. It's something that you can vary the size of your team depending on the time and Not to be a problem for for your finance because if you have a very large Team then you have a finance problem. I mean you have a very small team then you can't You can have More and more and more projects. It's something that you you can do it and we try to manage as Team developer as an internal developer the same mythology and the same the same Yeah, I'm working for a quite big company and if there's a call a proposal and we want to get this Client we easily spend like 40,000 euros for getting this and for a small agency I think it's won't be possible. You will be broke easily after a while So my question is how do you get new clients? What is the way to not spend that much money in proposals, for example, okay? As a small agency that the problem can be that you can you can go to a client that will Be your your end. It will crash you and To go to new clients we spend for example Time from the sales department sales department are me and another guy and we try to introduce ourselves like meetings and something like this and try to Start with a very small project the first project for a client It's not usually a big one only because they didn't know you and they They don't want to to pay a lot of money for a small agency that they don't know and you as as a as an agency that want to To To go ahead on time. You don't want to to to work for the first time with a very big Project with a client because you don't know that and then try try to do these kind of things It's not maybe it's it's a response for you question. Yeah Okay, it's all Then thank you very much for your time I Yeah No I just just interesting We just have a lot of stuff on the kit. I'm not sure if it's in there, but it's just in there. Let's go. OK. Thank you. Thank you. You said no. Thank you. Question? I don't know. No. No. OK. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. I'm glad you didn't like it. Yes, it was all my fault for the plan. I'm glad you noticed. Well, yes, I did get a lot of support from the contacts. I wanted to ask you about the project we are working on. Are you making products that you prefer or are you also working with products that you have that you are just... I'm not sure if it works. Do you want to work in a new world in what you already have? Yes, we do, but in our case we have a lot of experience and things that don't happen. I don't know. What we see... I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Let's see the code. We have a lot of books. Yes, we have a lot of things. We have a lot of things. The group has the label. We have a problem with the group. I'm not sure. We have a lot of stuff. I'm not sure. I think it's more of a problem. I'm just wondering if you do what you have to do to save the peace or if you can carry out this project. It's a great thing and I'm not sure. I am afraid to take advantage of the problems. No, nothing like that. I know I have a lot of work to do, but I don't know if I have a website, but do you have a platform for that? Of course, we have a number of products that give interest to the website. We have a lot of work to do this month, because our client has a lot of content, to promote the content of the channel. We have a website that has a lot of content, but not because it is a CMS that allows us to create content. Some of the content is even more customized, so we have a lot of features, especially price features, value features, things like that. Can you tell us a little bit about the website? Yes. We have a lot of independent websites, so we have a lot of interaction, but it is true that we have a lot of channel interaction, especially when we are on the market, we are taking out, let's say, a lot of multibrand websites, because we have different websites, so in the end we had a market that needed support for the language and so on, so we had a lot of investment at a very high level. And it appears that we have a lot of content, so it is true that in its full capacity of people, in terms of its development, because it costs nothing to live in, but nothing to live in. I have seen that we have found one recently. We are in the process of exploring all of the options and how we work with contracts, let's say, in the whole, Yes, yes. Do you still have a plan to put in place? Yes, it's the last time I've done something like this. But the first thing is that we're doing a great job of taking part in the project. I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I'm not sure. I mean, it's not like that. That's not our plan. No, I'm not sure. And that's not in the front either. We're starting with that now, and it brings a lot of technical investment, knowledge, to change the guy a bit, to the people who have also taken part. We'll start with that. We'll come back to that. We'll start with that later. We'll start with that later. We'll start with the project, and then we'll do some time-stimulating. And then… You're going to start with the best part? No, that's not the plan. No, that's not the plan. The 100% tomorrow is not possible. But I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. Oh, of course. It's not my plan. We are not doing it because we are friends, we are friends. If we don't do it, we are the smallest project, although it is three weeks, we are not doing it because we are friends. No, no, no, no, because once the benefits, I have a team of people that is going to be able to work with us, and they are going to give us superpowers to, let's say, the issue of meeting with the people who are working with us, and they are working with us to make plans to pass everything. And then they are starting to work with the new team and to see them a little bit of, let's say, to work more together with us, because traditionally we come from a background in which they have been separated, let's say, and I want to remove a little bit. If you want. Let's say what the barrier is with this. If you want, if you want to do something like that, do you have any doubts? Yes, I think so. Yes, well, I would like to give you some advice. I don't know how to do it. Okay, well, nothing. Well, thank you very much. Oh, this is an autograph. Sorry. I have one last question. Yeah. Great presentation. But, sorry. I have the same side of the company. Several people have mentioned that selling hijabs first time. Do you have some, I don't know if it's checklist or if you make the wires first time. So, you have some strict process on how you're going to communicate with the websites, right? And there's a lot of... Don't try to be... Okay. Do you think it takes money? It takes money? To prove yourself? No, it can be money. But it takes time. It's not like this. Do you quite agree with me enough? And then, at the end of the project, I'll make a little check-in. What's the behind the scenes of the project? I don't know. Why is that? Because we are not working around the time. We're only working on the project. Then we'll include the second part of the second project. Okay? And now we are only fixing the money because we only have one future. But not taking time. I don't think it takes time. I try to... I don't try to... Then I only do the first part of the screen and the first part of the screen to pay. Then I'm going to... I'm going to...