 shooting generally and focusing on long and long distance. It's type of person, I think, like shooting on the distance. Like you say, for many people, say it's for nothing, it's not for purpose, it's why we do it. And it is a passion. It's hard to say why we do it. But today I get to chat with a new friend who lives a little bit further away from my neck of the woods than a lot of the people I chat with. And this guy I came across on the internet, I found out that he achieved something pretty cool. Andre, is that the correct pronunciation of your name? Yes, it's my name. It's correct. Perfect. And where do you live? I'm live in Czech Republic, in the city of Liberals. Czech Republic, I find in the middle of Europe. And it's part of its member of the European Union. OK, OK. And you were born there and raised there? I'm born in a small village. It was about 120 people, or citizens. It's a very small village. But I think this opportunity, I have a very wide, very long shorting possibility that it's not half in the city of Liberals. Where I have about 20 years for my college day in 2005. But it's still my parent house is there. So I have this opportunity about two times in months shorting on a bigger range. Wonderful, wonderful. That is the nice thing about living in a rural area, which I do also, is you don't have to go through the hassle of finding some big city range. And it's maybe only 30 meters that you shoot. It's nice having wide open spaces. So are your parents still alive? One, my mom is still alive. Fortunately, my father-in-law. OK, well, I'm sorry about that. I'm glad that you still have your mother. And I'm glad you still have a great place to go and see her and shoot. What about, are you married? You have children? Yes, I'm married about 15 years, if I think. And I have five years, all daughter. So it's probably see on my videos on YouTube this last picture on that video. OK, great. And so what do you do for a living? What's your occupation? Is it in the shooting industry? From the beginning, I went to the working market, if I say. I started to make regulators for argons from even when I was in college in 2008. And from then, I only work in the argon industry. Right now, I am a mind developer and CEO of my own company, Altheros. In this company, we make argons. Primarily, me focusing on precision argons for long-range shootings. And also, we make very unique CNC-made slugs, which is made on CNC-turning. It's similar like cutting edge, but it's purely its unique technology, because no other manufacturer in the world is not making these slugs. And this is very important for all pictures. We can try make them. And I think we can get to these slugs later in this conversation. Yes, yes. Well, how fortunate are you and me? We both get to work in the shooting industry. I feel so fortunate to be able to do this. So many people would love to be able to do what we do. And it reminds me that from the outside looking in, it probably looks like our jobs. Oh, they're just easy. You go and shoot guns all day. What fun. There's a lot of work that goes behind it for you, just as it is for me, I'm sure. Absolutely. I say it's about 90%, it's hard work. And maybe 10%, it's fun. It's not good. But it's not like other things, other people things. It's not that easy. It's not paradise. Yeah, yes, absolutely. So you mentioned in college, is that when you started shooting airguns? And actually, I like weapons, generally, from the beginning. Even small kids, I made myself bow, crossbow, swords, and other weapons. I really like weapons, as I know. But first airgun, I get from my dad in seven or eight. And from that date, I never took shooting airgun, even one man, about 30 years. Wonderful. I shot 30 years. Wonderful, that's best fun. It's my first gun, it was Slavia, 631, it's the spring gun. But in 2005, I get first TCPR guns, and that is really changed from spring guns. And then start my business. So a spring gun, and I am not very mechanically minded, unlike you, but a spring gun, that wouldn't be considered an airgun. An air gun, if I'm correct, an air gun would be something that the projectile is expelled from compressed air. Is that correct? It's correct, but I maybe say wrong. Spring gun make pressure by spring and piston. So it's still our guns. But the PCP is pre-chargeable. So we're using pressure pressure about 200 or 300 bars that is in reservoir or R2. And we don't need pushing spring. So it creates the pressure. So it's my difference. I never work with spring gun because it's all technology. We have some advantage, but again, modern PCPR guns is not power or precision. It's all technologies. OK. And so what made you get interested from shooting at, I would say, normal distances for an air gun of 20 meters or something like that? What made you choose to go long range? Yes, for me, I never like shooting on standard distance. For air guns, when I start shooting, even at speed, it's standard distance of 10 meters. It's Olympic discipline or similar like that. That is never a light for me. With every weapon, I like that I get more distance that is normal. So even this spring gun, where regularly people should think about 10 or 20 meters or similar, I get 40 meters or 18 meters. Even at 10 years old, I have. So every time I go with every weapon I have to more distance that is regular. Good for you. Yeah, it's like a little bug that gets into our system and makes us want to think, you know, if the normal is this far, can we take it even further? It's a fun challenge. Yes, absolutely. What is it like in the Czech Republic, firearms ownership and air gun ownership? Is it easy or do you have to have a government license? Can anyone go get one easily? Or do you have to be wealthy and famous to have one? Or what are the legal things in the Czech Republic about guns? Yes, in the Czech Republic, if I say first, regular firearms is all very good. Compare other members of European Union or other states where democratic rules like in the US, like York or something, we have very good law about firearms. We have not that super good law like in Texas, for example. But if we get permission, gun license, if I say it's a part that we need, that we have a handgun safely, it's not too much, it's one exemption. And you get license and 10, you can have all, practically all standard handguns, like pistols. If I say assault rifle, both action rifle and others. We have some restriction. For example, we cannot have fully automatic guns if I have no special permit. But for against other country, we can keep carry a pistol outside in public. And if I know, it is very prohibited for many states in the US. So I can say we have one or maybe two states in European Union, maybe one, we can carry pistols in public and it's OK for us. Wonderful. Very good. From Arganz, we have about one and a half years. It's changed the law and in good one. Very unlikely, but in good one. And we have, it's lost limited for power restriction. And now we can unlimited power for Arganz in 25 calibre. And that's bring a lot of people for shooting high power guns, high power Arganz. And that is possible shooting also in longer distance because 16 joules, it was about 12 foot-pounds of energy. It was for 100 meter if you have plenty. But if you have 100, 120 foot-pounds of energy, you can shoot like 1,000 yards or more if you have wood equipment. OK, to make sure I understand, you can have air guns, but they cannot be larger than a 25 calibre if they have a certain amount of power behind them? Not directly. In up to 25 calibre, you have by Arganz only 18 years. You must, you get 20 years old. And if you have a bigger calibre, you must get in police and just make registration this Arganz. OK. But this is only restriction. You have not fire analysis for this Arganz. So it's a little restriction, but in 25, you don't have even that. You can just get by the Arganz and get shot. OK. That is good for Arganz, but it's, as I say, a half, one year and a half back when we have this limitation. And it's very good that it's changed. OK. And so you, the reason we're chatting today is because I heard about your one-mile record, but you set a world record with an air gun before the one-mile shot some years ago. Is that correct? Yes, it is correct. I set my first Arganz record about three and a half or four years back. It was hitting the target on 1,400 yards. Target size was really about two and a half MOA. So if I compare it for MOA records, even that day, it's four, four far way for many Arganz. But for me now, it's not that big deal. OK. Yeah. And for those of you watching who are not familiar with minutes of angle, essentially, and this is rounding it down, this is not scientifically precise, but think about an inch per 100 yards. So if he was shooting at 1,400 yards, it would be about a 14-inch target would be one minute of angle. So if he was shooting a two-minute of angle target, it would be about a 28-inch by 28-inch target. So when you hear us say MOA, that's what we mean. And if we're talking 1,000 yards, then it would be 100, which is 1,000. So 10 inches would be about one minute of angle, 20 inches would be two minutes of angle, et cetera. So as you hear us talking about minutes of angle, that's what we're referring to. And when was it that you set that record at 1,400 yards? How many years ago? It's about three and a half years. OK. And then since then, when did you first decide, you know, I want to do one mile. When did you make that decision and start building and putting together all the special equipment and the plans for it? It's about 10 days after the first record. I love it. 10 days of you had the bug and we're ready to continue. So you built up, is it a purpose-built rifle that you built up for this, or is it only for that extreme distance? I would imagine you'd have to have some sort of siting system to get the scope tilted down enough to reach that far. I actually use, or they built, my Argon Althos M24, which I use for the first record. I must modify them, mainly by increasing the power and that increase the mass overall city. It's about only 20%. It's not that much, but it's enough that I get muscle velocity about 850 FPS with 66 grain bloods. That is neat, but the most important elements of our M24 Argon is not power itself, because other companies in the world are able to make even more powerful or more higher muscle velocity organs. But most advantage of our system is the consistency of muscle velocity. It is very, very, very essential to keep muscle velocity in very low dispersion, because you use it very low muscle velocity against firearms. And if I say we can try, keep SD, muscle velocity, standard deviation, under 1 FPS. We get the record about 0.44 FPS for 25 shots in a row. Wow, that is consistent. Yes, it is. We're thrilled with a 3 or a 4 per second deviation. This is a very good, very good, long hand-load ammo. We use firearms if I know why. In one digit, it's a very, very good hand-load ammo, if I know. So for our guns, it's also not standard. Therefore, it was not that bad, like for .22 ARR or similar ammo in these firearms. But it's still about 4 or 5 FPS in standard. So under this value, it's possible to get. So in good precision, very, very low difference in vertical spreads. But the second part of the puzzle are our unique C&T 200 lead bullets. Because no other manufacture, it's mine. I must improve, not improve, but develop this technology. And this is the second part, because C&T lead bullet, similar like for firearms, get compared to other technology, very small SDU ballistic coefficient, and also very low weight difference. It's system. So it's not only about our guns, but also about ammunition. And together, make a successful condition for shooting at this external trench or when shooting. So it's not only one part, it's two parts. So tell me if I'm correct. I'm not that knowledgeable about ballistics. With your system, it's a .22 caliber. If I had a .22 caliber firearm, it is powered by fire by an explosion or compressed. The explosion is the primer, and then the gun powder burns. There's no pressure, but difference possible how make this pressure. Right. So this would be an internal or interior ballistics issue. So Andre's gun and my gun have very different science physics behind what's happening inside the gun. But as soon as the bullet leaves the muzzle, that's a different kind of ballistics. Now that's called exterior or external ballistics. And that's what happens between the time the bullet leaves the muzzle and it hits the target. Once it hits the target, then that becomes a whole new study, which is terminal ballistics. And I don't hunt big game. And I think for the purposes of this conversation, we are interested in interior ballistics and exterior ballistics. But for me, I shoot steel targets. And as long as it goes, ding, I'm happy. I don't care what else happens, terminal ballistics. And as long as it pops your balloon, you don't care. So I do this lead up to say once that bullet leaves the muzzle, now we're talking exterior ballistics, external ballistics. At that point, everything is equal. It doesn't matter how the bullet got up to that speed. As long as it's going at a certain twist rate, as long as the bullet has a certain ballistic coefficient, from there to the target, it would be the same as a firearm. Is that correct? Yes, it's absolutely the same when bullets exit the muzzle. You have same physics. So that is why you think same knowledge that you guys give me about years and same ballistics. But only difference that I have not a problem when bullets go to the transonic regime, because I start under a suit of feet. So I don't need to not get this transonic region, if I say correctly. I understand. So this is good for me. But elevation that I must need for, for example, one mile is really much bigger than you need, because muzzle velocity is much lower, about three or four times. Right. When we're shooting, and typically when we shoot one mile, we shoot with a 6.5 creed more. And the bullet speed is maybe 2,700 feet per second. And so our holdover, and now we're at 7,000 feet elevation. So that makes a difference, our altitude. But our holdover is usually about 73 minutes of angle, is all of the adjustment we need for that. And so for you, having a muzzle velocity of 800 something. 860. 860. So you had to have a lot of minutes of angle adjustment in your scope? It's a lot. And that is a reason why a normal hyposcope is not enough, and can bring the periscope system. It's similar things like charlithera. Because charlithera is great, great equipment. But for argons, I think its periscope is too high. We have much less recoil. So I make this periscope about $40, 3D printers, and some glass from eBay. OK, wow. So by the way, is your degree in engineering or? Yes, I have a degree in engineering. My focusing is regulation and PCP control. So it's not machinery. But I use all information together. Because I start making regulators for argons. So it's like, say, I use it my degree from college. But it's not true. It's much more electronic device. And I pretty much focusing for mechanic spots. OK, it's interesting. And I don't know if you notice this also, but I noticed that the long-range shooting community, it's comprised mostly of engineers, airline pilots, attorneys, people who take a set of data and say, OK, well, if the bullet weighs this much and it's shaped in a certain way, we get our ballistic coefficient. And if it travels at a certain speed and it spins, you punch all the numbers in and there's your answer. I am one of the few people when I'm in the long-range community who is absolutely an idiot when it comes to physics and engineering and such. I don't understand it all. I just get a kick out of go, whoa, we just hit that at that distance. And to me, it's a surprise every time. I don't have nearly the engineering knowledge that the typical shooter does. That's wonderful that you have that educational background as well as having a passion for it certainly comes together. And still you keep your board records for 4.4 miles, if I say correct. Yeah, but I'm not the guy who did the math for it. My partner, Scott, he's the brains behind the whole thing. I was just the guy who got to kind of enjoy and lead the team. But yeah, those are the smart you and Scott and other people like you, Brian Litz. You're the smart ones who lead the industry. And I thank you for making these advancements. And this brings up an interesting point. There are a number of people that gave us feedback. And I suspect that it was similar for you when we said to the world, hey, we went out and did something that is pretty fun, pretty cool. We we hit a target that we were aiming at with a rifle from a long way away. We got a lot of feedback from haters. And they would say, well, that wasn't under military conditions, so it doesn't count. And you didn't do it in just one shot. So it doesn't count. And well, that's not realistic. You can't shoot a deer. That's not ethical to shoot a deer from that distance. And there were all of these arguments admittedly from pretty low IQ people, but they didn't realize that it's like any record that is set. If you're driving an automobile, the fastest that one's ever been driven. If you don't argue normal traffic, traffic industry, it's a circle and it's it's rice and still the records. Yes, yes. And you're not saying, well, that race car, you can't fit very many groceries into it. That's useless. Well, no, Andre and we we purpose built these or had built in Andre's case, he actually did it himself. These rifle systems and ammunition systems that would actually achieve this and neither Andre nor I were not claiming that either of us could go sit down with a rifle with one projectile and hit a target at 4.4 miles with a firearm or one mile with an air gun. No, it's going to take multiple shots and then one lands on there and that is just kind of how the game goes. And not everyone is smart enough to understand this or has maybe not as smartness, but hasn't spent time actually long range shooting to know this. How many times did you go out and try at a mile before you even saw any dust kicking up? Did you take trips out beforehand? I first. Pined the solution if able, even shot at the distance. Of course, mods from Brian Leitz say, yes, you have this parameter you can able get to this distance. But if it's true, it's nobody know because nobody can try. So first time I can see impact that is that is all and I get in a produce video when almost hits about soda for one mile because it's my end in point that I say where I can try to hit. And when I see the impact and the second impact, I know I able to hit the targets and then I must improve for looking where the impact go to the ground. Find the good condition about when dry, when I see if it's a wet, wet ground, I don't see anything that is most important things. And many people who should think on long term distance, it's no, if you don't see the impact, it's not need shooting, it's purely lack if you hit. So I have a couple of days before it's not the day because I have weekends, only weekends about two weekends every month, as I say before. So I using two or three weekends for this. I see that I able to see the impact I able to get to the distance. I improve for my rifle and I see that my wet's shorter and lighter. It's not work perfectly for the distance. Last weekend before the record against I make about 20, 20 shot 66 grain wet that was longer and heavier. And that was work much better, much better. So in my shop, I make more this glad. And I hit in Friday, practically when I start shooting, I see, yes, it's very good, not that the weather is good, but systems work very good. So I shot about 60 shots and hit the target. So it was good for me, but much important for me. It was not lucky shots. See in the video that it's not so lucky shot. It's very consistency or very shrink groups. So I have very lucky that I made this record and this this shooting because it's not lucky. It's only statistic when I hit or not. And in video it's see I am full straight where come later because I know it's possible that not came that day. So practically last shot, I shot, I can get break. So it's lucky. It's it's still lucky that I don't break one shot before. Yes, yes. You didn't give up and you kept going. Yes, exactly, exactly. And so regarding the luck part of it, if you took a really good. If you took your system, your air rifle, your prism, your optical periscope system, if you took that system and left the rifle sitting in that room and someone else walked in who is a standard air gun shooter and said, yeah, go for it. They're not going to hit the one mile target. And so that that is, I think, the difference of knowing the ballistics, knowing how much holdover there actually is, knowing how to deal with the wind, knowing all of those details through trial and error. This is why people say it was just a lucky shot. No, go get yourself an air gun and shoot it a balloon in a field and see what you see if you hit it, you're not going to hit it. And the fact that you do it in less than a hundred shots or less than 200 shots, that's a very good thing. At this distance, which no, which even probably one million. If that shooter don't know what is need, it's not possible to think of this distance. It's wrong way, get from start to this point. But after if I make these guns and all are prepared and use a standard shooter, then it's probably that they hit the targets. Sorry, but the work around this, it's that it's the knowledge about shooting at this distance. What do you think in 10 years? How far do you think the record will be for an air gun in 10 years from now? What will then the world record be then? What do you think? I generally, I don't know this first and my try. See if you care. It's it's limited. Our guns right now is get in technology way much, much faster that that far. And so that is generally five years back. We have able shooting 100, 200 was very limited and about 200 is just pure rock. Now it's we get the distance and 500 meters is my standard shooting range that I try training with shooting. So it's improved every years very fast. But I think we get just a little bit limitation of physics. And it's good say that my argon using for the record have max distance for shooting, where max I'm not sure I say how much far the argon get get fired has about two kilometers, two point one kilometers. And this is I'm not sure one point six two is one mile. So I have last third of my max distance for shooting. So if I not get better ballistic coefficient and not increase the muzzle velocity, but not muzzle velocity is not increased that much. It's only about increase the ballistic coefficient that bullets not throw too much and get get the longer distance. So with this technology, I think it's on the edge one mile. But if we increase the caliber and that make possible make better ballistic coefficient for bullets, I think it's two kilometers. Fortunately, I am in metric guy in Europe. This is I'm not sure it's about two point two thousand yards that is it's still possible. But if not get this argons or our technology to US, I don't think it's not moving because my records, my previous record have almost four years old and nobody can try to get to the higher records. So even myself, I'm limitation maybe, maybe plus 200 yards, 300 yards. And that is I must change the price. And it's not that we have fortunately have fortunate and maybe it's good for us. We have no deserts like Utah or or single country when distance is no problem. Right, right. Yeah, that's that finding a place to shoot is always a challenge. Yeah, that's that's a challenge. And for firearms, for small arms, rifles, so in other words, up to 50 caliber, kind of the accepted wisdom or the physics is that a bullet will never be able to purposefully hit a target at more than five point five miles. And so that's still one point one miles. And I don't know for for firearms with a heavier bullet with a three, four hundred grain bullet. I don't know if that is going to happen. Somebody is going to hit a five mile target with a rifle, somebody will at some point. And I don't know if that's going to happen in one year or 50 years. Who knows, but it sure is interesting. And part of what my partner Scott and I are happy to do and is help other people break our record. And that's kind of what you're doing by manufacturing guns, the air guns and projectiles. You're encouraging other people, hey, get into this sport. Enjoy it. It's fun. Beat me. Let's let's have a fun competition here and see who can do the next one. And so that is your you sell air rifles. And I euros are close enough to US dollars that will you just give me an idea? If I wanted to to try to beat you and I moved to the Czech Republic for two months into a farming town where I had the space, which of your rifles should I purchase and what scope? What whole system would you suggest selling me so that I could try to beat your record? Right now, previous record, I have this gun. It's not a standard air guns, primarily about the virus. It's half. Heavy barrels, about one inch. The diameter, one inch diameter, yes. And practically, nobody makes this this barrel. So it's it's not standard argument. It's standard barrel for firearms. That's it's a major difference because argons barrel have not enough twists. It's it's just about 70.7. So it cannot possibly using heavy load bullets for our guns. We right now, right? Think it is time to make a similar argument that I use that I guess body and the wall system and this thing is the same that is resale. But the barrels is standard for argons because a lot of people can have access for standard argon ammunition and not have a special barrel for special purpose. But right now we starting two to three caliber and this argon have same same parameters as I use it for the records. So we hope we get in the Christmas, get in the market. I'm not sure I'm still still stuck from not technological, but we make a lot of accessories for our guns and others. And my polymer for cushion is on my company and my employees have so we must pay bills. And yeah, the accessories pay the bills. Right. Yes, exactly. And for this special things, it's it's my dream. Get on the market, but it's get slowly. Primarily must think on stable, stable grounds and can get to the future for our gun and or my dream is get bridge from firearms all kinds to the argons. Primarily in Europe, because in Europe and Czech Republic, we have a big problem, which distance for shooting range in Czech Republic. Public shooting range is about macro distance, about 500 meters. That is about 600 yards, not even 600 yards. That is for me, my primary reason that I should think argons because 600 yards is nothing for a wrong range argon for a wrong range of firearms. And I get I get more and only possibility for me is the argons. So for many European countries, it's have similar problems. And I know firearms still have advantage, higher speed, better ballistic coefficients. But the gap is not that big, the big one that was about five years back. So this is this is the dream for me. Get special division for shooting 400, 500, 600 or even even 1000 yards in competition with argon. And think the role that we have we not need to use a shooting range. It's more possible in Europe or that where it's very limitation. Yes, yes. Well, I love what you're doing. I love that we are both into the long range game. And we just we have different ways of getting that little projectile traveling and then from then on, it's the same thing for for Mark and Sam and for for you and for me and people all over the world. My other friend with a similar name to yours is in in Russia. We all have similar passions of getting that little bullet going and seeing how far we can get it to go. And so exactly what is your favorite distance to shoot? And the reason I ask that is for me, if you came over to visit me in Wyoming, we would get on our ATVs or our four wheelers and we would go out into the desert and we would find a rock on a hillside and we would range it with our range finder and say, OK, it's thirteen hundred and seventy five yards away. And then we would put our our dope into our scope and try to hit it and shoot a number of shots before we get it. For me, I love that distance, especially if I'm shooting steel because you can't hear steel at two miles, you don't hear that ring. So I like it when it's closer. What is your preferred distance? If you're just going out and shooting for fun, what distance do you like to shoot? Yeah, I have no preferred distance for me. I like to look how it's able possible shooting very good groups. So if I have a choice, I like about one thousand yards. It's relatively good distance for our guns. Wind is not so crazy. Times is about five five seconds to impact. It's not too crazy, like one miles. And it's one advantage because we require very in very high distance from the grounds. Wind is consistent. It's consistent. So it's it's not like a firearms where you fire. A couple of couple of meters underground. We get about 40, 30, 50 meters for thousand yards shots. So wind make more stable. It's it's more predictable. And that is why it's good shooting for the distance. But I'm turning 200 yards, 400 yards, 500 yards. It's it's on one thousand yards. I have much less opportunity to think on the distance. And same time, it's again more difficult because I must focus on people when get around the target. So it's not perfect because inter-public is population very high, depend on square meters on on. I say it's very high density of population. So many people come around the target every time. So I must still be very careful that I'm shooting safety and for very safety, you should think it's about 200 or 300 meters, right? I'm surely that is nobody around. Right, right. Well, very good. And I'm glad you brought the safety thing up. That's that's something that I don't think everyone realizes that a serious long range shooter really thinks about this. It's not like a person who goes out shooting once a year to hunt a deer. We think about who might someone ride a bicycle or a car or a TV between us and what is beyond our target. If we mess up and we turn the scope a full dial to many, are we still safe where we're shooting? And that safety thing is is very important. So what questions haven't I asked you that I should have asked you? What else can you think of? I'm not sure. I will question maybe I react on your last last say in our goons on one mile, you must be carry also about the low ground. Yes, exactly. You should think about. The bullets will get the altitude about I'm not sure for on feed, but about 240 yards from the ground. So this is your you can even looking in the sky, what is the most most dangerous space that in the ground between you and the target, of course, around the target is the danger. But between the distance, it's not. That's danger that like in in the sky between you and targets. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and chatting with me. And yeah, I got to.