 That would be great. And I'm gonna start sharing my screen now so we can introduce ourselves to the speakers while we wait as well. Again, welcome everyone, thanks for joining. The book launch and panel event for Ray Atchison's forthcoming book, which is titled, Manning the Bomb, Smashing the Patriarchy. You can see that this event was co-sponsored by quite a few amazing organizations and I'm really excited to have everyone here. So if you could introduce yourself in the chat box and just tell us your name, where you're sitting in from and if you are also affiliated with an organization, that would be great. And we'll just wait for everyone to join us. Again, I see new people are joining as we speak. So welcome, thank you again everyone. It's like having a chair and CEO. If you are joining us and you're just entering the room, we're just introducing ourselves in the chat box. I see people are already doing it. Just give us your name, your organizational affiliation if you have one and tell us where you're zooming in from. We have people often from around the country and around the world at our events and we love to see who's with us. Excellent. I see people, like I said, from around the world and around the country. So it's really great to see so many people here so far. We're gonna wait a couple more minutes and then we'll get started really shortly. Welcome, Chris, all the way from Australia. Very cool to have you here and everyone who's joined us so far. I still see people joining in our waiting room. So I'm gonna give it one more minute. Really great to see everyone on the call so far. All right. So I think it's about that time. We still have people streaming in but I think we can go ahead and get started now and kick off our event. Again, thank you everyone for joining us for this excellent event today. I'm really excited to have everyone here. I'm gonna stop sharing my screen so we can see people's faces and everyone who's in the room so far. Welcome. I'm very excited, as I said, to host this event. And so this event is banning the bomb, smashing the patriarchy, which is going to be a book launch and panel event with Ray Acheson's new book. The event is co-sponsored by United for Peace and Justice, Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, Beyond the Bomb, Chicago Area Peace Action and Feminist Foreign Policy Project. This event was organized by Code Pink and just right off the top, I just wanna thank and recognize the work of both of my colleagues, Madison Ting and Grace Stiglman who helped put this event together as well. So thank you both of you. So without further ado, I'm really excited to get started. So today we have the great opportunity to get to preview an exciting book, like I've said, Banning the Bomb, Smashing the Patriarchy, written by Ray Acheson, which is out in June of 2021. The story in this book offers a look inside the anti-nuclear movement and it's recent successful campaign to ban the bomb. From scrappy organizing to winning the Nobel Prize in 2017 and achieving a landmark UN treaty banning nuclear weapons. So today we're gonna first hear from Ray Acheson who will provide a preview into their new book. Then we'll turn to a panel discussion, which will be moderated by Code Pink co-founder Jerry Evans with Ray and two panelists who I'm very excited to have on the call, Molly Hurley and Yu-Kyeong Ko who will expand on and discuss how the theme in Ray's books are still relevant to anti-nuclear peace and feminist organizing today. And finally, after that panel discussion, we're gonna have some time for audience Q&A. It's really great to see people's faces. So during Ray's talk and while the panelists are having their discussion and are in conversation, please feel free to write down any questions in the chat box. And my colleague, Grace, will be collecting those questions throughout the events. Another note that this event is being recorded and it's also being streamed on the Code Pink YouTube, Facebook and Twitter account. So we also have people watching us there. So welcome to you in the social media sphere as well. So without further ado, I'm gonna welcome Ray Atchison. Ray Atchison is currently director of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom's disarmament program in New York City. Ray leads the organization's work on stigmatizing war and violence, advocating and organizing for disarmament and raising feminist perspectives on militarism and weapons. Ray represents with the International Steering Group of the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons, ICANN, which won the 2017 Nobel Peace Prize. Ray has been awarded the 2020 Nuclear Free Future Award and the 2018 UN Women Metro New York Champion of Change Prize. So welcome, Ray. Thanks so much, Carly, really appreciate it. And thanks to Code Pink for organizing this event. It was Jody's idea. She was writing a review blurb for the book, which I'm also very grateful for and said, why don't we do a book launch event when this comes out? So thanks to her and thanks also to Carly Grace and Madison for putting all of this together and Yu-Kyeong and Molly for joining the discussion. And of course, all of you. I wish, before we started this panel, I was saying I wish we were all in a bookshop together, but that it's not possible for everyone to join from all of these places. And I'm really excited to see so many wolfers from around the world on this call, including Australia, where the first draft of this book was actually written and where ICANN was founded in 2007. So thanks everyone for being here and chatting about this book with us today. I'm gonna provide a little bit of information about what the book covers and why I wrote it. And then I'll do a short reading from the book. I think that's something that works well in bookshops, but we're gonna give it a go here on Zoom and hope that it doesn't put you to sleep. But we'll see. I would appreciate feedback too if you think book readings work after the event. So first of all, the book for those who aren't really familiar about what they showed up for given the title is about the process to negotiate the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons, which took place sort of over the last decade of work on this specific treaty, building of course off of many decades of anti-nuclear organizing and activism throughout the generations. And this is a very particular telling of the story of this treaty. There's gonna be a lot of different perspectives and experiences of developing this treaty. And what I try to do with this book is offer a feminist, queer, post-colonial, anti-militarist perspective. Because otherwise, as we know, these perspectives are usually written out of history or diminished or put on as lenses later on after the fact for particular analyses. But I really wanted to foreground these approaches and experiences in a work about the treaty. So the book starts out by providing some of the history and contacts to the problem of nuclear weapons, explaining the patriarchal, colonial, racist, capitalist underpinnings to the nuclear weapon complex and system throughout the world. And it offers a brief overview also of global activism against the bomb and international efforts diplomatically that have taken place for nuclear disarmament from 1945 when they were first created to around 2010. And it gives an analysis of these efforts and zooms in on kind of the post-Cold War era looking at what happened to the anti-nuclear movement and what challenges we faced at the beginning of the ban process. And then the book starts diving into how diplomats and activists began agitating for this treaty starting around 2010, a little before that. And it sets out the strategy of shifting the nuclear weapon discourse from one of deterrence and abstract security policy to one that really focuses on the humanitarian consequences of nuclear weapons. And it describes some of the diplomatic processes that the non-nuclear armed states have tried for nuclear disarmament over the years and how that kind of fed into this particular process. There's a chapter in the book called karaoke and campaigning that I'm hoping people will enjoy. It sort of explores more of the human as well as the institutional processes that enabled the development of a lot of the intellectual ideas and the collective momentum for a ban treaty. And so it looks at how activists and organizers were working with government officials to try and build up interest and capacity both at the diplomatic government level but also building a network of campaigners transnationally. And it looks also at the ways that working from the legacy and the lessons of the feminist, queer, indigenous and post-colonial activism and movements to challenge knowledge production. And it looks at sort of the legacies of these movements for lessons that could be learned for our struggle. And the book also tries to grapple with things that the campaign got wrong, areas where we struggled internally or with governments and some of our successes in this realm as well. And then it kind of takes a deep dive from there into the UN. I'm sure some people will find those parts of the books interesting. And others might find them not as interesting but it really tries to look at the process itself of how we had this conversation in the UN kind of the mechanisms of bringing the humanitarian discourse into the UN, making the political case for the ban and looking also at what the challenges were that we faced there, especially in relation to pressure from the nuclear arm stage which really pushed back strongly against this effort to ban nuclear weapons. So there's a chapter about courage which outlines the growing momentum for the treaty but exposes also a lot of the pressure tactics that were used to try and prevent this treaty. And it looks at moments when the hostile opposition to the nuclear ban actually fostered more support for the treaty. A lot of their efforts actually backfired on them. And I think that's important to document for others that are doing this kind of organizing work that a lot of arrogance, racism, patriarchy and sexism that was very overt in the pushback against the nuclear ban treaty actually helped propel more states to support it than pushed it away from it. And then the book finally walks through some of the actual treaty negotiations and it looks at the treaty text itself, why we have what we have in the letter of the treaty now but also it looks at the substance of those negotiations, the process, looking at the contributions from different activist groups and survivors and what different government positions were and some of the challenging points of negotiation and the outcome itself and the reaction from a lot of the diplomats and organizers that worked on the treaty. And then in the conclusion it looks at where we go from here where the nuclear weapon discourse shift and the negotiation of this treaty has taken us and where we need it to go next. So it looks at the relationship of this process for example to other contemporary movements for social justice and tries to offer some hope for social change amidst what might sometimes feel like a hopeless situation. And so I'm gonna read a short bit from the conclusion now which I hope will set us up for the discussion questions that Carly and others have prepared for us today. After about seven years of concerted effort and nearly seven decades of anti-nuclear activism and international diplomatic initiatives for nuclear disarmament, the world finally banned the bomb along with a collaborative endeavor to challenge the dominant nuclear weapon discourse through which we sought a paradigm shift from abstract but deadly theories like nuclear deterrence towards an evidence-based human centered approach to nuclear weapons. Leaders of the humanitarian initiative used the compelling narrative of catastrophic humanitarian harm to stigmatize and prohibit nuclear weapons. This was as one diplomat noted a victory for multilateralism for working together. We could not do it alone. There is safety in numbers, especially when pitted against the so-called major powers. The way in which like-minded governments, activists and a few academics and humanitarian groups like the International Committee of the Red Cross came together on this subject is indeed a testament to what can be accomplished when people cooperate in creative innovative ways to solve a seemingly intractable problem. But just as the work to achieve nuclear ban is not the beginning of the story of anti-nuclear activism, the adoption of the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons at the UN on 7 July, 2017 is certainly not the end. Much remains to be done to secure the treaties full and effective implementation to bring as many countries on board as possible to continue to stigmatize nuclear weapons as an effort towards social justice and human security. And of course to achieve the total abolition of these weapons once and for all. But as we engage in this work, it's helpful to remember as E.P. Thompson wrote that social movements do not often attain their goals at their first moments of assertion. What they do more often is transform the climate of expectations and redefine the limits of what is possible. Redefining the limits of the possible was a key goal and outcome of the ban treaty process. For so long, the nuclear arm states dictated what was possible in the realm of nuclear disarmament. And after operating on their terms for decades, it was clear that on those terms, nuclear weapons would continue to be embedded in the national imaginations as well as the economies, politics and conceptions of security for the indefinite future. Changing this assertion that progress on nuclear disarmament is not possible was instrumental to achieving the ban treaty and remains imperative to achieving the elimination of nuclear weapons. Our continued work to abolish nuclear weapons may also require shifts in the way we organize and who we organize with. As anti-nuclear activists, but also as diplomats, academics and others, we need to reflect on the fact that we achieved this treaty by prioritizing the voices of those usually not treated as credible or relevant in this field. We actively sought to break down barriers building up capacity and bringing people along, particularly those normally not engaged in thinking or acting against nuclear weapons. I think this needs to be at the core of our work moving forward. This means, among other things, centering our efforts to eliminate nuclear weapons in broader contexts and working with people addressing other issues. This does not necessarily mean that we need to try to recreate the mass movements for nuclear disarmament that we experienced in earlier decades. It also doesn't mean that we need to ask people to turn away from their campaigns on other issues and join ours, quite the opposite. It means situating our analysis of the bomb in spaces and in language that can support and learn from other struggles for social justice, including, for example, indigenous, queer, feminist, anti-racist, anti-capitalist and environmental struggles, struggles for human security, liberation and justice. Some of the ongoing work described in the conclusion, like seeking ratifications for the treaty's entry into force, urging economic divestment from nuclear weapons, adopting city council resolutions and pursuing parliamentary engagement and public awareness, are being worked on mostly in isolation of other struggles. But I believe that we can find connections between this work and the broader work of systemic change when faced with the violence of settler colonialism, imperial intervention, war and armed conflict, mass incarceration, poverty, displacement, sexism, homophobia and transphobia, racism, environmental devastation, violence in our homes and communities, all of this, nuclear weapons may seem like an abstraction in comparison, but these weapons are part of the spectrum of institutionalized violence. As objects, they can manifest the most violence in a single moment, the most death, destruction and despair. Even without being launched, they are used to reject power and invincibility of their possessor. They are the pinnacle of the state's monopoly on violence, the ultimate signifier of domination. Thus, it's important for those resisting injustice and oppression to pay attention to the role that nuclear weapons play in our world order, including at the intersection of patriarchal, racist, colonial and capitalist oppressions. But even more so, it's crucial for those opposing nuclear weapons to pay attention to the ways in which the critiques and strategies of resistance of these oppressions can help inform, guide and shape the work to abolish nuclear weapons. So I'm going to stop there and happy to have this conversation now with the others on the panel. Thanks very much, Carly. Yeah, thank you, Ray. That was excellent. That's how people doing some clapping. I wish, like you said, we were in a bookstore. So if you want to clap for Ray, that was really excellent. Thank you for that preview. I'm really excited to read your book, talking about feminist analysis about nuclear weapons is not something we get to do every day. And I also wanted to let people know that you can pre-order, raise book. And because you joined us today, we're going to post a discount code in the chat box with the link to pre-order, raise book, which again comes out in June, 2021. So now I'm going to turn it over to Jody to introduce our panelists along with Ray, who will also have an opportunity to have a three to five minute introduction themselves. Great. Thank you, Ray. And thank you, Carly, for organizing and holding us together. Having these conversations are so important right now as we witness the United States aggression towards China and Russia. In eliminating nuclear weapons is core messaging and our China's not our enemy campaign. It could pink that Madison Tang runs. And my first arrest was in 1969 outside the nuclear weapon test site in Nevada desert. So this has been an issue that's been core to my engagement for over 50 years. I want to bring in our panelists now. I want to start with Molly Hurley, who's the Wagner Fellow from Rice University, Nuclear Program Fellow with the Prospect Hill Foundation and Fellowship Associate with Beyond the Bomb. And Molly maybe tells a little bit more about you so we can get to know you better. Yeah, sure. Happy to. Let's see here. So all those different titles essentially kind of culminate into me doing a lot of work on nuclear weapons issues, but primarily from an intersectional perspective and then kind of my extra special twist is that I do a lot of, especially recently been doing a lot of focus on artwork and how the visual arts can be used as a method for telling stories, delivering messages and really helping generate these alternative narratives that we're all working on aside from kind of the Pentagon's US government sort of narrative that nuclear weapons keep us safe. And of course, it makes sense to spend $1.7 trillion over the next 30 years on our nuclear arsenal, modernizing it and everything. Whereas I think a lot of people that we speak to, indigenous people, people of color, people of lower socioeconomic status and everything have a very different story to tell. And so that's something that I've been trying to focus on a lot is how I can use perhaps some of my own artwork that I create to help tell these stories, but then also how other people are doing that. And I do a fair amount of writing as well. I wrote an article for InkStick about Orientalism in our foreign and nuclear policy with that kind of explores this, what's the right way to say it? This assumption, I guess, that the US and the UK, they can have nuclear weapons because they're responsible countries and it's not a big deal if we have nuclear weapons, but China, India, Pakistan, North Korea, that's a big no-no, Iran too. All of a sudden, it's a really big deal that these countries have nuclear weapons, even if it's like barely in the hundreds or something as opposed to the US with nearly 6,000 if you include retired weapons too. And so definitely this hypocrisy in how kind of the mainstream dialogue discusses and conceptualizes nuclear weapons and what their relationship is. And so those are some of the topics that I explore. It's an ongoing project, just kinda have fun with it as much fun as one can have with a topic like nuclear weapons, I guess. Thank you so much, Molly. And Yu Kyung-co is with Wilf, the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom and the Women-Led Korea Peace Now campaign and a standing committee member of the Korea Peace Appeal Campaign. Maybe you could tell us a little more than what I've just said about what you do. Thank you, Jody. And hi, everyone. Yeah, I'm Yu Kyung-co from Seoul, South Korea. And thank you for inviting me to speak at this webinar. And first and foremost, congratulations to Ray, my colleague of Wilf for publishing the book, banning the bombs, smashing the patriarchy. I much appreciate your passion and hard work to create a world without nuclear weapons and patriarchy. Let me introduce myself. As Jody said, I'm a consultant for Wilf and the Women-Led Korea Peace Now campaign, which was launched in 2019 to end the Korean War with a peace agreement. In 2019, Korea Peace Now released a report on the gendered impact of sanctions on North Korea, which shows that UN sanctions impact women socially, economically, and physically. In February of this year, Korea Peace Now published the past peace report, which makes the case that a peace agreement would lower tensions and make room for progress on issues such as improved human rights and denuclearization. Korea Peace Now has convened meetings with women from North Korea, South Korea, China, Japan, the United States, and Canada to discuss how women can contribute to the peace process. I'm also a standing committee member of the Korea Peace Now campaign, which was launched in July last year. This is a three-year campaign to collect a hundred million signatures on the Korea Peace Now appeal to end the Korean War. I would like to invite you to join the campaign and sign the appeal. And I have worked for many years on the impact of the U.S. ROK alliance and the U.S. military presence in South Korea. U.S. forces have been stationed in bases in many provinces throughout South Korea over seven decades. The largest overseas U.S. Army base in the world is Camp Humphries in Pyeongtaek, South Korea. U.S. military operations have jeopardized the safety of South Korean residents near the bases. However, the U.S. military doesn't always take responsibility or accountability for it, arguing that they are exceptional. I have struggled to find the answer to the most frequent question from the resident, which is whom the military is protecting and for what purpose. These are what I have been working on and I look forward to tonight's discussion. Thank you. Thank you very much and that's a very good question. So let's move into some questions. First of all, Ray's book says the world we seek to build, a world of solidarity, health and well-being across peoples and our shared planet is not compatible with a world with nuclear weapons. Can each of you talk more about how you incorporate this in your day-to-day work? So maybe let's start with you, Ray and we'll move to Molly and you can. Yeah, thanks, Jody. So one of the foremost ways you can talk about this and think about this is how nuclear weapons steal resources and Molly already mentioned the 1.7 trillion that the United States is planning to spend over the next 30 years on its nuclear arsenal. And that's consistent regardless of who's in the White House, the US nuclear weapon modernization schemes and all that that entails. It's about $50 billion a year that it's set to spend this year. We've seen that Biden has been proposing military budget increases despite the pandemic. The UK is already spending billions on the replacement of its Trident nuclear weapons system and now has recently announced that it's going to increase its nuclear arsenal by up to 44% at the same time that it's cutting the National Health Service and other social spending. So we can find these examples in all of the nuclear arm states. But it's not just about the money, right? The money is a big part of it and is really important for our campaigning in terms of divestment. But it's also about the framing of nuclear weapons, of this idea of extreme genocidal violence being the ultimate protection for so-called state security and how this can cordon off the possibility of building other kinds of relationships among countries. We can see this with the increasing tensions between the nuclear armed NATO and nuclear armed Russia and China and the strategies of all of these countries being very much pitted against one another and framed in this sense of they need more weapons, more militarization in order to stand up to each other. So we need to divest from nuclear weapons financially and that's an important part of the work that I do with ICANN and with Wilf but we also need to divest from nuclear weapons philosophically and conceptually. Just like with, for example, police and prison abolition where we're talking about not just tearing down the carceral system but also building back up in its place, new ideas and structures and mechanisms for safety and security by investing in jobs and housing and food and education instead of continuously investing into violence and domination and control. Thank you, Molly. Yeah, let's hear. For me, I mean, I'll speak in terms of my work with Beyond the Bomb too as they are also a sponsor for this event. Beyond the Bomb is actually the organization that first got me involved in nuclear weapons issues and what's happening in the world with nuclear weapons before this, I don't think I knew a single thing about nuclear weapons aside from Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, right? And so from the get go, Beyond the Bomb immediately introduced me to these topics as this is one of the most intersectional issues we could be dealing with today. At Beyond the Bomb, we call it issue zero because you really can link just about any other issue out there to nuclear weapons and their history and the oppression that the just existence of our nuclear arsenal and maintenance of it and everything impacts on the rest of the world. And the whole point really of our organization is to one day reach a world where we have moved beyond the bomb, beyond having to have these weapons of mass destruction to give some sort of illusion of world peace, which is really what we've been living under since 1945. And I've really taken that lesson home. Everything I think about, especially I mean, also if we think about how I want to incorporate like artwork into my work and everything too is about uplifting the non-traditional voices that we don't ever get to hear in the mainstream and everything. And I mean, when Ray was reading that excerpt, they touched on so many topics that are so true about the relevancy to nuclear weapons, economic justice, racial justice, gender justice, imperialist violence, like all of these have ties to our nuclear history. And I think also what's important, something that I really keep in mind a lot is that because it is so, it's permeated so much of our society and history and world, it does seem very, very overwhelming to try to solve and everything. And so it's something else that I do in my work is that I really want to try to emphasize that like progress is possible. It feels like this really massive intractable issue that we cannot possibly solve, probably definitely on the level of like climate change where it just feels like something that's so large and how could I possibly do anything to fix this? But the same way that people have been addressing climate change in recent years is exactly what I think Ray and I can and everyone involved with the TPNW has been doing, which is just mobilizing. Change in progress is possible on not just climate change, but nuclear weapons issues too. And it's all a matter of just doing what you can do, which is voicing your support, things like supporting ICANN or beyond the bomb, writing your representative. We focus a lot on getting a policy of no first use pass personally about my organization within the US. And you see it kind of was like the first domino in this row of dominoes that needs to fall to get us to that world where we are beyond the bomb and we don't have to rely on nuclear weapons. And I think if I'm gonna use that domino analogy, it's not a linear domino effect either. We can approach this from so many angles and that's something that is kind of convenient about it being so intersectional. And I also touched on in her excerpt, we can come at this from the tons of angles from a racial justice angle, a climate angle, an economic justice angle and even just a little bit of progress from any of those directions is a huge amount of progress for the overall goal of eliminating nuclear weapons, I think. And so in my day to day work, I think what I try to focus on is just keeping in mind that with enough people working on this from enough different angles and our movement is definitely building right now, like, I mean, we've already seen proof like the TPNW like was ratified and it's entered into force. That wouldn't have happened without the kind of work that Ray and I can are doing, but not just them, but all of the activists on the ground affiliated with their organization and everything. And if we just keep at this, we can keep moving forward. So it is, I do think that we have hopeful prospects. It seems very overwhelming, but only at first. Thanks, Molly. And don't forget about shaming people that think nuclear weapons are a good idea, should be a daily practice. And I love that Robert put in the chat that real men use bow and arrows. And just that nuclear weapons are barbaric and that needs to be remembered. That it may be a modern invention, but it's barbarism at a level that is unfathomable. So Yu-kyung, do you wanna answer the question? Thank you. Thank you, Jody. Yeah, thank you, Jody. The world I seek to build is living together without fear of discrimination or violence. We witnessed the destructive power of nuclear weapons when the US military used them in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The impact continues for generations. Since that time, the number of nuclear arms states has increased as countries sold nuclear weapons as a key to their self-defense. This was the case with the DPRK, North Korea. During the Korean War in 1950, the US considered using nuclear bombs, especially in North Korea. The US military deployed nuclear weapons in South Korea beginning in 1958. And at one point, there were as many as 950 tactical nuclear weapons in South Korea. And your joint military exercises between the United States and the ROK have been known to include rehearsing the use of nuclear weapons. Although the US withdrew its tactical nuclear weapons from the peninsula in 1991, the DPRK began producing nuclear weapons for their survival. There were agreements between the United States and the DPRK in the early 1990s to create a nuclear-free Korean peninsula. However, when President Bush took office, talks between the US and the DPRK collapsed, as he called the country, part of an axis of evil. Most experts agree the DPRK will not give up its nuclear weapons because it sees them as key to its survival in its long-standing conflict with the United States. And this confrontation may lead to another nuclear arms state in Northeast Asia. The ROK, even under the nuclear umbrella provided by the United States, has been enormously investing in conventional and high-tech weapons to counter the nuclear weapons systems of the DPRK. The ROK's defense budget is estimated to be more than the DPRK's gross domestic product. The ROK's defense budget is 50 times the budget of the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family. When governments spend resources on nuclear weapons and other weapons, they deprive people of things that make us genuinely secure. We cannot solve the biggest challenges such as the pandemic, climate change, to our collective security through weapons. Korea has been under a state of armistice for 70 Ks since the Korean War. The Korea Peace Now campaign advocates a peace first approach, officially ending the Korean War with a peace agreement as a key to de-escalating the nuclear standoff and creating space for our negotiated resolution. To create genuine human security, government must give up notions of militarized security and switch from a mentality of competition with weapons to global solidarity and corporations. Thank you. Thank you. And you call it the Korean War. I just want to say as we're working on the aggression of the US towards China, that I don't think it was a Korean War. I think it was a war on Korea by the United States. And you said the longstanding conflict, but again, it's a little one-sided. It's more like the Korean people trying to protect themselves by the aggression of the US, which was a level of violence that we even don't hear about in our history books and Americans are very uninformed about. And also just a reminder that you talked about the cost of the bomb dropping in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, but one million people have died from the testing of nuclear weapons and where we violated the human rights of indigenous communities across the Pacific and other areas that we've devastated of the planet. Ray's book talks about disrupting dominant narratives about nuclear weapons, the myths of deterrence doctrine and the strategic security and how to come up with alternatives. What are those alternatives and what are some narratives about the true destructive nature of nuclear weapons what can they be replaced by? Like, I think I wanna start with you, Molly, because you talked about that. And, but like, what is in its place since you spent a lot of time talking about that, what can, it's like, what are people attached to? How do we get them unattached and what do we give them with? At Co-op, we call that there's a war economy and we get to a peace economy. And it's like, what is that process if you wanna start with that one? Yeah, I can totally. Let me see here, there are so many just untold narratives out there about the effects of nuclear weapons and our history with nuclear weapons out there, not just what happened in Japan, but beyond that as well, if we think about all the nuclear tests we did in the Marshall Islands and the generational trauma that has given to Marshallese people and the lack of responsibility that the US has taken for just everything we've caused to the Marshall Islands, their inability to grow food without it being contaminated by radiation still and the generational health effects from the exposure to radiation and so much more. And even within our own state, like domestically, if we think about the downwinders or the uranium miners, the indigenous uranium miners, these are people within our own borders that have also suffered generational trauma from our nuclear arsenal that we never hear about. Kind of another big legislation that Beyond the Bomb is working on is the expansion and extension of WECA, which is the Radiation Exposure Compensation Act. It is currently set to expire in 2022 and so we're working to get that extended. The most comprehensive bill to extend and expand it was introduced in 2019, I believe, to extend it to 2045, but it's not just extend, but it's also expand because there's a wide swath of downwinder populations and uranium miner populations that do not currently qualify under WECA for compensation and everything. And in addition, the funding currently going into it is a fraction of what we spend on nuclear weapons. Current downwinders who do happen to qualify for WECA don't even get enough money to afford a single chemo treatment for the cancer that they've inherited down generations and everything. In addition, this Friday we are doing the premiere of this award-winning film called False Alarm, which explores what it was like in Hawaii a few years ago when everyone in that state just suddenly got a text that there was an incoming missile and everyone had to take shelter and it turns out it was a false alarm and there was a missile, yeah. So we are working a lot to tell these stories the people who just get left out of the mainstream narrative all we hear about is that nuclear weapons keep us safe and we need more and updated nuclear weapons to protect us from North Korea, from China, from Russia. All of these countries in the East are evil and they're gonna destroy us even though we're the ones with some of the most nuclear weapons in the entire world by like a long shot and everything. So there's so much extra story to tell outside of what is currently being told in mainstream conversations, the Marshall Islanders, the indigenous Iranian miners, the downwinders, the hypocrisy and how we treat other countries with nuclear weapons if they're part of the Western hegemony or not. And I think, and all we can really do is educate ourselves and try to educate others which is why I'm so grateful for the platform that Yama Bomb provides me, Code Pink has provided me and now Ray's Book is going to be like such an amazing new addition to these alternative narratives for what it really means to have nuclear weapons still in existence and to have such a huge arsenal of nuclear weapons in the U.S. just alone but around the world and everything. And so just at the, yeah, all it really comes down to is education and I've definitely become that one annoying political friend that when someone new asks me like, what do you do for work? I'm like, oh, let me tell you. And then all my other friends will be like, oh my gosh, don't get her started. But it's a side passion doing that to my friends and everything. So education is the biggest thing for bringing these alternative narratives to light. Cause I think I would like to think most decent people out there when they hear about the suffering that has been endured due to our nuclear arsenal, weigh it up against the very minuscule benefits we do actually get from nuclear weapons if we get any. We'll be like, wow, now that I know this, like it's completely changed the way I think about things or honestly, it's probably largely just a lack of education completely. People just have no idea. So being loud and annoying is like my thing on social media and that's one of my approaches for getting some more education out there. I think, cause I think so many people were like me before I started working with Beyond the Bomb where you just, you don't know and no one ever tells you, no one ever teaches you these things. So that's what we're all here for and I'm really excited for Ray's book. I think it's gonna do that as well. So thank you Molly. And thank you for being so enthusiastic and also I see Cynthia Lazarus is on with us and she tells a great story about that mistake in Hawaii that was quite terrifying in her life and you can hear her tell that on our YouTube channel, China's Not Our Enemy, if you wanna hear that story because it is quite for her to be able to recount it. It's for us to really feel what that could feel like. That was quite real. So Ray, did you wanna take on that question? Should I repeat it? No, I think I got it, thank you. And yeah, I definitely wanna endorse what Molly said. I agree with all of that. The alternatives are in the stories of lived reality. So a lot of this will come from testimony of survivors of nuclear violence, of which there is much, right? We're told that nuclear weapons are meant to never be used, that they're for nuclear deterrents, blah, blah, blah, all of those myths that are shoved down our throats about what nuclear weapons do in our fore, but that doesn't match up with the actual experience of human beings around the world, right? That doesn't match up with, for example, the experience of the Western Shoshone in the United States. They're the most bombed nation on earth, thousands of nuclear tests. There's been almost 2,000 nuclear tests in the whole world, most of which people aren't aware of. I recently found out that colleagues of mine that are European didn't know that the French had tested nuclear weapons in Algeria before and after it was a colony. And just the level of things that we don't know that we don't know is really high when it comes to nuclear weapons. There's a recent study that some brilliant researchers put out just maybe a month or so ago called the Meralingue files, which is about French nuclear testing in what's known as French Polynesia. And how vastly they quote unquote underestimated, which is really to say did not care about the level of contamination and the number of people that would be harmed from their tests in the Pacific oceans, which resulted in entire islands being irradiated, entire islands populated with human beings, not to mention plants and animal and the oceans themselves. So these stories are there, but they're deliberately hidden and obscured. And that's one of the things that the Meralingue files unpacks is the level to which the French government went to hide the reality of their nuclear tests. So we have these examples from the UK testing in Australia saying that, oh, they did it on empty lands in the outback. Well, the indigenous people that lived there will tell you that those lands were not empty at all. And what Molly was describing about testing in the US is very true as well. I think also in addition to the stories from survivors, there's also the research and publishing by groups like the Princeton affiliates and the investigative researchers that did the Meralingue files, but also studies by doctors on human health effects of radiation, the studies that were put out by different humanitarian agencies, including the Red Cross, when we were sort of building up to the Ban Treaty, we all had held a series of humanitarian impact conferences. And we got a lot of these groups to do updated studies on their possible responses to even the detonation of a single nuclear weapon and just finding that there was no way they could adequately respond to a nuclear catastrophe. Studies by researchers and historians also about what happened to people land and water near where nuclear weapons have been built. So looking at the legacies of the plutonium sites, Kate Brown's book, Plutopia does a great job of this looking at where plutonium was made for nuclear bombs in the United States and Russia and just the devastating legacy that these facilities have left in their wake or Joseph Masco's, the nuclear borderlands looking at, you know, the nuclear weapon lab in New Mexico and just these very real, difficult, challenging stories about what we've done to our world. All of this helps to really chip away at the official narrative, but people have to be open to it, right? That's the other thing because challenging what we're told by the government that is supposed to keep us safe, that's hard for a lot of people. As peace activists were naturally inclined towards it, we're very skeptical of what our governments are saying, but for a lot of people, it's an internal reckoning that has to happen. They have to be willing to step outside of their comfort zones. And we don't know when that moment is gonna happen for people when that curtain gets pulled back for them. But having this material and having it be accessible is really important. And I think art here is very, very, very important. Great to hear about that film about Hawaii. There's also a virtual reality project that I know Cynthia's been a part of as well as others looking at that situation as well. One of the most powerful art pieces I've seen recently on nuclear weapons has been Kathleen Jitnell Kitchener's Anointed poem. I don't know if any of you have seen that about nuclear weapon, the US nuclear weapon testing and storage of nuclear waste in the Marshall Islands. And I've seen it a million times and it's so impactful that I feel it every time I watch that poem. So I think the more that we can do to make these alternative narratives accessible and engaging for people and really reaching people on a very human level is so important. Thank you, Ray. And I'm a downwinder, my grandmother, my mother and myself, we had thyroid cancer because of living in Nevada next to the test site. But Terry Tempest-Williams writes an amazing book about so that the wind those days was blowing towards Utah and her family's dead and my family just got thyroid cancer. But literally the south of Utah, there's entire generation that isn't alive anymore for those testings. Yu-Kyeong, did you wanna add any more to that question? Can you talk a bit about it in your other response? Yeah, I actually really agree with you and Ray's saying about the peoples who died because of the test and other operations for developing nuclear weapons. So we should remember that and we should share the stories with other people who feel safe under the nuclear weapons, including umbrella, even umbrella. I don't know what it is, but... And Robert asked me whether I like the US umbrella. I don't like nuclear umbrella. I like Pengsoo umbrella and other umbrella, but accept nuclear weapons umbrella. And yeah, I just say that if nuclear weapons were a deterrent, there would have been no wars or devastating conflict around the world. More nuclear weapons mean more risk of accidental or intentional nuclear war. Instead of deterring nuclear war, nuclear weapons only make other countries want nuclear weapons to ensure their self-defense. So the world dominated by nuclear weapons has been militarized with escalating arms race. I think a better solution would be to eliminate nuclear weapons entirely. That's it. Yes, thank you. So banning the bomb, smashing the patriarchy emphasizes how the work of ICANN deliberately draws on an intersectional feminist vision to guide their process and change. How and why is including an intersectional feminist analysis in our work for peace and portant? And Ray, I wanna start with you. Sorry, just having a mute issue there. Yeah, thanks. So I think one of the most important aspects of this work in terms of intersectional feminism is really about challenging notions of credibility and authority. So it's about having a space and an inclusive and diverse space, of course, for bringing in voices, but also it's about changing the spaces that we're operating in, whether it's the United Nations or whether it's organizing spaces or wherever we might be working, doing our work and smashing those down. It's really hard to get into these systems and change them from within because you become embedded within the power structures, right? You learn to speak the language, you learn the lingua, whether it's techno speak around nuclear weapons or whether it's UNEs with a million acronyms that you need to learn or whatever the sort of language of power is, you learn how to play in that sphere. And so I think what an intersectional approach to issues, whatever the issue might be, gets us is that we're saying the power that has been built within these structures needs to be contested and dismantled. And we need to either be recreating these spaces for ourselves or creating entirely new ones if we can't do that within the structures that exist. Learning also from different movements and struggles. So not just inviting people into our struggle as part of like a diversity and inclusion initiative, which are important, but it's about actually learning from folks that have done this work before, figuring out what it is from the lived experience and reality that they have shared and are willing to bring it into this space with us and looking at the different ways that whatever the oppression or injustice or system of violence is that we're contesting, that we're looking at the depth and the breadth of the harm that's been created across the spectrum of identities and experiences. So whether that's race, gender, class, sexuality, ability, religion, ethnicity, whatever. But it's looking at the different ways that these experiences and the different ways that oppression plays out can help us then contest and dismantle and bring down that system. And also of course to build something that is truly collaborative and respectful and creating an equality of care and justice for all instead of just allowing the privileged few to continue to hold court over our world. Yeah, hope that was clear enough. Thank you. Molly, did you wanna add anything? Short answers, because I think our audience has a ton of questions they wanna get in. Yeah, I'll try to make it brief. I think to sum it up is that if so important to have an intersectional feminist blend in our continued pursuit for peace because in not having that, that's what's brought us to where we are right now, where we have endless borders in the Middle East and a Cold War with China. And yet so many people out there get to say that we've been in this era of peace ever since the end of World War II. And it's like peace for whom? Not for black people in America, not for anyone in the Middle East, not for a random Chinese person minding their own business. Maybe they post a picture of their life on social media and then people accuse them of being like some sort of like Chinese plant trying to exert like Chinese soft power by posting a picture of like their hot pot on Twitter or something. Like I've literally seen that. So yeah, the intersectional and feminist ones is so important because it's what's supposed to help us bring peace to a much wider population, if not the entire population as opposed to right now where the peace that we've experienced since 1945 is for a very privileged class. And that's what we're dealing with by not having this extra intersectional and feminist lens in our peace activism. Thank you. Yu-kyung, did you wanna add anything? Thank you. International feminism can help us understand the gendered impact of war and militarism. And it is useful in our work for peace because it shows us who is most harmed in buying militarism and prioritizes a true human security for all people. You may have heard about the Japanese military sexual slavery system during the Pacific war when the Japanese army sexually enslaved the Korean and other Asian women. One of the stated purposes of the so-called comfort stations for soldiers was to protect ordinary women from being raped by soldiers. The Japanese military used women to provide the sexual services to their soldiers and justified it by saying that this system was protecting other women from being raped. This reflected their view on women as sexual bodies, not human beings. This notion continued during the Korean War when the Korean military operated so-called comfort stations for their soldiers and soldiers from the United States and other countries. Although the armistice was signed in 1953, a similar system continued for US soldiers in South Korea. For a strong defense alliance to deter North Korean aggression, the Archaea government and the US military used women to provide sexual services to US soldiers in camp towns. And the women were stigmatized and silenced for decades. As survivors and their supporters made a tireless effort to spread the truth about the so-called comfort women issue, the world became aware about it, but the relevant government have refused to accept the demands of the survivors. The military has always categorized women as either ordinary women they should protect or women in camp towns or comfort stations to provide them with sexual services. But women came together to abolish this concept and violence against women under the name of national security. Although it took several decades, as Ray said in her book, the past social movement like as the feminist approach and analysis was instrumental in organizing solidarity for women's human rights. Long story short, in 2015, for trilateral military cooperation among the United States, the ROK and Japan, the United States pressured the ROK and Japan to reserve the sexual slavery issue. As a result, the two government agreed to Korea-Japan Comfort Women Agreement without consultation of women's groups or the survivors. The US president praised the leaders of Japan and South Korea for having the craze and vision to forest a lasting settlement of this issue. However, the agreement faced huge outrage and condemnation from the public across South Korea. This struck me as another form of violence against women. Government must consider the voices of those most impacted by militarism. Wow. Yeah. That's an excellent response to that question and thank you so much for bringing that to this meeting. That's, wow, thank you. So I'd like to move to the questions that Grace Siegelman has been collecting. She's our campaign coordinator of the Feminist Form Policy Project and I've got a big list here. And I'd like to come back in about 10 or so minutes and finish with an offering from each of you about what folks can do next to be part of this resistance and movement building. So thanks Grace for collecting these and the first one was where can you purchase the book and are you going to do an Audible? And thank you. It looks like Madison has posted where to purchase the book but maybe Ray, you can tell us if you're gonna do an Audible. Yes, apparently there will be an audiobook coming out. I think they said November. I don't know the process for that. I don't know if it'll be my voice or somebody else's voice. I find both options strange and discomforting though of course having an audiobook is important. So yeah, that should be out in November and also there will be an e-book as well but you can't pre-order that. You can only order it once it's available. So I think the hard copy and the e-book will both be out June 6th. And yes, the links been posted a few times with the discount code. Please share that code as widely as you wish. Thank you. Someone wants to know, do you cover Stalin's 1947 suggestion to give the bomb to the UN in the book? No, I don't look at that point in history. The book very quickly goes through some of the highlights of diplomacy and international organizing but doesn't go into deep history because others have covered that so well. Okay, so does the book have information to help groups and organizations around the world make their own town, cities, counties, nuclear fridge zones? So the book isn't really a manual for that kind of action. It does provide ideas in the conclusion of work that's ongoing. But that is a project of ICANN right now, the ICANN Cities Appeal and many cities around the US as well as other countries that currently don't support the treaty they've been signing on to these appeals. So I'll put the link to that site in the chat box. All right, so someone says, can you talk about ICANN's uncompromising vision of nuclear abolition even in the face of hegemony and what made ICANN special enough for a no-fail piece price? I don't know how to answer the second part of that but in terms of our uncompromising vision, yeah, we stand for the nuclear abolition for the total elimination of all nuclear weapons. And we don't buy into the idea that there's a threshold at which it would be fine for certain countries to have a certain number of nuclear weapons or any of that. We stand for the total elimination of all nuclear weapons. And we don't really mind how it happens either. Like we would love to see it happen through the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons. There are provisions in the treaty, both for states to nuclear armed states to get rid of their weapons and join the treaty or to join the treaty and get rid of their weapons. Either way, they could do it in an agreement outside of the treaty together. They could unilaterally disarm, do it bi-laterally like the US and Russia could do it. We don't care how it's done. We just want it to be done. And we think that the treaty provides both a framework to do it but even more importantly in this moment, the sort of momentum and moral framework to start thinking through how we can achieve elimination. And maybe what you just said is why they qualify for Nobel Peace Prize. Maybe, yes. I mean, it was a great example of transnational advocacy, collaboration between activists and organizers, diplomats, academics, Red Cross, like I said in the beginning. So it was a messy collaboration of many, many people over many years and did achieve something that whilst not, the final nail in the coffin for nuclear weapons is definitely something that propels us further along that path and really opened up space to talk about nuclear weapons publicly again in a very specific way. Thank you. Molly, there's a question for you if you could talk more about art in the anti-nuclear movement and how imperative it is to include perspectives like artists and creatives in this work. I'm sorry, if someone was talking to me through my door, can you repeat the question? How imperative is it to include perspectives like artists and creatives in this work? I think it's so imperative. I think the beauty, the reason I'm so drawn to art and I have been my entire life, even when I was an undergrad and everyone was telling me to do something more practical. So I studied organic chemistry and don't get me wrong, I love organic chemistry, but I just find myself always coming back to art and like here I am now working 180 from chemistry to nuclear weapons issues. And now I'm trying to bring that into artwork and everything. Just everything comes back to art for me, I think because it is such a powerful form of storytelling. And that is something that if you were to do a pretty broad survey of a lot of people working in the nuclear space, whether or not they're pro or anti-nuclear weapons even, I would bet money that a lot of them would tell you that there's a huge dearth in quality storytelling in the space. And so people with artistic creative backgrounds, people who just like spent their entire lives sort of like honing their skills in understanding their own stories, which then kind of in turn helps them tell their stories and tell the stories of others as well, is a huge benefit to delivering these messages we've been talking about for the last like hour, hour and a half of these alternative narratives that get left unheard currently and everything. And it's just so, it can be so raw and emotional to look at a painting or read a poem. I'm one of them raise endorsement of Kathy's poem on YouTube, it's so powerful. The first time I saw, I was just in awe and that's what art can do that. And I think that alone just gives it so much value in any space, but in this space in particular because there are so many other untold stories that we don't get to hear about, but through art and everything, we can tell them and we can tell them in a really, really powerful way. So I think a really important step for getting towards this world without nuclear weapons is changing the narrative and making sure people know the real histories and lived experiences like we've referenced throughout this event and art can do that. And so I think it will be a huge benefit for all of us to stop acting like pursuing art for career means you're automatically going to be a starving artist. I have an article about that coming out tomorrow with the bulletin where I kind of complain about that stereotype. It's art is powerful and the stories that are currently being ignored and everything are equally powerful and if you put them together, we can do some amazing things. Thank you. So I wanna move to a question, are there any indigenous models of futurity or alternative non-hierarchical structures of power that you look to for inspiration in this work? Anybody of the three of you wanna raise your hand around that? Sorry, can you just repeat that, Judy? Sure. Are there any indigenous models of futurity or alternative non-hierarchical structures of power that you look to for inspiration in organizing? Yes, absolutely. So much all of that. Yeah, the indigenous learning and teaching around the nuclear complex has been absolutely instrumental for me personally, but I know many others doing this work as well. Looking at what it means for future generations, given the lifespan of radioactivity, being millions of years, we haven't figured out how to store it. It's spread all over the world. It lives in all of us because of the nuclear testing that's been done and the production that's been done, but also understanding how radiation but also other militarized aspects of the US political economy in particular, but globally as well affects all of our relatives in terms of land and ocean and animals and plants and really viewing ourselves within this broader spectrum of life on this planet and seeing us as not being separate from the environment which even many, many environmental activists still use that type of language as something separate from us but really understanding the inherent relationships between among all forms of life on the planet and the responsibilities that we then have not just to other human beings but to the planet and life on the planet. And I think those are lessons that are so important for anti-nuclear organizing. I mean really for anything but in particular given the material that we're dealing with when it comes to nuclear weapons, production, use testing, storage, uranium mining, all aspects of the steadily chain really need to be thought through in this way and stewardship given to those who have this better relationship with land and life. So I definitely think there's a relationship between land-backed campaigns and water-protecting land-defending campaigns and the anti-nuclear movement that we need to nurture and grow. Thank you. So we're out of time and I wanna give each of you a minute or so to tell us what we can do to engage with you in this effort. So I'm gonna end with you Ray. I'm gonna start with you Molly. Just a minute, like what we're ending what's the thing everybody can sign up to do? Most immediate thing I think people can sign up to do. You can sign up to participate with the premiere of the film Paul's Alarm. It will be this Friday with Be On The Bomb. I believe at 8 p.m. Eastern. You can just go to beonthebomb.org, find the campaign, sign up. You do not have to pay anything to sign up and watch this film, but if you can manage to make any kind of donation, that's great. But that's like the most immediate thing you can sign up for. Otherwise you can also just sign up for emails, keep up with our campaigns, what we're doing, but also do not be shy and do not hesitate to reach out to any of us or me at Be On The Bomb directly. Sorry, I'm trying to think of what email to give out. I'll send out to the viewer from the chat. But anyways, just reach out, check out our website. Paul's Alarm is this Friday, check it out. That's like the most immediate thing you can do with me. So Grace put in the link. If you could put in your email if you want people to reach out to you, that'd be great. Yu-kyung, did you wanna say something? Yeah, thank you for building our movement more and more. I think it is very important to raise people's awareness about our movement and the impact of nuclear weapons and how it is important to have and keep going the TPNW. And actually I would have liked to show the song, a video from the Korea Peace of Peace campaign, but thinking about the time situation, I just will share the link in the chat box and I hope you watch it and enjoy the song. I think a music and song is very important to our movement, even under the COVID. Thank you. And please join the appeal campaign, sign on that. Thank you. So we've got that link in here. And if you could put the link for the song, because that's so important. That's the art piece that we need to remember is so important to our organizing. So thank you so much. Ray, you get to finish. Okay. Well, I'm gonna post in the chat box four links, which are all two different ICANN projects that are ongoing. So there's the city's appeal that I mentioned. There's a parliamentary pledge. There is an American one called the US Congressional Pledge just for you. There's universities, schools of mass destruction, campaign and project. And then there's don't bank on the bomb.com, which is our divestment work. So those are sort of practical things people can get engaged with right now or tomorrow if it's late where you are. But also I think that what I wanna end on is just a note of hope really that one thing, despite all of the naysaying and still ongoing ridicule of this treaty and of our process to achieve it and how it won't have any effect, blah, blah, blah and all the things that we hear and that we are so used to hearing as peace activists is really just that we made international law. This isn't just something that we put up a web link for and said, here's the thing that we wanna see happen. This really happens in real life at the United Nations with 122 countries voting for it. And we were told that it wasn't possible. And now we're told it won't actually achieve anything. So it's a lot easier to move through those comments now that we have done something else we were told we couldn't do. But I think no matter what you're working on that's just the most important message to hold on to is that we can make change if we work together and if we don't give up. And if we don't listen to the naysayers and also just there's also the Code Pink campaign no funding for nuclear weapons. And you can always sign up for Code Pink and getting engaged in our China is not our enemy campaign because that's the new Cold War that's being driven right now and is very current and very frightening. I'm gonna turn it back to Carly to close this out. Thank you. All of you, Ray, Molly looks, yeah, there we go. And Yook Young for joining us today. Carly, take it away. Yeah, thank you, Jodi. And also thank you, Ray, Molly and Yook Young. That was really excellent, really inspiring. I really appreciate the conversations that we were able to have. And just quickly, Jodi mentioned it but we were missed if we didn't mention that we're talking about the movement to abolish nuclear weapons. We're in the United States, President Biden has proposed a Pentagon budget for 2022 which includes a request to fund about $2 trillion during the next decades for nuclear weapons including up to $30 billion in 2022 for new nuclear weapons, which is outrageous. And so, at the end of the day even though that's something that President Biden has proposed in the 2022 Pentagon budget, it's up to Congress, not the president to decide the final budget. So right now, this is the crucial time when we need to actually reach out to you and pressure our Congress members to say no to new funding for nuclear weapons in the 2022 Pentagon budget. So I think Grace or Madison will post a link in the chat but we're asking everyone here to contact their representatives now and tell them no new funding for nuclear weapons. So with that, again, I wanna thank everyone for being on the call. I really appreciate the audience's interaction and it was really good to see people almost like we were in a room together and like Grace said, hopefully one day we can actually attend an actual book screening together or a panel together. So with that, thank you everyone. Have a great rest of your evening. Everyone here will receive the recording of this event as well. Thank you, bye. Bye everyone. Thank you. Thank you, bye. Bye, thank you.