 here the TechCrunch disrupt and who are you? I'm Kumar, Founder and CEO of Kasha, we are P2P marketplace and we are matching cash sender with cryptocurrency traders. From past two, three years we are listening a lot of buzzword about blockchain and Bitcoin but nobody really know that how to include this technology into the mainstream. So what we did, we created a platform which enables people to transfer their cash without any fee. So it's free cash transfer? Yes. And it's all over the world? How does it work? So if you see, this is the current market scenario, if you want to send cash from US, if you send $1,000, you have to pay these kind of unbelievable fees. And for Africa, it's more pity that people claim that Africa needs help, Africa needs attention, Africa need to empowerment. But how pity is the people who are talking about this, they are charging them the most and trying to rob them the most. What world is trying to look? They want to bring down this target to 50 pounds, so around 5%. And what cash model have delivered is to make them at zero. So what does it say here? It's Bitcoin system? Yeah. We use, internally we use, we don't just use Bitcoin, we use all the cryptocurrencies backed by blockchain. So what our model does, it's very easy to use it. You don't need to know anything about Bitcoin, you don't need to do anything with the technology. You want to send some cash. Imagine you are in US, you want to send 100 pounds, $100. You receive a passcode which you have to give to a Bitcoin seller. He receives your cash. At the same time, in India or the other part of the world, your family receives the cash with the other passcode. So it's the game of two passcodes, no technology, no Bitcoin, no blockchain, no tech stuff is involved. But still your money moved without fee, at zero fee. But these people want some cash, right? They would need a commission. Yeah, but they don't charge this commission to our users. That's the whole game of the story. Who did charge? No, they don't have to charge anyone. This is, there was a potential which was already left in the market and nobody was utilizing it. I give you a live example of what happened a few days ago in India. The government of India decided to ban 88% cash in the country and to inject, to ban 88% of the cash in the country. Ban it? Yeah, and to release a new currency. So they taken all the old currency and they want to... In India? Yeah, in India. That's a lot of cash. It is a lot of cash. And you know what happened? The Bitcoin price shoots to $1,000 US. While at the same time in America or in US or in any high-liquid market, the Bitcoin price was $750. Now you have a $250 difference between these two markets. Now imagine you are in US and you want to send $1,000. So you give this cash to one of the guys in US who is a seller of Bitcoin who want to sell his bitcoins. But the pity is that if he sells this coin in US, nobody is going to give them more than $750 because that's the price. But if there is a system which enables him to sell this bitcoins through India, he can get make $250. At the same time, there was so much scarcity of Bitcoin in India that the people are not able to buy bitcoins even at $1,000 price. But if we able to connect these two buyers and sellers in a way that these can do a business together, the money moves free because this chap here in US will receive the $1,000. This guy here will give equivalent of $1,000 to our Indian friend. And they make profit the last $250 which was not utilized by anyone. So it's like a win-win model for cash-sender and cryptocurrency traders. So you are a layer that uses Bitcoin but you don't the customer don't need to know. Customer doesn't never know that what is the business of these guys. But there's no risk? There is no risk because that's the whole technology is about. How is there no risk? Because there's a lot of Bitcoin wallets and stuff like that. They just took all the money from the customers. They said it was hacked. Yes. Is this not possible with yours? No, because we are decentralized. We are peer to peer. Most of the things which get hacked are centralized. So you give attackers a honeypot where attacker can do a target. But now we have a decentralized everything. So each transaction have his own wallet which is decentralized. So if attacker able to attack a wallet and even if it's able to suppose hack one transaction, if he able to hack one transaction, he's able to get $1,000. What if they hack Kasha? That's the whole game. Kasha is not a centralized system. Kasha is decentralized system. So every transaction is happening between the traders, not inside the Kasha. So Kasha is just a messaging marketplace. So you imagine it's something like and the Kasha is built on the blockchain platform. So it's completely decentralized. It's transactions. So each transactions happen independently from different escrow accounts. So there is no one central escrow, but it's decentralized within the network. So you need to hack to if you want to get down Kasha, you need to get down entire blockchain network. So it's not about hacking application. It's like if you want to hack Amazon, but you can't able to hack Amazon, you need to hack entire internet. Now you can understand that hacking Kasha is like hacking the entire internet. So are you the founder? Yes, I'm the founder and I built this algorithm and IP. So which which works? We are based in London in level 39. It's a we started this project like this idea came in 2013 to my mind when I paid a huge fee to one of these guys, you see, Western Union, right? Yeah, I use myself. These guys, they took 1000 for me. Yeah, you know, I use this Western Union because I lost my wallet. And these guys charged me 20 you call your mom and say please send me my friend. I call my friend and I say guys, I'm in Amsterdam and I lost my wallet. Please send me some cash. And these and these guys charged me around 10 to 15% that day. You know, it's like so pity. And they just it's Euro to Euro, even it's not like big international remittance. It's just local transaction. I got my wallet last week. I had to find the guy and my Airbnb asking, can I send you some PayPal? Give me some cash. It's very strange feeling. Yeah, but now Paul took 4.4% imagine. So and then still you didn't get cash in your hand. You received cash in your PayPal and then these guys when he will take out the bank in a bank account, you need to pay 7% 7% percent what we are talking about. That's using a global average is 78. So it's around 7.8% is a global average. They wanted to bring down to 15. What cash is really delivering in present zero zero the disruption we are bringing into the society. Okay, that's what needs to be. Yeah, because it needs to be zero. But how many people are here talking about zero only you? Yeah, I think only me right now. Only you people will. Yeah, people only only me because if you see them, the model, the charts that you guys are very angry with you. Yeah, obviously, but no, these guys will never be angry. You know, why why they should be angry? Because we are building a model on a blockchain and we are a startup. These guys have such a huge network. I don't say a network as you see the super racket. You see, this is the chart presented by World Bank claiming the the remittance super racket, super racket, super racket, they are called. But what they're not afraid of anything because they have a volume of trillion dollars. And even as a startup, we able to do maybe two billion in a year. Oh, you have two million already? I'm joking. Yeah, we already we already moved two million US dollar in fast. Yeah. So how long you've been running? No, we just started actually, we did this two million without making a company. It adds a proof of concept we did. And what we did, we did we made a very simple protocol, a very simple looking website MVP. And we allowed people to start trading. And if you see our 90 day stats, let me get this here we have, you see, what happened that we suddenly start seeing that in 90 days, we can be our user base close to 1000 different cities, we covered 80 countries, had 7000 traders ready to give and take cash and all peer to peer. And this was our test website. So you can still go on this side. Yeah, but now we merge this all into the cashier. So this the cashier never existed when we are doing this trials. So this was all anonymous, like an anonymous peer to peer system. And people have believed in us and they have moved one million US dollar in first 90 days. So but it needs to be safe, secure, trusted, trusted, people can trust you. That's that when it comes to the traders, they don't have a problem because the traders are Bitcoin trader or cryptocurrency trader, they are advanced user, they understand the security doesn't lies in the cashier but lies in the network. So it's something which is unbelievable, you need if you want to hack right now, if imagine I give you a case that how much power you need to hack blockchain. If you want to hack a blockchain, say four hours ago, you need to have hexa tree, no terabyte of power, which even doesn't exist in the world. And if anyhow, you're able to manage this computing power, you're able, you are able to not corrupt the entire blockchain, but maybe two hours ago, the talk which we are doing, maybe it is possible to corrupt this talk, but not what happened in morning. Are you sure about that? That's proven by the scientists. Yeah, we can do this. Yeah, you can do Google that if the power involved in the blockchain and you see the all the computing power currently exist in the blockchain. Blockchain is real technology. Blockchain is the real technology. No. Blockchain is a real technology and declared by World Economic Forum as top 10 latest invention in the world after internet. Yeah, but nobody knows strange name guy, Japanese kind of name, what's the name? But just the guy who was the name of the we are talking about. Yeah, some people thought it was one guy, and it's another one. Nobody knows, but it works. Tell me, you know who invented internet, like average people know who invented internet? I know the web guys. No, no, the question is, does the average consumer using Facebook, Amazon does who invented internet? Does we know who invented geometry? It doesn't matter what matter is the technology and the application of the technology. If you ask people, did you use artificial intelligence? Average people don't understand what you are talking, but if you ask them, did you use Google? Yes, they do. So the power of technology doesn't belong in the technology in itself. It belongs in the application of the technology and the usefulness of technology. So I don't hear people know about Satoshi Mugakamoto and who care? Nobody cares. Nobody care. You don't care. I don't care about this. This is going to be real. But this is going to be real. And this is powered by cash transfer. Yeah, but there's lots of people in India. The idea, I guess the government has is they want to control the taxes and stuff. People have not paying taxes and they want to escape that using, are they trying to escape? Is it a way to escape paying taxes? See, in fact, we are bringing right now if we see how this network is organized. Either you use Western Union, Money, Gram, Ria or other expensive or Havana networks, which is uncontrolled, unregulized, unregulated and no traceable. While now we are giving these people that why you have to use any illegal source when we have something free for you in a complete legal way, completely proven model. So in this way, even government can come to us and say, guys, let us know who are the people transferring cash. We want to tax them. Okay, here is the record. At least we have all the digital way. You have the transactions? We have all the transactions records at least. So you don't recommend this for people who want to hide money? No, no, we don't recommend it because we can use another startup, right? Use whatever you want to use because our market right now is 240 billion a year, which is made by real white money, people living abroad and sending money home. Remittance. Not, I'm talking about remittance just because remittance is more than 600 billion. So if you heard a smile this morning, it's it's growing fast, it's growing an exponential rate, but we are talking, we are in a complete, you know, a part of remittance, which is cash to cash, which only controlled by Western Union and Moneygram kind of network. So we are not targeting any of these startups, so don't worry about them. We are not targeting bank, we are not targeting PayPal, we are not targeting currency or transfer wise. These are our competitors. So you see. So what are you doing here at the TechCrunchestRap? No, we just came to come into the public because we started our company in July, so we are like very, very new. So now we need to go out and tell people that guys, there is something exist in real which can help you to transfer your cash free. And maybe a company like Google should think this is a good idea? Yeah. No, we already have a lot of industry. The reason to come to London was to be, to sit in the central place where most of the migrants are there. So once you control London, you are directly indirectly helping most of the countries. This amazing Uber driver, he told me, is working like crazy to send money to his family in Afghanistan. Do I send you a secret? How he's losing a lot of commission? It's a little bit, you know, what I, this, this model, what I hate about that most of the people sitting and they claim that they want to help the whom? They want to help Africa. You know, you see a lot of news help Africa, donate Africa, they need some help. And how pity is that you say all those things and still your companies charge most of them to Africans. If you are so generous to help, why don't you just make them not less even equal to the world average? Free. Oh, no, no, no, don't do it free. I'm not, I know the, I know, I know these guys, they, they are here to make money. Okay, I accept this. The police say there's a lot of risk here. Okay, so you, so you want to help or not? Give me the answer. So if you want to really help, you help. You don't worry about a scammer or getting robbed or whatever. You, the Western Union is making unbelievable profit in Africa and you say that you are worried about a scam then just don't do it. No, who asked you to do it? So how do you make money? We make money. So as we say that in a different market, blockchain technologies at different cryptocurrencies have a different price. So what we do, we match people, the cash sender with a seller and receiver with the buyer. Now because there is a price gap difference between the cryptocurrency is sold. So the one bitcoin cost here 750 while here 1000. So imagine the, in London this guy is ready to, to give one bitcoin to receive 500 pounds. Okay, in India there is a guy who is ready to give 45,000 INR for say half a bitcoin. Now when you match these guys the money moved completely free but here you bought one and in the other end you sold 0.5. So the cashier system in between made 0.5 profit. Imagine. So this was, nobody was tapped because nobody know that how to do this. Now it's not, generally the price gap between high liquid and low liquid market is around 5%. Guys, no forget about this. If it was so easy to use, bitcoin was everywhere. I am a bitcoin lover because I know it empowers people to, to, to, to have control of their own money. Not to be governed by anyone, any bank which decided to block your bank account, freeze your bank account, decided to whom you can pay, whom you don't pay. You know why people love cash, why I love cash and why everyone love cash? Because if I want to buy you something, I pay you. I don't pay you all these 500 different big institutions who invited themselves between me and you. Who gave right to a visa to process a payment when I'm buying from you? You are selling, you are the manufacturer, I was the payment company, I was the, I was the seller and you are a buyer. I wanted something, we had a business. But then these all the institutions invited themselves. You didn't ask them, I didn't ask them. I wanted to do the business with you. But now the system is made in a way that it becomes so, I say cumbersome that you can't do business without them. But bitcoin is now enabling people to do this between me and you. A six-year-old, a 13-year-old boy can now download a bitcoin wallet and become a CEO of his own bank which is not controlled by anyone. I know it sounds scary, but not to you and me, to those who controls the power and don't want to lose their position. All these big guys, I don't know how to call them, but they are here. I'm not many of them. Yeah. The city, have you been walking around, you talk with the banks? Don't worry. Did you work in a bank before? We are based in level 39. It's the center of, if you go to Canary Wharf. Yeah. The tallest building is this building and we are on top of this building and all the banks look still tiny from here. So you are on the top of the London city? Yes. Surrounded by Bank of America, City Bank, JP Morgan, all the place. So I'm not afraid of anyone. I'm afraid of Brexit. I will be happy when all the banks leave the world. You can keep Canary Wharf? Yeah. For our cash-ash? Yeah. Okay, so we are here for investors. No, we are obviously looking for partners, investors, anyone who want to contribute into the society, but at the same time build money. We are not coming with a model to burn cash, but to model which really make money and we have proved this by in our just 90 days without an unregistering company. Yeah, and do you have competitors saying the same thing? No, till now, luckily till now we don't have. We have some competitors here, ABRA, which cleans, it's very minimum fee, but the secret is that you don't pay fee to ABRA, but then you pay fee when you receive your cash to their partners. So it's not changing a lot for a consumer, it's just instead of paying to Western Union, Western Union say, oh now we don't charge you any fee. You know what, when your friend receives the money, on the other end, our partner who gives the cash will charge some fee. What changes for the consumer? Come on. You are just making fun of him. If your system asks for $100 to be received, very easy. That's it. No tricks, no exchange rate, worries, everything is you give 100, you receive 100. Very simple.