 Roedd y gwybodaeth o adrwyl iawn ar gyfer y Cymru a'r apc yw'r Cyngor yn iawn i'r Cyngor Brynodd Cyngor yn ymgyrchol i'r cyfrifol ar gyfer y ddechrau Cymru, sy'n byw i'r fflexio'r Cymru. Yn y gallai ddiwedd yn gofnir y Cyfrifol, Nassir Elrifai'r youfwyr yn ymgyrchol i'r cyfrifol i'r cyfrifol i'r cyfrifol i'r cyfrifol i'r Cyfrifol i'r cyfrifol i'r Cyfrifol Yn ymdegwch, Ynryd, yng Nghymru yn ystod o'r ffordd o'r cyd-dwylliant yma yw'r cyd-dwylliant yn ymdegwch. Mae hynny'n gweithio'r cyfnod o'r cyd-dwylliant yw'r cyd-dwylliant yw'r cyd-dwylliant. Mae'n ddiweddio'n gweithio am ymdegwch, yw Peter Isiler, y Prif Weinidog, yng Nghymru Cymru yn Ynryd. Yn mynd i'r ffordd, fried i'n ffordd am yng Nghymru. Yn ffordd, ar ffordd y cyd-dwylliant yw'r cyd-dwylliant yw'r cyd-dwylliant yn ymdegwch. Mae yw Peter Isiler fyddi. Yn ymddangos am frasgau dymian, rhaid? A'i bod yn ffordd rhai o'r cyd-dwylliant, mae'r cyd-dwylliant yw'r cyd-dwylliant yw'r cyd-dwylliant. Mae'r cyd-dwylliant yw'r cyd-dwylliant yw'r cyd-dwylliant yw'r cyd-dwylliant? dweud y bydd mewn ffordd unedol. Dwi'n ffril, y bwyd yna, re'i angen iawn i'rえてilion ar gweithio'r ffordd. Mae'n bwysig o bwysigio'r rhai yng Nghymru, i ddwy o fardderaf o'r 1000 y custody yn ymgyrch. Y cyffredin yw ymgyrch o'ch dweud hynny, lle'n ymgwrs peol yna. Mae ydych yn mynd i gilydd i'n agorffedd y gallon nhw a bwysig i'n gwneud ymgyrch cyfnogi, dy pertilio gyda Unedig, y hen nid yn y cadwion, na iddynt gwybod y Prifysgol Cymru o'r ddyliadau ac a'r pethau yn y cerdynas yng ngwynhau ynians i gyda unig, a'i ddim i ddim i'n deall i'n rhoi i gyd yn y derbyn amlarwg. Felly yw bod eitio chi yn gallu'n ddwylgaru bydd yn gyda'r ffyrdd sydd ychydig yn hynnen cyfnod ac ym hi. Hefyd rydyn ni wedi'n sefydlu sydd ychydig ychydig sydd. Ond efallai eich hwn o'r waff, rydyn ni i fudawsod o'r aeck, rydyn ni i'n meddwl nad oedol a'r asy o'r hanedau, rydyn ni i fudawsod o'r aeck. Ac ymwneud y fawr tyfnol ar adrodd i ddiffrwysydd rydyn ni oedol i'l ystarcho. Ond ydych chi'n defnyddio a gennyn i'r llifadau o'r un o'r oedol o'r ysgrifwysydd ar ddwellion. Felly dyna'r cyffredin suráol mewn cynhyrchu a bihafiddio ar y ddeudio cynnu gêmio. A bydd efallai'r cyffredin llawer o'r ddeudio ar y cyffredin o'r ddurdod ar gyfer ymu'r cyffredin ar y pryd a par 가격au? Felly a'r ddim yn y rhan oedd y dynol yn ym Piech er mwyn i'r ddeudio a'r ddurdod yn cyffredin sy'n perthyn nhw. Ond y cwrdd iddyn nhw hynny'n hyd yn gymryd yn sffol huwn. gyda'u gyda'r Government, mae'n gwybod y gallwn gwybod yn y cyfnod o'i, a yn cyd-cyfails cyd-cyflock yn y cyfnod ddysgwysig, ond fy nid yn dweithio dy fwrdd am y ddechrau. Yn gyfnod dyfod y Prif Weinidiau, pan rhai o'r drwy flynyddoedd eich sifol o'r trefpath oherwydd, ond mae'n amser ffawr yn ddigonio yn wneud, ond mae'n amser bwysig, Clym Gweithrach yn y fawr o'r boedd yn ei wneud, Ac ydyMynd wedi bod oherwydd ydy roedden ni yw hwn arbell. Beth oherwydd rydych chi'n gweithio gynhyrchu yn bach i Gwlad Gwlwyr mewn Gwlad Gwlad, dyma can Lywodraeth o dw i gynyddoedd Cyfrwyng Mysgol, a dwi'n gweithio sut wedi gwneud lle gwlad. So fynd i'w ddwy'r Llywodraeth oedd wedi gwneud. Ac fyddech chi'n fwylawn i'w dynnu'n gweithio hynny sydd hi ddigon i gyd wedi digon i'r un Nicol Arddur yma i chi wedi eu gwneud. Wel, bobl fyddwch yn gwneud o'r Gwfnir Elriffau, ond yw'n gofyn o'r swyddo yn gwybod cyfrifio? Ond yna'n gwybod y Pgfrafff yn sefydliad, ac rydyn ni'n gyntaf o'r cyfrifio cyfrifio cyfrifio cyfrifio neu roedd o'r Gofynir Cydynus. The PGF is saying that they've been following, you know, the events that have been unfolding between the NLC and the Kaduna State Government and that they have deep concerns. They're saying it's not time for the labour to flex muscles, being that there's a loss on Nigeria's place and I know that everybody who lives in Nigeria understands what we're facing. But the price of the worker is also part of the problem that Nigeria is facing. So what does labour need to do right now? Because they're saying that you need to come to the table and negotiate. What's there no negotiation before you guys decided that you were going to hit the streets and protest? I think what they are trying to do is, you are calling labourers to come to the table. Who's making the call? So normally if you want to come to the table we say okay let us do status quo and everybody go back to where you were before. So the government will say okay fine the 4000 people go back to work and then the Nigeria Labour Congress will not come to the table and then they will start having that conversation. If they don't do that, what is the PGF going to say? Interesting. So the governors are saying that both the APC and the NLC will resolve issues. So they're saying the government of El Rufai will resolve issues and all the outstanding problems that are there. Could they maybe be speaking for Mr El Rufai here because like I said he's a man that hardly shifts grounds and it seems like his decision is final even though there's always room for these conversations to be had. But then there are certain pondys who have said that maybe Labour is looking for something more than just the fact that these people have been fired. And then that what if all it takes is just to have that conversation because El Rufai doesn't want to be seen as the first person to break. If you say you want Nigeria Labour Congress to come back to the table. And already the government have announced that NLCs to no grade level 14, they will all be sad. How is it to make it that came out today? So if you are talking about that, the government is backing down. The government is still talking as if we are in a war. So if the government as of today is firing the NLC. Which means that the government is not shifting position. So what do you want Nigeria Labour Congress and the Trade Union Congress to come and sit down and discuss. So the PGF should of course call one of their own and say okay fine, we want to alleviate. And in the process of alleviation then let everybody go back to where things were before. And one of the things we also know is that these governments are more like it. Whether you like it or not, the NLC is not doing what they are supposed to do in Cardona. You can assure you that Cardona was just a testing ground. Several states are also waiting to lay off workers. So these two are sending messages to other governments to say this is what Labour movement is also planning. I want to push you now. I know that you are a former TUC Chairman but let's be realistic for a second. And this is not the first time the idea of dropping or laying off workers has come to the fore. I remember I think former E-Mol State Governor at the time, Russell Coulter, had spoken before he became the Governor of E-Mol State. Did say that the civil service was hemorrhaging and that it was time to look for ways to shed the weight if government must be able to save more money because there are so many, allegedly, ghost workers. There are many people who are working in the civil service who need not be there. There are many redundant offices and roles that should be terminated. And so yes, if this be the case and then government is trying to take off that weight in order to reduce the hemorrhaging, would it not be better that you get some form of package other than just be laid off and then you just keep dragging back and forth? I'm just thinking out loud here. If the government is hemorrhaging, they are unable to pay you. I know states that are still unable to pay the minimum wage. Talk less about paying anything else. So wouldn't that be a better idea? I mean, I'm just asking, wouldn't it be a better idea to work smart than to just keep working and hemorrhaging and then more and more people are looking for jobs. But then, of course, there are people who have jobs but are not doing that job. So what is Labour doing in its place to make sure that people are really doing their jobs and do really deserve their pay? If anybody is not doing these jobs, the person should be fired. But you and I know that civil service in Nigeria is massive and it's difficult to actually play follow-up. I have worked in the civil service. I have seen this happen many times. Many people don't have jobs. They just come to work and sign the time book and they have done due diligence if we're being truthful to each other. What you're talking about is the symptom. Your attention now is on the symptom, not on the causes. Now, who employs those civil servants? Once you have a new job law, a new commissioner, he breaks his brothers, he breaks his sisters, he breaks his cousins. It's not the labour unions that are doing that. What you say the civil service is to be bloated. It's simply the governors, the commissioners, and those who are digits of the various agencies of the state that are responsible for that. That's one. Number two, you are talking about ghost workers. That is an insult. You work for TV Plus TV. Do you hear about ghost workers in Plus TV? It's simple technology. These guys don't want technology to work, even the governors and everybody you are talking about. They don't want to encourage technology. Technology would kill corruption. But we don't want technology. So are you blaming the government for the problems that the civil service is experiencing right now? You're saying that the same government that wants to lay off staff is the reason why staff are not doing their jobs. That's the information that I have. I will tell you the last recruitment that we have done in various agencies. They are all brothers and sisters of those in power. So tomorrow, five years from now, somebody is going to call, somebody will be in power again, telling us that the civil service is about bloated. Meanwhile, they are the course. So when you are looking at a lot of these, every time we are always looking at the symptoms, we are not looking at the courses. So the courses here is that if you want to employ someone in the civil service, let me give an example of the British civil service. They know the capacity. They know where they are lacking. They have a three-year plan. That in three years' time, four years' time, this is the manpower that will be required in the civil service. And the way you have it, a publication is made to that effect. And you know where recruitment will be done. In Nigeria, recruitment is done every day. And that recruitment is based on man-no-man, brother of the governor, causes of the governor, brother of the commissioner. And the British are the presidents everywhere. So when the civil service becomes bloated, and somebody comes and said, oh, fine, you need to reduce civil service. Now, go and investigate how many SSAs do you have in Kaduna? How many SSAs do you have in Imog, when Roger Socorotiaw was governor? So this political office holder are responsible for the civil service being bloated. Another aspect we also need to look at is who sat down, did the governor invite the unions and look at the templates for laying off. It wasn't done. The ILO Convention talks about track attack, which is government, employees and employer sitting down to agree. I worked in an oil firm for many years, private sector. It's only when I became TUC president and I found out that they don't keep agreement and governance and government are the major people who don't respect agreement. Now you are laying off people. Have you prepared package for them? Where is the package for them to take home? I'll give an example of myself. I was a teenager. My own father was laid off. After almost 30 years in service, for nine months, he wasn't paid. Go to the streets from Abia to Zaffara. Personnels are not getting their money. Why? Is it goes to workers that are responsible for that? So please, when these governors come to tell us that civil service is over bloated, the whole thing is emerging, tell them to bring out the list. Your workers are not supposed to be secret. These are public servants. We are supposed to question them. What governments are doing in Nigeria today is that they now consider them to be emperors. Governments are supposed to save the people and not the people who are being their servants. So what does Labour want now? This cannot keep going on. Of course, Labour is not going to stand down. Neither is the governor L5. So what does Labour need now going forward because there has to be a way to resolve this problem? Yes, the APC governors have said, come to the negotiating table. That's for the NLC and stop flexing muscles. But what do you want as a people right now going forward? Because again, I ask, if the government decides that they're going to go through due process and do what the book says, in other words, they're going to prepare the packages and then come to Labour and have a trapeitide agreement and say, well, we want to drop people. Is Labour going to sit back and say, well, let's drop people. Let's see who we can drop. Is that going to be an easy choice for Labour to make? Let me tell you, it will be an easy choice. I'm coming from where I'm coming from. My background is that in the petroleum sector or in the oil industry, layoffs are being done regularly. I will tell you that regularly. But the unions there have a template for layoff. So what the management does is, okay, fine. The price of crude has tank is going for less. We don't think we can operate at this level and we need to lay off people. And then they bring out the redundancy package. And everybody looks at the redundancy package. Sometimes you will see somebody who says, okay, I think I want to go. People just volunteer and they want to go collect their package and they exit. But what you have is that government doesn't even have package for the workers. So government will wake up and do what they are doing. These workers are seeing what is happening to pensioners. So what you have is that government in our country have lost credibility. They've lost the respect of the workers and the workers can trust them. That's what is playing out here. And if that is what is playing out, Labour will always be ready to go to the table. But what are you bringing to the table for them to sit with you for? And if the government are not listening, Labour will turn that cardinal strike to a national strike. That is where it's going. And you can divide Labour in every other means. But you can't divide Labour when it comes to the issue of the losing members or their members losing jobs, not in accordance with due process. Well, we can just hope that there will be a common ground in a few days and Labour will be back on the table with Governor El Rifi. Hopefully he also will shift ground. Thank you. He is the former trade union congress chairman. Thank you very much for speaking with us. Thank you for having me. All right. Well, that's our program for tonight. Thank you for staying with us. But before we go, let's hear what Nigerians have to say about the rift between the NLC and the Kaduna State Government. We'll be right back. The NLC she will shelled the assault of telling workers to go and strike in Kaduna. And also about the no paying and other TUC that are also mobilising. This is not the best time because the economy, the way the economy is now, it will not benefit both the government and even the workers. And I will also genuinely appeal to Governor El Rifi that there is always a lot of option on the table to look into rather than laying people off. I think the federal government needs to step in here because truly, if he doesn't have the funds, there's nothing he can do to pay those people. So the federal government needs to step in. There should be actually a kind of dialogue between the NLC and the state government and even the federal, if they need to be supported, they'll be supported and then they will try to get new ways to generate some of their own revenues. It will also help them. What they should do is source means. They should source other means where they can get from. They have different resources, you know, revenue drive. They should get a revenue drive. It's not talking people that is the solution. They should get means of, you know, getting revenues to sustain the population. Where there are drains, a lot of things in this country, all our politicians know what is going on. Instead of them to do a better something for the citizens of this country, they won't do it. They have their own personal interests. That's why they're doing everything like this. That's why the country was going up and down. That's why the country cannot move forward. That's what I believe. Well, thank you all for being part of the show and the conversation today. I hope you enjoyed it. My name is Mary Annacol. Thank you for watching. See you tomorrow.