 This is a really great topic and we have a tremendous panel. I'll introduce the first panelist from here and then I'll have a seat and that first panelist is Brittany McCoy. Brittany is the director, the climate analysis and strategies branch and that's in the Office of Transportation and Air Quality at the United States Environmental Protection Agency. Brittany, thanks for joining us today. I'll turn it over to you. Here we go. So thanks for inviting me to be part of this transportation panel discussion. It's really an honor to sit here and talk about accelerating sustainable transportation. From an EPA perspective, I'm going to just kind of highlight three key things to talk about really quickly. Our Clean School Bus program, which I believe my director spoke about last year this time. The U.S. National Blueprint for Transportation Decarbonization Effort and then as well as our Green Vehicle Guide website. So last year we had just opened up the first Clean School Bus funding opportunity under the Bipod as an infrastructure law and at the time we received about 2,000 applications requesting about four billion dollars but we only had funding for one billion. We're doing one billion a year so for over 12,000 buses. So ultimately we selected about 400 applicants in that process and more than 2,400 buses, many which are electric but also we have a number of propane as well as CNG buses in that first funding period. Many of the recipients of that funding, what I want to highlight, it was their first time receiving an electric bus. So navigating the charging infrastructure installation was quite difficult. So we worked closely with the Department of Energy and Transportation and Joint Office to really help them navigate that with technical assistance, answering questions, whether also hosting webinars about fleet analysis, route planning and just how to navigate infrastructure installation. So we'll continue to advance and revise that program design based on lessons, learns, feedback and welcome suggestions to our Clean School Bus program through our mailbox which is at CleanSchoolBus at EPA.gov. The second thing I want to highlight which kind of speaks to this as well is that our president has really always been about in his early days in office about climate change being a major priority. And so in January of 2022 he issued an executive order calling for this whole of government approach to address climate change and kind of put the US on this path for achieving net zero emissions by 2050. And so that whole of government approach really starts with the federal government being role models to industry but also you know within our own cells. So in 2022, later that year in September, EPA, Department of Transportation, Department of Energy as well as the Housing and Urban Development, we signed an MOU to kind of formalize this commitment basically to work together to ensure that the nation's transportation clean technology transition is affordable equitable and kind of keeps moving forward. So then earlier this year in January of 2023, we published the US National Blueprint for Transportation Decarbonization and really that blueprint really envisions this kind of future mobility system that is clean, safe, secure, accessible, affordable, equitable and provides decarbonized transportation options for people and goods. It kind of starts with this thinking more broadly about how and why we move people, how we move goods and it continues across all aspects of the transportation system. One thing I want to highlight with three key strategies from that blueprint. We talk about convenient, which is the first one, efficient, second and then third is clean. And that just speaks about convenient. How do we improve community design and land use planning? Hence why we have HUD involved in this effort. Efficient. How do we increase options to travel and to travel more efficiently? And then clean, which EPA has done fairly well with, is how do we transition and think about cleaner technologies including zero emission techno vehicles as well as fuels. So we are currently working to kind of stay to set the stage for initiating actions that enable convenient, equitable, zero carbon based transportation system by kind of setting these ambitious goals and achievable regulatory emission targets, hence by leveraging bill and the Inflation Reduction Act investments as well. And so the last thing I want to highlight is while EV investment is important, regulatory actions, EPA is a regulatory agency, is important, it's really going to require just a little bit more than just putting EVs on the road and installing stations to be successful. Effective communication as well as consumer education is essential to that. And we've done that in a number of ways. We have our automotive, annual automotive trends report, which is basically an industry benchmark for how we think about vehicle trends, fuel economy trends in the automotive industry that relies on nearly 50 years of EPA test data. We also have our green vehicle guide, which was launched in 2001, that basically provides the opportunity to serve as a place for consumers to get accurate, accessible information on EVs, fuel economy and transportation decarbonization to name a few. So we have things like you can learn how to charge your electric vehicle. You have a comparison tool to look at comparing gasoline vehicles to electric vehicles. We revamp how we talk about hydrogen and transportation. And then recently our EV myths page to kind of address miscommunication of EVs is our most viewed site, which consistently has been making its rounds on social media and blogs and articles as well. So we've been proactive in being intentional and trying to like communicate to the general public information that may not may be common for us in the industry we work in, but doesn't translate necessarily to the everyday user. So I'll kind of end with that as my initial talking points. Thanks then. That's great. That's a great place to start. Thank you so much. Our second panelist is Genevieve Cullen. Genevieve is the president of the Electric Drive Transportation Association. Genevieve, always a delight to see you. Take it away. Successfully managed. Now I see the light. I work in technology. Good afternoon. I'm Genevieve Cullen. As as Daniel said, I'm the president of the Electric Drive Transportation Association. We are a cross industry trade association representing the value chain of electric transportation. And by electric transportation, I mean anything in which electricity moves the wheels. So it's it's it's battery electric, it's hybrid, it's plug in hybrid and its fuel cells. My members include vehicle manufacturers of all sizes, electric utilities, component and materials suppliers as well as infrastructure developers. So we are together a gathering and advocating a collective vision for building the EV ecosystem. And as as Brittany pointed out, it's more than just putting cars on the road. We have to build a whole ecosystem. And and while we're doing that, the the other benefits are building US competitiveness in a global race to lead in this technology in this marketplace. We're creating jobs, we're reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and we're creating clean and cheaper transportation options for for families, businesses and communities. And so because it's late in the afternoon, and you've been listening to a lot of speakers, I'm just gonna just day lose you with a whole bunch of numbers for a minute. So hang on, it'll be over. I think most of you are aware of some of these projections, but it's just important to know, because a lot of people talk about inflection point and a couple of factors useful to know. So Bloomberg New Energy Finance projects that EV sales will increase from 10.5 million last year to 27 million in 2026. And the the EV share of new global new passenger vehicle sales projected to rise from 14 percent in 2022 to 30% in 2026. In the United States, those numbers are growing pretty fast as well. So there are 3.8 million, maybe a little bit more since they tallied the monthly numbers. Vehicles sold since 2010. And in May of this year, there are 113 and change plug-in vehicles were sold. And that's 68% increase over May of last year. And so the US sales are supposed to are expected to grow from 7.6% of passenger vehicles in 2022 to 20% by 2026. It's a big jump. At the same time, we have to be building out infrastructure. According to Department of Energy, there's currently 64,000 public stations in operation. And Tesla has, you might have read about this, has committed to making at least 3,500 of its supercharger stations and 4,000 level two charging stations charging docks available to all EV drivers by the end of next year. Across the US supply chain, there are investments that are a total of more than 210 billion since 2021. Okay, you take a deep breath. That's all the numbers for now. And what this, what this points to is a growing place in the EV market. It speaks to competitiveness and our climate goals, but it also means a lot just for consumers. On the market side, it's really important to note that there are 87 models of plug-in or electric drive vehicles available today. That'll be well over 100 by 2027. And it's cheaper. It's cleaner. It's, I would also point out cheaper to maintain as well as to drive. And it's, in addition to the benefits for consumers, obviously, we know that there are national security benefits as been talked about. All of these, all of these efforts, this market growth is reinforced by historic and existing programs, IRA, BIL, all our old favorites and CMAC and clean cities. But we have a lot of work to do together coordination across industry with government at every level. There's there's lots to do because we are trying to scale the market and mature the market at the same time. So there are challenges. And I am happy to be here today and answer your questions. Thank you, Genevieve. Next, we'll hear from Chris Bliley. Chris is Senior Vice President of Regulatory Affairs at Growth Energy. Thanks, Dan. It sounds like I'm on. For those who don't know, Growth Energy, we are the world's and nation's largest association of biofuel producers. We represent 10 and a half percent of the gasoline supply today is is made with ethanol. And, you know, we are available for use for about 260 million vehicles on the road today. As as Genevieve said, there's a lot a ton of growth in the EV market. But for decades to come, regardless of how aggressive we get an electrification, we will need sustainable solutions for legacy combustion vehicles. And we believe biofuels are a readymade solution. As I said, we're 10 and a half percent of the liquid fuel supply today. With a simple switch to a 15% ethanol blend, we can drop greenhouse gas emissions by 40 million tons, the equivalent of taking 10 million cars off the road just like that. It's a fuel that 16 cents less per gallon or it was last summer and some locations a deeper savings than that. Significant greenhouse gas emissions, which I mentioned as well as criteria pollutants. In fact, Brittany mentioned a lot of ambition towards zero emission vehicles and fuels. I think that's an important notification because fuels are going to be an important component for the legacy fleet and for even the additional internal combustion engines that will continue to be built. That is already made. E15 is a blend that's available today. 3,200 locations. As we look towards the future, alongside of electrification, vehicle manufacturers can also take advantage of ethanol's high octane properties, a high octane mid-level ethanol blend. We have pushed EPA on moving octane higher for similar reasons. It's a cleaner fuel. It helps drive engine efficiency and helps achieve those decarbonization goals. That's looking out more towards the future. Additionally, and I think what is probably exciting to many in the audience and exciting to our members, again, a lot of push towards electrification in the on-road fleet. How do you decarbonize some of these harder to electrify sectors? Aviation, marine, biofuels are a solution there as well. Two of our members have announced commitments to make what would be 20% of the president's grand challenge for sustainable aviation fuel. That's over a billion gallons of sustainable aviation fuel. But importantly, and I think everybody has talked about it, you need proper implementation of policies on the table. We need a strong and growing renewable fuel standard that continues to drive investment in biofuels and sustainable biofuels. We also need proper implementation of their inflation reduction act. There's a lot of guidance out there yet to be determined on sustainable aviation credits on clean fuel production credits. Our members are making capital intensive investments, billions of dollars of investments that they can't really make until there's clarity in those provisions. So it's really important that those things get done. You know, we are available and scalable to meet some of these challenges in the road ahead. Pardon the bad pun, both for the on-road fleet and these hard to electrify sectors. And I think there's a lot of excitement in our industry. We know that we can be used and really take advantage of the properties of a fuel that we make here in the United States, lower in carbon emissions, lower in criteria, pollutant emissions, and can be used in vehicles today, as well as vehicles, on-road vehicles of tomorrow, and as well as aviation and marine. And with that, I will wrap there. Thanks, Chris. There's never a need to apologize for puns on any ESI panel as long as I'm around. Maybe we'll have a pun off later. That brings us to Art Gazetti. Art is Vice President, Mobility Initiatives and Public Affairs at the American Public Transportation Association. Take it away, Art. Thank you, Daniel. And I'm glad we're ending the day with this connection between transportation policy, environmental, and energy policy all linked together. I'm here to talk about public transportation as a central and fundamental strategy at my organization after the American Public Transportation Association is the National Association of Transit Systems. We've been doing that since 1882. A lot of longevity and transitions along the way. So we think we can face this current transition with Glee. And I say that enthusiastically. The president has challenged us. Reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 50% by 2030. That's a heavy lift to make. But fortunately, and with transportation sector being the leading emitter now, so it's the place we need to look to for the for the most improvements. Fortunately, we've had some recent tools that we can put to work. The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act provides a level of investment that can help make a significant difference, at least address transportation policy, make changes in it and make changes in the priorities and the way we invest and the communities that build around our systems. Also, the Inflation Reduction Act sends a market signal that the future is heading towards a clean energy economy. Now, the transit systems around the country, while we deem ourselves to be inherently sustainable, we also practice to what we preach to make sure we're adhering to all the practices that improve our climate footprint. In two weeks, we'll have 800 people gathered in Anaheim, California to talk about sustainability and our commitment to it. We have a sustainability commitment program where we make our transit system say we're going to adhere to ABC and D and we work with the Federal Transit Administration on their Sustainable Transit for a Healthy Planet initiative. Now, one thing we need to do if we are going to say change the way people travel and travel but in a more energy efficient way, we have to make the energy efficient alternatives as attractive as can be. We need to make the transit option convenient and attractive and I would say we need to undo decades of transportation policies and land development patterns that have favored automobile travel and for too many Americans they have no choice. So that's the kind of thing we're dealing with as far as the funding. It's a federal state local partnership. The feds have stepped up but we're pressing at the at the state and local level. We have a federal transportation trust fund which is good policy. It gives you the certainty to plan and invest in a multi-year time frame but we need to make sure we hold on hold on to the gains that were made available through the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act put those funds to work to make a difference. Now I'll conclude with a final point I want to make and while we're fully committed to transition to zero emission fleets, it comes with challenges that perhaps some saw and perhaps others did not. Electrified buses have a range issue that means you need more buses to accommodate the same service patterns. We also have worker training needs. We have safety needs. There's battery disposal issues. There's fleet procurement issues. There's a facility retrofit. So it comes with all of those challenges that we're going to address in the coming years but we're up for it. It's something we must do and we'll all be better for it. Fortunately I just saw in CNBC yesterday a very encouraging report that the investments made available through the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act create that certainty that there's funding here for industries to invest. Invest in transportation supply. Invest in the market signal and the market direction towards clean energy. And thank you. Let's go. All right. Thank you so much. Before we get to the moderated discussion I'll just mention a couple quick things. One is that we just published a heavy-duty electric vehicle fact sheet. That's something that's pretty new to our website. It's a couple weeks ago I guess maybe. It's a really great product. All of our fact sheets are two pages or the modern incarnation of our fact sheets are two pages so it's a great resource. We also have one of our most popular resources is sustainable aviation fuel issue brief. It is not two pages. You're going to learn a lot about sustainable aviation fuels if you pick that up. Thanks to Jeff Overton who's one of our policy fellows put a ton of work into that. It's one of the best most popular products we have. I'm going to transition to standing up so we can get into Q&A. If folks in the room have questions please feel free to raise your hand. Someone's wrangling. Oh there it is. George has got one in the back and she's going to be moving the microphone around. I'd like to start with I love this panel and one of the reasons I love this panel is because we're able to bring a diversity of perspectives. Sustainable transportation is it's actually broader than that. It's sustainable mobility in some ways and Brittany I'd love to since we've been a little while since we've heard from you maybe we could start with you and just go down the panel but the challenges of climate change are big and multifaceted. There's room for everyone to offer their contributions and I'd love to hear from each of our panelists about how the work your organization is doing is leveraging the work of the others whether it's the others at the table today or I know that this is we only have four spots the transportation sector is great more diverse than this but how you're leveraging the work that's being done from a you know across the transportation sector. Sure. A lot of our work is thinking looking really connecting with DOT and DOE so and connecting with a lot of the infrastructure. Supply supporting the infrastructure efforts associated with our Clean School Bus program and now hopefully next year our Ports program through IRA through some of that funding. My team in particular we don't necessarily work on the regulatory side of things but I'm familiar with the regulatory aspect of things we support a lot of the research associated with thinking about forward leaning activities so keeping in touch with what's happening in academia we connect with many of the universities across the country who are working on sustainable transportation keeping up to date with what's happening in nonprofit sector and industries. We also have our mobile source see acronyms are interesting in government. MSTRS which is our mobile source technical stern review committee which was assigned to provide EPA with information related to mobile sources so research topics or suggestions of what the agency should be doing they meet once a year or sometimes twice a year this past year we met they met twice a year where they recently provided us with a mobility report which directly influenced how we're going to consider our implementation plan for the national blueprint and so that stern committee consists of folks from industry and this transportation space as well so we try to look at all of our stakeholders and then obviously the general public folks can literally email us whether it be our clean school bus at epa.gov email or our green vehicles at epa.email or if you have a direct contact as well we are obligated to respond to the public as well. Genevieve? Well I think as we all have the previous panel pointed out too that this transition to clean energy and clean mobility is has so many stakeholders so many facets in the silos between power equipment vehicles facilities that those are evolving if not breaking down and EDTA was actually formed to build consensus across these different industry sectors we've been doing it since 1989 I haven't been there since then but we have been working on this finding consensus among competitors and across industry segments and we have to be moved together it's about innovation it's about markets and it's about policy and we need to have a shared vision in each of those areas because you have to evolve the technology you have to expand what's available in the market and how consumers understand it and you have to make a policy landscape that's predictable and consistent and actually is pointed in the right direction. Chris? Before I forget I'm actually a member of the MSTRS committee that Brittany mentioned so we're very much working together with epa and that and I would I'd echo the way she characterizes it is a good opportunity for stakeholders across the board to engage the agency on transportation issues it's not just industry per se it's local governments it's a lot of NGOs that's a very good example as Genevieve said you know I think a lot of us you know are engaged in a lot of different policies many of which are implemented by EPA DOT DOE others and we all bring a different perspective but I think you know ultimately we are all rowing towards decarbonization you know we are not we're in the liquid fuel space but we are not anti-electric vehicle you but you have to have solutions for the existing fleet that you can electrify similarly you know on the transit side we would love for you know transit fleets to use biofuels it is a great solution and so you know there are ways that we are working towards that and again I think we all are supportive in different ways of differing policies but I think we're all rowing in that same direction of how we can achieve those you know whatever the decarbonization goals are it'd be it you know our industry or be at the administration you know yeah I'm going to sort of answer the question in a very almost in a way that's elegant in its simplicity and that's that yes we're here the four of us but it could extend beyond it to the many many transportation organizations that we all have different constituencies but we all speak really to the same message of reduced emissions and an economy rooted in clean energy jobs right we can all rally around that message that's that's really right for the times we've had a couple federal laws passed that embolden us and you know provide resources to us in market signals I'll also say on the governmental partner side and I'll call attention to an effort from the Department of Energy Transportation EPA and HUD US National Blueprint for Transportation Decarbonization and a nice document unveiled within the past year that I know my organization is rallied around and it's a sort of a governmental effort let me mention them again Department of Energy Transportation EPA and HUD HUD interesting partner there so thank you I think we have a question in the back of the room thank you this is mostly a discussion on federal policy so I apologize for bringing in the states but could any of you indicate to what extent states can seriously or have seriously change the way they view this new kind of fuel of a sense sustainable fuel for our transportation are you getting a good sense that states even those that may be how shall I say this nets not so inclined to necessarily be aggressive in climate but understand that this is a new this is the new way we're going to be rolling the wheels thank you feel free anyone would like to jump in please feel free I can jump in I mean certainly on the fuel side you have three states that have implemented a low carbon or clean fuel standard California chief among them and that has I won't go into all the nuts and bolts but essentially you have to be you have to continually lower the carbon intensity of the fuel that you supply in the transportation fleet in those states so for our members we have invested heavily to do exactly that reduce our industry's carbon intensity on average we're about a 50% reduction compared to gasoline but you know with readily available technologies we can get pretty close to net zero and we have members today who are producing cellulosic biofuel from kernel fiber as an example but you know the west coast is really driven sort of the fuel debate some of the other states are looking at that you know there's also been states who've been involved on sort of vehicle requirements as well a lot of the same states but I would say I I would say broadly the debate on carbon carbon intensity is definitely ramping up in the states Genevieve please feel free to weigh in if I could um um I'm just gonna talk to you thank you it's not just me see thank you thank you um as as Chris said said that there are um states have a lot of various approaches some carrots and some sticks obviously california and its follower states are using sort of an emissions reduction approach to driving changes in the transportation sector there are also many states have incentives for purchasing vehicles and for infrastructure I think it's also interesting at the same time there are a lot of states it's become increasingly popular to impose a registration fees on electric vehicles the rationale being to make up for lost gas tax funds but unfortunately those numbers are set at sometimes three to four times what an internal combustion engine driver would pay annually in state gas taxes so there's um there's incentives and penalties sometimes working um in the same states but I would say they they are a good portion of the states are looking forward and all all of the states have applied for and are working through the nevy infrastructure funds which are going to make a big difference in um seeding and reinforcing investment and infrastructure that's one thing from at least EPA's perspective of states um uh is uh you know obviously you know california has done a lot in in this space so we brought up california um uh and thinking about sustainable transportation clean fuels uh clean vehicles zero emission technologies one of the things we've been focused on outside of consumer education including thinking about how do we educate the general public how we interact with industry but uh our office recently worked with another office within EPA which is the state and local branch office to do electrification webinars um as states were looking for reached out because they were looking just for general information some some cases would have been help us to understand electrification as it relates to transit buses help us to understand electrification as it relates to school buses or the port sector or can you put us in contact with um utilities from all you know all across the country so I think being in a federal partner in that way was helpful to kind of like kind of put everyone in the room to to give the states the resources they needed um in that moment so that's one area in which we try to support states and kind of um especially those that are interested I think um in moving in a certain path as we really try to think about transportation and decarbonization I'd like to give you a chance to weigh in if you want I'll defer I see some hands up so I'll defer great uh Georgia we have a question up here on the front side of the column hi thank you all for being here um I apologize my questions twofold um can any of you speak to the potential mitigation that's possible for environmental damages as well as the emissions that take place for extraction and transportation of necessary materials like lithium and gallium um necessary to build EVs and other electrical components and if we're not extracting much in the US um how is it benefiting our economy to extract in one place haul to another destination um manufacturer and then haul those um that fleet to dealers um domestically and our kin biofuels maybe find a space in hauling those materials thank you should I take the first crack at that yeah hello um all right so I'll take a I'll take a crack at the first fold of that um so in the critical materials supply chain which you know we've seen versions of this in oil extraction every critical materials rare earths coal oil whatever whatever material you want to extract there is energy intensity and there's an environmental damage or impact that needs to be addressed the difference in building the EV supply chain is the whole world is watching this we are built essentially building this from scratch and are required to do it cleaner better more sustainably and to higher ethical standards than any of our predecessors have ever been uh in in this global trade and to speak of global markets is it it's in fact well one the the impact of building the US market brings supply chains closer um and that's that's the way markets work that's why you're seeing battery facilities and refining facilities locating here because suppliers want to be closer to their customers but at the same time there is an absolute role for a global marketplace so that there is a resilient diverse and innovating supply chain we don't um we do not need to and we should not be trying to fence off all of our industry into just our domestic suppliers that is um a recipe for uh reliance and it's not in fact economically or necessarily environmentally feasible sorry what was the biofuels part of that short answer is yes um biofuels are used in both the light duty and heavy duty fleet we're on the ethanol side so more on the light duty side but heavy duty biodiesel renewable diesel are used today i'll make a very quick comment on on the good question and that's that there is a management science you know we have a the transit systems have an environmental systems management committee that deals with those kinds of issues and deals with them in a responsible way thank you brittany did you have anything you want to add okay question up here thanks a a poll that came out from pew just earlier this week said that uh for most americans the concerns about EVs at this point are not cost they are not range they are about charging infrastructure and in particular i would imagine that that is especially the case among the shall we call them the ungaraged people who do not have garages at their home which is where a lot of folks tend to charge overnight people who live in apartments people live in townhouses and only have street parking etc etc so question for jenna v for sure and maybe also for britney is what is being done to help the ungaraged well i i don't know that i've ever heard the term ungarage before but i like it it's good it's good charging and expanding access to charging is a central preoccupation of the industry of the administration and to urban and rural planners how do we get equitable and come comprehensive access to charging and the answer is multifold it will depend on each community what sort of charging they need what does it look like or is it multi-unit dwellings and do you create communal spaces where there is access to fast chargers is there increasing access to electrified transit and ride share or do we have create more incentives for workplace charging because if you recall i'm i'm sure if you've read all this that 80 percent of charging is home and work i for instance i only charge at work i am ungaraged i charge at work but creating more incentives for workplace charging create it's also in down to the level of building codes and condominiums and allowing folks to add charging at condos but it it will be will take state local and and federal incentives there's obviously there's a federal incentive for installing infrastructure that's residential and commercial infrastructure that's that's certainly a piece of the puzzle but it also takes planning investment in public charging but also understanding what charging needs actually are and what perceived charging needs are because those are not exactly the same yeah i'll agree like literally a hundred percent of what she said jenny b said um i think uh you know because of evs 10 years ago we're not as uh seen on the roads and people didn't have access to them as much it was only a select few charging at home was probably ideal maybe 10 five years ago at work because we didn't have necessarily have the infrastructure in the public roads so one of the that's one of the areas we actually are tracking because we want that's how you assure that things are equitable and accessible to all who may not necessarily have a garage or a designated parking area where they can charge but how do you build out infrastructure one of the ways we're seeing that we're seeing that through electrify america which is a result of vw settlement we're charging public charge stations are being built all across the country we're seeing that when figuring out what people true needs are in terms of do you need to actually have it at home most people drive under 50 miles a day so with expected range do you need to charge every day and the idea is to try to get charging as close as possible to folks daily commute so that they could potentially charge anywhere not necessarily at home the other thing is working with state and local governments a lot of this is getting back down to the level of why we have the decarbonization blueprint because it's going to require land use planning and how we build out communities as well so we have obviously the federal tax incentive with the foot for actual evs themselves but a lot of states have implemented charging infrastructure incentives as well for areas for example in dc you can do it in condominium areas so it just varies on what the infrastructure needs are but we are keeping tabs on that outside of that and no additional funding necessarily has been put in place from EPA to incorporate this installation of charging for ungrotched homes but it is something we keep in track of so we're just trying to really build out and and see the building out of the charge infrastructure really in areas that we don't see it as much and we have another question in the middle here hi so are there obstacles for electric electric transit buses and school buses who are taking not only longer routes and rural areas but also colder areas and do you see this as an opportunity for low emission alternative fuel vehicles to be part of you know this overall goal here well i'll make a couple comments on that first of all yeah low emissions are good zero emissions are better so that's that's point one point two is there are big challenges you've mentioned cold weather that is that is that is true now there's also hydrogen you know we're talking a lot about electric but hydrogen is a zero emission there is a little mini wave towards consideration of hydrogen as we also pursue electric electric options and the question of range is another thing hopefully battery density is going to keep getting better and that problem we're going to overcome over time but you've identified a few challenges and we're up to address all of them as we do move to low and particularly zero emission fleets yeah no i i agree with with with art was saying the other thing i was going to highlight one of the things we're really seeing outside of obviously there's some issues with cold but we've seen a lot of areas where electric buses are flourishing in cold climates i think we also believe that there can be a diversity of technology options depending on the areas needs what works in minnesota might not work in florida vice versa um so area by area varies one of the bigger concerns actually has not been that though it has been infrastructure um and then also in some of our remote areas we work a lot with our tribes um uh in more rural areas uh as um and our clean school bus program has been uh when your bus breaks down because every technology breaks down just like your you know diesel school bus would in any case there may not be someone who can work on the bus for 200 miles away and so we have actively working uh now we realized we needed to get involved with how folks are trained um in this space to ensure that um hence job creations i know we didn't talk a little bit about jobs where folks are trained in those areas to be able to support the needs of the technology as well so that's been kind of more of the bigger concern um in some of the more rural areas has been the infrastructure and then a challenge when a bus breaks down you don't have anyone to work on it um and then trying to kind of support the area where we're keeping track of where's what schools are actually producing folks that can actually work on these technologies to ensure they're in contact with the right areas and spaces where those those skills are needed all right uh did you have a question okay um well you've been a trooper you've been here all day so you we'll get the last question of the day oh boy all right hi um we've been talking about chargers and when you talk about chargers you're talking about electricity demand and i know in some cases there's concern that you know you can't get if you can't put a pile of fast chargers on the distribution system the utilities just can't do it to what extent you know does the electric system have to be ready for the EV chargers so it's absolutely the right question and let's start with the the first question is what do utilities do they plan for demand right so when the world got air conditioning um when the world started every christmas getting 15 giant TVs they plan for these increases in demand in building capacity also in managing demand that's can be an enormous piece of adding new load new mobile load to the grid at the same time this new mobile load can be an asset to the grid managed properly so it's not so much about new capacity it's about like smart demand there is certainly we've seen supply chain challenges the transformer supply chain has still not recovered from the unpleasantness of the last couple of years so there are there are actual hardware pieces of this that we need to work on and certainly there's planning but between innovation so that charging is smarter batteries are more efficient and you can access the value of batteries and make renewables more useful to the grid to enable distributed resources more effectively these are all parts of what i think that's why we call it a transition to e-mobility it's not flicking a switch we're going to build this ecosystem other comments on the panel go ahead 20 seconds yeah i was thinking i've been in talks with utilities as of late and usually the response we we get is we need folks to come to us first so when it what does that mean typically it's when you have a thought so before you buy the technology when you have a thought because they need that planning period one utility in particular said we're focused right now our modeling system is using 2019 projections projections we know change over time and they can change drastically so we need you to kind of help us be a part of that planning and planning out in advance to meet the needs because usually those needs can be met if you come to us first and work together before you kind of jump the gun and then say now i need to have this amount of power i need to have this amount of access so using the joint office we've been encouraging folks to work with utilities following outlines they've provided there thank you very very much before we wrap the panel just wanted to give a shout out there's a he was just sitting there a second ago there's a clean fuels development coalition table in the back with some materials oh there's burl areas okay so check that out too get some some good information back there as well Brittany, Genevieve, Chris and Art thank you for being great panelists and for helping us get through a tremendous policy form and expo so round of applause for our panelists please hey Dan do you think there'll be any ice at the reception well i i wanted to make sure we heard it so i asked them i we miked them all right before um yes there will be ice um and there will be crackers and cheeses and wines and beers so i'd like to say thanks to everybody and the in-person audience for joining us today thanks to everyone in our online audience on the livecast for joining us today as well thanks to all the panelists to the exhibitors thanks to everyone on our esi team huge thanks to senator reed and his staff and senator crepo and his staff for their assistance uh the members of congress who stopped by we'll have more members of congress stopped by during the reception as well so i hope everyone can join us i think that's safe to say that we're wrapping the 26th annual uh congressional renewable energy and energy efficiency expo and policy form on a high note so we know that they have ice we should go we should go use it uh so thanks everybody uh we'll wrap there and uh we'll see you at the reception thanks