 community matters. We're joined this afternoon by Sandy Ma, Executive Director of Common Clause, Hawaii, who I admire greatly. Did you hear that, Sandy? Did you hear what I said? I admire you greatly. Jane, you're way too kind. Thank you for having us. We're talking about voting bills today, okay? So the larger issue is that voting has become more important, you know, more higher on our priority list, our consciousness, if you will. We associate voting appropriately with the democracy, because that's how democracies work. You know, you vote for the people who lead you, who have the power. And so voting on the mainland is kind of a train wreck. May I say that? Train wreck. We don't have the voting bills that Joe Biden wanted to pass. We don't have either one of them. And we have several legislatures, I mean, like a dozen, on the mainland who are pulling the rug out from under voting. So I want to talk about both ends of that. First end is Hawaii, because Hawaii is a leader actually in fair, free and fair elections and voting. At the same time, you are tuning it up, polishing it off, and you have two bills going on in the ledge. I don't know if they're your bills or somebody else's bills, you should tell us where they came from. What bills are they, Sandy? So thank you for that, Jane. So Common Clause is a national, non-partisan, grassroots organization. And our mission is to ensure that people are able to participate in government. And that government is representative of the people versus special interests. And that starts off with voting, as you said. We want to make sure that our voting systems are secure and open and secure at the same time. And so we do have two bills that are moving through the legislative process. The legislature ends this Thursday, May 5th. One of the bills is HB 1883, HB House Bill 1883. And that is a bill that was proposed by Common Clause Hawaii, and that is dealing with giving notice of voting of ballot translation services to the people. And so that is a bill proposed by Common Clause Hawaii, and that has already been enrolled to the governor for his signature. And what that bill does is it has, well, currently, let's start off currently, and what the law is currently. So Section 203 of the National Voting Rights Act provides that O'ahu has voting translation services in two languages for people on O'ahu, in Mandarin, Chinese, and in Filipino. And what is Filipino? It's Tagalog or Ilocano. And so if you need translation services, you could get it in Mandarin or in Tagalog or Ilocano if you live on O'ahu. And it also extends that right to the county of Maui, but it just extends it in Filipino, which is Tagalog or Ilocano, the two main languages. So if you live on Hawaii or if you live on Hawaii County and you need language translation services, it is not mandated by federal law. And so we saw that gap in the 2020 elections with vote by mail. And so we decided to remedy that with this law HB 1883, which will take effect, not unfortunately not for this 2022 elections, but for 2024 elections. So are there bills like this on the mainland? Are there translation services on the mainland in any state? So there are translation services mandated by federal law, like I said, section 203 of the National Voting Rights Act. But I don't know if there's a bill similar to what we've done here. So our bill is unique in the sense that language translation services, notice of language translation services will be provided in Hawaiian, which is our state official language, and the five most necessary languages or most media languages. And what we've seen in Hawaii is that we are the most diverse state in the nation, according to our 2020, excuse me, our 2020 census, and actually non-English speakers at home increased recently in the last two decades, and that less than 40% of English proficiency is at home. English proficiency amongst non-English speakers have been increasing at home. And so people actually need language translation services in Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, and Ilocano-speaking populations. And so that's why we have this notice of language translation services bill that's actually sitting before the governor to be signed. So why some languages are not others? Why not just deal with all of them? Well, it's a notice of language translation services. So because we have to retain people to be able to translate the language services, to be able to translate the ballots into different languages. So that could be a need that could be hard to fulfill if we do all languages because we don't know what the languages are. And so we did the six languages in the bill. So what do you say to me if I speak Tibetan? And I can't read the ballot, but I do qualify to vote. Yeah, so that's something that we will try to help people get the language translation services. If there's enough time given in advance that you need this service, then definitely we will try to help you obtain language translation services. So step me through it. So let's say I'm Chinese, for example. And I speak Chinese, but not so much English. But I am qualified to vote. And I would like to avail myself of the benefit of this bill. I mean, once it's signed, and I believe it will be signed. How do I do that? What's the process? So the process is that on the, it's a notice. So I'm going to show this to you. And this is what we saw in 2020. It was an envelope that came sent to voters. I'm sorry, it's not showing up very well. It was an envelope where the ballot, this is the 2020 vote by mail ballot. And there was a notice of language translation services on the Oahu. I live on Oahu. And so on the back of the ballot envelope, it's notice of language translation services. And it says, if you need language translation services, you call this number, and they will give you language translation services. And so what we've done is have that service be extended to six languages that notice be extended to six languages. So if you need language translation services in six languages, call this number to get help. And so I'm hoping that will trigger for all people who need, who are voters, who need language translation services. It could be in Chamorro that you call this number and say, look, I need help. I need this like ballot translated in a language that I could read and understand to do this for me. To just, even if it's not in this written language that I could read and understand, that it just triggers someone else to call and help get this language translation service for you. Okay. So the person who answers the phone, when me, a Mandarin speaker calls and asks for help, does that person speak Mandarin? So there is a service on the other end that will connect you with a speaker of your native language. Okay, good. Good. Who pays? Taxpayers. It's through the Office of Elections. Yes. But the service was always there. It was just not publicized. And we were publicizing requiring the Office of Elections and the county's election divisions to publicize the service. Okay. Now I have to ask you my flip side question. Okay, ready? Okay. Suppose I'm a taxpayer and I find out about this and I say, why did I pay for somebody to vote in another language? This is America. And if they want to vote, they should speak English. They don't speak English. They should learn English. There's no reason for the government to go and take these steps. What do you answer? You know, I hear that a lot. And I understand that visceral reaction to that. So my response is, my parents are immigrants to this country. And they do speak English. They don't read English very well, but they do speak English. They are naturalized citizens. And they take the responsibility of voting incredibly seriously. When I was young, they would take me to the polls with them to vote. And that's where I've grown up loving the idea of voting and voting every single chance I got since I turned 18. Given that they are immigrants and they love America and the responsibility of voting, but they don't read English very well, they don't want to make a mistake. And so when I went to the polls with them, they would always ask me, am I reading this correctly? Am I filling this ballot out correctly? I don't want to vote wrong and have my vote be counted incorrectly. And that is why these ballot translations are so important for immigrants. It's not that we are trying to get a service we don't deserve. It is so that we can make sure we are voting correctly and properly. I wasn't going to the polls giving my parents a wrong or a wrong improper lift up in the polls. I was just translating for them to make sure that they were doing filling out the polls correctly. It is like getting an accommodation when taking a test. And that is really what immigrants, when you're giving them a translation service for voting, they want to do it correctly. They don't want to fill out something wrong and have their vote be counted as an overvote and their ballot be spoiled. Oh yeah. And you've described a scenario where the translator person goes into the ballot box with them, I mean into the poll itself and helps them understand the ballot or what? Oh no, that was when I was a kid and I just- Oh no, now, now. Oh no, they could just give them a translated ballot or they could just read the instructions to them. Okay, so they don't have to go inside the poll behind the curtain or anything like that? Oh no, no. No, because it's a vote by mail ballot. It's just explaining the instructions. And honestly, I think that's a really good thing to have here in Hawaii because our primary ballots, if you cross party lines, your ballot is spoiled, it doesn't count. As that's really important to explain to someone, don't cross party lines. You may like a candidate for this one race from this one party and you may like a candidate from this other party for this other race, but if you cross party lines, your ballot will not count. And so that's very important to let somebody know. But I caught something else you said. So the translator will translate, say, all the Chinese ballots, okay, and that's good for anyone who speaks Mandarin. I mean, you're not going to translate it separately for every voter. You translate it for the whole group of voters. So it's not that expensive. Because you're just getting another version of the ballot in the translated language, right? It's translating instructions as well. And so that's really important translating instructions. Yeah. Okay, let's go to the second bill. That is expected to pass, by the way. David, you gave us expected to sign that bill, right? The notice of translation services, I hope so. There was really no opposition to that notice of translation services. Like I said, the office of elections and the elections divisions supported it. Okay. What about the second bill? We also were supporting rank choice voting. And this is rank choice voting for just special federal elections and special vacant council seats. So it was just for very limited races to help people get to become familiar with rank choice voting in Hawaii. So what's the problem that this bill would solve? So in rank choice voting, it's to help to correct. So rank choice voting, it happens when there is like, okay, rank choice voting. A lot of people have concerns with rank choice voting in that there's confusion over the ballot process and how you rank the ballot. But it's really a very simple procedure in which if there are multiple candidates running for one office, then a voter doesn't have to just select one person that has like the most name recognition or select one candidate that a voter thinks the candidate will most likely win. A voter can just rank the candidates in order of preference. And so this will allow the voters choices to actually count. And so we think that will create more engagement in Hawaii. And so that's what we think. Rank choice voting will solve the problem of just not saying, oh, my vote won't count because I like this candidate and this candidate won't win. And so we're not going to bother voting. And so that's why we hope rank choice voting does get passed in Hawaii because it'll allow candidates to like rank the candidates in order of preference versus just only having to select one person, the one person with the most name recognition or the one person who has like the biggest war chest and could spend the most money. So that's why rank choice voting is important in Hawaii. So is rank choice voting, it is being done in other states as I recall. And I wonder if you could describe it, how it operates and whether it's the same thing in the other states and also whether it's been successful there? Yeah, so rank choice voting has been adopted in 55 jurisdictions nationwide and about 10 million voters will be voting by rank choice ballot in 2022 in this upcoming election. So it's being used by a lot of people in a lot of different places. I don't know if everyone recalls that in New York City, the New York City mayor was recently elected by rank choice voting. Alaska senators were elected by rank choice voting. Maine's governor is elected by rank choice voting. So there's a lot of large races elected by rank choice voting. Like I said, in Hawaii, we are only pushing for rank choice voting and two narrow races by special federal election and by special vacant county council races. And these races, everybody, Democrats, Republicans, Greens, everybody is all on one ballot and they're all running at the same time. And so people are free to rank these candidates in their order of preference. And that's for special federal elections for county council seats or county council races. They're nonpartisan and so a lot of people run in vacant county council races, county council seat. So why not do all the races this way? I mean, it creates a certain amount of inconsistency. If I go down and vote on one race and it's one system and on the other race, it's the rank choice system. Why not do them all that way? Yeah, so that's a great question. We decided to look at special federal election and special vacant county council seats because like I said, that's a winner take all at once. There's not a runoff after there's one after a special election. The person who wins the most votes gets the most votes is the winner of that special federal election for special vacant county council seats. Again, if the person gets the most votes, then the person is elected to that open special election county council seat. And so we thought those two races will be a good way of getting the voters adjusted to the rank choice ballot instead of having like a primary election where you have a rank choice ballot and then going on to a general election with a rank choice ballot who wanted just to have a discrete ballot and for people to get used to the rank choice ballot and how the tabulation ranking works. So you don't have to have a runoff where you might otherwise have a runoff. You're saving the taxpayers the money of a secondary election. That could be a lot of money, no? Yes, that's absolutely right. But we didn't want to all of a sudden redo our electoral system and doing away with the primary and general election. Wanted people to understand the benefits of a rank choice ballot. But do you contemplate that maybe another change later or a series of changes where you work your way to rank choice on everything you can possibly use it for, right? Yes, hopefully, people could see the benefits of it truly working and coming up with a good majority candidate with a rank choice ballot instead of having a new candidate that only let's say, for example, 15% of the voters selected. So that's why we wanted to do kind of like a pilot rank choice with these two races. Well, presumably, this is all about educating citizens and making them understand their powers and their rights and their duties and so forth as citizens. And I just wonder, I mean, I guess one of the implications here is that if I was faced and I knew I was faced with rank choice voting, then I would probably study all the candidates more because I have a duty as to each one rather than just pick the one that, you know, falls in the right ethnic name or a main recognition of some other kind. And this way, I'm motivated, I think, I don't know if this really works this way, but I'm guessing I would be motivated to study them all and make intelligent priorities. Is that the way it works? Well, there's also a burden on the candidates to reach out to a broader swath of the electorate to try to appeal to a broader swath of the electorate instead of just narrowly appealing to who they think they could get to vote for them and to win by a narrow margin. And so it kind of tones down the rhetoric and builds more consensus and goodwill across the voting group. And so that's what we found that was really helpful with rank choice voting, that, you know, they talk more about policies instead of mudsling. Oh, yes, that's so important in our time because I'm sure you've noticed I have is that we get less platforms on public policy issues than we do, you know, ethnic or mudslinging or, you know, things that are really not important. Let me ask you one other thing about that, though. Suppose I didn't do my homework, just suppose and I'm faced with a whole slate of candidates that I'm supposed to prioritize. And, you know, this happens on OHA all the time, because nobody knows who's running for OHA. They don't know them. Okay, so I have a whole list and it's all on the ballot there, and I have to rank it, but I don't know them all. I don't know enough to rank them. So how does the ballot work? I'm supposed to rank them, but I don't know enough to rank them. Sure, that's a great question. You don't have to rank if you don't want to. You could just choose one. But you have to choose number one. You can't like skip the number one and just go to three or skip three and go to five. You have to like choose one. When you choose one and you can't like skip two and rank three, or you can't double up on one and go, everyone is one, one, one, one, one across the board that will invalidate your ballot. So you could only rank one. And then you could rank if there's a slate of let's say 10. You could rank just one, two, three. You don't have to rank all 10. So that's how ranked choice ballots work. You should not skip numbering. You can't assign people the same numbers, but you don't have to rank off all the numbers. You could just rank like one and one, two, or one, two, three. However, many numbers you want to rank, but you do have to rank them in order. You can't skip numbers. You can't assign the same numbers. So if both bills pass, then the translator bill will have to translate those instructions into, say, the college. And I will have to understand that. And it may be a little more complicated than my expectation. So you have to get people who can translate all of that and make sure that people understand the new system. We have little schematics already that says, there's a sample ballot where it shows you how to fill it out. And it shows a little x where if you rank the same number across the candidates, it's a x. If you skip numbering, that's an x. And so we have little sample ballots. Are you ready to go? Oh, good. So what's the chance of that second bill on the, what do you call it, voting, the passing? Is there anybody who opposes me? For example, if I'm a candidate or I'm supporting a candidate who is going to try to run a name recognition, hey, I don't like this bill. I want to do it the old fashioned way on name recognition. So is there anybody out there that's opposing this bill? Yes. So the Republicans elected in our state legislature have come out against right choice voting. And so which is kind of disappointing because, you know, it's right choice voting has been adopted in red states, like many jurisdictions in Utah use right choice voting. Our military uses right choice voting. And so it's very interesting. But they feel like it will disadvantage them here in Hawaii. But it's a right choice voting really is a non partisan ballot. Well, not for the Republicans. I mean, if you if you draw a line between the Republicans here and assume they have some contact connection, some leadership from the Republicans, such as the Republicans are on the mainland, they're going to be opposing any kind of improvement voting system. Just look what they've done on the mainland, you know, it's kind of the platform is only to constrain voting, but not on public policy. That's my comment. You don't have to agree with that or not. We don't because it really is a non partisan issue. Like recently, Virginia's Republican Party adopted right choice voting. And so it's it really it's a non partisan issue, Sandy. But the Republicans have all gotten together in Hawaii and opposed the bill. Yeah, that's absolutely partisan. I don't really understand why. So okay, let's let's that's a perfect segue to getting to the national now. Common cause to its credit, you know, a very important feature in our democracy cares a lot about voting. That's why we're here. That's why you introduced these two bills. And I truly hope they both pass. And the question is, you know, this is a very small effort in Hawaii, as opposed to a much larger effort to ensure free and fair elections on the mainland. I know common cause heavily involved in that we talked about that before. And you brought in one of your national officers to to discuss it. I just want to know the situation, what it looks like. I can tell you that for one voter, I am very concerned that in November or before November, as the case may be, these changes and happen that are happening in a dozen states, thanks to partisan Republican actions and state legislators, legislators. And for that matter, the failure of the voting rights bills, two of them in Congress will have a very negative effect on free and fair voting. So query, what can a common cause do? What is common cause doing? And how does it look? So that is a really good question. And we are disappointed that the voting rights bills in Congress did not pass. But we are currently working on our election protection program to make sure that people are able to access the polls and balance our getting to the people. So we are actually engaging in robust election protection work as we speak right now. Early voting is in progress in Georgia as we speak. And so we are making sure that we are monitoring the polls and reporting any type of intimidation. And we are working hard at it and we have attorneys standing by. We are still doing redistricting and reapportionment work. And so to try to make sure that our lines are fair and accurately represent the people that we are not having communities of interest, minority communities split up for the next decade diminishing our political power, our electoral vote. So we are still doing all that we can. The work never stops. The fight doesn't stop for us to represent the people to make sure that people are properly represented. That's why I love Common Cause there at the core of our democracy. That's very important. What's your website? It's commoncause.org. Backslash Hawaii. Thank you, Jake. Well, I just have one other question I want to ask you, Sandy, and that is this. It seems to me that the word has gotten out to all communities in the country that there are those who would stop us from voting. There are those who would take actions that would make it more difficult for people to vote and clear that that is what the intention of that legislation in those various states on the mainland would do. And it's clear that the Republicans in general across the country have taken the position that they want to depress voting. And often, if not always, it's a racial issue. So the question is, and this is a hard one, but I bet you somebody in Common Cause has thought about this, is that going to get a reaction among the moderate voters to say, wait a minute, what is going on here? A democracy is based on free and fair voting. These people are going the other way. They're trying to suppress free and fair voting. I am therefore going to vote against anything they come up with. Is there, do you think, does Common Cause think, if it thinks about this, going to be a negative reaction to those politicians, those legislators, those Congress people who are opposing voting rights? I hope everyone votes their conscience and everyone votes every election, not just the general election, but midterm elections because every vote does count, not just the national vote, but the state and local elections. So I hope everyone votes every election, not just national, but state and local elections because it all matters as we can see. You expect a big turnout in November? Nationally or locally? Each one, the either one. I really do. I really hope so because I really do. There's so much is on the line. It's not just voting rights. It's climate change, everything. It all matters. I think we say this every election, but it really, every election matters. It really does. Let me take one more question and that is, is there a trend here? And I don't mean a trend over 50 years. I mean a trend over like two or three years where people are more interested in what happens in their respective jurisdictions, where they go down to vote because they want to exercise their franchise because they want to have a stay because they're concerned that the people must speak. Is there a trend to more interest by more voters? I really hope so. I really hope people take more interest in their government. I have heard from a few people that the recent corruption allegations in the state have turned people off from voting and I don't understand that sentiment. Why would corruption allegations cause you not to vote? I would want more oversight of my elected officials. I would want more say in what they're doing instead of less say in what they're doing. But I don't understand people a lot of times. I hope people are not so jaded and cynical that they want nothing to do with government because that makes bad things even worse. People need to be involved. I know we're all busy. We're all tired from the pandemic. We work very hard. We have family obligations. But this is our government. We cannot afford to not be involved. Whether it's just one phone call to your legislator or your council member to say I'm disappointed or I'm really happy with what you're doing, that is enough. We cannot afford not to be involved. Good for you. Good for Common Cause. Sandy Ma, Executive Director Common Cause in Hawaii. Thank you so much for appearing on our show. Thank you, Jay, for having Common Cause Hawaii. Thank you for being an ally and friend. Absolutely. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.