 Okay. Welcome back everybody to BC 308, our class on Revelation and Daniel. We are in Daniel 7, we have a little bit more to complete in this chapter. I see Abhishek's question. I have a question regarding the iron and clay. Does it also represent the mixture of AI technology and human? Okay. Right. Abhishek, every time we study scripture, we must always interpret scripture within what scripture is telling us. When the scripture is giving us the interpretation, then we shouldn't superimpose or bring to it a different meaning. So if you go back to chapter 2, Daniel chapter 2, the meaning of every part of the image is already given to us. For example, in Daniel 2, he clearly says verse 38, you, he's telling Daniel 238, end of the verse, he says, you are the head of gold. That means he's saying, King Nebuchadnezzar, you are the head of gold. That means gold represents the Babylonian kingdom and it represents the kingdom. So everything in Daniel 2 in that image is representing a kingdom. So silver represents a kingdom, brass represents a kingdom, iron represents a kingdom. So we cannot therefore bring in something of our own and ascribe it to what the Bible has already interpreted for us. So I cannot say, oh, gold represents the United States. I can't do that. The Bible already said here, Daniel said, you are the head of gold, Nebuchadnezzar, your kingdom, that's gold. So I cannot add, come in and put something. And he explains everything. So therefore, when he says iron mixed with clay, he's already told us what iron is. Verse 40, iron is a fourth kingdom. Iron is not AI technology. Iron is not anything else. It's a fourth kingdom. He told us what iron is. That's in Daniel 2, verse 40. And therefore, when he continues in verse 41, and he says iron will be mixed with clay. Hey, he already told us what iron is. Iron is the fourth kingdom. The fourth kingdom is now going to be mixed with clay. And then he tells us what clay is in verse 43. He says the clay represents the seed of men, meaning all the other races, people of all other kingdoms. So the scriptures have already interpreted this for us. What is iron? What is clay? It's already interpreted. So it'll be wrong to ascribe a different meaning to iron than what is already given to us in scripture. Does that help, I'm sure? Yeah, okay. So let's go back to chapter 7. So we have looked at all the... Srikumar, you have a question? Yes, I just want to know. Can we see that iron and clay also... Can the democracy represent iron and clay? Nowadays, now the kingdom is not there, as you said, the weakness. Can we consider that? Let's see. So iron is mixed with clay. Now what you're trying to say is, can that represent democracy? See, democracy is a form of government. So here, what Daniel is telling us in chapter 2, he's saying iron, which represents the fourth kingdom, which we know as the Roman Empire, that is mixed with clay. And he's basically talking about how people of that kingdom are going to be mixed with the seed of men, which is people of all other races, what has happened or is happening throughout Europe. And everywhere where the Roman Empire was, people are all mixed, everything's happened. Can we say that is democracy? My response to this is... See, the answer is no, because he's not really talking about... the form of government. That's not the emphasis. The emphasis on the fact that there's an intermingling of what was part of, what was previously part of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire, with all the other human races. So that is the emphasis of Daniel chapter 2. And what was that? Verse 43, right? So that's the emphasis. And don't see any indication that he's trying to imply a form of government. I think the focus of verse 43, Daniel 2.43, is more of the intermingling that's happening, as opposed to a democratic form of government. Because, I mean, yeah, that's my response to your question. Yeah, I wouldn't infer democracy from Daniel 2.43. Yeah, I'm taking a little time to answer your question, because first time somebody's asking me this question. And I'm just thinking through on it. Yeah, I wouldn't infer democracy from Daniel 2.43, because I feel the emphasis is more on the mixing of races and people as opposed to the form of government. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Yeah, okay. Yeah, so Daniel chapter 7. So we have looked in Daniel 7 at the beasts, the four beasts, the ten horns, the little horn, all that's going to happen. Now we need to look at what else Daniel saw. This is from verse 9. So after he sees the beasts, the four beasts and all that, suddenly you can say the scene changes in the vision. And there's a fresh scene. Something completely different. He's seeing verse 9, he's seeing thrones in place and he sees the ancient of days. And he just describes it. This is the father in all of his purity and wisdom, hair is pure like wool and there's this throne like flames and wheels are burning fire. So remember, Daniel is seeing a vision and he's describing in the language that he could what he's seeing. So it doesn't mean that God's throne has wheels and God is in a wheelchair moving everywhere around heaven. That's not it. Though he says the throne has wheels. So he's just seeing this amazing vision and he's just using his language to describe what he's seeing. Now you and I may use different language if we see the same vision. We might see somebody, we might say, he is so bright and we may express or capture what we see in different words in language of today. Daniel captured it in the language of his time. So he's just using hair like wool and garment white like snow and the throne was just so powerful, fiery flame and the wheels like burning fire. Don't think the throne has wheels and so on. He's just speaking, just describe what he's seeing. And we're standing, there's a stream that came forth. I mean that the glory of God, the presence of God just streaming out of that where God is and he's seeing thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of people ministering standing before and seemingly he's saying the court was seated, the books were open. So it's almost like a great court, heavenly court scene. Like God is there, thousands of people are there and it's like God is sitting as judge. So that's the thing. Now we don't have to say okay there's a little court and you apply for your case and then you stand in queue for your turn to come and then you appeal your case. Don't build all that, I wanted to use the word nonsense but don't build all that kind of things. No, he's just communicating that fact that God is sitting as judge over all mankind. That's what God is, right? So don't add to that picture of a court scene and God being judge. What we do on earth, these kinds of things do that court. Some people have done it and come up with all kinds of crazy theology. So don't do that. Basically what he's saying is this ancient of days is God is judge over everybody. Everybody's standing before him, okay? And then what happens? When this whole thing is happening, basically that's the time, basically he's saying verse 11 and 12, that's the end of this little horn who was speaking pompous words. Hey, he's just out of the picture. Verse 11, you know? That little horn and in verse 11, he uses the phrase in the New Kingdom, the beast, the beast in verse 11 is in the context of little horn. Okay, so that little horn who is the beast taken out of the picture, put into flaming fire. Verse 12, the rest of the beast, okay, he saw four other beasts, right? Earlier. They were also gone, but he says their lives are, yet their lives are prolonged for a season at a time, meaning those kingdoms are all gone, but the people from those kingdoms continued for some time, which we know that could happen because when the saints inherited the kingdom and that kingdom is set up here or not, they're going to rule over the world, which includes all of these kingdoms that were covered by these four beasts, the Babylonian, the Medo-Persian, the Greeks, the Romans, and then the whole mix of people. So the lives, the kingdoms are gone. Nobody remembers Babylonians, Medo-Persians, and Greeks on that, but those people are there. They are continuing on the earth for a season at a time, meaning that we know it will be the millennium, all those people will be on earth and the saints will rule over them. Okay, that's verse 11, verse 12, that it goes back to seeing what happens in heaven. Verse 13. And I was watching the night vision. That means, look, I'm continuing to look in this vision that I'm seeing at night. And I see the one like the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven. He came to the ancient of days. They brought him near before him. So the son of man, this is the Lord Jesus Christ, or we could say the eternal word, God the Son. He's coming in the clouds of heaven, meaning that, you know, you can imagine that there's huge, glory, white clouds all around him. So he's entering this awesome vision. That's the ancient of days, God the Father. Thousands and thousands of people are all around him. He is sitting as a judge. And here comes God the Son into the presence of the Father. Now, this is very significant in helping us understand the Godhead, the Triune God. So what do you mean? You see two persons, God the Father, God the Son. Right? Then we can therefore say, okay, God the Holy Spirit is also a person. So the Godhead spoken off in Scripture is one God in three persons. These are distinct persons. God the Ancient of Days, the Son of Man. That's what he's seeing in the vision. Right? So it gives us clarity in understanding the Trinity or the Triune God of the Bible. Right? Distinct persons. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Distinct persons. Because the Son of Man is walking into the presence of the Father. The title Son of Man, as I mentioned earlier, I think last week or I mentioned earlier, that title is very important because Daniel is using this title here, Son of Man. Of course, we saw it used in chapter four. I mean, we didn't see it. It is in chapter four. When Nebuchadnezzar sees, he says, I see a fourth man in the fire. So this title, the Son of Man is very unique. And it is what the Lord Jesus used for himself. And this is what made the Jews very angry. How could he, this acupuncture from Nazareth, how dare he self-reference himself as the Son of Man? I know many times we interpret Son of Man in the context of his humanity. There's nothing wrong with that. But correctly, the Son of Man is a title used by Daniel to refer to this eternal being, God, who came into the presence of the ancient of days. And Daniel is using that title, Jesus is using the title for himself while he was here on the earth. So the Son of Man, he sees the Son of Man coming. And then verse 14, to him was given dominion and glory in the kingdom and all people to serve him. And his dominion is everlasting dominion and his kingdom will not be destroyed. So the kingdom was handed off to the Son of Man. Now we skip to the latter part of chapter seven. Verse 26, 27, the gold proceeded. They shall take away his dominion. That is the beast, that little horn. And he'll be destroyed forever. And verse 27, then the kingdom and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is everlasting kingdom and all dominions shall serve him. So what's happening? Daniel saw the ancient of days. He saw the Son of Man coming in and all authority dominion was handed to him on the earth and then he turns it around and he gives it to the saints. So that's the setup. That's what's going to happen in the millennium. The saints will rule the earth with the Son of Man, Jesus Christ. So this is Daniel chapter seven, beautiful chapter. It's just amazing details. But more details are to come in chapter eight and nine. He's going to explain further and further, give us more details. Okay. Let me pause here and just take up some questions. And let's see, Kennedy, where was Daniel when Shadrach Mission and Abednego were in the fire? I'll just ask a side question. Yeah. So they were all there in King Nebuchadnezzar's, in Babylon. Daniel was working in King Nebuchadnezzar's palace. So he probably had a senior position. And remember when Daniel was elevated, he also requested that Shadrach Mission Abednego be given some important position in the court. So we don't know what their positions were, but they were also serving in the court, given some position, some work to do. I don't know what work was. Because Daniel requested, right? Make sure you give them something. And they were all prepared for that. So maybe Daniel had a more senior position, a more prominent role. Shadrach Mission Abednego had some sort of role in King Nebuchadnezzar's court. Later on in chapter four, when this image, when Nebuchadnezzar made this image and said, everybody must bow to it. Shadrach Mission Abednego refused to bow. Daniel must have been in the court, or we don't know, but he was not singled out at that moment. Be assured that he would not have bowed to the image. But these three boys, young men, sorry, were singled out or caught, not bowing to the image. Therefore, they were dealt with. So Daniel must have been around. And the Bible doesn't record anything. Tell us what he exactly did. But we can just use our imagination. Daniel must have been praying. And he must have been saying, God, deliver them or something. And yeah, so we know he was there. What exactly was doing? It's not recorded for us. Elisha, in the present, who has dominion over the earth? So that's interesting. Because the Lord Jesus said in John 12, now is the ruler of this world cast out. I'll give you the exact verse, John. Yeah, this is verse 31. All right, John 12, 31. Jesus said, now the ruler of this world is cast out. And in John 16, Jesus said that the ruler of this world is judged or condemned or he's sentenced. This is in John 16 and was 11. So when Christ died on the cross and did finish his work, Satan was dethroned. Satan was condemned. Yet when the apostle Paul is writing later, he refers to Satan with this language. He refers to him in 2 Corinthians 4, verse 4. He refers to him as the God of this world, Ephesians 2. He refers to him as the prince of the power of the air. Jesus said, Satan is cast out. Satan is judged. We know Colossians 2. Jesus disarmed prince buddies and powers Hebrews 2. Jesus destroyed the one who has the devil. Matthew 28. Jesus said, all authority in heaven and earth is given to me. Then how could the apostle Paul refer to Satan as the God of this world? Isn't it contradictory? How could the apostle Paul refer to Satan as the prince of the power of the air? Isn't it contradicting what Christ did? It's not because Jesus represented the human race over through Satan and all his demonic powers, but Satan is disarmed. But he's given time to continue doing whatever he's doing here on earth until Revelation 20, verse 15. I mean, sorry, until Revelation 20, verse 4, which is the beginning of the millennium, then he'll be taken out for a thousand years and then he'll be given again a brief period of time. And then finally, Revelation 2015, he'll be fully, finally banished. But until Revelation 20, verse 4, Satan has continued to give permission to continue operations on the earth. But remember, in Christ, he, Satan, and all his demonic powers are actually disarmed before those who are in Jesus Christ. So in one sense, he's still the God of this world because he's continuing to hold sway over the people who are in darkness, influence them, work in them, so on. And in another sense, he is completely powerless before the believer because all authority that Christ has is now exhibited or is now being exercised through the church. So to answer your question, who has dominion of the earth? It really depends on which side you are on. If somebody is on the side of darkness, then for that person, Satan is exercising control. Well, those of us who are in the kingdom of light, we are in control. We are in charge because we have authority and power over Satan and his demons. And this will continue till the millennium when Satan is removed, the beginning of the millennium when Satan is removed from the earth. So did I answer your question? Is that clear? Yeah, Kennedy. I wish we did the historical part of this book. Yeah, so I kind of presented that in the very beginning, the opening introduction chapter we went through the history. And so if you go back to the very first lesson in the notes, the entire history starting from Abraham from the very beginning all the way till when, till from the Assyrian Empire all the way till the revolt of Maccabees is outlined for us. And so the history is available. And also I could refer you back to what we did last year in the end times where we looked at the history of Israel. We started off from Abraham all the way till the establishing of Israel as a nation. And then that covers a lot of, you know, what happened in terms of history in the context of which Daniel 7 comes in. Okay. If you want a lot more detail, then I would refer you to one of the PDFs that I've shared by David Woolford. And there's a lot of content that you could read there, historical content that you could read through that PDF. Now, you know, it's a huge book and there's a lot of content. So if you're interested in the historical part, you can definitely read through that. I'm just presenting it in the context with some background. Okay. All right. Very good. Any other questions on Daniel 7? Go ahead, Asha. Sorry, that's too much. Here in the Denims of Jerusalem, you're speaking about the descent of men, right? So, like, is it considered as one of, like, the prophecy of, like, oh, Jesus is going to, like, how the Book of Isaiah is mentioned? Okay. So your question is, is Daniel 7 a prophecy of who Jesus is going to be? Like how Isaiah foretells, for example, about the birth of Christ and so on. So you're saying, is it a prophecy of who he is going to be? That's your question. Is that correct? Yes, that's your question. Like, how he, like, like how I know, I know kind of understanding because everything plays things in the Book of Matthew and words about who Jesus is, like he was born physical and all this stuff. And the Book of Isaiah talks about his death and all this, how he was martyred and all for us. Like, he was martyred and crucified for us. And here, how the nation and what the Son of Man. So I'm just wondering, like, all this, how it is connected. So. Okay. Okay. Here's a simple explanation. Everything we read about Jesus in his glory as after his resurrection, that is the same and equal to everything we read about Jesus, who he was before the incarnation. That means the Jesus after his ascension is the same as the Jesus before the incarnation with only one difference. The only one difference is that Jesus after the ascension has a glorified body. That means the Jesus before the incarnation, the eternal word is the same as the Jesus after the ascension. He's still the eternal word. But when he ascended, he ascended with a glorified body, a spirit body. Now, but in terms of deity, the same. It's not like, you know, so Daniel is Daniel 713. He's seeing one like the Son of Man, to whom the kingdoms are over-given. Well, the Son of Man, the Daniel sees in Daniel 713, is the same at the time Daniel was writing this, which was before the incarnation. He's the same person. Same glory, same deity, everything. Except that now when he ascended, he ascended with a glorified body. So in our minds, we should be very clear that the eternal word who became the Son of God, Jesus Christ, and when this Jesus ascended, he became the same as he was. How do we know that? John 17 and verse, I think it's verse 5. Let me give you the exact verse. John 17, verse 5, says, Father, John 17, verse 5, Jesus is praying, says, Father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was. So imagine this. Jesus is on the earth in a physical body as the Son of God. He's praying to God the Father. He says, Father, glorify me. That means give me something I don't have right now. Glorify me. What's he asking for? The glory which I had with you before the world was. That means in the eternal past. So after Jesus' ascension, what happened? He was given the glory that he had with the Father before the world was. So the Son of Man, Daniel C. and Daniel 7, verse 13. Oh, sorry. Yeah, verse 13 is the Jesus who has the glory, the same glory that he had before the world was. Does it make it clear? Yes, Pastor. Thank you. Okay. All right. Any other questions from Daniel 7? So let's go to Daniel chapter 8. Now, Daniel chapter 8 is again very interesting. But in Daniel 8, he focuses in on certain things. It's like, you know, if you're looking at a magnifying glass, if you see it from a distance, you're seeing the full picture. Now you bring the magnifying glass a little closer, you're zooming in on certain parts of the big picture that has been presented to us from chapter 2 and elaborated for us in chapter 7. So once again, we need to read the entirety of Daniel chapter 8 and then, you know, start getting into it and seeing what is there. I see we have 10 minutes, I think. We should be able to read Daniel 8 in 10 minutes, I think. So let's do that. Let's try to do that. I want to encourage everybody. You know, let's go through it three verses at a time. Let's try to read Daniel 8, please. Daniel 8 verse 1 to 3. In the third year of King Dorsher's reign, I, Daniel, had a vision after the one that had already appeared to me. In my vision, I saw myself in the citadel of Sousa, in the province of Elam. In the vision, I was beside the Pulae canal. I looked up and there before me was a ram with two horns standing beside the canal and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other one. The other one grew up later. Thank you. I saw the other one charging westward and northward and southward. No beast could stand before him and there was no one who could rescue from his power. He did as he pleased and became great. As I was considering behold, a mere goat came from the west across the face of the whole earth without touching the ground and the goat had a conspicuous form between its eyes. He came to the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing on the back of the canal and he ran at him in his powerful wrath. I saw him come close to the ram and he was enraged against him and struck the ram and broke his two horns and the ram had no power to stand before him but he cast him down to the ground and trampled on the ground. He came to the ram with the two horns which I had seen standing on the bank of the canal and he ran at him in his powerful wrath. He cast him down to the ground and trampled on him and there was no one who could rescue the ram from his power. Then the goat became exceedingly great but when he was strong, the great horn was broken and instead of it, there came up four conspicuous horns and four wings of heaven. Out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east and toward the glorious land. Daniel 8 from 10. It grew great even to the host of heaven and some of the host and some of the stars it threw down to the ground and trampled on him. It became great even as great as the prince of the host and the regular burnt offerings was taken away from him and the place of his sanctuary was overthrown and the host will be given over to it together with the regular burnt offerings because of transgression and it will throw truth to the ground and it will act and prosper. Then I heard a holy one speaking and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, how long will the vision be concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot and he said to me for 2300 days then the sanctuary shall be cleansed then it happened when I Daniel had seen the vision and was seeking the meaning that suddenly there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. And I heard a man voice between the banks of the Ulai who called and said, Gabriel make this man understand the vision so he came near where I stood and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face but he said to me understand son of man that the vision refers to the time of the end now as he was speaking with me I was in a deep sleep with my face to the ground but he touched me and stood me upright and he said, look I am making known to you what shall happen in the later time of the indignation for at the appointed time and ends shall be and the ram which you saw having the two horns they are the kings of media and Persia and the male goat is the kingdom of Greece the large horn that is between its eyes is the first king now that being broken whereas four stood up for it four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation but not in his power and in the later time of that kingdom when the transgressors are come to the full a king of fierce continents and understanding dark sentences shall stand up and his power shall be mighty but not by his own power and he shall destroy wonderfully and shall prosper and practice and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people and through his holy, through his policy he shall cause trickery to prosper in his hand and he shall magnify himself in his heart and mind and in the security he will corrupt and destroy many he shall also stand up against the prince of princess but he shall be broken and that by no human hand the vision of the evening and the mourning which has been told you is true but seal up the vision for it has to do with and belongs to the now distant future and I Daniel fainted and was sick for several days afterward I rose up and did the king's business and I wondered at the vision but there was no one who understood it or would make it understood thank you guys thank you, thank you so very interesting Daniel again he has recorded this vision which he had earlier previously during the time of Belchazar in this vision he is seeing two different animals he is seeing a ram and he is seeing a goat now as before the interpretation is given to us in this same chapter so let me ask you what does the ram represent what does the goat represent the male goat the ram represents the king of media and pleasure and the goat or shaggy goat represents the king of priests perfect, thank you so right there right there in verses 20 and 21 the angel Gabriel speaking to Daniel has told him Daniel you are seeing these two animals fighting but these two animals the ram and the goat they are actually representing these kingdoms now remember he saw this vision at the time of Belchazar that means in the Babylonian while he was still under the Babylonian kingdom so God is showing him ahead of time and saying hey you know the Medes the Persians the Greeks so Daniel is being a given vision ahead in the time of coming world empires and Daniel is in the time of the Babylonians the Belchazar and the meaning of these animals is given right there so he sees verse 3 he sees a ram that is moving westward so that means Medes and Persia basically is covering in today's map would be the region of Iran and Iraq the Medes and the Persians he is seeing this ram it has two horns one is small and one is big the small one represents the Medes who took over power but then they lasted just a short time and then the Persians took over and were in power longer and more powerful but this ram with two horns represents the Medes and the Persians the Persian being the bigger horn the higher horn and they moved westward so obviously they are moving from the region of Iran and Iraq and they are occupying Turkey and all of us those regions around the Mediterranean they are moving westward which is exactly what happened how they expanded their empire or their kingdom now after that comes a male goat and he says that's the kingdom of Greece interesting and he is moving eastward that means from Greece he is moving in the other direction and he went all the way so there was a very prominent goat horn horn represents a leader which was Alexander the Great and he moved all the way he came up all the way to India so from Greece he moved eastward he overpowered the ram that is the Medes and the Persians I will pause here we will get into the details of chapter 8 next class so take some time to read chapter 8 and look at all the details because here we see he is talking about Alexander the Great he talks about his 4 generals who came after him he talks about the fact that Alexander the Great died very suddenly that's in verse 8 and then he tells us where the antichrist will come from he says in verse 9 he tells us where the little horn will come from a lot of additional details here in Daniel 8 which we will get into next week okay alright let's close and we will please take a break and I will see you in the next class okay thank you everyone God bless see you soon thank you messengers see you