 Well, what does the river want? What does the soil want? To take the point of view of a non-human being, that's kind of radical because the old story in The Guides of Science said that soil, water, rivers, mountains, clouds, they don't have a full degree of beingness. If they have any at all, they're just a bunch of stuff. And so to ask that question is quite radical and it's kind of returned to the worldview that Indigenous people had and still have in many parts of the world. They understood that other beings are in fact beings and that it's nonsense to communicate with them, to ask what they want.