 Thank you all for being here. As she said, my name is Kevin Owars, and the general manager of Re-Leaders, where we have a global publication. It's on newsstands, on your way out of SFO, and then we also have a Impact CEO Collaborative. So I help moderate forums on a monthly basis with Impact, Dory, to grow with minded CEOs. So today, we have a few of these Impact stars up here, and we'll get to the introductions in just one bit, but I think Jensen did a pretty good job of kind of teaming this up. I want us to all just stop and pause real quick and kind of rethink what this is. This is not just a panel. Once you kind of think about this, just being like a giant reactor with lots of Impact CEOs, investors, ideas, experiences. And what I want you to do is think about what is going to make this session a 10? Think about that question, and we're gonna come back to you afterward. The people in this room are gonna collide together and really change your experience here at this session and throughout the rest of this conference. So this is a reactor, a room for engagement here today, and we have terrific guests with us today. Our first guest, give a quick round of applause for Indeedy Wunelli, the founder of African Food Changemakers, her second panel of the day. We also have Antonio Nuno, the founder and CEO of Someone Somewhere, a round of applause for Antonio, and last but not least, Sylvia Demiti, also an investment officer at US International Development Finance Corporation, and formally, if I'm not mistaken, with the Impact Investing at Chorus International. Round of applause. And today, we talked before this to make sure that this session was valuable and there are really three main parts. The first part, we're gonna go into how we're all defining the value chain and kinda how we see it from our own experiences. We'll then go into esoteric insights, what's unique to these individuals, why are they up here, and lastly, actionable items and things that you can also take home as well. So Sylvia, first one over to you. When you think about value chain investments, how do you define it and what is your experience? Sure, hi everyone. So I'd say conceptually, it's fairly nascent and so there aren't necessarily any standard sort of well-defined definitions for it, but operationally, people have been investing in value chains for a very long time. I think the investments in value chains we've seen have led to significant growth in those value chains and efficiency, but that has also not necessarily resulted in increased incomes for the small scale producers that supply to those value chains and or the low income workers that work in those value chains. And so for me, value chain investing is really an intentional impact focus where we are investing in value chains in ways that will increase the incomes of the producers that supply to those value chains and or the low income workers that work along those value chains. So much of my work in value chains has focused on agricultural value chains and specifically small holder agricultural value chains, coffee and cocoa in particular. And so if we take the coffee value chain for example, multi-billion dollar industry, the specialty coffee association says that about 60% of coffee is grown on small scale farms, less than five hectares each farm. And many of those farmers are living in poverty. And so you have an industry that is growing rapidly and yet the suppliers of that industry, of the primary product of that industry are living in poverty. And so an intentional impact focus looks at how can we invest in businesses that are designed to increase the incomes of those farmers and to do so in ways that are environmentally sustainable because coffee again, to look at the coffee value chain specifically, there are predictions that in 2050, about 50% of the land that is used for coffee farming today will no longer be suitable because of rising temperatures. And so we need to intentionally focus one on increasing the incomes of the workers in that industry but also doing so in ways that are environmentally sustainable because for the long term, both economically and then environmentally, it's not sustainable. So for me that's the way that I look at value chain investing. Thanks for sharing. Antonio, how about yourself, value chain investing? What's your experience? How do you incorporate it? So well, I'll start quickly with what we do at someone somewhere. We are a brand that helps large companies transform their supply chains of textile products in particular so that they can involve a sustainable materials and also indigenous communities in the manufacturing of materials and final products. So from our perspective, value chain investment is also how corporations look at their value chain and an insight that I think is very important is most companies that make any type of product, maybe if they have a philanthropic site, they donate one or 2% of the revenues but they spend maybe 50, 60% of the revenues procuring things. So how you make decisions of procurement to try to have more environmental or social impact or both at the same time ideally can be a very interesting lens and could end up having significantly more impact and long term impact than just the philanthropic side of your company. So I think that's a good angle to think of it. Thank you Antonio and indeedy. Now with African food change makers, obviously serial entrepreneur, how do you think about the value chain and maybe a little bit more about African food change makers? Thank you so much. So I wear a number of hats in the food and agriculture landscape first being a co-founder of a food company called Ace Foods and then co-founder of a consulting firm called Sahel Consulting and then African food change makers. And through these three hats, I've recognized that many of us have been working on what we call wicked problems for a long time. Getting very jaded because we haven't looked at it from a value chain lens. And I'll use my example. In the food ecosystem in Nigeria, in the dairy sector in particular, we have the fourth largest cattle herd in Africa and yet we're one of the largest importers of dry milk into the region, mostly from the Netherlands, from New Zealand and the list goes on. And when we started working in dairy, we realized the same challenge. Many times we just invest in one piece of the value chain without looking at it from farm to farm to say, where are the problems? So we designed a program called Advancing Local Dairy Development in Nigeria, which is really a value chain transformation initiative. You can't just work on improving the productivity of cows in Nigeria. So artificial insemination is one investment area, but then you need fodder. So who is investing in fodder? We had to kickstart a whole fodder initiative so the cows don't have to travel for feed. What about vet care? Oh, that's a new industry. And then what about the milk collection and the logistics so that the processes get milk every day all the way to the policy and the industry association incubating them and bringing the central bank, the Ministry of Trade, the Ministry of Finance, all together to have a cohesive policy for dairy. Then you start seeing change happen. Or too often we sit in one piece, oh, I'm gonna do seed systems, oh, I'm gonna do processing and we don't fix the ecosystem. And unless the ecosystem is efficient and effective, lives cannot be changed. Both consumers who need cheaper milk and access to more nutritious milk products all the way down to the farmer who needs the better livelihoods. And so my take away after these 25 years working international development is that if we don't invest in value chains and fixing every bottleneck and working cohesively with investors, policy makers and stakeholders, we're not gonna see the changes we need as quickly as we do to improve the lives. So that's my big take away. I'll talk about African food changing makers later. Thanks. You know, it's really interesting. You guys all have like a different perspective and whether it's access to a first world market or the work that you're doing investment in Africa also with the advanced ecosystem. I say like the major theme, maybe the through line are those ecosystems, the role that collaboration plays with all of these main players in the value chain. Wanna go back to you and we'll work our way that way. What is the role of collaboration that you've seen and how have you seen it improve over the years in your experience? And that's why I started African food change makers because so many of us are working in isolation. I was working on a book called Food Entrepreneurs on Africa Scaling Resilient Agriculture Businesses. And as I traveled around because all the initiatives I had started were struggling to scale, I realized entrepreneurs in the cocoa sector and did not know each other in Cote d'Ivoire and the big players in Ethiopia, in coffee, didn't know each other. So I basically said, we need to create a movement. Our vision is a million entrepreneurs that have built scaled businesses that not only nourish Africa but change global narratives about Africa. From the face of Africa being a hungry child to a successful female entrepreneur. So what do we do? We provide data, funding, training, access to markets, a one-stop shop for food and ag entrepreneurs to enable them to scale. Has it been easy? No, it sounds very nice on face of... Many people say, well, you know what? Do I trust you? Can't you like join? That's one, building trust. The second is offering a free service because most entrepreneurs are not willing to pay to join a community. So our vision was DevEx, Facebook and LinkedIn for ag and food entrepreneurs to enable the scaling. So it's a free service. And yet finding the entrepreneurs who stay the course. And then we've had to design and proprietary training programs so we can scale. So we've done an e-learning course on greening your business, on exporting, on gender lens investing, et cetera, et cetera. But it's not been as easy as I thought. So scaling has been the biggest challenge of this community. And so what does that lead me to believe? That when we think about solving some problems, oftentimes most people come on our portal for funding. Most entrepreneurs say they want funding, but they don't want the training that goes with it because they don't have the time. Or they want access to markets, but they don't want you to vet them so closely before they have access to market. So we're learning and on learning some of the initiatives, but we're also understanding that there is power in community. And for those who get involved, they're benefiting 10x. And so it's that initial hurdle that is the biggest barrier. So I am all for collaboration, but I've realized that it's not as easy because of egos, logos, and trust. And in our ecosystem and food in particular, we have to rebuild trust because trust has been broken through a number of players, especially the relationship between large private sector and smallholder farmers, et cetera. And fixing that trust takes time, takes funding, takes special capital, and takes a long-term commitment. Absolutely, it changes slow, right? And change really moves at the rate of trust. Antonio, question for you now. You've already provided over 10 million products to a lot of large partners. When you think about collaboration with these big brands, Delta Airlines, Accenture, Google, maybe share with our audience how those collaborations came about and the benefits of working with those large partners. Sure. So more and more companies are focusing energy on changing their supply chains into more sustainable and more impactful options, but they need to do it at a very big scale. So what is starting to be clearer to them is that one of the most sustainable ways of doing things is with artisans because the materials they use come from nature. They use very little electricity, water, et cetera. So from the start is a very sustainable way of doing things. And they usually start very scared of the scalability. It's very counter-intuitive that you can make millions of products with people that work with their hands. The key here is that there are a lot of artisans. There are 300 million artisans around the world and they are all looking for opportunities and they have the skills. They've been doing this for decades so they really know how to do their products. So the key is how do you collaborate and help artisans organize in cooperatives and then those cooperatives into larger groups and also how those larger groups can source materials in a better and more scalable way. And for companies, little by little becomes a very easy way of changing their supply chains because relatively quickly they can move from a traditional model where they make maybe a lot of things in Asia with virgin plastic to empowering women in rural communities and using recycled materials. And once with us with these companies, always the first order, they tell you like we are praying for this to work. The moment things arrive to their door, they start looking like, okay, what else can I change to do in this way because it's clear how the impact is so powerful and it's gonna help me reach my goals of maybe carbon neutrality, diversity, et cetera. So yeah, I think it's a very large and unique source of potential production and the keys how to create the right collaborations across the board to make it work. Follow-up question for you. Why are they switching to working with artisans with you and why are they switching from, say, manufacturers in China and somewhere else? I would say it's usually two things. Sustainability, but with the companies we work, it's clear their customers are the main stakeholder asking for it. So usually it's companies with a younger customer base or wanting to reach a younger customer base and they quickly realize like this segment once more sustainable and impactful products and they are becoming more and more critical about these things. So that pressure is usually the first reason to start working with us. The other one, it's maybe more, in our case, lucky, is that a lot of companies want to nearsure. They want to move away from producing in very far countries and reduce the geopolitical risk and the cost of logistics and the environmental impact of logistics. So Mexico becomes a very obvious partner. So if they are able to move from that type of production to a closer location while also changing to a more sustainable way of doing things, that's what creates enough reasons for them to make this switch. Interesting, but it wouldn't make sense with what Ndidi was saying too, with the cattle being produced and why are they still importing from the Netherlands and other nations? I'm curious, with the FDC and your work, when you think about collaboration, Sylvia, where do you see the bottlenecks in your work? So I'll just start by saying, but for the purposes of this discussion, I'm mostly focused on my previous role, which is why you brought it up as an investor with Ground Up Investing, which did under a million dollar ticket sizes in smallholder agriculture value chains. So I'll give an example of one of the investments that we made in 2017. We invested in a coffee production company operating in Eastern Uganda. The coffee company was organic certified as were its farmers. And as a result of the organic certification, the farmers received a premium over market price for the organic certification. But this is rural Eastern Uganda and the mountain tops. There isn't necessarily a ready market for organic inputs. And so the farmers were not using fertilizers, but they weren't using anything, which meant that over time, their soils were being depleted and continually depleted. So on the one hand, you're addressing the income issue, but then you're not necessarily addressing the sustainability of their farms. And so it wasn't a company they could call up and say, oh, could you guys come in and provide organic fertilizers to our farmers? And so the company had to decide, okay, how do we do this? And so they started using byproducts from their processing to develop their own organic inputs to supply. But that required knowledge that the company didn't have. So they partnered with university institutions. They partnered with other service providers to understand what would it take to bring that product to the farmers. Another thing that the farmers lacked was financing, but convincing a bank to start providing financing to rural farmers on the mountain tops of Uganda. Again, it's cost prohibitive, like nobody wants to do that, but this company is already engaging with those farmers. And so they started providing financing. But again, they aren't financiers themselves. So understanding what it would take for the company to provide that financing to those farmers was really important. So I think for me, the most successful models that I've seen involve bundling services that you provide to those farmers. And so that requires a breadth of knowledge that oftentimes entrepreneurs in themselves do not have and it requires partnering with various institutions in order to be able to understand what it takes to successfully deliver those services to those farmers. But I think doing it through a processor, for example, that is already engaging with those farmers is probably the most cost efficient way of doing so because then the cost of capital to the farmers is significantly reduced than if they were getting that same financing from another sort of MFI or a bank or something like that. So I think that's sort of what collaboration looks like in my context. Interesting. And I'd love to ask you all independently on innovation within the value chain and how you think about it. So maybe we'll start. Let's go back with Indeedy here. When you think about innovation and whether it's reducing costs or just breaking down that value chain, how does one assess that in your field? How have you seen it done very well? So I think innovation addresses two major bottlenecks we have in value chains. Number one is information asymmetry. So why some value chains are purposely opaque? Is that so nobody, the customer, it's actually designed to be opaque so that somebody's making money throughout the value chain. And so innovation for me, and that's what we need in most of our value chains, is transparency and accountability so that every stakeholder, especially the most vulnerable and the weakest in the chain don't get taken advantage of. And we're starting to see a little more transparency in some value chains than others. So I'll use a few examples. I mean, that's why you're seeing the whole concept of using AI to track an avocado from Kenya to the shelves of London to be able to say, can we track who is getting what across the value chain? When I first used this basket of tomato in Nigeria, in Canoe at the time, the basket of tomato was 300 Naira. By the time it came to Lagos, sometimes it's up to 30,000 Naira. So from the farmer to the end of the consumer, who is me sitting in Lagos, I'm paying so much more. And so that transparency and accountability and digital tools that enable it are an innovation. But the challenge is the cost of the digital tools. So for many small value chains, it doesn't make sense to have that tracking and to have that transparency and accountability because of the cost. I would love to see a lot more innovation around reducing the cost for traceability and removing the barriers for that data to flow. The second is really where I would love help from the audience. So I've been very focused with African food change makers on changing the narrative of Africa from a hungry child to a successful female entrepreneur. And one way to do that is to get African products on global shelves. I've looked at how the Japanese made sushi number one. There's traceability with sushi. In 20 years, sushi went from being a novelty to being mainstream. In fact, cool, it's cool. But every grocery store in America now has a sushi section. It was deliberate. It was strategic. And the Ministry of Trade in Japan used to actually trace tuna from Japan and authenticated to say it's authentically Japanese, which is really interesting, so back to the traceability. But there's a demand side component, which is storytelling. And we started creating stories about African food. You have a sesame bun, a bagel. That sesame is probably from Sudan. When you think of Sudan, you think of a war-torn country. But it produces 40% of the world's sesame, for example. Or you have a chocolate bar. It must be Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire. So it starts changing your image of these countries. I love chocolate. That must be from this country. How can we change narratives? And this is where we need media in our collaborations. And when we think about venture and impact, we never think about the demand side and the role of the media in telling positive stories about food and using food as a way to build bridges, build respect, build appreciation. And I'd love to partner with others who are passionate about this, because we can do everything on the supply side. But unless we address the demand side, for many of our value chains, we're never going to see the impact that we expect. Interesting. And certainly, Doug tells into what Antonio was saying earlier about big brands wanting to communicate that impact. I guess that's what their consumers are demanding. Tony, you have a very simple and unique model of how corporations can do that. Would you maybe explain to the audience how you help them reimagine their products? Yeah. So I think in our side, there's also an AI component, but probably different than in most cases. In this AI revolution, what most people have seen is the, like chat GPT or language models, but in the graphical world, there's also a lot of innovation. So when this started to happen, we realized we had thousands and thousands of images of products made by communities, like fabrics, techniques, et cetera. So what we are doing is we are combining all of that data with these AI tools for design or for graphics creation. And very easily and quickly, we can show any brand or company how their products would look like if they change how they make them. And that makes the conversation way faster and easier because instead of like a text, we literally send them a hundred products they could be making tomorrow if they change how they approach this. And with that, you really literally know how many people inside the company have seen the images. And that sparks usually the interest. And once there's interest, it's way easier because you can tell the story, you can show them the potential. And the other focus in the innovation side that we are right now putting a lot of effort on is more in circularity. In the textile world, what happens is, whatever product you make, eventually their life finishes, but the product still exists. And a lot of these very large companies waste a lot or eventually have to throw away a lot of textile things. So we are working with them to re-input those fabric scraps, use products, transform them again into threads and in the communities, create new fabrics for the same products and keep the loop. So that helps with sustainability and storytelling, but also now our raw materials are becoming free. They are giving them to us for free and it's allowing us to become cost-neutral or even more affordable than their previous option. And when we reach cost-neutrality or even savings, now it becomes a no-brainer and that's when we can start pouring a lot of opportunities to a lot of these communities. Incredible. And so I'm gonna try and topdale this one in to you. Now, smallholder farmers, producer, I think it's around like 90% of the world's produce yet only get paid a blow if not a little above minimum wage. You talked about resources being a big part of that collaboration, helping them get off the ground. Could you maybe provide some examples for other investors who are in this space about what actual resources helped increase capital connections, experiences, tools, technology, things like that? So I think on technology specifically starting with that, I would say one, it has to make sense for a small-scale farmer in rural wherever they're operating and I think sometimes we sort of put a bunch of technology and say, okay, this is gonna fix all the issues, but does it actually make sense for any of those farmers to adopt that technology? And not just technology, but sort of better farming practices or whatever you can think of that would improve productivity of the farms. Does it actually make sense for them? Is it more work for them? Is it more, and if it doesn't make sense for them, then they're not going to adopt it. And the way it makes most sense to them if they're incentivized. So are you going to pay me more for my product if I put in this extra effort, if I use this technology? And if you're not gonna do that, then it doesn't necessarily make sense for a farmer that's earning below-living wage to do those things. So I think when we think about technology, there's great ideas and great technology and great practices and all these things, but you have to sort of think about what does it look like for a rural farmer that's earning below-living income to adopt those things and how do you actually make it make sense for those farms? How do you incentivize the adoption of that technology or the adoption of those improved practices? I think that's an important piece of it because there's been a proliferation of technology that has been introduced to small-scale farmers and very little of it has actually been adopted. And so thinking about really, I don't know, human-centered design perhaps is what it is. Think putting yourself in the shoes of a small-scale farmer and figuring out what makes sense for a rural farmer in the middle of a mountain top in Uganda to adopt a certain technology that you think would change the productivity of their farms. Very helpful. Well, thank you all for sharing unique experiences and I guess into insights to how you were going about the value chain in your business. Now, just we kind of prepared a little bit before. What actual insight maybe for the audience today that they can walk away with? Let's start with Indeedia and Tonya and then follow up with Sylvia. Well, if I could leave you with one message, it's really that for whatever sector you're in, it makes sense to partner with others in that sector to really look at what the bottlenecks are in that value chain and which unusual actors need to be brought to the table to address those bottlenecks for long-term sustainability. I know many of us are in legacy mode. I say legacy mode, meaning we're thinking about what will happen when we leave this space and what change we would have been remembered for. And I think because of these wicked problems, I often challenge myself to say, how can I make sure 10 years from now we're not here talking about the same problems? And we keep on going round in circles because we can't look at the value chain. So my challenge is please bring unusual actors into the room and look at it from farm to fork. For every sector, education, health, whatever it is, the same challenges you're experiencing have to be solved. And they are partners who you need to work hand in hand with you to do that. So you have to leave your egos and logos at the door and work with humility and excellence. Well said, Antonio. I would say too, one is this concept of the amount of money spent in procurement is significantly larger than in most of other things. And large companies are starting to do it not because they want to appear campaign, but because customers are starting to really demand it. So the opportunity there is growing very quickly and could be an amazing avenue to generate a lot of social and environmental impact. And the other around for philanthropic money, one idea that may be very interesting to explore is and if you want to be part of this value chain world, we are starting to see more examples where philanthropic money, instead of being used for random projects, is used to or it's added to procurement. So maybe a product that has impact may cause 10% more than a normal product. And we are working with a lot of companies where their phylandropic capital is used for that 10%. And it ends up having or catalyzing 10 times more budget because the procurement budget comes in together. So I feel that could be a very powerful model to allow social enterprises in particular to become part of these very big companies. And with a little bit of time, maybe one or two years, you can do what you need to do. So your cost is the same for the procurement team, but that initial amount could be very powerful in the return of investment and social return of investment. Thank you, Antonio. Sylvia, bring us home. Sure. So I would say for investors looking into value chains, finding sort of operators that have a very deep knowledge of the value chains. And I think recognizing, in particular for smallholder agriculture value chains, recognizing that those entrepreneurs will typically be solving multi-dimensional problems. And so the businesses will not necessarily be as straightforward as you might imagine, they will be doing this. And the other thing, and the other thing, which can seem too complex or too cumbersome, but recognizing that in order to actually have the impact that we're looking for, that's what's oftentimes required of those entrepreneurs. And then recognizing that in order for them to succeed, you will need to bring in collaborators, people that have expertise in other sectors and other areas that can support those businesses to successfully operate in those markets. Well, thank you all. A quick round of applause for all the panelists today. Now it's time for you and the audience. We still have a few minutes left. One of the through lines today was collaboration, right? And so what resonated with you? Okay, what resonated with you here in this discussion today? We wanna hear ideas, experiences, questions now from the audience. Yes, in the back. Hello, okay. Well, thank you all for the panel. A lot of great insights. As someone who works in marketing, needy 100% what they want to partner with you on that. And also I'm curious about building trust and what worked and what didn't work for you. I want to come to that. And also if you had any way to like garner feedback, like honest feedback with the organizations and companies you partnered with. Thank you. Yeah, it's like a few more questions as well. Just to round up the questions. Yes, right here. I get that microphone. Each share the most successful story you've had that just poster tile. Okay, how we communicate and build trust, successful story. Hello. I appreciate the shout out for human centered design because being on the ground is really key in understanding what's actually happening. And so I actually wanna push back or kind of challenge the assumption that, and wanna understand like why traceability has to be like a technology. Knowing that there might be somebody who doesn't have access to a technology. So what can work in terms of a social networks to like increase traceability? Okay, yes, one more. Thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. One thing I noticed is that all three of you work across fields that have been commoditized. So cotton can be considered just cotton. Doesn't matter where it comes from. Same thing with a lot of food products. So based on your experiences, I'm curious to hear about where you think commoditization has maybe gone too far and how you would want to, how would you want the system to address that? Thank you. All right, let's go in order. Indeedy, maybe if you could just share a little bit about trust. Excellent questions. Very difficult, the last one especially. But I would say trust is really built over time by consistent engagement and humility. I've talked a lot about humility today because in our context, human centered design, we often come and say we need, we know the solutions to people's problems. And I've learned the hard way that you don't. They have to tell you. So the first six point model in my book around scaling models that work was the first one is demand driven interventions because I realized they have to come from the community. What do they need? And even in the food ecosystem, and I can talk offline, we've seen that many times we think we know what customers want, even in the West, right? Or what African products they're gonna gravitate towards and they don't. And so it's really about asking, testing, retesting, or learning and gradually building trust. And it comes to the issue you raised about do we need technology? No, we don't. And that's why we started this community of change agents. And we have to vet you, but then your community vets you too, right? And that commitment to being part of community and doing what you say you're gonna do and doing it well consistently is key. And the good thing about food and products is that the customer gives you feedback, right? In our case, if you're not committing to the right quality control standards, the right excellence that we've all committed to, to elevate African food, then you're going to set all of us backwards. Just one mistake and all of us are set backwards. So we have to keep raising the bar. And I agree, social networks, social community is critical and that's the basis of what we do. And then the success stories. I would say that this dairy project, there's actually a Harvard Business School case study on it. It's called Advancing Local Dairy Development in Nigeria. It's worth looking at. It's been backbreaking seven years of my life, but we're starting to see impacts. And we're starting to see local companies source locally and an ecosystem that's evolving, that's creating jobs and a policy environment that supports it. So please check it out. I'm very proud of that work, but it hasn't been easy and it's taken long-term commitment from funders, long-term commitment from private sector actors, thousands of farmer families working in collaboration with a human-sensor design, learning and unlearning. But we can say that it's a success story that can be replicated in Nigeria and in other countries. Fantastic. Thank you, NDD. I'm just gonna recap the questions for you, if we can. Communication, trust building, success stories, traceability, and then the last one was around commodities. Okay, so regarding trust, I think there's no shortcut. In the end, it's being there and in our case, coming back after the first order. And I remember the first time we went to a community, we thought there would be all the village ready to receive us and there were three women there, just curious. And we took several orders to those three women so that the community was like, okay, they are for real. And eventually, there was a wait list on the door of the other artisans, but it was earning it with hard work. On the success story, I love this historical fact that it took around 100 years to break the 10 second barrier in a 100 meter race, but once that happened, it took one month for it to happen again and one week to happen again. So one example of that is one of our largest partners is Delta Airlines. We may call there a many tickets. And it's been an amazing project, like 3,000 people now have tripled their income thanks to that partnership. But what got us even more excited is that now more airlines are reaching out to replicate exactly that because now they see it's possible. So that ripple effect I think is very important. On the traceability and transparency, it's a great question. We explored blockchain, for example, but eventually realized the cost of blockchain makes it not that easy to manage in the real or with millions of products. So we realized it was more allowing people to contact directly the artisan who made their product. So all our products have a QR code and you can send a message to the exact artisan who made it and there's nothing more transparent that being able to reach out to the person who made it. And on the commodities, I think for example, cotton is a commodity, there's an index, but in sustainable materials is where a lot of the innovation is happening in terms of what exists and the costs as well. So there's a mountain of new possibilities and right now is the right moment to focus there and it's the cost right now. Like if you find smart ways to make it more affordable, it can like any company now if you give them this sustainable option for the same cost, they will change. So I think that's a good opportunity. Thank you, Antonio. Sylvia, last but not least. Sure, so I'll start with the commodity one. And it's been a question for me. So thinking about coffee, specifically coffee is definitely a commodity. A few years ago, the coffee price dropped to about $1 and it was like hit the lowest that it's been. And that dollar doesn't necessarily go directly to the farmers, it goes to an aggregator and so what's coming back to the farmers is actually a tiny percentage of that. And so there are opportunities in specialty coffee, but that requires farmers to produce a higher quality product. But understanding how to produce that higher quality product is a bunch of barriers to entry, but finding operators that are able to sort of support farmers in entering that market. But that market isn't necessarily big. So not all farmers will get in there. So how are we going to address all the farmers earning a living income? So I think what we found is diversification is really important. So supporting farmers to enter into new crops and to introducing small animals into their farms so that their farms are more diverse and they're able to supply perhaps to the specialty coffee market, but also to other markets so that they can earn a living income from that. But yeah, the commodity question is a big one. And then I think in terms of success stories, I would say for us it's still early stages for the companies that we've invested in, but there's very many promising models. And as I mentioned earlier, the most promising ones that I've seen have been those that are really bundling services that they're providing to those farmers so that you have one operator that is providing multiple services. And I think both in terms of the resilience of sort of the farmers accessing a host of products, but also the resilience of those companies, but also financially having multiple business lines helps with the resilience of those companies. So if they're providing financing, the margins on their finance business might be higher than the margins on the process in business or the other business. And so for the business itself, providing this sort of suite of services also offers them some more financial sort of resilience and potential to be more sustainable long-term. Trying to think of what the other question was. It was one about trust. I would say consistency, especially working in smallholder farmers who are engaging with maybe it's multinational companies or all sorts of things happening in those markets. There is quite a bit of mistrust and opaqueness as indeed you mentioned. And so I think being a consistent, consistently showing up in those contexts and providing sort of transparent services is really important in those spaces to build trust with small scale farmers and to build trust with entrepreneurs as well, thinking of it from an investor perspective. And then to the question on transparency, I agree like technology is great, but implementing it in practice in some of these contexts is very, very difficult. And so things that I've seen is where they aren't smartphones using SMSs for farmers to provide information as opposed to sort of an app that they would have to do it. So there are ways to adapt these things, but it requires really understanding what's going on and then figuring out what makes sense for the people in that context.