 Thank you all for coming today. Thank you all for this opportunity for the organizers and thank you to the Linux Foundation for making this happen So my name is Daniel Izquierdo. I'm as thank you Anna for the introduction I'm currently holding a position well recently appointed as CEO of Viteria and part of a couple of communities chaos and the inner source commons as well so today this is more like an open conversation about the you know there are different ways of measuring success and In from the Ospo perspective from the Ospo point of view in open source in general and this is more like an open discussion with you I mean, so indeed if you have any question while I'm giving the talk feel free to interrupt me and we can we can have this discussion So this was me basically when the organizers said hey You have this is loud for today's idea. Finally after one year and a half It's like in person meeting so it's really great to see you all here all the faces and you know Hacks and people if you feel comfortable with so yeah, so let's start with this again Thank you. Thank you for coming a bit of background for for today Not historical because all of this is quite recent but in general we've been discussing about different flavors of Oscar Right, so we have also plus class that we have here Jacob if you are you have for the conversation So for universities governments and civic institutions. We have also some that recently started fostered by the Eclipse Foundation like which is a the Ospo Alliance platform for serving and promoting more class materials and good governments for Open source pro and offices and then of course we have the to-do group which is our host today, so thank you again for for your time and for your people resources and great organization and Well, we have a great guidelines and websites and resources in general So if we think about Ospo That's again my personal opinions who we have like the wall right of between indoors and outdoors and in indoors Basically, this is the everything that happens within the corporation, you know business as usual So we have the marketing team. We have development there. We have developers. We have legal We have well all of these departments and then outdoors is the rest of the world, right? So there are companies in open source that they are just consuming so they are simply Using the software. They have of course their their risk analysis for the supply chain and everything and open source is part of this analysis But they are just consuming software There are others that are well consuming software and then well producing just contributing bugs in some cases doesn't really need to be Only software as we discussed before right so maybe it's it's knowledge is resources in terms of events is meetups is Conferences this one then we have others that are consuming and producing in Similar way like well, we are we are part of an open source community But blah blah and then there are others where this line simply doesn't exist So it's like really transparent, right? So it's like well, we are working in In the open in the same way that we are working internally It comes to my mind for instance the fox of get lab that they have even the good lab handbook with But where everything is there their strategy marketing, etc. etc. Is there is public? So is how they are working and everything is of this is public, right? So there there is no such line in terms of saying does it make sense to have an Ospo in get lab? Maybe they have I don't know but probably doesn't make sense. It's like this is this is not a wall We want to have between developers and and the rest of the world Of course, there are there are a lot of things you can do outdoors or you can do indoors, right? So if we can think about the the goal of an Ospo outdoors, we can think of reputation talent attraction, you know use perhaps other type of tools this open source communities might be a good place to to look for innovation to Learn from others to have some common place where you can discuss about other technologies and things in reality It's about being cost-effective and there are other things of course and then if you think about indoors What are the services that an Ospo is providing and somehow we can think of well This is a central place to organize all of the open source related things. So this is about licenses It's about training advice, you know, a lot of things that we see for instance in the previous in the previous Presentation, thank you by the way It's about creating workflows so people feel safe to contribute and consume open source and people means any of the departments So we need to talk to lawyers probably right So lawyers need to feel comfortable with this process consuming and using open source. We need to talk to To meet their managers. We need to talk to product owners. We need to to talk to business people, right? So all of them need to be aware that this is happening. So all of this is part of the Ospo This is basically what we are doing and then it's it's basically it's about fostering this open source culture that we were discussing maybe with through inner source, maybe directly moving people to the to the open with certain training to To work in the open. Well, there are some other things. So there are in reality a lot of a Lot of stuff. I'm going quite quick is because I'm between you and the coffee. So that's all So I think here and today's presentation is mainly about discussing Metrics or how to measure success in in the case of Ospo And the question maybe that they have for you is what is your business goal when you are building an Ospo? So we saw that we have several several flavors, right? If we if we think about an academia, we have we think about an university Building an Ospo. Well, the goal of university probably is to contribute back to society To produce knowledge in terms of, you know, academic papers and so on. It's about producing Maybe software that they can contribute if we think about large organizations initially with for profit Then the purpose is a bit different. It's about Maybe becoming more attractive to developers. So then there is certain talent attraction talent world out there, right? So then This is maybe the reason why they are building an Ospo in some more cases because they started to consume open source And it's not clear to the company how to become a good open source citizen So there are several things and depending on the flavor that we have Maybe we we are a small company or a medium company Just the concept of having an Ospo is something probably that you cannot even afford, right? From the company perspective. So what what does it mean for a medium-sized company to be an Ospo? So that's that's totally different depending on the flavor. We are we want to have in our ice cream, right? If we focus in the case of the to-do group about the goals and how to measure Well success and some of them common things that are part of the guidelines by the way So this is you have here the to-do group.org slash guides slash measuring We have some goals that were defined as common goals. So this is a really good starting point in the end in it so we have One of them is about being efficient and compliant use of open source software because compliance is something Something really really important in the case of the Ospo There are specific discussion around the topic of increasing developer Productivity about you know having a having a more homogeneous way of producing software between outdoors and indoors This is a this is about create and grow open source projects because maybe your company has donated several pieces of software to the outside Maybe to the Linux foundation or some other foundations. Maybe it's about recruiting or having a proper Policy and strategy around retaining developers because developer retention is Another hot topic in large corporations as well is something to deal with right It's about promoting open source culture is maybe a line open source community interest and business interest as well So there are different goals that we can we can think of Now I'm bringing this claimer here so Victoria we are providing commercial services So this is based on on experiences that I can bring to the discussion today These are all our goals that we we have when we are discussing and this is this is part of the initial step that the first time We sit down with someone is like Okay, what of these main goals are you trying to achieve are you trying to follow impact? Are you trying to follow to be more open? Maybe to grow maybe to have certain influence in the open source ecosystem It's about Being the leader in this in the communities that matter to you. So what what is this about right? And then it's like this card game where we are star Playing cards and then the the person in front of us say well, I'm really interested in impact I may be interested in engagement I'm interested in this and that and then this is the place where we are start discussing about about more things so What what I'd like to to say here to to define it somehow is that there is There is of course room for improvement and with with all of us here in this room and everyone involved in in Ospo Understanding and and and discussing around open source. I think we are a good great team of folks that we can advance into this understanding and And these are simply other point of view that we can bring into into the discussion beyond for instance the the other common goals That we saw before from the from the to-do group So You are an Ospo man. I heard this is probably your daily life all of your faces, right? So it's like oh, I'm frustrated today, but then I need all I was happy because someone told me this then I don't Understand you I don't get I don't have the time and well, there are several faces right of you probably around the day So and why why I'm telling this because we saw before like the Ospo idea of this is my Corporation goal. This is what we discussed before right now. This is about the Ospo manager So what is your personal goal becoming an Ospo or an Ospo manager? So first you have your objectives like maybe you are measured by oki arts or something like this The thing is that beyond those probably you have your personal idea personal career where we were just like to be right? So you have all the goals in terms of the open source ecosystem. Maybe become a Familiar phase in the in the open source world Maybe become someone that really want to move forward into the open source way of working within the corporation So there are there are different motivations here, right? And you are facing you are wearing several hats so probably The hardest one is about having this political background hat like you need to Discuss internally with all of the people around from the different departments just to make some things happen, right? And this is about political hat, but then it's about Being a good marketer in some house. So you need to say this is happening in the corporation So he please join join us for for this celebration because we we donated our first open source project or so So there are there are different hats, right and and the goals of each of these hats are Probably different from the goals of the corporation because you as open source program manager Maybe don't care that much in the short term But the retention of the developers in the rest of the corporation But that's probably one of the goals of the corporation in this case So there are now we need to balance goals, right? So it's not the same the people that are kind of executing than the long-term goals of the of the corporation So we have two phases here And then if we do certain recap we did some intro to open source program offices flavors or academia Medium-sized companies large corporations the open source program office Goals itself like retention talent attraction, etc The Ospo manager and then there are other internal stakeholders because as you as you mentioned So you were you were discussing like we don't want them to be part of the Ospo We want them to be advanced ambassadors, right? So we want them to spread the word around a this is happening So this is this is how you should behave in the case of Ospo and all of these Internal stakeholders they have other motivations. So for instance if you are a developer advocate The way you should measuring the success of the Ospo is totally different that the Ospo itself And it's probably different than the Ospo manager So these are this is the concept of this talk about the many phases of measuring Ospo's access because there are many different stakeholders and people around Let's let's focus a bit on each of them. How was the time going? Good time So we said there are different goals depending on the Ospo you are academic institutions Maybe large corporations medium-sized companies Totally different and of course depending on the vertical you are if you are working in banking as we've seen at the open-source strategy forum This last couple of days different goals that we are talking about logistics or pharmaceutical They are not they are somehow related but not that much related and It's totally different if we are thinking about highly regulated environments or not Then we are large corporations medium-sized company the Ospo goals Of course the different Ospo's the different companies they have different goals if we think about impact and influence and We try to make this definition right now Probably we have five six ten definitions right and this heavily depends as well and even on your skills Because if you think about for instance my background is computer science So if I think about impact, maybe I think about impact in the sense of advancing the product itself Maybe the this is the piece of sober if we think about marketing maybe from the marketing perspective It's about having more community members or more leads to the to the to the community or to the project If we think from the executive point of view, maybe it's about Bringing more people on board or maybe having a faster onboarding process for developers to the company. So impact Means definitely totally different. So vocabulary having a standard set of of nomenclature vocabulary Common verbs common common usage is is key as well. So it's about, you know raising the That these differences are happening and having a clear, you know a scenario that everyone understands and so on is It's definitely key for the success of the Ospo in this case The different hats we discuss about this and probably for each of the hats you may have different Metrics or KPIs even you may have different point of view. Even if we if we change, right? There is a change in the in the Ospo manager That person will bring will bring a different point of view and this is just different So the goals will be slightly different probably, right? And then the different stakeholders so we can think of community managers developer advocates business people right product teams marketing so there are there are a bunch of people out there that are part of the Ospo ecosystem in somehow and That we all need to align and work together with a common vision and mission But all of them are looking for different goals, right? So then they are measuring success in all of these different ways Good. So let's think about community managers. Let's think about business and so on So this is an example of the CNCF ecosystem. This this is a two three years old Analysis so what you see the the pink dots here the the small pink dots around here are developers And then they they have contributed to a specific project if there is an edge between the dot and the and the blue square, right? So then it happens that there are developers that have been participating in more than one community So if we see Kubernetes at the end, there is there are several lines Linking to other projects. So that means that this developer has been participating in Kubernetes and other project great so then this is like the The the shape of the CNCF ecosystem in somehow well two three years ago again So if we think about this from an open source from the from the Linux foundation perspective probably all of these connections All of these people around means Success because what they are saying is like the whole picture like this is great because we have built this We have all of these people working together. We have all of this company and individuals Building something right? So it's like everyone is working together in not in a in a chaotic way and and doing this Producing CNCF, which is a really successful ecosystem or or prayer if we think from the Community manager perspective, maybe what we are interested in is just in some of the dots because maybe we are now fostering the idea of Well, we want to really on board newcomers. So who are the newcomers? So maybe we can color some of the dots as newcomers and linking Across, you know, so you may have a newcomer and these newcomers started in in Kubernetes And then you saw that these newcomers started to talk to to send to some of the developers and it happens that you know Some of them so then you use those connections as a community manager to reach out to this person and say hey Welcome to the community. I know you've been working with this and this person So hope they you know, you've you've had a really good First steps mentoring or so and as a community manager, you are trying to do your goals are different Just using the same the same use case the same analysis or visualization, right? From a from a foundation perspective again Maybe if your interest is about having more members joining the ecosystem It's this is really really great because the more people you have here the more companies that might be Potentially members of the of the foundation and help advance into the mission of CNCF this case So again depending on the hat and just with the same Visualization or kind of metric you may have different point of view. This means different things for different people, okay? Yeah, so some lessons learned the existing literature, I would say it's great. So I'm specifically Referring to the to-do group guidelines There's always room for improvement. I know this is really easy to say and hard to move forward This is why I I say give we if we see or we agree in that there is this room for improvement would be great to Work all together as Anna mentioned at the very beginning and be able to you know across all of the different flavors of Ospo be able to to build something together to advance into the understanding of usage and adoption and production of open source from a corporate perspective from academic perspective and from other ones And I would say beyond the the first steps provided by the by a to-do group this initial discovery phase with the Self-reflection right about so these are the important topics. We are trying to achieve So what are your business goals specifically in the corporation and try to match those business goals in? Into specific questions or metrics that's something to definitely to have further discussion Because what we've seen in some cases is that people start measuring things for the pleasure of measuring things because they can From a technical perspective and then you realize that whatever you were measuring is not that aligned with the goal or the business goal that you were following So now what right? So have we have we been wasting our time or so? Well, no, but we need to do this matching in somehow More things business goals are definitely different From project goals an example here if you're aware of the of the chaos community This is the acronym for community health analytics for open source software. It's a Linux foundation project We are we are part of it as well. We are contributors While chaos is mainly focused on understanding project health On uncertain topics in the case of the to-do group. Maybe this is a much more corporate focus, right? So sometimes business Thus doesn't really need to be aligned with community or prayer or whatever it means for prayer health, right? So maybe from a business perspective, you are interested in being the technical leader of that community being the They really have really great influence in the project from a prayer health perspective having a more diverse set of You know individuals or companies might be better than the other approach So sometimes these balances is it's hard to have More things I have the feeling that the current guidelines are not that focused on medium enterprises Just because of the resources so a large corporation can afford definitely to have, you know Different people for instance, but we saw before like the team We have a team of six seven people not full-time, but working together, right? And with with a common mission maybe from a medium-sized enterprise or small enterprise is harder So what are the next the first steps for a small company willing to use or produce over in a safe way? So that's something probably to discuss from the Ospo perspective as well And then from a metrics perspective, I would say and this is a useful sentence, right? The whole is that is greater than the sum of the office parts and specifically what they mean with this is that some of the metrics that we see in the to-do group are mainly focused on One type of contribution one type of data source for instance like number of commits or number of pull requests or number of issues But if we aggregate everything so all of the data source into one place then you can start thinking about Contributors and it's not a contributor focused on git repositories or initiatives or pull request is a contributor that is participating across all of the data sources that are part of the project and probably from from the perspective of the Participant and bringing new cameras to the community that the definition of contributors is the key one instead of focusing just on one of the you know parts And then another another thing is From an open source perspective probably about lesson learn or recommendation is trust the tools in your supply chain that you can Definitely check so the recommendation would be if you are making specific decisions on data Be sure that you understand the technology that is behind this data For this I would say chaos is a really good place that you can You can learn from because all of the knowledge and tools are specifically open source There are other solutions out there. They are not perhaps open source of think of The kind of data that you are using to make decisions because well definitely if those tools are open source This is something that you can track and you can trace in somehow the data So how the data is being provided to you so how you are gathering and enriching and visualizing that information So it's something that you can trace over time because you are going to make from an Ospo perspective big decisions based on data So at least be sure that the data is it's something that you can trace in somehow either maybe you are Developing this internally so that you have access to the code so that that would be Inner source in this case or internal open code we can say but Well some some some comments here that we can discuss later Definitely just as a way of finishing today, so you are not alone remember we have Ospo plus plus We have Ospo some we have the to-do group. We have this meeting so we can all discuss together In addition to these I wanted to bring three specific communities, which is chaos one of them that chaos.community the url or community health analytics for open source software It works for inner source as well most of the cases you just need to make certain translations basically the metrics works What doesn't work are they are the goals? Then specifically Grimoire lab will see now some some examples And then the idea is well This is a free open source tool and then in and source commons that will have our summit by the way on the 17th of November, so you are more than welcome to join the Unfortunately, they call the call for papers already closed But if you are interested in in being part of a breakout session lead some of them would be great So let's discuss later Specifically in the case of Grimoire lab. There are some Use cases out of the box if you in case you are interested I'll go through them really quick because Anna is looking at the Time now Contributors growth this this idea of contributors you can so think of in with a big picture This is the evolution of the contributors over time So then you can check the for it for all of the data sources like channels get have Maybe you have you're using it lab from a no-spot perspective probably you have an interest in in Different projects coming from different data sources and from different open source foundation So all of them all of these think of having one place central as players where you have all of these insights And somehow attraction and retention rate demographics the retention for how long can the developers retain in the project How are the new the new? Cameras joining the project how fast and etc. Etc. Solver like cycle So what are the projects? What are the most important in terms of? Contributions and contributors so there are a bunch of use cases that you can go into Grimoire lab And check this there is another project by the way is called or what is is mostly focused on So it has another Bunch of data sources, but but adding a machine learning interface as far as I remember maybe don't you can correct me Then beat about v3d app so disclaimer we provide the commercial services, of course we help build your open source Program office, let's say as a service. So we build the house for you And then we train and give you the tools the knowledge and and everything for you So do you third year a couple of years? Well, basically you have you have the Ospo or you have the inner software and office Yeah, this is me. Thank you for your time and any question. I'm here. Thank you Okay, so we are a bit out of time So we might have like one or two questions and then I think Then you can answer to them during the coffee break. There's coffee now. So we can discuss there if you want Yeah So well, this is this is so the question is I repeat the question if if we can measure Kind of the different hats in one place or the different roles in one place and somehow so I Would say the answer is mainly My we can simplify this to a technical discussion Which is if if the if the tool allows this in the case of the tool that we are using this case remote lab The thing is You can have several dashboards and then for each of the dashboards when basically you can have a menu that you can navigate or so Depending on the on the goal that you are trained to achieve in each of the cases you can build a dashboard for each of them So the tool itself it's out of the box provides like 70 plus different dashboards, which are 70 plus different use cases Can we have everything in one place? Yeah, the answer initially is yes It's positive that depends if maybe if you want to restrict access to some of the roles or How you'd like to to proceed in that way, but initially the answer is yes, we can More questions. Who's for coffee? Okay, thank you