 Welcome to tomorrow. My name is Jamie Higginbotham I am joined by a Jared head in the Hollywood Square's quadrant over here a in the space dungeon We have a Ryan Caton and we've got a Dada actually on screen. Huzzah. That's what happens when I'm not here for a hot minute Dada's like fine. I'll be on camera. It's fine We're gonna be talking about a whole bunch of it's fine. It's fine. He'll be fine. He'll be fine We're gonna be talking about space launch system today I'm sure I'm sure Ryan will talk about Starship for all you SpaceX nerds. Don't worry. I'm sure we will get some SpaceX in there Is that is that correct Ryan? Yes, okay, great Thanks I did want to start off with Artibus 2's SLS to whatever you want to call it They've started integrating the engines and I also have a feeling like this is gonna spiral into a conversation about how sad it is that We're using space shuttle main engines as expendable some of the most impressive engines. Oh, yeah Yeah, some of the most impressive engines that face. That's the face. We all make I get it I do get it But in belongs in a museum Well, no, here's what will happen So we'll integrate them into all the space launch systems, right? And then we'll fly the space launch systems the boosters will fall back into the ocean and then Jeff Bezos will go collect the engines for us from the ocean I'm thinking back and put him in the museum or fly him again. I mean Whatever, whatever. It's all fine. It's fine or Tori Bruno will catch him on the way down With you know, okay. Hang on. So let me really quickly talk about space launch system Let's put a pin in that because like I have comment I have thoughts on catching engines and smarts and Peter Beck and all of them trying to do that stuff And I have been unwavering in my opinion and so far I have been right now I'm only right until I'm wrong, but sure But in the Mishu assembly building in New Orleans, they have started integrating the space shuttle main engines specifically for you nerds We hang out of last my notes. I actually have the engine numbers for you. You're welcome. Thank you NASA space flight But but the first RS 25 engine was installed a September 11th and that engine was e 2059 and was put in the number two position nerd Although I'm the one who took the note So I'll call myself a nerd too. Like I enjoyed it. I was like, I was like, ooh, I know which engines going where this is fantastic It's actually this particular vehicle, which is Artemis 2. This is the one that's gonna do the the lunar flyby It actually has two engines that were used on previous space shuttle missions 2059 it's also using Another one that I don't remember its number on somebody help me save me But then it's got two other engines that were actually space shuttle spare So we're not at the point yet where aeroget rocket time is building new and engines integrated into space launch system So we're still in the hay. We've got all of these old engines To be used by the old space shuttle program Yeah, so and then 2059 actually start 15 missions on space shuttle So again amazing flight heritage makes me super sad that we're dumping these things in the ocean but Like I'm not I'm not actually space SLS hater I actually think it's a pretty impressive vehicle and like it can do some pretty cool things and it's pretty powerful and so I get it I Think that the idea of using the RS 25 As an engine as opposed to just building What they were gonna use that J2 originally right maybe not for SLS It was J2 J2 X right J2 X was for the Aries family Right, well it was for well it went into constellations for Aries five, right? I mean, okay, this is where people are gonna get angry with me, but it's all the same. So So if I recall correctly, they were originally actually gonna do use the RS 68 which is the First-age engine on the Delta 4 And they were gonna do a crew rated version of that and then the J2 they were doing a modified version of that called J2 X which was going to be the upper-stage engine Right That was all constellation. It doesn't apply. So there you go. Yeah, right go right All right, anyhow, so the pin thing I wanted to put a pin in we were talking about oh Catching these engines with a parachute Everyone seems to think that it's super easy to take a helicopter and go just catch a bunch of things falling from the sky and I'm sure that the military cannon has done it, but have they actually done it with something with the Size complexity scale and all of the things of like a rocket Like we watched Rocket Lab get close, but like you see that you saw them go. This isn't safe and just like a board. I Think they're actually using the wrong tool for this. They've got that that There was I can't remember the name of the program, but early 60s they use the C-130 Hercules Okay, and on those of the vehicle it's got two antenna that stick out like this and Some sort of device to pinch a rope They would have a man on the ground with a balloon attached and you know and our harness and then from the tips of those antennas things It's got wires that go past the props to protect the props and everything But basically you fly by it and this little nose thing hits that wire and Pinches that wire so that they can capture it and then bring the person person into the cargo bay And I think if they use a tool similar to that where they had a long string between you know you've got a parachute and then all of your your shroud lines that collected at some point if between that shroud line collection and the payload you put a long string of Steel steel cable or something you could actually use something like that to do it and of course depending on the weight and There's lots of engineering that would have to go into that But I think that would be better than trying to like snag a parachute or in here me out here Propulsively land the booster Right, let's go through this really quickly right SpaceX was like oh, we're gonna capture Falcon 9 with we're gonna land it with parachutes I'm sorry Falcon 1 we're gonna land Falcon 1 parachutes and then after very early data They went nope. Just kidding. We're not gonna do that the laboratory was like oh We're gonna you know land these things in capturing with a helicopter. They tried it a couple times I got pretty close and then they went no, we're gonna propulsively land these things Tori Tori hear me hear me Tori Tori hear me now Smart is not smart Propulsively land the Vulcan Please Man, please I'm gonna I'm gonna throw you a throw you a curveball here a graphic Tori Released on Twitter and I'm not gonna share my opinion on it. Just yet. I will explain what it shows And what it does show is that a vehicle that looks suspiciously like Starship and a vehicle that looks suspiciously like Falcon 9 You know just generic rocket 101 First aid separation is at 70 kilometers and peak altitude is at 110 Vulcan. However And separates at 170 and reaches a peak apogee of 290 so I think Tori's argument here is that Smart to reuse makes more sense for Vulcan because it goes what's that nearly three times higher than? Generic rocket looking like Starship and generic rocket looking like Falcon 9 To be honest, I mean if you look at this it does kind of make sense Why are you not propulsively landing the thing well because it goes three times higher Yeah, you have you're gonna have so much more energy During re-entry coming back down towards a pad and I can understand that argument But at the at the same time that also proposes the other than the next question Which is is Vulcan the wrong architecture if you're sending it So if you're sending its first stage so high that you can't bring it back Starship however can take more into orbit, especially with orbital refueling and yet both parts are supposedly able to come back We'll see if it actually works on Yeah, you'll face supposedly We haven't seen it. Oh my god I can't sit here and say it will come back if we haven't seen a booster gun on the chopsticks We haven't seen a ship come back to earth Nothing has happened. The only thing we've seen with Starship fly so far is it flying blow up Vulcan hasn't flown yet Yes, but it no no, no these systems have been tested Be fair it did somersaults before it blew up Yeah, come on Ryan. Yeah, be fair about that Also, I said so plus it didn't fds when it was told to it just didn't you know It's summer so it was and it's all and it's on re so that was slow fds. It was it was a feature Just a little acrobatics show Rocket desolé I Like this one Ryan. Oh, and it's over Ryan too. How brilliant is that Ryan with the facts? in the space dungeon Yeah And then there were a couple good comments in here I wanted to bring up sorry And I've lost them There avail says with the SRBs of Vulcan first stage is going too fast to boost back though, right? So round it on a barge in the ocean is what Jamie's not gonna say. Well, I won't know I'm that just means they're not using all of their available payload It I think I think I think Ryan hit the nail on the head frankly I think it means that maybe they didn't design a great architecture and their smart architecture is because the rest of it's dumb Right, I mean obviously I'm biased so take that all with a grain of salt also more people flying to space is good So I'm not a Vulcan hater. I just think that like we've moved past the era where you can blick our reusability is not a thing Welcome to the new world reusable rockets are a thing Get on board or you're not gonna be able to compete Also, I think a portion of I think a part of that is that you're talking about an old space rocket company that is that would have to embrace new space rocket technology and Butload of software coding in order to be able to make that work and SpaceX so far is the one that's the ones that have done that and well and still in business RIP Mastin but that having to having to invest all of that development is Probably not a comfortable place for the bigger rocket companies that have been around longer. I Would also argue too that for SpaceX there are not necessarily How would I describe it? Public stakeholders that have to be answered to like like United Launch Alliance would with the the with the Underpinnings of Lockheed and Boeing is as a foundation to themselves. I Would argue there is another yeah, cuz they've never made anything that falls out of the sky I would argue there is another old-school legacy space company that actually has built some reusable launch rock vehicles And actively does it and that's blue origin right like Thing I was like you say actively I don't think that word means what you think it means Well, no, I was just kind of letting that one sink in because I just call blue origin old space I'm sorry I have been around longer than six six I do want to just really quickly Ryan you were gonna say something, but we are here and after refer to you as Brian Hey, isn't that the Brian guy from NASA space flight? So take it away Brian I didn't have anything to say. Oh, sorry. I thought you did. I thought you did. I thought you did. I'm sorry By the way Tommy, that's actually Ryan Originally from tomorrow who then made his way over to NASA space flight not the other way around. Thanks everyone All right, so that that was what I had on I actually am excited for a space launch system to By the way, do we call this thing Artemis 2 or SLS 2 because I've seen them kind of like interchangeably used because Artemis Is the name of the program, but the vehicles SLS Artemis 2 is the name of the mission I They're not I don't know if the if in in the background somewhere. There's a serial number for the SLS that's flying this one It I mean, they're not naming them So it's kind of hard to say this it's not like B 1062 is flying Starlink blah blah blah blah blah blah we get that with SpaceX But I don't know there may be some booster number in the background that we're just not, you know, they're just not promoting Maybe I don't know it would be nice if they could number the the the vehicles though SLS 2 does kind of make sense though considering. It's the second flight of the SLS I actually wish so I it's it's funny in my personal opinion again This is my opinion and not that of anyone else Like numbering boosters for company X doesn't make sense. They should have easily inspiring names like Atlantis for example, right? Thank you 1052 is not inspiring Atlantis is fun and then you can have these fake wars online with which booster is best based on its name, right like It's fun and there's still people still argue their favorite booster based on the number And when you get to a point where you have to come up with so many names You can't remember them all it's easier just to have a number Is that true? Yeah Falcon 9 boot of Falcon 9 I'm gonna get roasted for this in some form somewhere But I don't wait wait wait wait wait full screen full screen full screen Falcon 9 boosters do not have personalities. Okay space shuttles have personalities Which means they deserve names Falcon 9 boosters. They're a bit bland. They don't deserve names serial numbers work just fine for them Did you hear that I? Love that don't fix the headroom live on the air. That's fantastic. I fundamentally disagree with you I think every booster has a personality and I think every shuttle had a personality as well, you know Discovery was a diva Right Atlantis was just like a workhorse. She was just like a reliable diva I don't know. There were a lot of it was a discovery with all the gups right the gup issues I'm just saying they out. Yeah. Yeah, but they always chose discovery to for the return to flights Yeah, bad choices doesn't mean that she was reliable Anyhow, this is a fun conversation. We're having you don't really Ryan you're not wrong I'm sure that there are Much hardcore more hard card space nerds and I that easy for me to say Um that we'll do the same thing with booster numbers But there's something more human about being able to do it with like Names as opposed to numbers, right? We're not given serial number. Well, we are but but we're not We're not referenced by our serial numbers we're referenced by our names, right? So, um, yeah Well, what? All right, Stephen Lewis Stephen Lewis is a really good point, which is that ships have names Ships have names. Well, okay If if this future of ours is is that that exploration that we want and that ability to push people out Ships do that and ships of names therefore We have to keep our serial numbers to ourselves right Just saying just saying All right, that's all that's all I have a space launch system other than I am I actually am excited for it Like I will give yeah, it is very difficult for me to actively be able to give company x criticism Live on the air just because of you know, who I am So you won't really see a whole lot of me doing that So it feels like I'm very one-sided on this stuff, but I think I'm an equal anyone who knows me I'm an equal opportunity if it's stupid. It's stupid. It doesn't matter where it comes from and if it's great It's great. It doesn't matter where it comes from and I I think I'm not a huge fan of using Reusable rocket engines to dump them in the ocean. I don't actually think we save that much money doing it this way Um, whole bunch of stuff, but I could be wrong Um, but having said that space launch system pretty freaking cool Like it's going to enable us to get back to moon and I don't really care how we get from point A to point B As long as we can get humanity back on the moon. That's a win for me, right? Yeah, that's three three three plus rs 25s and booster crackle. You're almost at shuttle Is it I don't know if it's gonna sound the sick because that those solids would tear through the air There's something about the solids, man. Oh wait. No. No. I'm so sorry. No, I'm I'm not thinking this through Of course it does have solids. It has solids It has five sevens dollars instead of four space And they got a little extra kick. I just lost three space points for that one. So Yeah, all right. I know I know I'm like, oh, it doesn't have solids It's not going to whatever and then I'm like wait, no hold on not only does it have solids that has bigger solids I'd like to see a launch one day Like in person you've never seen a launch I've never seen a shuttle launch. So That would be the closest that it no, I'm not but that would be the closest I would be able to get Okay, well, I feel like we could I've seen I've seen falcons and deltas and like I I'm not Lacking for having seen launches, but I want to see one of those launch Okay. Yeah, you want to see something with like massive crazy solids on it and like Yeah Okay, uh the other one that I had just for my new stories and this is probably a shorter topic But something I found interesting is that, you know, you know Everyone is aware of SpaceX's insane launch cadence right now, right? Like we're all we all know, right? You know, you know, you know, right? Okay Apparently China's Hey, I'm You know, actually here's a fun game for everyone to play Make note of I don't do Virtual backgrounds, right? So this is this is a physical background that I can grab things from right? It's all real Which means anytime you see me on camera, nothing is virtual It's all real So just start paying attention to the different backgrounds you see behind me each week and realize it's different because I'm somewhere else that week And I'm not this is home. This is california and just start paying attention to the changes in backgrounds that occur That's how, you know, we have a crazy launch cadence. All right I mean that's part of it, but whatever so, uh, it's turned out China is actually playing a game a catch-up sort of They actually launched, uh Well a while ago like in august they launched one of their rockets From the jihuan satellite center, but it was a commercial rocket and turned out over two weeks They'd launched five times and I was like huh That's space x launching manifest type stuff So there is an interesting space race occurring again, but it seems to be between and maybe this is me extrapolating out Of one small incident and not looking at like all of it for the year But it feels like it's no longer the us versus china It's space x versus everyone else and everyone else just trying to keep up with space x Including you are doing exactly that you're extrapolating like a two-week lip across the entire year Space x has like insane cadence over 365 days I know you're talking about the seras one and that had insane cadence for a couple of weeks And there's a difference between doing it for 52 weeks Than doing it for two there there is but it shows that they can do it Right, so for two weeks Well, yeah, but like once you get that figured out you can kind of you know Sort through some of the inefficiencies and you can start to ramp up there I'm just saying like once you do it once once you do it one It shows that they're capable of doing it and that like if anyone's going to have this capability kind of moving forward It might be them of all places right like i'm not seeing Well, i'm curious to see how quickly they can ramp up vulcan cadence, but I don't know that they need to so Yeah, I I just Again, I may have just extrapolated too much out of a single incident. I I said that upfront I said that could be the case, but like yeah, I find it interesting that we you know We could start to see that from other places now. Also, how cool you la is still making vulcan in the same pipe They made atlas aren't they? Uh factory and process flow and all that I don't know that the cadence is gonna It's gonna ramp up and very very much We'll define pipe right because the pipe has to change with a new rocket. It has to Yeah, they modified the where the the the shop floor and all that for with new tooling for Vulcan instead of atlas, but they're still making it in the same buildings along the same line with the same That like at some point you're not going to get a faster rate than what you did before because you're not doing anything different I I Okay, so the last part of your sentence I agree with if you're not doing something different then you're not going to be able to anything but like You know SpaceX still produces the falcon nine in In the on the Hawthorne in Hawthorne campus in hto one, right? Like They've done that and they started off with the cadence of what was it once every 18 months and now it's once every 18 hours Whatever whatever But you get the idea right it's it's not just the production of the vehicles It's the whole ecosystem And going together and if they can figure out smart and like In all fairness in defensive smart the thing that seems to take the most time is the power pack, right the the production the The rocket engines the whole yeah, right all the all of that and if they can save all of that and make it So you just go and plug it into a new um Effectively can You know, right fuel fuel tank you plug it into a new fuel tank fuel tank isn't nearly as hard to build As the as the the thrust puck the thrust structure of the vehicle Having said that avionics is arguably the second hardest thing And those are all outside the entire or inside or wherever, but they're all along the entire vehicle So like I still don't understand smart. I just Yeah, but to your point SpaceX's factory floor layout has changed dramatically since they opened the factory and on day one, hasn't it? um So Ish yes, I'm not going to disagree But also the big huge machines that make the things go they're part of structure. They have not moved and they have not really changed that much So yes. No. Yes. Like to your point every time you walk in there. It's different, right? But like also it's the same It's like, you know, when you When you leave for a couple years, then you go back home It's all different, but it's the same, but it's different, but it's the same. It's that Yeah, I'm just saying if they haven't changed enough in their factory to be able to Increase their their rate then the rate of the whole rocket isn't going to change Like engines are the most complicated part So that's usually where your bottleneck is and like you said avionics is second because it's the second most complicated part By the way, you know that intimately You Sorry too soon too soon. Sorry Filters get a good supplier for filters But like if you if you can't if you can't tackle the engine at rate problem You're not going to be able to get the rocket at rate reward Oh, I agree with that But the way you tackle engine at rate is not necessarily by building all new engines. It's by reusability Right. I I think peter remember peter beck and his hat because he didn't point. ULA is ULA is not reusing their tanks. So They have to build on that same same line The flow of tanks that they want to be able to keep up with their reusable Uh power pack. Yeah, but how long does it take to build a tank? That's what I'm saying is they I don't think that they're going to get a much better better rate than atlas Did then with with vulcan because it's built on the same line using the same processes No, but what I'm saying is even if it's built on the same line, okay That we we are boring everyone But what I'm saying is yeah built on the same line the same processes All they need to do is build the tank the process fundamentally changes with smart because they don't need to build the engines So with that fundamental change in process You have a fundamental change in potential output from the factory because you no longer need to output the entire thrust puck Right. All you need to output are tanks now. So, yeah, the factory hasn't changed And yeah, they can still build engines on the factory But if they don't need to build the engines all of a sudden they can take all those resources and throw them at tanks The question then becomes what was the stop cap? Was it the tanks? Were they unable to build tanks at scale or the engines? I can fathom a guess With high level of confidence and say it was the engines right like I Let me let me go out on a not very large limb here and uh and say, yeah, they're they're you know, they're stuck on engines. So, yeah Mike has a good point which is that um on on The point of customer cadence so SpaceX has the advantage of making their own demand with starlink and Yeah, you're not UNA doesn't have their own satellite constellation which they're eager to launch with Vulcan, right? They are fully dependent on external customers. Whether they have a close relationship with them like origin and kuiper or or not That's a good. Yeah, I could you could I would almost phrase it is so far SpaceX's best customer has been themselves Well and by by context and then SpaceX's best customers than you the starlink consumer Right hearts All right, that was it for me I just I found that interesting and I'm curious to see what happens and because ryan you could be right Like I could be reading too much into something that doesn't exist. You're probably right Or maybe there's something there. Maybe they were trying something out to see if they could actually get cadence up Like maybe they do have You know, maybe they got something going on. Maybe they want to try their own starlink system or whatever the case may be They have to whoa They hand bend Have you not seen that smarter every day? No, I have not and send it to you. All right. So apparently so there was it was brought up in the chat room There's a smarter every day ula tour ula tour and uh, I take acronyms and I turn them into words What do you want? My my team at company x has gotten so used to this they actually start regurgitating Made up acronyms back to me. So instead of hdmi, I'll just I'll just say hitting me and so they'll say, oh, hey, do we do we have a hitting me to city adapter? I'm like Only only here Nowhere else. No, I I use hitting me too. Yeah. All right. What did I so I'm the one who got you to do that, right? Yeah I will get nasa so I got nasa to say Imbiginate and insmolinate on comms not my next one My next goal is to get them to say hit me on comms and I will I will get someone I will get a nasa engineer to say hit me on comms ideally on a flight loop that's recorded We'll get there. We'll get there. I need a few years, but I think I can get cronos to say hit me Which is my arch nemesis cronos So I'm gonna post a link to that smarter every day Video in general on discord Okay, great. Cool. So moving on everybody has access So we spent a lot of time on space launch system and a little bit of time on China and I know that our space accident out there that are pissed at me for talking about nasa at all So I dare you I know so we'll look at this hollywood square brian. What do you've got? Sorry, I'm sorry ryan. What have you got for uh for us for a space x this week Uh, not a lot. Um, they uh They they they took the ship off the top of the booster Uh, so they can't launch it because they took it off the top and you know So I get that starship is slightly important to the starship whole system Is it kind of in the name? Uh, so Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they're flying anytime soon asterisk big old asterisk Because some of you may have seen a video last week Uh from our uh nsf's own das explaining that they need to destack the booster to arm the flight termination system So we're flying soon, right? No, we're not because they've taken it off the top And it doesn't look like they're going to be arming the flight termination system anytime soon because of A speech that kathy leaders who now works at space x at starbase There was some event in uh, like a Conference room in a holiday in somewhere near starbase in the brownsville area. I would guess And she basically said that we're two to three weeks out and there's many uh, or there's other items that need to be sorted with with the system so That confirms from the top that the flight termination system isn't the only thing that needs to be worked on with this ship Unfortunately, so it does seem like we are We are not launching in the next few days. We are going to be launching in the next few weeks unfortunately, um, and We're also still waiting for the fAA to uh, uh, waiting for space x to apply to the fAA to get that to get to get their license sorted But they can't they can't do that until they get all of their documents sorted So, you know, there's there's hardware and regulatory things that we're waiting for So what you're telling me is that this has been nowhere near actually nowhere near ready No, even though it has been said to be ready Yes Okay All right, so that's that's good. That's good so also I could see uh That's a space flight chris in the chat room. They're saying me during these come out of cell I'm not going to take it anymore From not there. So thank you so much With it. We didn't even have to say shovel shovel shovel in order to get chris to appear today. So pretty good um, and then mac also in the Chat room saying so you're telling me there's a chance You didn't say it with the right the right accent Go ahead and say there's still a chance All right, so ryan as the the fAA is It's constantly trying to be made out to be the big baddie here. Are they the big baddie here or are we Or is there a big baddie here? The fAA isn't the big baddie. Um The nobody's really the big baddie. We're just waiting for spacex Uh, they may have already done it But the last statement we got from the fAA implied that we're waiting for spacex to ask the fAA to amend the flight license that allowed To get rid of the cause that says this is only valid for one flight essentially So once that's amended that clause is removed the launch license is then valid for more flights of starship and super heavy And the statement that we got implied that that hadn't happened yet There may also be something uh with a review of the environmental assessment The fish and wild eye service may be involved in that as well. There's a whole bunch of regulatory things There's just basically at the moment stuff is just getting read and reviewed Uh, it's not really anything else to say about it and the big pointy ship is no longer on top of the booster Um, that's that's pretty that's pretty much the round up of how everything's going at the moment So what you're telling me is that there's a delay An aerospace project has an aerospace project is moving to the right Yes, yes, well, it's maybe it was planned for this all along we never know but uh, you know No official date has been announced No official date will be announced until you know, everything's ready and that'll probably be the a day or two before The the second flight actually gets underway Yeah, I'm fairly confident that there's no 40 chests being played here. It's just this is how it works Um, it's just that usually this is not being done in the public's eye like like we have here Where you could you know be watching from across the street? Um, so yeah So interesting always it's always interesting to get to see the sides of space flight That you don't often get to see like the regulatory work and things like that Because it really is a huge part of space flight. So And actually Dave Avery, I think has a really good barometer here for when it would happen, which is if there's been no press credentialing yet for IFT too or if they're using Jamie's rules or Jamie's suggestion now if too Um for for uh starship coming up. So um, so I figured that one will probably be a good indicator that okay Now we are starting to get very realistic here Mm-hmm And also some of the time the press is alerted of things, but they're told not to share it So it's just like for planning purposes for for press planning purposes, you know A lot of the time things like that eventually do leak out. You try your very best not to um, but um To my knowledge, I know I haven't received any kind of notification along those lines. So Yeah, there's a but if I couldn't even tell you if I did But I haven't got anything so Um, uh, yeah, there's there's been no notification from anywhere really apart from Notices to mariners which have been pulled. So, you know, it is a bit in the dark at the moment Yeah, and eddie's saying it's time. We bring back two weeks. So two weeks Two to three weeks Six months You know, yeah, I hope not either. So I kind of like it to go before the end of the year. So yeah So although, you know, the longer it is that's a that's a bet you don't want to win At least it's two weeks and not six months Yes Yeah, it'll be two weeks for six months, but it won't be six months for three years That's wait, are you sure about that? Anyways, um Yeah So we're here here. We wait Both for more info and the launch. So All right, I feel like we entered the awkward end of that. Yeah So I can turn my camera back on and there's nothing more to say I'm just sitting here going So jaren, how about you? What uh, thank you by the way, ryan. That was that was awesome I'm practicing my hollywood squares. Thank you ryan. That was awesome. Uh jaren. Yeah How about how about you jaren? What what have you got for us this week? Oh, I got something really cool. Uh this week that I'm like super super stoked about Um, is it stokespace? It is not stokespace. Um, I wanted to talk about this Which you may have heard of Um, did we find aliens? Um, no, it's a cake. It's a cake I love that. I know exactly what you're talking about. Um, and I agree it is a cake and I would eat it. Um, so uh So jdup, uh, I've been doing What we were hoping it would do which is excellent observation work Um out in space Looking in infrared the near infrared There and we have been there's been a couple Observation sessions recently where it's been looking at exoplanets. Um, and You know your observation and what you do with this distributed throughout The time period is the time that's available on it So it was looking at an exoplanet around a star called k12 18 And it's out 124 light years away from us and the entire planet Jared, do you know how I was earlier saying we shouldn't call boosters by their numbers? Mm-hmm And we should give these things human names because we couldn't relate to those. What was the name of the star again? K k12-18 Cool go on Okay, look all I'm gonna say is that in star trek In star look you made me move everything in star trek. Um, they have had ridiculously numbered named planets before Um, so yeah, it's it's it's even in science fiction. It's a convention. So if you don't like it, um, go go fix it yourself um All right now it's Now it only takes um This well this planet first of all has an even better name that you're gonna love jb. It's called k2-18 b um So we'll just call it b like that's its nickname for short b Um, so b is a mini Neptune 8 times mass of the earth Uh, the star that it orbits around is a red dwarf So it's actually within the habitable zone of this star, but it's only takes 33 days to orbit it So red dwarfs not as potent as our own sun So you could be really close to them and still be within the habitable zone with it The habitable zone basically means that if you have an earth like atmosphere The temperatures are right for liquid water to exist It doesn't mean the liquid water's there. It doesn't mean that life is there or anything But it just means that if you wanted to have liquid water and if you had a earth like atmosphere You would be able to have liquid water there So what's interesting about this planet that they have observed with j dub is that the Things that have been observed in its atmosphere are very Similar to what we'd expect from biosignatures if there were to be life Possibly on an exoplanet so the first thing is that the light coming from the planet When analyzed through j-dubs instruments kind of Looks a bit like a water world And I don't mean like earth with the with the water that we have because the earth actually really doesn't have a lot of water Moons like Europa and even a moon as small as Enceladus around Saturn have more water than the earth does so this is This is a fully water-covered planet and in addition to that It has a hydrogen-rich atmosphere So these oceans are like hundreds of kilometers deep. These oceans would be relatively warm And if you got hydrogen there, you got a very good thing for that water to interact with now Here we go spectra. You ready, baby? It's the spectra. It's all about the spectra So what do they detect in the atmosphere that is like such a big deal? with that well, first of all carbon dioxide So that's a pretty big deal. Uh, that means you might have sort of like a thick atmosphere there We also got methane In the atmosphere which methane can occur through geological processes and also biological processes But the one that really got everybody's attention was dimethyl sulfide so that is a chemical that here on earth Is made almost almost entirely by biological processes not geological natural processes that way So We can't discount The the idea of dimethyl sulfide being made through a process other than biology or reactions that biology is causing But it's a pretty good indicator of that. However, the data that we have Isn't quite complete So we've got to do more observations of b And make sure that we follow up with that but This is just j dubb doing exactly what it was designed to do which is to Look at exoplanets and give us extremely precise measurements of the things that are there in their atmospheres And also begin to scratch the surface as to what their surfaces may actually end up being like And this is oh god Yeah, I did it. This is a spectacular result Um, and we're all super excited and there's already a follow-up observation time set up specifically for Planet b here. Um, so I guess I guess if we are going to call it something we could call it planet b Maybe um like, you know, planet a is earth planet b is this so, um Yeah, so I'm just we're super jazzed about that because j dubb is doing exactly what it was designed to do and Like oh my gosh, it's great So so two things one benet is benet's comment was funny. Let's answer the question. Can we frack it? Uh, but but but really we Here is I think what I heard you say, um j dubb st has found inconclusive proof of alien life in the universe Um, and that is my takeaway Uh, no That's what I heard you say. That's what I heard you say j dubb absolutely has proven intelligent alien life built the pyramids Okay, so first of all, no, um, we don't have that cake here to present. I don't have the data Don't have the cake. Don't have the cake. I love for those who don't know There was that whole like mexican alien thing and then there's a there's another meme of like then cutting into it And it's cake Slicing the face in half. It's just like a little piece of cake that they put on a thing That's funny. Yeah, uh, so No, it is not it is if anything it is a it is a sliver of incomplete data that call that Demands us to return to it and figure out what exactly is going on. Um, so this is this is exactly why you build instruments and you use instruments like j dubb because you want To find those things for you to follow up on and then go take a look at them and get even better data Like now that you have the foundation as to what you're looking at you now know exactly what you should look at So you can use your time on j dubb better and more efficiently and Maybe even figure out a way to work with the data that you're going to take now to get even better Even better Parsing of that data and figure things out from it. Um, so essentially what what this story tells us is that one j dubb is doing exactly what we designed it to do and to j dubb is enabling exactly the kind of science that we want it to do so, um You know theoretically j dubb has the ability to detect what would be biosignatures or basically the signs signs of life But it that kind of a discovery would require The highest level of scrutiny that you possibly think of Everyone would jump if something somebody were to release a paper right now saying that they have j dubb data that shows that life exists You know or at least the signatures of life exists on another planet I can assure you that every single telescope on this planet that just used to take data that could Take that data would swivel immediately um to that target and Do whatever they can in order to disprove? um, the data that's been found so so for now We need more observation, but dang it's a good. This is a dang good start from j dubb, so Jared if you want to I have a screen share. I don't hook or not jared the other jared dada if you want to out There you go. There's the this is the cake. There you go. So there's the alien right. There's the alien and you just kind of Go in And it's cake. Look at that. It's cake Looks delicious. I think that is that like a is that like a hazelnut? Is that a caramel or hazelnut? What do you think? Hmm turns out the aliens had a creamy nougat center Oh It's like it's like to serve man, but in reverse Uh, that is pretty cool with j dub. Uh, I am excited for the awesome science that will come out of it. Uh, it's Yeah, I I mean Yeah, I really hope that they are able to refine that and be like actually this might be a sign of life Right like that is a real scenario that could happen right like they're not saying that right now But there is a word like they're going okay. Okay. Maybe maybe maybe not We don't know but as they refine it down and like prove out the data we could go towards Actually, yes, we can also go towards actually no, but like like well I I want to point out that if we were to go actually if we were to go towards no then that provides us an even Better narrowing of what we should look for for life So then we could take then we could say okay dimethyl sulfide we can actually throw that out Like that's not a good indicator for life So now we don't have to waste our time on these 100 100 to 200 targets that we have detected dimethyl sulfide at Now we can actually use our time productively at other targets Um, so again, I just want to throw that out that even disproving yourself in science is a pretty good thing as well Because it helps you focus better on what you're actually trying to go after I feel like all data is good data even if it's data. You don't want right like It doesn't always feel good in the moment, but sometimes it leads you to a better place down the road Right. Yeah, exactly. So cool as long as you're getting data and you're using that data effectively. It's good I'm gonna push back a little bit on your your claim that you can't Uh Form emotional bonds with numbers. Oh my god. We're back to that. Yes. Okay. Hold on. Do are we Hang on hang on. Let me just make a note of this the new title of this show is quote. You can't form emotional bonds with numbers Okay, continue Uh r2d2 c3po k2so Okay, I forgot to send that names Oh You were not you fought against your own point. So does b103 All right. All right touche. All right. Hey, you know what hang on I'm gonna leave it to the community in the comments for this episode of quote You can't form an emotional bonds with a number I think I will change the title too. You can't form. I don't know it'll work against me on the agro Algorithm, but I feel like anyone who's like actually real space dirt and it was like, all right I'm gonna click into that watch it and I'm watching, you know 53 minutes into this episode and is like, oh my god. This is funny I I feel like they're the real you're the real winners if you're still here with us right now And let me know Uh, if you think you can form an emotional bond with a number and if you can What number have you formed an emotional bond with? Leave in the comments below that'd be great max says 11 Max says 11. Oh well. We both got to it. Sorry. We're both That's what happens when we're both in the admin interface this week. There's a number on me right now So, oh wait, hang on. Hang on. You know what? And then proving, uh, dada's point even more seven of nine All right star trek. Oh, well, you wouldn't know You wouldn't know. Yeah, none of you would know only I would know. All right. Got it. What? Uh star trek you guys don't do star trek your star wars your star wars You're not sci-fi. I I'm both Ryan do you watch sci-fi at all? um If for all mankind counts, but you know, I mean alternate alternate history then then it is fiction all right For the post-show I've got a topic For for the members only show. I've got a topic of ryan's favorite sci-fi now I was going to start wrapping the show, but someone in the comments and this is why I love your comments Uh, let me see if I can find it actually. Hey, hang on. It was because they said it and I was like, I mean, here we go Stokes space did a really cool stuff recently and I'm like, oh my god They totally did and then I completely left them out of the show and I feel like a raging idiot for doing that But like they have so for those who don't know stokes space has like this hang on They've got this Yeah, yeah, they got this kind of Yeah, right So they've got like this this vehicle here and they've got like a billion different engines and it's kind of like building oopsies It's kind of like building a um, not a ramjet. What is it? um Aerospike engine Yeah, it's kind of like yeah Yeah, and so they this was their test article and they had done their like their test missions with this test article And then they were like, you know what? Let's blow it up. Let's take it to 11 We don't need it anymore Let's see what we can do and then they're like, let's post that on x and so here you go. This is really freaking cool. Also This is them Isn't this great Tell me that's not great anyhow It's very loud in my ear I don't think you guys can hear that because I don't think uh the evmux max stuff lets the audio move But like yeah, which which night at burning man was this? Hahaha Actually, that would be really cool. That is a great idea. They should go to burning man Actually, they shouldn't that would be very dangerous That would be very dangerous But off of the distance stoke space like that would be really freaking cool anyhow, um First off, did we forget about firefly? Oh my god, did we forget about firefly too? I you know, oh, I feel like an idiot because In everyone's defense, we didn't know until about a half hour before Well, I think firefly forgot about firefly They only had 24 hours notice. Well, yeah, hang on hang on 24 hours notice that they executed in 27 hours Not that's sure, but that's it's really good. Most most people do I think everyone other than a missile If the Department of Defense we weren't able to do that at the at my company yet That's what I'm saying. They're better than everyone except for a missile I don't think anyone else has been able to do this other than like the military launching a missile Yeah So, yeah, that's really cool. Hang on. Let me find the uh, I'm sorry Jerry. What were you saying? Oh, I was just saying uh, that you know, don't worry. Nobody nobody until about a half hour before new so Like don't sweat it So that was awesome to watch by the way. Thank you firefly for a most a most entertaining What was it friday when they launched I think yeah, I actually so I was in the middle of like great Yeah, we were like I was doing my own launch stuff or maybe I was on an airplane or something I don't remember and like all of a sudden I'm getting all of these these posts on x of like Oh my god firefly and I'm like, oh, did they blow one up? No, they did incredible amazing things like check this out And then who won and lift off I think that's pretty I think that's pretty fantastic go firefly Although in all fairness with the exception of one very specific customer Who needs 24 hour turnaround? Like there's one there's one customer that needs it. There's one customer. Yeah, there's one very specific customer I can think of a very uh relevant movie quote For something involving 24 hour turnaround of our customer, which is if you build it they will come I'm sure that there are a multitude of people who are dreaming up ideas or companies that have like Like scum cork style divisions that are thinking of these radical ideas of What if we could get something up there in a ridiculously short amount of time? Like that what could that enable? To happen, right? So actually that's a really good point One of the things that California was actually looking at using version orbit for was Like wildfires when they needed Detailed surveillance to in order to be able to counter a wildfire You don't know when they're going to start and if you can have a payload that's ready to go And a launch provider that's willing to Be on a 24 hour standby You know when something happens and you need instant surveillance and it's you can't do helicopters or planes or You don't get satellite coverage for some reason You can launch your own and if you can do that inside of 24 hours imagine how much time and energy you can save so I forgive my ignorance. What does a rocket launch or even a satellite payload have to do with a wildfire? Is it something where like you've got a cube sat with a? um observation package on it that's in a Stationary orbit that's just going to fall back to earth after you know a short amount of time Sort of things that it can just like get a really detailed view of what those wildfires are Like something that it that is geared specifically for the types of things that you would the types of collecting the types of information You would want to know about a wildfire heat signatures Where smoke is going etc and Maybe you can't find Existing satellite assets that will be able to cover when you want the coverage So you can just put your own up and it's a cube sat or a small sat and then who cares if it You know Deorbits in a couple of weeks, but you've got that responsiveness that you can then use as a tool to better fight the fire Yeah, mr. Huggy with a comment there saying imagery companies might like it to be able to put a satellite in orbit for a natural disaster So it's not just wildfires. It's a multitude of things as well that you can use for like disaster recovery And helping out with that You know, I mean here in california wildfires are certainly not something that just happens for a couple of hours and then it's done Especially especially in very remote areas And then you could think of things like with disaster recovery as well Like you think of the floods that just happened in libya, you know, that is a long term recovery Project if you will, you know, I hate to phrase it that way But there's a lot of long term recovery that can come from that and you might need to Now get geospatial data that tells you a whole bunch of different things like where did Where did silt end up getting moved? So now we know we can't you know, but like crops or other things in these areas Here's where I'm confused. It's important to have that kind of data and if you can get it quickly Um for cheap if you will, um, there's no better platform quite like space to be able to deliver that But can we not already get that data quickly for fairly cheap today? like we've got polar satellites that image the earth like Once once a day sorted we have multiple satellites imaging the earth and gathering exactly that data without the need to launch something in 24 hours So what is that 24 hour launch? Like it would have to be something custom for that specific area in a plane that makes sense for that very specific area Those things are kind of difficult to have like crisscross. Are they not? Like, you know, it's not like you send something up to space and magic happens, right? There needs to you need to have the asset on the ground ready to go You need it You need to be able to launch it into a plane that actually makes sense for the area that you want to observe You've got to have like it's got to stay in some sort of orbit. That's going to take a moment So it just it's not closing. Maybe I'm just not seeing the big picture, but it's just not closing in my head Uh, you you can't always find Uh people providers or equipment that will grant you ability to use all of that data Even if it already exists so Sure, if you want to to try to find to search all of the current satellites in in in space and Uh find somebody that's got the right kind of imagery, but uh, they don't have the bandwidth that you need Or they're using it for their own project. So your your priorities take second place You know, it's it's it could be cheaper and easier to Provide your own dedicated asset as opposed to Trying to do all that legwork to find it But but let's run through this scenario real quick here, right? Let's just say it's a california wildfire, right? California wildfire. Oh my god. Someone just like lightning hit somewhere in california It's it started raging this morning So I need to get imagery of this fire. I have a satellite already on the show Is this my satellite that i'm like, where does this satellite come from? Okay, and I've just dropped my satellite on the ground now What do I do like there's a whole lot that goes into this so first problem is I just had satellites with the proper imaging package ready to go on the shelf Yeah Okay, yeah, why not? What imaging package do I need? All right? You used to fire wildfires an example Do I just have one for wildfires and another one for mudslides and another one for whatever? Are they software to fund because money and like storage? Generally speaking these things don't just like you don't just put it on a shelf and Blow it off and stick it on a rocket. Maybe maybe I'm just not That's that's what they do with with firefighting planes A plane is not a rocket or a space payload But then okay, okay great So then why wouldn't I just use a firefighting plane to do the exact same thing for a fraction of the money? I'm just okay. This is a whole wait. No, no. No, this is post show This is we're going into this in member show because clearly I'm the only one who thinks this is nuts I want you all to sell me on this because I don't buy it and if you are a member So the things we're going to talk about in post show are this we're going to continue this conversation because I don't buy it We're going to also going to get into ryan's favorite sci-fi We're not forgetting that I took a note to to ask ryan about his favorite sci-fi We're going to lose data. Wait, where is he? He's going to he's over here. So we're going to lose data for post show So we're only going to have to well data how much you really have to go, right? I do. Okay, great. So we're going to lose data. So I got you data If you are a member, uh, you are free to join us in post show Becoming a member is super easy head on over to youtube.com Slash tmro slash join and any different form of membership will get you access to the show It also does cool things like get your name in the show And then you get to continue this conversation and you help the show happen Week after week month after month year after year. I forget what orbit we're in But this has been going on for 15 or 16 years at this point. It's it's pretty fantastic And uh, the post shows are a lot of fun because they're usually well, they're usually fun or they're terribly boring I don't know. Uh, but there's some they're usually they get unhinged sometimes Like we go into whatever topics we want to and you can ask whatever questions you want to Yeah, if you really want to nerd it up, this is the place to go So again youtube.com slash tmro slash join I'd like to thank all of you for joining us this week. If this has oh full screen data We have we are full on data No, no, no, no, no, let's close data. Take us away close the show I pushed the wrong button. I know but I want you to close the show now Thanks for watching everybody. Oh, we'll see you. Oh, we'll see you not next week. Yeah, that's correct We'll see you in two weeks every like most of us aren't available. So we'll see you in two weeks I'm gonna be on a mountain. Yeah, I'm gonna be on playing Join them join the member show. This is the long minnesota. Goodbye is what this is