 Okay, so to begin could you please state your full name Steven Lucas and where were you born in Ottawa and What did your parents do when you were a child? my father worked as a research scientist for energy minds and resources and mother look after my Brothers and sisters and I and and I didn't sort of not involve her work at home. Okay, and use a child What were your interests or pastimes? I? Loved sports played hockey and pick up football and baseball learned ski and and That passions continued. Okay, and I would actually note that I Also loved hiking and the outdoors are just something I did in particular with my father and brother and that was One of the things that led me to a career in geology. Okay, and at school where they're Talks you excel that or that you preferred I Was one of those students who was pretty much interested in everything and had the great fortune to have Some interesting teachers along the way including in geology in high school Which was kind of okay, so you did you kind of discovered a love for geology already in high school. Yeah with So you did have geology classes Yeah, it it was part of the geography department at school, but it was So did you know already from high school? You wanted to go into geology? afterwards I'd say Yeah, well, I'd say yes short story. My father was a medallor just so He now and I brought rocks home and now and then we looked at rocks and went out hiking So there was that kind of early connection I Was interested by taking the scholarship course in high school father was also an engineer and and kind of the rigor in terms of math and science that Underpins engineering was was of interest to me. I'd have to say though at the end of high school. I was equally excited by English literature and history and then make the call a little bit more on kind of where the most evident career path was Okay, so what did What did you decide to do where'd you go to university and then what? so I After high school went to Queens University and took geological engineering having kind of a strong interest in both engineering and geology great experience By the end of it, I had spent some time working the summer for mineral exploration companies and then discovered had a great opportunity to work with the Geological Survey of Canada which kind of pushed me towards a research career And then went off and did a PhD in the United States at Brown University Then what what was the thesis sir? my focus was on structural geology and tectonics and in particular a Work that I was doing on a project with the Geological Survey up the northern most Quebec Looking at a two billion billion year old mountain belt. Okay, yeah so You have had a pretty pretty amazing career many Different positions throughout this career. So just to begin this in this section. Maybe you can kind of quickly Run through your your career thus far and and from there will will go at it with more detail Sure, my career has taken a course that I had not anticipated at the time I went to university or even even graduated or low to some degree My advisor to my PhD had predicted I would be able to research within 10 years Of course decried, but so I spent over the first 10 years my career as a research scientist and then a manager of research programs in scientific teams and the Geological Survey loved it Became more aware of government policy and decision-making at the time of the creation of Nunavut in The run up to then becoming a territory in 1999 And around that time I had an opportunity to move into a policy job in the same part of the Government that the Geological Survey was in a long story short I Really loved it and moved on to work in areas supporting cabinet ministers more directly in In terms of science policy The impact of natural resources on different regions of the country and the involvement of Aboriginal Canadians I Had a chance to go to health Canada and end up working In a job in the food and drug regulatory branch, which was an extraordinary different experience And they're really dealing with day-to-day issues of those from single products Canadians need to combat illness ensuring that there's safe food and Working to ensure more timely of approvals of safe and effective drugs with Canadians And then I went back to natural resources Canada in a couple different rules one for the minerals and metals sector as the system deputy minister and then one Looking at policy for the department as a whole working directly with the minister on areas such as Climate change and clean energy energy efficiency, which is very important for Governments and indeed the world Then I came over to privy council office to be responsible for economic policy across all of government And one of the super interesting things I had a chance to do there was be directly involved in the final year and a half of negotiations for the comprehensive economic and for agreement with your Which took me very far afield from my work in that in geology, but I think a great Something great important for our country and then finally I Was asked to step into my current role as deputy secretary For plans consultations and intergovernmental affairs, which basically means supporting the prime minister in the operation of cabinet and cabinet decision-making supporting the prime minister on budgetary fiscal policy and Acting as his deputy minister for intergovernmental affairs working with the provinces and territories Including since November being was also for the planning and delivery of two first ministers conferences One works this year one in auto in Never a dull moment never don't wow Now if we go all the way back to to when you started out in geology with the Geological Survey of Canada Now you did some work there, and I heard of some some work that that was I guess mapping out of certain regions of Canada So so according to you, what would you consider to be your most? Important work or work worth mentioning while at the Geological Survey of Canada I'd say I was I had the great fortune to work with the team of scientists there When I was in Geological Survey of Canada, I had the great fortune to work in a team focused on understanding how The Canadian Shield evolved and indeed very old rocks Came to be formed in the way we find them today Going back to about two billion years ago when I said the Geological Survey of Canada I had the great fortune of working on a team that was your really leading edge work here in Canada and really globally leading edge work on understanding how Plate Technics worked in the Percambian period During which Canadian Shield was formed and I'd say we made a couple really fundamental discoveries the first of their kind in the world One of which in an area where I did my PhD Work working with the Geological Survey of Canada scientists called Marks and Dollars We discovered the old associate crust on earth approximately two billion years old that was sitting up on top of The continent in northern most Quebec Work that we did from there has shown that virtually all the attributes of Continental margin and its collision with another continent can be found there The work continues today, but it was really groundbreaking work and an exciting time to be Walking on an area that had never been traversed by foot before in terms of geological mapping and discovering these things for the first time I then worked with a team of scientists from across Canada Geological Survey of Canada Provincial colleagues from Manitoba, Saskatchewan and University researchers in in Canada and internationally And there we look at the same concepts in the area around Flint, Florence, Mill Lake, Manitoba And we're able to demonstrate another type of ancient plate margin That not only gave rise to the world-class order closets there But you need geology and we're able to apply some of the techniques used in Oil and gas exploration seismic techniques to image the deep parts of the continental crust And show that they had structural attributes similar to those that are found in active plate margins Or much younger plate margins. So here the rocks were around 1800 million years old And it was discovered and published in Nature in 1993 That program that helped support it with their probe was really a groundbreaking program for geology in Canada and and I think led to my passion for synthesizing Aspects of that geology which can be displayed in geological maps But also through some work that we really drove in the GFC in those days bringing it together and integrated digital databases using Geographic information systems, which is now the way Scientists work across the world dealing with geological information Thank you You then moved on to NRKAN, a non-statement, or was that after that? Or sort of NRKAN moved on to encompass the geological survey. Yes, true The name of the department changed and I changed from a scientific role to a policy role Okay, and you became a director Yeah, a policy director and was responsible for helping to plan the future programs of the geological survey and one of the neat things that we did was work with scientists from across the country more in a grassroots effort to thinking about how The intellectual capital of resources of the GFC could be applied not only to understand the earth but in Canada and the oceans ocean bottom, but as well How it can contribute to society and I was inspired through this work by the chief scientist in the GFC at the time, Jim Franklin And I think we did some exciting things in really ensuring that From policy and economic and social environmental perspectives the programs were relevant and targeted to Advanced scientific knowledge and help contribute to the betterment of our country And it would contribute could it be seen to contribute to Many industries like you had mentioned gas and oil for example would would now the inclusion of the Geological survey with NRKAN help to perhaps share that kind of information and technology In between industries sure. I think one of the great things that happened in that period from the late 90s Or from the 1990s when we started this and into the 2000s was the convergence of kind of an increasing number of insights into Not just the surface geology, but the subsurface geology and the geophysical attributes of walks which have been studied for many years but intersecting and converging with Digital technology and the internet which really allows you to Don't integrate the information using geographic information systems and make it freely or broadly available through through the internet or optical Maybe like CDs and this I think has led to breakthroughs and how people can use the information and add more value to it which not only leads to Better ability to pinpoint potential or deposits or gas deposits, but other societal uses for geologic information from building infrastructure such as roads or finding Materials for in your carving in the other game. Okay, and yeah, you just mentioned earlier that you had done work With not with the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, but you were director partly of Aboriginal Affairs for NRKAN, right? so in In that role in in the early 2000s It's you We were looking at better enabling The connection between the mining and energy industries and forest industry With Aboriginal Canadians living in the communities recognizing that the proximity of those communities in remote and northern parts of the country to areas of mineral or Well, that's the forest potential was was great opportunity in and so it was in part focused on Entering that mining companies were aware of The importance of consulting with indigenous Canadians About building the capacity to Participate in economic opportunities associated with that is and so great things happen during that period in Northwest territories with the diamond lines and commitments they made to to training People in the indigenous communities near those lines as well supporting the dialogue on aspects ensuring that all Canadians and particularly Indigenous Canadians can benefit from the world by mining other resources at all and Throw your career. Do you think that has changed for the for the better? And what do you think the situation is today? So certainly through the course in my career, I think we've seen Significant advances both in terms of Recognition and and and respect of indigenous Canadians Their rights In terms of their engaging them meaningfully and consulting them in regard to development and Supporting their participation in economic opportunities associated with it That said, there's still a long way to go in terms of reconciliation in terms of Fully enabling their participation and in terms of giving effect to their rights under the Constitution and Completing treaty and other land claim agreements to enable them to participate as partners Now if we switch more to them This kind of topic in terms of social issues or social questions one being there the question and ask women and We can you can look more at your your natural resource background But throughout that portion of your career how present or absent were women and did that change or has it changed since? We have seen I think across engineering and science fields and forgive me in the Resource sectors increased involvement of women in a variety of occupations from CEO to to heavy machine operators or for Engineers Again, it's been positive progress directionally, but there's still a long way to go And there have been leaders both women and men who have supported this effort over Over the past several decades in groups like CIM and the prospectus association have made this an area Trying to raise public awareness and encourage more Posal women to be interested in careers in in the sciences and engineering and in particular Gearscience mining networks and other related careers and Now do you believe there's a disconnect between the mining world and the general public I Think the short story is yes people have iPhones and iPads and blackberries and all of these devices that contain Both metals like nickel and copper, but also really unique Rare earth elements and other metals that come from somewhere They come from the earth and they come from mining and I think there's a huge disconnect between consumer products people use and Cherish and and where they come from and I know it's one of the industry has been working to try and make that connection because absent ability And support for developing these resources in Canada, which contributes to wealth and jobs and prosperity here Or in other parts of the world working in companies and other companies work We're not gonna have those products and Another the tragic. There's other Minerals and metals for example that contribute to people's health such as zinc and Adds an ability to develop your resources and it's sustainable and socially response of the web We're not gonna be able to enjoy the lifestyle So do you think now that there is more of a movement towards sustainability and there's there for the past 10 20 years There's been a lot more The mining industry involved to in their stakeholders Do you think that has helped the disconnect do you think that as an has involved People who weren't necessarily involved in the mining industry or do you think it had also? It has also changed the opinion or minds of a lot of people who weren't necessarily For the mining industry or didn't didn't paint it in a very bright light I Think it's helping but as I said, I think there's more to do I think it you know The general public is either benign neglecting just having necessarily thought about where metals come from and or I mean there have been episodes both in Canada and international where that have caused a bad name for the industry And it does take ongoing effort to to really ensure that Sustainable performance both in terms of how the metals are developed or contributions to communities Are not only undertaken and high standards are held but that There's awareness of it and one of the things I did when I was In the minerals and metals sector that are can as we work with problems in territories To address part of that perception gap by working to develop a set of metrics that define expectations In in in ball or at this societal level for the economic and environmental and social performance industry and published An ongoing cycle of work hard against that in terms of how the industry's performed and it was something we had great support from my association prospectors developers association others for because they recognize the importance of that reporting of progress and demonstrating the commitment of Sustainability and because it became more transparent with this. I'm assuming our goals. Yeah, exactly did some companies in the mining and allergy industry Feel more inclined to clean their act up if it wasn't or to try even harder think it was an effort that Was really driven through the mining association. Can I say in particular from their effort on towards sustainable mining? People would go and kill me about horizontal and others In the money situation Canada executive and companies help crime because they saw that the incredible importance Now you had mentioned part of this work was done when you were assistant deputy minister at and I can of the minerals and metals sector It's a mouthful and So are there any other major projects or initiatives? that that are worth mentioning during during your time there because you work particularly on innovation and Green mining but also on corporate social responsibility, which is very trending trending theme in the mining During that period We In my respect roles and responsibilities There we we spoke to many people in government, but most importantly to people in the industry communities and provinces and territories across the country and recognized And I'd say hold a common view that many of the issues facing the industry were Issues above ground that actually didn't have to do with the quality of the resource or the ability to extract it but more about the trust that the public and communities had in their work and Their ability to not only need the environmental standards of today but to anticipate the environment Environmental standards of tomorrow and to find yet more innovative and technology different ways to extract the resource And so I think that led to a group of initiatives that we worked on touched on money sector performance reporting in terms of that transparent commitment to Reporting on how the industry is doing against benchmarking from environmental social and economic perspectives Focus on working with Aboriginal communities and organizations and understanding What mining was the opportunities that provided but also the obligations on governments and industry in terms of you need to engage in the consulting and so It things could proceed in in partnership and that would benefit those communities as well as industry We focused on innovation and worked with Industry stakeholders and other partners including CIM to develop any mining innovation council, which has been a great coalition to bring together a focus on solving problems through technology and innovative practices and processes To better prove not only economic performance but environmental performance of the industry and address issues such as talent particularly in research and engineering And the green mining focus was really one that anticipated and built on work looking at improving environmental performance, but against a vision that The industry could move towards a zero waste objective It's an aspirational goal about one role with driving through innovation and and we've seen remarkable breakthroughs and abilities to develop Resources that are hard to get at And then and to minimize environmental footprint. So That will continue to and because of the significance the Canadian industry abroad We worked with our Department of Foreign Affairs and other partners international development agency And international partners to look at how to strengthen corporate response social responsibility in terms of working abroad So that they can benefit the communities in which they're working to help resolve conflicts over the development of resources And to help build the capacity of developing countries to be able to Sustainable benefit from those resources and protect the environment. Yes, because Can't forget it is as much an international business as it is a Canadian business. Absolutely Now I throw your whole career Was there a project or a point in time? Where you look back and you say that was the most challenging thing I've ever done professionally Start to put my finger on any one piece I'll note just a couple experiences when Colleagues of the Geological Survey of Canada night and this is going back to the PhD work We're dropped off in the sound of the plane taking off in the helicopter leaving disappeared and you sat on this broad expanse of thunder that had never been mapped before and you knew you would have days ahead of you were In the matter what the weather was review hiking 20 25 miles a day to map the geology and come back and piece it together before we moved another 50 kilometers one way or another to Set up another camp and I found out our traverses so The level of Physical exertion and planning required to undertake that The very small team was extraordinary, but the payoff was huge. So that's when we discovered the oldest social unit crossed on And demonstrated that it had been pushed up the top of the continent At the opposite end of the spectrum I'm supporting the Prime Minister and you serve international trade in The down-to-the-wire negotiations with the European Union on on the trade agreement On key interests of Canada in that agricultural products to intellectual property and infrastructure was and it's our near experience, but but one that I've brought together all of government and came down to really tough negotiations that I think were well-worsened and What huge payoff Now the next question is a is a mouthful and fearful, so I wouldn't know isn't a really great answer Oh, I I assume it can be it was probably very challenging so Now this one's a it's a mouthful and a near for for you, but there's no wrong answer and that's in your opinion Are there any events? People inventions contributions disasters the list goes on anything really that must be mentioned when discussing the history of the natural resources in Canada So it could be one person you think had an immense impact in the mining industry or in the geological industry Or it could be a specific disaster that changed makes forever for better for worse Anything an invention an initiative No wrong answer. Yeah, I'm sure Why don't we go on to do some other questions and we may do that one again about Most difficult thing later, but what are you some other questions come back? Sure. Sure Yeah, well we can we can finish soon. Let me just do a quick time check for you. Yeah So I'll just re-ask the question in your opinion. Are there any events with people inventions contributions? Disasters the list goes on that must be mentioned when discussing the history of the natural resources in Canada and why I Think to my mind, there's no one single person or event that stand out the history natural resources in Canada is really In many ways similar to the history of Canada and it's people who have gone out beyond the edge of the map Have charted a course have found new ways of traversing the rapids are crossing the mountains to be able to map Do the work to find and develop resources develop the technology to do it There's been many exceptional discoveries along the way We knew about the oil sense the oil and in the sand and wood no matter for for a century or more Original Cadians in that area told the early explorers about it But it took extraordinary ingenuity and a focused effort with government and industry and university partners to figure out how to extracted and extracted in a way that Minimizes the impact on the environment and that technological drive still continues in a similar way was Canadian technology that Figured out how to fracture rocks and extract oil and gas from tight formations so called cracking process that was Really move forward by the Americans, but Canadians were closely involved in the technology and then in terms of personal heroes and in the In the geological survey it goes back to Sir William Logan and the onset of the geological survey 1842 before King Federation and through to modern greats like Ray Price who Really understood how The Rocky Mountains were were formed and then later led the geological survey or mentors of mine Paul Hoffman and Mark Stonge who really pioneered the work and continued to on How play kickbox work in the pre-cambion of our country and and how you can see The very similar structures in active on belt such as it who lives today Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect now a few closing questions and the first one being Can be challenging, but what are you proudest of professionally? That's why because it could be Yeah, yeah, well, I used to ask what's Impressive in life and the number one answer was my kids or my family and then I'd ask the second part which was professionally So we'll just go usually. It's obvious. So I go to straight to what are you proudest of professionally? So I think I'd say three things one was participating in the discovery of things never found before the plate tectonics happening in the pre-cambion through What we're able to observe on the surface in the rocks northern Quebec or deep in the nearest crust in the flint lawn It's not like you're in the moment The second thing I'd say is having had a ability to make a contribution To better our country and Canadians through my work in policy and supporting the government ensuring that teams of access to safe drugs and healthy foods Or in helping to support the development of new trade agreements that will truly create great economic opportunities for Canadians And the third one I'd say and I'm probably the most important is having had a chance To hire and support people in organizations that I've led Who themselves have made phenomenal contributions and are really the strength of the public service In Canada, which which is committed Canadians of all ages across our country and be able to lead organizations and Support people to bring up the best and make those contributions to make a country better places probably For me the most important contribution I can make in my career most rewarding Now last question and maybe I'll ask it twice sure if you were Sending in front of someone much younger like a student for example What would be the one piece of advice a life lesson you could give them about their future? And then I'll ask more specifically about the natural resource of the mining sure so So just at a more general level. I think I'd say two things one Take advantage of every opportunity You find because where you sit now is not where you're going to end and By doing that you will discover unexpected Things you'll be challenged you'll learn and and you make contributions Beyond that which you could possibly imagine and really that's what took me from being a geologist and research scientist To playing a role where extraordinary privilege to work with the Prime Minister the head of the public service of Canada the Court of the Preview Council and many great colleagues here at the Preview Council office in Helping the government implement its agenda Second thing I'd say is for us as individuals and leaders and no matter what Field of work and we find ourselves being Humble knowing yourself and being able to help support others To bring out their best and contribute is It's a learned skill, but it's a fundamentally important skill and critical about leadership Which is what we should all fight Not only help our careers, but help our organizations in our country Now the same question, but what if there was a student thinking of going into mining or not the natural resources? What would be the piece of advice or life lesson you would give them? I People going into resources I would say That many of the challenges you will encounter in many of the opportunities of things to work on are going to be in areas outside of Perhaps your technical or scientific background You will deal with Aboriginal communities you will work with civil society partners you will have opportunities to Marry up environment environmental technology With those technologies that help Company in the bottom line So I think you need to have a broad view from the economic social and environmental perspectives and to look beyond the Confines of your discipline or your area of specialization To recognize that where the industry has to go is one that's socially responsible and socially relevant Well, thank you. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Well, thank you very much